WEBVTT - All Eyes on Greenland

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>We start getting emails, we start hearing things that the

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<v Speaker 2>President has started making comments about Greenland.

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<v Speaker 3>President Donald Trump has wanted to gain control of Greenland

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<v Speaker 3>for years, and after the raid on Venezuela and the

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<v Speaker 3>capture of President Nicholas Maduro on Saturday, Trump started talking

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<v Speaker 3>about the idea again.

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<v Speaker 4>We need Greenland from the standpoint of national security, and

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<v Speaker 4>Denmark is not going to be able to do it.

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<v Speaker 5>I can tell you.

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<v Speaker 3>Other figures in Trump's orbit started talking about Greenland too.

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<v Speaker 2>Stephen Miller, who works in the White House his wife

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<v Speaker 2>Katie Miller, tweeted out a picture of Greenland with an

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<v Speaker 2>American flag draped all over it, which stirred up a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of controversy, and then Stephen Miller himself came on later.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe this is on CNN with one of the reporters,

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<v Speaker 2>Chike Tapper.

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<v Speaker 6>So I know you're treating this as breaking news. The

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<v Speaker 6>President has been clear for a month now that the

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<v Speaker 6>United States should be the nation that has Greenland is

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<v Speaker 6>part of our overall security apparatus.

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<v Speaker 3>Some Trump administration officials have since tried to walk back

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<v Speaker 3>some of the most aggressive rhetoric. Secretary of State Marco

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<v Speaker 3>Rubio told Will Macers the goal is to buy Greenland

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<v Speaker 3>from Denmark, but it's a hard belt to unring.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the fact that these comments came right after

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<v Speaker 1>the raid on Venezuela that got officials in Denmark and

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<v Speaker 1>Greenland they really worried.

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<v Speaker 3>Sonovas covers the economy and politics of Denmark and Greenland

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<v Speaker 3>from Bloomberg's Copenhagen Bureau. She says the substance and the

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<v Speaker 3>timing of the Trump administration's Greenland comments are being taken

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<v Speaker 3>very seriously by officials across Europe who are members of

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<v Speaker 3>the NATO Joint Defense Pact alongside the US.

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<v Speaker 1>Suddenly it's gotten Europe worried because Greenland kind of could

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<v Speaker 1>fall on too. Donald trum reinterpretation of the Monroe Doctrine

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<v Speaker 1>Benjuela illustrated to everyone that Trump.

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<v Speaker 5>Is willing to do things we thought he wouldn't do.

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<v Speaker 1>He's willing to break international law to achieve his aims.

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<v Speaker 2>The question has been now for years, is that really

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<v Speaker 2>what they want to do? Here gets a fair conversation

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<v Speaker 2>to have, especially from the point of view from Danish officials,

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<v Speaker 2>like if one day you wake up and the President

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<v Speaker 2>of the United States is saying, we want to own

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<v Speaker 2>this territory that is actually under your flag.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, It's not just rhetoric to that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not just yea. Words mean something like even if

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump is loose with words, they always mean something.

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<v Speaker 3>Jodo covers economic and corporate state craft for Bloomberg. He

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<v Speaker 3>spent a lot of time reporting on Greenland.

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<v Speaker 2>You have the Danish premiere saying if there's an attack

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<v Speaker 2>that would effectively end NATO. So you're starting to get

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<v Speaker 2>into the territory that like, if we take this all

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<v Speaker 2>very very seriously, I mean, this are some massive, massive issues.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from

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<v Speaker 3>Bloomberg News today on the show, with the US attack

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<v Speaker 3>in Venezuela, an escalating White House rhetoric mean for Greenland,

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<v Speaker 3>and where it all leaves NATO as it faces the

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<v Speaker 3>prospect of a newly emboldened Russia. Donald Trump has been

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<v Speaker 3>talking about taking over Greenland since twenty nineteen, when he

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<v Speaker 3>first floated the idea of the US buying the island

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<v Speaker 3>as part of a large real estate deal, and he

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<v Speaker 3>picked back up at the beginning of his second term.

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<v Speaker 4>And I also have a message tonight for the incredible

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<v Speaker 4>people of Greenland. We strongly support your right to determine

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<v Speaker 4>your own future, and if you choose, we welcome you

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<v Speaker 4>into the United States of America. We need.

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<v Speaker 3>In his dressed to Congress in March twenty twenty five,

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<v Speaker 3>Trump made clear that having control of Greenland was still

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<v Speaker 3>a priority.

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<v Speaker 4>One way or the other, We're going to get it.

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<v Speaker 3>I asked Bloomberg, Son of US, and Joe Doe to

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<v Speaker 3>remind us why Trump is so interested in Greenland.

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<v Speaker 1>Officially, Trump says it's all about US national security. The

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<v Speaker 1>island basically sits right between the North Atlantic and the Arctic,

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<v Speaker 1>and it essentially puts it right in the front line

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<v Speaker 1>between US and Russia.

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<v Speaker 3>The US already does have a military base in Greenland,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's had a presence there for decades.

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<v Speaker 1>The US had dozens of installations military installations in Greenland

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<v Speaker 1>during the Cold War.

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<v Speaker 5>And then decided to scale back.

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<v Speaker 1>What's changed now is climate change. For one thing, the

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<v Speaker 1>Arctic ice is melting. It's opening up to new sea routes,

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<v Speaker 1>but also potentially hostile ships and submarines having easier access

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<v Speaker 1>to move through the region. Russia and China they are

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<v Speaker 1>expanding their Arctic presence, and Trump really sees Greenland as

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<v Speaker 1>a potential weak spot in the nation's defense.

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<v Speaker 2>The melting of the ice caps, right and kind of

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<v Speaker 2>the freeing up of essentially the Arctic Circle is absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>critical here, and I think from a defense department, from

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<v Speaker 2>a Pentagon perspective, is that is mission critical.

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<v Speaker 3>And the US could conceivably just set up more military

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<v Speaker 3>bases in Greenland, right. They have a fairly easy path

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<v Speaker 3>to do that under this nineteen fifty one treaty with Denmark.

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<v Speaker 3>Why doesn't the administration see that as enough from a

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<v Speaker 3>national security standpoint?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's the question that Danish officials and Greenlandic

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<v Speaker 1>officials have been asking all along. Their point is that

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<v Speaker 1>the US can achieve their aims in terms of national

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<v Speaker 1>security without taking control of Greenland. All it has to

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<v Speaker 1>do is come and set up a more military basis.

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<v Speaker 1>All it has to do is talk to Denmark about

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<v Speaker 1>what it is that it needs there, or talk to

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<v Speaker 1>Greenland as well about the possibilities and.

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<v Speaker 3>Joe, so, what are some of the other reasons that

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<v Speaker 3>Greenland might be strategically interesting to the Trump administration?

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<v Speaker 2>So critical minerals have been a key priority of his

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<v Speaker 2>current administration. You marry that key priority with the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that there is a wealth of critical minerals in Greenland.

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<v Speaker 2>It's nearly impossible to unlock at commercial scale right now,

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<v Speaker 2>but you've had a number of people trying to work

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<v Speaker 2>out a way to make that work. I mean, the

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<v Speaker 2>majority of the island is permafrost. You can't build anything

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<v Speaker 2>in permafrost. I think what you have is there's a

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<v Speaker 2>defense angle, there's a national security angle that's very real,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you also have people trying to find out

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<v Speaker 2>how to make a profit, right, you know. I think

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<v Speaker 2>on some of you just have people saying, Okay, well

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<v Speaker 2>let's see if you can get ours, and it's so crude,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think it's important to point out to people

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<v Speaker 2>that that's out there as well. I mean, you're seeing

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<v Speaker 2>it with Venezuela, You're seeing it with Ukraine. There is

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<v Speaker 2>money behind all of this.

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<v Speaker 3>We've heard a lot of variations from the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 3>about how they could actually bring Greenland closer. There's the

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<v Speaker 3>option of force business deals. Trump urged Greenland's voters to

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<v Speaker 3>choose the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>People in Greenland, many of them say, you know, listen,

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of independence sounds like a good idea. We'd

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<v Speaker 2>like that. But the idea that like we would trade

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<v Speaker 2>one European nation for a North American nation who quote

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<v Speaker 2>unquote rules US, that's equally as bad.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, If they want independence, they want independence. Is there

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<v Speaker 3>a new specific plan here that's emerging, Joe, what is

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<v Speaker 3>your latest reporting on how the US might pursue closer

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<v Speaker 3>ties with Greenland or a potential takeover.

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<v Speaker 2>My reporting so far has shown, according to people familiar,

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<v Speaker 2>nothing is changed, nothing's changed. Donald Trump mentioned Greenland again

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<v Speaker 2>a month ago. I was in Washington, DC catching up

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<v Speaker 2>with my sources there and I asked, among the many questions,

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<v Speaker 2>this was very much the end of the conversation type

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<v Speaker 2>of questions to these sources, who would know where is

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<v Speaker 2>Greenland right now in the pile of priorities? And the

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<v Speaker 2>overwhelming response was Greenland. I mean, it's at the bottom

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<v Speaker 2>of the pile. Nobody's talking about it right now. And

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<v Speaker 2>now he's mentioned it multiple times in the past week.

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<v Speaker 2>So in less than a month, we went from like

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<v Speaker 2>this is not a priority of the administration, they're not

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<v Speaker 2>talking about it to Donald Trump is talking about it

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<v Speaker 2>seemingly every day, and we go back to the reporting

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<v Speaker 2>that we had, which was when he announced it, White

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<v Speaker 2>House staffers were scrambling. You know, you got to present

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<v Speaker 2>something to Donald Trump, to the President of the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>when he says, I've got a thing behind this.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So your latest reporting is that what these officials

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<v Speaker 3>are looking to present our potential business deals that could

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<v Speaker 3>give the US a greater footprint on the island, like

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<v Speaker 3>rare earth minerals, mining projects, or hydro electric power ventures.

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<v Speaker 3>And at the same time, Rubio reportedly told lawmakers this

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<v Speaker 3>week that the US wants to buy Greenland. How could

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<v Speaker 3>something like that even work?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, for a transaction to happen, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to have the a seller and a buyer who

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<v Speaker 2>are both willing to transact. And right now, Denmark has

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<v Speaker 2>made it very clear that they're not a willing seller.

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<v Speaker 2>So if this, if the supposed seller is not even

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<v Speaker 2>at the table, like, then there's no transaction that can occur.

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<v Speaker 2>And if we go back to this idea that like

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<v Speaker 2>the US is not going to use force, then we're

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of at the same standstill that we've been

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<v Speaker 2>the whole time. You know, I guess the two be

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<v Speaker 2>sure on this, is it goes back to the Stephen

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<v Speaker 2>Miller interview where he said, you know, basically like we're

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<v Speaker 2>not taking anything off the table here, right, But then

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<v Speaker 2>he also said, and why would we take Greenland by force?

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<v Speaker 2>If we want it, we don't have to take it

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<v Speaker 2>by force, with the idea being that you just show

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<v Speaker 2>up on the shores and you just say, okay, it's

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<v Speaker 2>ours now, you know, assuming that nobody is going to resist.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, then I don't know, you get into such

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<v Speaker 2>uncharted territory. It's such a hypothetical, it's almost like dangerous

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<v Speaker 2>to even like contemplate what we're talking about here.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, But on Tuesday night, the White House issued the

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<v Speaker 3>statement saying, quote utilizing the US military is always an

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<v Speaker 3>option unquote when it comes to Greenland. Sona, What are

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<v Speaker 3>we hearing from Danish officials about all of this, How

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<v Speaker 3>are they interpreting the White House's intentions, and what path

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<v Speaker 3>forward do they see as the most likely at this stage.

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<v Speaker 5>They've reacted very strongly.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the Danish Prime Minister has been out several

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<v Speaker 1>times in the past week telling Trump to stop issuing

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<v Speaker 1>threats against Greenland, reiterating previous points that it is up

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<v Speaker 1>to Greenland to decide its own future. At this stage,

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<v Speaker 1>Danish officials hope that they can talk to Trump and

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<v Speaker 1>dismantle some of the arguments that he has for taking

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<v Speaker 1>control of Greenland. They believe that Trump is painting a

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<v Speaker 1>completely wrong picture of the situation. Trump has said that

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<v Speaker 1>Chinese and Russian ships are everywhere around Greenland.

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<v Speaker 5>Denmark says that's wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Trump has said that Denmark hasn't invested in Greenland's defenses.

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<v Speaker 1>Denmark says that's wrong too. So they're really hoping that

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<v Speaker 1>they can help clarify things and talk about a diplomatic

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<v Speaker 1>solution going forward. It could be that they would enter

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<v Speaker 1>a deal over the US expanding its military presence in

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<v Speaker 1>Greenland under existing treaties, so he could do that without

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<v Speaker 1>getting into too much trouble with NATO. That's not a

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<v Speaker 1>scenario that Danish officials are necessarily hoping for, but they

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<v Speaker 1>have said that they're open to the US expanding of

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<v Speaker 1>boosting its presence in Greenland.

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<v Speaker 3>There's an idea coming from the Trump administration that a

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<v Speaker 3>US takeover of Greenland would benefit NATO, the Western military

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<v Speaker 3>alliance intended to keep Russia in check. Stephen Miller made

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<v Speaker 3>that case to CNN's Jake Tapper, the.

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<v Speaker 6>United States is the power of NATO, for the United

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<v Speaker 6>States to secure the Arctic region, to protect and defend

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<v Speaker 6>NATO and NATO interest. Obviously Greenland should be part of

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<v Speaker 6>the United States. And so that's a conversation that we're

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<v Speaker 6>going to have.

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<v Speaker 3>After the break. How NATO is responding to the White

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<v Speaker 3>House's Greenland messaging and what it all means for European

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<v Speaker 3>security and global geopolitics. In the more than seventy five

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<v Speaker 3>years since NATO's creation, never has one member threatened to

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<v Speaker 3>take territory from another, So Bloomberg, Son of US, says,

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<v Speaker 3>the White House's comments about a US takeover of Greenland

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<v Speaker 3>have raised existential questions for NATO.

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<v Speaker 1>Danish Prime Minister metaphors and has said if Trump decides

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<v Speaker 1>to attack a NATO ally, that.

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<v Speaker 5>Would essentially mean the end to NATO.

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<v Speaker 1>What I also think is happening now is that Trump

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<v Speaker 1>is really testing EU unity, European unity. Big question mark

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<v Speaker 1>is what happens if he actually moves into Greenland. It

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:43.040
<v Speaker 1>would force Denmark to turn to its EU partners for support,

0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:48.880
<v Speaker 1>but essentially then force European countries to choose between protecting

0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Greenland or maintaining relationships with Washington, and Europe doesn't really

0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.440
<v Speaker 1>have the military strength to take on the US, so

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 1>it would create a mass dilemma for many countries and

0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.400
<v Speaker 1>it would really really test the EU's strength and unity.

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.440
<v Speaker 3>I mean, even if the US's rhetoric doesn't rise to

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 3>the level of military action, what kind of damage or

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.200
<v Speaker 3>questions has this raised for the organization moving forward?

0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, in Denmark there is a big frustration that

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 1>NATO countries are focusing all the energy on these internal conflicts.

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure Putin is following this closely on the sideline

0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:39.080
<v Speaker 1>and just waiting for NATO to completely break down. Even

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.640
<v Speaker 1>if Trump doesn't do anything about Greenland, the threat is

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:48.520
<v Speaker 1>just creating internal conflict that will be an advantage for him.

0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 1>And Denmark has faced a lot of issues Russia's shadow

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 1>fleet and drone attacks that is now being investigated as

0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:58.120
<v Speaker 1>possibly coming from Russia.

0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 3>Russia is obviously under its own pressure for its incursions

0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 3>into Ukraine. How is Russia reading this? Does it embolden Russia?

0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I think there's probably a couple of ways to look

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.160
<v Speaker 2>at it, which is one, there's a vacuum where Putin

0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.880
<v Speaker 2>sees this as some sort of justification that you can

0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of do what you want to do. I think

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.160
<v Speaker 2>this was a concern among you know, geopolitical experts in

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:28.120
<v Speaker 2>the weekend over the US removing Maduro from physically removing

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.320
<v Speaker 2>this man from from Venezuela. I think there's another world

0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 2>where you look at it from like the Donald Trump

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.280
<v Speaker 2>hawk point of view, which is we are flexing muscle

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 2>and showing our power, you know, all the way down

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 2>to our special ops.

0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is kind of an incredible extraction since

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.280
<v Speaker 2>the signal to Vladimir Putin and in Russia. I mean,

0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I think Donald Trump, even during his first term, he

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.360
<v Speaker 2>uses kind of a strong man rhetoric, right, and he's

0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.040
<v Speaker 2>also an in some ways back to that up right,

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.640
<v Speaker 2>the bombings of Iran back in the summer. This action, right,

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 2>on some level, it does show to important power players

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:17.200
<v Speaker 2>what the United States is capable of. Does it work?

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:22.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, Santa.

0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.680
<v Speaker 3>For Greenland, where do things go from here?

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 5>Denmark and Greenland.

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Now they've asked Marco Rubeu for a meeting, and that's

0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:35.880
<v Speaker 1>for sure something that we'll be following. According to greenlandic officials,

0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 1>they've been trying to get a meeting with him for

0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 1>the past year, but without any luck. I mean Greenland's

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.120
<v Speaker 1>Prime Minister yainsphag Nielson. He's been out telling his people

0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 1>not to panic. He has said that Trump's comments are

0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.480
<v Speaker 1>disrespectful and unacceptable, and he has also made it very

0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>clear that Greenland does not want to become a part

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 1>of the US, and most a large majority of Greenlanders

0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:04.080
<v Speaker 1>agree with him on that.

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.479
<v Speaker 5>But he's clearly also training carefully.

0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:12.560
<v Speaker 1>And in his statements it keeps on saying we are

0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 1>open to dialogue, We're open to business. The Greenlandic economy

0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:21.640
<v Speaker 1>it is understrained. They would really like to trade more

0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.240
<v Speaker 1>with the US, They would like to get more investments

0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:29.919
<v Speaker 1>from the US, so they may also Greenlanders may also

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.040
<v Speaker 1>see maybe some opportunities not to give up control of

0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 1>their country, but to enter some deals and actually gain

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 1>some economic benefits that way. The biggest challenge to this

0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:48.760
<v Speaker 1>happening now is that Donald Trump's threats have made Greenlanders afraid,

0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 1>so it's really making it challenging for Greenlandic politicians to

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.919
<v Speaker 1>enter into any negotiations dialogue with Donald Trump.

0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Denmark has said, we will do what we need to do.

0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.960
<v Speaker 2>You tell us you can put more bases on Greenland.

0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Just talk to us about it. I do think we're

0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.880
<v Speaker 2>in uncharted territory and you do have to start kind

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.960
<v Speaker 2>of connecting dots because like Donald Trump himself is not

0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.320
<v Speaker 2>telling us. And I mean, as our reporting says, like

0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.679
<v Speaker 2>it seems like White House staffers don't even really know.

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:22.439
<v Speaker 2>So how are how are we?

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 3>Like?

0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:23.840
<v Speaker 2>How is anyone else gonna know?

0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 3>This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.280
<v Speaker 3>To get more from the Big Take and unlimited access

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.200
<v Speaker 3>to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.240
<v Speaker 3>dot com Slash podcast offer. Thanks for listening. We'll be

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:46.880
<v Speaker 3>back tomorrow