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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: I am super excited to share some of the special

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Speaker 1: moments from my book tour with you in an upcoming episode,

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Speaker 1: But first you all have to listen to this interview

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Speaker 1: I did with Toronto Burke. She is really amazing and

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Speaker 1: graciously agreed to join me on my l A tour

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Speaker 1: stop on November twelve. Since I can't stop thinking about

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Speaker 1: this interview, I figured that was reason enough to share

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Speaker 1: it in full. So I hope you all will appreciate

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Speaker 1: listening to this wonderful, wise woman as much as I did.

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Speaker 1: You know, this global movement known as Me Too would

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Speaker 1: not have happened without the leadership of my first guest Tonight.

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Speaker 1: For more than twenty five years, activists and advocate Toronto

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Speaker 1: Burke has worked at the intersection of sexual violence and

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Speaker 1: racial justice. So here are some questions. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about, what has this movement achieved, where are we

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Speaker 1: now and how did it all really begin? It is

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Speaker 1: such an honor to welcome to the stage Toronto Burke.

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Speaker 1: We'll do the ericss Toronta. Look at Toronto. Does she

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Speaker 1: look fabulous? Well, I mean I've had to dress up

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Speaker 1: for this occasion. Well you look awesome and thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for spending some time with us tonight. You know,

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Speaker 1: you wrote your own own memoir that came out in

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Speaker 1: September called Unbound, which is a beautiful cover by the way, Toronto.

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Speaker 1: And I know the book you the book you wrote

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Speaker 1: ended up being a very different book than you set

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Speaker 1: out to write. So what did you want to write

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Speaker 1: and what did it become? Well? I always thought that Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, um, so I thought I was going

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Speaker 1: to write a book for survivors about what survival looked like.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen so many misconceptions about that in

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Speaker 1: and of itself that I wanted to write about survival stories. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, part of it was personal, and part

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Speaker 1: of it was the people around like no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you have to write a memoir. Um. It quickly became

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Speaker 1: a memoir because the distortion that I saw was partly

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Speaker 1: because people didn't really understand the origins of me too.

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Speaker 1: So hearing people say things like oh, it's a witch hunt. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's just trying to take down powerful men. Oh it

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Speaker 1: was like you said, People would take selfies and say

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Speaker 1: one to three me too, Like No, that's actually not okay.

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Speaker 1: It's like a thing that you say when you've been

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Speaker 1: through a thing. UM So, I just knew people really

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Speaker 1: didn't understand it, and I could not explain it in

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Speaker 1: like six minutes sound bites on an evening, is right.

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Speaker 1: I needed time to unpack the story and get into

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Speaker 1: the nooks and crannies of it and unpacked the story

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Speaker 1: of your life, which is why it's such an important

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Speaker 1: and powerful memoir because of your personal experiences, both as

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Speaker 1: a little girl and later as a young woman in Solma, Alabama.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain to us what happened in those two events?

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Speaker 1: I think kind of diverged, didn't they in a way?

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Speaker 1: In a way, yeah, I mean I was I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: survive of child sexual abuse that started it seven years old,

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Speaker 1: and in my experience, we and I think people actually

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Speaker 1: don't acknowledge this enough that in October when me Too enviral,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just people talking about being harassed at work

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Speaker 1: or you know, having a Weinstein kind of experience. It

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Speaker 1: was a lot of people who had experienced sexual assault

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Speaker 1: on college campuses or child sexual abuse and um and

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Speaker 1: the thing about sexual violence is that regardless of the

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Speaker 1: circumstance is that got you there. The thing that it

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Speaker 1: leaves you with is what connects us. It's that common

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Speaker 1: trauma that we have that we're trying to overcome. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what sort of set me on it.

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Speaker 1: I was always into work around social justice, right, that's

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Speaker 1: my whole life. And I was actually molded by people

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Speaker 1: who are veterans of the civil rights movement, black power movement,

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Speaker 1: like labor movements, things of that nature from the six

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Speaker 1: season seventies, and while I was living in Selma, Alabama,

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Speaker 1: which is everybody knows for its historic story because you

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Speaker 1: grew up in New York. I grew up in New

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Speaker 1: York and from the Bronx and then you and then

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Speaker 1: and then you went to college in Alabama and then

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Speaker 1: you started doing work in Selma. Yes, and I've actually

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Speaker 1: started in high school because I was in a program.

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Speaker 1: It was based in Selma, and we had these larger

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Speaker 1: than life figures who would come and talk to us,

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Speaker 1: and one of them was um Reverend James Bevil, who

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know his name, but you

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Speaker 1: know his work if you know the Children's March during

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Speaker 1: the Um or the sum of the Montgomery match all

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Speaker 1: of those things. He was like the chief lieutenant and

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Speaker 1: architect of a lot of the biggest moments of the

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Speaker 1: civil rights movement and one of Dr King's right hand

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Speaker 1: you know. Confidence he also was a serial pedophile and

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Speaker 1: child molester um and he showed up in Selma, you know,

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Speaker 1: with his sort of band of misfits, and I threw

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Speaker 1: a series of different events which I account in my book.

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Speaker 1: Uh found out that he was a pedophile, and it

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Speaker 1: was it was two things that kind of was jarring,

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Speaker 1: the fact that he was this person and the fact

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Speaker 1: that the community was willing to kind of overlook it. Right,

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Speaker 1: Did you feel portrayed by the civil rights movement because

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Speaker 1: of that? In a way, not by the movement, because

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Speaker 1: I don't define the movement by any singular person, and

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Speaker 1: the movement we're still in the movement, right, and so

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Speaker 1: I don't think that any one person defines it. And

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Speaker 1: so I don't you know, I don't take away from

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Speaker 1: I don't even take away from his actual accomplishments. But

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Speaker 1: I can separate his accomplishments from who he was, and

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Speaker 1: so we don't we can benefit from his accomplishments without

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Speaker 1: putting him on a pedestal. Right, you still have to

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Speaker 1: be accountable for the things that you did. And what

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Speaker 1: happens is that people were so enamored by who he

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Speaker 1: was and who he stood next to, that they were

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Speaker 1: willing to overlook the harm that he was causing current day.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what happens in a lot of cases. Right.

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Speaker 1: They weighed the benefits and the and and and who

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Speaker 1: the people are, and they said, well, we need this

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Speaker 1: more than we need to protect children, or we need

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Speaker 1: to protect women or protect whoever um. And I just

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do it because those same people who introduced me

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Speaker 1: to him also said that I have a duty to

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Speaker 1: my community. That's what they told me, That's what they

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Speaker 1: had been training me for. And I looked around in

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Speaker 1: this community and I saw all of these children and

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Speaker 1: young people and other people who were experiencing sexual violence,

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Speaker 1: and there was no response to it. And what those

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Speaker 1: same people told me is that community problems deserve a

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Speaker 1: community response, and me too was a part of that response.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. You started holding these workshops for

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Speaker 1: young girls of color, and you would talk about victims

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Speaker 1: of sexual violence, and you would give details about their experiences,

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Speaker 1: and then you would reveal these for very famous women

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Speaker 1: tell us about that. Well. I was working in with

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Speaker 1: young girls, and pop culture has a hold on our children,

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Speaker 1: as we know, and I was trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: a way to have to make this conversation digestible for them,

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Speaker 1: for them to understand. And so you know, when Gabrielle Union,

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Speaker 1: for instance, was a person who spoke openly about having

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Speaker 1: been sexual assaulted, when I just Oprah Winfrey, you know,

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Speaker 1: or Fantasia or Maya Angelo, you know that there were

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Speaker 1: all these stories that I knew. The kids didn't know.

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Speaker 1: They only saw the after effects. And what I wanted

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Speaker 1: them to know was there's life after right. You are

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Speaker 1: not the sum total of what happened to you. And

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Speaker 1: so I would tell them the story of these women

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Speaker 1: without giving their names, and then when I gave the name,

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Speaker 1: they go, oh, no, that's impossible, because they thought, how

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Speaker 1: could something that happened to me happened to some somebody

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Speaker 1: like Oprah and how could they go on to be

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Speaker 1: successful adults. And so that's what I wanted to really

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Speaker 1: capture for them, that there is triumph after the trauma

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Speaker 1: and it worked, and how did it impact your own

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Speaker 1: personal story? Because you kept that so secret, uh see,

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Speaker 1: and for so long, and did their empowerment or empowering

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Speaker 1: them help you find the strengthen yourself to talk about

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Speaker 1: happened to at seven? It kind of forced me to see.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was going to protect myself. I thought

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna help. It's too late for me, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to help the children. Um. But I realized

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Speaker 1: very quickly that I could not authentically help without authentically

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Speaker 1: facing the things that I dealt with. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a way that we can operate in

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Speaker 1: the world where you can speak one thing, but you

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Speaker 1: don't actually live it. So I was very good at

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Speaker 1: speaking in you know, and I could speak healing into

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Speaker 1: the children and talk about it, but I couldn't face

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Speaker 1: it in myself. And when those two things came together,

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Speaker 1: I realized, oh, I can't. I'm not actually doing this

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Speaker 1: work well unless I'm working on myself. And so it

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Speaker 1: that work forced me to deal with my own, my

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Speaker 1: own sort of stuff. I know that you felt shamed,

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Speaker 1: but it took you quite a while to feel anger.

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Speaker 1: And you ran into uh, your abuser unexpectedly at a

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Speaker 1: Father's Day event in your old neighborhood and the Bronx.

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Speaker 1: He was a police officer now and had kids. And

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Speaker 1: how did that feel seeing him for the first time?

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Speaker 1: And I guess many years right at that point, it

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Speaker 1: was probably about thirty plus years. Um, it was the

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Speaker 1: first time I had tapped into that anger. See, I

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Speaker 1: grew up feeling like, not he did a bad thing,

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Speaker 1: but we did a bad thing. I felt complicit in

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Speaker 1: my own abuse because what I was told is that

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Speaker 1: good girls don't let people touch their private parts, and

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Speaker 1: good girls don't go into dark corners with grown with

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Speaker 1: grown boys, you know, Like I had heard all of

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Speaker 1: these rules. But it's probably about eighteen and I was seven,

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Speaker 1: and so I thought i'd heard the rules, but with

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Speaker 1: no adult had ever said to me is if one

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Speaker 1: of these rules is broken, it's not your fault. So

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Speaker 1: I spent years feeling complicit, like I broke the rules.

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Speaker 1: I'm a bad girl. Um. And by the time I

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Speaker 1: saw him, I had been doing work. I had been

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Speaker 1: doing this work for a while and finally the anger came.

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Speaker 1: And and interestingly enough, the anger came because he didn't

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Speaker 1: recognize me. Right, I'm standing there, and this is a

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Speaker 1: person who has occupied so much of my brain for

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Speaker 1: thirty plus years. And he looked right through me as

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Speaker 1: if he didn't I didn't recognize me at all. And

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Speaker 1: I thought, how do you get to have a life?

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Speaker 1: How dare you get to have a life? And I

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Speaker 1: have to live with this thing that she left me,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and that I'm from the Bronx. Those

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Speaker 1: f bombs come fast? Did you say something to me?

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Speaker 1: I didn't, I mean came up in my spirit. And

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Speaker 1: the funny thing, my mother was there, and I was

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Speaker 1: like frozen in place because it's like several several questions

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Speaker 1: right now, like what do I do? I just didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to do. I saw my mother said I

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Speaker 1: want to go, and my mother saw and and she

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Speaker 1: realized it was happening. She put it together quickly. And

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Speaker 1: then my mother also, Mama bear. I knew she wanted

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Speaker 1: to do something too, But what do you say you

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Speaker 1: did this to my child thirty five years ago? You know?

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Speaker 1: Like it was just it was overwhelming, and we left,

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Speaker 1: But it was also the moment in the car right home.

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Speaker 1: We just got in a taxi and we left everybody.

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Speaker 1: We left our family, everybody, and we got in a

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Speaker 1: taxi and I was crying, and I was like, why

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Speaker 1: didn't he even recognize me? You know? And and and

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Speaker 1: my mother said something to the effect of because he

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Speaker 1: tried to break you, and he can't recognize you because

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Speaker 1: you turned out to be a smart, beautiful, accopli paipable

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Speaker 1: you know. And and it was really a turning point

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Speaker 1: for me because I thought, no, he didn't win, I won,

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Speaker 1: right you did? You know? I wanted to ask you

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Speaker 1: about the hashtag me too, which really took off in

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Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, and some in some ways it was

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Speaker 1: co optive it by famous white women. Well what reaction?

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Speaker 1: They were very nice white ladies. Um. Well, and I

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Speaker 1: usually I'd like to clarify this because the truth of

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Speaker 1: the matter is I'm being funny. But the truth of

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Speaker 1: the matter is the women who came forward in in

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Speaker 1: both of those articles talking about Harvey Weinstein didn't know

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Speaker 1: who I was at all, and also did not know

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Speaker 1: what the risk was they were going to take. They

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Speaker 1: didn't know what the outcome was going to be. They

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Speaker 1: didn't do it to start a movement. They thought they

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Speaker 1: were gonna be blackballed. A lot of them. They thought

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Speaker 1: they may not work again. And so there's a there's

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Speaker 1: a kind of a fine line, I think, because so

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Speaker 1: many black women have experienced that that they're being erased

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Speaker 1: and being removed from their work. There's a hedge of

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Speaker 1: protection around this that a lot of people are like,

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Speaker 1: you won't take this from her. But I think two

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Speaker 1: things happened simultaneously. It wasn't the women, And I want

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Speaker 1: to be really clear about this because as what the

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Speaker 1: world will do is find new reasons to put women

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Speaker 1: against each other. Right, Yeah, it wasn't the women who

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Speaker 1: came out and co opted the movement and said where

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Speaker 1: we have the metub movement now. It was the media

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Speaker 1: who who looked around and said, well, I got I

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Speaker 1: don't know, a list stef celebrity over here, and I

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Speaker 1: got forty four year old black lady from the Bronx

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Speaker 1: over here. It was the media who constantly kept bringing

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Speaker 1: the story back to them. And this is the evidence

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Speaker 1: that you know that it wasn't a co opting me

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Speaker 1: because the media doesn't even talk about them anymore. Now.

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Speaker 1: We we shifted from talking about the famous white women

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Speaker 1: to talking about the famous white men. The or the

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Speaker 1: men period. Who's who? You know, what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: in their lives. How are they going to recover? You know, well,

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Speaker 1: they can, they come back. It's it's about their redemption.

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Speaker 1: It's not even most people could not. If I said

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Speaker 1: to this audience right now, can you name me ten

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Speaker 1: people who were affected by me too? And they be

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Speaker 1: Weinstein Ward, Charlie Rose, that or not, they've run off

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Speaker 1: the list. If I say name me ten of their survivors,

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Speaker 1: you can't do it right. And that's that's the part

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Speaker 1: why I'm careful about the idea of co opting. Those

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Speaker 1: women came forward to bravely tell their story unaware of

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Speaker 1: what would happen. The media loves white women. They love

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, so I write about that in my book,

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Speaker 1: you know, like missing White Women's syndrome. And the truth

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Speaker 1: of the matter is we all feed into it. We

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Speaker 1: want to know. These same celebrities are the ones. We

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Speaker 1: want to know what they're wearing, who they're marrying, you know,

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Speaker 1: who they're dating, who they're divorcing. We want to know

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Speaker 1: about their lives when we eat up and consume everything

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Speaker 1: about their lives. So now this huge story comes out,

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Speaker 1: this sealacious story, and the media focused on the salaciousness

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Speaker 1: of it. But really, the me too movement is because

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Speaker 1: twelve million people responded to a hashtag in twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: It's not because of you know whoever, a list celebrity,

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Speaker 1: those people who are part of it, And honestly, it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have stayed a story if they weren't a part

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Speaker 1: of it. So I I get why people say there

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Speaker 1: was co option, and I just want to I just

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Speaker 1: don't want this to be about women fighting women, right

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Speaker 1: because it's it's more so about us fighting a system

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Speaker 1: that continues to perpetuate the same stories and stereotypes and

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Speaker 1: ideas and print. You know, That's what it's about, and

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Speaker 1: I fight that every day. Well, let's talk about those systems.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's been four years since you know this,

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Speaker 1: this huge wave of support for me too, many more

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Speaker 1: years since you started using the expression. But have those

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Speaker 1: systems been um broken down? Have they up? I can

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Speaker 1: tell that's a no. UM know. Has had there been changes?

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Speaker 1: And what positive changes have you seen? Because things haven't

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Speaker 1: things changed a little bit? A little bit? Sure? No? Sure,

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm not even sure I think that. Look,

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Speaker 1: I used to be the person who was begging people

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Speaker 1: to put me on their agenda, like Hey, can I

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Speaker 1: get five minutes at the end of it's gonna just

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Speaker 1: talk to the people. Right. So it's never in my

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Speaker 1: wildest dreams that I think we could have a sustained

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Speaker 1: national or international dialogue about sexual violence. And that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: We've been talking about this for four years. People talk

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Speaker 1: about things like, you know, I think about Cuomo stepping now, right.

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Speaker 1: What has happened is that people look at watching the

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Speaker 1: me too movement like a spectator sport. So it's like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: the governor of New York stept down, that's one for

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Speaker 1: the me too movement. Oh Bill Cosby got out of jail. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's one one away from the mean. It's not. That's

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Speaker 1: not how it is, right, We're not taking score. What

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Speaker 1: has changed is five years ago, a woman could not

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Speaker 1: have come forward and had the kind of investigation that

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Speaker 1: Tiss James did that led to Pomo stepping down. We

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Speaker 1: can never control the outcome. We can't control the people

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Speaker 1: that cause harm or the perpetrators. Clomo could have just

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Speaker 1: said I'm not stepping down, you know. Uh. Weinstein could

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Speaker 1: have been found not guilty. We can't control that. What

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Speaker 1: I'm most invested in is the fact that we are

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Speaker 1: having trials that we're having investigations that people can come

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Speaker 1: forward and said, listen, I have been harmed by this person,

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Speaker 1: and we take it seriously. It's not about believing all women.

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Speaker 1: It's not about believing all accusations. It's about missing to them.

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Speaker 1: We are coming out of we we have such short memories, right,

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Speaker 1: you've done this a long time, four or five years ago,

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Speaker 1: ten years ago, these things just went away. In some

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Speaker 1: cases they still are, oh absolutely absolutely. But also there

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Speaker 1: was a time period where these things would come up,

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Speaker 1: and the first line of defense were the questions, right, well,

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Speaker 1: what were you wearing? Why were you there? Well, he's

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Speaker 1: a good guy, are you sure. Maybe it's a misunderstanding

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Speaker 1: when we say believe survivors, it is because that is

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Speaker 1: what we were up against a decade ago, half a

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Speaker 1: decade ago. Now what people say is, wow, we need

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Speaker 1: to look into this. Right, So you know, policies have changed,

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Speaker 1: laws have changed. We're coming up on five years next year.

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Speaker 1: What I really want people to think about is what

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Speaker 1: has me to made possible? Not the scores that we're keeping,

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Speaker 1: and not has it solved everything. That's not going to

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Speaker 1: solve anything. We've been this is a decades and decades

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Speaker 1: and decades old issues. There were the sexual violence in

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Speaker 1: the Bible right like this, it's just not gonna go

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Speaker 1: away from the hashtag. It's just not that, it's not magic.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. I want to ask you before

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Speaker 1: we finish up, and I just love talking to Toronto.

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Speaker 1: You're just such a force. It's just amazing, honestly, Um,

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Speaker 1: got big cheers up there. Um. You know, I had

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Speaker 1: to ask you about Times Up, which was a separate

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Speaker 1: movement but I think spurred by me to to to

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Speaker 1: fight for gender equality in the workforce, and that whole

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Speaker 1: thing seemed to have imploded because well what Toronto, so

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Speaker 1: like the board, the board all left and the two

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Speaker 1: founders were advising Governor Cuomo on how to react or

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Speaker 1: to how to attack one of the accusers. I mean

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Speaker 1: not you know, to bad mouth one of the accusers.

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Speaker 1: What happened there? Well, first, people do this all that

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Speaker 1: they complate me to in Times of the right, that's

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Speaker 1: that's I just want I want the people to know

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Speaker 1: it's not me. But also the thing that's this unfortunate

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Speaker 1: is kind of what I was saying about the co

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Speaker 1: option earlier. Times Up isn't a young organization that was

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Speaker 1: trying to attack an old problem and they were trying

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Speaker 1: to do it with new twols and new ideas. And

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Speaker 1: I think with a lot of people, and there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of powerful people involved. And I think that what

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Speaker 1: people forget is that sexual violence is about power. It's

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Speaker 1: about the co option of I mean, the the corruption

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Speaker 1: of power, right, And it's the in the unteched accumulation

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Speaker 1: of power, and people are enamored by that, just like

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, if you think about Matt Lowry,

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Speaker 1: we only need to talk about him in your book.

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Speaker 1: I'm quite sure that with people or women around him,

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Speaker 1: who whispered in his ear, who gave him advice, who

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Speaker 1: thought it's more important to protect this person than it

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Speaker 1: is to protect the people. And I think it's the

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Speaker 1: same thing that happens. We see it over and over again.

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Speaker 1: As long as we are invested in the patriarchy, we

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Speaker 1: will default for the patriarchy. And it's just what happens, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think in a case of times up people

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Speaker 1: made mistakes. I don't think we should hold indicte the

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Speaker 1: whole organization. Now. I think that organization did a lot

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Speaker 1: of good work it's continuing to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: good work. They're doing all of the soul searching, and

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Speaker 1: you know, they change leadership, what have you. But it's

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Speaker 1: the same old thing. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: if you're a woman or a man, doesn't matter if

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Speaker 1: you're a democratic or Republican. Patriarchy is insidious, and it

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Speaker 1: is we will all raise and socialize in it. And

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Speaker 1: so I think our default is to protect powerful men.

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Speaker 1: And as long as that keeps happening and we keep

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Speaker 1: default into that, you cannot You cannot change something like

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Speaker 1: as as as big and broad and and insidious and

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Speaker 1: sexual violence as Yeah, with with the same tools, you

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Speaker 1: just can't do it. So if you're trying to use

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Speaker 1: power to take down power, it's just not it's just

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Speaker 1: not gonna work. We have to rethink the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: tear the whole thing down. This is why I'm saying

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Speaker 1: it's not partisan. Right. A lot of the players that

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Speaker 1: we saw moved out of the like administrations, the government

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Speaker 1: administrations and moved into the private sector. And I wrote

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Speaker 1: this thing on Twitter that was not popular with a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, But I'm like, you can't be a democrat. First,

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Speaker 1: you can't be a Republican first, right. If you want

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Speaker 1: to fight this thing in a real way, you have

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Speaker 1: to be a human being first God. The reason why

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Speaker 1: this keeps happening over and over and over again is

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Speaker 1: because we prioritize the same thing in Watson, we priorities

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Speaker 1: power and money and and you know, those kind of

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Speaker 1: things over humanity. At the end of the day, this

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Speaker 1: is people, the people who experienced the violence or are

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Speaker 1: trying to prevent the violence. We want people to have

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Speaker 1: the right to walk through life with their dignity and

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Speaker 1: their humanity intact. I should be able to show up

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Speaker 1: at my job, my church, my my home, anywhere with

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Speaker 1: my dignity intact, with my humanity attact. And when people

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Speaker 1: are harassed, sexual harassment chips away at that. Sexual violence

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Speaker 1: also chips away at that. And so we have to

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Speaker 1: think about this very differently. We have to approach it

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Speaker 1: very differently, the same things that we did before. Putting

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Speaker 1: a soul and so on the White House is not

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Speaker 1: going to change it. Taking a soul and so out

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Speaker 1: of the White House is not going to change it. Right,

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Speaker 1: this is about something bigger than politics, and I think

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Speaker 1: people just keep getting caught in that Oh, we just

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Speaker 1: gotta we just gotta know, we gotta tear the whole

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Speaker 1: thing down. Well mean, we got this. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: love this audience. This has been my favorite audience. Don't

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Speaker 1: tell the other cities. But but you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have so many smart, engage people who really care about,

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Speaker 1: you know, making things better here. So what can the

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Speaker 1: average person do to kind of help support this movement

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Speaker 1: and keep it? Okay, I'm glad you asked. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go back to what I said. This is a movement

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00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: with people. Don't you throw a hashtag in front of

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00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: a word and people call it a movement. I appreciate

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00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: the hashtag because it amplified the movement. But movements are

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Speaker 1: made by people everyday. People right, We would not have

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Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, We would

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00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: not have so many things that movement gave us if

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00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 1: people didn't join those movements. So figure out a thing,

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00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: whatever the thing you're most comfortable with. You can donate money,

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00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: you can donate time. But the other part. We created

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00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: something called Act two because people always like, well, what

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00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: do I do learn about? This is an issue? Sexual

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00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: violence is a social justice issue. We are fighting for

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00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: survival justice, and so everyday people need to And the

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00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: reason why we had something like the Wine Stained Verdict

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00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: is because people finally are understanding the depth and breath

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00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: of what this does to your body, to your person.

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00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: Right educate your self. If you can't volunteer, if you

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00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: can't pick up a sign and go out and protest,

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00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: it's okay. We don't need everybody to do that. I

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00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: need doctor's, lawyers, dentists, accountants, receptionists, clerks. I need you

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00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,239
Speaker 1: to understand what sexual violence does, how much of it

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00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: is around you. Talk to people around you, talk to

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00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: your peers. It's not just women, it's not just men,

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00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: it's people across the gender spectrum. Educate yourself about what

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00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: this is and how it impacts your life, and then

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00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 1: find your place in it, because there is definitely a

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00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: place for everybody in this Read a book, listen to

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00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 1: a podcast, listen to an article, but be engaged. Don't

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00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: just say, oh, I wonder who they're gonna meet to next.

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00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 1: Stop making it a verb that's annoying. It's not a verb.

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00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: It is a declaration that people whose lives have been

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00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: deeply impacted by something that is awful say to try

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00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: to reclaim some of their humanity and we just need

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00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: you to. We can't do that alone. And so that's

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00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: the call to action I put out to people. We

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00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: are saying those of us who are saying me to

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00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: needs you to act you Wow well by the way, um,

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Speaker 1: I just want to mention Toronto's daughter is here. She

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00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: must be so proud of you, Rona, and I think

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00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: this conversation resonated with a lot of people in this audience,

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00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: one of my friends in particular. I think she has

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00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: taken great comfort in some of the words you've spoken tonight.

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Speaker 1: Toronto Burke, thank you, Thank you, than awesomes Fine, thank you,

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00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: thank you. Thank you all so much for listening to

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00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: this bonus episode of Next Question featuring the incredible Toronto Burke.

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00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: Until next time, I'm Katie Curic. Next Question with Katie

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00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: Kurik is a production of I Heart Media and Katie

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00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: Kuric Media. The executive producers Army Katie Curic and Courtney Litz.

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00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements,

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00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: Adriana Fasio, and Emily Pinto. The show is edited and

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00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: mixed by Derrick Clements for more information about today's episode,

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00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: or to sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call,

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00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: go to Katie currek dot com. You can also find

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00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: me at Katie curic on Instagram and all my social

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00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: media channels. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit

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00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you

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00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows,