WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The London Torso Murders 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.560 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:06.480 by Loose Seals. Instead, it's brought to you by bubble Bar. 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:11.000 Bubble Bar designs premium fashion, jewelry and accessories to make 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.160 it easy to experiment with your style and your own 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.720 kind of whatever. I love jewelry, which you don't know 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.040 because you don't get to see me. But bubble Bar 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.440 has some really really cute stuff. Better yet, bubble Bar 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:27.160 believes a percent in customer happiness, and they have real 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.160 people to talk to you if you have any problems 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:33.320 or anything like that. 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But if you've read the book, you know 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.680 it's super, super scary, So go see it in theaters October, 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:38.759 I think as looking. Hi there, welcome to another episode 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:45.200 of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, as always, by Devin and Steve, 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:49.840 and we are going to talk about another really fascinating 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.320 little mystery. Uh. This is a series of really grewsome 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.640 serial killings that took place in London in the eighties. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.400 And I'm not talking about Jack the Ripper did that already, Yeah, 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.560 we did that already. This is this guy is actually 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.080 worse than Jack, I believe it or not. And the 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.160 reason I'm doing this is well, of course this is 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.840 October and this is a Halloween month, as you know, 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.560 and so we decided we're going to talk about mysteries 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:18.600 that are gory, creepy or scarier Queen style mysteries absolutely 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.280 because Halloween, right, Yeah, lean into our true time crime 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:27.040 nature exactly. I want to give a shout out first 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.919 to our listener, Mary, who I think suggested this back 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.200 in Mars. I'm not sure, but she said that we 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.680 should do a story about the Torso and the Thames. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.680 I did a little checking on the interwebs. And there's 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.880 another more recent one, like in two thousand and one 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.639 they found the child's torso floating in the Thames River, 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:45.720 and it was a big story in the US. That 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.680 wasn't the one she was suggested, you'd rather talk about 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.240 this one than not. No, it is a better one, yeah, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.680 so Mary, I think you suggested it, so thanks. Yeah. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.320 And also first a warning, this is a very gruesome tale. 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:04.840 Would you guys not agree? Yeah? Yeah, some listeners may 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.799 find it disturbing, because well it is disturbing, so you 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.080 listener discretion, and if you decide to turn off your 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.720 iPod not listen, we won't take any of less of you, 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.000 and we won't make fun of you. So let's get 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:22.600 on with us. Not that they turned it off, Yeah, okay, okay. 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.440 What we're talking about is the London Torso murders of 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.840 the late eighteen eighties. These are also known as the 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.480 Thames Torso murders and more less often as the embankment 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.080 murders that take place right around the time that Jack 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.640 the Ripper was making a name for himself. And as 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.440 I said before, in my opinion, they were kind of 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.120 more heinous than Jack the Ripper's work. But for one 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.360 some reason or another, Jack the Ripper is a household name, 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.360 and nobody's heard of the Torso murderer. Why why Well, 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.120 I have series about that. I'll talk about that a 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.280 little later, I guess. But but you know, there's a 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:56.360 lot of Jack had a better publicists, perhaps, yeah, or 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:58.720 maybe the press could just only focus on one heinous 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:00.560 killer at the time and so they up the coin. 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.240 Actually that could be so let me get into the 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.160 murders real quick. There weren't near There weren't quite as 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.000 many as Jack, so that might have count for some 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.880 of it. The first murder took place in what's called Rainhom. 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.680 It's spelled rayn Ham, and I think it might be Rainhom, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.360 but knowing you know your friends, the British is probably 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:24.360 pronounced rum, so I'm gonna go with Raynhom. I guess. 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.760 Our first body was found in eighties seven in Random, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.360 which is on the Thames on the eastern outskirts of London, 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.240 and it's now part of Greater London, But in eighteen 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.520 eighties seven it was actually a separate town with a 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.280 lot of major cities. Nowadays, Yeah, they've absorbed the suburbs, 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.320 so it might be more appropriate called these murders the 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.279 Thames Torso murderers, but I don't know. I kind of 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.240 like to London Towardso murders better. What do you guys think, Well, 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.799 I don't really care, stick with it. I mean anything 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.359 that says Torso murders and let's frankly, let's let's you 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.080 know that's standard there on end. Right. Well, so they 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.040 found a body. What they found was a tors of 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.560 a body which was wrapped in a bundle as found 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.440 in the river. I was just gonna ask Joe, I 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:07.960 you what it was wrapped in? No, I don't actually, 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:09.920 I mean some of them they actually said, like that 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.560 one that was like wrapped in black cloth, you know. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.520 But yeah, well, and that's that's why I was asking, 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.680 because suddenly I realized I can't remember what this particular 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.840 one was wrapped in, just cloth of some sort, but 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.880 continue on, sir. Yeah. And then over the next several weeks, 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.640 other body parts kept showing up, and the police just 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.960 kept on collecting them, and eventually they were able to 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.320 piece together on almost complete body. The other things missing 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.599 were the head and the uppard chest, so like the 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:41.120 shoulder area. Yeah, naturally they were not able to determine 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:42.960 the cause of death. I mean, jeez, maybe it was 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:47.280 being like sliced up in Yeah, I don't know. There 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.479 were no actual signs of violence apart from being chopped up. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.960 I'm sorry, chopped a body. There's some signs of violence 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.440 right there. There is kind of that. Yeah, And of 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.800 course the victim was never identified because the head never 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:01.680 turned end up, and of course they didn't have DNA 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.880 or fingerprinting back. Yeah, and I've been soaking in the 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.279 river for a while. That probably didn't help things too much. 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:10.880 I don't know of any attempts to make that were 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:12.920 made to length the body to missing person reports, because 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.200 I don't even know what they had in terms of 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.240 missing person reports in those days in London, because it 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.760 was even that in those days a huge, sprawling city 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.840 with it had been going through a huge period of urbanization. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.400 A lot of people were flooding from the countryside into 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.600 London and a lot of other major European cities at 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.279 that time, and a lot of them were also shipping 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.240 out for other kind of work. Absolutely, so it was 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.720 so somebody advantaged so that it didn't necessarily mean anything. 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.160 I mean great times if you're a serial killer. I 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.360 mean like that's why there are two of them, yeah, 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.480 or three or who knows. So obviously this person was 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.080 never identified, It didn't really go anywhere. It didn't become 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.000 a huge story until a little over a year later 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.320 when the second Torso was discovered. And this happened in 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.240 the White Hall and this happened that the body was discovered, 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.520 or the tour so was discovered or no, excuse me, 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:09.040 the arm was discovered September eleven. You know that they 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.960 ever forget? Yeah right, arm and a shoulder were found 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.680 on the shore of the Thames in central London. This 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.880 is in the Pimblico neighborhood, which I'm sure you will know, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.120 of course. Yeah, for our London, for our our London listeners. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.280 I'm not going to do this every time, but between 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:29.120 Victoria railway station and the Thames west of Vauxhall Bridge, 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.360 there wasn't much to be done with the arms since, 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.880 as I said, already a finger putting in DNA didn't exist. 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.840 I assume they either tossed it or maybe they kept 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:38.400 it on ice for a while. They had to have 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.480 kept it somewhere based on what happened afterwards. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.800 you would think that. I assume they didn't just pitch it. 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.880 A police surgeon named Thomas Bond did take note of it, 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.080 which came in handy about three weeks later when the 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.640 tours so that went with the arms showed up, which 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.080 it did, and this this new tour so that was 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.120 found in the seller. This is a funny part. Well 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.960 some people find a little ironic. Anyway, It was found 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:00.360 in the seller of a new bill thing that was 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.760 being built by the Metropolitan Police Service, but we also 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:09.440 know as Scotland Yard. Yeah. Yeah. They had outgrown their 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.320 old headquarters and so they were constructing a new headquarters 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.880 building on what's called the Victoria Embankment. I don't have 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.160 an address. You can find the coordinates if you guys 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:22.160 are interested. You want the latitude and longitude. Yeah. Yeah. 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.760 The building is still there, apparently, it's called the Norman 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.680 Shaw North Building and Scotland Yard has long since moved out, 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.240 although apparently they have plans to move back into the neighborhood. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.440 They're going to move back into the building next door 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.920 sometime soon. Yeah. Apparently the Yaraties like to move around 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.840 a lot. Yeah, yeah, well, they get I think they 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.400 get tired of people walking into report crimes and stuff 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.440 like that, so every now again they just pack up 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:51.319 and moved. Yeah, I know, so they're they're they're moving around. 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:53.880 But the tourist that was found in a vault in 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.880 the cellar, I'm not sure exactly how much construction have 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:58.520 been done the building as far as I know, it's 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.400 far from complete, but they had at least done the seller, 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.640 and in the seller was a vault and they founded 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:09.040 this torso in that vault on October two. Apparently nobody 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:10.920 had been in the vault for about three days, but 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.800 somebody had been in it three days before, and there 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.040 were no corpses or body parts at that time. Are 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.520 you sure about the Okay? I want to ask, because 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.040 I've seen this too, and I've seen it a couple 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.760 of different ways, is how far the construction had actually 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:29.040 gotten Because it is possible to, you know, make a 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.960 basement and pour the walls and have an area that's 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.320 going to be the vault, but it's still open on 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.079 the top and people could chuck stuff in. So that's 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.800 why I'm asking, do we have any sense of how 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.600 complete it is? Because, like the reading is they chucked 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.800 it over the fence and it went in, and like, 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.360 it makes me wonder, It's hard to say. I don't know. 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.520 I mean, if they if they had actually gone along 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:54.720 and actually roofing over the whole thing. I sort of 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.680 got the impression from reading it that the killer would 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.480 have had to actually enter the vault to leave the 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.200 body there. But I'm not a hunder percent sure about that. Okay. 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:11.000 Other way, it's pretty cheeky. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So our 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.000 body or excuse me, our torso was wrapped in cloth, 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.880 tied up with the string, and our police surgeon Thomas Bond, 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.199 remember him, He remembered the arm of the shoulder and 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.839 realized that the arm of the torso were a match. 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.480 I'm having a hard time picturing the way that these 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.760 torso torsos are cut up. Was it consistent every time 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.880 they were bisected? It sounds like it sounds like it 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.440 wasn't totally consistent. Now, okay, so on this one, it 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.640 was what the cut was like around the shoulder, just 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.840 the shoulder, yeah, I think that, like, yeah, the shoulder 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.520 joint and stuff. Yeah, and then legs, you know, right 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.160 at the hips and then and then maybe chopping at 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:54.400 some of them were like chopped in the quarters for 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.480 this one. Okay, well, and and let's talk about this now, 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.960 because there is stuff out there where people will say 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.920 they will throw around the terms of surgical skill or 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:11.160 knowledge of you know, dissection, like as a butcher. They 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.640 make it out as if every cut was clean, But 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.800 when you read certain sites, they actually kind of clarify 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.920 there are certain joints that you simply can't just cleanly 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.840 cut into. Like let's say, cutting a leg from the hip. 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.160 You kind of gotta get in there to pry the 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.000 hip bone and the is the top on the femur, 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.000 the femur out of the socket. You know, you really 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.000 kind of gotta get in and reef stuff apart. So 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:40.520 it's not all smooth, beautiful cuts. There are times where 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.600 it's like, you know, there's somebody's cutting it and hacking 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.080 it and reefing on it, but they didn't take a 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.640 saw and cut parts of I will say, though, the 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:53.040 example I'll use is like when Booth tries to when 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.120 he because he knows how to do this really well, 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.360 like cuts up a chicken, right, versus when I try 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.440 to cut up a chicken. Right. Yeah, there are joints 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.120 that you got to get in there. But there's a 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.040 talent to getting into that joint versus like me where 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:12.560 I'm just like gett. It's just like hack and hack 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.320 and hack, and you can see it kind of in 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.080 the bones and the rest of everything where it's just 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.760 like get and then you like finally tear it off, 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.760 you know what I mean. Like, so I wonder if 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.120 that's kind of what they're referring to. Is like, even 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:28.280 if it's not like pretty, it's still Yeah, it's like 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:34.480 somebody just took a saw to it through that portion 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.080 of the I'm gonna start cutting out my chickens anyway sauce, 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.520 so okay, but never like a chicken is the same again. 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.040 But I yeah, I guess I just keep having a 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.280 hard time because when you say, you know, like upper chest, 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.360 it's like, well, is that from the waist up? Is 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:53.360 that from the like know what? Yeah? Like that first body, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.440 I'm assuming it's like just under the like from like 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.520 the nipple area. Yeah, I'm assuming, like like from the 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.439 from the top off of the armpits across a straight line. 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.960 That's a weird place to cut up a body. Yeah 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.160 it is, Yeah, because you you know, on either end 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.040 of the rib cage. You would think you would drop 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.720 the arms off and not do that, but apparently, you know, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.760 you cut the head off, keep the clavigal through the 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:20.720 rib cage, all the ribs right, and then sorry, sorry, 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:22.480 I just it helps me to be able to picture 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.800 these things a little bit or as gruesome as it is. 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.360 But unfortunately, but we don't know, unfortunately or fortunately, depending 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.760 on the point of probably fortunately, there are no photographs 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.079 surviving of the body. I know the bodies were photographed 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:42.480 and they're reassembled state. Yeah, grizzly as hell, but yeah, okay, 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.280 so sorry I interrupted you. When we were talking about 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:49.040 the surgeon foul. He remembered that the arm had existed, 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.679 and he remembered that, and so they made that connection. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.079 They figured, okay, we've got a sicko on her hands here. 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:58.720 And then and then an enterprising newspaper reporter whose name 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.560 is lost to the ages apparently, but he got himself 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.280 a dog and starting out at the at at the 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.160 new Police building, sniffed around the neighborhood and they managed 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.520 to find a severed leg, left leg, buried not too 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.480 far from the New Scotland Yard building. Okay, so this 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.199 is weird because this is the only one that we 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.440 know of it was actually buried. Yeah, I know, and so, 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:20.960 and I don't know why that is. You know, it 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.120 might have been if it was like on a construction 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.240 set or something. It just got accidentally buried. Because it 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.920 sounds like our killer was, you know, not asin tossing 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.600 parts as you walk down the streets, kind of like 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.560 you do when you've got the bucket of chicken wings 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.200 and you're going on him and then just throw the 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.240 bone and keep going. Okay, I made a chicken reference, 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.320 and it was appropriate that that's exactly what he's doing. 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:46.240 He's walking down the street. I don't need this leg. Yeah, 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.080 the discreet way to disposed of the body, just like 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.760 nobody's looking to flick, you know, and see people do 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.920 it with gum all the time, cigarettes whatever. Yeah, okay, 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.720 we are not inferring the dead women. Yeah, I'm saying 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.400 it was done yeah, similar to Yeah, so anyway, an 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.800 interesting way to get rid of a body. I would 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:09.640 rather just get rid of in one fell swoop. But 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.080 maybe this guy was a little constrained. I don't know. Okay, So, 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.600 so it's a woman's body. The figure out. Yeah, data Sherman. 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.160 There was an inquest and I'm not sure if this 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.880 was before or after the leg had been found, but 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.280 it was absolutely at the arm of the tour so 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.200 that was found. The conclusion was it wasn't it was 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.440 a woman's body, and that she was around four years old, 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.840 well nourished quote unquote. I don't know what that means. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.040 She was like, you know, obeseir That just meant she 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.280 was in good health general, wasn't I was going to say, 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.920 wasn't the like late eighteen hundreds in London kind of 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:46.400 a time of Yeah, so the fact that she was 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.880 just was eating fine, Yeah, it was had a normal 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:53.720 probably body, Yeah, that could be exactly be it what else? 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.760 She was white, she had dark hair um and the 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.560 body had had been dead about six to eight weeks 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.000 when it was found, so fairly fresh corps but not 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.560 quite as fresh as I won't anyway. The internal organs 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.120 were all in good shape, exceptable left lung, which had pleurrosy, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:16.000 which is just that's an inflammation of the not easily 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:22.640 a life threatening condition. Was is no longer isn't the 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.200 plerosis is the like actual thing you have plerosis? Well, 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.080 it's yeah, but it's a swelling of the lining of 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.200 your lungs, so it causes shortness of breath. But she 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:31.920 only had it one So that's what I'm saying. I 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:33.760 don't think it would have been the cause of her death. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.760 Not probably not. Some people have speculated that that that 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.400 is why she died. I kind of doubt it. I 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.880 don't think the prosy killed her. Yeah, I think some 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:44.880 dude killed her. I was just going to say, though, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.160 that it can it totally happen. I think it can't kill, 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.520 but in this, in this particular instance, I kind of 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:54.200 doubt it. Oh, one last thing, the uterus had been removed, 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.240 so yeah, they determined I don't know how they determined 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.440 this the victim and not been suffocated to drown. I 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.200 suppose that was due to the state of the lung. Yeah. 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.600 No stab wounds, no bullet holes, no other signs of 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.040 violence except of course we're being chopped up, except for 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.360 there was no head and there was no head right, 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.320 All of these are like, there's no violence, but there's 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.480 no headset. She could have been shot between the eyes, 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.080 like you know how her head beat in Yeah, exactly. Um, 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:26.399 what's probably what happened. Um, yeah, who knows. It was 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.000 determined that the right arm had been severed by somebody 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.480 with a knowledge of human anatomy, not just a random 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.399 dude with an axe. There was no word on the 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:36.760 left leg, but I'm not again, I'm not sure that 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:38.840 they had been found at the time of the inquest 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.600 or not. They did remark the police. They said that 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.080 it was sort of a surgical skill kind of thing, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.720 but they said that it was not necessarily a surgeon. 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.679 This might be a case of kind of covering for 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.320 your own said, Oh, it could have been a butcher. Two, 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.920 you know, somebody, somebody skilled in that kind of thing. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:02.359 And this isn't to mean either profession, but I would 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:07.040 assume that being a butcher and being a surgeon are 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.160 pretty similar. I mean, it's just about figuring out how 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:14.720 bodies break down as well. I mean, you know, if 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.920 if we're talking about somebody totally disassembling a body, right, 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.600 a butcher and somebody who's trained to do it on 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:23.720 a human seems like it would be about the same. 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.600 I mean, a butcher trains on how to break down 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.679 bodies of a lot of different kinds of animals and 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.800 joints are kind of the same within like most species. 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.159 So I think it's valid. I don't think it's a 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.760 covering for their own sort of a thing. I think, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.639 in fact, it maybe that a butcher might actually be 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:47.000 even better taking a human body apart than acher gets 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.760 a lot more practice, that's for sure, than a surgeon. 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:55.920 Surgeons don't actually disassemble people. They disassembled with the idea 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.560 is to get them back together. Usually that's the point 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.679 that is the idea usually hopefully. Yeah, an early re 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.680 animators what we're talking about here. Yeah, yeah, let's not yea, 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.160 remind me not to get any surgery dudes. Yeah, So 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.960 that was about it. That was kind of a dead 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.440 end for that body. But yeah, but no problem with 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.719 third bodies showed up. So and this one showed up 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.840 June nine, So this guy is like, it's three bodies 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.680 in about a year, or I could say it could 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.240 be it could have been a lady killer. Yeah that's 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.200 what you're saying. Yeah, okay, good point. This new body 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.320 was found on the south back of the Thames, opposite 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.200 the Tower of London, so I know where that is. Yeah, 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.920 I've been there, We've all been there. Other parts showed 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.720 up later the left leg and thigh turned up the 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.239 same day. Two days later in a different place by 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.600 the way, and then two days later the upper part 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.119 of the torso was found, and the neck and shoulders 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.479 and the liver in three different places. The neck, the shoulder, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.400 and the livers in three places, that's what you're saying places. Yeah. 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.720 Then the day after that, the leg and foot were found, 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.320 and the left leg and foot were found somewhere else, 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.359 so the feet were apparently still attached. And then after 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.520 that the left arm in hand and the lower part 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:12.560 of the and the right thigh showed up in three 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.400 different places. Wow, the whole body, Yeah, I got pretty close. Yeah. 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.480 And then last of all, the right arm and hand 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.600 were found on June Towns. So the course of six days, 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.040 this body was littered up and down the river. Yeah. 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.000 And I don't know if he dumped it all at once, 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.560 you know, That's what I was, just like you actually 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.600 going out every day and distributing some more parts around town. 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.520 You know, I don't know what was what was the 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:42.480 guy with the purple plastic bag that we talked about. Yeah, yeah, Peter, Yeah, 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:43.920 it's kind of like that, you know, going out every 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:48.480 day with the plastic bags right as it was a 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.399 hacked up body, get in a boat, get in the 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:52.800 middle of the river, dump it and slowly it makes 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.120 its way to show. Yeah, it just did too well. 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.280 And they, you know, would have probably traveled at different 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:03.600 rates because they're different ease and sizes. Yeah, it's just 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.000 it's also a question of not just travel, but when 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.280 somebody just happens to stumble upon it and actually notice it. 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:11.240 I mean there was a lot of I mean, I'm 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.120 sure the river was fairly filthy and have a lot 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:14.959 of crap floating in it back in those days. So 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.000 figurative and literal, yeah, you could easily have have a 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.199 have a you know, a severed foot just float right 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.200