1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,400
Speaker 1: This is the business of sports. Let's talk Super Bowl

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: and Fox Sports Guarantee money isn't necessarily guaranteed. One major

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,000
Speaker 1: League soccer owner is leading out fifty billion dollar investment,

4
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: blurring of the lines between sports team owners and the

5
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,599
Speaker 1: sports gambling space. How high can these valuations go? Evan

6
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 1: Nobody william Off the field, the NBA has never been buzzier,

7
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,000
Speaker 1: and the leaders in the sports industry, Major League Baseball

8
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 1: Commission to Rob Manfred Idy O'Neill is President of Director

9
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,600
Speaker 1: Consumer in that game, then the race card driver Elio

10
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,320
Speaker 1: Castro and Evs Jared Smith, president of Ticketmasters. Bloomberg Business

11
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,680
Speaker 1: of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, I'm Evan, Novie Williams,

12
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,880
Speaker 1: and I'm Michael Barr and this is the Bloomberg Business

13
00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,320
Speaker 1: of Sports podcast. But we explored the big money issues

14
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,200
Speaker 1: in the world of sports, and we joined with Boston's

15
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,839
Speaker 1: own Mike Lynch, and gentlemen, let's get at it. I

16
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,520
Speaker 1: am sure ESPN is saying thank you, Sweet Merciful for

17
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: being able to air the Last Dance. That's the Michael

18
00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 1: Jordan's documentary. It's something that eespen needs. They need ratings,

19
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,399
Speaker 1: and I bet you they got great ones after this. Yeah, Michael,

20
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,319
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated to see what the final numbers are. The

21
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 1: first two episodes of the ten episode Last Dance aired

22
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: on Sunday night. Again, not much competition programming wise from

23
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 1: a sports standpoint. Again, this is the the Netflix ESPN

24
00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 1: collaboration about the sixth and final NBA title one by

25
00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan with the bulls. Certainly a lot of social

26
00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,440
Speaker 1: media chatter around it. What do we think in Mike

27
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,320
Speaker 1: start with you from a rating standpoint, you know, are

28
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 1: we thinking five million more or less? You know, we

29
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,520
Speaker 1: were so starved in the sports world that we would

30
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: have just gobbled up the ham and cheese sandwich. And

31
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 1: ESPN offered up filet mignon and lobster uh in episodes one,

32
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,480
Speaker 1: in episodes number two, and everybody that's been starving for

33
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 1: something gobbled it right down and was looking for seconds,

34
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,640
Speaker 1: and they got a second because they're running two episodes

35
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,120
Speaker 1: every Sunday night, which used to be reserved for the

36
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 1: Sopranos and Ray Donna then, but now it's going to

37
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 1: be the last Dance. The only thing that's missing is

38
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,160
Speaker 1: Donna Summer singing uh uh in the in the in

39
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,320
Speaker 1: the background right here, but the timing couldn't be more perfect. Um,

40
00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 1: it's I've seen I didn't watch the first two shows,

41
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,480
Speaker 1: I DVR them, but I've seen enough of the clips

42
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,920
Speaker 1: and you know, being a Celtic fan up here in Boston. UM,

43
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,040
Speaker 1: this sort of came after the Celtic run in the

44
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 1: early eighties and then the Pistons run and then of

45
00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,040
Speaker 1: course that great run of six championships in eight years.

46
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,680
Speaker 1: So I think the numbers will be be off the charts,

47
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 1: UH as long as people stayed awake, because I think

48
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,320
Speaker 1: it started at nine o'clock Eastern time and sleeping. Sleeping

49
00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 1: has been one of the UH has now become a

50
00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 1: varsity sport around the country. It's hard to imagine a

51
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,240
Speaker 1: piece of original content that ESPN could put out that

52
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,960
Speaker 1: would have a bigger reach and a bigger interested audience

53
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,640
Speaker 1: than a long form documentary about those you know, crazy

54
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,800
Speaker 1: NBA years, about the most famous beat on the planet

55
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 1: at the time, UH, and about everything surrounding them. I again,

56
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 1: the ratings number. I think it's going to be fascinating

57
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 1: here because it's gonna show, in my opinion, kind of

58
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 1: how how much ESPN can at the highest highest end

59
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,520
Speaker 1: tap into people who are sports fans but are not

60
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,520
Speaker 1: watching live sports. And on the other end, if if

61
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,679
Speaker 1: they end up lower than I think people think, there

62
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,880
Speaker 1: may be a lesson here in that there is no

63
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 1: actual replacement, even in desperate times, that there may not

64
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 1: be a replacement at all for a playoff basketball game

65
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,720
Speaker 1: or a playoff hockey game. There's a clip that just

66
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 1: breaks me up when I when I see this, and

67
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 1: one of the clips involves and at the time, remember

68
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 1: that Dennis Rodman was with the Chicago Bulls and Jordan

69
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 1: is talking about how he that they about a vacation

70
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 1: that he was that he was teammate was going to

71
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 1: take forty eight hours in Las Vegas Dennis Rodman, and

72
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,400
Speaker 1: Jordan's simply said, if he goes to Vegas, he's not

73
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 1: coming back. He's not coming back at all. I just

74
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,440
Speaker 1: started cracking up, and and then then as Rodman starts

75
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 1: cragging up when he sees the clip, it is too funny.

76
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,920
Speaker 1: I agree with you. There's lots in here that that

77
00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 1: shows how different the NBA was twenty years ago, fifteen

78
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 1: years ago than it is it is right now. And

79
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,479
Speaker 1: some fun you know, sports business show a lot of

80
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,920
Speaker 1: interesting sports business stuff in there, right, Michael Jordan's relationship

81
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,479
Speaker 1: with Nike and how close he came to signing with Adidas, which, Michael,

82
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,440
Speaker 1: if you remember when we had Gary Stokin on the

83
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 1: podcast last year, he was the guy at Adidas that

84
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,520
Speaker 1: was recruiting Michael Jordan, and he talked about how close

85
00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,039
Speaker 1: he came. If they had just opened you know, I

86
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 1: think it was two million dollars. If they were offering

87
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,560
Speaker 1: two million more, Michael would have been an Auditas instead

88
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,520
Speaker 1: of Nike. And how different the sports business landscape might

89
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: look after that. Adam Silver, now commissioner the NBA, was

90
00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, president of the ESPNS Entertainment Division. Then he's

91
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:06,039
Speaker 1: the guy that negotiated having these cameras follow Jackson and

92
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 1: Jordan's and the Bulls for that year ended up with

93
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,640
Speaker 1: ten thousand hours of footage. There's a lot of interesting

94
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,279
Speaker 1: kind of side aspects to this, including the fact you

95
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 1: know that the ESPN asked the producers to rush this

96
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,799
Speaker 1: up right, that they realized exactly what we're talking about,

97
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,600
Speaker 1: that people are maybe starved for content. There's not much

98
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,920
Speaker 1: sports happening right now. This is something that's gonna appeal

99
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,480
Speaker 1: to a very wide base of sports fans, and as

100
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,159
Speaker 1: a result, they sped the thing up to get it

101
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 1: ready to be viewed in April, as opposed to a

102
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 1: few months later. Speaking of the NBA, let's talk about

103
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 1: the number one prospect in the ESPN one, California high

104
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,680
Speaker 1: school star Jalen Green. He is making a leap and

105
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,080
Speaker 1: he is going straight to the G League, according to

106
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,160
Speaker 1: what sources are saying now. And I'm thinking about this,

107
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm wondering is this the best time to do it

108
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,039
Speaker 1: with the circumstances or the worst time? So this is

109
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 1: a this is a really interesting one in my opinion.

110
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,160
Speaker 1: You know, for so long it was elite high school

111
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 1: players go to the n c A and then they

112
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,120
Speaker 1: go pro. And now we're starting to see some alternative

113
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,720
Speaker 1: options pop up that are alluring. You know, we saw

114
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,360
Speaker 1: a few players go play in New Zealand and Australia

115
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 1: last year for about a hundred thousand dollars a hundred

116
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,479
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars. Then a route is still there.

117
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,039
Speaker 1: Now the NBA is is upping it's it's ge League

118
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,920
Speaker 1: anti right, So they are now creating this development program

119
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 1: for young players who want to instead of going to

120
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,760
Speaker 1: the n c a can get paid a lot of

121
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,680
Speaker 1: money five dred thousand dollars or more, depending on kind

122
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: of what the bonus is like. Um, get some development,

123
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 1: get to play some games, get scouted by league personnel, etcetera,

124
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,440
Speaker 1: and then jump to the league the next year. Um,

125
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,159
Speaker 1: I'm curious, and Mike Way in here, is this a

126
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,040
Speaker 1: kind of a breaking of the damn a little bit?

127
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 1: Do you think we're gonna see more and more of

128
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 1: these elite prospects maybe choosing routes other than the n

129
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,320
Speaker 1: C A A. And if you're an n c A

130
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,560
Speaker 1: coach or administrator, are you are you worried by this

131
00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,000
Speaker 1: at all? Well, I can tell you what we're more

132
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,480
Speaker 1: so the tears are coming from right now Lexington, Kentucky

133
00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,520
Speaker 1: and John Calipari's eyes because he is the king of

134
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 1: the one and done players obviously. But I think it's

135
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 1: it's it's a great avenue. I think it's just a

136
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 1: it's an awful tease for the n c double A

137
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 1: basketball fan and especially if you're at a school when

138
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,200
Speaker 1: players come in and it's one and done. So here's

139
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 1: an alternative avenue that the tours the players from going

140
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 1: down under and playing in Australia and they're going to

141
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,240
Speaker 1: be matched up with some some veteran NBA guys and

142
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,720
Speaker 1: there's supposed to be some mentoring in terms of life,

143
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 1: life learning skills, etcetera that go along with being an

144
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,760
Speaker 1: eighteen year old kid and being on the road and

145
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,960
Speaker 1: being on your own with an awful lot of money

146
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 1: for all of a sudden So I think it's a

147
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,320
Speaker 1: pretty good idea by by the NBA. They've come to

148
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,120
Speaker 1: the realization that this one and done thing is is

149
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of an embarrassment and it it hurts

150
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 1: the colleges and uh and if if the intent is

151
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,840
Speaker 1: coming out of high school, I want to go straight

152
00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: to the NBA. This is sort of, uh, your your

153
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 1: minor league where you're gonna go and you're gonna it's

154
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: your prep school. How's that For a year you're gonna

155
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:04,920
Speaker 1: go and you're gonna learn with some life skills, you're

156
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,120
Speaker 1: gonna get paid, and you're gonna develop your basketball skills,

157
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 1: and then the next year you hopefully be ready to

158
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:11,720
Speaker 1: go to the NBA. I don't think it's a bad

159
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,520
Speaker 1: idea at all, and it benefits the NBA significantly as well.

160
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 1: I mean, let's not forget the real the reason why

161
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:19,840
Speaker 1: one of the people have to go to or not

162
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: have to go to college, but the reason why you

163
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 1: can't go from high school to the pros right now

164
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,720
Speaker 1: is because the NBA essentially outlawed because they wanted more

165
00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 1: time to evaluate and better evaluate prospects. They didn't want

166
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,360
Speaker 1: to invest in a seventeen year old who might not

167
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,120
Speaker 1: make it at all in the league. Playing in the

168
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,400
Speaker 1: NBA G League gives NBA teams and NBA personnel the

169
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,280
Speaker 1: best possible avenue to scout players, to understand how good

170
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,600
Speaker 1: they are, what their weaknesses are, what their strengths are,

171
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,160
Speaker 1: and that helps the entire league because it helps them

172
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,439
Speaker 1: all make more informed decisions and maybe not waste money

173
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,360
Speaker 1: on on a pick that they just didn't have enough

174
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: background on to get it. Michael, question for you, if

175
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,559
Speaker 1: we see more athletes making this jumps, say that the

176
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,880
Speaker 1: the the elitist of the elite high school prospects end

177
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,559
Speaker 1: up taking avenues that are that are not college basketball.

178
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 1: Is there a risk there for college basketball or not?

179
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously these schools are not going away. They're

180
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 1: always gonna gonna field kids. What's the stronger brand do

181
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,680
Speaker 1: you think the the elite basketball at this age, or

182
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,559
Speaker 1: a brand like Duke or a brand like Kentucky. Well,

183
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 1: you give a seventeen year old kid and you have

184
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 1: the pay that you can make for an elite prospect

185
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 1: at half a million dollars, how are you gonna stop that?

186
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that's hard and for the UH, for

187
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 1: the n C Double A to compete with now granted,

188
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, how you how are you gonna

189
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 1: do that? It's now. If you are you know, like

190
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,199
Speaker 1: Joe blow athlete and you're offered a scholarship, maybe it's

191
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 1: something totally different. But if someone offers you a half

192
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,040
Speaker 1: a million dollars and you're seventeen years old, I know me,

193
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,920
Speaker 1: I would lose my mind. So here's my question, here's

194
00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,640
Speaker 1: my counter to that. Right, think you think about someone

195
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 1: like Zi and Williamson, you know, who was an all star,

196
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,839
Speaker 1: can't miss prospect out of high school. A lot of

197
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 1: people knew who he was. Would have been drafted in

198
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 1: the NBA if he could have right out of high school. Obviously,

199
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,960
Speaker 1: if he goes to the G League and you know,

200
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,800
Speaker 1: remains a fantastic prospect, but not as many people watch him.

201
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 1: He's not on ESPN three times a week because of

202
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, the G League, media contracts, etcetera. Is he

203
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,720
Speaker 1: as big a deal when he hits the NBA? Is

204
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,560
Speaker 1: his shoe deal less because he didn't go to Duke

205
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,560
Speaker 1: versus maybe not getting paid in college, but having a

206
00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,840
Speaker 1: platform and having you know, millions of people watching him

207
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,120
Speaker 1: every week to help build kind of the lore around

208
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 1: his brand. Well, you get the exposure. But I hate

209
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,360
Speaker 1: to put it like this, but half of his shoe

210
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,559
Speaker 1: deal came along because he blew out half a shoe.

211
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 1: And I mean, it made so much news about that.

212
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, it's like, you know, it's

213
00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 1: like hitting another lottery ticket. So I get what you're saying.

214
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 1: You get the exposure in year when you're playing in

215
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 1: college and you see Zion Williamson. And but what I'm

216
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 1: saying is, eventually, once sports gets back to some normalcy,

217
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 1: why not televise a lot of the G League games.

218
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,199
Speaker 1: I'm saying, if I'm an n C double a basketball

219
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:22,559
Speaker 1: fan and I'm watching the March Madness with sixty four teams, um,

220
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: I'm not missing Jalen Green, I'm not missing Zion Williamson.

221
00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 1: I'm looking at what the product is right here. So

222
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,400
Speaker 1: I don't think it hurts the n C Double A

223
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,880
Speaker 1: or the n C Double A tournament. And I think

224
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,840
Speaker 1: at the same time it benefits those that are going

225
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,439
Speaker 1: to go into the G League. They're still going to

226
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,199
Speaker 1: get this shoe deals, they're still going to get there.

227
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,319
Speaker 1: But anyway from two to five hundred thousand dollars, I

228
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,120
Speaker 1: think it's win win for both. I agree with you,

229
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,840
Speaker 1: and you know, there's also this this group of players

230
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 1: that just aren't top you know, wonder kin prospects out

231
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,079
Speaker 1: of high school who end up developing in college and

232
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,320
Speaker 1: end up being great pros. Right, I mean Obi Topin,

233
00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 1: who was the number one player in college basketball this year.

234
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 1: You know it wasn't really heavily recruited. Russell Westbrook wasn't

235
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 1: recruited really either out of high school. You know that

236
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 1: there's still gonna be this class of players who develop

237
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 1: into like surefire super superstars in the NBA. John Morant

238
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,760
Speaker 1: another one um, but just weren't good enough in high

239
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 1: school to have the five thousand dollar G League golfer period.

240
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 1: So I agree with you, Mike and Michael. I think,

241
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, college basketball is still gonna be fine. That's

242
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 1: great to have more different options for for these kids

243
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,600
Speaker 1: who are supremely talented that young. Let's talk about your story, uh, Evan,

244
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,800
Speaker 1: And this involves college athletic departments and budgets just getting

245
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:37,200
Speaker 1: slam right now because we don't know what's going to

246
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:43,680
Speaker 1: happen come fall. Uh. The worst case scenario for the

247
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 1: football season is that we don't have a football season

248
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 1: for college athletics. And what makes it really hard is

249
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 1: that for many colleges that's their bread and butter for

250
00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:00,079
Speaker 1: getting revenue. Yeah, so you know, no question, every re

251
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,960
Speaker 1: major athletic department in the country is going to be

252
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 1: pinched for money this year. We don't know how bad

253
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,760
Speaker 1: it's gonna be because, as you said, Michael, we don't

254
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,439
Speaker 1: know what's gonna happen with the football season. What I'm

255
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,560
Speaker 1: very interested in is the different ways in which different

256
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,199
Speaker 1: athletic departments are going about accounting for some of this

257
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,040
Speaker 1: budget hits right now. So we've seen some schools like

258
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,840
Speaker 1: Louisville and Iowa State make all their coaches and administrators

259
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 1: take a certain pay cut. We've seen some schools like

260
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,160
Speaker 1: Old Dominion and Cincinnati who are starting to cut programs

261
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,199
Speaker 1: so Old Dominion cut its wrestling program, Cincinnati cut its

262
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,680
Speaker 1: men's soccer program. We have other ones, which I wrote

263
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 1: about this week. Clemson has halted its capital projects. It

264
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,200
Speaker 1: is thinking about travel and maybe scheduling for some sports

265
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 1: as a way to uh to cut costs. But we're

266
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,599
Speaker 1: starting to see different approaches by different schools, and I

267
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,760
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting to see how how they all

268
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 1: play out. Mike. When you think about the different ways

269
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,400
Speaker 1: that the colleges can can cut these, you know, can

270
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 1: save some money. Are there ones that that make more

271
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,319
Speaker 1: sense to you than others? Well? And the non revenue

272
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 1: sports are obviously the first target coming up softball, UM,

273
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to say baseball, but maybe maybe outdoor

274
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 1: track uh in the springtime. I worry about the Division

275
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,719
Speaker 1: two and the Division three schools as well. UM that

276
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 1: really have you know if they get five dred people

277
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 1: at a football game, that that's nice. They rely on

278
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 1: alumni alumni donations. UM. This this, this is going to

279
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 1: hurt in any school that that's been pondering for years

280
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,880
Speaker 1: the future of some program. UH. It's going to make

281
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 1: it much easier for them now to make a decision

282
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 1: to to cut them. UM. I know that FPS has

283
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 1: to have a minimum of sixteen varsity into intercollegiate sports,

284
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be a tough call for some athletic directors.

285
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 1: There's there's no question about it. And you know, the

286
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,040
Speaker 1: big paycheck that comes from the n C Double A

287
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 1: basketball tournament, which is usually I think roughly around six

288
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,480
Speaker 1: hundred million a year that gets dispersed to the schools

289
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 1: in June, is now down to about a third of that.

290
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,760
Speaker 1: So there's some there's some tough tough calls coming up.

291
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 1: My fear is not so much Division one, uh, it's

292
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,480
Speaker 1: Division two and three. And the other thing you're talking

293
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 1: about cutting down and travel. I talked to Richard Kreswick,

294
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 1: whose manages company manages around three hundred arenas around the world,

295
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,880
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, travel, face to face travel

296
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 1: now is going to probably be done on zoom now.

297
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 1: Instead of sending coaches around the country to uh recruit

298
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,280
Speaker 1: players and sit in the living rooms and talk to

299
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 1: mom and dad, will they now be doing it via

300
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 1: Zoom as opposed to getting on the airplane and spending

301
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,160
Speaker 1: all the money and hitting the road for a couple

302
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 1: of weeks. And you know that could that be a

303
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 1: way for for colleges to save money in the re

304
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 1: and the recruiting process. That's all kinds of things that

305
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 1: you're thinking about here, Yeah, for sure, and I would hope,

306
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I would like to think that that fewer

307
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 1: schools are going to take the old Dominion Cincinnati route

308
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: and cut programs. I mean, if I was an administrator,

309
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 1: you know, I would like to think that, you know,

310
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,360
Speaker 1: opportunities for athletes are are the last things that would go.

311
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,240
Speaker 1: And if I have to pay my strength coach half

312
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 1: as much, if I have to, you know, as you say,

313
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 1: send my football coach on half as many recruiting trips,

314
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 1: whatever it is, if I have to not, you know,

315
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 1: renovate the concourse in my football stadium. And I get

316
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 1: that some of those things are are directly bringing money in,

317
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 1: but I would like to think that the opportunity for

318
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 1: athletes themselves isn't one of the first things on the

319
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,160
Speaker 1: chopping block here. Michael, the former guest of this program,

320
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: John Curry, who's the athletic director of Wake Forest I

321
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 1: thought Grave gave a great interview over the weekend, mentioned

322
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,120
Speaker 1: two things that I think it's lost in this discussion

323
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 1: a lot. One is the unfortunate fact that the schools

324
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 1: are gonna save a bit of money. Wake Forest, it

325
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 1: sounds like it's eight hundred thousand dollars from the fact

326
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: that there are no summer, no spring sports happening, So

327
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,480
Speaker 1: there is an unfortunate savings that happens there. And then secondly,

328
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 1: you know when schools like Old Dominion and Cincinnati, when

329
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 1: they cut programs, they often point to the amount of

330
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 1: money it takes for scholarships, etcetera for those programs, but

331
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 1: for schools that are not fully enrolled, a lot of

332
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 1: those partial scholarships or teams that have players with those

333
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,640
Speaker 1: scholarships are actually making money for the university. And at

334
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,040
Speaker 1: Wake Forest, he gave his example their athletes paid ten

335
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 1: million dollars out of pocket every year to the school

336
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,880
Speaker 1: for tuition. I don't know how much they're getting in

337
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 1: in scholarship aid. It's probably a little bit more than that.

338
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 1: But I think the fact that a lot of these sports,

339
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 1: and I'm sure the wrestling team at Old Dominion and

340
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 1: the men's soccer team at Cincinnati was like this, a

341
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 1: lot of those people are paying either full ride or

342
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 1: partial ride. There's more money delivered to some of these schools,

343
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people think. I think eventually,

344
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,160
Speaker 1: when we get all past this, those programs are coming back. Now,

345
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 1: if you were you know, highlight in horse shoes, well

346
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 1: it's going to be tough for you because that's that's

347
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,239
Speaker 1: not coming back. But I mean programs like wrestling and

348
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 1: things like that, we're gonna come out on the other

349
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,399
Speaker 1: side of this. Is just right now, we're just in

350
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 1: a devastating free fall. I think I was state athletic

351
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 1: director and you put it into story. Jamie Pollard, he

352
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,199
Speaker 1: said the best. He said, a year without football is

353
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 1: compared to the ice age, and I just I just

354
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 1: can't imagine a year without college football. Yeah, and and financially,

355
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 1: this becomes a very different conversation if we hit that point.

356
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,720
Speaker 1: If we hit a point where there's no college football

357
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 1: this year, or he gets pushed to the spring whatever.

358
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,439
Speaker 1: It looks like the financial constraints that that that athletic

359
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 1: directors are dealing with right now become a very different

360
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 1: conversation when there's no football revenue coming in. So, you know, again,

361
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 1: I think if we get to that point, you know,

362
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: we'll have to rehab this conversation because I think it

363
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,040
Speaker 1: changes a lot of things, but hopefully, I mean, at

364
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: least right now, these schools are all hoping they get

365
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,159
Speaker 1: football in in some capacity, they get some of that

366
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 1: money in, and the game becomes kind of bridging the

367
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 1: gap between this fiscal year and the fiscal year after,

368
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 1: when hopefully things are fully back to normal. This is

369
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast for Boston's own Mike Lynch.

370
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm Michael Barr, along with Evan nov Williams. Join us

371
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday as we explore the big

372
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. You're listening to

373
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business with Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world

374
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 1: and online wherever you get your podcasts.