WEBVTT - Paul Lieberstein 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.960 My name is Paul Lieberstein, and I am a writer 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:14.920 and director and producer on the Office, and I played Toby. 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:22.640 I've forgotten. I constantly forget that I've played Toby. Hello 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.080 and welcome, Thank you all for being here. This is 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.680 the Office Deep Dive, and I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:41.000 Today we have the quadruple maybe quintuple threat, Paul Lieberstein. Now, 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.159 despite the fact that he almost forgot about it, Paul 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:51.440 is probably most famous for playing dunder Mifflin's h R. Rep. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:57.360 Toby Flenderson. Toby was a fantastic character, the character that 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:02.600 everybody love to hate. Well maybe they just hated. Toby 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.520 was the character that everyone just hated. But let me 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:10.000 be very clear, Toby was hated Paul. Nobody hated Paul. 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.959 He was one of our original writers. He was a director, 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.800 a producer, and he was our boss. He was the 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.200 show runner on the show from seasons five all the 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.960 way through season eight, which well, that means I had 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:29.240 a lot to talk to Paul about. And Paul blew 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.319 my mind with so many things I had never heard before, 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:38.280 multiple times during this conversation. So I am very excited 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.640 for you all to hear it, so without further ado, 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:51.720 the most soft spoken man in television, Paul Lieberstein, Bubble 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:59.480 and Squeak, I love it, Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and Squeaker, 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:16.000 Cookie every moon lift o from the nut people. Oh 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:25.440 there he is great. You've been doing a bunch. I've 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.040 been doing a bunch. Yes, there's no way too much 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.440 about the office, I way too much. And this is 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.840 all off the record, correct, all of it. We're not 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.160 going to record record and we're not We're literally not 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:47.280 recording any of it. Wow, Hi, Paul, are we rolling? Um? 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:49.760 I mean you know, we're just we're literally we're just 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.440 having a conversation. Oh you know what I'm saying. Again, 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:59.080 it's all off the record, nothing's recorded. Um, how are you? 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:06.120 How's it work? Line? So all right? Yeah it looks yeah. 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:11.240 Things are good. Yeah. Family, family is kid, family is good. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.000 Work is sort of so so, but family is good. Yeah. No, No, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.040 that's probably accurate. Family is great. I got a lot 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.680 of joy from family and not as much from not 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.680 as much from Okay when I hear you, alright, so 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.600 rewind back in your mind like fifteen years. Okay, we're 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.600 going back like two thousand four. What were you doing 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.240 in your work not with your family? I don't know 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:40.440 what I was doing. I mean, hell, then there was 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:44.560 the True Care Show, and then Bernie Mac Show, and 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.120 then Greg the Bunny. I think Greg the Bunny was 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.200 the last show that I had done. You were writing 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.960 on Greg's Bunny? And then were you unemployed at that point? 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.000 I think I was free? You were free? Yeah? Were 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.480 you aware? I never really think about it as unemployed, 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.760 just free because like our jobs come and go, right, 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.920 So if you think about it is unemployed, you can 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:12.000 hit some very big loads in their trust's just they 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.920 come and go. Yeah, so you were free. I was free. Yeah. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.719 Were you aware of the British version of it? Yeah, 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.760 you are very aware. I loved it. Yeah, I was 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:26.919 aware way before Greg was going to adapt it. I 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.080 mean it would really hit the sweet spot of what 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:34.880 I loved about writing UM and what I loved about 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.960 t P. What do you love about writing UM? I 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:43.360 do like trying to catch real comedy as it seems 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.000 to exist in the world for me, and I like, 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.720 you know, situations, and it's much less people cracking jokes, 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.960 and I think there's a lot of room for people 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.440 cracking jokes, comedy, you know, and I enjoy it sometimes, 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:02.600 but it's not what I'm interested in writing, right, Um, 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:07.800 that was really unprofessional. I didn't silence my thing, damn it. Um. 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.600 So you know, we hear noises, we hear noises that 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.640 deal and planes that fly over it's going to stop 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:19.400 their car? Like, what the hell was that? Um? What 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:23.240 was your relationship with Greg prior to you coming to 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.960 work on the Office? Um? Very strong released it was 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.760 he's my brother in law, right, So you've known each 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.200 other for a while for a very long time. Yeah, yeah, 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.600 and you had worked together on King of the Hill, 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:37.400 so you were a big fan of the Office. You 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.960 knew it before he came on to adapt it. Were 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.520 you excited about that? Thrilled? And I was thrilled when 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.279 he asked me to be part of it. And I 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:51.560 was quite nervous taking it on. But I couldn't imagine 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.039 not taking it onto because then what am I gonna do? 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.960 Just work on something that was good? Why were you nervous? Well? 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.280 Because I loved the British. It was done at a 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.279 very high level and you know, um, you know, most 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.240 adaptations don't work. But because of your relationship with Greg. 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.200 You didn't know that you would be working on the show, 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:13.919 but you showed up for some of the filming of 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.159 the pilot. Yeah, just to hang out and see how 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.200 it was going, and just this kind of a viewer. 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.640 Did you give notes? I think I suggested a few jokes, 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.559 but you know, notes seems to be a word used 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:33.440 when when someone has like an official role. Right, Oh shit, Okay, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.839 what are your notes? You're not interested in someone's notes. 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:43.200 If they have some ideas, I'd love to hear their ideas, right, Um, 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:44.640 So when did you find out that you would be 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.240 joining the writing staff. I guess after the pilot was 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.000 picked up. We started putting it together and called. They 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:51.680 also didn't have a lot of money because you know, 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.040 NBC wasn't releasing a lot of money, so he had 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.279 a real scout and staff. And I think I was 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.880 officially three days a week, although are did doing five 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.360 days just because it was fun and there was lots 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.920 to do. Yeah. I would not like coming in and 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.000 something happened without me. It's like, wait a second, No, 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.120 we just agreed on this, so that was better to 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.400 be part of the whole thing. What specific challenges did 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.040 you feel or did you feel like the writer's room 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:25.160 felt adapting the show that you know, critically and at 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.120 least with a core group of people with such a 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:34.080 huge colt amazing show. I mean, obviously we were really challenged. 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.600 Everyone there loves the British show. I think we just 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.360 we didn't want to just copy it, nor did we 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:45.120 want to abandon it. But I remember Greg saying early 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.920 on that he kind of like took apart that show 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:50.840 like a watch and put it back together, and he 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:55.120 knows exactly how it works, and so I think we 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:59.480 just grabbed the principles of how it worked without grabbing 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.680 anything else. I mean, there was definitely a mirror, like 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.560 a fuzzy mirror on the English show where you could 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.480 point to a lot of things and be like, okay, 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.840 you know American version. That's so, that's the American version 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.880 of that English nag. But it really wasn't. I mean, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.840 Jim and Tim were incredibly different, as we're done in 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:22.000 Pam and and you can't even begin to compare Ricky 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:26.080 and Steve. You know, do you remember feeling a pressure 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:30.480 to make it our own or americanize it? No, No, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.199 it's felt the pressure to like live up to the 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:41.479 quality of their show, right, um, and the potential embarrassment 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:46.880 that we faced. Yeah, when did you learn that you 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.600 were also going to be an actor on the show. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.600 So we we had a while before we started production. 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.520 We were writing and writing, and nothing about it came up. 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.920 It never crossed our mind. But I think we had 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.520 the need for someone to come in and do one line. 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:08.439 And Greg had this idea that he wanted to kind 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.840 of break down the wall between the writers and actors, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:17.559 which is like very like strong, sacred wall, this big tradition, 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.080 and he thought, let's give it a try. Let's break 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.040 this down and you know, have some writers see what 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.120 it's like to be on set and have more communication 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.840 between the writers and the actors. And so I got 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:34.439 the one line. But we were up all night writing 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:39.839 and and it was like four in the morning, but 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.560 we finally went home and then I kind of stumbled 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.199 onto the set the next day. I had one line. 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.600 I didn't really know it very well, and I didn't 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.800 know Steve was going to improvise at all. And I 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.199 was so tired when we did it that I think 0:09:55.240 --> 0:10:01.320 that would like infused the performance quite a bit. And Steve, 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.640 you know, He wasn't the giant yet you know he was. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.280 He was kind of another actor on set, so I mean, 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.640 I can't imagine what it had been like coming in 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.800 season four and having to act for them, right, I 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.320 would have been really scary. But we got to know 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.080 him as we went, so it wasn't so bad. And 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.200 you know, we had such a forgiving as you know, 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:28.120 filming style, you kind of couldn't make a mistake unless 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:33.000 you broke, which happened. Which happened, But I didn't break much. 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.000 You didn't. I would just kind of stop and wait 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.360 for someone else to talk, which always happened. Someone would 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:44.680 jump in. I feel like I remember a big break 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.720 from you when Rain got really close to your face 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:58.920 and asked you where the Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely broke. Yeah. Um. 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:03.040 There was a moment in uh season one. I was 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.600 barely acting, you know, I was just figuring it all out, 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.360 and we were doing a scene together and they kept 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:13.160 trying to make me be louder and and I was like, 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.160 I don't know why I would be louder because the 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.760 person I'm talking to is right here. Why would I 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.840 be louder? And you said to me, we're sitting next 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.920 to the refrigerator which is off. Imagine that it's got 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.240 a really loud hum and you have to talk a 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:32.760 little louder like, Oh, okay, that was the beginning of acting. 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:39.520 So I taught you everything you know? Yeah, well you 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.680 tell me one thing that I know? Yes, yes, Wow, 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.920 it could have given me a little more credit there. No, 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.280 I learned from everybody on set. Oh that's amazing. You 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.800 said it's not traditional and there's this huge wall typically 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.240 between the writing staff and the actors. How do you 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.079 think that that difference and our show changed the dynamic 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.280 it would have been. I don't think I actually would 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.720 have come out that way if there if there was 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:11.000 a strict wall. We were all on the same page 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:16.160 with the show writers and actors, and we became so 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:20.200 close with each character an actor and liked them and 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.200 liked writing for them. And that often doesn't happen when 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.480 they're so separate. The writers have one idea what the 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:28.400 show is that they want to create, and the actors 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.720 have a different, and so they're fighting each other on set, 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.960 just create without ever talking. They're fighting each other, right, 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.080 So I think, yeah, it was such a it was 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.240 such a good I need to do often that wall 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.760 is there because of the producers and the director. Now, 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.560 the director typically you know, you're not supposed to have 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.640 any just you're supposed to be the only person talking 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:58.360 to you about your performance, right, And I get that, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:04.600 But at the same time, if you have, you know, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.000 the show goes for a little while. Actors know their 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.240 roles better than the director, the writers know the characters 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.360 better than the director, the DP knows the show better 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.360 than the director, and the directors coming in knowing the 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.600 least about the show of anybody. And we're all supposed 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.840 to like not make the show better and just wait 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.120 for the director to catch her. It's just it doesn't 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:30.160 really work completely right. It's the it's the thing about TV. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.360 I mean, it's a great rule for a great rule 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.760 for a movie. And I mean, you know you can 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.240 see like as a director too. And we all became directors. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.040 You know that building someone's performance, you want to tell 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.560 them just a couple of things, you can slowly try 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.720 to push them in a direction, and you know, it 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.080 matters how you say things. And I think we all 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.680 generally respected that right boundary while we were building a scene. 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.599 But we all talked about the scenes beforehand and afterwards 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.360 what is going to come up the stories? And when 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.800 things weren't working, we just stopped and we just talked 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:09.160 to each other. Yeah, I've taken that with me into 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.040 the future. Like I always will show respect to a director, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.400 but I will walk over to video village and have 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.000 a conversation with the writer or the creators on set 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.120 just about the character or or what we're going for. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.440 I feel like I'm able to have a conversation with 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.000 them and get to the core of actually what it 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:30.480 is they're Yeah, yeah, which is that a director is 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:35.160 just more skilled at having that conversation. Yeah, Yeah, I've 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:41.280 really I'm really big it with intention. Now I'm working 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.200 on The Space Force with Greg now, so we were 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.680 doing scenes with Steve and I tell him to say 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.840 whatever he wants and just tell him the intention, right, 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:58.560 I mean, he's gonna say whatever he wants anyway. But right, Um, 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:03.240 did you feel like you have because of your relationship 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.800 with Greg did you feel like you had a greater 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.280 accountability to him when you started working Like, did you 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.960 feel big time? I think you know, there's always this 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.640 this I when two people are working together and related, 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:23.080 there there's there's this sense of nepotism, you know, and 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.080 I felt like I had more to prove, and I 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:30.040 wanted to, for both of our sakes, defend against that 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:36.680 by just doing more and being better, you know, right, Um, 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.320 I just want to talk a little bit about the 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.840 form of the show. We began over time to find 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.640 elements that we felt like worked that was going to create, 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.520 you know, the best half hour of television, meaning in 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.760 diversity day for example, like setting that episode in one day, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.800 having you know, having all episodes were one day. Those 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.240 are most yes as a rule. As a rule, yeah, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.200 and which I as, I think that's something we broke 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.560 a handful of times in two And why was that important? 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.560 When we were talking about the concept of the show. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.520 A documentary crew had come there that day for some reason, 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.280 and everything we shot was contained in like their intention 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.800 and the I know, at least the first few times 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.640 we broke that rule, it was because a story lingered 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:32.840 to the next day, so they followed it. But it 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.840 was our feeling that they weren't there every day catching everything, 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:39.960 whereas I think towards the end of the show we 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.920 we said, no, maybe they just are there every day. 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.480 I have never heard this before I swear to god, 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.840 I've never heard this before. Yeah, why why did they come? 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:56.760 Because they came because they knew, Um, this person was 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.160 coming to talk to Michael about you know problem they received, 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.000 you know, the Larry movement, diversity or but there there 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.800 was always that hook, right, Were they there even if 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.800 it was never stated or so like, oh today it's 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.120 the Christmas party? Yeah, exactly. You can imagine some days 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:18.199 where nothing happened and they just didn't come. That is 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.960 Oh my god, that's so awesome. Do we have that there? 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.160 I loved that so much that do we have that? 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.440 Why wouldn't we have it? Are you just recording it's 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:34.000 this sometimes? Are they just when you feel like something 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.840 interesting happening? I'm making sure that it's clear from you. 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:43.200 Um okay, So what did the cold opens give us then? Um? 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.280 What did that allow us to do? Aside from that 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.399 sort of core structure as we as we began to 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.680 do those, I guess that it allowed us to take 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.840 on something of a much smaller scope, a pure thing 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.399 like you're bringing in Chile. It was not going to 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:03.920 be an episode, right, It was a small thing, simple thing. 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.680 One of the office workers brings in some food, and 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:12.040 here's our little he fills it and there it is right, 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:18.360 I mean side note by the way, it is by 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.119 far the thing that people talk to me about the most. Oh, 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:27.200 there is no question. How do you feel about that? Um? 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:31.640 I thought it was a beautiful moment. I never thought 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.800 it would be this. It was a humongous departure from 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.600 almost anything that was ever done on the show. It 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.800 was kind of controversial at the time. They were some 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.440 people who didn't want to do it. Well, it's only 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:49.520 one character for an extended monologue, largely played in voiceover. Yes, 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.760 that ends in that. And they had shower. I showered 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.800 and showered and scrubbed and just like throwing out dirty 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.840 owls out of the shower to the wardrobe people. We 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.640 filmed it, obviously at the end of the day, and 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.080 Oscar and Angela and I had a dinner that night 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.119 at Mastros. We would do this occasionally, we would go 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:14.840 out and have a nice dinner and just talk and 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.119 be human beings instead of accountants. And I walked in 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.040 and all I could do was smell chili all over 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:25.120 my hands. Just it just it was just in my skin. Um, 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:47.240 all right, enough about me, So you think about the 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:53.199 office as this place of ordinary stasis. But to me, 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:59.160 what Greg and you did throughout the show was constantly 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:06.000 change something which I think created a kinetic energy that 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.920 kept spinning through. Was that something that you were thinking 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:14.840 about at the time, like trying to keep stirring that pot? Yeah? Absolutely, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.760 I mean I always thought putting Steve in with new 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:26.080 blood and a new energy was like worth six episodes 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:30.159 of just great comedy. Just every new person that you 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:35.480 put next to him, So like Idris Elba, Charles Minor So, yes, exactly, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.280 you know, who's clearly not a comedy guy, hasn't done 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.879 comedy before or since. But that energy next to Steve 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.120 was amazing, you know, and he just it's what happens 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:52.320 to him, you know, and he becomes a different parce 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:58.240 Cathy Bates next to Steve, Holly Amy Ryan Um. How 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.200 do you feel like, in addition into those things, kind 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.800 of leaning into more of the supporting cast flashing out 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.680 those stories. How did that help keep the dynamic? Oh? Yeah, 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.200 that was the key. I think. You know, this idea 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.600 that there's five characters on the show, was this age 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:20.280 old idea. You know, sitcoms have been following that pattern 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.960 for like as long as I've been watching them sixty years, 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.760 you know, Um, but there's no reason for it. And 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.560 I'd say in the beginning, you know, it was five 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:36.080 plus side characters, but that didn't last long. Everyone was 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:43.240 a character and pretty equal. Um. And then taking turns 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.320 and like saying okay, and again, a lot of it was, 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:48.800 you know, because Steve was the comedy Michael was the 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:53.240 comedy driver. So picking the two, picking two characters to 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.080 then create an episode around saying, Okay, this is gonna 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.359 be Michael Kevin or a Michael Stanley you know what 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.920 did I study? Or we could just move that around 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.600 and kind of take turns and we would get a 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:10.720 completely different, new, fresh dynamic going right. How do you 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.359 feel like the different relationships we move into, kind of 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.160 the love relationships. How do you feel like that made 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.720 the show different than just a comedy because Jim and 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:25.399 Pam was almost always played straight. Huh yeah, well it 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.960 was charged you now, So I guess it always felt 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:35.760 straight because that's what you were paying attention to. Um. Yeah, 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.840 something like a relationship. There's just more at stake, and 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:43.560 that's very relatable. So I think people are I think 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.120 they could be having a comic conversation and you don't 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:50.639 even hear it sometimes, right, interesting. I mean they had 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:55.919 a lot of you know, they had no shortage of 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.560 like pranks on Dwight, and that was a dynamic taken 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:01.920 from the British at these two are going to connect 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.640 with each other over pranking Twight and I think there 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:09.080 was a ton of comedy and us. But what you 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.160 saw you didn't register his comedy, because what you really 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:18.200 registerious love story. Right, There's another relationship that I think 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:22.120 was maybe my favorite in the show. Will you play 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:27.000 that clip? Why are you the way that you are? Honestly, 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:30.200 every time I try to do something fun or exciting, 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:37.720 you make it not that way. I hate so much 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:45.400 about the things that you choose to be. I mean 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:51.120 that when was the idea for that born? It wasn't 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:55.760 born in diversity. Steve wrote that speech. Yeah, he hated 0:23:57.440 --> 0:23:59.720 And when I was watching some of those things last night, 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:03.360 I mean, his face anytime he is looking at you 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:07.359 and angry at you in a way is completely trans 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.359 It almost looks like a different person, and he's his 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:12.840 energy and at one point he's like, I hate your 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:17.119 lemon head or it's just crazy, it's like I'm a 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:19.959 Nazi and he thinks he's doing a service to the 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:22.480 world by hating me. Well that, well, that's the other 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:25.159 famous one, right, Like if I had two bullets and 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:29.360 there was Hitler, Ben Laden and Toby, I would use 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:35.280 both bullets and kill Toby. I think it happened in 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:39.040 Meredith's birthday and we all had to sign that card. 0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:41.400 So I just had to go in and said, oh, 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:43.479 can I have a card and sign something really quickly 0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:46.199 and leave, and he would just watch me do it 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:49.040 the all time, take after takeing he was just standing 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:52.480 there watching and he told me afterwards said he felt 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:56.840 like the hate for me just just well up inside 0:24:56.920 --> 0:25:02.639 him during these takes. So it was so from that moment. 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.240 Is that why you guys decided to write that story 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:09.439 in or to continue that. You know, a lot of 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:13.159 it he would come from Steve. I think the power 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:15.920 of it came from Steve, you know, and he would 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:18.840 always do more. Heven, starting with Diversity Day, who was 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:21.240 just supposed to say he would, you know, get out 0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:25.080 or something like that, but he did more. He relished 0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:27.320 the moment and played with it, and I think he 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:29.760 continues to do that, and really, you know, when we 0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.160 had these thirty six minute cuts and had to decide 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:37.000 what would stay. When Steve loved something, he the performance 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:40.760 would be amazing. And I think that's what helped so 0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:44.679 much of the Toby Michael stuff stay right, just his 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:47.680 pure power and just the pure power of his like, yeah, 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:57.000 being being there, corral genius. Right. Um, what was what's 0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:00.000 the episode that you were most proud of writing? That's 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:04.320 a good question. Money was the first hour one that 0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:07.320 I did and I directed it as well, and Greg 0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:10.720 gave me total freedom. I ran the rewrite and everything. 0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:13.560 I think that was the one where I like totally 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:18.040 had control every line of it, and I love doing that. 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:19.919 I'm really I don't know, I'm really proud of. I 0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:24.840 got nominated for Directors guild Ward for or an Emmy 0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:28.760 for directing that one. That one was a really big 0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:31.399 deal of me because just where in my career it 0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:35.800 fell right. What was different about your episodes? Was there 0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:41.719