WEBVTT - Andrew Green - Part 2 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:05.040 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.160 In Part two of our conversation with Andrew Green, we 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:11.680 discussed as restoration work at Inverness and Oak Hill, a 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.000 bunker less course he's building, and much more. If you 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.159 miss part one, be sure to check it out. And 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:18.479 here's Andrew Green. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.480 The fried egg requires a different technique. 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.280 What you need to do is actually square the face 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.240 so it'll dig down underneath that bad lie and propel 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:33.640 that ball right out onto the green. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.720 Here's the thing. Playing out of a buried lion a 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.320 bunker is completely different than playing out of a nice 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.240 clean lion a greenside bunker. You need to be aggressive 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.239 on any shop, whether it's sitting cleanly for its Frida Egg. Well, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:48.320 we've all faced it. 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.559 The dreaded Friday eggs not to be feared, though it's 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:53.080 actually a pretty easy shot to hit. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.200 There's very few places that have just like been content 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:12.560 with doing nothing well, and some of the best spots 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:14.960 end up being the ones that were broke for a 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.039 really long time because they didn't have any money to 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:17.559 do anything. 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.000 Yeah. 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.840 Philmont in Philadelphia had struggled for a while trying to 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:29.600 figure out how to keep going and they're kind of 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.920 still working through some of the management stuff. But that 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.160 golf course, there was some debate whether it was Flynn 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.679 or who designed it the north especially there, and we 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.400 kind of uncovered it was Willie Park Junior. 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:45.679 But because they didn't do. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.320 A lot along the way, it's so well preserved. You're 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.200 exactly right, it's it's pretty amazing times. 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:53.880 The best thing is when they're broke. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.560 Well yeah, yeah, it's uh. 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:58.480 And look. 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.640 And then you get in circumstances like at oak Hill. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:09.640 The West course wasn't the championship course, right, so not 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.120 a lot got done to it, and those greens are spectacular, 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.360 and I mean, I think the kind of the joke 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:18.960 there is, you know if the West course greens are 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.360 on the East course, I mean, wow, right, you know, 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.600 and that's hopefully you know at some point what we're 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:24.240 going to get to do. 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.680 But yeah, it's got to help that you have like 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.960 that course sitting next to the other one and for 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.560 people so you're working at oak Hill, yeah, because you 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:38.680 can draw off a lot of stuff they did there, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.040 and I imagine there's a lot of common themes on 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:42.959 the same property. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.880 Yeah, and I think we've done that. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:46.520 We took. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.280 It was a good educational tool, right because the members 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.160 innately knew that they liked the West Course and the things. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.600 They couldn't necessarily identify it, but you could walk out 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.080 and you could start talking them through. Okay, well this 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.400 why you probably like this is because of this. You know, 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.519 that's what that hole over there really needs is a 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:11.440 little bit of this flavor. Yeah, it's certainly helped. The 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:14.880 big thing on the West Course is most of the 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.880 fairway bunkers got taken out, but the shapes and the 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:23.600 landforms are still there. But the other cool thing there 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.120 is when you look at Ross's notes, the notes he 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.120 made on the West Course are different from the notes 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:28.959 he made on the East. 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:30.240 Brilliant. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.320 You know that he was looking at kind of some 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:36.480 differentiated styling between the two courses. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.480 That's fascinating. That was a course that he spent a 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.600 lot of time at, right, How can you tell when 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.080 it's a course that Ross spent a lot of time 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.240 at versus like I know Inverness is one that he 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.240 spent a ton of time at, versus one that one 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:53.360 of his associates did. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:54.120 Though, So. 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.480 Well, there's a couple of things he obviously did a 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.080 bunch of work right, and he did some whistle stop 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.440 things that seems like maybe just drove a stake in 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.520 the ground and tea here green there, we'll see you 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.240 later kind of thing. Certainly it seems there was some 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:15.280 of that. I think his early work is very interesting. 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:21.840 It's not standardized in any form. And playing Royal Dornick 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:29.120 opened my eyes to seeing how he probably saw how 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.760 creative golf holes could be, because that piece of property 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:36.000 at Dornick is amazing. But the things that I could 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.640 see his early work obviously were pretty much all him. 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.599 The one interesting thing is you don't find a lot 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:47.039 of early drawings that were totally done by him. There's 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.840 like most times it's some kind of as built, or 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.440 a club member or an engineer or somebody did a 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.760 representation of what got built. So even here at Inverness, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.000 the nineteen nineteen drawing that I pretty much call an 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.680 as built, we can't find solid evidence that it was 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.120 him or his associate that drew it. It seems to 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:14.039 be somebody here locally that created that plan. Working at 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.680 Keep Your Country Club in Wilmington, North Carolina. He did 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.560 two versions. One was way early and that drawing that 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.200 they have is kind of an as built crazy. Some 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.240 of the craziest things I've ever seen in my life 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.800 on a golf course were part of that drawing. And 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.680 then he's got one from maybe just a little after 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.040 forty with McGovern and it's more of the standardized drawing 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.599 that you would see out of his offices. The coolest stuff, 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.080 the stuff I love spending time on are his handwritten 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.560 notes when he made psyche visits after he had associates, 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:52.120 because it blows my mind how quickly it appears. And 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.440 I don't know exactly how long he was, you know, 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.480 I don't have great records of he arrived on Saturday 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:02.760 and left on the following Sunday or what, but to 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.400 see how he took those field notes, Like at Oakhill 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.760 there's field notes and the envelope from where he stayed 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.159 in the hotel that he put it all together, and 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.039 then he sent it to his office, and the office 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.599 created construction drawings that pretty much followed his notes. There 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.520 were maybe a few little tweaks, but man, those handwritten 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:28.599 notes are spectacular and his hand, his touch with the pencil. 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:31.640 They're not the most artistic things in the world. It's 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.960 kind of like have you studied some of Mackenzie's drawings, Right, 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.240 They're not the most artistic things in the world, but 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.560 they really help tell the story of what he was 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:43.520 trying to create. You know, Yeah, they're so cool, They're awesome. 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.080 I could get lost in that stuff. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.279 Past the Tempo's got the best menu in golf because 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.159 they put all of his little little catches in the menu. 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.720 It's like, well, they've asked me here at Eenverness for 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.480 some of mine from construction, and look, I'm probably a 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.279 little embarrassed by how rough some of them are, because 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.280 it's you know, I really like to provide field direction 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.159 and help get the guys headed in the right direction 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.240 of what I'm looking for before we even you'll get 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.559 on site to work work on the things in the dirt. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.080 I kind of I call them tpee sketches to try 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:18.880 to lighten the load that they're not supposed to be 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.480 this incredible artistic thing. They're supposed to provide direction and 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.360 show which way water's supposed to move and where the 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:29.080 high point is. And you know, but I actually I 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.600 had somebody draw sketch something up and they send it 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.120 to me, and I was kind of laughing about it, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.200 and they were like, well, you don't like it, and 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.520 I sent them up one of mackenzie sketches from Augusta 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.440 and I was like, no, I was saying, it looks 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:44.600 a lot like this. I was like, it's pretty cool. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.480 That stuff's great. I mean, because you just think about 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.640 the day, the limited tools the guys had, you know, 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.000 they're really just soaking it all in and creating these 0:07:56.000 --> 0:08:01.480 amazing things without you know, the bulldozer, and uh, it's 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.080 just it's really cool at the craft. You know, it 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.200 was a craft, and that's what I'm trying to do. 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.160 You know, sometimes I get stuck in technology and in 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.800 the business of it, but man, it was it was 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.440 such a craft to those guys, and even Ross that 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.520 that that worked a lot and traveled a lot. And 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.880 I'm not sure how he did all the courses or 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.600 obviously if he did all the courses that are assigned 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:26.920 to him, but the guy was brilliant. 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:32.320 With with Inverness, and you know, you it was a 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.640 course that was, you know, brilliant ross design. Obviously, tons 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:42.120 of history, six major championships, some senior opens, you know, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.840 just rich history. One of the most historic clubs in 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.840 the Midwest. But it was a course that kind of 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.160 was like a squirrel that you described earlier. So when 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.319 you came here, you know, what were what were kind 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.480 of the biggest challenges with this project? And do you 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.160 feel more pressure when you come to course like Okill 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.160 or here like Inverness where you have all that history. 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:07.880 That was like four questions. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.600 Yeah, no, no, no, I'll start with the pressure part. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.640 I mean I feel pressure at every place I'm working. 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.800 I love the idea that when I'm done, there's a 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:19.880 sense that it's hard to tell what I've done. I 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:21.880 think that's a success, you know, if I can check 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.920 that off the list. And you know, sometimes I'm probably 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.880 more successful than others. I'm probably my harshest critic. One 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.360 thing I love about like Pinehurst and thinking about the 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.920 way Ross worked there as he was constantly tweaking his stuff. 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.640 You know, to have that freedom is great because you 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.079 always are seeing something that you know, maybe I could 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.320 tweak here. There the pressure here, at Inverness and at Okill, 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:50.080 it's just that for me, it's the pressure of and 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.520 it's every club, but it's you know, I want to 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:57.199 do what's right for the club, and it's it's not 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.680 just the members of the club. Obviously I want to 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:01.640 do it's right for them, but I want to do 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.680 what's right for all of that history. And it's so 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.599 hard because the game changes so much. Like, how do 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.520 you know this whole idea of restoration is restoration exactly 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.520 the way it was? Well, that's all finding good. But 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.880 I can almost show you countless examples of where something 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.400 that was built or drawn one day was changed within 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.120 a number of years, something that changed, you know, like 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.760 you said, the sand lines you know, you said, you 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.480 know they evolve over time. Yeah, absolutely, you know, the 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.680 greens get sand splash out of bunkers and the top 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.599 lines change all the time. You know, the guy on 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.800 the mower has a rough night and the skipson area 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.160 now the green starts to get you know, rounded or whatever. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:47.000 You know, things are constantly changing. So trying to trying 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.760 to respect the history of these clubs, trying to draw. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.320 I love doing the research. I love finding old stuff. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.720 I found both of these clubs at Inverness and Okill. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.400 I've found documents that the club didn't even have, people 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.600 didn't even know was out there. You know, using that 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:09.079 as inspiration is exciting, it's not you know, I don't 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:14.120 ever feel like I'm selling myself short when I can 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.719 find a historical document and I can draw something off 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.959 of it to put it back in the ground that 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.480 fits the modern game. You know, it doesn't have to 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:28.800 be Andrew's design. It can be Andrew's respect of what 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.320 was there. And look, you open yourself up for criticism. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.960 And everybody's a golf course architect, and everybody has an opinion, 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:41.040 and I certainly understand that, and I listen hopefully maybe 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.160 more or at least on the better than average side 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:50.800 of most guys that do this. But it's the first 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:52.839 day we drove a stake at Inverness on the new 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:59.400 third Green, I was nervous. It's not doing a bunker 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.800 line or you know, a couple bunkers on a golf course. 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:06.880 That's one thing, creating golf holes that hopefully more history 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:11.800 will be built on. It's very humbling and nerve wracking 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:12.680 for sure. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:17.560 So and this, of course Invernessa got worked on by 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:22.920 Tom Fazio in the seventies late seventies and kind of altered. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:29.840 And so you built three new golf holes essentially. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.360 Yeah, three new golf holes, and then we adjusted a 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:33.040 couple of others. 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.960 Yeah, so that, I mean, how do you approach building 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.360 new golf holes on a historic course. 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.120 It's kind of a crazy story in that I showed 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.200 up here the first time and I think it was 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.840 August of sixteen, walked the golf course and I was 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.120 I mean, when I got out of the car, I 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:59.800 was blown away by the property. And it's it's kind 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:01.600 of like some of these golf courses that maybe you 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.000 respect a little bit more the more you're on them. 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.040 But the way Ross put the golf holes, his holes 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.280 on the property, he just did little things that made 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.360 them different. I mean, you could criticize them that there 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.439 were a lot of repetitive things or things that were 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.000 a little similar, but when you really studied it, you 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.640 see how you know, like the first greens up in 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.400 the air, the tenth greens down in the air, even 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.280 though they play parallel in at somewhat the same distance. 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:29.800 You know, those things blew me away. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:35.680 And as I was walking the outer part of the property, 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.360 I crossed through the fence line out into the farm 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:46.000 field and saw basically high points and things that I thought, well, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:48.680 based on what I've seen and how Ross put golf 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.880 holes on the ground, and identified good tea and green 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.200 locations and kind of connected the dots. 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.840 I was like, well that works there. 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.679 And for the new part three third hole, that's a 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:00.840 long par three. 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:03.400 Its idea. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.240 My idea for it was to replicate the original eighth hole, 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.679 which was two hundred and nine yards in the nineteen 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.160 twenty US opened up a pretty good golf hole for then, right, 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.640 like a yeah, right, So all of a sudden, I'm 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.480 standing on one high point and I'm taking my rangefinder 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:23.400 and shooting the next high point and it's two fifty 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.960 and I'm like, well, well that works pretty well. And 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.880 then walk out and see how with a little bit 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.600 of work and keeping the soil all there, I can 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.400 replicate a lot of what was on original eight, even 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.800 though original eight was on a pretty flat piece of ground. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:44.800 And then. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.120 I walked out behind that green location out in this 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:53.320 farm field, and you know, it was another high point 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.840 and you could kind of see looking back how a 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.560 golf hole could fit that would come to be the 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.560 new four And walked through the tree line and kind 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.960 of saw how the golf hole would fit the ground 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.200 really well. Right, without doing a lot of work, it 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:11.040 just would fit. And so when I did my interview 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:16.920 in November. I showed them how I thought that could work. 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:21.400 I showed the committee here, and originally I had the 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.840 fourth hole as potentially a par five because looking at 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.720 just the way the yardage is set up and with 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.080 you know, the two par fives, and you know, did 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.480 that make any sense? I showed that as a potential option. 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.160 As we worked through the process, it became clear and 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.520 clearer that we could represent the original seventh hole, which 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.080 was a hard dog leg left that was somewhat short, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.080 but we could I could build that as that new 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.600 fourth hole, and then everything fell onto the line, the 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:58.240 green site location, the forward T. You can play the 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.240 forward T and it could you could hit driver try 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.240 to get it on the green almost like Ted Ray 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.840 did on the original seventh and twenty. You could go 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:11.080 way back and have this amazing, really hard golfl you know, 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:15.320 it just it really it just fell into place. It 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:16.240 was like it was meant to be. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.160 It's fine. I Uh. There's a course in Chicago, oak 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.120 Park Country Club, and in the way the creek works 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.560 on that on the fifth hole there, there's really similar 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.120 to the way it works on that hole where you've 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:30.960 got like you kind of hit into like a low 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.440 with a creek running along the left that cuts across 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.240 the fairway, and you have to kind of make a 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.640 decision like it's depending on what tea you play. If 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.280 you play back, it's just hit driver as good as 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.920 you can hit it. But if you play up, it's like, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.280 do I try and fly over the creek? Do I 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.520 try to lay it short? Do I play it right? 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.360 Do I play it left? Like And it's it's so 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.800 interesting because it like when I stepped on that, I 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.480 was like, God, this really reminds me of this hole. Yeah, 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.880 and it's like that's a Ross course and it just 0:16:57.960 --> 0:16:59.720 kind of it does just fit. And that's like my 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.240 favorit whole out there, it's a it's a it's a 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.080 cool hole. Yeah, greens out of this world. 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:09.080 And it you know, it was like it was it 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.639 was like Ross would have doing his little sketches and 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.320 stuff walking the property. He would have identified kind of 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:21.200 similar things. And it hopefully people will and it certainly 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.000 appears that way that people will feel like those holes 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.119 fit the property better than the old holes you know 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.760 from the seventies. In that we tried to draw on 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.199 all the things that was that were done on the 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.000 original holes and tried to just pull that into what 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.040 we did on the new. 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:42.359 UH with with you. So you've got Now you've got Coioto, 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:50.280 uh Siota, ok Hill Andverness championship golf courses with championship pedigree. 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.960 I mean, how does that compare to when you're doing 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.240 a project for just like a membership play? Do you 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.840 is there anything different that goes, you know, with what 0:17:58.880 --> 0:17:59.359 you're doing? 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.200 There really isn't other than I'll draw extra center. I'm 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.439 a big believer in drawing center lines from every te 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.680 and evaluating my design for every player. If you read 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:13.760 all the great guys, almost every single one of them, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:18.520 and you know Thomas McKenzie, Flynn Ross, they all talked 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.240 about the best golf courses are capable of. I think 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.119 Ross says it's the first class golfer in the everyday player. 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.480 They all talk about it and that, you know, that's 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.760 so important. So I'll draw a center line from every 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.679 t on these championship courses. I'll draw one at three 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:40.720 twenty five. The others I'm not, you know, three hundreds plenty. 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.440 You know, guys can hit it farther obviously, and even 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.080 guys can hit it more than three to twenty five 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.880 on some of these championships. That's probably the biggest difference 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.800 just from my process. Otherwise, it's trying to make things 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.320 work and fit on the ground, what's best for the 0:18:55.320 --> 0:19:02.439 golf course, and then you know, extreme yardages unfortunately, I 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:04.720 guess it's good for business, but you know, maybe bad 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:05.480 for the game. 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:07.600 With the golf ball. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:14.520 But the biggest difference I guess maybe between Okill and 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:16.400 Inverness and Siota is. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:19.320 At Okill, the. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.480 East course is the course that's the championship and the 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.320 members are playing that every day to have fun, you know, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.399 they're playing it with their guests and to get a 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.360 kind of a change of pace. But if they're out 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.320 to just really enjoy, they're probably playing the West. So 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.240 that's quite a bit of different dynamic than here at Inverness, 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:40.359 where people are playing multiple times a week to enjoy 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.400 the game and have fun, you know. So there's maybe 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.520 a little more balance that we really tried to work 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:51.800 on here and Siota versus you know, Okill, where it's 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:53.920 a little more that's kind of the championship course. 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:55.960 But that's also the luxury. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.560 They have of having the two courses We're still trying 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.679 to make that course more enjoyable for the everyday player, 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:07.040 building forward, t's widening, short landing zones, doing some of 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.399 those things, but as far as like bunker depth than things, 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:11.000 it's a little more extreme. 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:15.720 There between the three of them, say East Course, Iota 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.679 and Inverness, Like if you could take one thing that 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.919 each of them do the best and make like, you know, 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.399 if you were just making a figurative super course, if 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.480 you could take one aspect of each's design, which would 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.280 what would be? 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:35.760 I think what we're seeing at Toyota is some of 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.520 the most unique elements of any golf course I've ever seen. 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.080 When you look at the original construction pictures and you 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.399 look at the Dodo bird from the twenty six open, 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.000 there are things on that drawing and things that are 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.320 represented in the pictures we have that I've never seen anywhere. Now, 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:53.359 they might be other places and maybe I just haven't 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.359 seen them or experienced it, and that's fine, but there 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.280 are elements there that are incredibly unique. 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:05.680 So I would definitely draw that piece from there. O kill. 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.040 It's got to be all the trees, I got it. No, 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:09.720 I'm kidding. Uh No. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:15.240 The property at oak Kill is spectacular. The it's the 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.879 golf holes change directions so gracefully, you know what I mean. 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.760 It's not like a forced switch. It's like they just 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:27.320 flow from one to the next. And I think that's 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.680 something that I really love about the East Course and 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:34.840 the way the property is utilized. We're working on the trees, 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:37.800 you know, trying to get to a balance there. They're 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.640 gonna be trees at Okill, there's no doubt. 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:40.080 It's not. 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.160 It's not gonna be Oakmont, not even close. But we're 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:47.120 trying to get the best trees there and at Everness. 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.639 You know, I think some of the greens are pretty 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:51.080 cool in a. 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:52.719 Sneaky way, do you know what I mean? 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.480 There there's a lot of variety to them, and yeah, 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.919 just got neat little corners and yeah, I mean like 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.720 even that second green, how it's got it's kind of 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:06.760 got like depressions on It's like a it's almost like 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.840