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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey yo, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and

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Speaker 2: there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, which is appropriate because

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Speaker 2: this is a barn burner of an episode.

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Speaker 1: If you ask me, did you say, hey, oh, I

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Speaker 1: did very nice.

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Speaker 2: I gotta freshen it up here there sometimes starting to

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Speaker 2: get a little stale. No, you don't think so.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean you can freshen it up, but it's

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Speaker 1: not stale.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, okay, I like that. If you have

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Speaker 2: any ideas to freshen it up ever, you know, lamb

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Speaker 2: on me. All right, let's see, we're coming up on

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Speaker 2: your seventeen. Just want to point that out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what is it in April?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Pretty cool? Yeah. And today also we are talking

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Speaker 2: about Harry Belafonte and part of the reason why, but

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Speaker 2: not the full reason why, because this is he was

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Speaker 2: a perennial man, a man of all seasons. Yeah, but

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Speaker 2: it's Black History Month, so we want to profile him,

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Speaker 2: at least in part for a Black History Month.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And he's awesome. And you know I watched that

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Speaker 1: We Are the World documentary not too long ago. Oh

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Speaker 1: yeahs a good yeah, it's really good. I think you

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Speaker 1: would enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I probably would, then, yeah, you think I would.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually really really good. And you walk away

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Speaker 1: from it thinking, well, thinking like, Harry Belafonte is awesome,

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Speaker 1: along with a lot of other people. But you walk

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Speaker 1: away thinking, man, I just want to be friends with

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Speaker 1: Lionel Richie.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I can imagine.

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Speaker 1: He's just the coolest and he tells really great story

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Speaker 1: He's a great storyteller and funny. And like I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: Lionel Richie is awesome and fun.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty cool, man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a rumor that seems fairly substantiated that he's

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Speaker 2: Kylie Jenner's real father.

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Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, apparently there's.

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Speaker 2: A lot of a lot of swinging going on out

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Speaker 2: in that neighborhood back in the day.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what Kylie Jenner looks like. Does she

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Speaker 1: look like Is it sort of like Frank Sinatra's son

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Speaker 1: ronan Pharaoh?

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Speaker 2: Uh No, nothing like that. And actually I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: any living human knows exactly what Kylie Jenner looks like.

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Speaker 2: So I'll just say, well.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about Harry be then the guy. I love

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Speaker 1: this guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Harry Beliefani. I was trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: how we can name this, and we might just say

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Speaker 2: Harry Belifani or something like that, but we could also

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Speaker 2: say the thinking person sink.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good, the real deal, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Or a genuinely great.

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Speaker 1: Person yeah, entertainer slash activist, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like he he did it all. He was just one

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Speaker 2: of these people who you know, when you approach an iconoclast,

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Speaker 2: especially one who's just revered universally, and you start picking

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Speaker 2: at the edges, you're like, oh my god, I hope

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Speaker 2: it's not.

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Speaker 1: Like garbage, right.

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Speaker 2: And you just don't get to that point like he

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Speaker 2: was through and through a genuinely good person. And one

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Speaker 2: of the reasons why you don't get to like pick

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Speaker 2: off the outer coating and find garbage underneath, because he

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Speaker 2: was just pretty much fully transparent his whole life, and

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Speaker 2: he just he was who he was, and he wasn't

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Speaker 2: apologetic for it, and he just put it all out

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Speaker 2: there based on his beliefs, and his beliefs tended to

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Speaker 2: coincide with the right side of history. Typically, he saw

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Speaker 2: people who were downtrodden being being taken advantage of, being

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Speaker 2: discriminated against, and he wanted to go help make that better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And as you'll see, you know, throughout his

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Speaker 1: career he missed opportunities because he refused to cave lost opportunities,

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Speaker 1: had opportunities taken away from him, and he was just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to be Harry Belafonte and no

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Speaker 1: one is going to change that. Yeah, career be damn, let's.

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Speaker 2: Kick the whole thing off, right, Because for those of

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Speaker 2: you who don't know, we should probably say Harry Belafine

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Speaker 2: is a legendary entertainer. That's what he's most widely known for,

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Speaker 2: and most widely known for the song Deyo, which is

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Speaker 2: why I said Heyo come full circle now in the

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Speaker 2: Banana boat song. Yeah. And if you don't know what

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Speaker 2: we're talking about still, just pause this, go onto YouTube,

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Speaker 2: type in doyoh, look for the original version and listen

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Speaker 2: to it and come back, and you will be pretty

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Speaker 2: much as versed as you need to be going into

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Speaker 2: this episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, actor, stage performer, Broadway star, Egott winner. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you don't know an Egott, that's if you have

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Speaker 1: won the Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony in your lifetime,

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Speaker 1: which mister Belafonte did, it's a rare feat indeed. But

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Speaker 1: he was born to, you know, a very humble upbringing.

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Speaker 1: In March of nineteen twenty seven, Harold George Bellefonte junior

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Speaker 1: in Harlem, New York City, to Caribbean parents. His father, Harold,

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Speaker 1: who was actually a cook on a banana boat, was

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Speaker 1: from Martinique and his mother, Melvin, was from Jamaica. And

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Speaker 1: he was raised in Harlem until he was eight, at

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Speaker 1: which time his mom said, you and your little brother

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Speaker 1: Dennis are going to live near in my hometown in Jamaica.

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Speaker 1: And so from the ages of eight to what like

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Speaker 1: twelve ish, he lived in Jamaica, and that's where he

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Speaker 1: really sort of saw the light as far as this,

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Speaker 1: you know, Caribbean folk music that would become his staple.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And he was raised by his grandmother there. His

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Speaker 2: maternal grandmother, Melvin's mom, was a white woman, a Jamaican

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Speaker 2: white woman, and she really raised him to kind of

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Speaker 2: love all people, which is a big early influence. And

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Speaker 2: then another influence of living in Jamaica at the time

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Speaker 2: was he saw black professionals. He saw black doctors, black lawyers,

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Speaker 2: completely competent, completely normal. There wasn't anything wrong with them.

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Speaker 2: They were just black doctors and black lawyers and et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And it really kind of served as a foil to

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Speaker 2: him to how things were back in America, right, which

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Speaker 2: was very discriminatory at the time. Yeah, he was back

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Speaker 2: dab in the middle of the Jim Crow era in

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Speaker 2: the United States.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so he hears this music down there, the sort

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Speaker 1: of call and response work songs that I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: where the song. Should we talk about, Dio real quick?

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Speaker 1: I mean, as we're getting going. Yeah, let's yeah, because

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Speaker 1: if you've heard the song, you might be thinking, and

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Speaker 1: you never did any research, you wondered, what the heck

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Speaker 1: is he singing about? Right, you know, come mister tally man,

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Speaker 1: tally me banana daylight comes and we want to go home. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a work song and it was a colin

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Speaker 1: response song of these guys who worked on banana boats.

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Speaker 1: And you know, they would work through the night and

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Speaker 1: the morning is when they were allowed to leave if

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Speaker 1: the tally man, the person who counted the bananas tally

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Speaker 1: that they had enough bananas to you know, tally the

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Speaker 1: to their workday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what they would get paid based on

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Speaker 2: how much they had loaded overnight, So you couldn't leave

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Speaker 2: until the guy came along and said, you loaded five

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Speaker 2: million tons of bananas, here's your fifty dollars or whatever,

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Speaker 2: then you could go home. I had no idea that's

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Speaker 2: what that song was about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I didn't know what a tally Man was,

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Speaker 1: but it makes perfect sense of someone him Tally's exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I love that song even more now, and I

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Speaker 2: just it just really kind of buttons some stuff up

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Speaker 2: because yeah, to that point, like I had never looked

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Speaker 2: up the lyrics, and I was just going by ear.

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Speaker 2: My ear's not super good at picking out lyrics. So

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Speaker 2: what singing, I don't even remember what I was. I

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Speaker 2: was just listening and it was all just kind of

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Speaker 2: like vocal sounds. It was like the cocktoo, twins or

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Speaker 2: something like that. He was just making sounds, not actually

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Speaker 2: saying anything or saying words. So now that I know

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Speaker 2: there's a story behind it, I love it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Pretty cool. So he ends up back in Harlem,

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Speaker 1: though supposedly had dyslexia, so he wasn't a great student,

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Speaker 1: so at seventeen years old he quit school. He joined

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Speaker 1: the Navy in nineteen forty four. And this was another

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Speaker 1: sort of eye opening experience because he served in World

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Speaker 1: War Two in an all black unit and at first

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, I don't like the segregation of

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Speaker 1: the army here. But he met a lot of guys

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Speaker 1: in that unit that turned him onto a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff that kind of laid to groundwork for what would

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Speaker 1: be his social awareness and activism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they turned him onto books like The Soul of

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Speaker 2: Black Folk, The Souls of Black Folks by W. B.

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Speaker 2: Du Boyce and like that, combined with his early upbringing

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Speaker 2: where he was able to expose society in Jamaica and

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Speaker 2: society in America, like this really kind of got things started.

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Speaker 2: So by the time he met his wife, his first wife,

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Speaker 2: Marguerite Byrd, he was radicalized. At this point I saw

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Speaker 2: described as like he was full on, like civil rights

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Speaker 2: movement guy. And this is the forties, so this is

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Speaker 2: before the civil rights movement had really kind of started

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Speaker 2: in earnest the at least the version that we're you know,

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Speaker 2: we think of when we think of it historically, and

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Speaker 2: Marguerite was not that way at all. She was from

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Speaker 2: an upper middle class black family. She was a sorority

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Speaker 2: girl in Virginia. She was just raised in the type

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Speaker 2: of conservative household where it's like you just trust the system,

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Speaker 2: you trust society if the news tells you something that's true.

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Speaker 2: And she and Harry were almost like foils to an extent.

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Speaker 2: She saw her role as taking care of this misguided,

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Speaker 2: like angry man and trying to help him through life.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure he saw his role in part as

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Speaker 2: like opening her eyes. But the big thing that came

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Speaker 2: out of their union, whether it was his first two kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he had two daughters with Marguerite, Adrian and of

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Speaker 1: course Sherry, who went on to become a successful actor

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Speaker 1: herself and then served as time in the Navy. They

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Speaker 1: eventually lived in Harlem, you know, as a family, and

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Speaker 1: he as a janitor's assistant at an apartment building. And

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Speaker 1: that's when another sort of monumental moment in his life happened.

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Speaker 1: He fixed the blinds in someone's apartment, in attendant's apartment there,

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Speaker 1: and just as a thank you, they gave him, they

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Speaker 1: gifted them some tickets to the theater, to the American

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Speaker 1: Negro Theater, which he had never seen live theater before,

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Speaker 1: like that, never seen you know, black actors on stage.

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Speaker 1: Performing and to say he caught the bug as an understatement.

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Speaker 1: He immediately tried to get a job there, applied to

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Speaker 1: be a stage hand at that theater. And this is

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Speaker 1: one of those life things where you're just like, are

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Speaker 1: you kidding me? This really happened. He got that job

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Speaker 1: and another young janitor there, his name was Sidney Poitier,

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Speaker 1: And it's just incredible, like, what are the odds that

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Speaker 1: these two incredible talented performers you get jobs as like

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Speaker 1: stage hands and janitors at this theater when they were

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Speaker 1: just in their I guess early twenties.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they both did so because they wanted to

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Speaker 2: do whatever they could to get their foot in the

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Speaker 2: door into theater. The world of theater. I saw somewhere

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Speaker 2: mentioned that when they were just two broke stage hands,

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Speaker 2: they loved the theater so much that they would pull

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Speaker 2: their money together to buy a single ticket to Broadway

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Speaker 2: shows and then one would see one act and then

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Speaker 2: they would switch off and the other would see the

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Speaker 2: second act or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's that you really love the theater.

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Speaker 2: Like you said, he caught the bug if you're doing

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Speaker 2: stuff like that. He also enrolled in a really that's

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Speaker 2: the measuring stick, by the way, for whether you love

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Speaker 2: theater or not.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I just go to one act and split it

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Speaker 1: with your friend, right, all right.

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Speaker 2: He also enrolled in a legendary acting workshop that was

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Speaker 2: held at the New School for years. Some of his

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Speaker 2: classmates were Walter Mathow have you seen did you see

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Speaker 2: the documentary sing your song about him? Not Walter Math

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Speaker 2: about Lafonte.

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Speaker 1: No, Math, I was a singer. No, I didn't see

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Speaker 1: that yet.

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Speaker 2: It's good.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to it's good.

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Speaker 2: But they show like some stills from that workshop, and

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Speaker 2: there's young Walter Math. Now he looks like some doofy

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Speaker 2: twenty year old Walter Math.

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Speaker 1: Now it's pretty great, except he looked fifty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much already. Yeah, but he has like a

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Speaker 2: cowlic and he's wearing like a heavy flannel shirt like

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Speaker 2: he just walked out of the woods of Minnesota or something.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: He was also in class with Tony Curtis, Marlon Brando,

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Speaker 2: and then the future Dorothy Petrillos Bornak, also known as

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Speaker 2: b Arthur.

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Speaker 1: Oh, then there's Mallod.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine you go to class and that's who

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Speaker 2: you're in class with. But they don't mean anything. Yet

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Speaker 2: they're all just acting students.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sure Bellefonte was like this, Brando, guy's

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Speaker 1: got some promise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They actually became pretty good friends.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Brando's He's worth an episode at some point, to

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Speaker 1: say the least.

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Speaker 2: I think we could do just one episode on Don

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Speaker 2: Juan de Marco.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, Harry Bellefonte's in the new school, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing what you do in theater school like that, You're

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Speaker 1: doing movement and voice and eventually like some singing. And

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Speaker 1: he was like, oh, wait a minute, I can sing

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Speaker 1: pretty good too, and everyone else said, yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: sing pretty good, and you're handsome to a fault, so

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Speaker 1: you've kind of got it all going on. There weren't

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Speaker 1: a ton of roles for black men in the theater

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Speaker 1: at the time, or at least, and this is something

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Speaker 1: that we'll see he did throughout his career, not the

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Speaker 1: kind of roles that he wanted to take that he

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Speaker 1: thought were you know, dignified, I guess is the right word.

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Speaker 1: So he's like, I'm not going to play the parts

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Speaker 1: that are available to me. I'm going to start singing.

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Speaker 1: So he went to jazz clubs like the you know,

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Speaker 1: the legendary Blue Note would sing jazz standards on stage,

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Speaker 1: and then in the nineteen forties, spurred by the interest

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Speaker 1: in it was like a renewed interest in square dancing

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Speaker 1: and folk dancing at the time that led to what

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Speaker 1: was called the folk music Revival. This was in the

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Speaker 1: early nineteen forties in Greenwich's Village, which you know would

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Speaker 1: eventually culminate in the sort of the peak of that

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Speaker 1: movement in the mid sixties with people like Pete Seeger

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Speaker 1: and Bob Dylan. It all started in the early nineteen

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Speaker 1: forties with people like Harry Belafonte going to the Village Vanguard,

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Speaker 1: this legendary folk music club and seeing Lead Belly perform

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Speaker 1: and was like, all right, well, now we're onto something here.

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Speaker 1: It's all happening, and I'm right in the epicenter of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because, like you said, he wasn't happy with singing

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Speaker 2: jazz standards or pop music, despite the fact that I

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Speaker 2: saw that he was backed at some points by Charlie Parker,

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Speaker 2: the famous drummer, Max Roach and Miles Davis, all his

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Speaker 2: young musicians, and he was like, nah, let me go

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Speaker 2: on to folk music. And he got so heavy into

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Speaker 2: folk music that he spent his time researching folk songs

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Speaker 2: at the Library of Congress to expand his repertoire. That's

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Speaker 2: how into folk music he got. And he was so

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Speaker 2: broke that he would find somebody to split a ticket

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Speaker 2: into the Library of Congress's archives and search for an hour,

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Speaker 2: and then they trade off and do the next hour.

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Speaker 2: And that means you're really into folk music.

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Speaker 1: That's how we do our research, right, that's right, just

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Speaker 1: trade off. It was around this time that he met

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Speaker 1: a pretty monumental figure in his life. It was one

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Speaker 1: of his idols. It was an actor and singer named

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Speaker 1: Paul Robison, and he was most famous, probably at the

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Speaker 1: time at least for his version of Old Man River

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Speaker 1: from Showboat from the musical Showboat, and Harry was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: nuts with this jazz stuff. I'm into the traditional music.

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Speaker 1: I'm into folk, I can you know. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: find my own voice. And he found that in what

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Speaker 1: ended up being sort of like the Calypso folk music

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Speaker 1: of the Caribbean, you know, going back to his roots.

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Speaker 2: Right, And we'll get up into that a little more

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Speaker 2: in a minute, but just kind of progressing on with

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Speaker 2: his early career, he essentially not just his singing voice,

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Speaker 2: but his stage presence. His presence was monumental, but also

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Speaker 2: he used it his movements and sometimes props and stuff

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Speaker 2: on the stage to kind of tell the story that

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Speaker 2: this folk song was trying to tell. So his act

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Speaker 2: was just a sensation, like basically out of the gate,

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Speaker 2: and he very quickly got picked up and put on

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Speaker 2: a Broadway, this time from the stage. And the first

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Speaker 2: thing I think he was in was John Murray Anderson's Almanac,

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Speaker 2: which was a musical review in nineteen fifty three, and

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Speaker 2: he did such a good job that his first time

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Speaker 2: out he wins a Tony. Not only does he win

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Speaker 2: a Tony, he's the first black man to win a Tony.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, nineteen fifty four Best Featured Actor in a Musical.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, but around the same time in

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Speaker 1: fifty three, he made his first two movies with Dorothy Dandridge,

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Speaker 1: and the second of those Carmen Jones. Dorothy Dandridge became

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Speaker 1: the first African American woman nominated for a Best Actress Oscar.

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Speaker 1: So he's among this group of young African American entertainers

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Speaker 1: that are just knocking doors down left and right and

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Speaker 1: getting you know, real recognition kind of for the first time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the early fifties.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a little break and we'll come back and

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Speaker 2: talk a little more about his Calypso stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should mention before we break here that

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Speaker 1: his marriage to Marguerite was dissolving at the time, but

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Speaker 1: he would go on to marry again, as we'll see.

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Speaker 1: But maybe we should take that break. You want to

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Speaker 1: take a break, Yeah, let's take a break. We'll be

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Speaker 1: right back.

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Speaker 2: We will.

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Speaker 3: Stoffy jaws.

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Speaker 2: Soff you okay, Chuck. So we're talking calypso now, it's

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Speaker 2: really really difficult to understate, like how big of a

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Speaker 2: star Harry Belafonte became thanks to Calypso music. Calypso music

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Speaker 2: is like this traditional Caribbean music, typically folks work songs.

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Speaker 2: Call in response is a big one. So the people

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Speaker 2: in the chorus seeing like daylight come and we want

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Speaker 2: to go home. That's like the response where Harry Belafonte

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Speaker 2: is singing the call part right, it's just traditional work

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Speaker 2: song stuff. Come on. So he starts out this whole

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Speaker 2: jam where he is playing folk music at the village.

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Speaker 2: Vanguard goes on to Broadway start singing some of this

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Speaker 2: folk like Caribbean folk music, and within a couple of

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Speaker 2: years he's on an NBC show doing the same thing,

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Speaker 2: and Dave helped us out with us. And he makes

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Speaker 2: a point that had it not been for a guy,

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Speaker 2: an artist who went by Lord Burgess but his real

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Speaker 2: name was Irving Bergie, Irving Bergie, who was also a

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Speaker 2: Caribbean American who was raised in New York, also being

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Speaker 2: into Calypso at the same exact time, and then meeting

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Speaker 2: Harry Belafonte and them collaborating, it probably would not have

365
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Speaker 2: taken off. But thanks to Lord Burgess and then a

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Speaker 2: playwright friend of Harry Belafani's named William Adaway working together

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Speaker 2: rewriting some of these traditional songs, rearranging them to make

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Speaker 2: them peppier, a little poppier, like they made Calypso, like

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Speaker 2: they just they made it way more palatable to Americans,

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Speaker 2: way more dancing, and just way more infectious than other

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Speaker 2: people who'd recorded some of these same songs previously had.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, banana butt was a cover song.

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Speaker 1: It's an old school song that had been around since

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Speaker 1: the turn of the twentieth century. And like you said,

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Speaker 1: they had a more upbeat version and it was a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge hit. He got a little you know, as we'll see,

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Speaker 1: there are people within some of the communities even admired

378
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Speaker 1: and worked with it, often didn't love him back as much.

379
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Speaker 1: Calypso was one of them, some traditional Calypso purist, apparently,

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Speaker 1: especially like in Trinidad, where Calypso was born, where like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this guy's coming in. He's in New York. He's not

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00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: a real Calypsonian, and you know, he's kind of changing

383
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Speaker 1: it up, adding like American folk sort of interest to it.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, you know what I think. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, in a New York Times interview, he said,

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Speaker 1: purism is the best cover up for mediocrity. There's no change.

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Speaker 1: We might as well just go back to the first

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Speaker 1: oough which may have been the first song, or which

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Speaker 1: must have been the first song. And I think at

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Speaker 1: which time Tuk took a tear, rolled down his cheek. Yeah,

391
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Speaker 1: and he went back to the fire.

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Speaker 2: He said that was my number one song.

393
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Speaker 1: Yeah. But Harry was like, you know, I'm taking it,

394
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Speaker 1: I'm making it popular, I'm making it my own, I'm

395
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Speaker 1: finding my own voice and it's you know, it's my

396
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Speaker 1: version of lipso folk music.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think. Also he was criticized by Trinidadians for

398
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Speaker 2: being known as the King of Calypso. They're like, we

399
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Speaker 2: have our own King of Calypso competition every year and

400
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 2: you ain't it and he's like so, and they just

401
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 2: couldn't come back with anything after that, So the whole

402
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Speaker 2: beef ended right there.

403
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Speaker 1: His nineteen fifty six album Calypso came out after that

404
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: TV special. It was a huge, huge hit. It was

405
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 1: stayed number one for thirty eight weeks, knocked Elvis out

406
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Speaker 1: of the number one spot at the time, and became

407
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Speaker 1: the very first record in history to sell one million

408
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Speaker 1: copies in its first year out.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that was just in the US alone. It did

410
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: the same thing in the UK and Chuck. One of

411
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Speaker 2: the songs on this album was Dayo. Right yeah, Deyo

412
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: itself sold a million copies just to the forty five

413
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Speaker 2: just the single, right. I can see just the single

414
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 2: selling the million copies and then the album suffering because

415
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 2: of that. The album continued to sell as well. It's

416
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: crazy how nuts for Harry Belafonte. The United States and

417
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 2: a lot of other parts of the world too, were

418
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: at that time, like he just blew up, you said.

419
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 2: It was number one on the charts for thirty eight weeks,

420
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: not on the charts for thirty eight weeks, then number

421
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Speaker 2: one album in the United States for all like the

422
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 2: better half of a year. That's no one does that.

423
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Speaker 2: That's crazy.

424
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was incredible. He was one of the biggest

425
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Speaker 1: performers in America all of a sudden, one of the

426
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: biggest singing stars, big crossover success obviously, and for all

427
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: of that. This is how he was treated on the road.

428
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: He would not be allowed to stay in the hotels

429
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: when he performed in Vegas because of segregation. When he

430
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: was touring the South with a Broadway show Almanac, state

431
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: troops threatened to shoot him in a whites only bathroom

432
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: in la He was stopped by the cops for just

433
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: taking a walk through Beverly Hills at night. So these

434
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: are the kinds of this. This was the world he

435
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: was living in. Even one of the biggest stars in

436
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: the world was not immune to the just blatant racism

437
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: that was going on.

438
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely that didn't stop him, though it didn't discourage

439
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: him like he found it personally discouraging, but he didn't behave,

440
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 2: he didn't acquiesce. Basically. Yeah, one of the things he

441
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 2: did was he took a role and this is very

442
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: much in line with his decision making as far as

443
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: his career went, which we'll talk about a little more

444
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 2: in a second. But he took a role called in

445
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: a movie called Island in Island of the Sun from

446
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven, and in it he has an insinuated

447
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: romance with a white woman, Joan Fontaine, and they don't touch,

448
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: they don't kiss, there's nothing like that. The closest to

449
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: a kiss that happens is they share a sip from

450
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: a coconut, Like one of them takes a sip, hands

451
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: it to the other one, and then she takes a sip.

452
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: That's the closest thing to an on screen kiss that there.

453
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: Was not close to a kiss, no, but it was.

454
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 2: So groundbreaking that the South Carolina legislature introduced a bill.

455
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if they passed it that would find

456
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: any theater in South Carolina that showed Island in the Sun.

457
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 2: That's how controversial that movie was. And it sounds so

458
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: tame that it's actually preposterous, and like embarrassing now, but

459
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: that was at the forefront of pushing the envelope as

460
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 2: far as race relations in America went. And that's why

461
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: Harry Belafonte was like, yes, give me that role. I

462
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: will totally take that role.

463
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. In real life, he married his second

464
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: wife around the same time. Her name is Julie Robinson.

465
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: She was a dancer and she was white, and they

466
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: were probably, I would not even say one of the

467
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: most they were probably the most prominent interracial couple in

468
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: America at the time.

469
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: For sure. She was also Brando's girlfriend when they met.

470
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: Look out, Marlon, Harry Delafante pretty handsome guy.

471
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: Oh man, beyond handsome. Yeah, so, Chuck, when we were

472
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 2: just talking about Islands in the Sun, I was saying

473
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: that Harry Belafonte would totally choose a role that pushed

474
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 2: the envelope for race relations, not to stick it in

475
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: the eye of white America, but to push things forward

476
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 2: and just basically say black people are people too, Let's

477
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: portray them as such on the screen. Okay.

478
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

479
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: In doing that, he had to choose over and over

480
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 2: and over again between advancing his career and standing by

481
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 2: his values and without missing a single opportunity. He stood

482
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 2: by his values every time.

483
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he was offered and that's just kind

484
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: of what I was alluding to earlier. He was offered roles.

485
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: He called them Uncle Tom roles, and he said that's

486
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: about all you could get at, you know, at one

487
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: point in Hollywood or on stage, and he just wouldn't

488
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: play those roles. He you know, it depends on who

489
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: you are and where you draw the line, and I

490
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: mean that's where he drew his line. His good friend

491
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: Sidney Poitier would take not necessarily those roles, but other

492
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: roles that Harry Belafonte didn't think had enough sort of

493
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: nuance for a black actor or spoke to his truth.

494
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: Sometimes his friend Sidney Poitier would take those roles, not

495
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: in any way like a sellout or anything like that.

496
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: He had his own ideas of how to you know,

497
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: advance the cause and advance his career and stay in

498
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: the limelight so he could do his good work as well.

499
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: But you know, they were rivals in a way, but

500
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: also best friends.

501
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, but certainly professional rivals because as almost invariably

502
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: the roles that Bellefani passed on would go to Poitier because,

503
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 2: like you said, he would take these roles and he was.

504
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: He became, as a result, the ambassador of Black America

505
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 2: to white America because these roles he was taking in

506
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: the early sixties, these films were written to advance the

507
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 2: cause of black civil rights in the United States, and

508
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: Sydney Potier is like, yes, put me out there, tell

509
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,479
Speaker 2: me what we need to do, and let's show these

510
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: Americans that black people are people too. And like you said,

511
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: Bellefani was like, there's just it's still missing some stuff.

512
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: And like Lily's of the Field is a good example.

513
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: It's from nineteen sixty three. It starred Sidney Potier. He

514
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: went on to win an Oscar for it, and he

515
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: plays a black man who is helping Nazi nuns hide

516
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: from the Communists. And the reason Bellefane passed on it

517
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 2: is because he said that this black man has like

518
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: no background, no history, not really a human. He said

519
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: to Henry Lewis Gates and Junior in nineteen ninety six

520
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: in The New Yorker, it's a really good article. He said,

521
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: he didn't kiss anybody, he didn't touch anybody. He had

522
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 2: no culture, he had no history. He had no family,

523
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: he had nothing, So he was like a not even

524
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: a caricature of a black person. He was like human

525
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: being happens to be black, go, you know, And that

526
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: just was not nearly enough for what Harry Bellafind was

527
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: willing to take on as an actor. So he would

528
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: just let these things come and go and pass on them,

529
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: or else he would try it, push the envelope, that

530
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: thing would get canceled and he'd just move on. He

531
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: never ever went to Hollywood, you know, on his knees

532
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: or asking, like they came to him and he would

533
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: either pass or not based on what kind of how

534
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: willing they were to portray black people in that film.

535
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, highly principled decision making career wise, Yes, that's fair.

536
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: It is tough to do period, but very tough to

537
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: do trying to make it cut throat business like Hollywood,

538
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: you know.

539
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: For sure. Man.

540
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: So in fifty six, this was, you know, kind of

541
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: right around the time he had gotten married, and that

542
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: Islands in the Sun had come out just before that.

543
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: He got a phone call from Martin Luther King Junior

544
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: and they ended up meeting in person and having a

545
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: four hour meeting. On their first meeting, and this is

546
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: sort of what lit the fire for Bellefonte to really

547
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: really get into very public civil rights work. It was

548
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: his awakening in a lot of ways. And he wasn't

549
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, you know, I'll show up and I'll

550
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: be a celebrity face here and there. He was bailing

551
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: civil rights leaders out of jail. He and Sidney Poitiers

552
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: were smuggling cash seventy grand into Mississippi during the Freedom Rides,

553
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: and you know with the Freedom Schools. I think we

554
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: did a whole episode in the Freedom Schools at one

555
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: point he helped. He didn't just show up at the

556
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: march on Washington. He was one of the organizers. So

557
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: he was he was in deep doing the hard work.

558
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he he looked out for mlk's family during mlk's life,

559
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 2: but also like he he funded his children's education. Yeah,

560
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: he took out a huge insurance life insurance policy against MLK.

561
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: And then he just was there for the family afterwards.

562
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: Like he kind of stepped in when MLK was assassinated.

563
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 2: So he certainly walked the walk. He was at all

564
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: these you know, sit ins and rallies and marches, and

565
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: he just was there. He was like you said, he

566
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: wasn't just a figurehead. He didn't just show up for

567
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: the press. He didn't just write checks behind the scenes.

568
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: He did it all. And again, it just goes right

569
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: back to the upbringing from his mom, who taught him like,

570
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: not only just wherever you see injustice in the world,

571
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: go go fight it and try to fix it, like

572
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: actively search every day for injustice that you can go help.

573
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: And you know, there was nothing more unjustin right in

574
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: your face for an American, a black American particular at

575
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: the time than the Civil rights movement.

576
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, so his his you know, entertaining or entertainment

577
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 1: career kept blossoming as well, kind of in conjunction with this,

578
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: and he would use that to sort of, you know,

579
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: help subtly raise awareness just about his community and what

580
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: he's like and what his people are like. And the

581
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: Tonight Show is a big example. In nineteen sixty eight,

582
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: Johnny Carson invited him to host for a week, to

583
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: host the Tonight Show. You know, take Johnny Seed, first

584
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: black guest host in the history of the show. And

585
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: this is in nineteen sixty eight. You know, everything going

586
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: on in nineteen sixty eight seems fraud and race relations

587
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: certainly were a part of that, and he wasn't like,

588
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: all right, I'll go host the show and I'll get

589
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: in and just kind of tried out the usual guest

590
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: that Johnny might have. He said, no, I'm gonna have

591
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King Junior and Aretha Franklin

592
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: and Dion Warwick and you know, Paul Newman and Nipsey

593
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: Russell and all these people who had these progressive causes

594
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: or were just famous black entertainers who didn't get that

595
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: kind of stage very often and open every night with

596
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: a song. Obviously Johnny didn't do anything like that, so

597
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: it was it was still fun and entertaining, but it

598
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: was also educating people and talking about serious issues in

599
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: these interviews.

600
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: Yes, so that was just huge. I mean also you

601
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: got a credit Johnny Carson too. He did that on purpose.

602
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: He wasn't like, I'm going on vacation for we just

603
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: call whoever like. He did that on purpose because he

604
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: was trying to advance race relations as well, So hats

605
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: off to him for that as well. They also had

606
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: really high ratings. That was another thing too. Harry bell

607
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: Fini when he did something on TV it drew viewers,

608
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: and even ill it didn't matter because there were so

609
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: many angry white racists in America that would call up

610
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: these sponsors and be like, you're sponsoring this this black

611
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: guy on this show, you better stop. They go to

612
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: the producers. The producers would come to Bellifani and be like, hey,

613
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: you know how you have white people and black people

614
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: dancing together. What if we just did white or just

615
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: did black. Bellifani wouldn't blink and it would get canceled

616
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: despite all of the crazy great reviews and viewership it had,

617
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: and you know, that would be that, and he would

618
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: just kind of move on. But of course he developed

619
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: like this distrust and distaste for the entertainment industry, and

620
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: I saw that he initially thought that he would be

621
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: able to help change America through Hollywood, and then he

622
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: quickly came to see like, no, Hollywood is just one

623
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: more facet of this machine that keeps things going exactly

624
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: as they are. So he got really disgusted by that.

625
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: Kind of fortunately for us, because he really kind of

626
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: started to throw more and more of his inner into

627
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: being an activist, not just in the United States but

628
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 2: around the world, and in particular Paul Robison, like you said,

629
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: was one of his idols, who was also just one

630
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: of the early civil rights crusaders around the world. And

631
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: then Eleanor Roosevelt FDR's wife first lady, introduced him to

632
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: to the plight of different countries in Africa, which was

633
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 2: decolonizing at the time, and he really kind of turned

634
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: his attention toward that continent for a while.

635
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean all of the major causes

636
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: that you've heard from, you know, basically starting then even

637
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: and especially through the eighties with apartheid in South Africa,

638
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: Kenyan independence, and you know I mentioned early on We

639
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: Are the World Ethiopia and the famines there was. He

640
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: was the guy that you know called up Quincy Jones

641
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: and was like, hey, we need to do something here,

642
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: and We Are the World was a huge, huge hit

643
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: that sold I think twenty million copies and raised sixty

644
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: five million bucks for famine relief. And if you were

645
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: a kid in nineteen eighty five, We Are the World

646
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: was like that and Live Aid We're two of the

647
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: biggest deals in music history. And you know, I was

648
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: fourteen years old at the time. It was just like

649
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: it was incredible to see all these people together, and like,

650
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: even as a kid, even as a like a little

651
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: snot nosed fourteen year old white kid from the South,

652
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: I knew that I was watching was important. I didn't

653
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: maybe fully understand it. I had seen stuff about the

654
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: famine on television, but it was it was raising awareness

655
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: for everybody, including little white suburban kids from Georgia.

656
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is, you know, exactly part of the point,

657
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: in addition to raising money too.

658
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

659
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: One of the cool things I saw about it was

660
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it was his idea or if

661
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: he kind of headed up the push to do this

662
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 2: or both, but Harry Bella finally's credited with talking radio

663
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: stations around the world into playing We Are the World

664
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: at the same time on the same day. It was,

665
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 2: I think March twenty eighth, nineteen eighty six. I remember

666
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: there was something like do you remember that? Oh, yeah, cool.

667
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 2: There was like five thousand radio stations around the world

668
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 2: and they all played it at the same time I

669
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 2: think ten fifty am Eastern Standard time, and Musak actually

670
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: played it as well, and it was only the second

671
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: time in the history of music that they played voices

672
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: over their service, which, by the way, at the time

673
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: reached like eighty million Americans. So that's a lot of

674
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: people listening to We Are the World at that same moment,

675
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: which is neat, that's.

676
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 1: Right, and including just I accounted for one of those.

677
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: I don't remember listening to it on the radio, but

678
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 2: I do remember my family sitting around listening to the record.

679
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: Yeah it's so funny. All right, maybe we should take

680
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: our second break and come up and talk some more

681
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: about Harry Belafonte.

682
00:36:52,520 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: Okay, joh all right, So Harry's doing his activism.

683
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: He is still an entertainer. He never, you know, sort

684
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: of fully left that behind, and you know, he started

685
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: doing less and less of that as like through the

686
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: sort of eighties and nineties when his activism was I

687
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: think at its peak, but he was still doing his thing.

688
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty, he became the first black American to

689
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: win an Emmy for Tonight with Bellafonte, one of his

690
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: TV specials, again which they were all super big hits,

691
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: even though people loved them and the ratings were through

692
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: the roof, it was that silent majority complaining about petul

693
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: La Clark holding his arm, a white woman holding his

694
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: arm in a special. It drove away some advertisers, which

695
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: is just, you know, very sad to say the least,

696
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: but he was still serving up this sort of Caribbean

697
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: tinge folk music to people. CBS ordered five more episodes

698
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: after Tonight with Bellefonte was such a big success. But

699
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: of course that was one of the ones where sponsorship

700
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: was pulled because he had black people and white people

701
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: dancing and singing together and said, no, no, no, no,

702
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: you cannot do that.

703
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 2: Right, And so he would just leave show business for

704
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: you know, years at a time, or at least like

705
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: TV or movies or something like that. But he got

706
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: pulled back into it in the early seventies because his

707
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: buddy Sidney Poitier was like, Hey, I want to start

708
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 2: directing blackspolitation movies. Let's do this. And they made Buck

709
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: in the Preacher, which I have not seen. I think

710
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: it was from nineteen seventy two. Everything I've read about

711
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 2: it makes me want to see it. Basically immediately Sidney

712
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: Poidier directed it, but he also plays Buck, who's this

713
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: ex Civil War soldier who helps ensure safe passage for

714
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: African Americans moving out of Louisiana out west after the

715
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: Civil War, and the Preacher is Harry Belafonte, who's this

716
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 2: con artist dressed as a preacher. It just sounds awesome.

717
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: And then Uptown Saturday Night. Haven't seen that one either,

718
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: It sounds pretty great, except it's so hard now to

719
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: get past anything with Bill Cosby. Yeah, it's so hard,

720
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: not just because of the horrible stuff he did sexually

721
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 2: assaulting women, but also because he was so preachy leading

722
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: up to it. He was so holier than how and

723
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 2: it makes the whole thing so much worse if you ask.

724
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 1: Me, Yeah, I mean and this he was doing those

725
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: things back then, right too. The CNN documentary that camal

726
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: Bell did was very upsetting to see. But the way

727
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: they did it, I think I mentioned it before, was

728
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: it was they were just sort of tracking his career

729
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: and like, and he was the biggest star and on

730
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: TV at the time, and this was nineteen sixty something,

731
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: and then it was like in nineteen sixty whatever, he

732
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted this woman, right, and it was happening the

733
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: whole time. So I'm with you, impossible to watch that stuff,

734
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: but you can watch Bucket the Preacher.

735
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: Though, right, he's not in that, that's right.

736
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: So hearing all this, you're like, wow, Harry Bellefonte was

737
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: a superman and he never got in bad mood, and

738
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: he never got tired, and he was never frustrated. And

739
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: it was just wine and roses all the time for

740
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: Harry Bellefonte. And that is not the case. It was

741
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: a serious fatigue on his life. To do what he

742
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: did was hard work, emotionally, hard work, physically demanding, going

743
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: all over the place doing his thing while also being

744
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: an entertainer. And you know, in nineteen sixty I think

745
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: this is a little bit after Martin Luther King Jr.

746
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: Was murdered, he was bellefont He was asked what it's

747
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: like being such a prominent civil rights leader, and he

748
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: was pretty testy. He said, you know, I'd like to

749
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: take my family and go live in Africa and be

750
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: able to stop answering questions though I were a spokesman

751
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: for my people. I hate marching and getting called at

752
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: three am to bail some cats out of jail. And

753
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: this is just the toll that that takes on anybody,

754
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: even like a superman like Harry Bellefonte. Yeah, also a human.

755
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he had he had a really great inspiration

756
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: in the form of Paul Robison, who kind of guided

757
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: things you mentioned in before. He was an idol of

758
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: his and a real inspiration. He was the guy who's

759
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: saying old Man River among other things. But he was

760
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: this He was a model for Harry Belafonte. Paul Robison

761
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: was running around the world. He took his fame and

762
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 2: he used it to highlight, you know, plights around the

763
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 2: around the world. But he was also like a huge

764
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: He protested for peace and he ran around the world

765
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: trying to make peace, I mean between the US and

766
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 2: the USSR at the beginning of the Cold War. This

767
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: guy was going back and forth trying to create friendships

768
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: where there was nothing but animosity. He did the same

769
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 2: thing with communist China. And he was also not afraid

770
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: to criticize the United States and like its racist policies

771
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 2: too at the time. So you put all that together.

772
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: This guy was prime meet for the McCarthy trials and

773
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: he got blacklisted, but he refused to be cout. He

774
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 2: would not name names, he would not renounce his work,

775
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: he would not take back anything that they demanded the

776
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: take back. And he really served as this model for

777
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: Harry Belafonte. Despite I mean, Robison had it hard he

778
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 2: fell hard the State Department. He was doing all this

779
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: traveling to promote peace. The State Department suspended his passport

780
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: from nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty eight. Kind of hard

781
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: to run around the world pre internet ones are still

782
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 2: relatively expensive to use trying to organize peace when you

783
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 2: can't travel outside of the US. But he was a

784
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: really like he deserves it, I think, an episode himself.

785
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 2: But he stood as this inspiration and model for Harry Belafonte.

786
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 2: So even when he would get down trodden and defeated,

787
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 2: he had Paul Robison to look to him, be like

788
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: this guy, this guy went through even even worse than me.

789
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And it wasn't always a love affair

790
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: within the black community with Harry Belafonte. He was criticized

791
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: at various times for marrying white women. He married two

792
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: white women after splitting up with Julie Robinson in two

793
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: thousand and four. He married Pamela Frank in two thousand

794
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: and eight. He don't he doesn't think, you know, he

795
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: was of mixed race himself, so he didn't feel like

796
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: at times he was always fully accepted by the black community,

797
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: and he would, you know, be critical of that in

798
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six in The New Yorker. He said, and

799
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: again that's a great, great read. He said, let me

800
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: tell you something, I don't know of any artist at

801
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: my level who has ever been as much on the

802
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: line for black liberation as I have, and has as

803
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: few black people in attendance at anything he does as

804
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: I do. And he described one of his typical concerts,

805
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 1: I never saw so many white people in my life.

806
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: So he never felt like he got the support from

807
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: the black community that he thought he deserved and he

808
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 1: thought he earned. And when it came to who he married,

809
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 1: he said, you know, I didn't marry anyone to further

810
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: and integration, cause like I married who I fell in

811
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: love with, and they married me because they fell in

812
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: love with me.

813
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

814
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

815
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: So we've kind of talked about some of the stuff,

816
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: some of the causes he took up that he's best

817
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: known for, like civil rights. Did you mention anti apartheid? Yeah.

818
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: He performed at a rally and no New rally. In

819
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 2: the early eighties in Germany, he sought a broker peace

820
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: between the Crips and the Bloods, and back in the

821
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 2: late eighties he protested the Iraq War in the early

822
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 2: two thousands, and then the cause that he he kind

823
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: of got behind towards the very end of his life

824
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: was incarceration in general. He was I think the first

825
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 2: performer to play Riker's Island. James Brown famously did in

826
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two. Harry Belafinal did it a couple of

827
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: months before James Brown, and then throughout the rest of

828
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: his career he would visit prisons and hang out with

829
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: the inmates. But he also really focused on child incarceration

830
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 2: and just found that totally amoral and immoral and inexcusable.

831
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 2: So he really started a whole generation of like activists

832
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: in that right before he died. Just one more thing

833
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 2: he did, you know.

834
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, he passed away just a couple of years ago,

835
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: in April April twenty fifth of twenty twenty three, at

836
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: ninety six. So just a very full long life and

837
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: received lots of accolae during that lifetime. I mentioned the Egot.

838
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: Part of that included the OSCAR, was the gene Herschelt

839
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: Humanitarian Award in twenty fourteen and a Lifetime Achievement Grammy

840
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: in two thousand. You can add the Kennedy Center honor

841
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine to that list, and the National

842
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: Medal of the Arts. Old Billy Clinton gave him that

843
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 1: one in nineteen ninety four. And what else? In Harlem

844
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: he had a library named after him in twenty seventeen

845
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: near his childhood home. It was renamed the Harry Bellefonte

846
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifteenth Street Library.

847
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also saw he was inducted into the Rock

848
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 2: and Roll Hall of Fame in twenty twenty two, and

849
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: the bio almost defiantly dares you to be like, he's

850
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 2: not rock and roll. They said that basically every artist

851
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 2: who's mixed politics with their music, from Bob Dylan and

852
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 2: Bono to Redge Against the Machine and Public Enemy, they

853
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: quote stand on his broad shoulders, which I mean, that's

854
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 2: absolutely true.

855
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are plenty of non quote unquote rock

856
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: and roll bands in that Hall of Fame.

857
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: Sure, but they were like, say something and then yeah,

858
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: you k back off, you did, and then you felt

859
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 2: like a jackass.

860
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, is anyone going to really protest that?

861
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. I could see Gene Simmons saying something

862
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: about it. Right. There's also a really great appearance on

863
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: The Muppet show where he sings Deo with some of

864
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: the muppets, and it's just sweet and wholesome and just great.

865
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, good stuff.

866
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: One more thing we cannot not mention Beetlejuice. Dune.

867
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: Oh was he did he have something to do with beetlejuice? Yeah,

868
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: obviously people were already typing their emails. Beetlejuice featured not

869
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: only the Banana Boat song, but Jumping the Line, which

870
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: I like more than the banana bats. I did hold

871
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: that song to great effect. I think Tim Burton apparently

872
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 1: wasn't super keen. He didn't think it was funny enough,

873
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: and I'm like, dude, it's not funny. It's fun you

874
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: added two extra letters. It's not supposed to be like

875
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,479
Speaker 1: slap your knee funny, but it is certainly fun. And

876
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: the little dance routines, they're almost like apart from the

877
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: movie itself, like additional like an additional music video or

878
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 1: something like in the movie. But they are part one

879
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: small part, or I guess a large part really of

880
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: what makes that movie so great were those two numbers.

881
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the whole I mean, the whole thing's just amazing.

882
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 2: But for some reason, Catherine O'Hara is just you just

883
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: see she's so cool when she's doing this, like it's

884
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 2: just perfect. And she's supposedly the one who suggested Calypso

885
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: for the music that they use.

886
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: Oh that's funny, Harry Bells not funny.

887
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 2: No, it's not funny at all, Chuck, You're absolutely right,

888
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: it's fun. But apparently Harry bell Fani said that about

889
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 2: a year after Beetle Juicy, he became popular with kids.

890
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 2: Apparently do and jump the line, but jump in the line. Sorry.

891
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: They both ended up on the Billboard two hundred after

892
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: be Juice for a little while, and he said that

893
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 2: all sorts of kids would come up to him after

894
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 2: they saw Beetlejuice, and he said that they would wipe

895
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: their hands full of tomato, ketchup and mustard on my clothes.

896
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: And I enjoyed the whole excursion.

897
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, go listen to some of his stuff. I've been

898
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: listening to it for two days, Harry Bellefonte and the

899
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: Bellefonte Folk Singers, and it's some of it's maybe unusual

900
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: to modern ears, but it's like really good stuff.

901
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's even better if you watch like footage

902
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: of him singing it too, like you really his stage

903
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 2: presence really comes across even on video years later.

904
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: That's right. Did we mention he was handsome? He was

905
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: easy on the eyes, the hard to look at it.

906
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. He could really wear a shirt unbuttoned

907
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: down to his navel too.

908
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: Man, Oh boy, I never could get away.

909
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: I can't either. All right, Well that's Harry Belafana. Everybody

910
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: rip Harry R I P. And if you want to

911
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: know more about Harry Belafani, like Chuck Segg, go look

912
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 2: him on up and start listening to them and watching

913
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: some videos. And in the meantime, I think that means

914
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 2: it's time for listener mail.

915
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: This is just a little quickie. Hey, guys, are heard

916
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: on a recent Christmas episode that you're desperate for new

917
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: Christmas material. A few months ago, I sent in a

918
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: show idea about the Halifax explosion. Did you know that

919
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: this has a Christmas connection? Halifax was so thankful for

920
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: the help from the city of Boston that we continue

921
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: to send Halifax their city's Christmas tree to this very day.

922
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 2: Pretty cool Boston does or Halifax.

923
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: Does Boston sends I don't know Halifax sends Boston the

924
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:40,959
Speaker 1: tree yeah.

925
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 2: Now the story is delightful.

926
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is all the best from your neighbors

927
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: in Canada. That is the Matthias Dernford.

928
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: That's a great one. We should have done that as

929
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 2: like a segment, but now we can't because everybody knows it.

930
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we did a whole episode on it.

931
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: But this is a nice identity.

932
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 2: Did you say Matthias or Matthias?

933
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: Well, I mean there's an hre in there. I don't

934
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: know if it's pronounced.

935
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 2: Though, Matthias.

936
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: I said Matthiah.

937
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: Good. Well, if you want to be like Matthias and

938
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: have us debate how to say your name, love that

939
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 2: kind of thing. You can send us an email too

940
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 2: to stuff podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

941
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

942
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

943
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.