WEBVTT - Does the System Serve Us? | Angela Rye SoloPod 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.720 Native Landpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:11.440 Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome home, Everybody. 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.800 This is Angela Rai. I'm your host and a co 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.960 host of Native Lampod. Today we are doing something a 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.799 little different. We spent a lot of time talking on 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.880 the podcast over the last several months about apathy and 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.800 the place that it has in our community, around voting 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.720 in particular, and then turnout on the last election. I 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:38.080 think Andrew and I got into a discussion about who 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.159 won the election last time, and my argument was that 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:44.919 since more than ninety million people sat at home of 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.520 voting age, that they are the ones who in fact 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:52.680 won the election. Now, I don't want to just focus 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.280 our attention on apathy of whether or not somebody voted 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.240 in the past, whether or not they voted in twenty 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.360 twenty four or before. I really want to focus on 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.559 how apathy is showing up for us now and whether 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.920 or not there's enough of a wake up call for 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.200 us to do something different in this moment. So today 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:17.840 we have joining us someone who Lolo knows. I believe 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.240 his name is Reginald Henderson. He's an entrepreneur, a community 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:27.200 advocate and facilitator from Dayton, Ohio, and so in amendment, 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:32.720 we will spend some time talking to about his involvement 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.720 in the community, about ways that he thinks we should 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.120 be leaning in outside of voting, and really trying to 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.200 figure out a path forward for all of us, for 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.080 all people of color, particularly in a system that some 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.880 of us feel like doesn't frankly serve us enough. So 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.280 do you engage, do you engage partially? Do you not 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.320 engage at all? Those are some of the questions that 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.720 I want us to talk through as we deal frankly 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:00.560 with the fight of our lives. So with that, if 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.559 we can invite reginald up, I would love to start saversation. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:07.880 Your headphones in. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.880 I do have the actually Vijus one dead, That's why 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.079 can I grab a different pair of headphones? Is that 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:15.720 all right? Yeah? 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.560 You can lock him off for just a second, Nick, 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.520 and let me just keep going. Thank you. So yes, 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:24.400 I think that one of the things that we're seeing. 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.359 We're doing the State of the People Power tour right now. 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.720 We've been to Atlanta, we have been to Raleigh and 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.440 to Durham in North Carolina, and we have also been 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:41.079 to Birmingham, Alabama, and in this on these different tour stops, 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.640 we're meeting all kinds of people. I talked about some 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:47.200 folks that we met in Atlanta, including a teacher who 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.560 I'm desperately trying to find. I found some folks that 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.440 are able to help her. She was talking about living 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.239 out of her car. And we met someone named ray 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:02.600 Lewis who was formerly incarcerated in Birmingham. He talked about 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.600 his journey and what he's doing now to ensure that 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.119 young folks don't meet the same fate. When I tell 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.200 you all that ray Lewis and his remarks are penetrating 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.600 the hearts and minds of people all over this country. 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.480 It wasn't just mine. Dewana Thompson and I were standing 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.440 next to each other near the stage sobbing. His words 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:26.200 impacted us severely, but they're also impacting many others. When 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.480 we think about what this tour is really all about, 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.320 it is not just to meet people in their apathy, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.160 because everybody's not apathetic. It's not just to meet people 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.360 in their exhaustion, because everybody's not exhausted. But it's to 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:43.640 meet people across the intersections of life where we all 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:48.320 find ourselves sometimes overlapping, sometimes not overlapping at all. As 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.880 a part of our coalition right now, there are organizations 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.520 who have never worked together. There are organizations that are 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.200 tired of working together. Is organizations that got mad at 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.760 each other and fell out in nineteen ninety seven. We're 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.520 doing all of that. I think it's really really important 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:05.240 for us to understand why this work matters. And when 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.480 you hear about stories like Ray Lewis in Alabama, you 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:13.600 understand why. So when he's talking about, you know, gun 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.200 violence in the community, not really knowing his father, all 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.520 of these different things that many of us have as 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.359 our personal experiences, as some others of us, me included, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.800 don't have in our personal experiences. I had a conversation 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.719 with my friend and brother Wallow earlier, who was talking 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.479 about the ways in which sometimes we talk past each other, 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.720 because the folks who are on TV making decisions and 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.800 policy recommendations about what folks like Ray and Wallow need 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.160 have never had a conversation with Ray and Wallow. So 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.440 those are the kinds of barriers that we're trying to 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:52.000 dismantle and ensure that we are pushing through on this tour. Today, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.360 I'm happy to report that our black Papers, vertical of 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.960 the State of the People Power Tour in our Collection 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.200 at Large has released the first five papers. They're available 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:08.760 on State of THEPPL dot com slash black Papers. These 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:13.200 are policy ideas on everything from education to entrepreneurship. We 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.000 want you all to get you to have your voices 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.400 heard as we get ready for our journey leading up 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:21.280 to Juneteenth in Baltimore. We want to hear from you. 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.320 What policy areas did we miss, What areas do you 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.440 feel like we're not really scratching the surface on or 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:32.320 we don't have your opinion represented, your recommendations represented. We 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.080 want to hear from you. We want to hear from 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.400 you at these various tour stops. We have New Orleans 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:41.600 coming up on Thursday and Friday. Jasmine Crockett, a tremendous congresswoman, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.200 will join us on the ground in New Orleans. D 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.440 One is back. I'm hoping he's gonna he got another 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.640 rat for us, so too, and we have many others. 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:54.880 B Simonas coming Meal Washington and Gary Chambers have worked 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:59.320 tirelessly on that tour location. In New Orleans, we have 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.599 an we have a partnership y'all with Operation Restoration, that 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:08.039 is giving ten thousand dollars to folks who have a 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:12.880 demonstrated need a cutoff notice provided for utility bills to 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.360 be paid for. Right, We're going to cover utility bills 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.680 as long as we have the resources to do that, 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.520 and people will be selected based specifically on need. We 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.320 don't want to run a foul of any rules or 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.440 laws in Louisiana. So with that, I want to try 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.160 to see again if Reginald is back to join us 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:35.400 and we can continue our conversation. So Reginald, I just 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.400 wanted to say, first of all, thank you so much 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.640 for making the time. Our conversation last week on the 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:46.240 podcast was about apathy and people who didn't vote in 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.840 this last election and why. So I do want to 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:50.520 start there, but at some point we got to move 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.400 past the election figure out where we go from here. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.760 But I do want to start there and hopefully we 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:57.479 can get through with no echo. 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:03.960 So they did not vote last election, as well as 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.680 the election beforehand. Because I did a lot of studying 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:12.280 on black revolutionary politics in the midst of COVID and 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.360 before that I had been very engaged and just what 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.640 I had been learning about the systems, about the ways 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.600 in which it has negatively impacted not just Black people, 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.840 but people at large. Tried to find different ways in 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.480 which to be engaged, and in those readings and in 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.520 that study, I was able to find those different ways. 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.400 And while I haven't been as active in those ways, 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.240 I am familiar now and can move accordingly. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:48.080 When you talk about black revolutionary engagement, I'm curious to 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:53.520 know how you see yourself changing the system. Now. If 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.400 voting isn't the apparatus, what is the apparatus that you're 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.960 using to support societal change, particularly for black folk. 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.520 So I think that all change really starts at the 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.280 home or on a very small level. And so the 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.880 stuff that I'm doing, you know, in the community, as 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:15.080 far as being advisors on youth programs or you know, 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:20.200 helping business owners build their businesses, or even if it's 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:25.040 just giving somebody who's homeless money or whatever on the street. 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.360 When it comes down to changing the world, I think 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.880 we have to first look inward and then work outwards. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.079 So I'm not really looking to change society. I don't 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.920 think society is going to change because it took us 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.720 over you know, three hundred four hundred years to get here, 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.120 and so it's going to take us just as much 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.080 time to get out. So I'm just looking to change 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.360 my community, one person at a time, if possible. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:51.160 If it takes that long to change society, three hundred 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.440 four hundred years, what do you think is that the way? Like, 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.840 what's the means to the end? When you consider the change? 0:08:57.880 --> 0:08:59.400 What is what's the means to the end? 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:05.960 For me? I think we have to reevaluate the value 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.760 system that we have worldwide, and it's capitalist structure that 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:16.840 we are living in. It's all about greed, individuality and individualism, 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:21.520 not even individuality greed. What can I do to win 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.760 for myself regardless of what anybody else is doing? And 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.880 I think if we reevaluate the values to be more communalistic, 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.640 to be more about partnership, to be more about a 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:35.560 cooperative economics, I think we can find models that already exist, 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.760 but models that would propel us into a future that 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:40.760 is more equable. 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.280 I hear what you're saying. I guess my question would 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.160 be when you when you consider the fact that you 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.839 work to give money to the homeless, when you work 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.160 to provide support for youth, programs when you work to 0:09:56.080 --> 0:10:01.720 provide infrastructure and support for small businesses. I remember being 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.880 in law school and thinking, Okay, I can change circumstances 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.520 one client at a time if I go into the courtroom, 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.440 But if I go into policy making, I can change 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.719 circumstances for a community on a macro level. So when 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:22.200 you balance your micro level contributions versus macro level policy changes, 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.560 talk to me about why you wouldn't see the need 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.560 for that, Like if a kids program like Headstart is cut, 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.479 which is on the chopping block right now, if homeless 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.280 programs are being cut, those grants are being stripped away, 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.360 and people will rely on people like your twenty dollars 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.880 or your one hundred dollars to buy them meals that 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.680 week more so than if they had an opportunity to 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.440 go and live somewhere, which is a part of a 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:49.280 policy idea. How do we create macro level change for 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.600 these folks if not through policy changes. 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:57.960 Yeah. So, I think that policies are just rules, and 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.040 rules are made by people with power to control people 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:05.360 who don't have power. And I also don't agree that 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.200 because of policy is put into place that is actually 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.320 going to be executed and so no matter what policy 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.800 is in place, if the people who are executing the 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.840 policy are not following it or are not being punishing 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.439 when they don't, then any policy that's made is kind 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.840 of futile. And so when I think about the macro 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.400 level changes that could happen, I think we have to 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:33.000 look first at the economic system that is funding the policies, 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:40.600 the political regimes, the systems and institutions which exists. And 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.480 you got to look at these corporate corporate businesses who 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.840 are fueling a lot of the activity. And so if 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.720 we could find a way too, and I talked about 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:56.080 capitalism earlier, you know, who controls the means of production, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.960 who controls controls the means of producing goods, and we 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.880 can reevaluate at on a large scale, then maybe we 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:04.800 can come to something that makes a little bit more 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.840 sense for the general masses. But just policy I don't 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:13.520 think has enough strength to be able to have real 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.319 and sustainable change long term. 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.840 Or have you been made aware of like the drinking 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:27.640 water crisis in Flint and Jackson, those are policy based issues. 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:33.720 When you look at Alabama and the rule that was 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.440 just rolled back around or when they had federally that 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.400 is a policy based issue. When we look at you 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.320 have friends that have student loan debt, those student loan debt. 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.640 Now the federal government has just been allowed to go 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.319 after all of these student loan borrowers who are currently 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:59.240 in default. That's a policy based issue. Do you support reparations? No, 0:12:59.400 --> 0:12:59.720 not in a. 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.480 Way it is traditionally talked about, and just to comment 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.440 on what you were talking about. While those are policy 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.800 made by policy, they're also backed by I think the 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.960 real change happens in the people. The real change happens 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.880 in the system. The real change happens in the institutions 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.199 that exist, not in the policies. Because we see it's 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.320 a legal you see every day that you know, black 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.559 men specifically or black people are getting killed by police 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.040 every day. Yet the punishment or whatever is happened, the 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.760 repercussion of that does not look the same across the board. 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:34.840 So even if there was a policy made, or if 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.840 whatever policy existed, like I keep saying, like I said before, 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:42.200 the execution is not consistent then or it is working 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.480 for a certain entity or certain group, then it's going 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:46.560 to be skewed every time. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.680 So how does the execution change? What do you think 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.240 that like, if you're going to say, like, oh, well, 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.000 this is not across the board the same. The reason 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.679 why it's not across the board the same is because 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.800 some folks, especially of police officers, who are killing at 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:17.240 the municipal or state level, those policies dictate the outcome 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.840 of their punishment. Just like federally, when there was this 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.480 law enforcement database that now this administration has overturned and 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.040 completely gotten rid of, So there's no federal place to 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.680 hold law law enforcement accountable and to see where they 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.600 have run a foul of the rules, been abusive, or 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.840 killed in another jurisdiction. That database is gone a policy. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.320 So when you're saying, well, the execution is flawed, I 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.160 agree with you. The execution is flawed. How do we 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:46.680 change the execution. 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.040 By changing the values and the culture of the people, 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.840 Like we have a fear based economy, a that's like 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.320 our fear losing my life, or our fear not being 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.280 able to pay rent, or our fear not being able 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.600 to have food or send my kids to a decent school. 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.840 Like we live in a fear based system where I'm 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.680 scared of the next person because everybody now is allowed 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.400 to have a gun or this person over here has 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.280 all the clothes and I don't have any like it's 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.560 so and jealousy comes in play too, But fear, I 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.800 think has to be eliminated by creating real conversations amongst 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.560 everyday people. That's why I said it all has to 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.920 start at home, which you're teaching your kids, what you're 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.240 teaching the people that are around you in your community. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.720 Because if we can't have a value system that's based 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:39.640 on trust, that is based on you know, mutual respect, 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:45.920 that is based on cooperation, then you get into situations 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.640 where a policy may come into place and nobody is 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:53.760 really abiding by that policy or even paying the tipst. 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:59.000 When you talk about a value system that's put into place, 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.680 how would you see that value systems being spread beyond 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:03.160 your home? 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:11.800 That's a good question right now. I would say it 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.320 would have to be dominated in the media. If we 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:19.280 wanted to be mass massly spread. It can't be co opted, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.920 so it would have to I don't know, it would 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.200 have to be coming from some pretty serious people with 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.360 a lot of funds back and once again, corporations run 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.720 the media. But if you want to reach the masses 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.520 in any way, I think social media, digital media, radio, 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.400 whatever those are to those places will have to be 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.440 especially the influencers will have to be pushing that agenda, 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.160 pushing that narrative. And if not that way, then the 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.800 organizing amongst the masses will have to happen in a 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.000 major way that we haven't really seen since the sixties. 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.040 So what's interesting, Reginald is you said that it would 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.080 need to be spread through the media, and you would 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.760 need a lot of support. And how would you quantify 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:00.320 that support? 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.200 Quantify as far as like whether dollars or time or. 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.200 You know, the number of people who you would want 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:13.120 to support this policy, this value system. How would you 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.720 shore up support, How would you ensure that people have 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.080 bought into your value system? 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.440 Yeah, you would have to quantify. It would be about 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.720 the numbers. This is we're playing a numbers game for real, 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.159 Like you mentioned that ninety million people who do not 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.159 who did not vote, like this is this is a 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.119 masses game, a lot versus the many, I mean the 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:36.679 few versus the mini. And so in order to spread 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:38.399 that there ask the question one more time. 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.159 I'm sorry, So this this is what I'm going to 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.720 answer it for you. What you have backed into, Reginald 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.840 is you need buy in from the masses for a 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.199 value system. The way that you would determine if you 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.359 had buy in is people signing on to a pledge 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.400 agreeing that they would take that value system into their 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.080 home or their community. Oh you want to fight that 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:02.760 because you know where this is going, go ahead. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.560 I wouldn't say so. It's more about that action. Like 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.680 you can put anything you want on paper, you can 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.359 put it on somebody refrigerator, you can make them sign 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.560 a contract. But that don't mean I want to pay 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.399 this bill. That don't mean I want to stick with 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.080 this company. That don't mean anything really if it's on paper, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.639 it's about that action. And so if going back to metrics, 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:23.359 how do you quantify it? That's where that's where you 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:27.600 were acting. It would have to be I can't. I 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:28.840 don't have all the answers, So I'm not going to 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.000 sit here and say I do. But it would have 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.080 to be actual engagement and ways outside of voting, and 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.760 ways outside of the traditional system. And we will have 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.600 to identify what those ways are so that people can 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.280 know what exactly to be doing to help move the 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.760 needle forward. Because I feel like voting is like the 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.600 last thing like the last resort. Really, it's so many 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.840 more ways on what you completely be completely politically engaged, 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:53.919 and so we have to name those and then like 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.000 have a system on which people can you know, say, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:18:59.760 baby are actively participating. 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.359 I couldn't agree with you more. I think voting is 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.719 the most That is the minimum threshold, that should be 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.040 the baseline thing, and after that we have to engage 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.920 far beyond that. So right now we're rolling out these 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:17.240 black papers that are ideas and recommendations for how black 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:22.040 people can be sustaining ourselves moving as a collective. And yes, 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.760 it encourages policy changes because whether we like it or not, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.639 policy impacts our day to day all the time. Whether 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.080 we engage and we call it an elected official, whether 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:34.879 we told them to vote a certain way or not, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.359 these things impact us every single day. So when you 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:40.680 talked it about a value system, I loved it because 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.000 even the Black Panther Party had a ten point plan, 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.520 their buy in was secured by the number of people 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.320 who read it, supported it, and moved in accordance with 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.600 that plan. Whether we proactively vote in a system that 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.800 we don't like or not, everything is governed by politics 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.520 and policy. Every there's no way we can get away 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:03.959 from it. So in my mind, I would say, we 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.000 can still be building towards the ideal, But how do 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.840 we boycott the thing that is? When we boycott the 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.320 thing that is, we're in harm's way. You said it 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.200 best earlier. You're like, well, all of these things can 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.800 just be thrown out it like with the stroke of 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.080 a pen. Basically, that's what's happening right now. We are 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:26.200 down to defending the fourteenth Amendment, which is birthright citizenship. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.720 It is the very thing that dread Scott died trying 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.600 to ensure that he would have access to that enslaved 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.399 man from Missouri. So when you talk about that, like 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.560 whether or not we're seen as human beings is a 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.480 political and policy based decision, I be damn if I 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.080 let a white person decide that for me. Ever again, right, 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.520 I'm a fight tooth and nail to make sure you 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.080 see my personhood, to make sure you see the person 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.080 that the people in my family, and make sure you 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.800 see the person of the people in the culture. That 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.000 is the least I can do. That is my most 0:20:59.040 --> 0:20:59.919 reasonable service. 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.439 If I could just say, I think one of the 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.800 problems that we have in the society is that the 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.880 measuring stick in which we are measuring ourselves is through 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.560 the lens of whiteness, because we live in a white supremacy, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.040 and so I think as a part of that value system, 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:23.080 we have to learn to have so much confidence in 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:24.560 ourselves that we don't really need. 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.399 And this is where it's gonna get real sticky, because 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:33.760 like you're, you're, you have to literally create people who 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.800 are not create people. You have to commit class suicide, 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.159 political suicide. You would have to like get rid of 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.800 all the things that you know and love because they 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:47.439 are have been like given to us essentially, they have 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.879 been given to us by the people who are empowered, 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.920 to people who have access, to people who have access. 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.840 And until we learn to get until we learned to 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.040 measure ourselves from our own from our own stick, we 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.679 always want to be looking at the white rule, the 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.840 white whatever as the way in which we should be going. 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:10.479 But I personally don't agree with that. And then also 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:18.200 the goal is liberation, and I don't think that the 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.200 powers that be on either side have when I say 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.879 either side democratic or republic, has given a convincing enough 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.360 argument to people who don't vote or people who are 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.760 disengaged with the traditional voting system to say, to make 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.040 them feel the urgent call to act. It's so many 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:37.960 things that people are dealing with in a material world 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:40.000 that all of the stuff that they're talking about, the 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.840 political mumbo jumbo that they're talking about, doesn't even hit 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:45.119 home because it doesn't resonate with what I got to 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:46.920 deal with today. And I hear you saying that it 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:51.480 influences us every day, but to a regular person who 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.560 is not connected, we don't really see it. We're just 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:56.800 getting through because that's what we got to do. 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:57.080 You know. 0:22:57.600 --> 0:22:59.320 Today we got to pay our suit the loans. That's 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:01.040 just what it is. To rock with it and not 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:05.200 saying we shouldn't do something about it. But even before 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.000