WEBVTT - Joe Berlinger

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Burlinger has been making documentaries for almost two decades

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<v Speaker 1>along with his directing partner Bruce Snowsky. Their first film,

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<v Speaker 1>Brother's Keeper, about a murder among brothers who were struggling

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<v Speaker 1>dairy farmers in upstate New York, won the Sundance Film

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<v Speaker 1>Festival in nineteen ninety two. Their most recent film is

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<v Speaker 1>also about murder. Paradise Lost three Purgatory is the third

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<v Speaker 1>film in a series of documentaries about a crime that

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<v Speaker 1>took place eighteen years ago. Three eight year old boys

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<v Speaker 1>were murdered in rural Arkansas, and three teenagers were charged

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<v Speaker 1>with the crime, Damian Eccles, Jason Baldwin, and Jesse miss Kelly.

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<v Speaker 1>The prosecution painted the teens, who wore black, listened to

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<v Speaker 1>heavy metal, and read Stephen King novels as Satan worshippers

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<v Speaker 1>participating in ritualistic killings. When Burlinger went down to investigate,

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<v Speaker 1>he found very little physical evidence. What he did find

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<v Speaker 1>was a modern day witch hunt. At a press conference,

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<v Speaker 1>Inspector Gary Gitchell said the case against the accused teens

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<v Speaker 1>is very strong. That's an excerpt from Burlinger's first film

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<v Speaker 1>about the case. His films brought a lot of attention

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<v Speaker 1>to what was happening in Arkansas. Just last August, after

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen years in prison, Echoes Baldwin and ms Kelly were released.

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<v Speaker 1>This probably wouldn't have happened without Burlinger's films and support

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<v Speaker 1>from celebrities like Johnny Depp, Eddie Vetter and others who

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<v Speaker 1>raised millions to fund appeals regarding DNA evidence. The fact

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<v Speaker 1>that the three were ultimately released surprised no one more

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<v Speaker 1>than Burlinger. When he first went down to work and

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<v Speaker 1>saw he expected to find something very different. We went

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<v Speaker 1>down thinking we were going to be making a film

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<v Speaker 1>about guilty teenagers, because we didn't know at the time

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<v Speaker 1>just how we're responsible. The local press was and covering

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<v Speaker 1>the story, and this was right around the time of

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<v Speaker 1>the Jamie Boulger case in the UK. About a year

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<v Speaker 1>and a half before that, a ten year old kid

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<v Speaker 1>had lured a younger kid out into the railroad tracks

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<v Speaker 1>in Liverpool and and just beat him to death. And

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<v Speaker 1>so we thought there was an emerging trend of youth violence,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we went down thinking we were going to

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<v Speaker 1>make a real life River's Edge and we got down

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<v Speaker 1>there and one plus one was not equaling to you

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<v Speaker 1>know that Um, you know, I can't say immediately because

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<v Speaker 1>it took about three months to negotiate access into their

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<v Speaker 1>holding cells prior to the trial. But once I met

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<v Speaker 1>once Bruce, and I met Damien, and in particular, we

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<v Speaker 1>just felt like this was not you know, out of

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<v Speaker 1>a one out of ten. In the film he says

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<v Speaker 1>it's an eleven. It was like a minus one. And

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<v Speaker 1>you started to base that thinking on conversations with the

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<v Speaker 1>defendants themselves, or evidence and discussions with their attorneys as

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<v Speaker 1>well all of the above. You know, you look at

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<v Speaker 1>Jason Baldwin, a sixteen year old, scrawny kid with you know,

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<v Speaker 1>arms that are couldn't be capable of the crime that

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<v Speaker 1>was committed. He just used credibility. Damian Eccles, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>even though he was his own worst enemy in some ways,

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<v Speaker 1>because he kind of enjoyed the attention and was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a little narcissistic about the whole thing. It just didn't

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<v Speaker 1>make sense, you know, And when you start looking at

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<v Speaker 1>the forensic evidence, I mean, here you have allegedly a

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<v Speaker 1>crime by three teens who are not professional killers, who

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<v Speaker 1>brought according to the prosecutor, three little boys out into

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<v Speaker 1>the woods and slaughtered them to death in this savage beating.

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<v Speaker 1>And yet there was no blood found at the crime scene.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you look at the confession, and the confession

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<v Speaker 1>is riddled with inconsistencies and problems coaching and coaching. Um so,

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<v Speaker 1>within months we knew that something was amiss. I found

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<v Speaker 1>that Eccles came across as a very unsympathetic person at times,

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<v Speaker 1>and as you mentioned the word narcissism, he never seemed

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<v Speaker 1>to really suffer. Were there times that you were convinced

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<v Speaker 1>Ecules really was genuine that he suffered off camera? You

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<v Speaker 1>never really showed him, not that I needed to break

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<v Speaker 1>down a cry. And now that's interesting, you know, because

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<v Speaker 1>some people view echoes that way, and some people view

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<v Speaker 1>echoes very differently, very sympathetically. I mean a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. The amazing thing about this story, I think

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<v Speaker 1>he's ultimately sympathetic be cause he's innocent as a character. No,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think he didn't do himself any favors

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<v Speaker 1>when he took the stand, you know, well, I think

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<v Speaker 1>he kind of enjoyed the attention, and as he explained

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<v Speaker 1>to us, in a subsequent film. You know, he just

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<v Speaker 1>never imagined that he would be convicted for these rumors

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<v Speaker 1>and ghost stories. He just believed that it would be

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<v Speaker 1>made right. I mean, the interesting thing for me is

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<v Speaker 1>just this worldwide explosion that these films created. And it

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<v Speaker 1>was people both famous and not famous, regular people and

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<v Speaker 1>people like Johnny Depp who all said, like, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>that guy could be me. I dressed a little different,

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<v Speaker 1>I acted a little differently the other I was the other,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the right circumstances, I could have been that guy.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think he did evoke a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>sympathetic feelings from people. But the culmination of this long

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<v Speaker 1>two decade is doing which you made three films. These

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<v Speaker 1>men walked out of prison for time served in exchange

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<v Speaker 1>for copying this plea? What was the state of Arkansas

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<v Speaker 1>let them out under what's called an Alfred plea. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a rarely used legal maneuver. It's incredibly bizarre. Uh. It's

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<v Speaker 1>disheartening that this was the resolution. You know, on the

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<v Speaker 1>one hand, of course, we're all delighted these guys are

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<v Speaker 1>out of prison, but not but not exonerate. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>the problem. The Alfred plea is where you profess your innocence,

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<v Speaker 1>but for legal purposes you plead guilty to lesser charges.

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<v Speaker 1>So the charges were reduced from capital murder, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the death penalty or life without parole, to first degree murder.

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<v Speaker 1>And because they had spent eighteen years in prison, they

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<v Speaker 1>were they were sentenced to time served. Also, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>suspended sentence hanging over their heads that if they ever

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<v Speaker 1>violate a crime, they will have to serve more time

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<v Speaker 1>for these murders. Are you planning on a fourth movie?

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<v Speaker 1>You know? We people keep asking that, and you know

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<v Speaker 1>we we we made these three move is as acts

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<v Speaker 1>of advocacy. A fourth movie feels like we would be

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<v Speaker 1>kind of milking it, you know, And I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 1>I want to go down that road. I honestly don't

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<v Speaker 1>agree with you. Really to be the last chapter of

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<v Speaker 1>this is what did wrongful conviction and wrongful incarceration due

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<v Speaker 1>to them? Life for them freezes there as a young

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<v Speaker 1>man and their body keeps aging. But you wonder what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of development they have then you release them out

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<v Speaker 1>into the world. And I mean, god knows. The state

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<v Speaker 1>of Arkansas had the least generous public defender approach towards

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<v Speaker 1>this case. Was their council public defender at first, well,

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<v Speaker 1>some of them were public defenders, and some of them

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to take the case on, but they did not

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<v Speaker 1>get the kind of representation that you would expect. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's in fact, one of the great tragedies. And what

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<v Speaker 1>people should focus on with this story is that it

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<v Speaker 1>has taken eighteen years, millions and millions of dollars provided

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<v Speaker 1>by people like Peter Jackson and Eddie Vetter of Pearl

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<v Speaker 1>jam and Johnny Depp three Natalie Maine's three very relatively

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<v Speaker 1>expensive documentaries from HBO. I mean, there's something wrong with

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<v Speaker 1>our legal system where this is what it takes to

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<v Speaker 1>get somebody out of prison, and why don't they have

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of defense right from the get go? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe there is a four paradise last four if we

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<v Speaker 1>want to exonerate these guys because the Alfred plea, it's

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<v Speaker 1>deeply disturbing. You have three guys who are wrongfully convicted,

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<v Speaker 1>spent their entire adult life up till now in prison

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<v Speaker 1>for a crime they didn't commit, and the State of

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<v Speaker 1>Arkansas is making them plead guilty so that a they

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<v Speaker 1>won't be sued for wrongful convicting, so they're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to get any compensation and be that means the state

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<v Speaker 1>of Arkansas is not looking for the real killers. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>the people of the state of Arkansas should be disgusted.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know just how slowly the wheels of justice

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<v Speaker 1>grind forward the simplest things like this DNA action. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand one, Arkansas passed a DNA statute which

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<v Speaker 1>allows you to go test new evidence, and they argued

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<v Speaker 1>for several years whether they could even do the test,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the state wanted a particular crime lab. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean literally for six years it took to get these

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<v Speaker 1>d n A results out. However, when it came time

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<v Speaker 1>to craft this Alfred play, when they were fearing the

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<v Speaker 1>HBO broadcast and when they were fearing this evidentiary hearing

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<v Speaker 1>that was coming up in December, and literally in six

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<v Speaker 1>or seven days they are two weeks something like that,

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<v Speaker 1>they banged out this this Alfred place. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when it's in their interest, they can make it happen

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<v Speaker 1>pretty damn quickly. Why didn't you abandoned it after the

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<v Speaker 1>first That's a great question. I was both Bruce and

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<v Speaker 1>I were just absolutely tortured at the idea these guys

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<v Speaker 1>were still rotting in prison, and you know, the case was,

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<v Speaker 1>but the movie didn't come out until those guys have

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<v Speaker 1>been in prison already for four years. It just haunted us,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. On the other hand, going back and revisiting

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<v Speaker 1>this is a depressing story. I feel like I lost

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<v Speaker 1>like my fatherly innocence by covering this story. And what

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<v Speaker 1>I mean by that is, you know, my first kid

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<v Speaker 1>was born while we were editing this film, and I

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<v Speaker 1>would be sitting, you know, at the editing bay looking

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<v Speaker 1>at the most horrific autopsy photos and crime scene footage.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I would go home at night after having

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<v Speaker 1>these images like emblazoned on your brain, and I would

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<v Speaker 1>drop the you know, the door of the crib and

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<v Speaker 1>pick up my new infant who was just arrived a

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<v Speaker 1>few months ago, and holding my child and thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>these eight year olds and thinking about the gross autopsy

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<v Speaker 1>footage that I had looked at. I mean, it was

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<v Speaker 1>just an emotionally draining experience making these films, and so

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<v Speaker 1>it was a very considered decision to go back and

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<v Speaker 1>to do it a second time and a third time.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, during the second film, I had my

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<v Speaker 1>second kid. Your life's going on and there's isn't. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it just tortured me. But you know, like every hallmark

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<v Speaker 1>that my child would go through, you know, kindergarten, middle school,

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<v Speaker 1>high school. I think, my god, these guys are still

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<v Speaker 1>rotting in prison. I just felt we had a you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we had a moral obligation to keep telling the story.

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<v Speaker 1>But was there ever a moment where you and your

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<v Speaker 1>principal staff, your your your real Cadrea people you did

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<v Speaker 1>this film with even in your mind, you just raised

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<v Speaker 1>a glass to each other and said, we got these

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<v Speaker 1>guys out of prison. Oh yeah, we we We did

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<v Speaker 1>some pretty hard party. We did some pretty hard partying

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<v Speaker 1>in Toronto, and really felt good about about what you

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<v Speaker 1>must feel amazing though it's luck. You know, we're filmmakers.

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<v Speaker 1>We made films, were paid to make films. We deserve

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<v Speaker 1>some credit. The people who really deserve the credit are

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<v Speaker 1>the tens of thousands of people, both regular and the

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<v Speaker 1>Johnny Depps, who have given us, you know, big sums

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<v Speaker 1>of money or little sums of money, who selflessly have

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<v Speaker 1>advocated for decades for their release. Lorie Davis knew nothing

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<v Speaker 1>about this crime or this case, saw the movie and

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<v Speaker 1>she was living in Brooklyn as an architect, just couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>get it out of her mind. Started writing to Damian,

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<v Speaker 1>went to visit Damian, fell in love, married him, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they've been married for fourteen years. Most of

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<v Speaker 1>that time obviously he's been on death row and she

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<v Speaker 1>has been a tireless advocate for his release, and she's

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<v Speaker 1>a big reason he's to prison. That must be so

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<v Speaker 1>bizarre and I can't imagine. I can't imagine either, because

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<v Speaker 1>they really you know, look, she's a wonderful person. It's

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<v Speaker 1>just one of those bizarre things you could never like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. Script. I'm Alec Baldwin. More from my conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with Joe Burlinger is coming up in a minute. You're

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<v Speaker 1>listening to here's the thing you had said. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>quote I had from you where you said, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>fine line between being a storyteller and being a manipulator.

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<v Speaker 1>We're in this film, were in any of the three

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<v Speaker 1>films involved? Was did you feel that you had did

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of equation? Uh? Um. I believe the

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<v Speaker 1>audience should be treated like a jury. You give them

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<v Speaker 1>the information and your way both sides, and you let

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<v Speaker 1>them come to their own conclusion. But with each passing film,

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<v Speaker 1>we felt like we were moving away from pure storytelling

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<v Speaker 1>and more and more into advocacy, and we certainly wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to get people riled up about this. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure we are manipulating people, but we clearly

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<v Speaker 1>have a point of view that there is a there

0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.040
<v Speaker 1>is a huge injustice that needed to be you know,

0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.640
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting the first film, you know, good of the

0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.480
<v Speaker 1>people who walked away from the original film thought that

0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.959
<v Speaker 1>they were guilty, and we let both sides have their say,

0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.800
<v Speaker 1>and I think there's just been a progression towards, you know,

0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.480
<v Speaker 1>more overt advocacy, which is kind of in conflict with

0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.720
<v Speaker 1>my overall filmmaking philosophy, which is to treat the audience

0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:50.600
<v Speaker 1>member like a jury member and let them make the

0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:54.560
<v Speaker 1>decision about the events they're seeing. Now, where did all

0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.440
<v Speaker 1>your career begin? You you were in advertising Originally, I

0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.320
<v Speaker 1>had a brief stint to the very big any of

0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.199
<v Speaker 1>my career working in advertising. And actually I was a

0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.520
<v Speaker 1>language major in college and spoke fluent in German. But

0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.760
<v Speaker 1>I worked in the Frankfurt, Germany office of Ogilvie and

0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Mayther That's when I got the film bug, you know,

0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.959
<v Speaker 1>because I started producing. I started producing television commercials there,

0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.320
<v Speaker 1>and the first time I walked on a film set

0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 1>and saw cameras and lights and action, I was like, oh,

0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 1>this is kind of cool. And then what happened? And

0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 1>so I came back to New York with Ogilvie and

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:30.400
<v Speaker 1>was on an American Express campaign as a producer, and

0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 1>we hired these guys called the Mazel brothers who didn't

0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.880
<v Speaker 1>give me shelter and great provision, and we hired them

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 1>to do, uh, some television commercials, to do some unscripted

0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:46.040
<v Speaker 1>documentary style TV commercials and David Mays for American Express

0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.559
<v Speaker 1>and what were those commercials? Like, It's actually a campaign

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.400
<v Speaker 1>that I think ended up not airing. It was kind

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.480
<v Speaker 1>of an but now they did a lot of commercials

0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.200
<v Speaker 1>actually that quite good, but document you know, kind of

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.960
<v Speaker 1>documentary style. Anyway, I kind of hit it off with

0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.319
<v Speaker 1>David Mazel's he's the brother who passed away quite a

0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:05.320
<v Speaker 1>few years ago. They were looking for somebody to market

0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 1>their services to Madison Avenue and I was looking to

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:09.680
<v Speaker 1>get into the film business. And now I was a

0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.439
<v Speaker 1>guy who had a couple of years of Madison Avenue

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.960
<v Speaker 1>and so just over lunch we kind of cooked up

0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:16.559
<v Speaker 1>the idea, Okay, let me come work for you. I'll

0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.360
<v Speaker 1>get your more commercial business. And and oh I got

0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 1>them a lot of commercial did that for about five years.

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.240
<v Speaker 1>So I was like, what did you learn from them?

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.720
<v Speaker 1>The act of faith of making a film about real

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 1>life as it's unfolding, which sounds like, well, what's the

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.920
<v Speaker 1>big deal, but you know, I mean the idea of

0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:37.200
<v Speaker 1>capturing human drama in all its ambiguous glory as it

0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.440
<v Speaker 1>unfolds before the camera is first of all an incredible

0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.160
<v Speaker 1>way to make a film, and secondly to have faith.

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 1>And I think we take that cinema verite movement a

0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 1>little bit for for granted today, I think people are

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.280
<v Speaker 1>better actors today than they are were forty years ago.

0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.640
<v Speaker 1>This is where reality shows are are awful because they

0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 1>are not unscripted. It's like it's like the stage predation

0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.720
<v Speaker 1>and natured documentaries. They get these people all wound up

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 1>and then they throw them in the room together. But

0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:08.840
<v Speaker 1>where you can get unvarnished and real verity insights into people,

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.760
<v Speaker 1>it's often only I find where those those steaks are

0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.520
<v Speaker 1>that high, like in a courtroom. Yes, exactly. Uh, you know,

0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 1>it's it's the last Serengetti, you know what I mean, absolutely,

0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's you know, our dirty little secret. No

0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.080
<v Speaker 1>coincidence that many of the films I've worked on are

0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.880
<v Speaker 1>about legal cases. You know. The first big feature doc

0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.040
<v Speaker 1>that Bruce and I did was Brothers Keeper to tell

0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 1>people about Brothers Keeper. Brothers Keeper was the story of

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 1>four brothers who lived in a shack and lived in

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:36.960
<v Speaker 1>a way that people might have lived like two hundred

0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 1>years ago, no running water and a little more eccentric

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 1>than how people might have lived two hundred years ago.

0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Where were they located? Central New York State? And we had,

0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:47.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, read in the New York Times that this

0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.160
<v Speaker 1>guy had been arrested for this murder he allegedly you know,

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 1>suffocated his bed mate brother another you know, these guys

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.600
<v Speaker 1>were in their late sixties, and the state police had

0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.920
<v Speaker 1>gotten a confession out of him. Um. The local community, however,

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 1>felt he was innocent, that he was semiliterate, semi retarded,

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:09.240
<v Speaker 1>and this incredible display, this old fashioned Americana display of support,

0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 1>and sued. So the locally equivalent of Eddie vetteran Natalie

0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Mayne exactly. What's amazing obviously the polarity of it. I'd

0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 1>love you to comment on this, where you've witnessed the

0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>worst of self aggrandizing and self serving human behavior, especially

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 1>from public officials, and then you've seen the best of

0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.600
<v Speaker 1>people coming to the aid of their fellow man. I mean,

0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.560
<v Speaker 1>I use those words exactly. You know, when I was

0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.120
<v Speaker 1>talking about this film up in Toronto where the film premiered,

0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.160
<v Speaker 1>I have seen not just the dichotomy between Brothers Keeper

0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:43.320
<v Speaker 1>and Paradise Loss. Where in Brother's Keeper the town assumed

0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.600
<v Speaker 1>the best of their citizens and came to their defense.

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 1>In Paradise Lost, they assumed the worst and you know

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.280
<v Speaker 1>it became a witch hunt. So when you look at

0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.240
<v Speaker 1>your biography, Brother's Keeper and three versions of Paradise Lost

0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.440
<v Speaker 1>and other documentary films you've done are peppered in between

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot of air disparate kind of work you've done

0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 1>in television with Oprah Winfrey specials and that kind of class.

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.440
<v Speaker 1>For that's for Sunday, We Love, We Love, and Blair,

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.440
<v Speaker 1>which too, that's something we'd like to forget about Blair,

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.240
<v Speaker 1>which too, we'll tell us about Blair, which um, well,

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.240
<v Speaker 1>my whole idea was to make fun of the whole idea.

0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.280
<v Speaker 1>And everyone was excited about the movie. We thought it

0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.760
<v Speaker 1>was funny and scary and and clever, and literally, at

0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 1>the twelfth hour, a new marketing person was hired. They

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, decided that the movie needed to be scarier

0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.160
<v Speaker 1>and to have, you know, more blood. And even though

0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.640
<v Speaker 1>the whole point of the scares and the original blair,

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.280
<v Speaker 1>which was that there were no it was it was

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 1>all psychological, and I kept saying, why do you want

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 1>to show these things? And so they literally recut the

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 1>movie and re shot some pieces, and the movie that

0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.760
<v Speaker 1>was released bears very little resemblance to the movie I shot.

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 1>And that's been my one and only experience making a

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:55.640
<v Speaker 1>Hollywood movie. And I guess you could say that's why

0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 1>I make documentaries. Where do you fire? Where? You know,

0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:00.919
<v Speaker 1>you know what it's I'd love, in other opportunity to

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.400
<v Speaker 1>do a feature at some point, but you know, I'm

0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.440
<v Speaker 1>just used to being the author of my own work,

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.359
<v Speaker 1>being totally in control. You know. Obviously, you have people

0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 1>you report to and people you collaborate with, working for somebody,

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, but you know, I just find the creative

0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:16.560
<v Speaker 1>freedom of what I do, and I mix it up.

0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, I do TV commercials and television, so so

0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.879
<v Speaker 1>that's how you do the one for them, one for me.

0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Kind of switch commercial commercials. Yes, commercially, my bread and

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.359
<v Speaker 1>butter are TV commercials and kind of web content. And

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.920
<v Speaker 1>I always have a few things cooking, um commercials, couple

0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.480
<v Speaker 1>of commercials, a couple of TVs. Get back at a

0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.040
<v Speaker 1>trial for nine years exactly my daughter. You know, my

0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>daughter's going to college next year, so I gotta I

0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.920
<v Speaker 1>gotta start paying for that. So you're like attic a

0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.040
<v Speaker 1>spinch with a camera and a lab set. Oh I

0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.600
<v Speaker 1>like that. Can I use that? No, don't, because then

0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.080
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna have to set up an eight hundred number

0:18:53.119 --> 0:19:01.200
<v Speaker 1>for all your request with people talking with Joe Burlinger

0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:14.280
<v Speaker 1>about his film Paradise Lost three Purgatory. This is Alec

0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing