Speaker 1: Native Landpod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome home, Everybody.
Speaker 1: This is Angela Rai. I'm your host and a co
Speaker 1: host of Native Lampod. Today we are doing something a
Speaker 1: little different. We spent a lot of time talking on
Speaker 1: the podcast over the last several months about apathy and
Speaker 1: the place that it has in our community, around voting
Speaker 1: in particular, and then turnout on the last election. I
Speaker 1: think Andrew and I got into a discussion about who
Speaker 1: won the election last time, and my argument was that
Speaker 1: since more than ninety million people sat at home of
Speaker 1: voting age, that they are the ones who in fact
Speaker 1: won the election. Now, I don't want to just focus
Speaker 1: our attention on apathy of whether or not somebody voted
Speaker 1: in the past, whether or not they voted in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four or before. I really want to focus on
Speaker 1: how apathy is showing up for us now and whether
Speaker 1: or not there's enough of a wake up call for
Speaker 1: us to do something different in this moment. So today
Speaker 1: we have joining us someone who Lolo knows. I believe
Speaker 1: his name is Reginald Henderson. He's an entrepreneur, a community
Speaker 1: advocate and facilitator from Dayton, Ohio, and so in amendment,
Speaker 1: we will spend some time talking to about his involvement
Speaker 1: in the community, about ways that he thinks we should
Speaker 1: be leaning in outside of voting, and really trying to
Speaker 1: figure out a path forward for all of us, for
Speaker 1: all people of color, particularly in a system that some
Speaker 1: of us feel like doesn't frankly serve us enough. So
Speaker 1: do you engage, do you engage partially? Do you not
Speaker 1: engage at all? Those are some of the questions that
Speaker 1: I want us to talk through as we deal frankly
Speaker 1: with the fight of our lives. So with that, if
Speaker 1: we can invite reginald up, I would love to start saversation.
Speaker 1: Your headphones in.
Speaker 2: I do have the actually Vijus one dead, That's why
Speaker 2: can I grab a different pair of headphones? Is that
Speaker 2: all right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You can lock him off for just a second, Nick,
Speaker 1: and let me just keep going. Thank you. So yes,
Speaker 1: I think that one of the things that we're seeing.
Speaker 1: We're doing the State of the People Power tour right now.
Speaker 1: We've been to Atlanta, we have been to Raleigh and
Speaker 1: to Durham in North Carolina, and we have also been
Speaker 1: to Birmingham, Alabama, and in this on these different tour stops,
Speaker 1: we're meeting all kinds of people. I talked about some
Speaker 1: folks that we met in Atlanta, including a teacher who
Speaker 1: I'm desperately trying to find. I found some folks that
Speaker 1: are able to help her. She was talking about living
Speaker 1: out of her car. And we met someone named ray
Speaker 1: Lewis who was formerly incarcerated in Birmingham. He talked about
Speaker 1: his journey and what he's doing now to ensure that
Speaker 1: young folks don't meet the same fate. When I tell
Speaker 1: you all that ray Lewis and his remarks are penetrating
Speaker 1: the hearts and minds of people all over this country.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just mine. Dewana Thompson and I were standing
Speaker 1: next to each other near the stage sobbing. His words
Speaker 1: impacted us severely, but they're also impacting many others. When
Speaker 1: we think about what this tour is really all about,
Speaker 1: it is not just to meet people in their apathy,
Speaker 1: because everybody's not apathetic. It's not just to meet people
Speaker 1: in their exhaustion, because everybody's not exhausted. But it's to
Speaker 1: meet people across the intersections of life where we all
Speaker 1: find ourselves sometimes overlapping, sometimes not overlapping at all. As
Speaker 1: a part of our coalition right now, there are organizations
Speaker 1: who have never worked together. There are organizations that are
Speaker 1: tired of working together. Is organizations that got mad at
Speaker 1: each other and fell out in nineteen ninety seven. We're
Speaker 1: doing all of that. I think it's really really important
Speaker 1: for us to understand why this work matters. And when
Speaker 1: you hear about stories like Ray Lewis in Alabama, you
Speaker 1: understand why. So when he's talking about, you know, gun
Speaker 1: violence in the community, not really knowing his father, all
Speaker 1: of these different things that many of us have as
Speaker 1: our personal experiences, as some others of us, me included,
Speaker 1: don't have in our personal experiences. I had a conversation
Speaker 1: with my friend and brother Wallow earlier, who was talking
Speaker 1: about the ways in which sometimes we talk past each other,
Speaker 1: because the folks who are on TV making decisions and
Speaker 1: policy recommendations about what folks like Ray and Wallow need
Speaker 1: have never had a conversation with Ray and Wallow. So
Speaker 1: those are the kinds of barriers that we're trying to
Speaker 1: dismantle and ensure that we are pushing through on this tour. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm happy to report that our black Papers, vertical of
Speaker 1: the State of the People Power Tour in our Collection
Speaker 1: at Large has released the first five papers. They're available
Speaker 1: on State of THEPPL dot com slash black Papers. These
Speaker 1: are policy ideas on everything from education to entrepreneurship. We
Speaker 1: want you all to get you to have your voices
Speaker 1: heard as we get ready for our journey leading up
Speaker 1: to Juneteenth in Baltimore. We want to hear from you.
Speaker 1: What policy areas did we miss, What areas do you
Speaker 1: feel like we're not really scratching the surface on or
Speaker 1: we don't have your opinion represented, your recommendations represented. We
Speaker 1: want to hear from you. We want to hear from
Speaker 1: you at these various tour stops. We have New Orleans
Speaker 1: coming up on Thursday and Friday. Jasmine Crockett, a tremendous congresswoman,
Speaker 1: will join us on the ground in New Orleans. D
Speaker 1: One is back. I'm hoping he's gonna he got another
Speaker 1: rat for us, so too, and we have many others.
Speaker 1: B Simonas coming Meal Washington and Gary Chambers have worked
Speaker 1: tirelessly on that tour location. In New Orleans, we have
Speaker 1: an we have a partnership y'all with Operation Restoration, that
Speaker 1: is giving ten thousand dollars to folks who have a
Speaker 1: demonstrated need a cutoff notice provided for utility bills to
Speaker 1: be paid for. Right, We're going to cover utility bills
Speaker 1: as long as we have the resources to do that,
Speaker 1: and people will be selected based specifically on need. We
Speaker 1: don't want to run a foul of any rules or
Speaker 1: laws in Louisiana. So with that, I want to try
Speaker 1: to see again if Reginald is back to join us
Speaker 1: and we can continue our conversation. So Reginald, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to say, first of all, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for making the time. Our conversation last week on the
Speaker 1: podcast was about apathy and people who didn't vote in
Speaker 1: this last election and why. So I do want to
Speaker 1: start there, but at some point we got to move
Speaker 1: past the election figure out where we go from here.
Speaker 1: But I do want to start there and hopefully we
Speaker 1: can get through with no echo.
Speaker 2: So they did not vote last election, as well as
Speaker 2: the election beforehand. Because I did a lot of studying
Speaker 2: on black revolutionary politics in the midst of COVID and
Speaker 2: before that I had been very engaged and just what
Speaker 2: I had been learning about the systems, about the ways
Speaker 2: in which it has negatively impacted not just Black people,
Speaker 2: but people at large. Tried to find different ways in
Speaker 2: which to be engaged, and in those readings and in
Speaker 2: that study, I was able to find those different ways.
Speaker 2: And while I haven't been as active in those ways,
Speaker 2: I am familiar now and can move accordingly.
Speaker 1: When you talk about black revolutionary engagement, I'm curious to
Speaker 1: know how you see yourself changing the system. Now. If
Speaker 1: voting isn't the apparatus, what is the apparatus that you're
Speaker 1: using to support societal change, particularly for black folk.
Speaker 2: So I think that all change really starts at the
Speaker 2: home or on a very small level. And so the
Speaker 2: stuff that I'm doing, you know, in the community, as
Speaker 2: far as being advisors on youth programs or you know,
Speaker 2: helping business owners build their businesses, or even if it's
Speaker 2: just giving somebody who's homeless money or whatever on the street.
Speaker 2: When it comes down to changing the world, I think
Speaker 2: we have to first look inward and then work outwards.
Speaker 2: So I'm not really looking to change society. I don't
Speaker 2: think society is going to change because it took us
Speaker 2: over you know, three hundred four hundred years to get here,
Speaker 2: and so it's going to take us just as much
Speaker 2: time to get out. So I'm just looking to change
Speaker 2: my community, one person at a time, if possible.
Speaker 1: If it takes that long to change society, three hundred
Speaker 1: four hundred years, what do you think is that the way? Like,
Speaker 1: what's the means to the end? When you consider the change?
Speaker 1: What is what's the means to the end?
Speaker 2: For me? I think we have to reevaluate the value
Speaker 2: system that we have worldwide, and it's capitalist structure that
Speaker 2: we are living in. It's all about greed, individuality and individualism,
Speaker 2: not even individuality greed. What can I do to win
Speaker 2: for myself regardless of what anybody else is doing? And
Speaker 2: I think if we reevaluate the values to be more communalistic,
Speaker 2: to be more about partnership, to be more about a
Speaker 2: cooperative economics, I think we can find models that already exist,
Speaker 2: but models that would propel us into a future that
Speaker 2: is more equable.
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. I guess my question would
Speaker 1: be when you when you consider the fact that you
Speaker 1: work to give money to the homeless, when you work
Speaker 1: to provide support for youth, programs when you work to
Speaker 1: provide infrastructure and support for small businesses. I remember being
Speaker 1: in law school and thinking, Okay, I can change circumstances
Speaker 1: one client at a time if I go into the courtroom,
Speaker 1: But if I go into policy making, I can change
Speaker 1: circumstances for a community on a macro level. So when
Speaker 1: you balance your micro level contributions versus macro level policy changes,
Speaker 1: talk to me about why you wouldn't see the need
Speaker 1: for that, Like if a kids program like Headstart is cut,
Speaker 1: which is on the chopping block right now, if homeless
Speaker 1: programs are being cut, those grants are being stripped away,
Speaker 1: and people will rely on people like your twenty dollars
Speaker 1: or your one hundred dollars to buy them meals that
Speaker 1: week more so than if they had an opportunity to
Speaker 1: go and live somewhere, which is a part of a
Speaker 1: policy idea. How do we create macro level change for
Speaker 1: these folks if not through policy changes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I think that policies are just rules, and
Speaker 2: rules are made by people with power to control people
Speaker 2: who don't have power. And I also don't agree that
Speaker 2: because of policy is put into place that is actually
Speaker 2: going to be executed and so no matter what policy
Speaker 2: is in place, if the people who are executing the
Speaker 2: policy are not following it or are not being punishing
Speaker 2: when they don't, then any policy that's made is kind
Speaker 2: of futile. And so when I think about the macro
Speaker 2: level changes that could happen, I think we have to
Speaker 2: look first at the economic system that is funding the policies,
Speaker 2: the political regimes, the systems and institutions which exists. And
Speaker 2: you got to look at these corporate corporate businesses who
Speaker 2: are fueling a lot of the activity. And so if
Speaker 2: we could find a way too, and I talked about
Speaker 2: capitalism earlier, you know, who controls the means of production,
Speaker 2: who controls controls the means of producing goods, and we
Speaker 2: can reevaluate at on a large scale, then maybe we
Speaker 2: can come to something that makes a little bit more
Speaker 2: sense for the general masses. But just policy I don't
Speaker 2: think has enough strength to be able to have real
Speaker 2: and sustainable change long term.
Speaker 1: Or have you been made aware of like the drinking
Speaker 1: water crisis in Flint and Jackson, those are policy based issues.
Speaker 1: When you look at Alabama and the rule that was
Speaker 1: just rolled back around or when they had federally that
Speaker 1: is a policy based issue. When we look at you
Speaker 1: have friends that have student loan debt, those student loan debt.
Speaker 1: Now the federal government has just been allowed to go
Speaker 1: after all of these student loan borrowers who are currently
Speaker 1: in default. That's a policy based issue. Do you support reparations? No,
Speaker 1: not in a.
Speaker 2: Way it is traditionally talked about, and just to comment
Speaker 2: on what you were talking about. While those are policy
Speaker 2: made by policy, they're also backed by I think the
Speaker 2: real change happens in the people. The real change happens
Speaker 2: in the system. The real change happens in the institutions
Speaker 2: that exist, not in the policies. Because we see it's
Speaker 2: a legal you see every day that you know, black
Speaker 2: men specifically or black people are getting killed by police
Speaker 2: every day. Yet the punishment or whatever is happened, the
Speaker 2: repercussion of that does not look the same across the board.
Speaker 2: So even if there was a policy made, or if
Speaker 2: whatever policy existed, like I keep saying, like I said before,
Speaker 2: the execution is not consistent then or it is working
Speaker 2: for a certain entity or certain group, then it's going
Speaker 2: to be skewed every time.
Speaker 1: So how does the execution change? What do you think
Speaker 1: that like, if you're going to say, like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this is not across the board the same. The reason
Speaker 1: why it's not across the board the same is because
Speaker 1: some folks, especially of police officers, who are killing at
Speaker 1: the municipal or state level, those policies dictate the outcome
Speaker 1: of their punishment. Just like federally, when there was this
Speaker 1: law enforcement database that now this administration has overturned and
Speaker 1: completely gotten rid of, So there's no federal place to
Speaker 1: hold law law enforcement accountable and to see where they
Speaker 1: have run a foul of the rules, been abusive, or
Speaker 1: killed in another jurisdiction. That database is gone a policy.
Speaker 1: So when you're saying, well, the execution is flawed, I
Speaker 1: agree with you. The execution is flawed. How do we
Speaker 1: change the execution.
Speaker 2: By changing the values and the culture of the people,
Speaker 2: Like we have a fear based economy, a that's like
Speaker 2: our fear losing my life, or our fear not being
Speaker 2: able to pay rent, or our fear not being able
Speaker 2: to have food or send my kids to a decent school.
Speaker 2: Like we live in a fear based system where I'm
Speaker 2: scared of the next person because everybody now is allowed
Speaker 2: to have a gun or this person over here has
Speaker 2: all the clothes and I don't have any like it's
Speaker 2: so and jealousy comes in play too, But fear, I
Speaker 2: think has to be eliminated by creating real conversations amongst
Speaker 2: everyday people. That's why I said it all has to
Speaker 2: start at home, which you're teaching your kids, what you're
Speaker 2: teaching the people that are around you in your community.
Speaker 2: Because if we can't have a value system that's based
Speaker 2: on trust, that is based on you know, mutual respect,
Speaker 2: that is based on cooperation, then you get into situations
Speaker 2: where a policy may come into place and nobody is
Speaker 2: really abiding by that policy or even paying the tipst.
Speaker 1: When you talk about a value system that's put into place,
Speaker 1: how would you see that value systems being spread beyond
Speaker 1: your home?
Speaker 2: That's a good question right now. I would say it
Speaker 2: would have to be dominated in the media. If we
Speaker 2: wanted to be mass massly spread. It can't be co opted,
Speaker 2: so it would have to I don't know, it would
Speaker 2: have to be coming from some pretty serious people with
Speaker 2: a lot of funds back and once again, corporations run
Speaker 2: the media. But if you want to reach the masses
Speaker 2: in any way, I think social media, digital media, radio,
Speaker 2: whatever those are to those places will have to be
Speaker 2: especially the influencers will have to be pushing that agenda,
Speaker 2: pushing that narrative. And if not that way, then the
Speaker 2: organizing amongst the masses will have to happen in a
Speaker 2: major way that we haven't really seen since the sixties.
Speaker 1: So what's interesting, Reginald is you said that it would
Speaker 1: need to be spread through the media, and you would
Speaker 1: need a lot of support. And how would you quantify
Speaker 1: that support?
Speaker 2: Quantify as far as like whether dollars or time or.
Speaker 1: You know, the number of people who you would want
Speaker 1: to support this policy, this value system. How would you
Speaker 1: shore up support, How would you ensure that people have
Speaker 1: bought into your value system?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would have to quantify. It would be about
Speaker 2: the numbers. This is we're playing a numbers game for real,
Speaker 2: Like you mentioned that ninety million people who do not
Speaker 2: who did not vote, like this is this is a
Speaker 2: masses game, a lot versus the many, I mean the
Speaker 2: few versus the mini. And so in order to spread
Speaker 2: that there ask the question one more time.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, So this this is what I'm going to
Speaker 1: answer it for you. What you have backed into, Reginald
Speaker 1: is you need buy in from the masses for a
Speaker 1: value system. The way that you would determine if you
Speaker 1: had buy in is people signing on to a pledge
Speaker 1: agreeing that they would take that value system into their
Speaker 1: home or their community. Oh you want to fight that
Speaker 1: because you know where this is going, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say so. It's more about that action. Like
Speaker 2: you can put anything you want on paper, you can
Speaker 2: put it on somebody refrigerator, you can make them sign
Speaker 2: a contract. But that don't mean I want to pay
Speaker 2: this bill. That don't mean I want to stick with
Speaker 2: this company. That don't mean anything really if it's on paper,
Speaker 2: it's about that action. And so if going back to metrics,
Speaker 2: how do you quantify it? That's where that's where you
Speaker 2: were acting. It would have to be I can't. I
Speaker 2: don't have all the answers, So I'm not going to
Speaker 2: sit here and say I do. But it would have
Speaker 2: to be actual engagement and ways outside of voting, and
Speaker 2: ways outside of the traditional system. And we will have
Speaker 2: to identify what those ways are so that people can
Speaker 2: know what exactly to be doing to help move the
Speaker 2: needle forward. Because I feel like voting is like the
Speaker 2: last thing like the last resort. Really, it's so many
Speaker 2: more ways on what you completely be completely politically engaged,
Speaker 2: and so we have to name those and then like
Speaker 2: have a system on which people can you know, say,
Speaker 2: baby are actively participating.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. I think voting is
Speaker 1: the most That is the minimum threshold, that should be
Speaker 1: the baseline thing, and after that we have to engage
Speaker 1: far beyond that. So right now we're rolling out these
Speaker 1: black papers that are ideas and recommendations for how black
Speaker 1: people can be sustaining ourselves moving as a collective. And yes,
Speaker 1: it encourages policy changes because whether we like it or not,
Speaker 1: policy impacts our day to day all the time. Whether
Speaker 1: we engage and we call it an elected official, whether
Speaker 1: we told them to vote a certain way or not,
Speaker 1: these things impact us every single day. So when you
Speaker 1: talked it about a value system, I loved it because
Speaker 1: even the Black Panther Party had a ten point plan,
Speaker 1: their buy in was secured by the number of people
Speaker 1: who read it, supported it, and moved in accordance with
Speaker 1: that plan. Whether we proactively vote in a system that
Speaker 1: we don't like or not, everything is governed by politics
Speaker 1: and policy. Every there's no way we can get away
Speaker 1: from it. So in my mind, I would say, we
Speaker 1: can still be building towards the ideal, But how do
Speaker 1: we boycott the thing that is? When we boycott the
Speaker 1: thing that is, we're in harm's way. You said it
Speaker 1: best earlier. You're like, well, all of these things can
Speaker 1: just be thrown out it like with the stroke of
Speaker 1: a pen. Basically, that's what's happening right now. We are
Speaker 1: down to defending the fourteenth Amendment, which is birthright citizenship.
Speaker 1: It is the very thing that dread Scott died trying
Speaker 1: to ensure that he would have access to that enslaved
Speaker 1: man from Missouri. So when you talk about that, like
Speaker 1: whether or not we're seen as human beings is a
Speaker 1: political and policy based decision, I be damn if I
Speaker 1: let a white person decide that for me. Ever again, right,
Speaker 1: I'm a fight tooth and nail to make sure you
Speaker 1: see my personhood, to make sure you see the person
Speaker 1: that the people in my family, and make sure you
Speaker 1: see the person of the people in the culture. That
Speaker 1: is the least I can do. That is my most
Speaker 1: reasonable service.
Speaker 3: If I could just say, I think one of the
Speaker 3: problems that we have in the society is that the
Speaker 3: measuring stick in which we are measuring ourselves is through
Speaker 3: the lens of whiteness, because we live in a white supremacy,
Speaker 3: and so I think as a part of that value system,
Speaker 3: we have to learn to have so much confidence in
Speaker 3: ourselves that we don't really need.
Speaker 2: And this is where it's gonna get real sticky, because
Speaker 2: like you're, you're, you have to literally create people who
Speaker 2: are not create people. You have to commit class suicide,
Speaker 2: political suicide. You would have to like get rid of
Speaker 2: all the things that you know and love because they
Speaker 2: are have been like given to us essentially, they have
Speaker 2: been given to us by the people who are empowered,
Speaker 2: to people who have access, to people who have access.
Speaker 2: And until we learn to get until we learned to
Speaker 2: measure ourselves from our own from our own stick, we
Speaker 2: always want to be looking at the white rule, the
Speaker 2: white whatever as the way in which we should be going.
Speaker 2: But I personally don't agree with that. And then also
Speaker 2: the goal is liberation, and I don't think that the
Speaker 2: powers that be on either side have when I say
Speaker 2: either side democratic or republic, has given a convincing enough
Speaker 2: argument to people who don't vote or people who are
Speaker 2: disengaged with the traditional voting system to say, to make
Speaker 2: them feel the urgent call to act. It's so many
Speaker 2: things that people are dealing with in a material world
Speaker 2: that all of the stuff that they're talking about, the
Speaker 2: political mumbo jumbo that they're talking about, doesn't even hit
Speaker 2: home because it doesn't resonate with what I got to
Speaker 2: deal with today. And I hear you saying that it
Speaker 2: influences us every day, but to a regular person who
Speaker 2: is not connected, we don't really see it. We're just
Speaker 2: getting through because that's what we got to do.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Today we got to pay our suit the loans. That's
Speaker 2: just what it is. To rock with it and not
Speaker 2: saying we shouldn't do something about it. But even before
Speaker 2: we had the right to vote, we were doing stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, and that action I think we have lost
Speaker 2: before it again, like we had before we got the
Speaker 2: right to vote, we were politically active, and so how
Speaker 2: can we get back to that. I think people would
Speaker 2: be more resonate, would more resonate.
Speaker 1: With I appreciate what you're saying. I think that some
Speaker 1: ancestors will be rolling over in their graves at the
Speaker 1: idea of we are trying to get something that was
Speaker 1: given to us. These people died, fought like ensured that
Speaker 1: we had not just the right to vote, but the
Speaker 1: right to work, the right to be seen is fully human,
Speaker 1: the right to our freedom. It's always been about abolition
Speaker 1: and liberation in this country. It's sorry you came off you.
Speaker 1: You need to say something middle my thought.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, I'm sorry. I just want to say, seen
Speaker 2: as human by whom that's what really matters. If we
Speaker 2: were seeing it. If we're not seeing as human by ourselves,
Speaker 2: then we got a real problem. But if we're looking
Speaker 2: through somebody else's eyes like I was saying, then then
Speaker 2: that's why we get to the situation. Man. And I'm
Speaker 2: sorry to cut you off.
Speaker 1: We were brought here by force, right, so it is
Speaker 1: incumbent that the same people who brought us here by force,
Speaker 1: violently stripping us away from our families, see our humanity
Speaker 1: because they didn't see it when they took those actions.
Speaker 1: That is required. So long as we stay here now,
Speaker 1: if we decide we want to go someplace else and
Speaker 1: build something else, that's fine too. There are a lot
Speaker 1: of black folks that have gone that have done that,
Speaker 1: got dual citizenship and all the rest But if we
Speaker 1: have to coexist with folks regardless of that they're indigenous,
Speaker 1: Asian folks, brown folks, white folks, we have to all
Speaker 1: commit to seeing each other's humanity otherwisewise, Reginie, just let
Speaker 1: me finish. Otherwise, the humanity does not work, The coalition
Speaker 1: does not work. Nobody is safe in an environment where
Speaker 1: people cannot appreciate the other person's humanity. That's one. Two.
Speaker 1: When I was talking about our folks like trying to conform,
Speaker 1: to fit, to do whatever with white folks, that's not
Speaker 1: it at all. It is that we have built systems
Speaker 1: that we've never been properly credited for. From the United
Speaker 1: States Capitol Building to the White House to everywhere else,
Speaker 1: we have built these systems, and the systems still haven't
Speaker 1: properly served us, and they won't so long as our
Speaker 1: folks continue to say we are better off outside of
Speaker 1: these systems, all the while not having the resources, human capital,
Speaker 1: whatever else to build those systems. So, while we are
Speaker 1: building a separate agenda or an agenda in addition to
Speaker 1: that will properly serve, properly serve and meet our needs,
Speaker 1: we still have to understand what we're up against Now
Speaker 1: you're saying, well, if we got to pay our student loans,
Speaker 1: so be it. A lot of our folks can't afford
Speaker 1: to do that. There are black women who are graduating
Speaker 1: in larger numbers than black men right now from college
Speaker 1: who took out an exorbitant amount of student loans and
Speaker 1: now cannot pay them back. Some of them are sitting
Speaker 1: members of Congress. Summarally was just in an oversighting government
Speaker 1: reform met talking about that. So for me, I don't
Speaker 1: see it as to me, it's a privilege. I don't
Speaker 1: have to not engage politically, to not support the people
Speaker 1: who think like me, support me, and sound like me
Speaker 1: on policy on the hill. I don't want these random
Speaker 1: people speaking for me and doing for me. I want
Speaker 1: people who understand my experience and whose experience I can understand,
Speaker 1: speaking and working on my behalf. I don't have the
Speaker 1: opportunity or the luxury to sit out that process, but
Speaker 1: I am going to keep building something else that I
Speaker 1: think better serves us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I think both happen simultaneously. I just
Speaker 2: don't think that in large scale, the outside agenda is
Speaker 2: being created and so it's everybody. A lot the people
Speaker 2: who are actively engaging in a traditional way. Are like
Speaker 2: trying to get all these people to get active in
Speaker 2: this way. But it's got to be working. You gotta
Speaker 2: work both sides, dual citizenship on both sides. I think
Speaker 2: that society, like I think that we are too, We
Speaker 2: are into deep Like, how can we expect somebody who
Speaker 2: enslaved does see talking specifically about black people here, How
Speaker 2: can we expect somebody who enslaved us, who pillaged our village,
Speaker 2: who raped and murdered and killed us. How can we
Speaker 2: expect that same person to then look at us as
Speaker 2: human even if it's hundreds of years later, Like the
Speaker 2: system that created the idea to take over those lives,
Speaker 2: to ruin those lives, to even call those lives not
Speaker 2: even not even three fifths like all of that stuff.
Speaker 2: Who Why would we expect anybody who has that mindset,
Speaker 2: or a system that has that at its core, to
Speaker 2: ever then turn around and say, hey, we respect you though,
Speaker 2: we want you to be a part of us. And
Speaker 2: even if they did say that, you got I think
Speaker 2: what we haven't done enough is create the agenda to
Speaker 2: offset the manipulation that happens doing part of the systems
Speaker 2: that created the situation that we are already a part of.
Speaker 2: So like, where's the counter for us, where's the countermeasure?
Speaker 2: Where's the old gotcha? You know, we don't have in
Speaker 2: the black community or even empowers communities or you know,
Speaker 2: the low income community. We don't have that gotcha to
Speaker 2: be able to push back against the powers.
Speaker 1: That be, Reginald, and with that, I would thank you
Speaker 1: for your time. I'm going to say this in response
Speaker 1: to you, and I'm going to encourage you to look
Speaker 1: these things up, because that's not true. Black people have
Speaker 1: been organizing around a liberation agenda since we got here.
Speaker 1: They did it every single year. They started in the
Speaker 1: Ami Church for the most part, meeting to talk about
Speaker 1: our freedom agenda every year until the emancipation. Right around
Speaker 1: the emancipation, there's a reason why they gave us Special
Speaker 1: Filled Order number fifteen, and it was after the organizing
Speaker 1: of nineteen ministers led by Garrison Fraser in eighteen sixty
Speaker 1: five that would have ensured that we had forty eight
Speaker 1: and a mule that Special Filled Onder number fifteen. That
Speaker 1: was an agenda item that was very very clear. Frederick Douglas,
Speaker 1: Harriet Tubman, all of these people worked around an agenda
Speaker 1: for our freedom the Black Panther Party Ten Point Plan Gary,
Speaker 1: Indiana in nineteen seventy two. The National Black Political Convention
Speaker 1: agenda is one that was pushed nineteen seventy one. The
Speaker 1: Congressional Black Caucus met with Richard Nixon with sixty one
Speaker 1: recommendations for how black people could could better live and
Speaker 1: be liberated in this country. Tavis Smiley had the Covenant
Speaker 1: with Black America. Every single year the National Urban League
Speaker 1: published is the State of Black America. We are right now.
Speaker 1: As I said at the top of this program, introducing
Speaker 1: it for all black folks to pay attention to, to
Speaker 1: engage with, and hopefully share black papers. It will be
Speaker 1: twenty eight black papers on agenda items that we need
Speaker 1: to better survive, to thrive in this country and to
Speaker 1: move forward. So I got to disagree on we don't
Speaker 1: do it, we do it. Oh, and I forgot Black
Speaker 1: Futures Lab that every year or every four years, they
Speaker 1: do the Black Census where they collect data from black people.
Speaker 1: This past one a little almost two hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: thousand Black people engaged around that census, and then their
Speaker 1: sister organization of which I'm a proud board member Black
Speaker 1: to the Future Action Fund submitted an agenda called this
Speaker 1: Black Economic Agenda twenty twenty four. So we do these things.
Speaker 1: We need y'all to read up on these things. Sign on,
Speaker 1: let us know what we may have missed. Lolo, send
Speaker 1: me a couple of questions I want to get to.
Speaker 1: I do want to thank Reginald so much for his
Speaker 1: time in conversation a day. It is through those conversations,
Speaker 1: y'all that we figure out where our gaps are and
Speaker 1: we get on the same page. If yoll losin, can
Speaker 1: you highlight elections on the ballot this year and what's
Speaker 1: at stake more locally, We're going to do that on
Speaker 1: another podcast, if you would, If y'all losin that in
Speaker 1: as a video so that my colleagues can also engage.
Speaker 1: I'm not quite at the ballot. I'm still at our
Speaker 1: power before we get to the ballot box. That is
Speaker 1: where I agree with Reggie right now. I am not
Speaker 1: discouraging people from voting, especially in your upcoming elections, but
Speaker 1: I am highly encouraging you that in addition to voting,
Speaker 1: you are leaning into your collective power and building around
Speaker 1: a collective agenda. Dad said, how can we have confidence.
Speaker 1: If we don't have basic rights to see, how can
Speaker 1: we have faith in a system that constantly is preached
Speaker 1: it's broken, it is broken, but that you are the bomb.
Speaker 1: You got a band aid, you got you got some stitches.
Speaker 1: You gotta be the one that sold the thing back
Speaker 1: together again like we've always done. Asked failing and bluhmer
Speaker 1: a little bit about that, Aya said, I hear you, Angela.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: I think he is asking why should we fight for
Speaker 1: a system that does not value us? Again, my sister,
Speaker 1: we agree with that. We do need to come together,
Speaker 1: and I agree with Reggie. I'll look forward to continuing
Speaker 1: to build with Reggie the system that we do, in
Speaker 1: fact deserve. I just don't believe we can throw out everything.
Speaker 1: What y'all going to do to serve veterans, What y'all
Speaker 1: going to do to ensure these kids are being educated
Speaker 1: with the same standards, What you're going to do to
Speaker 1: ensure that the justice system is serving us more than
Speaker 1: it is harming us. Those are the things that I
Speaker 1: don't want to throw out because we have to make
Speaker 1: sure that they are fixed. We have to make sure
Speaker 1: that we're starting from something. What social Security plan y'all
Speaker 1: got right. So if we had to start everything from scratch,
Speaker 1: understand that that means that a lot, a lot, a
Speaker 1: lot is at stake and we would have to build
Speaker 1: everything from the ground up. I don't know if y'all
Speaker 1: are thinking that through all the way. Health and Human
Speaker 1: Services making sure that vaccines are consistent across the board.
Speaker 1: Education the thing they're trying to dismantle right now. How
Speaker 1: you gonna make sure HBCUs and land grant colleges and
Speaker 1: your kids hand start all get funded? Are you thinking
Speaker 1: through all of those things when you want to throw
Speaker 1: out the system. Where as your system begin? What departments
Speaker 1: are you going to have? Commerce? Are you going to
Speaker 1: have veterans affairs? Are you gonna have Homeland Security? How
Speaker 1: you go tell me what we're doing? Right? We got
Speaker 1: to think through this. I'm not arguing for the broken system.
Speaker 1: I'm arguing that it's easier to mend what is broken
Speaker 1: than to start from scratch. Anyway, we're over time. We
Speaker 1: appreciate you, y'all. Thank you so much again to Reginald.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Reginald for coming on being so brave
Speaker 1: telling the truth about his story. We hope that you
Speaker 1: all will continue to do the same. Please make sure
Speaker 1: you send us your videos at Native lamppod on Instagram,
Speaker 1: that you follow and subscribe us here on YouTube, and
Speaker 1: that you also make sure that you subscribe to our
Speaker 1: podcast channel. We're available wherever you get your podcasts. We
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Tomorrow will tell you how many
Speaker 1: days left until the next election. Until then, welcome home, y'all.
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