1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: On the Earth at night in moonlight, I can always 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: imagine the yellow of sunshine, the scarlet of invisible blossoms. 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: But here, when the searchlight was off, yellow and orange 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: and red were unthinkable. The blue, which filled all space 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: admitted no thought of other colors. The return trip was 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: made in forty three minutes, an average of one foot 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: every two seconds. Twice during the ascent I was aware 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: of one or more indefinite large bodies moving about at 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: a distance. On the way down, I had accredited them 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: to an over excited imagination, but after having the experience 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: repeated on several deep dives, I am sure that I 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: did see shadowy shapes of large and very real living creatures. 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: What they were I can only guess, and live in 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: hopes of seeing them closer on some future descent. What 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: this great creature was I cannot say. A first and 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: most reasonable guests would be a small whale or blackfish. 17 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: We know that whales have a special chemical justment of 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: the blood which makes it possible for them to dive 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: a mile or more and come up without getting the bends. 20 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: So this paltry depth of two thousand, four hundred and 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: fifty feet would be nothing for any similarly equipped cetacean, 22 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: or less likely, it may have been a whale shark, 23 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: which is known to reach a length of forty feet. 24 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: Whatever it was, it appeared and vanished so unexpectedly and 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: showed so dimly that it was quite unidentifiable except as 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: a large living creature. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your 27 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: Mind from How Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to 28 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert Lamb, 29 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: and I'm jere McCormick. And Robert. What were those readings from? Uh? 30 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: Those were the words of William Beebe in his biography 31 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: Half Mile Down, Half Mile Down. William Beebe was an 32 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: American naturalist who lived from eighteen seventy seven to nineteen 33 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: sixty two. And he was a fabulous writer. He was. Yes, 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: we were talking about this a little bit before we 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: went on. Area we have we have I guess two 36 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: major areas to look to his biography Half Mile Down, 37 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: which was certainly aimed at more of a general public audience, 38 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: but even in his writings to a scientific audience. I 39 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: admire the sort of directness and clarity of his writing. 40 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: I was looking at a report of his from his 41 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: underwater expeditions that he delivered in proceedings of the National 42 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: Academy of Sciences in the nineteen thirties, and it's wonderfully 43 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: written for a scientific paper. Yeah, I was. I was 44 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: reading so many of these accounts whilst listening to some 45 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 1: ambient electronic music, and it really I was getting chill 46 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: bumps at times when he's talking about descending into the 47 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: dark and seeing these various bioluminescent creatures come into his 48 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: line of vision, creatures that had had never been seen before, 49 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: and in some cases as well discussed creatures that have 50 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: not been seen or captured since. Now that is spooky. 51 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: So Robert, tell me, what does the main thing about 52 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: William BB's career we're gonna be focusing on today, Well, 53 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about the bathosphere. The bathosphere which 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: is a Greek for deep sphere, which was the which 55 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: this was these basically the submersible deep ball, the deep 56 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: ball that that he used on the just groundbreaking trips 57 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: into the deep because prior to this, uh, this was 58 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties. Prior to this, subs could only 59 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: get down about three hundred and eighty three feet or 60 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen meters or so, and uh An armored 61 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: dive suits were only good for about five twenty five 62 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: ft or a hundred sixty But the Bathosphere reached an 63 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: astonishing three thousand and twenty eight feet or nine two points. 64 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: That record was set in nineteen thirty four, and it 65 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: remained the record till nineteen forty nine. And that record 66 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: was set by William Beebe and his collaborator Otis Barton, 67 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: who together did many dives in the steel Ball, going 68 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: deep into the depths off Bermuda and in starting in 69 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty. So we'll tell the story of the Bathosphere 70 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: more as we go on, But I guess first we 71 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: should talk about why why are we doing the Bathosphere today? 72 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: How did this come up? Well? I mean, on one hand, 73 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: it's it's a perfect topic because it deals with the 74 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: ocean and the deep mysteries of the ocean, which we 75 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: come back around to again and again on stuff to 76 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: blow your mind. I've been working on a lot lately, 77 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: A lot, yeah, a lot, like and part of that 78 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: is due to I do have a side project I've 79 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: been working on here at work that does concern deep 80 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: sea themes. Also, I've recently finished reading Peter watts novel Starfish, 81 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: which is a wonderful sort of cyberpunk sci fi novel 82 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: from several years back that takes takes place in the 83 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: deep ocean. Peter Watts the author of blind Side. Yes, 84 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: but he wrote Starfish many years before. Correct. Yeah, this 85 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: was his first big splash. You could say uh and 86 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: then uh and then also Joe, You and I recently 87 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: attended the exhibit Unseen Ocean at the American Museum of 88 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: Natural History in New York City, which is running March twelfth, 89 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, through January six, two thousand and nineteen. 90 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: This was a really cool special exhibit. I really liked it, 91 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: and it got into a thing that's really hard to 92 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: explain in a in an interesting way, but it did it. 93 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: It got into the character of plankton, like making you 94 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: feel that like plankton has personality. There are different types 95 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: of plankton, and those types matter and they're interesting, Like 96 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: there are even these tiny zeno moreph some plankton. Yes, 97 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: it's easy to I feel like we we often have 98 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: this sort of science biology textbook approach to plankton, where 99 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: they are a little more than a little side note 100 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: at the beginning, and it's just like, these are these 101 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: are small creatures, don't worry about them. Larger or more 102 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: interesting creatures eat them. But of course they're they're extremely 103 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: vital and uh. And when you start keying in on 104 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: individual plankton specimens, there is this rich diversity. Uh, it's 105 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: on on par with anything you would find in other 106 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: regions of the animal kingdom. I mean, in a very 107 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: real way. They're sort of the ground floor of the 108 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: entire biosphere. And so you do find not only just 109 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: sort of interesting but also forgettable preycare creatures. You find 110 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: fascinating predators and parasites. But another great thing about this 111 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: exhibit is that it tells the story of people who 112 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: have tried to illuminate the depths of the ocean. I mean, 113 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: we we see nature documentaries showing us footage of what 114 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: happens under the sea. And because you've seen that footage, 115 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: now you might have this sense like, Okay, we finally 116 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: figured out what the oceans are, like, we know what's 117 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: down there. It's you know, it's it's finally conquered territory. 118 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: And in many ways it is it has been and 119 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: still remains the most mysterious thing about planet Earth. It 120 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: is not conquered territory. There's so much we haven't seen, 121 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: and we don't know about the deep oceans. Yeah, and 122 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: and you know that one of the interesting things, one 123 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: of the one of the reasons we're talking about William 124 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: Beebe here today is that when you think about pioneers 125 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: in deep sea exploration, unless this is a topic that 126 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: you've read extensively about before or whatnot, and some of 127 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: the key names that come to mind are probably Jacques Cousteau, right, 128 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: And indeed, Jacques Custo did a lot uh in the 129 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: area of exploring our season, popularizing our understanding of the seas. 130 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,559 Speaker 1: He's one of those figures that I think many people 131 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: of our generation actually know more directly from parody of 132 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: him than they know from him himself. Well maybe for 133 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: for today's like younger generations, but but he had a 134 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: long running television series narrated by Rod Serling. Oh yeah, well, 135 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: I just mean that, I know, I grew up not 136 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: really knowing anything about Jacque Custo himself, but I saw 137 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: countless cartoon and puppet French accent, you know, underwater explorer 138 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: type characters that were I don't mean like they were 139 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: attacking Jacques Custo, were making fun of him, but I 140 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: don't know. He seemed like a very parodiable character in 141 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: American culture, right. And of course today we have James Cameron, 142 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: who who's whose contribution to deep see exploration is a 143 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: is is real. Um. But but but as as far 144 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: as William Beebe goes in the bathisphere, like, this is 145 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: a story that I feel isn't as celebrated in pop culture. 146 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: It's it's it's certainly remembered in the in the history 147 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: of marine biology and our exploration of the seas. I mean, 148 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: it's not it's not something that's forgotten. Before we did 149 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: this exhibit, I knew pretty much nothing about this. Yeah, yeah, 150 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: But I think where I started really discovering it was 151 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: was in reading Starfish, in which Peter Watts makes several 152 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: mentions of BB and his contributions and his sightings not 153 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: just a quick note. This is going to be a 154 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: two parter. We started recording it and we were just 155 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: going way too long. So we went ahead and made 156 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: the decision let's cut it into UH and UH and 157 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: spread it out over the course of a week instead 158 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: of draping like a nearly two hour episode right in 159 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: your lap. Well, I mean there's a lot of deep 160 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: sea out there, right, that's right. I can't blame us 161 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: for talking forever on that and we're only scratching the 162 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: surface on it. Well, maybe the best understand Baby's contributions. 163 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: It helps to turn our eyes to the past and 164 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: to look at what humanities knowledge of the deepest parts 165 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: of the ocean, or even not the deepest, even the 166 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: deeper parts of the ocean was like before the Bathmosphere expedition, 167 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: And so what we knew and what the process of 168 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: exploring the deep sea was like. So, Robert, will you 169 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: come along with me to the age of sea monsters? Yes, yes, 170 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: here they'd be dragons. So, given how little we know 171 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: about the deep ocean, just think about how mysterious the 172 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: depths were before just about a hundred years ago, or 173 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: in even earlier times when less was known about biology 174 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: in general, that you could extrapolate to the deep ocean, 175 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: when stories of sea monsters, the size of whole islands 176 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: rising out the out of the deep was really not 177 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: out of the realm of possibility. That's something I'd like 178 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: to emphasize. It was not just fanciful to imagine back then, 179 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: you had no reason necessarily to doubt stories of sea monsters, right, yeah, 180 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: I mean because ultimately, what did we know of the 181 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: of the depths or even the greater expanses of the sea. 182 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: We did not know about whole continents out there, So uh, 183 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: it would seem entirely possible that you would have giant 184 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: sea creatures. And in fact, we saw giant sea creatures 185 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,479 Speaker 1: in the forms of of spouting whales and various carcasses 186 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: that occasionally drift up to shore exactly right. So most 187 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: of the time in human history was a time when 188 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: people could not look beneath the ocean. They didn't they 189 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: didn't really have any idea other than what sailors might 190 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: have said they saw coming up to the surface every 191 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: now and then. But that was just a peak. That 192 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: was just what came up to the surface. I mean, 193 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: what's deep down there? Who the heck knows. So one 194 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: example of the kinds of beliefs it used to be 195 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: so plausible about the creatures that lived in the deep. 196 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: I want to reference a passage that's quoted in Chet 197 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: van Deuser's book Sea Monsters on Medieval and Renaissance Maps, 198 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: which Robert this is a book you loaned me and 199 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: it's fantastic. Oh yeah, this is what. This is a 200 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: wonderful book, wonderful content. And there's so many rich illustrations 201 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: from these old maps. Yeah, they're they're wonderful. Now. Originally, 202 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: this quote is from the Kona Skusa or the King's Mirror, 203 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: which is a thirteenth century Old Norse educational text. So 204 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: it's got it's written in the form of a dialogue, 205 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: and it's got characters talking to each other about things 206 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: in the world, and we come to this passage talking 207 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: about marine life. So here it is quote. There is 208 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: a fish not yet mentioned, which it is scarcely advisable 209 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: to speak about, on account of its size, which to 210 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: most men will seem incredible. There are, moreover, but very 211 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: few who can tell anything definite about it, inasmuch as 212 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: it is rarely seen by men, for it almost never 213 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: approaches the shore or appears where fisher and can see it. 214 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: And I doubt that this sort of fish is very 215 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: plentiful in the sea. In our language it is usually 216 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: called the kraken. I can say nothing definite as to 217 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: its length in els, for on those occasions when men 218 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: have seen it it has appeared more like an island 219 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: than a fish, Nor have I heard that one has 220 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: ever been caught or found dead. It seems likely that 221 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: there are but two in all the ocean, and that 222 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: these beget no offspring, for I believe it is always 223 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: the same ones that appear. Nor would it be well 224 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: for other fishes if they were as numerous as other whales, 225 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: Seeing that they are so immense and needs so much food. 226 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: It is said that when these fishes want something to eat, 227 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: they are in the habit of giving forth a violent belch, 228 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: which brings up so much food that all sorts of 229 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: fish in the neighborhood, both large and small, will rush 230 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: up in hopes of getting nourishment and good fair. Meanwhile, 231 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: the monster keeps its mouth open, and inasmuch as its 232 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: opening is about as wide as a sound or fiord, 233 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: the fishes cannot help crowding in great numbers. But as 234 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: soon as its mouth and belly are full, the monster 235 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: closes its mouth, and thus catches and shuts in all 236 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: the fishes that just previously had rushed in eagerly to 237 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: seek food. Oh wow, that is a fabulous description. Yeah, 238 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: and that's an amazing hunting strategy. Yeah, I offhand, I 239 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: can't think of a real world organism that actually employs 240 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: something like that. Well, there's sort of, um, there are 241 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: versions in much smaller scales. Now, obviously you've got like 242 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: the snapping turtle with the fake worm lure in its 243 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: mouth and it will wait for the fish to sneak 244 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: in to get the food and then clamp shut. But 245 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: those artificial lures, right, But what we have here is 246 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: like this creature has eaten so much sea life and 247 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: then it vomits that sea life up, which brings in 248 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: greater populations of sea life, which it then it just 249 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: then just sucks all of that down. Yeah, but I 250 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: want to emphasize again this sounds ridiculous to us, but 251 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: we're living after Darwin. We know a lot more. We're 252 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: living after dar one name. We're living after you know, 253 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: submarines going down and looking at, well, what kind of 254 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: sea life is there? Really, we still don't know a 255 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: whole lot, but we know enough that this doesn't seem plausible. 256 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: But if you were armed with only what an educated 257 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: Norwegian courtier knew about deep sea life in the thirteenth century, 258 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: how would you argue against these accounts? Indeed, and uh, 259 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: you know this is there's another point that chet VanDuzer 260 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: makes in his book is that like in the ancient world, 261 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: it was it was often assumed that anything that existed 262 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: on the surface likely had a counterpart beneath the waves 263 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: and the mirror world. And I mean the names stick 264 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: with us, the sea lion, the sea cow, ce cucumber, 265 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: I guess the cea cucumber two, but the see hamburger. 266 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: But basically, when you start looking at all these fabulous beasts, 267 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: and I think we alluded to this a little bit 268 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: in our Aquatic Humanoids episode episodes, Uh, you find all 269 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: these various just ridiculous like sea dogs, etcetera. Literally the 270 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: idea that whatever we have here there must be a 271 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: counterpart beneath the waves. And I mean, to a certain extent, 272 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: there's there's a bit of truth in that, just the 273 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: idea that that whatever diversity we have on the surface, 274 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: that diversity must be represented beneath the waves. But of course, 275 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: in reality it's even it's even greater than that. The 276 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: vast majority of the planet's biodiversity is in the ocean. Well, yeah, 277 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: there's just so much ocean, and there are so many 278 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: ecological niches to fill within it. All right, we're gonna 279 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll jump right back in. 280 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: Thank thank you, thank you. All right, we're back now. 281 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: Of course, as we've said that, over time there has 282 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: been this steady increasing catalog of some knowledge about undersea life. 283 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: There's still a lot we don't know, but we know 284 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: a lot more than we used to. And one of 285 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: the earliest major explorations of marine biology was that of 286 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: Aristotle in the fourth century BC. In his Biology or 287 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: This History of of Animal Life, Aristotle got a lot wrong, like, 288 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: for example, he said the octopus is a stupid creature, 289 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: for it will approach a man's hand if it be 290 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,359 Speaker 1: lowered in the water. Now, on the other hand, Aristotle, 291 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: for his time, if you consider his limitations, got an 292 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: astonishing amount right. For example, he correctly determined that whales 293 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: and dolphins were not fish, and he made lots of 294 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: other extremely astute classifications. So, uh, filed this away under. 295 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: Aristotle occasionally says things that sound dumb to us, but 296 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: was not dumb. Yeah, yeah, I feel like we've touched 297 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: on this before on other topics. Uh. From our advantage point, 298 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: it's easy to to say Oh, yeah, you really screwed 299 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: that after Aristotle. But really, given what he had to 300 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: work with, his his understanding of the natural world was amazing. Yeah, 301 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: I just mean think about Aristotle's the research methods available 302 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: to him. Now, A lot of what he did he 303 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: probably he probably got a lot of information by like 304 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: talking to fisher folk and stuff like that. But he 305 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: also I think some people have said, you know, it 306 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: really looks from some of his statements like Aristotle performed dissections, 307 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: So we must have had some access to specimens. And 308 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: it's not so easy to always get specimens in the 309 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: ancient world, Like how how do you collect them? Do 310 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: you just like throw some nets and hope you get 311 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: some good stuff? Yeah? Especially this is especially important considering 312 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: that you have other historians and writers of the ancient 313 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: world who are very much going on second, third, and 314 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: fourth hand accounts of what was going on elsewhere in 315 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: the world. And and and that's where we see some 316 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: of these more ridiculous notions of of even terrestrial monsters 317 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: and creatures. Totally, it's like it's through a glass darkly 318 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: on in like four ways, right, So you're getting it secondhand. 319 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: You know that you heard a story from somebody who 320 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: heard a story who also was not really beneath the 321 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: waves when he or she saw this thing, but just 322 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: saw something poke up from the surface. I mean, there's 323 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: so many levels of removed from the actual biological reality 324 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: that it's not hard to understand where these myths about 325 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: sea monsters come from. So to explore the idea of 326 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: ways of understanding the deep sea, like the research methods 327 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: available to us before recent times, and like the invention 328 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: of modern technology like sonar and other stuff. Uh, there 329 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: were I want to say they were basically two broad 330 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: methods for studying the deepest parts of the ocean, and 331 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: for a little mythological flare, I want I want to 332 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: give them some mythological names to help us keep them organized. 333 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: So one I want to call the Ebisu method. So 334 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: Ebisu is the Japanese luck god, often depicted as a 335 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: jolly fisherman with a bright red bream on his line. 336 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: He's always got a fishing pole. So the Ebissue method 337 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: is to use some kind of method to pull creatures 338 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: up from the deep to the surface so you can 339 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: study them go fishing basically, okay. And the other one 340 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: I want to call the Gilgamesh method. Because Gilgamesh, of course, 341 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: is the protagonist of the four thousand year old Mesopotamian 342 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: work known as the Epic of Gilgamesh. And if you'll 343 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: recall and from the Epic of Gilgamesh and the second 344 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: half of the story Gilgamesh, he gets obsessed with finding 345 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: the secret of eternal life. And in Tablet eleven, he 346 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: receives a tip that there is a plant at the 347 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: bottom of the ocean covered in prickling thorns, which if 348 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: you pull it up from the ocean old grant you 349 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: eternal life. And so, to read from the Andrew George translation, 350 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: quote heavy stones, he tied to his feet, and they 351 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: pulled him down to the ocean below. He took the 352 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: plant and pulled it up and lifted it. The heavy 353 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: stones he cut loose from his feet, and the sea 354 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: cast him up on its shore. So the idea is Gilgamesh, 355 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: he weighs himself down, he goes to the very bottom 356 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: of the ocean, he cuts up this plant, and then 357 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: he cuts himself loose. So the Gilgamesh method, I'm going 358 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: to say is to dive as deep as you can 359 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: into the dark world and see what you can see. 360 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: But of course you also have to be able to 361 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: come back and report what you've seen. Right, Not not 362 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: all of us are Gilgamesh. Right, it seemed like he 363 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: could hold his breath for a long time and withstand 364 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: some crushing compression. They probably didn't necessarily understand at the time, 365 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: But so people have been accidentally practicing versions of the 366 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: Ebisome method for thousands of years. Right. So of course 367 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: the easiest thing is that sometimes dead organisms from the 368 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: deep sea will wash up on the shore in various 369 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: states of decomposition, and people could look at that and say, 370 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: I wonder what this is. Yeah, but we still see 371 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: this all the time. I feel like only a few 372 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: months will go go go by before there's another, uh 373 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: weird dead thing that's washed upon the beach, and various 374 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: websites will will start speculating as to what it was, 375 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: and generally they'll say, Oh, it's probably uh nessy, it's 376 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: probably a dinosaur. Yea monster. I mean, I'm torn because 377 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: I I love a good beach monster and I hate 378 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: the Daily Mail, and the latter is the best place 379 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: to go for the former. You you will always get. 380 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: The beach monster is interpreted in various ways, but I mean, 381 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: beach monster is a wild, grotesque and often classified as 382 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: monsters that don't really exist, can show us some things 383 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: about the deep ocean. Uh. The other thing would be 384 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: accidental ebisome method practicing just through fishing. People are throwing 385 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: nets in order to catch some fish to eat, but 386 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: they pull up something interesting by accident. Now, whether you're 387 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: practicing that this method on purpose or by accident, there 388 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: are definitely limits to what you can learn through it, 389 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: and will explore some of those limits in a bit. 390 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: One surprising thing to learn is that, according to some reports, 391 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: ancient people's actually did practice versions of the Gilgamesh method 392 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: as well. So, going back to Aristotle in his three 393 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 1: sixty BC work Problem at Um or the Problems, Aristotle 394 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: actually gives the earliest description I'm aware of of deep 395 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: diving technology. And so this is going to be a 396 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: version of the diving bell. And he's talking about divers 397 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 1: who fish for sponges on the sea floor, and he 398 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: discusses all kinds of weird practices these divers used to 399 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: make the deep more tolerable, and these include fastening sponges 400 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: around their ears or cutting slits in their own ears 401 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: and nostrils. And in this section Aristotle writes that quote. 402 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: In order that these fissures of sponges may be supplied 403 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: with a facility of respiration, a kettle is let down 404 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: to them, not filled with water, but with air, which 405 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: constantly assists the submerged demand. It is forcibly kept upright 406 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: in its descent in order that it may be sent 407 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: down at an equal level all around, to prevent the 408 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,959 Speaker 1: air from escaping and the water from entering. Now, if 409 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: you never like played this game in the bath as 410 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: a kid, you can make a simple diving bell just 411 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: by taking a cup or a bowl or something and 412 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: turning it upside down and then pressing it straight down 413 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: into the water and not letting it wobble. And what 414 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: it'll do is it will keep a bubble of air 415 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: trapped underneath the cup. And you could, if you were 416 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: a tiny diver, swim up in there or stay in 417 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: there and breathe down at the bottom. But this comes 418 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: with a lot of risks, right, like, if it gets 419 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: tipped over slightly, the air can escape and uh, and 420 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: of course you're still going to be dealing with all 421 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: kinds of weird pressure problems. Yeah, this is this is 422 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: one of those things that we all experiment within the bathtub. 423 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: I feel I've observed I've observed my my son doing 424 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: this as well, but he has not reached the conclusion, Hey, 425 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: why don't we take one of these to the ocean. 426 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: But I can I can imagine that this idea has 427 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: been around as long as we've had bowls, essentially as 428 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: long as we've had even just coconut husks or something 429 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: to that effect. Yeah, it's hard to know for sure 430 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: because Aristotle doesn't make it clear who invented this technique, 431 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: and he doesn't make it clear how long it's been 432 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: around or how common it was. He just mentions that 433 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: some divers can do this, So we don't know where 434 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: it comes from or how far it was taken in 435 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: the ancient world. But here is a really weird connection 436 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: I came across. According to medieval legend, Aristotle's student Alexander 437 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: the Great was his own kind of great undersea adventurer 438 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: and pioneer of the school of Gilgamesh. Robert, had you 439 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: ever come across the the Alexander the Grade as deep 440 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: sea explorer before? I don't believe ev I had, though 441 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: the William Beebe makes reference to it in his book 442 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: Half mile down. Yeah. Uh So there are a lot 443 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: of versions of this legend, and and to be very clear, 444 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: these are pretty much definitely false. Maybe some versions of 445 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: them are inspired by something that roughly happened, but but 446 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: as told, they're definitely false. So the oldest version I 447 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: think is the one about how while Alexander the Great 448 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: was laying siege to the city of Tier in Lebanon, 449 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: he had divers swimming underwater to either remove or to 450 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: put in place boom defenses. And a boom defenses something 451 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: you would put in in a harbor or a channel 452 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: that's like a huge chain or object that you would 453 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: place underwater to prevent the passage of ships. It recalls 454 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: something Terry and Lanister does in the Battle of Blackwater Bay. 455 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: Remember that. Oh I don't remember that. I remember all 456 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: the fire obviously, but I don't remember the use of 457 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: chains too. Yeah. In the book, he puts a big 458 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: chain across the water and this prevents the ships from 459 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: getting past. And this is an act tool technique. So 460 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: in some versions of the story, I think Alexander is 461 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: trying to get rid of boom defenses and somebody's trying 462 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: to put them in place. But in any case, he's 463 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: got divers working for him, and in one version of 464 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: the story written by a seventh century Arab historian and 465 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: quoted in the History of Underwater Exploration by Richard F. Marks, 466 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: Alexander wants to go underwater, either to help with this 467 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: task or to see how it's coming along. So he 468 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: has his workmen build him a huge wooden box with 469 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: glass windows that are sealed with resin and wax to 470 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: keep the water out. And then the room at this 471 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: box is weighed down with iron and lead and stone 472 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: and then lowered into the water between two ships, with 473 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: Alexander and a couple of his secretaries inside the box. 474 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: And then from inside this sealed room they can look 475 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: out the glass windows and see what's happening deep underwater 476 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: in the ocean quote. Thanks to the transparency of the 477 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: glass and the limpidity of the water, Alexander and his 478 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: two companions were able to see the marine monsters and 479 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: a specieas of demon, having the head of a ferocious 480 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: beast attached to a human body. Some of them carried axes, 481 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: others saws, and still others hammers, so they looked like workman. 482 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: Alexander and his two secretaries drew careful pictures of these monsters. 483 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: Then they pulled the line and at this signal, the 484 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: men on the ships drew up the case. The king 485 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: stepped out and was carried back to Alexandria. Well, you know, 486 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: hearing that, I I feel that Alexander deserved to be 487 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: frightened a little bit, since he was really kind of 488 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: micromanaging on all this. He really should have learned to 489 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: delegate a bit more. Well, what I like about the 490 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: story is that it does imply some kind of scientific observation. 491 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: It's just observation of demons instead of real wildlife. But 492 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: there's actually there there are other funny versions of this. 493 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: There's a totally different version of Alexander as Gilgamesh that 494 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: I came across in this illustrated manuscript. It's an early 495 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: fifteenth century German manuscript telling a story of how Alexander 496 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: goes down to the bottom of the ocean in a 497 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: diving bell and he trusts so this would be not 498 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: a not an encased room with glass windows, but like 499 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: a regular diving bell, So a bell upturned in the 500 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: water that's got an air bubble in it, and he 501 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: goes down and uh, he entrusts his loyal mistress to 502 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: watch over the chain that can pull the bell back 503 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: up to the surface, and unfortunately, while she's watching the chain, 504 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: her lover gets her to run off with him and 505 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: abandoned Alexander and throw the chain into the sea. Not 506 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: good for alex I like the theme of this though, 507 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: because it basically it portrays Alexander the Great is indeed 508 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: a great individual who can do great things and go 509 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: places the northern man can go. But in doing so 510 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: there's a there, there's there's an inherent weakness. Well, use 511 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: this technology. It's not just like magic super strength. He 512 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: can swim to the bottom of the ocean. He builds 513 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: a technological marvel to get him down there, but in 514 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: doing so he neglects his mistress. Right, Yeah, And I've 515 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: got an illustration here, Robert, you can look at that's 516 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: got alex down in this in this bubble. He's looking 517 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: very unhappy. He's got a big mustache, and he appears 518 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: to be frowning and scowling at the surface where his 519 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: mistress and her lover are cavorting in this ship. And 520 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: then meanwhile in the background there are these gigantic fish 521 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: swimming by that I guess he's not even noticing because 522 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: he's angry. Yeah, and but at least they do look 523 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: like real fish and not visions from hell. I believe 524 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: the example that the William Beebe draws on is the 525 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: idea that uh that that Alexander the Great uh observes 526 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: a fish that is so large that it takes days 527 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: for it to pass him by. So another equally outrageous 528 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: uh or perhaps just uh exaggerated example of what life 529 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: might be underwater. And that's the feeling I'm getting from 530 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: all of these accounts. It sounds like less an example of, Hey, 531 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: somebody went underwater and they saw this, but more of 532 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: almost like a science fictional scenario. What would it be 533 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: like if I could go underwater and see the things 534 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: that are down there, and in to build that I 535 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: have to base it on what do I believe exists 536 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: under the water. Well, I would say much in the 537 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: same way that the science fiction of space encouraged people 538 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: to become real astronauts and want to explore I think 539 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: maybe some of this ancient and medieval science fiction about 540 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: the underwater realms may have inspired people to want to 541 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: actually build real diving bell technology and go down there 542 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: and that that is what eventually happened. Genuine scientific interest 543 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: in the ocean depths and the real use of diving 544 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: technologies like the diving bell showed up again in more 545 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: recent decades, specifically starting around the sixteenth century. You you 546 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: start to see people messing with diving bells. How deep 547 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: can we go? Uh? Some of this was just for 548 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: purely commercial reasons, like people wanted to salvage shipwrecks and 549 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: get rich and all that, but also there was a 550 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: genuine spirit about of exploration about the deep ocean, to 551 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: get down there and see what you could see. But 552 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: of course, as we mentioned, diving bells have a lot 553 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: of limitations. All right, on that note, we're going to 554 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: take a quick break, and when we come back, we're 555 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: gonna discuss the the pre bb world of deep sea 556 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: exploration just a little bit more. Thank thank you, thank you. 557 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: All right, we're back. So we've talked about ancient investigation 558 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: into the nature of the deep sea, both real and mythological, 559 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: in the form of the Abi zoom method like fishing, 560 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: pulling things up and seeing what they're like, and the 561 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: Gilgamesh method diving down and seeing what you can see 562 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: yourself and in the nineteenth century the eb zoom method 563 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: by way of the biological dredge, was very popular for naturalists, zoologists, socianographers, 564 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: all these people trying to understand what existed in the 565 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: hidden deep. And one practitioner of this method, the biological dredge, 566 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: was the British naturalist Edward Forbes. Now Forbes was a 567 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: naturalist from the Isle of Man. He was reportedly a 568 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: very likable dude. People took a shine to him. But 569 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: in in eighteen forty one, Edward Forbes was on a 570 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: journey aboard a surveying ship called the h MS Beacon 571 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: in the Mediator Rainy and see, and during this voyage 572 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: they would dredge the water. So what you have to 573 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: imagine there is like a bag or a bucket type 574 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: contraption that you would drag along the bottom of the 575 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: ocean from behind the ship. And then when you drag 576 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: it along and scoop some stuff up, then you pull 577 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: it back up and see what you caught. All right. 578 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: I have conducted the very same sort of investigation in 579 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: the surf with my son. Just drag a bucket, get 580 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of sand, and then you dump it out 581 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: and see what you manage to catch, and sometimes you 582 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: do find an interesting organism. Yeah, what have you found 583 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: that way? Oh? They are we always call them sand fleas, 584 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: but they're not actual sand fleas. They're little iceopods. I 585 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: can't remember this specific species name offhand, but depending on 586 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: the sort of on the Florida beach you go to, 587 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: you can find a number of these. Aren't they the 588 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: jumping ones? They don't jump, They burrow really quickly, so basically, 589 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: if you if you were able to scoop underneath them, 590 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 1: they can't dig away from you. I see. And most 591 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: of them are really small, but you can find something 592 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: that are the size of a real look the size 593 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: of your thumb. They're pretty fun. That's cool, though, I 594 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: thought you were referring to things I have actually seen that. 595 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if their fleas or what. I should 596 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: look up what these organisms are. One time we were 597 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: up on the Northwest coast, I believe, a beach in Oregon, 598 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: and the beach was just covered in what appeared to 599 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: be jumping fleas. There these little like white, pale fleas 600 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: that would jump all over you. It was kind of horrible. Yeah, 601 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: and I think I believe those are more accurately sand fleas, 602 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, and I've talked to other it 603 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: wasn't just my family. I've talked to other people, and 604 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: I've asked him, well, what did you call these things 605 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: when you were a kid going to the beach, and like, oh, yeah, 606 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: we call those sand fleas. So but again they're they're 607 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: more technically a variety of iopod. Well, Forbes was playing 608 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: this game, the Drag the Bucket game, at much much 609 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: deeper than just in the surf, and catching much more 610 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: than just sand fleas. So Forbes noticed though as you 611 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: play this game, as you you go through the Mediterranean 612 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: Sea on the beacon dredging the bottom, that as you 613 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: moved deeper and deeper into deeper waters, the dredge came 614 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: up with fewer types of organisms. So you can see 615 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: where the reasoning probably went from there. Right, the lower 616 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: down you go, the less life there is. So. Extrapolating 617 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: from his observations, in eighteen forty three, Forbes proposed what 618 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: came to be known as the abyssess theory or the 619 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: a zoic hypothesis, and this specifically said that below three 620 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: hundred fathoms, which is about five hundred and fifty meters 621 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: or eighteen hundred feet, the oceans were completely dead. Now 622 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: this makes a certain kind of sense, right, Like a 623 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: lot of false hypotheses, it has this sense of truthiness. 624 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: It feels right, and other contemporary scientists backed Forbes up. 625 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: So I'm going to quote from an eighteen sixty three 626 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: text book by the Scottish geologist David Page, in which 627 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: Page is discussing the powerful compression effects of vast amounts 628 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: of water. So he explains that at four thousand fathoms, 629 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: the pressure of the ocean would be about seven hundred 630 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: and fifty atmospheres, and he considers that just intolerable at 631 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: vast depths. Therefore, it is generally supposed that vegetable and 632 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: animal life as known to us could not possibly exist, 633 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: And though some recent soundings of the North Seas at 634 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: the depth of one thousand, two hundred and sixty fathoms 635 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: would seem to oppose this opinion, yet the paucity and 636 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: uncertainty of these trials leave the question still in doubt, 637 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: and we may, in the meantime adhere to the general 638 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: belief that the extreme depressions of the ocean, like the 639 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: extreme elevations of the land are barren and lifeless solitudes. 640 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: All right. So in this case, he's drawing upon just 641 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: the idea that the water pressure would be too great 642 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: for life as we know it to exist. I mean truthie, right, Like, 643 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: if you're under seven fifty atmospheres, couldn't possibly be a 644 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: thing to survive? That? Right? Okay, Yeah, I can I 645 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: can see where that that idea could had a certain 646 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: amount of truthiness to it. Uh. Now, certainly we know 647 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 1: that that that that the sunlit poor of the ocean, 648 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: that's where most of the life is. That is where 649 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: that's where you encounter all of the plankton, the creatures 650 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: that feed upon the plankton, uh, creatures that depend upon 651 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: the sunlight, and then the creatures that consume those organisms 652 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: that is going to be found in the upper ocean. 653 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: But another thing they could have reasoned is, I wonder 654 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: what happens to all those organisms in the sunlit area 655 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: when they die? And then if they're gonna if they're 656 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: gonna be packing some good chemical energy with them after 657 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: they die, wouldn't someone want to take advantage of that exactly? 658 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: And then you you also have to begin to say, well, 659 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: if everything is if all the life is up here 660 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: in the sunlit ocean, then isn't the dark ocean? Isn't 661 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: that a great place to say, go hide out? Is 662 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: it a great place? Just maybe set up as your 663 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: main base of operations? Right? So, really, this hypothesis should 664 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: have been a nonstarter. Forbes was completely wrong, uh, since 665 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: many dredging experiments had already at a time of Forbes 666 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 1: caught life forms from depths of below three hundred fathoms. 667 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: Page alludes to this. Nevertheless, it was supported by some 668 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: for several decades, but later biologists and oceanographers eventually just 669 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: beat this zombie down like that. It didn't survive all 670 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: that much longer. And one of the many researchers to 671 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: assist in knocking down the zombie a zoic hypothesis was 672 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: the Scottish naturalist Charles Wyville Thompson, and in an eighteen 673 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: seventy three report called the Depths of the Sea, Thompson 674 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: published the results of his own dredging expeditions in the 675 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: seas north of Scotland. So while dredging to a depth 676 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: of six hundred and fifty fathoms, he discovered all kinds 677 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: of invertebrate organisms that Forbes had missed, and I'm not 678 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: sure of the reason, but one thing I've read that 679 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: may or may not be true is that later investigators 680 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: had better dredging equipment than Forbes, which was less likely 681 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: to spill the things it caught on the way back 682 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: up to the surface. You can imagine this would be 683 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: a problem. You're like trying to pull up the stuff 684 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: you caught, and it's just like going all to the place. Yeah, 685 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: your bucket isn't big enough, or you're not handling the 686 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,439 Speaker 1: bucket properly, and run into all sorts of problems. Now, 687 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: Thompson would also go on to head up one of 688 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: the most important ocean a graphic research expeditions of all 689 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: time about the deep sea, which was the Challenger Expedition 690 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: beginning in eighteen seventy two, which did a lot of stuff. 691 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 1: It's circumnavigated the globe on a ship called the HMS Challenger, 692 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: and it collected an absolute wealth of scientific observation, much 693 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: of which is still relevant today. They catalog more than 694 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: four thousand new species. They did soundings in the ocean 695 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: all over the world and came up with the general 696 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 1: shape of Earth's ocean basins, and they discovered ocean features 697 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: like the mid Atlantic Ridge and the Challenger Deep, which 698 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: is of course named for the expedition. But still as 699 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: wonderful as all this knowledge was, there were still limits 700 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: imposed by the fact that they were using what we 701 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,879 Speaker 1: what I've been calling the eb zoom method. They're they're 702 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: pulling stuff up from the bottom. Like imagine trying to 703 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: study the Amazon rainforest by flying over it in an 704 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: airplane and dragging a bucket along the forest floor behind you, 705 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 1: and then reeling it up and seeing what you've got 706 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: in the bucket. Like, you see some problems already, but 707 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: also a factor in the differences in the conditions of 708 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: the deep ocean and the surface where we want to 709 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: study the things we pull up from the bottom, that 710 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: that's a problem too, Right, You've got massive changes in light, 711 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: in temperature, which is a big one, in and pressure. 712 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: And so maybe a better analogy is like imagining an 713 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: alien satellite studying us by scooping us up in a 714 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: net and then pulling us up into outer space to 715 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: have a look. Right. Sometimes organisms dredged up from the 716 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: deep ocean can be kept alive if you keep them refrigerated, 717 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: but other times they're just going to be killed or 718 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: even reduced to google in the process of removing them 719 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: from their natural environment. One interesting fact is that many 720 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: deep secret creatures are actually able to withstand lower pressure 721 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: on the surface, and others are not. For example, I 722 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: found a blog post by a marine biologist named Dr 723 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: Craig McClain who wrote, quote, I've tried to collect a 724 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: particularly gelatinous red sea cucumber several times. Each time at 725 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: the surface. When I pulled a collection canister off the 726 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: r O V. The canister is filled with thick red 727 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: kool aid, which I presume is the remains of the 728 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: red sea cucumber. So there are these limitations to the 729 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: epissue method. If you want to keep pulling stuff up 730 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: from the bottom to study it at the top, you're 731 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: always going to have a sort of cap on what 732 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: sorts of scientific progress you're able to make. So would 733 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,959 Speaker 1: there ever be a better way to study the deep 734 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: other than these incredibly dangerous and limited power diving bells? 735 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: Would a true Gilgamesh method arise? Ah, well, Joe, a 736 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: true Gilgamesh will arise, but he's gonna have to wait 737 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: till next episode. I think we're out of time here today. 738 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,879 Speaker 1: So that is going to be the next episode where 739 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: we primarily discussed the bathosphere and the work of William B. 740 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: B Correct. But yeah, before we close out today, I 741 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: just want to try to imagine what it's like to 742 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: be in an oceanographer or marine biologists mindset before we 743 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: get to the bath sphere. Leaving off at the end 744 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: of everything we've discussed today, right, so, you you've been 745 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 1: stuck on the surface of the water. You just can't 746 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,760 Speaker 1: really dive down and see what's beneath the ocean yourself, 747 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 1: or at least not very well. And so you're you're 748 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: limited to these methods of dragging buckets along or trawling 749 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: with nets, or trying to scoop stuff up from the 750 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: from the sea floor. What what is that like to have, 751 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: like not have access to all of this life that 752 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,879 Speaker 1: you want to study and and always performing these kind 753 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: of like random samplings is the only way to get 754 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: at it. Yeah. And then even as these various technologies 755 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: do come on online, which I alluded to earlier, you 756 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: you don't have the ability to really get into the depths. 757 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: There are depths of the ocean that are just beyond 758 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: your ability to venture into. Yeah, and and you can't 759 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: you can't explore and see it the way it's supposed 760 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 1: to be, right or I mean supposed to be the 761 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: way it naturally is. To study, you must destroy if 762 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: you're going to be saying ampling in the ebissome method, right, 763 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: And but then how do you explore it yourself without 764 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,879 Speaker 1: destroying yourself? Essentially? And that that is where the bathmosphere 765 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,959 Speaker 1: comes in. Next time on Stuff to Blow Your Mind, 766 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: it's almost like nature doesn't want us to explore the 767 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: deep sea. Yeah, it's almost like it's a warning or 768 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,280 Speaker 1: it's almost like we're we're fragile flesh creatures that have 769 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: have evolved only to thrive within a very slim portion 770 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: of our own environment. Uh. So hey, we're gonna we 771 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: are going to leave you now. Uh. If you want 772 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow your 773 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: Mind dot com, many of which have involved the ocean, 774 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: and in many cases the deep ocean, then you can 775 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: find them there. You also find blog post links out 776 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: to our various social media accounts as well. Huge thanks 777 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producers Alex Williams and 778 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: Tory Harrison. If you would like to get in touch 779 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: with us to let us know feedback on this episode 780 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,760 Speaker 1: or any other, to suggest a topic for a future episode, 781 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: or just to say hi. You can email us at 782 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com for 783 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it 784 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. The Bigges