1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and welcome to stuff I Never 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: told you production of iHeartRadio and welcome to another classic. 3 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: I am a solo today, but Samantha will be back soon. 4 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: In this episode I wanted to bring back even though 5 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of recent and kind of more specific to 6 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: the tech industry. But unfortunately here in the United States, 7 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: we are seeing a lot of layoffs right now, a 8 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: lot of people losing their jobs as this comes out. 9 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm recording it on October twenty eighth, twenty twenty five, 10 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: but it's coming out a little bit later. The government, 11 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: the US government is still shut down, and it has 12 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: been used as an excuse to not only fire or 13 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: lay off a lot of people, but also to particularly 14 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: target things organizations or jobs that are in any way 15 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: about helping women or helping marginalize people. And so even 16 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: if the numbers aren't there yet because the government is 17 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: shut down so they stop reporting on that, we do 18 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: know that that is happening and that that does have 19 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: a larger impact on marginalized people and women. So it's 20 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: something that we're going to have to keep an eye on, 21 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: and it's something that's really sad because that's just decades 22 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: of work that's being lost in some cases, like I 23 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: have people I know who worked in some of those 24 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: sectors and they are just devastated because that's they'd finally 25 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: built up on all of this, finally got to this point. 26 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: You know, we've recently talked about that with We're finally 27 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: studying actually women and their health, and this backtracking is 28 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: just really upsetting. So, as I said, even though this 29 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: episode is a bit more specific, I just wanted to 30 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: bring it back. And also I hope everyone out there 31 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: is okay. If you've lost your job, I'm really sorry. 32 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: And if you have anything you want to write in 33 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: about that you think we should talk about, or any 34 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: resources you would like us to share, please let us know. 35 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, here is this classic episode. Hey, 36 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff I've 37 00:02:50,960 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: never told you production of iHeart Radio. Content. Warning, as 38 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: the title suggests, we are talking about layoffs and losing 39 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: a job just not fun. Have you ever been laid 40 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: off or fired, Samantha. 41 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: Yes, I have rood of you to ask, but I'm 42 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: going to tell you anyway. But essentially I think it 43 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: was more pragmatic and it's just the timing of everything, 44 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 2: but it did feel great. I did get unemployment though 45 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 2: for a while. Oh, that was an interesting process. 46 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: That's that's nice. You'll have to tell me because we 47 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: are going to talk about that briefly. Yeah, in here 48 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: you'll have to tell me about that. I have never 49 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: been laid off. I have lost a position before where 50 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: they were like, you're just not good at this, why 51 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: don't you do this? That's all right, you've been re arranged. 52 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: I was rearranged. I kind of feel like I was 53 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: stell fired from Longhorned Steakhouse, which. 54 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: I told that story before, Like you didn't even though 55 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: I both. 56 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: Feel I was still fired, but also I wasn't showing up, 57 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: so there was no official process. We just both kind 58 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: of ghosted to each other. 59 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to think if I have ever had that. 60 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I've always put in my notice 61 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 2: and left. 62 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: I had I've worked for a company that went I 63 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 1: don't think it went under, but something happened where within 64 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: the first week I didn't have a job. Yeah, but 65 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I was. It felt like that 66 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: whole thing just went away, so right, but I had 67 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: to go find another job quickly. Because I was in 68 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: Europe and I was anticipating That's why I was there, 69 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: and I did. I was very fortunate. Yes, we've through 70 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: the time I've worked at this company, which long. 71 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: Time now, Yeah, I kind of forget you have other jobs. 72 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: You've ever had other jobs, That's right. 73 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: It feels weird to me too, to remember. We have 74 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: had rounds of layoffs and it is scary. We had 75 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: a pretty emotional one when I was an intern, where 76 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: like I was young and I didn't it was my 77 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: first time I think ever when at this particular instance, 78 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: they like sat us all in a room and told 79 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: us about it and that people were crying and like 80 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: people were packing up, and. 81 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that you feel like, well, it's just 82 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 3: a very destabilizing feeling. Yeah, And we recently had around 83 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: the layoffs here and several of my friends were laid off. 84 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: So it is it's scary, and there have been there's 85 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: been a lot of stuff written about what's happening in 86 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: the tech industry, specifically with a lot of the layoffs 87 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: that have It kind of started in twenty twenty but 88 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four were a big 89 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: year for les unfortunately, and they impacted more women and 90 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: marginalized folks, and we're going to talk about that and 91 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: why that is. I would say you can check out 92 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: our past episode spoiler alert on pregnancy discrimination, our work 93 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: from home episodes Women and Unions perhaps, and the episode 94 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: we did What's Happening at Blizzard which we should update 95 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: that one. Oh my, but okay, so yes, for this, 96 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: we're specifically looking at several rounds of tech and journalism 97 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,679 Speaker 1: layoffs that happened this year and how they have disproportionately 98 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: impacted women and people of color and throughout the year, 99 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: this year being twenty twenty four, we have seen several 100 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: high profile rounds of layoffs and we're going to look 101 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: at a few examples that highlight some troubling trends. 102 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: Right and some baseline numbers to start off here. Since 103 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: the beginning of twenty twenty three, huge companies like Google, Meta, 104 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: and Amazon have laid off tens of thousands of their employees. 105 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: More recently, Tesla laid off fourteen thousand. The amount of 106 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 2: jobs lost in the tech sectors are estimated to be 107 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 2: upwards of three hundred and forty thousand, and the number 108 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: has sense grown yep. 109 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: In April of twenty twenty four, Tesla fired the five 110 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: hundred ish members of their supercharger team, including the top 111 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: woman manager, Rebecca Tanucci, who was the company's top female employee. 112 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: Allegedly Elon Musk, who if you somehow managed to avoid it, 113 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: in which case, congrats to you. Runs tell us your 114 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: secreta secret, that's his company. He sent out a questionnaire 115 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: requiring managers to justify their human resources with an email 116 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: that contained the line, hopefully these actions are making it 117 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: clear that we need to be absolutely hardcore about headcount 118 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: and cost reduction. Meanwhile, many industry journalists reported that this 119 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: action made no sense for the success of Tesla, like 120 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: that was a big project. It didn't make sense. Another 121 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: Elon Musk company, Twitter, slash X, also saw mass layoffs 122 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: fifty seven percent of those layoffs for women, and that 123 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: that company is embroiled in so many lawsuits and some 124 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: of them are about that right. 125 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: Just especially with the amount of money this specific dude 126 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: gets for doing nothing. But reek havoc. I mean, you're 127 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: going to say, probably tens of thousands of jobs just 128 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: by cutting your salary in half. Other companies like Dell 129 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: have been accused of stealth layoffs targeting women. With their 130 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: return to office policies in early twenty twenty four, they 131 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: gave their employees two options, a hybrid option of coming 132 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 2: into the office and working remotely or continuing to work 133 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: completely remotely. However, choosing that option came with penalties, so 134 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: one of them were quote no funding for team on 135 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 2: site meetings, even if a large portion of the team 136 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: is flying in for a meeting from other Dell locations, 137 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: no career advancement, no career movements, and remote status will 138 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: be considered when planning or organization changes aka workforce reductions. 139 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: Yes, and according to one employee interviewed, if someone got 140 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: promotion while working remotely, it required them to come in 141 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: thirty nine days every quarter to accept it. And just 142 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: a note, Dell wasn't even necessarily providing these offices or 143 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: they didn't have enough space, I guess, and working remotely 144 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: was and had been a part of their hiring policy. 145 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: Was how they hired a lot of people who were like, 146 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: I just want to work remote, and they're like, we 147 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: got you. We're a cool company, and that's great. 148 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 2: For the cool mobs. 149 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, they kind of they were all about. 150 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 2: It, and which is what tech does I feel like? 151 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: And Dell is such like the boomer of tech company. 152 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: Let's just be really honest. It's like they're like, look, 153 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: look we're cool. Not only can you work from home, 154 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: but yes we originated with the open spaces and the 155 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: unlimited PTO which you really can't take, and snacks and 156 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: maybe a cool concert here and there. 157 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're gonna in a second, but yes, this 158 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: is pretty It's pretty ridiculous though, because this is from 159 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: the standard you were reading, Samantha. Those that was from 160 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: like an official Dell email and to say like JB, 161 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: well you better come in or you're not going to 162 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: get any career advancement, and you're going to be the 163 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: first we consider when we're thinking about cutting our workforce. 164 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: And as we did discuss in our women working remotely episode, 165 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: it does benefit a lot of women, especially if there's 166 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: childcare involves. I mean, obviously that still sucks if you 167 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: have to work while doing child care, but it is 168 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: a way that people were able to have these jobs 169 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: where maybe they couldn't before. Okay. In November of twenty 170 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: twenty three, a woman laid off from Octa in twenty 171 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: twenty filed a civil suit in San Francisco Superior Court. 172 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: She alleged that, along with other women, she came forward 173 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: with concerns about gender discrimination and then after that her 174 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,599 Speaker 1: views dropped drastically until she was eventually fired, and the 175 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: suit claimed that women experience quote, severe bias and inequity. 176 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: The lawsuit read, like other women, missus Ho was encouraged 177 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: to speak up and was told that this is a 178 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: safe place to tell all that it was a big trap. 179 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: Once she found courage to speak, she was retaliated against. 180 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: And that's in the larger conversation about retaliation that were 181 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: not necessarily getting into today, but that is part of this. 182 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: While a lot of what we are talking about is 183 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: tech specific, journalism also has been really impacted and in 184 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, a lot of that industry has 185 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: become a tech industry. In early twenty twenty four, a 186 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: wave of layoffs hit the journalism industry, and people raise 187 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: the alarm that a lot of them hit women and 188 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: people of color, and how that was going to negatively 189 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: impact the landscape of our news and information was being 190 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: reported on how it's being written. According to the Coalition 191 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: for Women in Journalism, they reported that there were seventeen 192 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: thousand layoffs in this space in twenty twenty three. Entertainment 193 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: companies like Netflix and Disney also have similar conversations to 194 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: be had, but those are very different episode. Also, this 195 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: is not at all just a US problem, but we 196 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: are talking mainly about US based companies today, and a 197 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: lot of those companies are so big people all over 198 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: the world work for them. And a lot of this 199 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: has been underscored by the fact that when many of 200 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: these companies were just getting started, they were mostly run 201 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: and staffed by white men. As more attention land on 202 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: that point, as more people were like, hey, it's the 203 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: calls for change grew, these companies made bold promises and 204 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: being more inclusive in their hiring practices in the twenty tens, 205 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,599 Speaker 1: especially as they got bigger and made more money and 206 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: became more structured in corporate but a lot of them 207 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: were still really famous for the yeah, the thinking outside 208 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: the box in terms of office life, of like happy 209 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: hours and gaming areas and bowling alleys and movie theaters, 210 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: all of that stuff that in a lot of ways 211 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: didn't suit women, especially if they had kids. But even 212 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: things like feeling safe with your employees or employers after 213 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: hours or getting home late, and that's what we talked 214 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: about in the Blizzard episode, kind of the difference between 215 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: a woman going to a conference and having a drink 216 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: versus a man doing it, and how it can look 217 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: really gross in office space. On top of that, a 218 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: lot of companies supported and encouraged people moving during the pandemic, 219 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: and we've discussed it before, but those policies again did 220 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: benefit a lot of women and marginalized people. So one 221 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: of the things that can get kind of lost is 222 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: that some of the numbers indicate more men were laid 223 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: off in these cases percentage wise, but the key thing 224 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: is women often represent less percentage wise than the workforce. 225 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: So for instance, in one analysis of three four hundred 226 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: people laid off, fifty five percent were men, forty five 227 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: percent were women. However, women only made up thirty nine 228 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: percent of the total workforce, so it impacted them far more. 229 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: Some estimates put the number of women laid off as 230 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: higher in the women in the industry also as lower. 231 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: So a piece of this is that women are more 232 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: likely to get hired in positions that are more easily 233 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: cut at least to the higher ups, like customer service 234 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: or HR. When it comes to seniority too, men are 235 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: more likely to have been there longer. This isn't even 236 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: touching on women or marginalized folks who left because of 237 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: burnout or harassment. 238 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: Other episodes we've done, Yes, yep. Studies show that women 239 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: are less financially prepared for layoffs than men, and this 240 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: could be because of a lot of things like the 241 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: ginger wage gap, pink techs, all kinds of stuff. Women 242 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: who relocate for their spouses, especially in the military, are 243 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: disproportionately impacted too, and this brings us to the pregnancy 244 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: discrimination part. In the wake of the tech layoffs that 245 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: happened in May of twenty twenty four, a disturbing number 246 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: of accounts about pregnant folks, people with postpartum or on 247 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: parental leave came out, about them being a large percentage 248 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: or a significant percentage of the ones that were cut 249 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: in terms of the number that they represented. Lawyers reported 250 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: receiving calls about pregnancy discrimination across the country. However, there 251 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: just aren't safeguards in place specifically protecting pregnant folks or 252 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: people on parental leave under the grounds of business necessities. 253 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: The discrimination is difficult to prove in the face of 254 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: mass layoffs too. But the thing is like a lot 255 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: of these big companies use their parental leave plans to 256 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: attract new employees too, especially women. But in these recent 257 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: waves of layoffs, a lot of the people who were 258 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: laid off were women, especially women on leave, So it 259 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be matching up right. 260 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: And that's not even the conversation about like FLSA and 261 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: what you have to do to qualify for that and 262 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: how to get through that and how to fire before 263 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: getting with that. So it's really scary to lose your 264 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: job at any time, but especially when you've had a 265 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 2: big life change like having a kid, that is going 266 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: to put more financial pressure on you and your family. 267 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 2: On top of that, if you have a baby and 268 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 2: no access to childcare, is going to be difficult, if 269 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 2: not impossible, to get a new job for at least 270 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 2: a little while. 271 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: Yes, and so this also goes back to a point 272 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: we've discussed before, but a lot of these companies just 273 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: put into place these diversity equity inclusion DEI initiatives around 274 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: women and people of color and LGBTQ plus people and 275 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: people with disabilities, but without really making any change to 276 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: how the company functioned to make those things work. Look, 277 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: they didn't think it out beyond just saying, yeah, we're 278 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: going to do this, or to account for the reality 279 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: of what being truly inclusive would mean. So we've also 280 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: seen a lot of companies doing away with those initiatives entirely. 281 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: In recent years. It's become something of a controversial issue 282 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: in our political landscape. 283 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: That's literally a platform like that people are using to 284 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: be like I should be your governor, your congressman, your 285 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: board of directors, whatever, Like it's absurd, like I will 286 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 2: get rid of DEI. I mean, we need to come 287 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: back and talk about the fact that the damn Asian 288 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: person who was puppet essentially coming after DEI initiatives and 289 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: inclusivity initiatives for higher education and now the number of 290 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: Asian students being accepted has lowered, no other numbers, just 291 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: the Asians. I'm like, yeah, that's what you get. 292 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And there's a lot, there's a lot going 293 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: on with this, because it really does feel to me 294 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: that well, I mean, number one, obviously most obviously their companies, 295 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: and they want to make money, and they thought like 296 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: saying these things would make them money. 297 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 2: And they still do even during this time when it 298 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: like when it benefits them, aka like pride parades are like, 299 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: we're going to be in here even though we've already 300 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: backtracked in all of these policies, right, And it's. 301 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: Like the second that it becomes oh they're striking or 302 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: oh they're doing this, we don't need this, and it's 303 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: just like they're just saying it to get the points 304 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: and then not doing anything about it. But I also 305 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: truly do think they didn't even think it through about 306 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: how this would work or look, or they didn't want 307 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: to mess up with their their boys club, bowling alleys 308 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: or whatever. 309 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 2: Right they're happy hours. 310 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And there are a couple of like 311 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: key things people have written about we've spoken about on 312 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: the show. One is the importance of mentors in spaces 313 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: like this, but if all the mentors are white men, 314 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: doesn't really work. And then there is the myth of 315 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: the white male genius who, so I can never make 316 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: a mistake, is like the god of whatever company. Uh. 317 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: And then so even when they clearly do make mistake, 318 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: they never face these consequences, but everyone else who is 319 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: not there. 320 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 2: Does, right, I mean the president again? 321 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I laugh because I'm miserable. There's also going 322 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: back to what you kind of mention Smith, that there's 323 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: this this return that we're seeing happen to hardcore bro culture. 324 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: And so Elon Musk is a great example because when 325 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: he took over Twitter, he was like boasting about you're 326 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: going to sleep at work, You're gonna be working all 327 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: the time. You're like all of these things, as if 328 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: this is a good thing, right, But that is that 329 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: was the myth of a lot of these companies that 330 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: started to startups was like you lived there, That's yeah, 331 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: that's how it worked. But it's strange because that company 332 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: was successful, right. 333 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: But you start looking at the companies that have this 334 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 2: these thought processes. They made a whole freaking movie on 335 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: Facebook alone, and you realize the majority of the success 336 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: comes from stealing things from people. Yeah, more than that, 337 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: like not Napster, all of those things. You're like, wait, 338 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 2: these boys are not geniuses. They just know how to 339 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 2: get away with stealing. 340 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: Exactly and exactly they are taking credit, yeah, just taking 341 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: credit for other people's. 342 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: Work, right, and Elon Musk Bezos is the same thing. 343 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 2: And then I know you're about to get into it, 344 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 2: but it's amazing, this whole mentality, like you have to 345 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: dedicate your life for a company, but we're not going 346 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: to reward you obviously, And like even the fact that 347 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: Amazon had that whole day they could not go take 348 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 2: back and breaks, so they were peeing in bottles, and 349 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 2: of course women can't freaking do that really at all. 350 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 2: And they have this mentality that if you leave that 351 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 2: station and you are stealing time, stealing time from work, yeah, 352 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 2: which is absurd, being paid for not working. You're like, 353 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: that's not how this works. And we're backtracking on all 354 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 2: these things that were protected so that people could have 355 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: access to be human, right in this whole culture of like, no, 356 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: but if you really care about making money, if you 357 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 2: really want to be successful. 358 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: This is what you do right, right, And if you can't, 359 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: if you can't hack it, then get it, then. 360 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: You're going to be fired and will replace you. 361 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: You're easily replaceable, exactly, exactly, And it's just it's bizarre 362 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: also because of course they try to paint it as 363 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: if you were being weak women. You're like, really, you 364 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: think people just want to sleep at work or eat more. 365 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 2: Like you think that this is a thing that they 366 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 2: like being human once again is a detriment like eating right, 367 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, we are hungry. You cannot live that way. 368 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: We've had people die recently, a couple of incidences at work, 369 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 2: and no one found them because they did not care 370 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: about these people. 371 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the thing is like, you know, Elon 372 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: Musk is gonna be fine, essentially, like even. 373 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 2: With the millions that he's gonna be sued. He may 374 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 2: be sued, he may go to courts and may even 375 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 2: go to jail. He'll still be fine. 376 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: He'll be fine. And so he's just asking his employees 377 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: to fix something he broke and bruin your life while 378 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: doing it. 379 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: He's broken in so many times. Can we talk about 380 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 2: how moody his whole thing is, Like the whole new 381 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: block thing is rumored that because he didn't want he 382 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 2: wanted his ex wife's access to hit her account, and 383 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 2: is she blocked in and so the reason that they 384 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 2: changed that up recently is so that he could still 385 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: access her stuff. 386 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: That's the rumor, isn't that Like that comes up an 387 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: embarrassing amount for you white male geniuses, is that it 388 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: was a woman that hurt you somewhere and so. 389 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 2: Therefore he has to do all these things in retaliation. 390 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: I'm like, how petty he's going to be. And You're like, 391 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: so you changed the whole blocking access, which did not 392 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 2: that's the one thing that didn't really need to be 393 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: fixed because you were upset that you could not see 394 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: your ex wife's content. Really again, rumors, this is not. 395 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: Surprise me. 396 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 2: But I'm like, it's really coincidental. 397 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: It would not surprise me at all. What I mean. Also, 398 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: I want to come back and do an episode on this. 399 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: But when I say like return to this hardcore bro culture, 400 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: it's happening online as well, and it's happening in a 401 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: lot of spaces that some of them we've touched on. 402 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: I've seen some around the world that are happening. But 403 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: a part of it is because of this, because of 404 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: people like Elon Musk who come in and do all 405 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: these terrible things, Fire all the people of color, fire 406 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: all the women. And so the technology that is people 407 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: are using is really boosting that content, and it's been 408 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: sadly effective in a lot of ways. But yeah, that 409 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: kind of were we got away from it for a minute. 410 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: But then I also I was reading a very depressing 411 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: article about this, but Essentially it kind of snapped backwards 412 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: in the way so many of these things often do 413 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: for a lot to for reasons, but. 414 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think I wonder if it just looked that 415 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 2: way once again. It was just a pay perspective, because 416 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: when we talked about the Google creator and content developer 417 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 2: and the things that she went through, she was like, 418 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 2: a this AI stuff is not going to go well, 419 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: this's going to be racist and we should not be 420 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 2: doing any of these things. And she immediately got fired 421 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: and everybody's etcter like it was always there, but it 422 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,719 Speaker 2: was better hidden, and now just people just don't care anymore, 423 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: especially with the fact that the government allows so much 424 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 2: leeway for tech companies to do whatever the hell they want, 425 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: which is a whole different conversation that we've repeatedly have 426 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: had to have, and no one's really talking about these issues, 427 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 2: Like I've really upset and concerned that we are. Again. 428 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: Abortion is a huge issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm 429 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 2: not talking about that. Queer rights huge issues, but all 430 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: these things are happening, but we're like, what about the 431 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 2: underlying things that we need to talk about with each 432 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 2: one of these Congress people, which a few people have 433 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 2: brought up, including John Ossoft being like, ay, so we 434 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 2: should not allow government officials to be a part of 435 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: the stocks, but that should not be able to practice 436 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: in trading because there's some really shady stuff happening. And 437 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: I completely agree with that on both sides. This is 438 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 2: where I'm like, this whole system is corrupt, So I 439 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 2: have a whole like, ah, yes, I am far leading 440 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 2: left and I am losing it, like I am going 441 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 2: faster on that track because we are seeing like even 442 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 2: the people that we were supposed to trust and that 443 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: we put on pedestals, and we're so proud of calling 444 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 2: our representatives or at least like representatives in the States, like, oh, 445 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 2: but you just made tons of money on this one 446 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 2: thing that really hurts the American people. 447 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: And you know this. 448 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 2: That's why like cracking and those issues are such a 449 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: hug just because you are putting money and banking on 450 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 2: how much money you're going to make and using your policies. 451 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,479 Speaker 2: So all these conversations that this is a huge thing 452 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 2: we should be looking at, but we haven't really even 453 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 2: considered it at all. And I say we, including myself, 454 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 2: because we have to look at the You're a huge 455 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 2: victor first to save democracy. Second, yeah, we'll come back 456 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 2: to the big issues with like the constitutional stuff at 457 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. And then thirdly we'll come to these 458 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 2: other things of like why are they doing this and 459 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 2: whose interest this is for? 460 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's the thing too, is like a lot 461 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: of these big companies they do get occasionally, they do 462 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: get fined, but for them, it's nothing like it's. 463 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: It's better to be fined than to correct something and 464 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 2: do something that's better for the people. Like that's right, 465 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: that's this is the biggest concern. Is like even with 466 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: the small companies that had good intent, they've grown into 467 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 2: such big companies that have been taken over and or 468 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 2: that have made enough money that they're like, I don't 469 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 2: care anymore. This is that makes me sad. But the 470 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 2: fact that all of these things are happening and these 471 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: big tech companies do not care. They would rather have 472 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 2: a fine and have a whole like smear campaign about 473 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 2: the fact that they are sexist and racist and like 474 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: all of like anti LGBT, like all of those things 475 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: that homophobic as hell. They don't care because it still 476 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 2: makes the money and it doesn't do it much like 477 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 2: because the governments and or policies have held them up 478 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: and being like yeah, yea, but you can still do that. 479 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 2: That's racist, but it'll probably help us in the end 480 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 2: and we can we can make better jobs, bigger, more jobs, 481 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: and events, which is not true. But like all of 482 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 2: these conversations that I'm like, yeah, that's part of the 483 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 2: big problem is that these companies will never change because 484 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 2: they're never ever and they're also not taxed correctly. Yeah. 485 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well that's the whole secret. I know. 486 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 2: I'm opening up both all these doors. But like when 487 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: we see these conversations, these layofs why they don't care 488 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: and they put on like the lipstick on the pig 489 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: type of conversation is literally like that's what they do, 490 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 2: and knowing that, they'll just talk about the next company 491 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 2: that does it. Yeah, and we'll be lumped in here, 492 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: but they'll they'll forget because there's so many of us 493 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 2: and they can't do anything to all of us because 494 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: the policies protect. 495 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: Us, right right, And it does, I mean so many 496 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: there are so many things in place like this, coming 497 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: back to coming back to the office and coming back 498 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: to the like hardcore pro culture. I mean, it does 499 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: these models. So many of these models, even with the 500 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: like oh now we're open space, do favor men. They 501 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: were designed with men and mine, right, And so having 502 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: this idea of like coming into the office that's better. 503 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: It shows that you like, really care and like even 504 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: if they won't, they'll tell you, well, it won't penalize you. 505 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: But if you don't come in, they do, even if 506 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: it's not purposeful, even if it's like just in the 507 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: back of someone subconscious. 508 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: Right, the more you're seeing, the more you're likely to 509 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 2: be remembered. This is kind of that conversation too. But 510 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 2: if I had it interesting, I'm going to go back 511 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: to Ireland experience. The last time we were in the 512 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 2: studio and we had Maya, our executive producer, who was 513 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 2: a powerhouse. I didn't know, like, I didn't know how 514 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 2: strong she really was. So I'm willing to stand up 515 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 2: for like what she felt was a wrong. But the 516 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 2: fact is, have we not? We were being pushed over 517 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 2: for men, like it was so interesting how quickly people 518 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 2: wanted to side with a bigger name, any of those 519 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 2: like on there's two separate sides. There's a radio side 520 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: and there is a podcast side. This was one of 521 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: the things that came together during the pandemic in hopes 522 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: that they could save money. Ab they're being like, we're 523 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: gonna be working from home anyway, so it's fine. Then 524 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 2: they started being like, come back into work. We were 525 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 2: like why, but then like, we did come back to work, 526 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: and the moment we did, we were like being pushed 527 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 2: as a secondary in comparison to a bigger, like male 528 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: group of broadcasters. It wasn't their fault, but everything they 529 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 2: were doing was literally like, no, but but we were 530 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 2: more important. Oh no, but yeah, we have a system 531 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: where it's set ups to sign things up on like 532 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 2: a whole big calendar. But that's that doesn't matter unless 533 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 2: because we are more important. It was a whole different 534 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: like and I feel like most of that and this 535 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 2: is again on us, but at the same time on society, 536 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 2: where we were like, oh, okay, okay, we don't want 537 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 2: to cause conflict, We'll move okay, okay, but Maa being like, 538 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 2: oh hell no, no, no, I will fight with you. 539 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 2: I will fight with the heads in here. 540 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 3: Let's go. 541 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 2: And she made sure to get put the respect and 542 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: she's like, we being like, you are disrespecting us, and 543 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: she never really says that she was just like, this 544 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 2: is absurd, this is not how it goes. We need 545 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 2: to set a boundary. And I was like, damn okay, 546 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: because it's like societally we would have just moved on, 547 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 2: like that was what we have always been told. We've 548 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 2: even in the old office, there's moments we were. 549 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: Like, why is this happening? 550 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 2: We have to shrink and people wonder why, and then 551 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: when we did, and I was like they impressive, Like 552 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: everything worked out. But it just feels like that type 553 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 2: of culture is what we have seen so often. Yeah, 554 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 2: in like the likes of any like any space. And 555 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: I'm not saying anything bad about our company necessarily in 556 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 2: this in this specific moment, but like things like this 557 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: have continued to happen in the office to the point 558 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: that this is why Maya was like, I'm done, I'm 559 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: done well, and. 560 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: It's like this was a very particular instance. But in 561 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: this instance, uh, everyone involved had done everything right, everything correctly. 562 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: We had the space, many of the other most of 563 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: other studios were open, so it was it wasn't it 564 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: was odd. It was odd. A lot of threads here, obviously, 565 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: but I'm glad. I'm so glad Maya stood up and 566 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: before it worked out fine, but it took time out 567 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: of our day and I ended up getting home I 568 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: think three hours later then I had planned, right, and 569 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: that was unnecessary. It was unnecessary. It was a waste 570 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: of time, right. 571 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: And honestly, like in this like scope of what we 572 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 2: was but it just so the bottom line on this 573 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 2: was like, it feels like a standard because we've had 574 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 2: this done to us a few times the few times 575 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: that we were in the studio, we've had this done 576 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 2: multiple times where we were like, eh, scooch over sorry, 577 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: and that's that expectations. And typically it has always been 578 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 2: men who overtake our studio. Am I wrong? Every time? 579 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 2: I remember those situations always been dudes. Yeah, because they yeah, 580 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 2: they feel like this is a this is a standard. 581 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: I can do this, we can do this, and it's 582 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 2: kind of a and even even when we had been like, hey, 583 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 2: this is an issue, they'd be like, oh, just comply 584 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 2: for now and we'll fix this later, which again teaches 585 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 2: us and them nothing's going to be done. And I 586 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 2: think this is where this is the first time again 587 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 2: why we saw my being like, nah, I'm over this, 588 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 2: and which again I was so thoroughly impressed that. I 589 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 2: was like, oh, because this is the first time we've 590 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 2: seen it from someone who was in charge of our 591 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 2: our time in studios place, so it was impressive for 592 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 2: that matter, But also this has been It wasn't a 593 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 2: big deal, but it is the bigger scope of things 594 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,399 Speaker 2: of like why is this a standard and y'all think 595 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 2: this is okay? And then y'all want us to be 596 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 2: in here and talking about being empowered and acting like 597 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 2: this is a safe work space when you obviously show 598 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 2: how little we mean as a part of this family company. 599 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: When I was thinking about this topic of running through 600 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,240 Speaker 1: my head, I also I wanted to do an episode 601 00:35:54,600 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: on the origins of the phrase go back to the kitchen, 602 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: because I've just seen it. It's it's so it's everywhere, 603 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: and it's been everywhere. It's like one of the first 604 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: things usually men will say to a woman who they 605 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: don't agree with. And I was just like thinking about that, 606 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: and I still I feel like that can kind of 607 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: translate here where it is still seen as like, well, 608 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: they can they don't have to be here, they can 609 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:26,479 Speaker 1: go back home, they. 610 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 2: Can go do that as as people are expendable. 611 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: Right, like that idea just permeated, and I was also 612 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: thinking about a lot of the invisible work people do 613 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: women do usually and we've done episodes on on it, 614 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: like the whole spectrum of it. But like as a 615 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: single woman, you can get asked to do a lot 616 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: of the parties, the planning, all of these events that 617 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: you don't get paid for, really don't get recognized for 618 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: because you don't have kids, so what are you doing? 619 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: But then on the other sid side, people with kids 620 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: being penalized because they have kids, right and they have 621 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: to go home. So it's just sort of all of 622 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: these expectations are punishments that are just there, even if 623 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: they're not writing, they. 624 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 2: Are there, right, And the extra amount of work that 625 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 2: is expected again, planning a party is a pretty significant 626 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 2: deal when you're having a giant group of people. To 627 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,439 Speaker 2: be fair, I think like people have realized this is, yeah, 628 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 2: an ordeal for the most part, especially when people don't 629 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 2: knew it. They're like, no, I'm not giving this anymore. 630 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. 631 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,919 Speaker 2: I think that that conversation is like the whole women 632 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 2: in layoffs and then really figuring it out to the 633 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: they're expendable, we can easily replace them. We could all 634 00:37:54,040 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 2: these conversations and putting again putting them at positions are 635 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 2: replaceable in their minds, whether or not they understand how 636 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 2: big of a conversation like no, they're not as explicable 637 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 2: as you think, right, but especially when they put the 638 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 2: load that they do on most of these types of 639 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 2: positions that they think it's so minial in their bigger 640 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 2: scheme of conversations when like I know, the saying goes 641 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 2: is essentially you rise up to do less work like 642 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 2: if you don't, if you actually want to not have 643 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 2: to do much, get a promotion type of thing and 644 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 2: people will do the work for you. And I think 645 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 2: that's what we see and which is why again white 646 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 2: women are at the forefront of being laid off and 647 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 2: or excuse like again the pregnancy, which blows my mind 648 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 2: in every respect. I'm like, I just I don't understand 649 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 2: why that's the qualifier. Just okay, whatever, There's so many 650 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 2: things in this conversation that needs to be again readdressed. 651 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 2: But yeah, as I am going on my tigh rate 652 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 2: of like, it doesn't change the culture of business. Who 653 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 2: says they're trying to appreciate the marginalized people are the 654 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 2: same people who are like, yeah, but you need to 655 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 2: be able to be shrunk, you need to be smaller 656 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 2: so we can exist as an peaceful office, like you 657 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 2: need to make peace, you need to be okay and 658 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 2: don't make any waves here. And it's such an interesting 659 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 2: thing in that same way, but like they're willing to 660 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 2: get rid of those people. Well, probably the peace keepers 661 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:30,439 Speaker 2: of the office. 662 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: Probably and are most likely doing a lot more work 663 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: than you're not realizing. Right. Also, this whole conversation has 664 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: also brought up conversations around things like just cause. So 665 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: that means that they have to Companies legally have to 666 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: give you a reason why you're fired. Not always you 667 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: have to fight for that in some cases, but in layoffs, 668 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a kind of ambiguous space. So, like I said, 669 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: some of this is that's why it's been so hard 670 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: to prove as you can, it's difficult. Also, severence policies 671 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: that that's come under come to light and discussion has 672 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: been had about that and how good are bad they are. 673 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 1: But I did want to ask you how so you've 674 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: got some unemployment? 675 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 2: I did, and the amount I don't think unemployment has 676 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 2: gone up either, since I've had unemployment, and that was 677 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 2: fourteen years ago. I think the amount State of Georgia 678 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 2: has made the same because that, y'all, it doesn't it's 679 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 2: not much. And what sucks is it's tax It's taxed awfully. Yeah, 680 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 2: So essentially a weekly benefits from the for the State 681 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,479 Speaker 2: of Georgia goes from fifty five dollars to three hundred 682 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 2: and sixty five dollars a week, but it is taxed, 683 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 2: so one third of it is gone. So essentially you 684 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,760 Speaker 2: may be able to get twelve hundred dollars a month. 685 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 2: Can you imagine living on that? And if you get 686 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 2: a part time job that goes away, right, you cannot 687 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 2: make money and you have to show every week that 688 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 2: you are trying to find the job. The amount of 689 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 2: things that you have to do to get unemployment, and 690 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 2: you can easily be removed the amount of taxes that 691 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 2: you have to pay because you can choose not to 692 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,399 Speaker 2: have a tax at the beginning and then at the end. Man, 693 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 2: that hurt me, Yeah, it hurt me a lot. And 694 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 2: I was trying to find the job. This is what 695 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 2: I just turned thirty. Everything from like the worst and 696 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 2: I was trying my damnness, and like trying to find 697 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 2: a job and try to get back into social all 698 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 2: these things. But the fact that it has not changed, yeah, 699 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 2: in that long of a period, that's the most absurd. Yeah. 700 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean the thing that's like if a company, 701 00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: companies don't have to offer severance policies, and even even 702 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 1: if they do, if they can find a way to say, 703 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: like they had just cost, they had a reason to 704 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: fire you, right, they don't have to give it to you. 705 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 2: And unemployment is also contingent on that. If they had 706 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 2: just cause and you got fired and it's your fault 707 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 2: if you quit any of those things, you don't get unemployment. Yeah, 708 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 2: and a job can fight against you, yes, to not 709 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 2: get unemployment because it comes from their taxes, brads. 710 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,879 Speaker 1: So it's so gross, it is. And then again going 711 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: back to so many of these things, but especially with 712 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: women who might have children or people who might have children, 713 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 1: like finding a job and it's not easy. Finding one 714 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 1: where you can maybe have flexible hours or work from 715 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: home also not easy. So it is a huge tax 716 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: on women and people of color. And then yeah, it's 717 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: just hard to find a job. And you know, you 718 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: might have really cared about your job, and so you 719 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: don't quite feel like just moving on, or maybe you're 720 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: a little depressed. Right, there's a lot going on where 721 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,359 Speaker 1: twelve hundred dollars a month is not gonna right. 722 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,840 Speaker 2: Get it. Also just that conversation of the fact that 723 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 2: you have to give a reason as to why you're 724 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 2: laid off. Hopefully that you're like, oh, it was just 725 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 2: a mass decision, Da da da. But we know a 726 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 2: lot of these companies have become vindictive and saying they're 727 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:39,839 Speaker 2: laying off based on performance. 728 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: That's true, and that in itself is like a marker. 729 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 2: On many of those people who are being laid off, 730 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 2: and then some who are vindictive and give bad recommendations, 731 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 2: which by the way, is illegal technically, well weirdly. 732 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a mess. Obviously, there's a lot of 733 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: other paths we could go down with this one, but. 734 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, I'm thinking about the fact that if 735 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 2: there's a gap in your resume, they get they see 736 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 2: that as a negative. So if you're just off because 737 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 2: you were out with your child, they see that as 738 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 2: a negative. There's so many bad things there. 739 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: I'm sorry there are. It's warranted, it's warranted, but yeah, uh, listeners, 740 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts on this, if you were 741 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,319 Speaker 1: I know some of you were impacted I think by 742 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 1: some of the twenty twenty three layoffs, please let us 743 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: know and hope we hope you're all doing okay whatever's 744 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: going on in your life. You can contact us in 745 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: many ways. You can email us at Stephanie and mom 746 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 1: stuff atiheartmedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter 747 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: at mom sup Podcasts, or in Distagram and TikTok at 748 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: stuff on Never Tolds You. We guys have a tea 749 00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: public story and we have a book you can get 750 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: wherever you get. Ear Reks thanks as always to our 751 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: super producer Christina, our executive pducer My and our contributor Joey. 752 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks see you for listening Stuff I 753 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: Never Told You. The production by Heart Radio form more 754 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 1: podcast in my Heart Radio. You can check out the 755 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,879 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast or where have you listen 756 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows