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Speaker 1: We got it at We did get it at Moko.

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Speaker 1: I think my note about it was we got poke

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Speaker 1: again because we are monsters. Hello, and I'll come to

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Speaker 1: save our production of I Heart Radio and Stuff Media.

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Speaker 1: I'm Annies and I'm Lauren foc Obamb And today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about poke Yes, the craving is already setting in.

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Speaker 1: It's been there pretty much since we got back from Hawaii, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and it just occasionally rears its beautiful, delicious head and

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Speaker 1: I must go, Yeah, there's just not that many. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about that later. It's hard to find

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Speaker 1: good poke a. It really is, especially outside of Yeah, Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: I feel very confident when I say we ate more

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Speaker 1: poke a than anything else. When we were in Hawaii

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Speaker 1: at least once a day, I think, I think, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well most restaurants serve it. And so we saw it

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Speaker 1: and we were like, well, we're ordering that right. We

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Speaker 1: we could sense in the back of our heads we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to find it when we got back. Um,

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Speaker 1: we we went to a poke a battle, which we've

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Speaker 1: mentioned a couple of times. More on that later, and

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Speaker 1: it is probably the thing I miss the most. It's

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Speaker 1: close with like the weather into general five but fresh

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Speaker 1: access to fresh seafood like everywhere everywhere, and we had

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Speaker 1: it everywhere. We got some at food Land, which is

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Speaker 1: a beloved grocery chain. Um, we got some to take

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Speaker 1: up with us that that ten thousand foot drive up

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Speaker 1: a volcano that we've mentioned. We got some at nice

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Speaker 1: restaurants and everything in between that, and just to clarify

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Speaker 1: at food Land, at least in my my mainlander mind,

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Speaker 1: it was a poke a version of the pub sub.

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Speaker 1: What's the pub sub? Public sub? Oh? Okay, sure. I

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Speaker 1: was about to have so much fun explaining that it's

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Speaker 1: essentially a deli counter but with poke A just giant

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Speaker 1: trays of poke and they just dish it out by

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Speaker 1: the pound and give it to you and then you

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Speaker 1: have poke. A Yeah, that's wonderful. One of food land

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Speaker 1: slogans is Hawaii's Home for Poke. Appropriate. Um. Anyway, the

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Speaker 1: poke that my brain keeps going back to is the

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Speaker 1: first one we had at this like schmancy beach side

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Speaker 1: hotel restaurant in Waikiki, like super touristy. But the sun

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Speaker 1: was setting over the ocean and I had this live

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Speaker 1: band and I ate this little cube of fish and

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Speaker 1: it was like that moment in Wizard of Oz where

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Speaker 1: like the world goes into color. It's like, oh, like

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Speaker 1: this is what Tunic can be. But yeah, it was everywhere.

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Speaker 1: We talked about it with super producers Dylan and Andrew

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Speaker 1: when we got back. So when people ask me how

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Speaker 1: my Hawaii trip went, I'm like, Okay, imagine this. You're

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Speaker 1: in a mall, a giant mall, and in this giant

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Speaker 1: mall there is a giant grocery store in the basement,

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Speaker 1: and it's like a nice grocery store, and then there's

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Speaker 1: like a thousand people all lining up because four or

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Speaker 1: five best chefs on the island are giving away raw fish.

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Speaker 1: M hm. It was just madness and the best way possible. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we attended the second annual poke A Battle, seven chefs

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Speaker 1: battling it out with their takes on poke A on

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Speaker 1: a Saturday in a food land. People voted on their

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Speaker 1: favorite and the winner received five thousand dollars to donate

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Speaker 1: to the Hawaii charity of their choice. And there was

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Speaker 1: free beer and spirits the little samples around. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: while we were there, in the midst of all of

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Speaker 1: this chaos, we got to interview Denise and Roy Yamaguchi,

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Speaker 1: and they are one of the many power couples in

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Speaker 1: Hua Who's culinary scene. Um. Denise is the CEO of

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Speaker 1: the Hawaiian and Wine Festival, among many other things, and

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Speaker 1: Roy was one of the contestants. He's a chef and

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Speaker 1: restaurant tour and one of the founders of the Hawaii

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Speaker 1: Regional Cuisine movement, which we talked about in our intro episode. So, um,

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Speaker 1: this is completely wild. How did this happen? I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure why how it happened or why it happened, but

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Speaker 1: it's a good thing that had happened. Are you having

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Speaker 1: a good time? Had a great time? You know, Oka

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Speaker 1: is extremely popular in Hawaii, and everybody has their own

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Speaker 1: version of making folk so you know, naturally you see

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Speaker 1: a lot of people come here. They enjoy it. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're they're probably raiding our polkey against the polkey that

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Speaker 1: they make. So that's what that's a good thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: is having a bit of a moment on the mainland.

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Speaker 1: I remember a couple of years ago when seemingly, all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, my friends were ordering poke A bowls

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Speaker 1: from New poke A restaurants in Atlanta, Like I have

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Speaker 1: a lot of friends who don't live in Atlanta and

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Speaker 1: come and stay with me whenever they're in Atlanta, and

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Speaker 1: they always want to get the food that they can't

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Speaker 1: find wherever they're from. And they were telling me about

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Speaker 1: polk and I was kind of baffled. It was new

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Speaker 1: to me. Um. But I suppose that brings us to

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Speaker 1: our question, Okay, what is it? Well? Poku is a

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Speaker 1: sort of a fresh chopped seafood salad um served cooled

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Speaker 1: room temperature, most often as a side dish or appetizer.

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Speaker 1: Poka literally means cut cross wise into pieces, so you're

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Speaker 1: talking about yeah, chunks and stuff. The most common protein

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Speaker 1: these days is tuna, specifically in Hawaii, local tunas like

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Speaker 1: the aku or skip jack tuna or the ahi or

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Speaker 1: yellow fin tuna. Other seafoods show up to like octopus

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Speaker 1: s though, and so yeah, that protein, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: will be seasoned with a slightly salty marinade. Soy sauce

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Speaker 1: often show you which is as soy plus wheat. Soy

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Speaker 1: sauce plus sesame oil is perhaps the most traditional as

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Speaker 1: of the late twentieth century. It's often mixed with chopped

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Speaker 1: sweet maue, onions and fresh limu or ogo, which are

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Speaker 1: seaweeds and then garnished with sprinkles of sliced green onions

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Speaker 1: and sesame seeds or maybe dried seaweed, especially when the

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Speaker 1: tuna is fresh, like you know, caught less than three

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Speaker 1: days ago, never frozen. The simple mix of ingredients is transcendent,

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Speaker 1: like the fish is tender and light and melty and

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Speaker 1: set off by this kick of salt and buttery richness

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Speaker 1: from the sesame with a crunch and brine from the

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Speaker 1: onions and the seaweeds. It's so strong and yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is a bit of a trend right now here on

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Speaker 1: the mainland, and it has been for the past few years.

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Speaker 1: You can find poke of varying quality and likeness to

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian poke all across the US. It's usually eaten as

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Speaker 1: a poke bowl or poque made heartier with a bowl

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Speaker 1: of rice or greens as its base and all kinds

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Speaker 1: of salads and toppings incorporated. Yeah, I mean polk is

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Speaker 1: usually served in bowls to be to be clear, but

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Speaker 1: this is a separate thing, more like a like a

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Speaker 1: burrito bowl in concept um. One of these joints is

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Speaker 1: within walking distance of my house, and they are yes,

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Speaker 1: different than the Hawaiian styles. Um. The base might be

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Speaker 1: wider brown rice or zucchini noodles or cauliflower rice or

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Speaker 1: tortilla chips um. The proteins tuna, salmon, shrimp, octopus, chicken, tofu.

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Speaker 1: The toppings heck, avocado, tobiko or missago, which are small fish, row, pineapple, mango, kale, corn, quinua,

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Speaker 1: hot pepper, kimchi, cucumber, carrots, radishes, at mam a cilantro, pickle, ginger,

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Speaker 1: serrat a sauce, sweet chili sauce ranch. Oh yes, no,

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Speaker 1: that's the scariest thing I've heard in many days, and

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Speaker 1: I've been watching just non stuff horror movies. It's it's

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Speaker 1: one little haunch. Yeah, but it is a phenomenon. According

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Speaker 1: to yelp, there were sixty seven poke restaurants on the

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Speaker 1: mainland and seven there were one thousand, eight hundred and

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Speaker 1: eleven in alone. Google searches for poke bowls went up

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Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty five as compared to the year before.

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Speaker 1: Grub Hubs saw an increase of six hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: three in orders of poke across the United States. Between

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Speaker 1: te try are so interesting. You can find poke kits

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Speaker 1: and grocery stores you can get delivered. You can find

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Speaker 1: it on the menus of big chains with zero Hawaiian ties,

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Speaker 1: like Red Lobster or the Cheesecake Factory. One of the

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Speaker 1: biggest and fastest growing poke chains in the country, pok Works,

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Speaker 1: makes an annual twelve million dollars at nineteen locations. International

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Speaker 1: poke a Day is September. There are poke shops in

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Speaker 1: Mexico and Brazil, the UK, Russia, South Africa, Hong Kong, Japan,

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Speaker 1: Dubai in Australia, among other places. Probably I most definitely

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Speaker 1: I would. I would go out on a limb and

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Speaker 1: say that now, poke a in Hawaii is different, as

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Speaker 1: we've said, aside from in general of fresher, higher quality fish.

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Speaker 1: One it's marinated, even if only for a little bit too.

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Speaker 1: Generally there are fewer toppings, allowing for the ingredients to shine.

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Speaker 1: On the mainland, I saw a lot of comparisons to

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Speaker 1: a frozen yogurt shop in terms of toppings. That reminds

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Speaker 1: me of our back when we have videos, and we

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Speaker 1: hope we did a whole bit about this in our

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Speaker 1: yogurt episode, about the ridiculous number of poppings we did.

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Speaker 1: I got like every topping and I ate it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you regretted your decisions? I did, and I very

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Speaker 1: rarely regret my food decisions, but I regretted that one.

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Speaker 1: Before we left for our trip, we spoke with our

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Speaker 1: friend Louisa, who is from Hawaii but now lives in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: and she was of the very clear opinion that she's

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Speaker 1: extremely disappointed with the poke a options here. There are

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Speaker 1: a couple of reasons poke a has taken off on

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Speaker 1: the mainland other than it's delicious. First, it's relatively easy

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Speaker 1: to make and doesn't require investment in a range of

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Speaker 1: ventilation system or a grease trap. That also helps keep

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Speaker 1: the price point fairly low. Secondly, um, easy to brand,

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Speaker 1: is healthy, and that's something consumers are often looking for

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Speaker 1: these days. Yeah, let's talk nutrition for just a second. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the healthfulness of a poke a dish depends on what

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Speaker 1: you put in it, but the basics like raw fish

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Speaker 1: and a salty dressing maybe some veg are excellent choices,

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Speaker 1: and small doses like tuna is about a quarter high

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Speaker 1: quality protein by weight. Um, it's relatively low and fat.

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Speaker 1: What's in there is mostly good fats and it has

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Speaker 1: just a terrific smattering of vitamins and minerals, especially in

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Speaker 1: smallest amounts as an app or an ingredient in a

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Speaker 1: bowl with like vege and hole grains. It's nutritionally great.

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Speaker 1: The potential for pollutants like mercury and even plastics and

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Speaker 1: large fish like tuna, that's a whole other episode bonus.

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Speaker 1: Third and fourth reasons Pok has taken off on the mainland, uh.

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Speaker 1: It captures some of our fast casual infatuation and our

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Speaker 1: infatuation with Hawaii. Visitors at the islands are at an

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Speaker 1: all time high, very list heavy episode, this one in

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Speaker 1: our age of Instagram herbal foods. It's colorful and pretty.

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Speaker 1: All of this has spurned a whole argument about cultural

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Speaker 1: appropriation and when does a dish stop being that dish.

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Speaker 1: Some mainland restaurants don't even spell pok correctly um typically

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Speaker 1: not out of their ignorance, but out of the perceived

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Speaker 1: ignorance of the consumer when it comes to pronouncing Hawaiian words,

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Speaker 1: which is not great. Yeah, No, it's another way of

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Speaker 1: erasing the Hawaiian heritage of this deeply regional dish, a

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Speaker 1: staple even I saw Pokey described as a Hawaiian staple

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Speaker 1: in several places. Local chefs like Mark and Gucci have

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Speaker 1: spoken out about this. He's the chef and owner of

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Speaker 1: the Pilli Group, which does a locally minded catering and

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Speaker 1: events plus food and environmental education. He told the Washington

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Speaker 1: Post quote our food, that is our sense of place.

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Speaker 1: You can mimic it, but you can't recreate the soul

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Speaker 1: of it. There's no amount of instagramming or googling that

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Speaker 1: will show you your soul. That's what you can taste.

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Speaker 1: He also called the accent over the e and poke

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Speaker 1: a that some chains in the mainland do equivalent to

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Speaker 1: cultural slander. Yes, uh back in just for one example,

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Speaker 1: there was a chain in Chicago called Aloha Poke Company,

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Speaker 1: the owners of which are not from Hawaii. Um that

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Speaker 1: was sending cease and desists to other restaurants that used

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Speaker 1: the words aloha and poke a in conjunction. So like

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Speaker 1: the concept of ioha is a sharing of the breath

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Speaker 1: of life. So taking that word and trying to like

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Speaker 1: own it, Yeah, that's not good. No. No, I read

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Speaker 1: a lot of interesting back and forth about this because

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Speaker 1: some restaurants here are like we never were trying to

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Speaker 1: be I get the I get why some people from

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Speaker 1: Hawaii would have a little bit of anxiety about that.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, absolutely. I mean especially we've stolen quite a

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Speaker 1: number of things from the people who lived there and

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Speaker 1: put our own weird mark on them and resold them.

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Speaker 1: And that's not pleasant to see done to your culture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: especially without like the context or at least an understanding

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Speaker 1: of what it means, without some kind of respect. Respect.

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Speaker 1: That's a good word, okay, And speaking of all of this,

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Speaker 1: we want to talk about history of poku. But first

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break for word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 1: The history of poke a goes way back, all the

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Speaker 1: way back to the ancient Polynesians, from the Hawaiian Islands

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Speaker 1: to New Zealand. At the time, it was a dish

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Speaker 1: of reef fish, seaweed, sea salt, and a condiment called penamona.

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Speaker 1: Just candle nuts are cocui nuts roasted, crushed and salted.

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Speaker 1: Depend on the type of fish, you might not chop it,

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Speaker 1: but lomi it, pull a, massage it with salt, and

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Speaker 1: then season it. The salts both added flavor and helped

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Speaker 1: preserve the nuts and raw fish. It made sense. You

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Speaker 1: had your fresh catch, you seasoned it with whatever you

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Speaker 1: had on hand, and then you ate it. Some historians,

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Speaker 1: and not even historians, but chefs in the know about

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Speaker 1: pok like to differentiate between pre James Cook Poke and

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Speaker 1: post James Cook Okay Okay, pre imposed colonization. Pocay's journey

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Speaker 1: reflects the history of Hawaii post contact. Pacific sailors traded

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian salt for salmon, adding that fish is a potential ingredient.

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Speaker 1: Immigrants from China brought with them sesame oil and soy

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Speaker 1: sauce and onions um. The Japanese brought show you and

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Speaker 1: their own traditions of eating raw fish. Also they're they're

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Speaker 1: traditions of bowls of stuff, dun buri um or trashy dawn,

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Speaker 1: both of which involved chopped protein with a seasoning and rice.

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Speaker 1: Maui onions developed after researchers in Texas created the sweet

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Speaker 1: granex strain in the nineteen fifties, and farming families on Maui,

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Speaker 1: no longer working on the plantations there, started experimenting with them. Later,

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Speaker 1: the arrival of increasing numbers of Japanese tourists in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies played a major role in shaping Poquet's future,

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Speaker 1: primarily in making tuna that protein of choice. We spoke

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Speaker 1: with Brooks Takanaca, who's the general manager over at the

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Speaker 1: United Fishing Agency which runs the Honolulu Fish Option, which

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Speaker 1: organized is the sale of like up to a hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand pounds of locally caught fish every day. Here's Brooks, Well,

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Speaker 1: hey again, I go back to Hawaii microcosm. A lot

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Speaker 1: of cultures, a lot of ethnicity, a lot of sharing

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Speaker 1: of dishes and stuff. So now you're beginning to understand

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Speaker 1: and appreciate herbs, spices, whatever. Okay, Americans beginning to figure

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Speaker 1: this out. Now it's like Wow, the same product but

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Speaker 1: presented this way or that way. Wow. So now it's

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Speaker 1: like a whole new eating experience. And that's what's happening. Right. So, hey,

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Speaker 1: we knew about this down you have from way back.

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Speaker 1: The world is beginning to understand. The Japanese come here,

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Speaker 1: they don't know about pokey. They love rough fish. They

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Speaker 1: eat the poke and they go nuts. So Hawaii has

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Speaker 1: influenced a lot of people's palates and eating habits and

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Speaker 1: and and appreciation for for food. I think in quality okay,

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Speaker 1: The name didn't come about until maybe the nineteen sixties

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Speaker 1: or seventies, the same time that ahi tuna was becoming

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Speaker 1: more plentiful. Rich pink to red tuna was more pleasing

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Speaker 1: to look at as opposed too many pale, fleshed reef fish,

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Speaker 1: and was generally preferred when it came to flavor. This

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Speaker 1: is around the time that poke a made the leap

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Speaker 1: from home kitchens to grocery stores, which only helped popularize

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Speaker 1: it in the nineteen nineties. One of the chefs behind

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Speaker 1: Hawaii Regional Cuisine, Sam Choi, was key in making poke

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Speaker 1: a mainstream. He called poke the King of Island foods.

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Speaker 1: He told Honolulu Magazine back in about making it with

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Speaker 1: his family when he was a kid. He said, I

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Speaker 1: took a mouthful of it and went wow. Right at

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Speaker 1: that moment, I knew this was my love. Something is

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Speaker 1: natural and pure as taking a fish out of the

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Speaker 1: water creating some magic with it. He was behind one

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Speaker 1: of the states first poke competitions, a Recipe Contest. The

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Speaker 1: contest highlighted all of the creativity and flexibility and possibilities

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Speaker 1: that poke allowed to this day. The competition takes place

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Speaker 1: in March and Yeah, around the same time that the

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Speaker 1: chefs of the HRC movement, we're bringing these play full

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Speaker 1: takes on poke a to their high end restaurants. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: by this time Poke had made its way to the mainland.

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Speaker 1: Experts think that mainland American interests in Hawaiian food is

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Speaker 1: in part connected to three distinct waves of Hawaiians to

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Speaker 1: the mainland. The first wave took place after World War Two,

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Speaker 1: the second after Hawaiian statehood in ninety nine, and the

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Speaker 1: third in the seventies, when rising prices due to tourism

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Speaker 1: and development forced more and more Hawaiians out of the state,

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Speaker 1: first places like California and Nevada and eventually all across

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Speaker 1: the United States. Of course, they became nostalgic for the

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Speaker 1: foods they grew up with, so some of them started

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Speaker 1: opening restaurants and Poke started hitting the mainland. Public consciousness

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Speaker 1: around shops serving the dish multiplied through and just really

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Speaker 1: exploded after that. Um there's an article from Eater from

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Speaker 1: sixteen that was crunching poke shop numbers and concluded that

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Speaker 1: if the trend held, there could be as many as

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Speaker 1: one thousand mainland Poke ops. By one thousands, there's like

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Speaker 1: almost twice that number now, so guess guess, but holy head,

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Speaker 1: I've already the numbers. Part of this jettison doubt partially

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Speaker 1: influenced by mainline interest in tourism. Types of poke around

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Speaker 1: Hawaii these days are essentially whatever you imagine, although again

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Speaker 1: it goes back to how you define poka and also

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Speaker 1: an appreciation understanding of polk as history and context. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of local variations, but they all tend

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Speaker 1: towards simple preparations that highlight the seafood um local clams

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Speaker 1: or oysters, or muscles or marlin or even imported salmon um.

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Speaker 1: The dressings nod to other immigrant populations. You know, a

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Speaker 1: little Chinese ginger here, a little Japanese ume, a sour

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Speaker 1: pickled plum there, maybe a spike of Korean go chi

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Speaker 1: jang or um or kimchi data that American sushi favorite

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Speaker 1: spicy Mayo makes it in there there's poke a made

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Speaker 1: with pepakawla, which is a dish that came out of

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Speaker 1: Hawaii's Mexican cowboy culture melding with their Chinese immigrants. It's

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Speaker 1: a dried beef dish marinated in ginger and garlic and

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Speaker 1: often a soy sauce or rice wine. There's poke a

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Speaker 1: made with a bucalau, which is a Puerto Rican dried

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Speaker 1: salt cod, which again took on some of these other

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Speaker 1: flavors when it got to Hawaii, there's vegetarian beet or

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Speaker 1: mango or himka, and yes, in communities where the costs

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Speaker 1: of living are so ridiculously high, there's poke a on

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Speaker 1: Hawaii made with previously frozen fish to help bring the

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Speaker 1: price down. There's some wilder recipes to A place called

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Speaker 1: The Hub in Honolulu features sweet and savory options like

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Speaker 1: lea heing poke a, a local tangy, sweet dried plum

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Speaker 1: favoring peanut, butter and jelly poke a, and offers toppings

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Speaker 1: like crushed Oreo cookies and Reese's puffs cereal Oh I'm

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Speaker 1: still waiting on the royal cheese racers. Another popular Newish

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Speaker 1: way of enjoying poke a is on nachos, and yes

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Speaker 1: so good, oh gosh, yeah, not necessarily like the nachos,

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Speaker 1: you are envisioning fresh poke a and sauce drizzled over

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Speaker 1: fried wandtan chips. You can also find it in subi

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Speaker 1: form poke and rice deep fried in tacos. Yep, had

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Speaker 1: some delicious into stata form praise beautif food Land once again.

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Speaker 1: We had a bunch of these types of pok a

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Speaker 1: while we were in Hawaii, and we spoke about them

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Speaker 1: when we got back to a studio in Atlanta. Oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, so we had like appetizers, we had more

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Speaker 1: heck and poke a. Yeah, the appetizers. It was the

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Speaker 1: poke nachos that time they had because they had to.

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Speaker 1: They had the regular poke and they had pokey nachos,

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Speaker 1: the poke a cracker, cab crack, yeah, the charred cabbage.

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Speaker 1: These days, there is some speculation that the poke a

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Speaker 1: trend has peaked on the mainland, perhaps because a decent

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Speaker 1: amount of the places that opened did not appreciate what

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Speaker 1: makes poke a wonderful and the quality of the fish.

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Speaker 1: But to talk about that, we have to talk about

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Speaker 1: issues of sustainability, which we'll get into after we get

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Speaker 1: back from one more quick break for a word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsor, Yes, thank you, so sustainability. This goes back

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Speaker 1: to what we were talking about in terms of respect

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Speaker 1: for for pok and the cultures that it comes from,

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Speaker 1: and the sense of scale that you have to consider

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Speaker 1: when you bring a food into an international fast casual

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Speaker 1: restaurant scene. Um Brooks voiced concerns over the rising price

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Speaker 1: of good quality, sustainable fish and the fact that here

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Speaker 1: on the mainland just about all of the raw grade

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Speaker 1: fish that we get are previously frozen, and lots of

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Speaker 1: people don't know that he said I wouldn't feed my

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Speaker 1: family that he did, and all of his ties into

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Speaker 1: how we think about the amazing, delicious resource that is

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Speaker 1: for fish and also what goes into getting it. Here's

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Speaker 1: bricks again. What I'm trying to do is basically get

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Speaker 1: back to an appreciation for the fishermen, because there is

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Speaker 1: their lives. Okay, there are people not unlike yourselves, committed

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Speaker 1: to what you do, what your passion is, and they're

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Speaker 1: good at it. They sacrifice not only their lives, but

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Speaker 1: I mean also the time they spend with their families

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Speaker 1: because they're out or three days and two three weeks

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Speaker 1: at a time and a swordfish guys a month, months

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Speaker 1: and a half at a time. Yeah, And so where

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Speaker 1: is the appreciation for the dedication and the and the

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Speaker 1: passion that these people have. You know, I've I've lost

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Speaker 1: friends and relatives and that's just part of the business.

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Speaker 1: Though right, is it's safer now than it was when

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Speaker 1: you were growing up or when well, I think with

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Speaker 1: technology it's a lot safer, but you're still dealing with

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Speaker 1: mother nature, okay, And and you know out there there's

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Speaker 1: so much unpredictability. I mean, you hear about rogue waves

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Speaker 1: and things like this. My guy see this all the time.

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Speaker 1: Ye perfect storm. That's see. If you've ever been in

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Speaker 1: a situation like that, just the song is just your

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Speaker 1: heart beat. Just hey, you never forget that. And my

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Speaker 1: guys see that all the time. So what they do

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Speaker 1: to bring this fish in here is is very special.

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Speaker 1: And what they have to do to be in compliance

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Speaker 1: with the rules and regulations today is very difficult. And

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Speaker 1: so what's happened is that this industry has changed a

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Speaker 1: lot over time because of sustainability. So you look at

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Speaker 1: you look at the definition of sustainability. The definition of

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Speaker 1: it has changed as well over time. So now you're

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Speaker 1: talking about human rights and everything else as well. And

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Speaker 1: I go back to the fact that here in Hawaii,

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Speaker 1: I mean as far as where we grew up in

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Speaker 1: our our industry, we took pride in what we did

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Speaker 1: and how we how we did it, and what we delivered.

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Speaker 1: Now culture has changed. You have far more diversity, different

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Speaker 1: cultures a part of this whole reality now. So now

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Speaker 1: we've got to teach them. Look, don't just go to

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Speaker 1: catch and kill fish. Alright. Growing up in this industry,

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Speaker 1: one of the things I realize is that, look, this

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Speaker 1: is really a small all the load. Fisheries bring back

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Speaker 1: smaller loads, better quality and go fish more trips a year,

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Speaker 1: probably be a lot of happier, safer, your families are

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Speaker 1: a lot happier. You're probably gonna make more money. But

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Speaker 1: here again you're talking about human element and discipline to

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Speaker 1: the luck they're of relative to business. Because let's not

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Speaker 1: forget this is still a business. So given an element

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Speaker 1: fisher bining, catch more, or prices are cheap, catch more?

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Speaker 1: But what are you doing in an overall perspective, overall reality? Okay, No,

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Speaker 1: one year you're tapping your quota because you've got quotas

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Speaker 1: for big guy. Uh huh. Number two, you're not maybe

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Speaker 1: very much money, so why go catch more anyway, supersaturating

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Speaker 1: the market. Number three, If you look back in history,

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Speaker 1: this is when my grandfather and those guys used to

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00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: dry doctor the boats, so to repair the boat summertime

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00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: because conditions aren't that good. But now you gauge your program,

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00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: your whole business relative to productive months, and overall reality

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00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: is this is the year. How we're going to approach

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00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: it right? The poke a trend has heightened the concerns

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00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: about the health of tuna populations, which are over fished

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00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: in some parts of the world. Since nineteen fifty, the

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00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: population of large fish like tuna has plummeted by However,

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00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: it's certainly not just poke a leading to this decline

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00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: and populations. The Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch programs as

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00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: poke isn't particularly adding to tuna over fishing, though they

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00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: stress that sustainability and sourcing is always important to think

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00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: about when you're ordering fish. Poke can use cuts of

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00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: tuna that might otherwise put a waste, which helps. Many

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00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: poke chains do offer alternatives to over fish tuna and

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00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: farm raised salmon, which a farm ray salmon not always

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00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: being an environmentally friendly choice, though honestly most people still

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00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: order the tuna and the salmon um. These are issues

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00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: with the seafood industry in general. Fish farms can be

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00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: problematic in that, depending on the feed they use and

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00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: their waste management, or lack thereof. They can add like

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00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: significant pollution to local waterways. And the ways that wild fish,

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00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: on the other hand, are caught matter a lot. Large

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00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: scale fishing operations often involve a lot of what's called

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00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: by catch, which is accidentally caught animals that are injured

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00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: or killed in the process. Some shops do go out

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00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: of their way to stock fish from areas with with

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00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: healthy population levels um and fish their lime caught, which

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00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: involves little to know by catch. And there are lots

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00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: of people in the fishing industry who are who are

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00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: passionate about sustainability and and some governments are stepping up

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00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: to help create regulations that respect both the environment and

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00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: the people who are trying to make a living in

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00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: the industry. But it's really incumbent on shops and chefs

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00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 1: to support the fisheries that are providing sustainable fish, and

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00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: on us as consumers to support those shops and chefs.

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00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: As a representative for the Monterey Bay Aquarium, cfood Watch

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00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: told l a Weekly, if a place can't or won't

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00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: tell you whether their seafood is sustainable, consider going someplace else,

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00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: because poke is not a trend in why it's there

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00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: to stay and just so much more than marinated cubed fish. Yes,

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00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: so much more, so much more, And we do we

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00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: have in the works an episode on fishing, specifically fishing industry,

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00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: so look out for that. But in the meantime, this

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00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: brings us to the end of our second episode in

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00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: our Hawaii mini series, and it brings us to asking

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00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: you to email us. Yeah, yeah, let us know what

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00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: your poke experiences are. Yes, where else we should go.

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00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: Let us live vicariously through Oh gosh, please, no amount

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00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: of detail is too weird. Nope. You can contact us

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00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: email at Hello at savor pod dot com. You can

475
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: also find us on social media. We are on Twitter, Instagram,

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00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: and Facebook at savor pod. We do hope to hear

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00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: from you. Thanks to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard,

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00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: and our executive producer Christopher hassy Otis, and our interviewees,

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00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: and to the people who put us in touch with

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00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: those interviewees Michelle McGowan, Rice of the Hawaii Food and

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00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: Wine Festival, Don Takamoto Piva of Put It on My Plate,

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00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: and Joy Goto and Maria Hartfield of the Hawaii Visitors

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00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: and Convention Bureau. Savor is production of I Heart Radio

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00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: and stuff Media. For more podcasts on my heart Radio,

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00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: you can visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks to you

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00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: for listening, and we hope that lots more good things

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00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: are coming your way. We got a bunch of appetizers there.

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00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: We got our first poke the trip, and it would

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00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: not be our last. Oh, certainly he could not. Oh

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00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: my gosh. I think we immediately were like, we need

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00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: to get some more. Yes, and we ordered a second

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00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: round of We had pokey at least once a day,

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00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: I think for the rest of the trip. Yeah, I

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00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: think that's fair to say. Yeah,