1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: My name is Paul Lieberstein, and I am a writer 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: and director and producer on the Office, and I played Toby. 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: I've forgotten. I constantly forget that I've played Toby. Hello 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: and welcome, Thank you all for being here. This is 5 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: the Office Deep Dive, and I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. 6 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: Today we have the quadruple maybe quintuple threat, Paul Lieberstein. Now, 7 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: despite the fact that he almost forgot about it, Paul 8 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: is probably most famous for playing dunder Mifflin's h R. Rep. 9 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: Toby Flenderson. Toby was a fantastic character, the character that 10 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: everybody love to hate. Well maybe they just hated. Toby 11 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: was the character that everyone just hated. But let me 12 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: be very clear, Toby was hated Paul. Nobody hated Paul. 13 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: He was one of our original writers. He was a director, 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: a producer, and he was our boss. He was the 15 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: show runner on the show from seasons five all the 16 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: way through season eight, which well, that means I had 17 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: a lot to talk to Paul about. And Paul blew 18 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: my mind with so many things I had never heard before, 19 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: multiple times during this conversation. So I am very excited 20 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: for you all to hear it, so without further ado, 21 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: the most soft spoken man in television, Paul Lieberstein, Bubble 22 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: and Squeak, I love it, Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and Squeaker, 23 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: Cookie every moon lift o from the nut people. Oh 24 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: there he is great. You've been doing a bunch. I've 25 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: been doing a bunch. Yes, there's no way too much 26 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: about the office, I way too much. And this is 27 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: all off the record, correct, all of it. We're not 28 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: going to record record and we're not We're literally not 29 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: recording any of it. Wow, Hi, Paul, are we rolling? Um? 30 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: I mean you know, we're just we're literally we're just 31 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: having a conversation. Oh you know what I'm saying. Again, 32 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: it's all off the record, nothing's recorded. Um, how are you? 33 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: How's it work? Line? So all right? Yeah it looks yeah. 34 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: Things are good. Yeah. Family, family is kid, family is good. 35 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: Work is sort of so so, but family is good. Yeah. No, No, 36 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: that's probably accurate. Family is great. I got a lot 37 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: of joy from family and not as much from not 38 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: as much from Okay when I hear you, alright, so 39 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: rewind back in your mind like fifteen years. Okay, we're 40 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: going back like two thousand four. What were you doing 41 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: in your work not with your family? I don't know 42 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: what I was doing. I mean, hell, then there was 43 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: the True Care Show, and then Bernie Mac Show, and 44 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: then Greg the Bunny. I think Greg the Bunny was 45 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: the last show that I had done. You were writing 46 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: on Greg's Bunny? And then were you unemployed at that point? 47 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: I think I was free? You were free? Yeah? Were 48 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: you aware? I never really think about it as unemployed, 49 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: just free because like our jobs come and go, right, 50 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: So if you think about it is unemployed, you can 51 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: hit some very big loads in their trust's just they 52 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: come and go. Yeah, so you were free. I was free. Yeah. 53 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: Were you aware of the British version of it? Yeah, 54 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: you are very aware. I loved it. Yeah, I was 55 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: aware way before Greg was going to adapt it. I 56 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: mean it would really hit the sweet spot of what 57 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: I loved about writing UM and what I loved about 58 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: t P. What do you love about writing UM? I 59 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: do like trying to catch real comedy as it seems 60 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: to exist in the world for me, and I like, 61 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: you know, situations, and it's much less people cracking jokes, 62 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot of room for people 63 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: cracking jokes, comedy, you know, and I enjoy it sometimes, 64 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: but it's not what I'm interested in writing, right, Um, 65 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: that was really unprofessional. I didn't silence my thing, damn it. Um. 66 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: So you know, we hear noises, we hear noises that 67 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: deal and planes that fly over it's going to stop 68 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: their car? Like, what the hell was that? Um? What 69 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: was your relationship with Greg prior to you coming to 70 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: work on the Office? Um? Very strong released it was 71 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: he's my brother in law, right, So you've known each 72 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: other for a while for a very long time. Yeah, yeah, 73 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: and you had worked together on King of the Hill, 74 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: so you were a big fan of the Office. You 75 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: knew it before he came on to adapt it. Were 76 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: you excited about that? Thrilled? And I was thrilled when 77 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: he asked me to be part of it. And I 78 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: was quite nervous taking it on. But I couldn't imagine 79 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: not taking it onto because then what am I gonna do? 80 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: Just work on something that was good? Why were you nervous? Well? 81 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: Because I loved the British. It was done at a 82 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: very high level and you know, um, you know, most 83 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: adaptations don't work. But because of your relationship with Greg. 84 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: You didn't know that you would be working on the show, 85 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: but you showed up for some of the filming of 86 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: the pilot. Yeah, just to hang out and see how 87 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: it was going, and just this kind of a viewer. 88 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: Did you give notes? I think I suggested a few jokes, 89 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,559 Speaker 1: but you know, notes seems to be a word used 90 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: when when someone has like an official role. Right, Oh shit, Okay, 91 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: what are your notes? You're not interested in someone's notes. 92 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: If they have some ideas, I'd love to hear their ideas, right, Um, 93 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: So when did you find out that you would be 94 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: joining the writing staff. I guess after the pilot was 95 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: picked up. We started putting it together and called. They 96 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: also didn't have a lot of money because you know, 97 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: NBC wasn't releasing a lot of money, so he had 98 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: a real scout and staff. And I think I was 99 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: officially three days a week, although are did doing five 100 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: days just because it was fun and there was lots 101 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: to do. Yeah. I would not like coming in and 102 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: something happened without me. It's like, wait a second, No, 103 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: we just agreed on this, so that was better to 104 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: be part of the whole thing. What specific challenges did 105 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: you feel or did you feel like the writer's room 106 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: felt adapting the show that you know, critically and at 107 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: least with a core group of people with such a 108 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: huge colt amazing show. I mean, obviously we were really challenged. 109 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: Everyone there loves the British show. I think we just 110 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: we didn't want to just copy it, nor did we 111 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: want to abandon it. But I remember Greg saying early 112 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: on that he kind of like took apart that show 113 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: like a watch and put it back together, and he 114 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: knows exactly how it works, and so I think we 115 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: just grabbed the principles of how it worked without grabbing 116 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: anything else. I mean, there was definitely a mirror, like 117 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: a fuzzy mirror on the English show where you could 118 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: point to a lot of things and be like, okay, 119 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: you know American version. That's so, that's the American version 120 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: of that English nag. But it really wasn't. I mean, 121 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: Jim and Tim were incredibly different, as we're done in 122 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: Pam and and you can't even begin to compare Ricky 123 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: and Steve. You know, do you remember feeling a pressure 124 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: to make it our own or americanize it? No, No, 125 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: it's felt the pressure to like live up to the 126 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:41,479 Speaker 1: quality of their show, right, um, and the potential embarrassment 127 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: that we faced. Yeah, when did you learn that you 128 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: were also going to be an actor on the show. 129 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: So we we had a while before we started production. 130 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: We were writing and writing, and nothing about it came up. 131 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: It never crossed our mind. But I think we had 132 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: the need for someone to come in and do one line. 133 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: And Greg had this idea that he wanted to kind 134 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: of break down the wall between the writers and actors, 135 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: which is like very like strong, sacred wall, this big tradition, 136 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: and he thought, let's give it a try. Let's break 137 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: this down and you know, have some writers see what 138 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: it's like to be on set and have more communication 139 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: between the writers and the actors. And so I got 140 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: the one line. But we were up all night writing 141 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: and and it was like four in the morning, but 142 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: we finally went home and then I kind of stumbled 143 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: onto the set the next day. I had one line. 144 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: I didn't really know it very well, and I didn't 145 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: know Steve was going to improvise at all. And I 146 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: was so tired when we did it that I think 147 00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: that would like infused the performance quite a bit. And Steve, 148 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, He wasn't the giant yet you know he was. 149 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: He was kind of another actor on set, so I mean, 150 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it had been like coming in 151 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: season four and having to act for them, right, I 152 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: would have been really scary. But we got to know 153 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: him as we went, so it wasn't so bad. And 154 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, we had such a forgiving as you know, 155 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: filming style, you kind of couldn't make a mistake unless 156 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: you broke, which happened. Which happened, But I didn't break much. 157 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: You didn't. I would just kind of stop and wait 158 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: for someone else to talk, which always happened. Someone would 159 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: jump in. I feel like I remember a big break 160 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: from you when Rain got really close to your face 161 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: and asked you where the Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely broke. Yeah. Um. 162 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: There was a moment in uh season one. I was 163 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: barely acting, you know, I was just figuring it all out, 164 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: and we were doing a scene together and they kept 165 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: trying to make me be louder and and I was like, 166 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: I don't know why I would be louder because the 167 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: person I'm talking to is right here. Why would I 168 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: be louder? And you said to me, we're sitting next 169 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: to the refrigerator which is off. Imagine that it's got 170 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: a really loud hum and you have to talk a 171 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: little louder like, Oh, okay, that was the beginning of acting. 172 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: So I taught you everything you know? Yeah, well you 173 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: tell me one thing that I know? Yes, yes, Wow, 174 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: it could have given me a little more credit there. No, 175 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: I learned from everybody on set. Oh that's amazing. You 176 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: said it's not traditional and there's this huge wall typically 177 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: between the writing staff and the actors. How do you 178 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: think that that difference and our show changed the dynamic 179 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: it would have been. I don't think I actually would 180 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: have come out that way if there if there was 181 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: a strict wall. We were all on the same page 182 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: with the show writers and actors, and we became so 183 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: close with each character an actor and liked them and 184 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: liked writing for them. And that often doesn't happen when 185 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: they're so separate. The writers have one idea what the 186 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: show is that they want to create, and the actors 187 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: have a different, and so they're fighting each other on set, 188 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: just create without ever talking. They're fighting each other, right, 189 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, it was such a it was 190 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: such a good I need to do often that wall 191 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: is there because of the producers and the director. Now, 192 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: the director typically you know, you're not supposed to have 193 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: any just you're supposed to be the only person talking 194 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: to you about your performance, right, And I get that, 195 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: But at the same time, if you have, you know, 196 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: the show goes for a little while. Actors know their 197 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: roles better than the director, the writers know the characters 198 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: better than the director, the DP knows the show better 199 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: than the director, and the directors coming in knowing the 200 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: least about the show of anybody. And we're all supposed 201 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: to like not make the show better and just wait 202 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: for the director to catch her. It's just it doesn't 203 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: really work completely right. It's the it's the thing about TV. 204 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a great rule for a great rule 205 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: for a movie. And I mean, you know you can 206 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: see like as a director too. And we all became directors. 207 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: You know that building someone's performance, you want to tell 208 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: them just a couple of things, you can slowly try 209 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: to push them in a direction, and you know, it 210 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: matters how you say things. And I think we all 211 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: generally respected that right boundary while we were building a scene. 212 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: But we all talked about the scenes beforehand and afterwards 213 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: what is going to come up the stories? And when 214 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: things weren't working, we just stopped and we just talked 215 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: to each other. Yeah, I've taken that with me into 216 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: the future. Like I always will show respect to a director, 217 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: but I will walk over to video village and have 218 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: a conversation with the writer or the creators on set 219 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: just about the character or or what we're going for. 220 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm able to have a conversation with 221 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: them and get to the core of actually what it 222 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: is they're Yeah, yeah, which is that a director is 223 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: just more skilled at having that conversation. Yeah, Yeah, I've 224 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: really I'm really big it with intention. Now I'm working 225 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: on The Space Force with Greg now, so we were 226 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: doing scenes with Steve and I tell him to say 227 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: whatever he wants and just tell him the intention, right, 228 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: I mean, he's gonna say whatever he wants anyway. But right, Um, 229 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: did you feel like you have because of your relationship 230 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: with Greg did you feel like you had a greater 231 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: accountability to him when you started working Like, did you 232 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: feel big time? I think you know, there's always this 233 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: this I when two people are working together and related, 234 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: there there's there's this sense of nepotism, you know, and 235 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: I felt like I had more to prove, and I 236 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: wanted to, for both of our sakes, defend against that 237 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: by just doing more and being better, you know, right, Um, 238 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: I just want to talk a little bit about the 239 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: form of the show. We began over time to find 240 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: elements that we felt like worked that was going to create, 241 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, the best half hour of television, meaning in 242 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: diversity day for example, like setting that episode in one day, 243 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: having you know, having all episodes were one day. Those 244 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: are most yes as a rule. As a rule, yeah, 245 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: and which I as, I think that's something we broke 246 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: a handful of times in two And why was that important? 247 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: When we were talking about the concept of the show. 248 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: A documentary crew had come there that day for some reason, 249 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: and everything we shot was contained in like their intention 250 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: and the I know, at least the first few times 251 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: we broke that rule, it was because a story lingered 252 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: to the next day, so they followed it. But it 253 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: was our feeling that they weren't there every day catching everything, 254 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: whereas I think towards the end of the show we 255 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: we said, no, maybe they just are there every day. 256 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: I have never heard this before I swear to god, 257 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: I've never heard this before. Yeah, why why did they come? 258 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: Because they came because they knew, Um, this person was 259 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: coming to talk to Michael about you know problem they received, 260 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, the Larry movement, diversity or but there there 261 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: was always that hook, right, Were they there even if 262 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: it was never stated or so like, oh today it's 263 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: the Christmas party? Yeah, exactly. You can imagine some days 264 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: where nothing happened and they just didn't come. That is 265 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so awesome. Do we have that there? 266 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: I loved that so much that do we have that? 267 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't we have it? Are you just recording it's 268 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: this sometimes? Are they just when you feel like something 269 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: interesting happening? I'm making sure that it's clear from you. 270 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: Um okay, So what did the cold opens give us then? Um? 271 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: What did that allow us to do? Aside from that 272 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: sort of core structure as we as we began to 273 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: do those, I guess that it allowed us to take 274 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: on something of a much smaller scope, a pure thing 275 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: like you're bringing in Chile. It was not going to 276 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: be an episode, right, It was a small thing, simple thing. 277 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: One of the office workers brings in some food, and 278 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: here's our little he fills it and there it is right, 279 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: I mean side note by the way, it is by 280 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: far the thing that people talk to me about the most. Oh, 281 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: there is no question. How do you feel about that? Um? 282 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: I thought it was a beautiful moment. I never thought 283 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: it would be this. It was a humongous departure from 284 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: almost anything that was ever done on the show. It 285 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: was kind of controversial at the time. They were some 286 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: people who didn't want to do it. Well, it's only 287 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: one character for an extended monologue, largely played in voiceover. Yes, 288 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: that ends in that. And they had shower. I showered 289 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: and showered and scrubbed and just like throwing out dirty 290 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: owls out of the shower to the wardrobe people. We 291 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: filmed it, obviously at the end of the day, and 292 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: Oscar and Angela and I had a dinner that night 293 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: at Mastros. We would do this occasionally, we would go 294 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: out and have a nice dinner and just talk and 295 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: be human beings instead of accountants. And I walked in 296 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: and all I could do was smell chili all over 297 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: my hands. Just it just it was just in my skin. Um, 298 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: all right, enough about me, So you think about the 299 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: office as this place of ordinary stasis. But to me, 300 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: what Greg and you did throughout the show was constantly 301 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: change something which I think created a kinetic energy that 302 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: kept spinning through. Was that something that you were thinking 303 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: about at the time, like trying to keep stirring that pot? Yeah? Absolutely, 304 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: I mean I always thought putting Steve in with new 305 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: blood and a new energy was like worth six episodes 306 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 1: of just great comedy. Just every new person that you 307 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: put next to him, So like Idris Elba, Charles Minor So, yes, exactly, 308 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: you know, who's clearly not a comedy guy, hasn't done 309 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: comedy before or since. But that energy next to Steve 310 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: was amazing, you know, and he just it's what happens 311 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: to him, you know, and he becomes a different parce 312 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: Cathy Bates next to Steve, Holly Amy Ryan Um. How 313 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: do you feel like, in addition into those things, kind 314 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: of leaning into more of the supporting cast flashing out 315 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: those stories. How did that help keep the dynamic? Oh? Yeah, 316 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: that was the key. I think. You know, this idea 317 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: that there's five characters on the show, was this age 318 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: old idea. You know, sitcoms have been following that pattern 319 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: for like as long as I've been watching them sixty years, 320 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, Um, but there's no reason for it. And 321 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: I'd say in the beginning, you know, it was five 322 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: plus side characters, but that didn't last long. Everyone was 323 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: a character and pretty equal. Um. And then taking turns 324 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: and like saying okay, and again, a lot of it was, 325 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: you know, because Steve was the comedy Michael was the 326 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: comedy driver. So picking the two, picking two characters to 327 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: then create an episode around saying, Okay, this is gonna 328 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: be Michael Kevin or a Michael Stanley you know what 329 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: did I study? Or we could just move that around 330 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: and kind of take turns and we would get a 331 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: completely different, new, fresh dynamic going right. How do you 332 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: feel like the different relationships we move into, kind of 333 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: the love relationships. How do you feel like that made 334 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: the show different than just a comedy because Jim and 335 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: Pam was almost always played straight. Huh yeah, well it 336 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: was charged you now, So I guess it always felt 337 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: straight because that's what you were paying attention to. Um. Yeah, 338 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: something like a relationship. There's just more at stake, and 339 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: that's very relatable. So I think people are I think 340 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: they could be having a comic conversation and you don't 341 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: even hear it sometimes, right, interesting. I mean they had 342 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, they had no shortage of 343 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: like pranks on Dwight, and that was a dynamic taken 344 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: from the British at these two are going to connect 345 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: with each other over pranking Twight and I think there 346 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: was a ton of comedy and us. But what you 347 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: saw you didn't register his comedy, because what you really 348 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: registerious love story. Right, There's another relationship that I think 349 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: was maybe my favorite in the show. Will you play 350 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: that clip? Why are you the way that you are? Honestly, 351 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: every time I try to do something fun or exciting, 352 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: you make it not that way. I hate so much 353 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: about the things that you choose to be. I mean 354 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: that when was the idea for that born? It wasn't 355 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: born in diversity. Steve wrote that speech. Yeah, he hated 356 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: And when I was watching some of those things last night, 357 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: I mean, his face anytime he is looking at you 358 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: and angry at you in a way is completely trans 359 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: It almost looks like a different person, and he's his 360 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: energy and at one point he's like, I hate your 361 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: lemon head or it's just crazy, it's like I'm a 362 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,959 Speaker 1: Nazi and he thinks he's doing a service to the 363 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: world by hating me. Well that, well, that's the other 364 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: famous one, right, Like if I had two bullets and 365 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: there was Hitler, Ben Laden and Toby, I would use 366 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: both bullets and kill Toby. I think it happened in 367 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: Meredith's birthday and we all had to sign that card. 368 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: So I just had to go in and said, oh, 369 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: can I have a card and sign something really quickly 370 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: and leave, and he would just watch me do it 371 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: the all time, take after takeing he was just standing 372 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: there watching and he told me afterwards said he felt 373 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: like the hate for me just just well up inside 374 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: him during these takes. So it was so from that moment. 375 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: Is that why you guys decided to write that story 376 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: in or to continue that. You know, a lot of 377 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: it he would come from Steve. I think the power 378 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: of it came from Steve, you know, and he would 379 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: always do more. Heven, starting with Diversity Day, who was 380 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: just supposed to say he would, you know, get out 381 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: or something like that, but he did more. He relished 382 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: the moment and played with it, and I think he 383 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: continues to do that, and really, you know, when we 384 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: had these thirty six minute cuts and had to decide 385 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: what would stay. When Steve loved something, he the performance 386 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: would be amazing. And I think that's what helped so 387 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: much of the Toby Michael stuff stay right, just his 388 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: pure power and just the pure power of his like, yeah, 389 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: being being there, corral genius. Right. Um, what was what's 390 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: the episode that you were most proud of writing? That's 391 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: a good question. Money was the first hour one that 392 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: I did and I directed it as well, and Greg 393 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: gave me total freedom. I ran the rewrite and everything. 394 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: I think that was the one where I like totally 395 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: had control every line of it, and I love doing that. 396 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: I'm really I don't know, I'm really proud of. I 397 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: got nominated for Directors guild Ward for or an Emmy 398 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: for directing that one. That one was a really big 399 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: deal of me because just where in my career it 400 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: fell right. What was different about your episodes? Was there 401 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: a particular strength or interest that you had? Um? I 402 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: liked setting up very simple situations where people were in 403 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: basic conflict and really just letting things play with very 404 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: like natural dialogue that I don't know, I think I 405 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: think that's probably a part of a lot of my episodes. 406 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: If I go back right in the writer's room, would you, um, 407 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: would you each have assignments based on what your strengths 408 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: are or that was irrelevant? Yeah, I mean I don't 409 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: know that. We would work on a story for a 410 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: while before it had a writer, and I guess in 411 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: the signing of a writer there was thought, too, who's 412 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: going to do this? Well, okay, well, because you ran 413 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: the show for a while. We're talking about more about 414 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: that a minute, So you were assigning the writers to 415 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: the particular right, So would you say, oh, this is 416 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: a b J episode and so b J you'd write 417 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: this or I'd never say it. No, we're not out loud, 418 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: But is that what you would think? Yeah, definitely. V 419 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: J was, Um, it's like one of the strongest joke 420 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 1: writers I've ever worked with. I mean, he does a 421 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of strength. Everyone had a lot 422 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: of overall strengths, but his his sense of the joke 423 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: was extremely sharp, and certain episodes, you know, kind of 424 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: require that. Right. What about Mindy? You know Mindy, I 425 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have given her like an episode that had 426 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: like it was based on lots of twists and turns 427 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: and big plot things because she that was not her 428 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: interest and people would excel when they're following their interests, 429 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: you know. I mean she obviously she loved the romantic comedy, 430 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: but it wasn't just that she loved She wrote the Dundee's, right, 431 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: she wrote the Dundee's she wrote. I mean, she I 432 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: don't know where to begin. She was a ton of them. Yeah, 433 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: you know, when I think about Mindy wrote the Christmas 434 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: episode where you're sitting on Michael's lab, and I think 435 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: that goes to the kind of the heart of some 436 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: of the things that she did so amazingly, which was like, 437 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: just find something that's funny and really play it out. 438 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: And Greg loved that too, and that's one of the 439 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: reasons today were such a great team. Um. So, the 440 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: writer strike happens season four. Um do you remember anyways 441 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: specifically that the office was tied to that strike, and 442 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, we were really having a moment in season four. 443 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: We were very well respected. There was a lot to lose, 444 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: and as it happened, the fact that Greg went out 445 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: with the writers and struck set a tone for all 446 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: the showrunners, you know, And it was because of them 447 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: and we could read it online and see what they 448 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: were saying. The fact that he kind of lad the 449 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: charge for shore runners to stick by the writers and 450 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: shut down the shows because technically he could have worked. Um, 451 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: I don't know that it's I mean, it was such 452 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: a weird, murky area, right. Um. You could make an 453 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: argument that he would have been on solid ground to 454 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,719 Speaker 1: continue to produce the shows. And you could also make 455 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: an argument that you know, he had he had responsibility 456 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: too as a writer to to stop writing, because both 457 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: were possible. He had a choice to make, you know, 458 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: and a lot of show runners were very concerned about 459 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: their shows and they do the best. They had to 460 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: stockpile scripts, and I think, you know, the fact that 461 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: Greg was striking was a big part of Steve not 462 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: crossing the picket line, and that was what brought the 463 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: the office to stop. My bigest lesson from the strike was, 464 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, I had taken notes from a lot of 465 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: directors as I was studying to be one. So we 466 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: were in the middle of dinner party we were about 467 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: to shoot it, and one director scattered it. It was 468 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: as as if like things were being presented to him 469 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: and he was figuring out how he was going to 470 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: shoot it, and and then we came back that event 471 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: that director was not available and Paul Fi. We got 472 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: Paul Fi to direct Dinner Party, and he came in 473 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: and did the exact same scatter out, but bent that place. 474 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: He came in with a vision and bent the place 475 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: to suit it. He was like, paint these walls and too, 476 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: you know. And it was then that I learned what 477 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: a scout was, how how I needed to approach a 478 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: scout as a director. I should fully imagine this space 479 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: working for me in every possible way I can and 480 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: say it. And I need to imagine it now in 481 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: the scout because three hours from now it's too late. 482 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: I didn't tell the people what to do. Amazing. Um, 483 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: how did you feel about when Greg decided to leave 484 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: and go develop parks and recreation? I know he was 485 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: never gone gone, but how did you feel? And when 486 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: did you find out that you and Jen we're going 487 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: to take the show over. Yeah? He and I just 488 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: kind of went on a walk on Satici and he 489 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: told me h and asked me if I wanted to 490 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: do jan I don't thought it was a big honor. 491 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: Did you say yes right away? Yeah, definitely right. I 492 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: thought it was pretty pretty amazing. Were you didn't scare you? 493 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: Definitely sure? No, of course. Um, so what how did 494 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: the writer's room change just pragmatically with with Greg and 495 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: Mike both leaving? Um, Jen and I worked together so well, 496 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: and we could we could kind of work together or 497 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: take turns, kind of covering for each other, and it 498 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: thinks got really late and we both liked each other's 499 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: writing so much that it just made it easy. Right. 500 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: I remember that it didn't feel to me as though 501 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: much had changed, because it wasn't like he was gone 502 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: gone right. It wasn't like goodbye Greg. Yeah, And I 503 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: think he really wanted to be the face of that too, 504 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: so he was. He would be on the cause of 505 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: the network. He would be at all the table reads 506 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: and the places where he would typically interact. He kept interacting. 507 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: He was definitely worried how people would view it. But 508 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, at the same time, like Jen and I, 509 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: I loved Gregg's writing and it wasn't like you know, 510 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: and I've been on a lot of shows that you know, 511 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: when someone goes there, there could be the sad Finally 512 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: we get to do it all the way now, we're 513 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: really going to pick up this show. You know people 514 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: are gonna see the difference here. Um No, that wasn't 515 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: it at all. We loved Greg's writing, We had loved 516 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: what he did, and we just wanted to keep doing that, 517 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: even though he gave me authority. I wanted him to 518 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: like the show. You know, this was his show, and 519 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: after a table, if he didn't like it, I would 520 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: change it. I don't think I ever just said, well, 521 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: I like it, so we're doing it right. We would 522 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: always find the overlap of where we both like the show. 523 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you have a different sensibility? Are 524 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: generally similar? We have a big overlap, but then we 525 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 1: also have Harry's what we don't overlap? What? What would 526 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: you say the biggest thing in the non overlap is 527 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's not super clear to me, but 528 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: I know I used to definitely feel much more comfortable 529 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: going a lot darker than he would. That's exactly what 530 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: I was going to say, Yeah, I could go dark. 531 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: So when did you find out that Steve was not 532 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: going to come back. Did you feel confident that the 533 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: show could continue or were you not sure? I'm not sure. 534 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 1: I thought there was a lot of good reasons why 535 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: we could keep going ing, and you know, we had 536 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: done so much. I mean, he was seven seasons. I 537 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: just thought there wasn't a lot left so the show 538 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: could either find a new direction or it wouldn't work. 539 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: And we talked so much about what kind of new 540 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: directions it could be. But then ultimately I wanted to 541 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: keep going because we had a great cast. And that's 542 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: the decision not to bring in somebody else huge from 543 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: the outside and try to do a big gorilla, which 544 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: we had talked about two but we brought in James Spader, 545 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: we did, but he was part time and it revolved 546 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: and then we and then we did Katherine Tade for 547 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: a while in that job. I think we were we 548 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: were finding it. It was not easy in season eight 549 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: to figure out what the glue of the show was, right, 550 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: it had a strong core. Before it was there was 551 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: a guy who wanted more from this group than the 552 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: group could get, and almost everything came out of it right. 553 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: I had a discussion I think it was with Jenna. 554 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: I think it was her. If it wasn't her, we 555 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: can change this. But I had a discussion with somebody 556 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: who talked about one of their biggest disappointments or regrets 557 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: in the show was that it wasn't there wasn't enough 558 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: confidence given to the people that we had, feeling like 559 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: that we had to bring somebody else in. I think 560 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: what I said, which I can sympathize with the decision, 561 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: was that at that point, nobody who was there felt 562 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: like a boss. Yeah. And the other thing was we 563 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: were getting a lot of pressure from the network. So 564 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: the network, who had historically been behind us so much, 565 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: just changed hands, just changed hands to Comcast just as 566 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: Steve was leaving, and they wanted a big gorilla. They 567 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: wanted a big star to come in and take it over, 568 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: which we fought. How to say, like, they didn't even 569 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: know all the characters names at that point, they weren't 570 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: really following the show. I think we were just a 571 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: disappointing line item at the time. And then all of 572 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: TV was losing its ratings, all of TV, right, and 573 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: we didn't know how much of a hit we would 574 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: take with Steve going um, but we took a pretty 575 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: big one, and they wanted those numbers up. But at 576 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: the time, I mean, what we know now is that 577 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: was happening everywhere and people were starting everywhere happened with 578 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: if he had stayed right, Um, there was no way 579 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 1: to know, but that was behind a lot of the 580 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: pressure we were getting. I was kidding. Was there a 581 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: specific name that Comcast was wanting to take over? Um, 582 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: lots of names were floated, Julia, Louis Dreyfuss, James Candelfini, 583 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: someone we actually met with to explore it. But again, 584 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: that was going to be in the part time range 585 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: because I really did not want to put a new 586 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: person in the office in Michael's chair. I just thought like, 587 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: we're never going to get that right, and we should 588 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 1: just diffuse that thing and focus on everyone we had 589 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: interested what I was doing. And you know, even when 590 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: people came in, they weren't the focus. No, absolutely, I'm surprised. 591 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: I'm surprised. Yeah, Jenna's kinda I can't remember who it was, 592 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: but I'll tell you so you can get mad later. 593 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: I'm not mad, just really, really really hurt, you know. Um. 594 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: Any personal recollections from when Steve left, Oh yeah, it 595 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: was so well, we were all so tight, you know. 596 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: I remember like giving it like a little toast to 597 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: him and getting choked up after his last scene. Yeah, 598 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,280 Speaker 1: I was gonna miss him a lot and did. Yeah, 599 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: we all did as a person, as a person, yeah, 600 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: and as the genius that he was. Yeah, but I 601 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: think it was you know, our experience of doing the 602 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: show was the people and the talent was you know, 603 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot to do with the product. He was 604 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: a great guy who set a tone on you know, 605 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:30,840 Speaker 1: I don't know that the first person to say this, 606 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: but he set this tone that it was really important 607 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: to treat people well and everyone was important. But he 608 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 1: was also just really fun to have her own. Yeah. 609 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: I think we all just were said to see him go. Yeah. Um. 610 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: So how much were you aware of what Greg's vision 611 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: for the entire series would be? Like it was I 612 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: remember hearing early on, so I know you did that 613 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: there was beginning, you know, the documentary crew comes, there 614 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: was a middle, and that Greg had a specific idea 615 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,879 Speaker 1: for what the end would be. How early on were 616 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: you aware of that very you know, those ideas were 617 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: out really well, you know season once and two. You 618 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 1: these ideas, especially season one, and then and be like okay, 619 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: that's an idea for season eight, that's an idea for 620 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: you know that in our last season, you know, and 621 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: like breaking the fourth while on the documentary crew Um 622 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: and including that that was an idea that was early 623 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: Um that we just but we knew that was going 624 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,320 Speaker 1: to be at the end put Away. Yeah right, we 625 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,919 Speaker 1: knew it blew up the show, right, And was there 626 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: ever any talk of not doing that but being like 627 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: e Er or something where it would just keep going forever. 628 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: Was there ever any real talk of that just keep 629 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,879 Speaker 1: show going forever? Yeah? Totally. Where did you fall on that? 630 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: I feel it was not possible to make this transition 631 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: idea to slowly bring people on and shift focus. Everyone 632 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: would have to really be on the same page for 633 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: to want that to happen, and not everybody wanted that 634 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: to happen, and Greg really wanted to finish the story, 635 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: and you can't finish the story with everybody gone, right, 636 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you would not have had a satisfying ending 637 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: if after twenty if the show is still on now 638 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: and after another five ten years, we go, okay, well 639 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,320 Speaker 1: now we're going to break the fourth wall. The the 640 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: kind of survivor element where we just if we are 641 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 1: just in season eighteen right now or whatever it would be, 642 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: this show wouldn't be as regarded as well as it is, 643 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,399 Speaker 1: and Survivor would probably be regarded higher than it is 644 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: if it had ended after ten. Right, was there any 645 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: noticeable change in Gregg coming back full time for that 646 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:14,240 Speaker 1: last season and your roles changing again? Well, I spent 647 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: that year mostly trying to get the spin off going, 648 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: writing that, casting that going, focusing on that development. So 649 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: I really wasn't a daily part of the writer's room 650 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: season nine, season nine, Yeah, yeah, there was a part 651 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: of me that was like that I had kind of 652 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: finished in a way, but you were still writing, right, 653 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: We're still acting in every episode and no, uh, you know, 654 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: aside from writing the Farm, that's the only episode I 655 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,839 Speaker 1: wrote that year. Writing and directing the Farm I think 656 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,399 Speaker 1: was the only time I directed that year too. How 657 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,720 Speaker 1: disappointed were you that that that did not go forward? 658 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 1: Very disappoint and I think it would have been a 659 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: really big hit. Why did it not? Again, this is 660 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: the shift over to the the new management Comcasts. I mean, 661 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: I don't see how someone could not give the Farm 662 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,399 Speaker 1: a chance, right, to not give the Dwight spin off 663 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,240 Speaker 1: like a chance like maybe what if it does find itself? 664 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 1: You know? Interesting? So for you, it was really about 665 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: Comcast comes in and buys and doesn't have the seven 666 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: year history with the show is essentially coming in now 667 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,359 Speaker 1: as Steve is gone, Ratings are going down and you're 668 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: finding yourself creatively, and so there hasn't been an investment 669 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: or a buy in exactly. Yeah. So really we needed 670 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: a Kevin Riley. Yeah, we needed a Kevin Riley to 671 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: be there at the time, to be at Comcast, someone 672 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: that saw what could happen. Yeah. Um, why do you 673 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,720 Speaker 1: think that the show has become now the most watch 674 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,720 Speaker 1: show in television five six years after we've shot anything? 675 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:11,280 Speaker 1: Is that true? The most Yeah, fifty two something billion 676 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: minutes watched. That's a hundred thousand people watching it from 677 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:27,800 Speaker 1: the moment they're born until they die, living an average lifes. Wow. 678 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 1: Are they doing that to some people? I think they should. 679 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: It's mean. I mean they wouldn't have a diverse life, 680 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: but potentially a happy life. Um. Do you feel that 681 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: the show in your interactions with people, that it's it's 682 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: bigger today than it was? Definitely? Definitely Yeah, and going younger. Yeah, 683 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,840 Speaker 1: why do you think that is? Why is it connecting 684 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: with people maybe even more so now today? In a 685 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: way it was built for stream me I don't know, 686 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: there's the it's a very hard you know, there's a 687 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: phenomenon out there. It's very hard to explain. But um 688 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: streaming one you kind of pay attention, and a lot 689 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: of shows you're not given any permission to pay attention 690 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: because they're so forced down your throat. UM streaming is 691 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: lightly serialized, like the best of streaming is lightly serialized. 692 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: And we were, you know, with no knowledge of what 693 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: streaming was. That that was just how we thought the 694 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: show would be best. We told stories over years and 695 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: we we really like the mini arcs. I don't know, 696 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: as a viewer, if I'm watching something streaming and it's 697 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: it's too I have to wait too long for a conclusion, 698 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: I get really angry and I'm out. We found these 699 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: six arcs and thirteen arcs, you know that we did 700 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,760 Speaker 1: a lot of three six you know, we had depending 701 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: on what it was. But like Michael Scott Paper Company, 702 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 1: you know, where he takes a journey over six episodes, right, 703 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: which is perfect for streaming. It's very satisfying to watch 704 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 1: six episodes in the beginning something, see the end of it, 705 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 1: and then you know, by the end of it, we're 706 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 1: back to We're back to where we were, even though 707 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: we're playing a giant dark with Michael Scott, you know 708 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: that takes seven years to go through about him becoming 709 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 1: kind of a whole person. So I think I think 710 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 1: we're built for this platform. We're built for today really well. 711 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,120 Speaker 1: So in the last line of the show, Pam says 712 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:41,240 Speaker 1: this line about there's beauty and ordinary things. It being 713 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: Greg's episode, who wrote it, I have to assume that 714 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 1: that's what he thought the show was about, that there 715 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: is beauty in ordinary things. What did you think it 716 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: was about? But yeah, I guess that I thought there was. 717 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: I was probably a little more focused on there's there's 718 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 1: comedy in ordan very things. I mean, and and I 719 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: know he felt both, but um, you know, the the 720 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: commedy that comes from very small, ordinary conflicts is my 721 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 1: favorite stuff. And uh, you know, when we hit that, 722 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,359 Speaker 1: I think we were at our past. You know, right, 723 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,319 Speaker 1: what are you most proud of? I mean, you led 724 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 1: almost half of the run. I'm most proud of what 725 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: we were as an aggregate. You know, it wasn't a 726 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,640 Speaker 1: single moment that I'm more proud of than others. Although 727 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm very proud of a talking head in which you 728 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: did not know the alphabet Lemno. Yeah, yeah, that's what 729 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,880 Speaker 1: I mean. That's what I mean. That little glint, that 730 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 1: little glinting in your eye. I go, We'll here is 731 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:57,399 Speaker 1: something I haven't I haven't ever revealed this before ever, 732 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 1: but I remember you saying to I mean, it was 733 00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,960 Speaker 1: just one of those moments about like we were getting 734 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: towards the end. We're up in your office and you 735 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: said to me, we need you because Steve is leaving, 736 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,880 Speaker 1: only leaves us Dwight. We need someone to do the 737 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:22,360 Speaker 1: really really dumb things. So sorry, we need somebody to 738 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,800 Speaker 1: do the really really dumb things now that Michael was gone, 739 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,400 Speaker 1: as Dwight is there, we need someone to do the 740 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,760 Speaker 1: things that are bigger and or dumber than Dwight. No, okay, 741 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:40,000 Speaker 1: thanks boss. Yeah yeah, um, but you This is sort 742 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: of a side note, but I'm most thankful for all 743 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,279 Speaker 1: of the relationships that I made, and I'm thankful to 744 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 1: you that you trusted me and gave me an opportunity 745 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,200 Speaker 1: to direct. It was a no brainer for me. Really, 746 00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: I know you do an awesome job because I'm smarter 747 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,760 Speaker 1: than everybody else. Yeah, I played dumb, but actually smart 748 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,960 Speaker 1: know you you're a highly. You're highly trained actor, right, 749 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,879 Speaker 1: You're very skilled and trained, and you knew a lot 750 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,719 Speaker 1: about acting, and we were an actor's show, right, so 751 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: I thought that was a no brainer. You know, I 752 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 1: knew you would do it an amazing tob Well, thank you. 753 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 1: I look forward to the phone call to come direct 754 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: here your next show. Um, dude, I appreciate you so 755 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 1: much coming in. It's so fun to talk about this. 756 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,040 Speaker 1: I was with Steve yesterday and some way we just 757 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,840 Speaker 1: started talking about Michael Scott for so long on the 758 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 1: office days. It's fun to do. I didn't want it 759 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: for a long time. It's like, come on, put this 760 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:55,239 Speaker 1: show to bed, um, But it feels good now I 761 00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,680 Speaker 1: can talk about it. Yeah. Well, I think that you 762 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,359 Speaker 1: and I hope this doesn't sound weird. I feel like 763 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: you're the unsung hero of the show that you don't 764 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 1: get the credit that you deserve for your vision and 765 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,919 Speaker 1: innovation that happened during the time that you were there. 766 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,440 Speaker 1: So I want you to know that I appreciate you. Yeah, 767 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 1: no one said that. I do think you're an idiot. 768 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: Well yeah, it takes away some of the good feelings. Okay, Um, 769 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,759 Speaker 1: but thank you for coming in. Thanks for having me here. 770 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: Oh good, there you have it. That is Paul Lieberstein. 771 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: Thank you Paul for sitting down with me. You know 772 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: how much I love you. And I don't know is 773 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,400 Speaker 1: it too late to start to petition to revamp the farm. 774 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,160 Speaker 1: I'll ask Rain if he's free. Uh. In any case, 775 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 1: thank you all for listening. I absolutely love sharing these 776 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,200 Speaker 1: interviews with you, so I hope you're loving them. To 777 00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: have a great week, everybody. The office. Deep Dive is 778 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 1: hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our 779 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,840 Speaker 1: executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, 780 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,680 Speaker 1: our producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is 781 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,680 Speaker 1: Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. 782 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 1: Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great 783 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,880 Speaker 1: friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth 784 00:51:47,920 --> 00:52:01,440 Speaker 1: Olansky