WEBVTT - The Seven Deadlies: Pride Cometh Before the Brain 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:14.080 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.599 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglass. Julie, 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.680 you're familiar with the Seven Deadly Sins? Right? Oh yeah, yeah, gluttony, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.640 I'm all over that. Well, well there's more than just glatton. Yeah, 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.840 that's there's there's a loss, there's gluttony, there's greed, there's sloped, 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:30.360 there's rat there's envy, and then that the queen of 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:34.720 the Seven Deadly Sins, Pride, the queen so called by 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.559 Pope St. Gregory, right, yeah, who largely popularized this, this 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.400 list of seven deadly sins, drawing on older did traditions. Uh, 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:44.960 I mean you look back to like the Book of Proverbs. 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.760 You have King Solomon dealing with like seven deadly is 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.559 in a sense. Uh so there's an older tradition there. 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.280 But Gregory is really the popular really popularized these these 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.400 seven deadly sins. So we're thinking, hey, let's examine these. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.600 We're all into talking about science meets human experience, philosophy 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.680 and science kind of duke it out. What's going on 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.880 with various parts of the human experience. So let's uh, 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.639 we've decided we're gonna tackle each of these seven deadly sins, 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.560 and uh, just in case we get slothful and don't finish, 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:17.400 we figured, let's let's start with a big one. Let's 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.040 go and tackle the the mother of of sins, Pride, 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.319 which I have to say, I was a little bit 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.360 surprised that this is considered the mother pride. I mean 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.040 that doesn't you know, pride coming before the fall? Though? Right's? 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.039 I mean, I I instantly think back to uh to 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:39.080 to the divine comedy, uh, Dante's Inferno at all. And uh, 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:41.800 it's interesting. There's you know, you have all these these 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:47.280 various circles and uh bulges in um in in Dante's 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.760 Hell that they did shot various punishments. So there's like, 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:52.920 you know, like the lustful or punished in one way 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.720 and then their heretics in another, and and it goes 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.680 all the way down to where at the very bottom 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:04.120 you have say himself and various betrayers and deceivers. They're 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.760 frozen in this lake. So but but it's what's interesting 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.560 is that there's not really a particular circle in hell 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.959 that's devoted to the prideful, because there's there's a lot 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.079 of pride going on in hell. Do you encounter prideful 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.840 individuals at various levels? For instance, there's Farranata. Uh, it's 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.520 a pretty proud heretic that you encount. There's a thief 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.840 by the name of Vanni of Fusie. There's this really 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.000 awesome part where he is essentially so prideful. Uh. He's 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.280 in Hell and he's basically giving God the finger. But 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.480 it's not the finger. It's this Italian thing called the 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:40.760 figs where oh is this this modern thing too? Uh, 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:45.440 there's just a Italian term that I know. Well, it's 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.200 where you you take your thumb, you make a fist 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.200 and then stick your thumb up through your middle and 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.120 the index finger, and then you kind of and then 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.440 with the with your knuckles facing out, you kind of 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.919 like shake your fist and then ideally you do this 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.760 on both hands, like like like our friend the thief 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.240 in Dante's Inferno and he has shakes them at the 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:09.440 heaven doing this right now. Yeah, So, um, I'm always 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.160 mindful that there's there's actually apparently in Um in twelve, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:18.639 the citizens of the Storia Um fixed two of these 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:23.320 figs on on this marble tower and aim them at Florence. 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:26.560 So you had like whole buildings making figs at other cities. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.520 It's pretty amazing. If if memory starts right, I believe 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.480 that figs have a phallic Yes, it's a very phallic thing. 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:38.360 It's you know, masculine female. You know, you know, you 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.200 don't really have to use your imagination all that much 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:42.680 to see if you're looking down, if you've done this 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:43.920 and you're looking down at your hands right now, and 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.440 you're gonna be like, that's a little creepy looking. Yeah, 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:51.600 um so uh so you have various prideful individuals, and 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.800 pride is a part of all these other sins and 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.520 and Dante sell though. If you travel up to the 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.640 Mount of Purgatory, which is the focus of the second 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.160 volume in the Divine Comedy, in Purgatory, you have the 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.960 Mount of Purgatory, which is this mountain that connects Earth 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.400 to Heaven. And if you are not you're not bad enough, 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.080 say to wind up in hell, but you still have 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.760 some work to do. You still got some some rough 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.920 corners to buff out before you can actually walk through 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.880 the pearly gates. Then you need to go through purgatory. 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.159 And purgatory is this mountain with these various terraces, and 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.800 on each terrace, if you start out at the bottom, 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.839 you have seven ps um on your forehead, these seven marks, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.320 and as you travel through each terrace, you work off 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.039 one of these marks until you're you're pure enough to 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.760 actually enter the earthly paradise and ascent. So the first 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:42.640 level that you have to go through on the amount 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.200 of purgatory deals with pride. And so you have you 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:51.080 have individuals walking around on this terrace carrying heavy rocks 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.760 in their backs, so the weights forcing them to walk slowly, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:55.800 their bodies are bent low to the ground. So that 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.719 is probably the most direct way that pride itself is 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:00.560 dealt with in the divine con me though it it 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.120 pops up time and time again as a as part 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.760 and parcel to other major sins like I mean, Satan himself, 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.200 the great Deceiver, the great center. Uh you know, it's 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:15.080 his fall is all about pride. Well, yeah, and from 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.920 what I read to you about la Viathan, the snake 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.000 is the spirit of pride right and actually is masquerading 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:26.080 as the Holy Ghost and might enter someone and displace 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.279 This is my interpretation God is the center, right, so 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.080 you're replacing God with yourself as the center. Is that 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.080 perhaps this is why it's the queen of all sins 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.120 and and certainly outside of the Christian tradition, you see 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:42.440 pride show up the major downfall in human nature, for 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.359 instance the wheel of life and Tibetan beauty Buddhism the 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:50.280 wheel of sensara. You see these various realms in which 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.200 the human may become reincarnated, the various states of being. 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.080 So there's like an animal realm, there's a human realm, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.440 there's their their hell realms, and then there are these 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.919 these up realms of existence, including the data realm. And 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.480 this is like the realm of the gods where these 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.240 mighty beings do their thing. But they're so consumed by 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.800 ego and they're so blind to the suffering of others 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.479 that even though they're long lived, when they die, they're 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.800 often reincarnated into the lower realms. And to say that 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.360 the hell realms, because their lives ended up having such 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:27.719 nasty results and were so charmatically awful. So just for 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.360 being a little bit puffed up, well they were more 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.720 than a little bit puffed up. They were they had 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.919 godlike pride and that was their their fault. And then 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.200 of course the other thing is that the baton Buddhism especially, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.080 it's all about finding that balance, that equanimity. Uh. And 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.839 the human realm is the this, this desired realm, because 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:46.960 this is the room from which you can actually achieve 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.840 liberation and rise above all the other rooms, and a 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.479 rise above the cycle of endless rebirth and death, where 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.080 the individuals spiraling through all these different cycles of of 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.839 outrageous pride and outrageous to spare, outrageous violence and just 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.560 pure like animal existence eventually rises above all that through 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.760 liberation and the than the noble eightfold path. All right, 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.600 So that's the way that you would achieve this, right right, Um. 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.080 And that's the philosophical side. But let's look at the 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.600 science side of pride, because it turns out there is 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.600 a scientific part when you're talking about pride in the 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.040 human being. So it turns out that pride is actually 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.680 an adaptive virtue. Um. And this is from Discover Magazines 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.240 article I didn't send, it was my brain. Um. They 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.080 say that most of us perceive ourselves is slightly smarter, smarter, funnier, 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.440 more talented, and better looking than average. These rose colored 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.240 glasses are apparently important to mental health, the psychological immune 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.760 system that protects us from despair. This is from Julian 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.640 Paul Keenan, and he's the director of Cognitive Neuroimaging Laboratory 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.160 and Professor of Psychology at Montclair State University in New 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.520 Jersey and um, So, apparently this is something that we 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:04.000 need as social animals in order to bolster ourselves. And 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.080 they actually have found that we start expressing pride as 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.800 early as two and a half years old and by 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.560 age four able to recognize it. So we sort of 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:17.080 points to something being hardwired in ourselves to be able 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:22.120 to negotiate the social contract that we all um entered into. Yeah, 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.000 I mean, because that's the thing about pride, it's it's 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.520 you need to have pride in what you do. Like 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.920 nobody wants to be around somebody who who doesn't believe 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.240 in their own ability. Like like nobody wants to hire 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.240 somebody who who isn't going to say, yeah, I'm great 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.000 at what I do and you should hire me. I mean, 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.040 that's just well right, And we'll talk about that. We'll 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.439 talk about how the in terms of group think, people 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.680 are looking really as pride as a marker in someone, 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.640 and not only that, humility isn't always what it's cracked 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.080 up to be. And we'll talk about with that in 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.360 a little bit um, but I did want to point 0:08:58.360 --> 0:08:59.959 out that there seems to be some sort of uni 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.240 versality when it comes to pride. Um. It looks like this. 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.440 It's a slight smile ahead, tilt with hands on the 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.840 hips or or your hands raised high and Dr Tracy 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:17.160 and David Matsumoto, psychologists at San Francisco State, analyzed spontaneous 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.840 responses to winning or losing a judo match during the 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.200 two thousand and four Olympic and Paralympic Games, and they 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.840 found that expressions of pride after a victory were similar 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:30.280 for athletes from thirty seven nations, including for fifty three 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.720 blind competitors, many of them who were blind from birth. 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.679 So the idea is that this isn't just a simple 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.320 act of imitation. In other words, we see one another 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.040 do it. It's not learned behavior. It's it's actually something 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.880 that's emerging. Yeah, cue exactly, there's something going on in 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.280 our brains that is pulling the puppet strings of expression 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:51.400 for pride. All right, we're gonna take a quick break 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:52.640 and then we're gonna get back to all of this, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:10:01.120 So hanging there for one second and back. Obviously, there 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.199 are two sort of branches of pride. There's the sort 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.280 of authentic pride, uh, where yeah, you want to be 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.240 prideful about stuff that you're good at, you want to 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.280 believe in yourself, you want to have enough optimism to 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:16.800 carry out your your daily life. But then there's this 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:21.079 realm of hubris where you're just vain and prideful to 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:26.400 an annoying or just destructive extent. Yeah, that's more in 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:30.120 the category of narcissism and someone who is very arrogant, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.560 kind of like jerk jerk pride. I guess you could say, yeah, 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.559 very much like this sinful like I'm Satan, I'm great, 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.040 uh kind of pride or the or the data pride, 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:42.640 you know, where the where you have these beings that 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.800 are just enormously powerful and just do not care about 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.560 the suffering going around around them. Yeah. Right, So I 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.640 mean that's that's the problem with pride, right. I think 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:56.080 there's the private empowers versus the private blinds, the private wounds. Yeah, 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.280 and let's talk about some of the Psychology about pride 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.600 in society. UM. There was a study on sixty two 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.240 undergraduates who took tests that were supposedly measuring their spatial 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.880 i Q, and really the patterns that were flashed before 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.120 them were going way too fast that they couldn't actually 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.520 um perform on this test. That wasn't the point. The 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.800 point is that afterwards the researchers took all of them 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.760 aside or some of them not, and gave them feedback 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.040 on how they did. And so they gave them They 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.920 either didn't give them any feedback at all, or they 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.040 said with little or no expression, you did very well, 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:33.160 or they completely gushed and said you did great. Um. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.880 And of course again this they took this test and 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.199 it was it wasn't really about the results of it, 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.760 because I couldn't really finish it. But they didn't know that. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.199 The participants then sat down in a group to solve 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.440 similar puzzles so that researchers could assess their behavior based 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.400 on the feedback that they had given them, and they 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.840 found that the puffed up, prideful students were perceived as 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.400 being both more dominant and more likable than those who 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:59.160 didn't get a seal of approval from the researchers, and 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.400 they were really surp pries about that because they thought 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:07.360 that the other students would be considered boastful or um, 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.400 just arrogant. They didn't realize that this was a big 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.200 social component that those people were actually looked up to 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.160 because they had pride and it also had there's something 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.080 to stay here to about the power of positive reinforcement, 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.520 you know, like build up. Uh, certainly the people that 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.960 work for you and the people around you, you know, 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.400 because that puts him in a better position to excel. Yeah, 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.240 that's yeah, that's a sort of a sidebar on that experiment. 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.199 So that's psychology of pride in society. But let's talk 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.280 about psychology of pride in your own self, Yes, in 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.400 the individual. And this is where the research of Julian 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.480 Paul Keenan is particularly interesting. Um. He's a director of 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.760 Cognitive neuro Imagining Laboratory and professor of psychology at Montclair 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.520 State University in New Jersey, New joycey uh And, and 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.079 as his title implies, he's done a lot of work 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.440 peering inside the brain and seeing what's actually happening in 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.160 moments of pride. Yeah, he did. He got into uh 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.000 into people's brains because what he started to realize is 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:09.960 that this is a quote for him, those who see 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.480 themselves as they truly are not so funny, a bad driver, 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.640 overweight have a greater chance of being diagnosed with clinical depression. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.600 So he wanted to take this premise of people who 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.080 are a little bit more self aware and see what 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.520 was going on in their brains right, and he found 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.960 that it actually there's actually less mental energy typically involved 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.959 in puffing ourselves up then trrying ourselves down. Even though 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.640 they're they're they're they're very similar on a neurological level, 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.240 like they're both actions are tied to two more or 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.240 less the same region of the brain. In particular, Keenan 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:46.120 was interested in the m PFC and this is brain 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.560 train just behind the forehead, and this is what helps 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.120 shape awareness of self right. And he used a magnetic 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:57.720 field called transcreanial magnetic stimulation uh TMS. We've actually talked 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:01.200 about this before, applied to this ALPA volunteers, and it 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.560 temporarily scrambled the signals in this area of the brain, 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.800 selectively shutting off this region of the brain which I 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.080 neglected to say what mPFC stands for it is the 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:17.079 medial prefrontal cortex. So he has this means to briefly 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:21.120 shut off the mPFC and his volunteers, UH switches them off, 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:26.000 and then he watches as the normal everyday arrogance melts 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.080 away from these individuals. And apparently it's not a pretty site. No. No, 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.400 they see themselves as they really are, without glossing over 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:37.040 negative characteristics. Um so. And I think it's fascinating that 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.920 the whole TMS transcaranial magnetic stimulation, that you can sit 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.280 there with a magnet and actually manipulate that part of 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.440 the brain. Is just on a side note, very creepy 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:51.040 to me. Um But there's a study by Haidihikohikishi of 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:55.160 the National Institute of Radiological Sciences in Japan and researchers 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.920 as volunteers to imagine themselves winning a prize or truncing 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.840 an opponent while their brain things were being scanned, and 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.800 they showed less activation and brain regions associated with introspection 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.880 and self conscious thought than people induced to feel negative 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.720 emotions like shame or embarrassment. So the conclusion is that, 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.120 as you had did before, we accept positive feedback about 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:20.520 ourselves readily right, there's less energy. We just go okay me, 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:25.760 except that rather than compared with something like guilt or embarrassment, 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.320 which is the brain really contends to go over a 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.520 little bit more. Another thing to come out of Keenan's 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:32.520 work that I thought was interesting was that he pointed 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.440 out that self deprecation and self deceptive pride. Yeah, they're 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.960 both located in the same region of the brain, Like 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.840 it's that and they both serve the same purpose, and 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.680 that is to advance in society, which makes it, you know, 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.880 makes sense. One person may say they're being really self 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.160 deprecating because they're they're sort of fishing for for boost 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.400 me ups there, They're they're looking for sympathy or like, oh, no, 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.800 you did fine, You're really not not that bad at 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.000 this thing that you you know, you're you're harping about, 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.800 versus the person who is, uh, who is just unrealistically 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.560 pumping themselves up because they're they're trying to make others 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.680 believe in this boastful reality that they're puting forth. Yeah, 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.640 I thought it was really interesting in that the unctious 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:16.720 ingratiating behavior, this this humility is masquerading really like it's 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.720 the difference. Like if one person was saying like, man, 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.240 I am so beautiful, and people were like, yeah, okay, 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.000 you are beautiful. You keep talking about it. I'm buying 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.400 into it now. And then the other person is saying, oh, man, 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.040 I'm so not beautiful, and then people are like, oh no, 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.120 you are beautiful. Like it's similar results of like in 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.280 terms of other people's what other people are saying and 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.280 or thinking about you, or I'm not as beautiful as 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.120 you are. You know what I'm saying, like ingratiating yourself 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.400 in that way, which is really interesting and it's really 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.680 I find that fascinating that using the same TMS he 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.840 was able to detect that and effectively study something that, 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.880 for the longest was was really not studied all that 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.120 much because it was sort of considered in the same 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:01.120 way that there's not a particular region and Andte's inferno, 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.160 there's not a particular circle that's just devoted to pride. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.080 It was just thought that it was too elusive, that 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.360 it was just too it was too everywhere and nowhere 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.600 to really succinctly study. Well, it's not as you know, sexy, 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.040 as anger or fear people, right, they didn't think that 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.120 there was much to it, but in fact it's really 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.960 uh part and personal of the way that we interact 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.040 with one another and the way that we're perceived. And 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.680 I do, I do really find it very interesting that um, 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.520 you can see this taking place in the brain, you know, 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.840 when he is um, when Keenan is manipulating that one 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.399 area about self awareness and how all that just melts 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.120 away and someone can see themselves for for who they are, 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.879 which you know, we've brought this up before, but like wow, 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.359 I mean that that makes me think about how again 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.080 how much we constructed in reality and how much of 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:52.040 our brains really inform who we are, our personalities. So 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.359 the science kind of falls in line with some of 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.639 what we kind of already knew about pride in that 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.439 there's there's both ay, a light and a dark side 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.960 to pride. There is a there's a balanced level of 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.199 pride that allows us to to to go about our 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.840 daily lives and our professional lives and our personal lives 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.640 in a reasonable manner. And then there's a cases where 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.280 there's there's not enough pride, where one is more prone 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.800 to depression and uh, and then there's a there's overwhelming pride. 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.520 There's just pure hubrist where the individual is just violently 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.960 strutting forth like a peacock through life like a peacock 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.320 and a china shop. Yeah yeah, And I really like 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.600 this idea of it being therapeutic too though, sort of 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:35.760 a you know, fake it till you make it thing, Yeah, 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:37.680 I mean, and and to think back, you know, to 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.560 on these these example like you see writings of you know, 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:45.200 individuals like Saint Didditict who compares the pride and humility 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.280 to Jacob's ladder, this dream vision of this ladder that 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.200 allows one to reach Heaven and God and the idea 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.000 that um any like any kind of pride is a 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.080 step down the letter of the ladder, and then a 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.199 humility step of humility is a step up the ladder. 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.280 But then you have you know, you've had other people 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.439 and out that pride is really kind of a it's 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.720 almost kind of like a safety feature, uh with other 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.960 sins Like if you were enjoying food and it it 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.760 might it seem to be uh that you're going down 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.160 the road to gluttony. Well, then pride should should cut 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.560 in at some point and stop you and be like, whoa, 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.359 I should as as great as his food. Is I 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.680 also I am kind of prideful about how I look, 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.160 so I should maybe hold off so that I don't 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.359 ruin that with excessive burger eating. I see a book 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.320 in here like how to make a Seven Stans Work 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.480 for You? Well by Lamb. Well no, well they're those 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.400 books already exist. That they're one is called the Satanic 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.240 Bible by Anton LaVey. But because then because the whole 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:41.840 thing I read it in like in high school. But 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.160 like a lot of that is like him Anton LaVey 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.760 arguing it's like all these seven deadly sins, they're really 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.040 seven deadly virtues because they're all great and blah blah blah. 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.000 And that's the thing. There's certainly an argument to be 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:54.800 made for any of these sins, like at what point 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:56.720 is it is it really something that hurts us? And 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.080 at what point is it just a part of who 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.840 we are? And is it more hurtful to ignore it? Um? 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.400 Which is I That's gonna be a topic that's gonna 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:06.919 continue to come up as we examine each of these 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.119 uh so called sins from the standpoint of science, just 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.359 right in psychology and all that. Next up and the 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.600 next wepisview I believe it, since that's the second look, 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:24.520 all right, well, well tell us what you think. What 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:26.560 do you think about pride, how it factors into your 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:31.200 daily life, and how it factors into the various competing 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.479 world views in the world around around us? Do you 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:35.840 do you agree with St Benedict? Do you agree with 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.720 Anton LaVey? Let us know. You can find us on 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.280 Twitter and Facebook. On Facebook we are Stuff to Blow 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.399 Your Mind, and on Twitter we are Below the Mind, 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.000 and you can also drop us a note at Below 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:53.680 the Mind at Discovery dot com. Be sure to check 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:56.840 out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. 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