1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cockley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: This is balance of power here in Washington where we're 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 2: having to walk out a little bit today in terms 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: of procedure in the United States Senate as they try 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: to move forward on this budget reconciliation package. The mechanism, 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: of course, reconciliation the one that Republicans are relying on 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: to make sure that they can pass the president's legislative 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: agenda only on a party line vote, no Democrats required. 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 2: The problem is, if you want to use that process, 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: the elements of the package need to pass muster with 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: the Senate parliamentarian, and some of it, Elizabeth McDonough said, 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: parliamentarian ruled today Joe does not indeed pass her test 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: at least this time. 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: That's right. 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 4: The birdbath is happening as we speak. The bird droppings 20 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 4: are piling up, and one of them here is, to 21 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 4: your point, blowing a pretty big hole in this bill. 22 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 4: We are doing a deep walk out today. 23 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 5: You have to do this to. 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 4: Understand what we're talking about and looking forward to that 25 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 4: as no one else we'd walk out with other than 26 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 4: Bill Hogland. But first we want to get to Bloomberg's 27 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 4: Tyler Kendall, who has the latest on these changes to 28 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 4: the bill and what it might mean for the timeline. 29 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 6: Tyler, Yeah, hey, Joe. So, the Senate parliamentarian ruled that 30 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 6: the provision lowering the Medicaid provider tax doesn't comply with 31 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 6: the rules required for reconciliation that Kaylee was just laying 32 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 6: out there now. The Senate plan would have lowered the 33 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 6: Medicaid provider tax over time to three and a half 34 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 6: percent for those states that did expand coverage under the 35 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 6: Affordable Care Act. Essentially, according to that plan, that would 36 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 6: have meant less federal matching funds for these states. So, 37 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 6: on one hand, this is considered to be perhaps a 38 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 6: political win in that it takes off the table one 39 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 6: of the most politically it's ought issues that Senate Republicans 40 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 6: were dealing with. In fact, many of the Republicans had 41 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 6: raised concerns about what lowering the provider tax would mean, 42 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 6: in particular for rural hospitals that utilize it to essentially 43 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 6: up their funding. But on the other hand, it means 44 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 6: less cost savings to the tune of two hundred and 45 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 6: fifty billion dollars when you combine it with some of 46 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 6: the other healthcare provisions that have been stripped out of 47 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,839 Speaker 6: this bill as part of the bird bath process. Now, 48 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 6: we are still waiting on some additional details and clarity 49 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 6: from the Senate Parliamentarian on why this provision in particular 50 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 6: does not meet that threshold that level for reconciliation, since 51 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 6: we know that any provision in this bill will have 52 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 6: to deal with budgetary matters. But at the end of 53 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 6: the day, Joe and Keiley sources tell us that Republicans 54 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 6: might try to rewrite this provision in some way to 55 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 6: make sure that it does get through, but that could 56 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 6: ultimately take time and delay the timeline to get this 57 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 6: done by July fourth. 58 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 3: It's a perfect outline from Tyler Kendall. 59 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Tyler, and the idea of changes 60 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 4: to the provider tax to give you a sense of 61 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 4: how many Republicans, including Democrats, were outraged by this idea, 62 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 4: many of them from rural districts where local hospitals and 63 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 4: nursing homes were set to close. We asked Congresswoman Aaron 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 4: Houchin about this Republican from Indiana just last evening on 65 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 4: the late edition of Balance of Power. 66 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 3: Here's what she said. 67 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 7: I'm going to hear from my hospitals back home. They're 68 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 7: not happy with the Senate proposed version of this bill. 69 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 7: We've heard from them loud and clear. We heard from 70 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 7: them on the House side. This is a funding mechanism 71 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 7: that keeps our rural hospitals alive. So whether we like 72 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 7: the mechanism or not, we do have to give something 73 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 7: in return or something at its place, and we're not 74 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 7: ready to do that yet. So I think that what 75 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 7: the Senate is doing goes too far. I'd like to 76 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 7: see him dial it back to the House version. 77 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: The House version, of course, was a freezing of the 78 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: provider tax level, while as the Senate is looking to 79 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: actually reduce it. But again the parliamentarian says that Senate 80 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: plan as it stands right now is not going to fly. 81 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: And for more, Bigland, senior vice president at the Bipartisan 82 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: Policy Center, is joining us here in our Washington. 83 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 5: D C. 84 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: Studio. So Bill the operative words really are as currently written, 85 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: this cannot fit into the reconciliation process. Do you have 86 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: a sense of what maybe it is the Parliamentarian is 87 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: identifying does not work and how it could be tweaked 88 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 2: in order for its past muster. 89 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 8: Let me let me first address something. It's very we'rewonkey 90 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 8: here this afternoon. As you said, the parliamentarian does not rule. Okay, okay, 91 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 8: chair the chair of the Senate. Who's sitting in the chair, 92 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 8: she advises the chair. So first of all, we have 93 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 8: to there's a real concerns about the parliamentarian's ruling. She's 94 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 8: not ruling, she is advising who's sitting in the chair. 95 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 8: The chair can accept the advice or not accept the advice, 96 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 8: which is important point. Thank you, And I just want 97 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 8: to make that clear in terms I don't our. 98 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 4: News to most people. We hear about the parliamentarian ruling 99 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: all day long. You've got senators calling for her firing today. 100 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 3: Built so that's I think that's so unfortunate. 101 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 8: She is a career person, she's not political. She's just 102 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 8: abiding by the law and she is carrying out her 103 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 8: responsibilities effectively. Reconciliation has become something that's much more than 104 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 8: what it used to be, and people are using it 105 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 8: for things that was never intent. This is supposed to 106 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 8: be a budget act now. In terms of the provider tax, 107 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 8: I don't know the specifics. I can tell you that 108 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 8: I think we had a provision earlier this week that 109 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 8: was ruled that she said violated the bird rull. Had 110 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 8: to do with a snap program and a state to match. 111 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 8: It was a simple fix. 112 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 5: It was a date. 113 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 8: I don't know exactly what it is that's creating the 114 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 8: current problem, but I do have a feeling that it's 115 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 8: probably something that's fixable, because this does save something like 116 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 8: two hundred and eighty billion dollars and fifty billion dollars 117 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 8: over the next years. I just want to make it 118 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 8: clear that this is I think we're rushing to judgment here. 119 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 8: I think the staff now understand there may be some 120 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 8: tweaks they have to make in the legislation and may 121 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 8: be greater than I don't know, but I don't want 122 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 8: to put all this burden that the parliamentarian is ruled 123 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 8: she is advising well. 124 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: I think the reason some people view this as being 125 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: potentially something more definitive is because by and large, the 126 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: signal from Republican leadership to this point has been we 127 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: will abide by the guidance of the parliamentarian. Do you 128 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: think if they cannot fix it, there's a chance that 129 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: they actually decide to ignore her advice. 130 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 8: Well, exactly. Now, what happens is she tells the chair, 131 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 8: this particular provision violates the bird rule, a point of 132 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 8: order is well taken. At that particular point, the chair, 133 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 8: who's sitting in the chair that could be the Vice 134 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 8: President of the United States, could say, well, I don't 135 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 8: think so, and I'm not going to rule that it violates. 136 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 8: Now at that point, Milwonkee, at that point, somebody can 137 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,799 Speaker 8: stand up, I question the ruling of the chair. 138 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 5: And at that. 139 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 8: Point it would require sixty votes to overturn the ruling 140 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 8: of the chair. So the chair can make the final decision, 141 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 8: and it would require sixty votes to overturn the chair. 142 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 8: So it's possible that they could. They could say, listen, 143 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 8: we're gonna go We're gonna roll the dice, and I'm 144 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 8: not going to fire the parliamentarian. We're simply going to 145 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 8: raise the point of water and waive the point of 146 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 8: water if it comes to that. 147 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 4: So it sounds like Senator Turberville should be calling for 148 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 4: the firing of the chair if anyone in this particular case, 149 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 4: which I guess is not a very realistic idea. But 150 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 4: so the idea though that this goes back to the 151 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: drawing board. It can be rewritten in a way that 152 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 4: may satisfy. 153 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 8: The absolutely and I half a feeling that say, this 154 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 8: does have a budgetary consequence. Clearly two hundred and fifty 155 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 8: billion dollars, it does have a pedgetary consequence, yes, and 156 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 8: so I think it can. 157 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 5: It can. 158 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 8: It meets that there must be something else in it, 159 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 8: maybe a date, it may be something. It's very restricted, 160 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 8: but I think this is something that probably can be 161 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 8: fixed by the staff. I don't know a bit fair 162 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 8: about it. I don't know what specifically it was that 163 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 8: created the point of her concerned that it violates the 164 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 8: bird rule. 165 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: So we have a question of if it can be fixed. 166 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: Also a question of on what timeline. Knowing that the 167 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: Senate wanted to have a vote Arama this weekend, start 168 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: the recess come Monday, give it to the House, hope 169 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: this thing is all said and done, signed by the 170 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: President July fourth, What does that timeline look like? 171 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: Now? 172 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 8: In your mind, I've been one of the more pessimistic 173 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 8: ones about this. I think the July fourth deadline is 174 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 8: kind of some arbitrary in terms. We don't have to 175 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 8: have this finish, and I think they can. I'm certain 176 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 8: that's what the President wants, is to have it on 177 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 8: his des but that requires getting it out of the 178 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 8: Senate getting it and they're changing it, so I have 179 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 8: to go back to the House. The houses will have 180 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 8: to be called back from recess next week to vote 181 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 8: on to get it there by the fourth of July. 182 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 8: There's still a lot of work to be done this 183 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 8: can It seems that you should slow down, take your time, 184 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 8: do it right, and get the votes right now. I 185 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 8: don't think they have the votes for what's in the Senate, 186 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 8: let alone maybe what would be in the House, so 187 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 8: it's going to take a little time here still works out. 188 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 8: So I'm the one who probably will miss miss on 189 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 8: this because boy, there's a lot of pressure to get 190 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 8: it done by the fourth. But I think that's a 191 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 8: little bit too ambitious of a schedule right now. 192 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 4: We always learn something when we talked to Bill Hoagland 193 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 4: really appreciate this bill A tempering voice and a bit 194 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 4: of a reality check, right to some of the headlines 195 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 4: that we've been hearing with the Bipartisan Policy Center. Bill 196 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 4: Hogland with us in downtown Washington, d C, just a 197 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 4: few blocks from where Congressman Troy Downing is right now. 198 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 4: The Republican from Montana's second district joins us live from 199 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 4: Capitol Hill for his view on all of this. In Congressman, 200 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 4: it's great to have you back with us on Bloomberg 201 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 4: TV and radio. You hear the concerns about timeline. Now 202 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 4: that the parliamentarian has slightly changed the picture on the 203 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 4: Senate side, can you still get this done? Will the 204 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 4: House be ready to catch a long ball if the 205 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 4: Senate throws it out there, say Sunday night or Monday. 206 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I'm optimistic. 207 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 9: We have had a lot of deadlines that people were 208 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 9: saying there's no way we're going to hit, and we've 209 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 9: we've still met those and that's happened this entire Congress. 210 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 9: Still optimistic we can hit that deadline. I know there's 211 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 9: a lot of work out there, but you know, I'm 212 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 9: confident in the good work on the uh you know, 213 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 9: in the other chamber, and what we can get done 214 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 9: in the House. 215 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 2: Well, when we consider what's going on in the other 216 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: chamber today. This decision or this advice from the parliamentarian 217 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 2: that changes to the provider tax does not fall into 218 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: what is eligible under reconciliation. Is that a good thing 219 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: or a bad thing in your mind? 220 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 9: Congressman, Well, I it's unfortunate. There's a lot of stuff 221 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 9: that has been you know, fallen by the wayside with 222 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 9: these decisions with the Parliamentarian. And I think there are 223 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 9: you know, opportunities to you know, bring points of order, 224 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 9: see what can be done on the Senate side, and 225 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 9: I really hope that the Senators come to a good 226 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 9: resolution here. But I'll say I'm really disappointed in a 227 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 9: lot of the stuff that's fallen off, you know, and 228 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 9: that's one of them. There's a lot of things that 229 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 9: we worked really hard in getting consensus into getting really 230 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 9: good policy. And the part that is the most frustrating 231 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 9: about this is I think that you know, it wasn't 232 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 9: perfect for everybody, but we good, we got a really 233 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 9: good product through the House, something that we can get 234 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 9: pasted in the House, and now that it's being kind 235 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 9: of taken apart or these parts are taken out because 236 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 9: it all works together, you know, intricately, and so it's 237 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 9: frustrating for us on the House side to see it 238 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 9: going through this process. 239 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 5: But I'm hoping that the. 240 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 9: Other chamber can you know, get to some consensus to 241 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 9: get some of this stuff back in. And a lot 242 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 9: of these are key components that will need to continue 243 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 9: to have the sport that we have had on the House. 244 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 4: Of course, you don't have a parliamentarian to deal with 245 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 4: on the House side, Congressman, right, so you're speaking slightly 246 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 4: different languages here, and I wonder how worried you are 247 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 4: about what else we could hear from the parliamentarian if 248 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 4: she has a problem, for instance, with the current policy baseline, 249 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 4: the method of an account of accounting that you were 250 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 4: using in the House. 251 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 3: That would be a game changer, would it not. 252 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 5: It would be a game changer. 253 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,719 Speaker 9: And it really comes down to the you know, the 254 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 9: same thing I just said is is we worked really hard. 255 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 5: You know, leadership, word worked, the rank and file work. 256 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 9: We all worked really hard on getting some good policy 257 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 9: together that all works together really well. I mean we're 258 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 9: looking at, you know, just how good this bill is 259 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 9: in terms of the tax cuts, in terms of securing 260 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 9: the border, of supporting our military everything that's in there, 261 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 9: making sure that we are protecting medicaid for those who 262 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 9: are actually entitled to it. There's so much good policy 263 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 9: in here, and it is a little frustrating to see 264 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 9: things happening over there. But I'm still optimistic that we're 265 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 9: going to get some resolution there, that the Senate is 266 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 9: going to work hard getting this through so it still 267 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 9: passes muster and we get a good product that we 268 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 9: can pass quickly in the House. 269 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 2: At this point in Congressman, as you hear from your 270 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: colleagues across the conference, are you more concerned that fiscal 271 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: conservatives in the Freedom Caucus or the Salt Caucus could 272 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 2: ultimately be ones that act as the greatest barrier to 273 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: making sure this thing gets requisite votes. 274 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 9: Well, you know, here's the thing is, they both have 275 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 9: strong voices, and of course we all have to listen 276 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 9: to both sides of that to get something through. And 277 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 9: we got this through in the House by one vote majority. 278 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 9: So it's it's a fine line there of making sure 279 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 9: that we are finding as best consensus as we can 280 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 9: amongst these different parts of it. 281 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 5: You know, everything you know, like you mentioned from the. 282 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 9: Freedom Caucuses concerns and you know, a lot of those 283 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 9: I share to you know, the concerns we have on 284 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 9: the other side, and you know some of those I share. 285 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 9: You know, it's a very fine line that we got 286 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 9: this through. Those voices are all meaningful because we can 287 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 9: only you know, we can't lose that many votes and 288 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 9: still get this pass. So we need to make sure 289 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 9: that we are, you know, finding not the perfect, but 290 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 9: the good. And I think what we have right now 291 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 9: is a really good bill. And if we can continue 292 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 9: listening to both sides of this and understand that not 293 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 9: everybody's going to get everything that they want, but this 294 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 9: is a very important bill to the American people. 295 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 5: It's a very important. 296 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 9: Bill to my district in central and eastern Montana, and 297 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 9: I do believe that we are going to find that 298 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 9: consensus and get something that. 299 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 5: Is a very strong bill through here. 300 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 4: When you talk to your colleagues from New York, New 301 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 4: Jersey and some of the other salt states, or at 302 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 4: least lawmakers with salt districts, Congressman, what's the conversation, like, 303 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 4: you don't believe any of them would actually vote no 304 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 4: and allow people's taxes to go up over the specific 305 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 4: singular issue of salt. 306 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 3: Do you. 307 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 9: Well, that's been a big conversation that I've heard bits 308 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 9: and pieces, and you know, a lot of the colleagues 309 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 9: that I have on that side, I mean, they've been 310 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 9: very very strong in their convictions there. 311 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 5: Whether they would do that or not, I got to 312 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 5: tell you, I don't know. I'm not really comfortable. 313 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 9: Putting them to the test because because I don't know, 314 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 9: and it's really important to me, it's really important to 315 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 9: my constituents that we get these tax cuts and we 316 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 9: get these spending cuts. 317 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: In all right, Congressman, we appreciate you joining us live 318 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: from Capitol Hill. That's Republican Congressman Troy Downing, representing Montana's 319 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 2: second district, live with us on Bloomberg TV and Radio. 320 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Of course, we're going to be 321 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 2: hearing more about this one Big Beautiful Bill later on 322 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 2: this afternoon from the President of the United States himself, 323 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: holding an event slated for four pm Eastern Time, dubbed 324 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: the One Big Beautiful Event. He's going to be trying 325 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: hard to make the case for this legislation and everything 326 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: he says it will do for Americans. 327 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 4: Least, he's staying on brand with this that's going to 328 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 4: coincide with the closing bell, at least by the schedule here, 329 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 4: it's going to be joined by what they're calling everyday 330 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 4: Americans at the White House. It's the East Room. We're 331 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,239 Speaker 4: going to be hearing from a number of different workers, stakeholders. 332 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 4: I guess who could benefit from this bill. The President 333 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 4: could also make some comments about Iran. Yes, and we're 334 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 4: going to get into that coming up next with our 335 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 4: panel Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano. Or with us You 336 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 4: saw that news conference of the Pentagon this morning, huh yeah, with. 337 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 2: The Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, also watching the press conference 338 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: from Caroline Leavitt or the briefing rather, she says no 339 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: talks are scheduled yet between the US and Iran. We'll 340 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: have more next here. On Bloomberg TV and Radio. 341 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ketches 342 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple 343 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 344 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: can also listen live on em and as on Alexa 345 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played 346 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg eleven thirty. 347 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 4: A lot of us started our morning started our days 348 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 4: with eyes on the Pentagon, Pete Hegseth in a news 349 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 4: conference alongside the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Staff as 350 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 4: announced by the President of the United States last evening, 351 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 4: they got behind the podiums just around eight a m. 352 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 4: With a room full of reporters. The Pentagon Press Corps 353 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 4: was assembled for an update on the mission over Iran, and, 354 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 4: as the President put it, to defend the dignity of 355 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 4: the pilots who flew the B two bombers and the 356 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 4: other aircraft, not to mention the support crew that was 357 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 4: part of that entire massive precision strike against Iran. We 358 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 4: didn't learn a lot more about intelligence, although we did 359 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 4: talk about it quite a bit. Chairman of the Joint 360 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 4: Chiefs showed a video about this bunker busting bomb its capabilities. 361 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 4: They had satellite photos of the four doh site, for instance, 362 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 4: in Iran that we attacked, but there wasn't new intelligence 363 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 4: to share. The headline on the terminal says it all. 364 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 4: Heg Seth berates media as questions linger on Iran strike impact. 365 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 4: The Secretary of Defense went out of his way to 366 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 4: castigate reporters in the room. 367 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 10: Listen because you and I mean specifically you the press, 368 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 10: specifically you the press corps, because you cheer against Trump 369 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 10: so hard. It's like in your DNA and in your blood, 370 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 10: cheer against Trump because you want him not to be 371 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 10: successful so bad, you have to cheer against the efficacy 372 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 10: of these strikes. 373 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: So let's play this now to our political panel. Rick 374 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 2: Davis and Jeanie Schanzeno are both with US Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick, 375 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 2: of course partner at Stone Court Capital and Republican strategists. 376 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 2: Genie or democratic analyst and senior democracy fellow at the 377 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: Center for the Study of the Presidency. And Rick, as 378 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 2: we see the Defense secretary quite literally calling out the press, 379 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 2: who was in the room for this press conference, what 380 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: do you make of this strategy by the administration to 381 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: undermine basically the news media and its coverage of this, 382 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 2: rather than trying to iron out for sure first what 383 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: we actually do and do not know about how effective 384 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 2: these strikes actually were without having the intelligence in hand. 385 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 5: Yeah. 386 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 11: Look, I mean I don't think it's anything new. I mean, 387 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 11: we've all lived through the era during George W. Bush, 388 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 11: where the Secretary of Defense then Don Rumsfeld would berate 389 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 11: the press on a daily basis talk about, you know, 390 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 11: how they didn't understand what was going on, or that 391 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 11: he had intelligence that they didn't have and he wasn't 392 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 11: going to share it, and so this is nothing. 393 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 3: New in that regard. 394 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 11: I would say it would do the press some good 395 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 11: not to chase the speeding truck every time it leaves 396 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 11: the garage. And what I mean by that is there's 397 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 11: a leak report. It's a draft report, you know, and 398 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 11: yet the press reported it as this is the conclusion, 399 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 11: and we all know that they're still working on this thing. 400 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 11: Today the CIA came out and said it was Fedora 401 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 11: was severely damaged much more, echoing the president's initial comments. 402 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 11: We don't know where the President's getting his information, and 403 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 11: we don't know the conclusions of this storyline when it 404 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 11: comes to what is or isn't the future of the 405 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 11: Iranian nuclear program. But you would think that it was 406 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 11: a disaster, the attack that the US put on Iran. 407 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 11: And so do I feel for the Secretary of Defense 408 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 11: and his frustration he can't control the media. But I 409 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 11: think the media needs to learn to control itself a 410 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 11: little bit because it is almost borderline insulting to the 411 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 11: military who risked their lives to do the attack. To 412 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 11: begin with, the last thing I would say about second farriers, 413 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 11: he ought to quit call on the President of United 414 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 11: States Trump. 415 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 3: He should call him the president. 416 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 5: It's his boss. 417 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 3: And if I kept. 418 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 11: Repeating my last name of my boss over and over again, 419 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 11: I think he would fire me, and I think that 420 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 11: would be justified. 421 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 3: Wow. 422 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 4: All right, a pretty interesting read from Rick, and a 423 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 4: pretty even handed one, Genie. And I'm curious your thoughts 424 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 4: on this, because, of course, blaming the media is the 425 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 4: oldest trick in the book, and it's not something that 426 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 4: we're unfamiliar with when it comes to this administration. Do 427 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 4: we also need, however, to acknowledge the fact that the 428 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 4: Pentagon Press. 429 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,719 Speaker 3: Corps is a little bit different. 430 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 4: These are specialized reporters in many cases who are not 431 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 4: on TV every day, and they're not chasing every lead 432 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 4: that comes out of the White House. Many have been 433 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 4: there for thirty years or more, including our own Tony OsO, 434 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 4: who is in the front row for that event today. 435 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 4: Is it their job to question what's going on right now, 436 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 4: Genie or wait for a more complete assessment. 437 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 12: They are doing their job. I mean, this should be 438 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 12: called out for what it is it is distraction, and 439 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 12: who better to get us distracted than the media that 440 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 12: everybody likes to pound on. There was not one report 441 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 12: that I saw, and I would love if somebody would 442 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 12: share it with me, of anybody who reported on that 443 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 12: assessment from the DIA which said that this is the 444 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 12: final word, this is it. Nobody said that. They said 445 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 12: it was a preliminary assessment. And if they did say that, 446 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 12: they're wrong, and they can be called out on that. 447 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 12: But this is all a distraction from the real issue, 448 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 12: which when Pete Hegseth was asked about, he too sidestepped it, 449 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 12: which is what happened to the enriched uranium and the 450 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 12: centrifuges that were not at those three facilities that presumably 451 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 12: survived the strikes. That means that Iran has the elements 452 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 12: to reconstitute their nuclear program. When he was asked that 453 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 12: by the crazy press, he didn't answer. And so that 454 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 12: is what needs to be addressed. What is the state 455 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 12: of the scientific community in Iran? Where does the knowledge 456 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 12: lie to reconstitute this, because you cannot bomb away that 457 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 12: kind of knowledge. He sidestepped that all in his effort 458 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 12: to do what this administration doesn't quite Frankly, a lot 459 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 12: of administrations do is to try to distract the public 460 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 12: with nonsense. Go ahead, attack the press. They are doing 461 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 12: their jobs. But give us the answers we deserve and need. 462 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 12: And by the way, if the assessment is not ready, 463 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 12: then just say that. But that's not what they've said. 464 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 12: They have discounted the assessment. They don't politically and like 465 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 12: in favor of one that is equally as preliminary, and 466 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 12: that is the one the CIA won. So they often conflict. 467 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 12: That's pretty standard. We can wait for the assessments, but 468 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 12: answer the question the uranium and the state of reconstitution 469 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 12: in Iran well. 470 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 2: The White House Press Secretary Caroline Lovitt is in the 471 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: process of answering questions from the press in the briefing 472 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: room right now as we speak, and no surprise, Iran 473 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 2: is featuring heavily in the questions from reporters. Some of 474 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 2: the things we've heard from Caroline Lovitt include that no 475 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 2: talks are yet scheduled with Iran, but the US is 476 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 2: on a diplomatic path with Iran, and that the goal 477 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 2: of meeting with Iran would be to work towards a 478 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 2: lasting piece. She also noted to the conversation we were 479 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: just having that. Only tidbits of the Iran intelligence report 480 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: were leaked to CNN and The New York Times. But 481 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: Rick on this idea of talks, in particular, knowing the 482 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: President in the Netherlands yesterday at the NATO summit said 483 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: he doesn't think it's necessary to have a diplomatic deal 484 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 2: with Iran. How do you see this actually moving forward? 485 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 2: Is it actually necessary? Do you believe the President still 486 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 2: wants to be able to say he made a deal 487 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: with Troan? 488 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that certainly. 489 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 11: Republican senators, more hawkish guys, I know, they want to 490 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 11: see an agreement with Iran, and they want to see 491 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 11: Iron agree to do no more processing of nuclear fuel, right, 492 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 11: I mean like they they want an agreement that is 493 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 11: verifiable by i EI and other inspectors and and and 494 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 11: and and bypass this whole debate as to whether they 495 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 11: could or couldn't do it, and get them to commit 496 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 11: to not doing it. And if they commit to not 497 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 11: doing it, then we can start doing things like taking 498 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 11: off sanctions and looking at better diplomatic relations and all 499 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 11: those things that we want to have. But it comes 500 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 11: at a price. It comes at a price. To you know, 501 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 11: the Western societies that want fewer nuclear weapons running around 502 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 11: the world. And so I think that initially the President's 503 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 11: probably you know, first reaction of hey, you know, they 504 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 11: they can't make a weapon. Now that may be technically true, 505 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 11: but the real question Israel is going to ask, and 506 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 11: people like Lindsey Graham and John Thune and others are 507 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 11: going to say, is what can we do to tie 508 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 11: up around so that this never becomes another issue where 509 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 11: we have to get beef two bombers over their airspace. 510 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 4: They're talking as well in the White House briefing about 511 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 4: the sharing of intelligence with Congress and questions about limiting 512 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 4: that information, Genie, something that we've talked about quite a 513 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 4: bit this week. There was, in fact a briefing schedule 514 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 4: for today with lawmakers, a Senate briefing that had been 515 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 4: limited to just Pete Hegseth. We understand Tulsea Gabbert, who 516 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 4: testified in March, of course that our intelligence agencies assessed 517 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 4: that Iran was not building a nuclear weapon notably absent 518 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 4: from this briefing. What do you make of this turning 519 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 4: of the screws on intel sharing with Congress? 520 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 12: Yeah, you know, they've been talking a lot about this leak, 521 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 12: and absolutely, if there is a leak and that leak 522 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 12: is coming from wherever it's coming, it should be investigated 523 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 12: and they should plug the hole. But that does not 524 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 12: mean that they get to bypass the law which says 525 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 12: that they have to alert Congress and they have to 526 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 12: brief them within forty eight hours. And so I'm happy 527 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 12: the briefing is occurring today. It should be a full 528 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 12: throttle briefing. So it is concerning when people are kept out, 529 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 12: but that's obviously the administration's decision to make. 530 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 6: You know. 531 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 12: It is fascinating by the way that you have Donald 532 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 12: Trump on the one hand saying that no talks are needed, 533 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 12: but yet he cannot provide proof that the nuclear program 534 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 12: is gone, because what would they do to ensure Iran 535 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 12: can comply will comply with this no rebuilding? I mean, 536 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 12: that is the question that needs to be answered. And 537 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 12: if you're not going to talk with them, how do 538 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 12: you ensure that? And Congress has a right to know 539 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 12: all of that. And so we are once again in 540 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 12: a position where anybody who takes power in Iran going 541 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 12: forward is going to say we were hit because we 542 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 12: didn't have nuclear weapons. The deterrent is nuclear, let us 543 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 12: go under ground aka North Korea's model, and let us reconstitute. 544 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 12: And the President because he wants to say this was 545 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 12: one and done decades and I solved the problem in 546 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 12: twelve days or twelve hours or whatever, he says, he 547 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 12: doesn't want to deal with that very real what would 548 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 12: be a catastrophe for the West that Rick was just 549 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 12: talking about. And that's what Congress deserves to know from 550 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 12: our defense sector. 551 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 3: For what it's worth. 552 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 4: Today, the reporting is that Pete Hagseth is along with 553 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 4: Marco Rubio, John Ratcliffe, General Dan Caine will be part 554 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 4: of that briefing, just to be clear, and not Tulcy Gabbard. 555 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 4: Last evening, we've spoke with Senator Tammy Duckworth who suggested 556 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 4: that hag Seth may alone be briefing them. Great conversation 557 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 4: and thanks to both the Eugenie Schanzano and Rick Davis 558 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 4: Bloomberg Politics contributors with us here on Balance of Power 559 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 4: Alive from Washington Thursday edition alongside Kaylee Lines, I'm Joe 560 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 4: Matthew as we turn to the cyber threat against the 561 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 4: United States, but also the way this information is collected 562 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 4: Kaylee and disseminated. We've got a real expert on this 563 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 4: coming up. 564 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 565 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 566 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: Apple Coarclay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 567 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 568 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 569 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 4: Thank you for being with us on the Thursday edition, 570 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 4: the early edition of Balance of Power on Bloomberg Radio 571 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 4: on the satellite channel one twenty one Bloomberg Originals. 572 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 3: Yes, YouTube as well. 573 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 4: If you're not on YouTube right now, it's a good 574 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 4: time to come on in search Bloomberg Business News Live 575 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 4: because we have something special for you here. Following the 576 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 4: news conference this morning at the Pentagon with Pete Hagsath 577 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 4: and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Course Secretary of 578 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 4: Defense castigating the media for getting the story wrong on 579 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 4: Iran and not celebrating our men and women in uniform, 580 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 4: there are still massive questions about the intelligence complex behind 581 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 4: this claim that we destroyed Iran's nuclear program. We're going 582 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 4: to get into that because Laura is a true expert, 583 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 4: having helped to run the intelligence community. By the way, 584 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 4: that's got a capital I and a capital C. I'll 585 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 4: explain that in just a moment, but we want to 586 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 4: zoom in first on the cyber threats also part of 587 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 4: Laura's specialty against US banks. This is something that came 588 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 4: up in testimony this week that we brought you live 589 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 4: on Bloomberg when Fedchaer J. 590 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 3: Powell went up to the house. 591 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 4: Remember he had two days of testimony this week, and 592 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 4: of course we focused on his commentary about inflation, interest rates, tariffs, 593 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 4: But how about cyber threats from Iran against US banks. 594 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 4: This is a conversation with Congressman Gotttheimer who was questioning 595 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 4: the FED chair. 596 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: Let's listen. 597 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 13: We're in touch with the other regulators and the parts 598 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 13: of the government that that work on cyber as you know, 599 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 13: and you know we're in touch with the banks to say, 600 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 13: you know, for people to be on the alert for 601 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 13: things like that to happen. And also we're on the 602 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 13: alert because you know we're a target as well, so 603 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 13: you're right to raise it. You know, it's a big issue. 604 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 4: Enter Laura Galante, now principal at West exec Advisor's former 605 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 4: as I mentioned cyber executive for the intelligence community. Yes, 606 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 4: that's a capital I and a capital C. And just 607 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 4: to explain, this is a coalition, as self described of 608 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 4: eighteen separate US government agencies that analyze and disseminate intelligence. 609 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 4: The intelligence community that you ran cyber for stitches all 610 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 4: of this together into one composite which we're still waiting 611 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 4: for when it comes to Iran, and I want to 612 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 4: ask you about that in a moment. Laura, welcome back. 613 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 4: It's really great to have you on Bloomberg. 614 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 5: Nice to be here, Jo to hear. 615 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 4: That out in the open in a congressional hearing. What 616 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 4: is the FED prepared for and what threat are we 617 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 4: facing cyber threat from Iran? 618 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 14: Chairman Paul has been laying out cyber threats as a 619 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 14: key issue for Wall Street for years, and with the 620 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 14: Iranian activity the bombs dropped on Saturday, we're definitely in 621 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 14: a heightened environment in terms of what Iran's willing to 622 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 14: do now in terms of Wall Street and the threat 623 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 14: to banks and the financial sector, they're always on alert. 624 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 14: These are platinum security programs that the banks have, but 625 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 14: where Iran is going to play as on the psychological 626 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 14: the influence operations being really loud and taking credit for 627 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 14: activity so where the banks have to focus is where's 628 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 14: there going to be something disruptive where an actor from 629 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 14: Iran can claim that they've had an impact on Wall Street, 630 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 14: on the financial sector, and the Iranian government want to 631 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 14: use that to their advantage at home and domestically. 632 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, how much of this stuff do we never hear 633 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 4: about because nobody wants to say openly that they've been 634 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 4: attacked or hacked, and nobody wants to take credit for 635 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 4: the attack to begin with. 636 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 14: Well, there's a couple pieces to disclosure. The banks in 637 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 14: particular have a lot of regulators and are really incentive 638 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 14: and do a great job about communicating where when they're threatened. 639 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 14: There's other sectors I'll give you water for example, who 640 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 14: don't have the same incentive structure to be able to 641 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 14: detect and then be able to talk about the cyber 642 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 14: attacks that are hitting them. And this is where Iranian 643 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 14: activity could get really interesting and threatening for the next 644 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 14: few months. Yeah, water sector, energy sector, even transportation. Where 645 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 14: Ranian cyberacetors have focused in the past is getting into 646 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,479 Speaker 14: the industrial control systems, sort of the tech interface that 647 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 14: controls water levels, chlorine water pumps, that sort of thing. 648 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 14: Planting and disrupt problem much later, right, Yeah, even turning 649 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 14: them off. In other cases, they'll put up the equivalent 650 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 14: of kind of digital graffiti, a note that says Israel 651 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 14: to take down Israel, this device was made in Israel. 652 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 14: Iran is here really threatening again, kind of a psychological effect. 653 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 14: But different municipalities have had to take down their water 654 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 14: systems as a result of this just in the last 655 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 14: couple of years. 656 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 3: So is this Iran or China or both? 657 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 14: This is Iran in the case we're talking about now, 658 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 14: China's got prepositioned access at a pretty deep level across 659 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 14: the energy sector. The thought prepositioned access you know, Director Ray, 660 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 14: the former FBI director, called them sleeper cells. But essentially 661 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 14: they've got cyber access in networks that they could use 662 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 14: at a time and place that they're choosing. And the 663 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 14: thought process for China, who's a real strategic actor here, 664 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 14: and it's the Chinese military who's doing this, is use 665 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 14: that strategic leverage to change how US political will works. 666 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 14: Will China be able to deter the US from coming 667 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 14: to Taiwan's aid or another ally in the Asia Pacific? 668 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 14: And they're using those cyber accesses or lying in weight 669 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 14: to use those if. 670 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 10: They need them. 671 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 3: Very scary. 672 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 4: We're talking about a ceasefire with Iran, making a deal 673 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 4: with Iran. We're going to sit down at the table 674 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 4: next week. The missiles aren't flying, but these threats continue. 675 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 4: Shouldn't this be part of a ceasefire agreement or a 676 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 4: piece deal with Iran. 677 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 14: Iranian cyber activity has been happening in the last week. 678 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 14: Albania was actually yeah, Albania has actually been the victim 679 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 14: of some of this. They harbor a pro Iranian group. 680 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 14: So the actors here are on it now. The question 681 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 14: in the next couple weeks, but even months, is what 682 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 14: can Iran touch in terms of US targets, US critical 683 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 14: infrastructure targets and be able to tout the impact of 684 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 14: that and potentially use that as a way to get 685 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 14: more leverage in the ceasefire discussions, in other negotiations that 686 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 14: are going to be happening. 687 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 4: Amazing, This is exactly the conversation that I thought it 688 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 4: might be, Laura, because we learn a lot when we 689 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 4: talk to you, and I want to ask you about 690 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 4: the debate that's going on surrounding the use of the 691 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 4: dissemination of the politicization. 692 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 3: Of intelligence in Washington. 693 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 4: At the moment you saw the Defense Secretary of the 694 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 4: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs this mor trying to stitch 695 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 4: together a composite to back up claims that Iran's nuclear 696 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 4: program has been obliterated. As the President puts it, we 697 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 4: had an initial assessment that was apparently leaked to some 698 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 4: news organizations, including the Washington Post, CNN, New York Times, 699 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 4: suggesting that we set. 700 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 3: Them back by only months. 701 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 4: And I know that the President has been very angry 702 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 4: about this in the Pentagon, as least as led by 703 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 4: the civilian leadership of the Pentagon, suggesting that we've insulted 704 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,760 Speaker 4: the dignity of the pilots who flew this incredible mission 705 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 4: that I think we all agree was quite impressive and 706 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 4: might have revolutionized the way we do this. Talk to 707 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 4: us about the process, because we're told it'll take weeks 708 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 4: before we really know what happened. 709 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 3: You were part of an organization that. 710 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 4: In fact oversaw eighteen different agencies. How many are working 711 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 4: on this? How long will it take to have a 712 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 4: real answer? 713 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 14: Putting together a damage assessment, especially when it's complex, is 714 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 14: what we're seeing after Saturday, Multiple targets, multiple different ways 715 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 14: to read how that destruction happened against those targets. This 716 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 14: is going to take time, and one of the things 717 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 14: that folks in the intelligence community are going to be 718 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 14: incredibly diligent about is making sure that they're taking a 719 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 14: variety of sources. Some of that sourcing will come from allies, 720 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 14: some of that sourcing will come from reports on the ground. 721 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 14: It'll come from a myriad of sources, and they need 722 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 14: to take that into account to really understand what the 723 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 14: damage looks like. So these first preliminary days, it's wild 724 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 14: that this is playing out in the public sphere. The 725 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 14: debates around how to gauge this damage and how to 726 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 14: convey that and how to explain it is where these 727 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 14: eighteen agencies are going to be having really fruitful discussions 728 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 14: and then putting that together for the President in a 729 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 14: variety of intelligence products. That's going to be the key 730 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 14: work here, and it is it's tough when you have 731 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 14: Pentagon leadership, when you have DoD coming out and saying 732 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 14: some of this. But one of the lines that Cain 733 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 14: said that I think is worth seizing on is DoD 734 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 14: doesn't create its own homework. The intelligence community does the 735 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 14: damage assessment, and that's a really key point here, so 736 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 14: let the intelligence community really get down to it and 737 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 14: understand what's happening. 738 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 4: Well, once again, it is really the civilian leadership that's 739 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 4: taking this stand right. We haven't heard official Pentagon, beginning 740 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 4: with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, say exactly what 741 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 4: the President has said. I don't want to pull you 742 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 4: into a political conversation here, but it is remarkable and 743 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 4: I'm guessing your phone's been blowing up with a lot 744 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 4: of folks from the intell community. Remarkable to see this 745 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 4: administration and specifically this president, having denigrated the intelligence community 746 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 4: for many years, now turning to it for support to 747 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 4: back up this argument. 748 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 14: The intelligence community strength at its core, and you have 749 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 14: so many professionals in there who've really dedicated their time 750 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 14: and service to an unbiased approach to the facts. 751 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 10: And what they're really going. 752 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 14: To focus on here is not being politicized and getting 753 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,479 Speaker 14: straight down to here's what we know has happened, here's 754 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 14: what we don't know, and then using what we call 755 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 14: confidence language caveats a way to explain that room and 756 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 14: political leadership. And it is remarkable to see Trump, you know, 757 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 14: so involved in the discussions with intelligence community assessments right 758 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 14: now when he wrote them off so much in the 759 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 14: first in the first administration. But this is this is 760 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 14: the work, and this is the moment when everybody should 761 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 14: really be looking to the intelligence community to understand the picture, 762 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 14: and that picture has to inform our actions. If we 763 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 14: lose that and politicize that, that's when we're really not 764 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 14: going to have a clear understanding of what's going on, 765 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 14: and that will not be good. 766 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 3: For the Are these leaks politically motivated? 767 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,280 Speaker 4: When you hear about an initial assessment from a single 768 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 4: agency knocking around certain quarters of the news media, does 769 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 4: that bother you? 770 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 14: I can't say leaks are always bothered someone classified intelligence. 771 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,359 Speaker 14: To put it mildly right, they shouldn't be out there. 772 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 14: The question is can these agencies get the space that 773 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 14: they deserve to have the debates internally to see it first? 774 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 5: Right? 775 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 14: This isn't something that makes any sense, and in fact, 776 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 14: it's really anathetical to national security to be having these 777 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 14: intelligence debates on the outside. You want to give professionals 778 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 14: the space to really batter around to the facts, bat 779 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 14: around different. 780 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 10: Sources, and get to a conclusion that they agree on. 781 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 4: In our remaining moment, here does this go public when 782 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 4: there's a final product, or is this something that we'll 783 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,280 Speaker 4: only hear about years later. 784 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 14: That's going to be up to the decision makers and 785 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 14: the intelligence community on what's releasable and what needs to 786 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 14: stay within channels. And a lot of that's about protecting sources. 787 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 14: It's about a long term view on American intelligence and 788 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 14: what we preserve in what makes sense to put out publicly. 789 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 14: So we'll have to wait and see. 790 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 4: Is there an initial just to add on to that, 791 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 4: an initial reading that's used internally by the Pentagon, for instance, 792 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 4: to decide if they need to go back in hit 793 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 4: it again. 794 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 14: There's going to be a variety of intelligence products that 795 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 14: are created over time that different policymakers and the Pentagon 796 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 14: and elsewhere will rely upon. But this is going to 797 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 14: be a really dynamic and important focus across the agencies. 798 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 4: We've got to do this again, stay close to us 799 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 4: while we figured this out. It's really great to have 800 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 4: you back. I told you this would be an important 801 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,399 Speaker 4: conversation with Laura Galante, and there you have it. Where 802 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 4: else are you going to hear a conversation like that? 803 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 4: But here this hour on Bloomberg, Principal West exec advisor's 804 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 4: former cyber executive for the Intelligence community, Google that the 805 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 4: intelligence community capital I capital C. You might learn something 806 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 4: while you're at it. Thanks for listening to the Balance 807 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,720 Speaker 4: of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, 808 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 4: at Apple, Spotify. 809 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 3: Or wherever you get your podcasts, and 810 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 4: You can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC 811 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 4: at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.