Speaker 1: Ancestral wisdom and a knowledge transfer that came through the
Speaker 1: ancestral plane in the birth. So I felt accompanied, I
Speaker 1: felt covered, you know, So for me, that's like what
Speaker 1: was the origin? Right, And within twenty minutes of my
Speaker 1: son's birth, I said to everybody in the room, I
Speaker 1: have to I have to help other women through this.
Speaker 1: I have to help because nobody said it would be this.
Speaker 1: I have to help preserve this moment for people, like
Speaker 1: whatever is supposed to be for them, but I have
Speaker 1: to help protect it. And I knew that, and I
Speaker 1: was able to say that lucidly while I was high
Speaker 1: after my son's birth right, which is a total high,
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about more. But I felt this overwhelming
Speaker 1: sense of euphoria when he was born, right, But I
Speaker 1: was able to be lucid enough to say that, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Good Mom's Bad Choices.
Speaker 3: I'm Erica and I'm Mila, and it's Wednesday.
Speaker 4: Happy Wednesday, you guys.
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Speaker 5: Hallelujah, halleen. Two women known to feminine products.
Speaker 2: How are you, my love?
Speaker 4: I am good. I'm very good.
Speaker 5: I'm you know, just chilling. School started. I'm a school
Speaker 5: mom again. What do you guys know? Is my least
Speaker 5: favorite part about being a mom is that I have
Speaker 5: to wake up and take a child's school. Like I'm
Speaker 5: in school and I thought i'd have more time, but
Speaker 5: the summers just keep coming and going.
Speaker 4: So I'm good.
Speaker 5: She's in third grade now, which seems like a very
Speaker 5: big age. Like the homework is more intense. So she's
Speaker 5: like a little bit more like independent and like going
Speaker 5: in her room and on her iPad to like talk
Speaker 5: to her friends, like I'm just I'm on the phone.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't care.
Speaker 3: I had like her iPad went off like a text
Speaker 3: and I was like who.
Speaker 2: It was like multiple texts? Who are you talking to?
Speaker 3: She's like, oh, I'm in a group tech. I'm in
Speaker 3: a group chat with my friends. And I was like
Speaker 3: which ones? And she's like why And I was like why,
Speaker 3: hold up, give me this, give me that cud Do
Speaker 3: you mean why? She's like, Mom, it's just Noah and
Speaker 3: Carter and me and Luna. I'm like, all right, well,
Speaker 3: what are you all talking about. I'm gonna look when
Speaker 3: you're sleeping.
Speaker 4: I know you know what.
Speaker 5: Because Luna's been like sending me tiktoks like you and
Speaker 5: Orlando should do this, And she's like, oh she sent
Speaker 5: me a TikTok.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'm like a little girl.
Speaker 5: And she's like looking on she's like acting all nice
Speaker 5: and it's like how I act at my dad with
Speaker 5: my with my dad's family. And then she's like going
Speaker 5: like going crazy. She's like how I acting out with
Speaker 5: my mom. I was like, so you know you've been
Speaker 5: showing your ass around me.
Speaker 3: Well, there's another TikTok where they say, you know what,
Speaker 3: the abbreviation for m O mom stands for made of money,
Speaker 3: and so she like won't let that go at all,
Speaker 3: And honestly, it's true, because you know, I just got
Speaker 3: back from Europe and I spent every fucking dollar that
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 2: You eat top Ramen for the night.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say two weeks because the euro is
Speaker 3: not the US dollar is fucking trash over there, and
Speaker 3: they charged for every fucking thing, every part I had
Speaker 3: to because I didn't check in early. Because I didn't
Speaker 3: check in before I arrived at the airport, they charged
Speaker 3: me one hundred and fifty dollars. That was more expensive
Speaker 3: than my plane ticket.
Speaker 4: So if you were to just checked in, they said.
Speaker 3: They have a policy you have to check in before.
Speaker 3: And I was like, how would I supposed to know that?
Speaker 3: They said, we sent an email and I was like, what, Yeah,
Speaker 3: So did.
Speaker 4: You enjoy your trip?
Speaker 2: I did?
Speaker 4: It seems lovely.
Speaker 5: It's like photos, your professional photos, and it looks like
Speaker 5: you're cooking classes.
Speaker 4: I know, I was jealous.
Speaker 3: I was I was keeping our tribe at Patreon on
Speaker 3: Patreon updated. I haven't really shared much on social so
Speaker 3: if you're on Patreon, make sure you go check out
Speaker 3: all of the pictures, all of my little journal diary
Speaker 3: entries about my trip in Europe. I went to Berlin,
Speaker 3: I went to Venice. I went to Chink with Da,
Speaker 3: which is like this, it's like the Italian Riviera. I
Speaker 3: went to Florence and then I ended in Paris, and.
Speaker 2: It was a lot.
Speaker 3: I overpacked, so I was lugging like a big ass
Speaker 3: suitcase up train stairs that had no elevators. Well, it
Speaker 3: was me and her, and she doesn't carry shit, so
Speaker 3: it was just me. So we had one big luggage
Speaker 3: with all of our stuff and I had two little
Speaker 3: carry ons. And I did overpack, yes I did, but
Speaker 3: I didn't consider like taking the train and then like
Speaker 3: not being an old country and not having elevators, and
Speaker 3: also people are rude, like they see me with my
Speaker 3: kid and no one's helping me, Like I'm just like struggling.
Speaker 2: Up these stairs.
Speaker 3: It's also like ninety five degrees.
Speaker 5: So basically you're telling me Chilvy is also dead in
Speaker 5: the UK.
Speaker 3: I threw on my shoulder I've been in pain for
Speaker 3: like a week and a half. But other than that,
Speaker 3: other than that, it.
Speaker 2: Was really good. I feel like me and I re reconnected.
Speaker 3: I feel like, I don't know, like are just we
Speaker 3: just I really tried to be as present as I could.
Speaker 3: I really tried to stay off my phone as much
Speaker 3: as I could, and and it was we just like
Speaker 3: went to the park a lot, which I don't really
Speaker 3: do that here a lot, Like she asks me to
Speaker 3: go and I'm like, but for some reason there I was.
Speaker 2: I was all about it.
Speaker 3: So I was like, you know, I really need to
Speaker 3: adopt these practices here and just we talk about this
Speaker 3: all the time. Just being present obviously, and you know,
Speaker 3: when you're a business owner and just doing a thousand
Speaker 3: things that it could feel really impossible. But it was
Speaker 3: really really special, and I am dedicated to doing it
Speaker 3: every year if I can maybe maybe not, maybe I'll
Speaker 3: go to like a cheaper country. I was really like
Speaker 3: stepping into my bougie era this year. And I was
Speaker 3: really adamant about going to Europe because I hadn't been
Speaker 3: in a few years. And we just worked so hard
Speaker 3: and I was like, fuck that I'm going.
Speaker 2: And I did and I'm happy that I did good.
Speaker 5: I know you've inspired me, and I want to go
Speaker 5: on a little mommy daughter trip. I think that would
Speaker 5: be nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think it's important to connect with your kids, especially
Speaker 5: as they get older. It's happening quickly and I realized
Speaker 5: was like, as she's like becoming cooler and like having friends,
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, we don't want to hang out with me.
Speaker 5: So I think to stay connected to your kid, you
Speaker 5: have to kind of And it's it's hard for us
Speaker 5: too because it's like, I don't want to do kids.
Speaker 4: Shit, I'm a grown ask woman.
Speaker 2: But we didn't.
Speaker 3: I mean, we took cooking classes and like I'm you know,
Speaker 3: it wasn't four kids. I mean there were some kids
Speaker 3: in our last one, but it was it was just
Speaker 3: fun to like learn something with her too, And like
Speaker 3: we didn't really go to a lot of museums because
Speaker 3: she was not she's not that age yet. Like I
Speaker 3: tried and she was like I took her to the
Speaker 3: door a museum in Paris.
Speaker 2: I was like, it's fashion, It's gonna be so amazing, Christian.
Speaker 2: I was like reading all the things and she was.
Speaker 4: Like, where do you go to the park?
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 4: But yes, well I'm glad.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you got to take that time for yourself
Speaker 5: and regulate your nervous system and rest and spend time
Speaker 5: with Iri before the school year starts, because you will
Speaker 5: chry as soon as she closes the door when third
Speaker 5: grade starts. Because that's what happened. I was totally fine.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh yeah, okay, bute. It's like a
Speaker 5: button was pushed. I was like tears. I was like,
Speaker 5: what the fuck just happened?
Speaker 3: I was fine, Oh, I know she starts next week,
Speaker 3: so I'm scared.
Speaker 2: She has three binders.
Speaker 3: Apparently she's been telling me for weeks I have three binders.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, what does that mean. It means a
Speaker 3: lot of homework that I'm gonna be happy to do.
Speaker 5: Mister Tyler, shout out to the tutors of the world, Amen,
Speaker 5: because this new Singapore math is some bullshit. And I know,
Speaker 5: I know the moms know that Singapore math. That's what
Speaker 5: it's called. This a new school math, and it's it's
Speaker 5: an atrocity to humanity, particularly moms.
Speaker 2: Agreed.
Speaker 4: Anyway, you want to get into it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get into it.
Speaker 5: Well, ladies and gentlemen, this is the final week of
Speaker 5: bad Ass Birthing August. We've brought a lot of amazing guests.
Speaker 5: But today and this week is a very special week
Speaker 5: because it's also Black Maternal.
Speaker 2: Black breastfeed lass.
Speaker 4: I always fucked this.
Speaker 5: Up Black Breastfeeding Week. And we have a very special guest.
Speaker 5: We have a birth and doula advocate. We have a
Speaker 5: birth and doula expert. We have saying it wrong.
Speaker 3: We have a found the founder of Mama Glow, Laithan Thomas.
Speaker 4: Hi, Hi, welcome to the living room.
Speaker 6: Yes, I can come sit closer.
Speaker 2: I don't know how should I move it.
Speaker 4: I think it's stop.
Speaker 2: It just looks far from her mouth.
Speaker 6: I'm here, Yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 4: Late man.
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on our.
Speaker 3: Thank you for coming on our show having me. We've
Speaker 3: been all month. We've been interviewing different women in the space.
Speaker 3: And I was telling you earlier that my friend Daphne,
Speaker 3: who's also a friend of the show, and I've known
Speaker 3: her for years. Check out Daphne's episode. It's called Return
Speaker 3: of the Soft Woman. She when I got pregnant, she
Speaker 3: told me you.
Speaker 2: Need to talk to her, Lam, you need to talk to.
Speaker 3: Her, and I didn't fucking listen, and I should have
Speaker 3: because I ended up giving birth to a hospital aka
Speaker 3: Cedar Sinai Hospital, which I recently saw has like a
Speaker 3: class actually civil rights saw suit for their you know,
Speaker 3: their poor treatment of black women in birth, and I
Speaker 3: had not. I don't want to say it wasn't like
Speaker 3: the worst experience, but it was not a great experience there.
Speaker 3: So I'm so glad to me I know you now,
Speaker 3: I've met you now. But unfortunately I didn't listen to Daphne.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Daphne.
Speaker 6: We're here now, We're here now, We're here now. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I'm just so intrigued with all all the work
Speaker 2: that you do.
Speaker 3: You have such a powerful business and powerful message and
Speaker 3: you're really changing lives. So how did you get into
Speaker 3: the work that you do? Like, what is the what
Speaker 3: is the conception story?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm from Oakland, California, and when I was about
Speaker 1: four years old, my mother was pregnant with my sister,
Speaker 1: My aunt was pregnant, and then my great aunt all
Speaker 1: at the same time, do within a month of each
Speaker 1: other in March April May, right, and you know at
Speaker 1: that age, and you all know because you're closer to that.
Speaker 4: Age than I am.
Speaker 6: My son's twenty now.
Speaker 1: But at that age you remember the height of a
Speaker 1: four year old. It's kind of like around the belly height, right.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking around and everything I see from the
Speaker 1: advantage tooice is just these beautiful bellies, like you know,
Speaker 1: expanding in front of me. And my mother was like
Speaker 1: really into me being educated. So I had coloring books,
Speaker 1: like Gray's Anatomy coloring book I had. There was a
Speaker 1: show on PBS called My Mom's Having a Baby.
Speaker 6: I was watching that.
Speaker 1: I still remember the jingle for that show. I was
Speaker 1: watching just like all educational programming around like becoming.
Speaker 2: A sibling and.
Speaker 6: So yeah.
Speaker 2: So I was just like really.
Speaker 1: Dialed in and so much so that like the body
Speaker 1: literacy piece, I was very serious felled because I was
Speaker 1: like doing coloring books, right, so I could tell you
Speaker 1: all the anatomy of the pelvis by like age four
Speaker 1: and a half. Wow, and so and so when we
Speaker 1: would be in the grocery store, my mom was like
Speaker 1: so proud of this.
Speaker 6: She was like, Yeah, we're in the store.
Speaker 1: One time and someone's like, oh, your mother has a
Speaker 1: baby in her Tell me. I was like, oh no, no, no,
Speaker 1: my mother has a baby in her universe is going
Speaker 1: to come out of her vagina. So right, so that
Speaker 1: was like the the you know, the the type of
Speaker 1: education she was providing.
Speaker 6: And so fast forward to the birth.
Speaker 1: You know, she had the baby. I was fascinated with
Speaker 1: this process and were you at the did she have
Speaker 1: a home birth? She had the baby in a hospital,
Speaker 1: but the whole like lead up, like I understood everything
Speaker 1: that was going to happen because my mom like explained everything,
Speaker 1: and and then she explained when she came home like
Speaker 1: how it was. And so my cousin and I we
Speaker 1: had like cabbage patch dolls at the time, which like
Speaker 1: total relic for those who weren't borne patch. Cabbage Patch
Speaker 1: dolls were everything, okay, so we would like stuff them
Speaker 1: under our shirts and pretend to deliver each other's babies, Me,
Speaker 1: my cousin. Right, so we had like a whole idea
Speaker 1: of what we thought birth was. And so fast forward.
Speaker 1: Those were like the seeds planted for me, you know
Speaker 1: about like you know, what birth could be, how fascinating
Speaker 1: and incredible the body is and the magic and wisdom
Speaker 1: and mystical experience that happens inside of our bodies that
Speaker 1: see was planted then. And so then fast forward to
Speaker 1: when my son I'm pregnant with my son, who's now
Speaker 1: twenty twenty years ago. Think about what really twenty one
Speaker 1: during the pregnancy, Think about the type of technology we had,
Speaker 1: Like now we're really used to apps and social and
Speaker 1: like none of this existed, by the way, people didn't
Speaker 1: even text twenty.
Speaker 2: Years like your baby is the size of a RAS right.
Speaker 1: All this we had websites like this right, which were
Speaker 1: like very ugly and flexible, hard to navigate, and there
Speaker 1: weren't like there weren't the tools and resources that we
Speaker 1: have today. So I was like navigating this this experience
Speaker 1: literally talking to people like hey, like with the best
Speaker 1: practitioner for this and who's best practitioner for that thing?
Speaker 1: And so I was like writing this down by hand, okay,
Speaker 1: which would all become like my first book, Mama Glow.
Speaker 1: All of these like kind of findings around my pregnancy
Speaker 1: became that book. But in this time, there was not
Speaker 1: the same you could navigate it in the same that
Speaker 1: we do now, And so I had a you know,
Speaker 1: like a sort of like signal go off, like hey,
Speaker 1: like we could make this easier for people.
Speaker 6: Being from California.
Speaker 1: I wanted to do like a very natural I wanted
Speaker 1: to do like a home like environment.
Speaker 6: I didn't want to do a home.
Speaker 1: Birth because where I lived with my son's father, if
Speaker 1: you know anything about New York City, the house was
Speaker 1: way too small. It was not happening, and I didn't
Speaker 1: feel comfortable there. So there was a birth center. He
Speaker 1: was living at too to Too West twenty third Street,
Speaker 1: and there was a birth center on to to Too
Speaker 1: West fourteenth. So the numerology for me was like all
Speaker 1: the way lining up and where he was going to
Speaker 1: be born. It was right next door to a club
Speaker 1: that we used to go to called Nell's that became
Speaker 1: Two Eyes, that became the Darby. So my son thinks
Speaker 1: he was born in a nightclub and he became a DJ.
Speaker 1: So like, all this is money, way he might be right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that was like.
Speaker 2: The whole thing, right.
Speaker 1: So I so I get to deliver in this birth
Speaker 1: center and I had you know, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to get too deep into extented, we'll talk more, but
Speaker 1: like I had this really transformative event and I had,
Speaker 1: you know, an out of body experience with a birth,
Speaker 1: and it was transcendent and at the time, I was like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Like people don't talk about this. They
Speaker 1: talk about like the pain, and they talk about like
Speaker 1: just birth being something that like incapacitates them or makes
Speaker 1: them feel like less less powerful, And for me, I
Speaker 1: felt more empowered. I felt like I stepped into this
Speaker 1: other realm of myself. I felt my ego shed and
Speaker 1: on the other side, this new woman emerges and I
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, this new sense of power, you know,
Speaker 1: And so I was like, oh yeah, Like nobody said
Speaker 1: my ancestors were going to show up to the birth right.
Speaker 1: And so my experience was one where it was so
Speaker 1: transformative in a positive way that I felt compelled right
Speaker 1: to move in the direction I was already doing women's health,
Speaker 1: but really move in direction of service in birth work,
Speaker 1: more specifically around doulah care. And I did not have
Speaker 1: a doula present, but I did have my best friend
Speaker 1: at the time who became my son's godmother, who's now
Speaker 1: a really big obg I n in DC.
Speaker 6: She was there, my son's.
Speaker 4: Father was there.
Speaker 1: I had like my midwife family members. It was like
Speaker 1: a party, and my son's birth it was like too
Speaker 1: many people. So I did not need a doula, but
Speaker 1: I had to. And then I also had, like, you know,
Speaker 1: this this transmission of ancestral wisdom and a knowledge transfer
Speaker 1: that came through the ancestral plane in the birth. So
Speaker 1: I felt accompanied, I felt covered, you know, So for me,
Speaker 1: that's like what was the origin? Right, And within twenty
Speaker 1: minutes of my son's birth, I said to everybody in
Speaker 1: the room, I have to I have to help other
Speaker 1: women through this. I have to help because nobody said
Speaker 1: it would be this.
Speaker 2: I help.
Speaker 1: I have to help preserve this, this this moment for
Speaker 1: people like whatever it is supposed to be for them,
Speaker 1: but I have to help protect it.
Speaker 2: And I knew that, and I.
Speaker 1: Was able to say that lucidly while I was high
Speaker 1: after my son's birth, right, which is.
Speaker 6: A total high, which we'll talk about more.
Speaker 1: But I felt this overwhelming sense of euphoria when he
Speaker 1: was born, right, But I was able to be lucid
Speaker 1: enough to say that, yeah.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 5: You know, I never always referred to birth as a
Speaker 5: rite of passage. It is, and granted my you know,
Speaker 5: I was in a hospital. I didn't want to be
Speaker 5: able to do it at home. It didn't work out
Speaker 5: that way. But I've never heard anyone say, like my
Speaker 5: no one told me my ancestors are going to be present,
Speaker 5: and like that makes so much sense, right, Like we're
Speaker 5: literally opening up the portal. Yeah, so of course we
Speaker 5: would have easier contact with the other side. Yes, but
Speaker 5: we don't even think that way because you know, there's
Speaker 5: always there's all this fear about the pain that we're
Speaker 5: going to So there's all we were just like thinking about, Fuck,
Speaker 5: this is gonna hurt.
Speaker 4: I I be able to get through this? Am I
Speaker 4: gonna make it?
Speaker 5: But it's like you don't really realize like this is
Speaker 5: an opportunity to kind of have those clear downloads and
Speaker 5: have that that that plane of conversation with your ancestors
Speaker 5: and to really be like, YO, help me out, you know.
Speaker 5: But like that's so beautiful even then? Is it because
Speaker 5: you were in like in the health space that it
Speaker 5: even dawned on you to have a birth at a
Speaker 5: birthing center, Because twenty one years ago, I could imagine
Speaker 5: that's not very popular.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I knew I wanted to have and
Speaker 1: out of hospital experience because I'm not a person who
Speaker 1: likes hospitals and so and when I was going for
Speaker 1: my care Prenatalie. I was seeing I went to Columbia
Speaker 1: Presbyterian because I was like, oh, I get I went
Speaker 1: to Columbia. I guess I should go there, you know.
Speaker 1: And it was I was like this care is backwards,
Speaker 1: like they're not. And I had an amazing Muslim midwife
Speaker 1: we called her Umi. She was awesome, but I was like,
Speaker 1: so and she was telling me how stuff was going
Speaker 1: to go down. I was like, this is not my
Speaker 1: this is not my place. And so my son's father
Speaker 1: we were walking across fourteenth. He's like, we should pop
Speaker 1: into this place. And I was like, you think they
Speaker 1: would take our insurance? Like you think He's like, let's
Speaker 1: just go in. And so we went inside and they
Speaker 1: were like, come do a like a basically kind of
Speaker 1: like an orientation kind of and like open house kind
Speaker 1: of thing. So we went to the open house and
Speaker 1: then they just basically share with you how they run
Speaker 1: the birth center. And it's like you have full autonomy,
Speaker 1: you know, and sovereignty.
Speaker 6: So you walk in.
Speaker 1: When you do yours, you take your own weight, you
Speaker 1: do your own you test your urine so you'd like
Speaker 1: pee over a strip and then you basically check to
Speaker 1: see like if there's protein present and things like that,
Speaker 1: you report it on your notes by yourself, and then
Speaker 1: and you take your own weight and record that and
Speaker 1: then you I'm trying to think that for something else
Speaker 1: you would do, but those are the main two things
Speaker 1: you would do. And then the midwife would come into
Speaker 1: the room and see you, and you would be looking
Speaker 1: at your chart. You had access to your chart anytime.
Speaker 1: I could like be in the world and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to see what's in my chart, and I
Speaker 1: could walk in there, go behind the console, grab my.
Speaker 2: Chart, read it.
Speaker 1: They gave you a full copy of all your medical
Speaker 1: records as soon as you had your baby as well,
Speaker 1: so it was like it wasn't no, like it's like,
Speaker 1: it's my information. Why is it taking me three weeks
Speaker 1: to get like medical records?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: So it was just like full openness and transparency. They
Speaker 1: make you do twenty one hours of education before you
Speaker 1: deliver there so that you actually are not in a
Speaker 1: space of being afraid, right, So, because if you don't
Speaker 1: have the education or you don't have the support, then
Speaker 1: you don't realize that, Yeah, birth is an opportunity to
Speaker 1: hold hands with God, to dance, right, and to be
Speaker 1: in a cosmic dance, to be in the space of
Speaker 1: where your body actually creates all of the medicine that
Speaker 1: you need right to get you through. And as you said,
Speaker 1: birthing rights really allow us the opportunity to separate from
Speaker 1: our normal station in life, right, to pull away, right
Speaker 1: to prepare to actually undergo transformation. Right, So move from
Speaker 1: the preliminal space to the liminal and then postliminal when
Speaker 1: we come on.
Speaker 6: The other side.
Speaker 1: So you literally do go through an arc that is
Speaker 1: about progression and growth and also transformation. It is like
Speaker 1: how we see any life cycle. Like butterflies too, right.
Speaker 1: You see how they start as caterpillars, right, and then
Speaker 1: one day they begin to meditate on what it would
Speaker 1: be to become and they stop eating and they spin
Speaker 1: a chrysalis and they stay there and they literally dissolve
Speaker 1: right symbolically but also also physically right, physically and symbolically
Speaker 1: resolve a dissolve, and then something else is spun inside right,
Speaker 1: and something else is created, and then something else emerges. Right,
Speaker 1: And so they move from that from one plane to
Speaker 1: the next. And if you see where they were when
Speaker 1: they started, it's nothing like they were on the other side.
Speaker 1: It's like they have something else, It's not just wings.
Speaker 1: When they emerge, they have something else too, And so
Speaker 1: same for us when we emerge from this person who
Speaker 1: is moving through their regular station in life and then
Speaker 1: feels now the calling to birth. It's time, right, And
Speaker 1: it's really the mother and the baby's spirit that decides
Speaker 1: when it's time to be born, right, And so then
Speaker 1: you feel this overcoming you. You feel that it's time,
Speaker 1: so you start to move out. So people do things
Speaker 1: like take maternity leave, or they start cleaning. We see
Speaker 1: things like like the nest thing, right, you start cleaning
Speaker 1: everything like crazy and right right, that is the body
Speaker 1: preparing to separate, right, preparing to separate. And then because
Speaker 1: you can't relax if things, if you don't feel like
Speaker 1: everything's in place right, So then you can separate and
Speaker 1: you can actually go into this spiritual plane where all
Speaker 1: of that work is happening, where you dissolve an ego
Speaker 1: and this new version of yourself is ready to emerge
Speaker 1: and carry you to the other side. But while you're here,
Speaker 1: right in the liminal space, you have an opportunity to
Speaker 1: access healing, to access wisdom, to touch and reach back
Speaker 1: and grab things that you need to carry to the
Speaker 1: other side, right, which we call sankofa reaching back right.
Speaker 1: And so we so we grab those things we need
Speaker 1: and we carry them to the other side.
Speaker 6: And and with the us.
Speaker 1: We're like we're like covered, right, we have actual like caretakers,
Speaker 1: we have like our ancestors who carry us to the
Speaker 1: other side. And what is happening that disrupts this process
Speaker 1: is our current medical model, our current birthing practices and
Speaker 1: birthing culture in the West and particularly in the United States,
Speaker 1: disrupts all of the systems that actually support us taking
Speaker 1: having birthing rights right. And so so for many people,
Speaker 1: instead of feeling safety and dignity and belonging and transcendence
Speaker 1: and self discovery and opening and pleasure and all that's
Speaker 1: available to us that's actually supposed to be available to us,
Speaker 1: we feel afraid. We feel you know, indignity, we suffer,
Speaker 1: we feel unheard, we feel like you know, we feel pain.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 1: And so what I t and help people to connect
Speaker 1: to is that living memory, right, like that this is
Speaker 1: actually in ourselves. And this is also we know how
Speaker 1: to birth, but also we know how to caretake right
Speaker 1: as a community, we know how to take care of
Speaker 1: each other. If you're birthing, I know how to show up,
Speaker 1: just like you know how. We all know how to
Speaker 1: show up. And it's our right, it's our birthright to
Speaker 1: have that support and to feel that safety net. And
Speaker 1: what is being denied us it's not. You know, we're
Speaker 1: in a maternal health crisis in this country. But what
Speaker 1: I hate that we focus on so much is like
Speaker 1: we want people like we want black women to survive.
Speaker 1: I want black women to fucking thrive through birthing, not
Speaker 1: I want them to feel like when they come out
Speaker 1: like stomping their feet and shouting and laughing and feeling
Speaker 1: whole and not feeling like something was taken away, which
Speaker 1: so many of us feel. And we can't get that.
Speaker 1: That is, you only have one birthday. The rest are anniversaries.
Speaker 1: So we have to get birth right. And we deserve
Speaker 1: to birth in sanctity and to feel safety and dignity
Speaker 1: and to be seen in our power as we become mothers.
Speaker 1: We deserve that we are owed that. And so what
Speaker 1: is happening right now is not just horrifying because it
Speaker 1: means that many of us don't make it out alive,
Speaker 1: but also those of us who survive, look at what
Speaker 1: it does because how you birth also you carry that
Speaker 1: experience into how you live. And so until we can
Speaker 1: unpack the pain, you know of what we carry from
Speaker 1: the morning of an experience that was denied us or
Speaker 1: that we didn't have, is that many of us don't
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to cry.
Speaker 4: I know, I.
Speaker 3: Feel really emotional because I'm like, wow, I really did
Speaker 3: fuck up.
Speaker 4: I should have called you.
Speaker 3: I didn't have that experience, and I had everything opposite
Speaker 3: of that, and I did feel robbed, and I still
Speaker 3: feel obviously hurt by my experience, and that is not
Speaker 3: I did not have that transformational experience. I wanted that
Speaker 3: like my Intuitively I knew that that's what I was
Speaker 3: capable of, but I was denied that. I was told
Speaker 3: I was wrong over and over again. And then like,
Speaker 3: you know, it's the same story. Like people listening right now,
Speaker 3: you've been through this exact story, maybe even worse than me,
Speaker 3: and hearing like the power and the beauty of what
Speaker 3: birth is like. I don't know if I'll ever experience
Speaker 3: that again. I don't know if I'm going to have
Speaker 3: another child again.
Speaker 2: And you know I.
Speaker 4: Am.
Speaker 3: I love my baby and I love. I'm happy that
Speaker 3: she's healthy. But that's really what they say, is like,
Speaker 3: as long as they're healthy, that's all that matters. It's
Speaker 3: just gaslighting, by the way, and that's and that's literally
Speaker 3: what I was fed over and over again when ever
Speaker 3: I shared what my wants were and my needs were,
Speaker 3: and that I was selfish and.
Speaker 5: That all you want is a healthy baby. All we
Speaker 5: want out of this is a healthy baby.
Speaker 1: That's gaslighting because if I say to you, well, you
Speaker 1: know at least this, it's like, but what about what
Speaker 1: I feel? What about how it was made to feel?
Speaker 1: It's okay, obviously we're happy a baby is safe, but
Speaker 1: how you were made to feel in the process matters,
Speaker 1: because why tears are coming now is because how you
Speaker 1: were made to feel in the process, that you were
Speaker 1: not seen right, that you were not held in your vulnerability.
Speaker 1: And so if someone had honored you, imagine if you
Speaker 1: had the outcome that you had.
Speaker 6: But along the.
Speaker 1: Way, people checked in and looked in your eyes and
Speaker 1: laid on hands and asked if you were okay, and
Speaker 1: what could we do to make it more comfortable? And
Speaker 1: are you okay now? And is everything better? And how
Speaker 1: are you feeling and is this enough? And like just
Speaker 1: little things is a temperature?
Speaker 6: Okay? Would you like a blanket? Can I just wipe
Speaker 6: your tears?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 6: Can I give you some water? Do you want tea?
Speaker 1: Like if they were just kind, even if the outcome right,
Speaker 1: if you weren't going to change the outcome, if the
Speaker 1: things that happened along the way, if the way you
Speaker 1: were treated along the way right, because how what you're
Speaker 1: recalling is treatment right. And so we internalize how we're
Speaker 1: made to feel, which is why so many of us,
Speaker 1: if we think about like our childhoods and things that
Speaker 1: we're resolving as adults or trying to resolve as adults,
Speaker 1: it was how somebody made us feel. Somebody says something
Speaker 1: and it sat inside and now we're working it out
Speaker 1: as adults.
Speaker 4: Right, So it's like.
Speaker 1: That the feeling and what I seek to protect is
Speaker 1: actually your memory, like the memory of the birth experience.
Speaker 1: To me is what a doula's job is is to
Speaker 1: protect the memory so that when you tell the story,
Speaker 1: I am concerned with how you would tell the story,
Speaker 1: Like that's actually my job, not just obviously to make
Speaker 1: sure everything goes well. And you know, and doula for
Speaker 1: those who want to know, because I know a lot
Speaker 1: of you have been listening all month about birth, badass birthing,
Speaker 1: so I'm sure you're aware. But doulah's are non clinical
Speaker 1: care providers providing emotional support and physical support and education
Speaker 1: and advocacy and partner support if you're a partner present.
Speaker 1: But also how I see it is that we are
Speaker 1: also keepers of your birth memory, and so we need
Speaker 1: to be thinking about how to design a space and
Speaker 1: a safety net and a container for you to have
Speaker 1: a transcendent experience.
Speaker 2: But also.
Speaker 1: And also we are there to think through how you
Speaker 1: will come on to the other side and talk about
Speaker 1: this experience, how you will share your birth story. I'm
Speaker 1: concerned with that, and so for me, I would be thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, in working with you all, like okay, talking
Speaker 1: through your desires and wishes and also your fears and
Speaker 1: all these things, and designing a space right and tools
Speaker 1: that you could be using to help carry you through
Speaker 1: a process. And then even if we have an experience,
Speaker 1: it is not go as planned. Also, processing the birth
Speaker 1: experience is very important, right Coming on the other side
Speaker 1: and actually having adequate space to emotionally process is so
Speaker 1: key and that's also denied us because like you said,
Speaker 1: it's well, at least baby is healthy. So let's move on,
Speaker 1: pump up the breast milk and right, like it's just
Speaker 1: like's keep on moving, get out, Yeah, let's keep it
Speaker 1: moving instead of wait a minute, a mother was just born. Right,
Speaker 1: And so if we think about how we treat babies,
Speaker 1: we don't leave them alone. We pick them up, we're
Speaker 1: feeding them every to hour, changing diapers. Like somebody's always
Speaker 1: with an infant. They are never left alone. Somebody should
Speaker 1: always be with you in idiot after care. You should
Speaker 1: be not just observed by a physician. You need to
Speaker 1: be with community, and you need to be in a
Speaker 1: safe space where you can process and eat and rest
Speaker 1: and reflect and right and move through the postpartum rights. Right,
Speaker 1: that's also being denied. So because we have one in
Speaker 1: four women going back to work ten days after having
Speaker 1: a baby in this country, we not get in that space, right,
Speaker 1: And then we have people who had babies in a
Speaker 1: pandemic isolated, right, we didn't get that space. So it's
Speaker 1: very important what you're surfacing now because maybe you weren't
Speaker 1: able to do it then, right, And it's important that
Speaker 1: you're making space for these conversations because it's healing community.
Speaker 1: It's healing people who are listening, but it's also like
Speaker 1: a gift for you, right to like surface up the
Speaker 1: emotions and the.
Speaker 6: Yeah and the and.
Speaker 1: The uh, the raw you know feelings right that maybe
Speaker 1: the right people weren't there to tend to, but we're
Speaker 1: in community now and so we can hold you.
Speaker 4: Thank you, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 5: I'm so grateful for your your perspective, like just you
Speaker 5: sharing in that way, because with like, while you were sharing,
Speaker 5: I'm just like, duh, you know, Like birth is a
Speaker 5: spiritual experience, absolutely, and we've obviously medicalized it so much
Speaker 5: that I think unfortunately it's like the gas lighting is
Speaker 5: so severe, especially in the United States, is that it begins.
Speaker 5: It's the disempowerment from pregnancy to birth is really designed
Speaker 5: to make women shut the fuck up. It's really designed
Speaker 5: for you not to even think that it's supposed to
Speaker 5: be that. It's designed so that you don't understand your
Speaker 5: power when you leave, because it's easier to control a
Speaker 5: woman who's not empowered. And like I didn't even think
Speaker 5: about that, Like when you're discussing how you can go
Speaker 5: into your birthing center and grab your chart and see
Speaker 5: what the fuck they're writing about you. I'm thinking, what
Speaker 5: the fuck did they write on that goddamn folder that
Speaker 5: I've never seen?
Speaker 4: Why are you holding? Can you turn that bitch around?
Speaker 4: What is on that paper?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: But it's like we are so accustomed to a certain
Speaker 5: type of treatment.
Speaker 4: We're so accustomed to line trust well yeah, and we're.
Speaker 5: So accustomed to just saying okay, oh well, oh, only
Speaker 5: my baby's supposed to be healthy. Like it's like the
Speaker 5: beginning of as soon as you give birth, like, oh
Speaker 5: where's your baby at? Like, fuck, you don't mind the
Speaker 5: fact that I ushered the baby through. But it's like
Speaker 5: the the the grooming of your disconnection with yourself. Yes,
Speaker 5: and it begins so early, and they're like, we know better,
Speaker 5: you don't. It's like a training and forgetting your intuition.
Speaker 5: And the craziest part is is like there's nothing, there's
Speaker 5: no role needing of your intuition and your power more
Speaker 5: than being a mother. So when you begin the journey
Speaker 5: that way, it makes you feel insecure in becoming a mother,
Speaker 5: and it makes you be like, maybe stay in a
Speaker 5: relationship that doesn't serve you anymore.
Speaker 4: Because you're like, okay, because you've already.
Speaker 5: Just laid down and let it, let it happen to you,
Speaker 5: you know. And it's just like, even I'm thinking about you,
Speaker 5: and you're like, Adula is a shaman. You are spiritually
Speaker 5: ushering me through a spiritual experience. And it's like, just
Speaker 5: like people travel to Peru to go get go do ayahuasca.
Speaker 4: Or whatever they're doing over there. You know.
Speaker 5: You You're like, I want to be with someone who
Speaker 5: knows what they're doing, because this is a spiritual experience
Speaker 5: that I'm you know, investing in because I'm trying to
Speaker 5: get a certain result. But birth is that spiritual experience,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. The Dula is that shaman,
Speaker 5: and like your birthplace is the altar.
Speaker 1: But I want to add to that, you are the shaman.
Speaker 1: You are the shamans. You are the shaman. Let that
Speaker 1: sit in there for a second. You are the shaman.
Speaker 1: Thank you Latham. You guys, there is so much more
Speaker 1: to this episode. If you want to hear the rest
Speaker 1: of this episode, it's about forty five minutes longer.
Speaker 2: Head over to Patreon.
Speaker 7: Now, you do not want to miss all the gems,
Speaker 7: all of the knowledge drop by Latham and just more sharing,
Speaker 7: more honesty and if you feel like this episode resonates
Speaker 7: with you now, I want to encourage you to please
Speaker 7: please go to Patreon right now and listen to the
Speaker 7: rest of this episode. Patreon dot com backslash Good Moms,
Speaker 7: Bad Choices. The link is in this episode description. Thank you,
Speaker 7: Thank you Latham for this true, true reminder of our power.
Speaker 7: So let's wrap up this episode from here.
Speaker 2: Urgency and efficiency.
Speaker 8: Urgency Inefficiency, Yeah, yeah, yes, well Latham, can you thank
Speaker 8: you so much for coming on our show and taking
Speaker 8: the time.
Speaker 2: To chat with us. Can you tell our tribe where
Speaker 2: they can find you?
Speaker 1: Yes, y'all just come to if you're in the social land,
Speaker 1: I'm on Instagram at Glo Maven It's g l O
Speaker 1: W M A V E N. And then at Mama
Speaker 1: Glow is on Instagram. You can go to Momaglow dot com.
Speaker 1: If you're interested in doula, like if you want to
Speaker 1: become a doula, if you want to find a doula,
Speaker 1: if you want to advance your careers doula, you can
Speaker 1: come there. And we also, I do want to say
Speaker 1: this which is important for people nationwide. We provide dual services,
Speaker 1: but also for people who cannot afford We do have
Speaker 1: many programs, especially for women of color, black birthing people specifically,
Speaker 1: we have programs that have no income requirement. Just if
Speaker 1: you would like a doula and you just want somebody
Speaker 1: to help you through this process, if you're wherever you're located.
Speaker 1: But we we have like bigger programs in like cities
Speaker 1: like New York, LA, Miami, ME, Atlanta, and New Orleans
Speaker 1: in d C. But we service everywhere. So reach out
Speaker 1: to us if you are looking for a doula and
Speaker 1: you need that support and that handholding, because we want
Speaker 1: to make sure that everybody has that access. And then
Speaker 1: if you are in school, okay, if you want to
Speaker 1: do dula school and you've like moved on in life
Speaker 1: and you're like in your next iteration of your I
Speaker 1: don't know next career path that you want to potentially
Speaker 1: be a doula. We have public based programs and if
Speaker 1: you're in the university, you can take my course at Brown.
Speaker 6: In the spring.
Speaker 1: I just taught it last spring, but you could you
Speaker 1: could join me there at around University where I'm you're
Speaker 1: professor of the practice is Gender and sexuality studies.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Professor Thomas here to serve you.
Speaker 1: So love to see y'all if you're if you're up
Speaker 1: at if you're up at Brown, I'll see you in
Speaker 1: the springtime. But otherwise catch me on these inn streets.
Speaker 3: And want to make sure to link all of Latham's
Speaker 3: information in this episode description. Make sure you come check
Speaker 3: us out October twenty First, we have our live show
Speaker 3: in La y'all, Confessions of a Good Mom. So come
Speaker 3: hang out with your girls, come turn up, you need
Speaker 3: that night off, Drop them babies off, drop babies, come
Speaker 3: with your girls, come with your man, come with your wife, whatever.
Speaker 3: And we're going to be at the Teagram Ballroom. And uh,
Speaker 3: we have a few spots left for our retreat next year,
Speaker 3: next summer in Costa Rica, July twenty twenty twoenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: So you have plenty plenty of time to invest in
Speaker 3: this retreat.
Speaker 4: It's invest in your rest.
Speaker 3: Invest in your rest right you invest in your disconnection
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Speaker 2: It is a.
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Speaker 4: We got good Moms for thirty percent.
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Speaker 2: Girl.
Speaker 5: Shout out to Valley Girl Vintage who supplied these vintage
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Speaker 9: Bye, La Suspo, Ellen J.
Speaker 5: Solo, BAA Recorder, Lalos and Elas pashm