1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and all the stuff 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: I'll never told your production for iHeartRadio, and today we 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: have a treat for you, a very special treat. So, 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: as you know, our good friend Eves has started a 5 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: new podcast that you've heard Eve's on here doing various 6 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: Female First also some other episodes. You also heard her 7 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: and her co host over on their podcast on Theme 8 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: Katie come on and talk about the importance of black storytelling. 9 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 2: And we really love. 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: Talking to them, we love working with them. They sent 11 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: us a card. We gushed about it in the most 12 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: recent Female First. I saw it today and I was 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: once again overwhelmed by like oh, and so we really 14 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: wanted to highlight that if you haven't gone to listen 15 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: to the show yet, if you haven't subscribed, we wanted 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: to give you a taste of it. 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 2: Because it is really really good. 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: They've done such a good job and they have so 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: many topics that just fit naturally into what we talk about. 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: They're just a if you're interested in this show, you'd 21 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: be interested in this. 22 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 3: Yes, and then you also need to be subscribed for 23 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: when they actually come out with my excited act, Like 24 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 3: I'm already excited for the Cinderella Brandy Cinderella episode, which 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 3: I have been begging them to do and they promised 26 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 3: that they would. 27 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: It was honestly, it was a heartfelt campaign and you succeeded. 28 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure. I can't wait. I'm excited about it too. 29 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: We could do like a group event, we could replay 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: the episode. 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: Let's do this. Yes, I think we can. I think 32 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: we can. 33 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: So you might hear a few because we had a 34 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: hard time picking what episode we wanted to run in 35 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: our feed from on Theme because there's also one about horror, 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: and you know we're all about horror. But today we 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: are going to play an episode called TV fomo irl 38 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: in which Katie and Eves talk with doctor Joy Harden 39 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: Bradford of Therapy for Black Girls. And it's just a 40 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: great fit for the show, and we hope that you 41 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: enjoy it. Please go subscribe And yeah, we'll hopefully get 42 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: to talk more about this later with Eves and Katie, 43 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: but yes, in the meantime, please enjoy. 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 4: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather 45 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 4: Friends Media. 46 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: You are. 47 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 5: Today's episode TV Fomo i RL. You ever be watching 48 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 5: a show and see the characters experiencing something that you 49 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 5: never experienced and be like. 50 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 4: I ain't never had that ever happened to me. 51 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: I'm trying to get see what that be like, right. 52 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 4: Dam Look, yeah, they do live in their best lives 53 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 4: and I'm just over here watching them from my average life. 54 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 5: But I mean, you don't have to just sit and watch. 55 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 5: You could could what you know, use those characters as 56 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 5: a blueprint and do what they're doing. 57 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: So you're saying I should mimic a TV show in. 58 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 5: My real life, I mean when you say it like that, 59 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 5: so how would you say it? Like you never seen 60 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 5: something on TV or a movie or read something in 61 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 5: a book and thought, I want that to happen to me. 62 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure I have. Who hasn't exactly our inspires. 63 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 5: It's so hard not to compare our lives to the 64 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 5: storylines we see on the screen and on the page. 65 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 4: But unlike television and movies, real life doesn't give us 66 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 4: second takes or feed us lines. There are no copy 67 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 4: editors are fact checkers, and our day to day lives. 68 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 5: In this week's episode, we'll look back at the times 69 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 5: we compared our lives to fictional storylines, and we're in 70 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 5: for a rude Awakening. 71 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 4: We'll explore the potential negative impacts of life attempting to 72 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 4: imitate art with doctor Joy Harden Bradford of Therapy for 73 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 4: Black Girls. 74 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 5: I'm Katie, the author of the forthcoming anthology about black 75 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 5: bookstores in the United States, Prose to the People. 76 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 4: And I'm Eves, a writer, a yoga teacher and student, 77 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 4: and a person who loves to be outdoors. 78 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 5: We talk a lot about how stories have impacted us. 79 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 4: Yes, we have an entire podcast dedicated to black storytelling indeed. 80 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 5: Facts, And I've been thinking about the way storytelling can 81 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 5: negatively impact us, like not in a traumatic way, but 82 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 5: kind of in a bum us out, give us fellmo 83 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 5: type of way. 84 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 2: Fear of missing out is real. 85 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 4: But that phrase usually comes up when people are talking 86 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 4: about social media. 87 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, which is its own form of storytelling. Like you 88 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 5: see someone having a great time in Bali, and now 89 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 5: all of a sudden you want to go to Bali. 90 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 5: Can't point to Bali on them, mat, but do you 91 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 5: want a flower bass? 92 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 4: Okay, that's really specific, but it was a self track, gotcha. 93 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 5: But I found myself judging people who, from my perspective, 94 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 5: were copying other people's lives. They saw on social media 95 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 5: then posting it on social media. But after doing so 96 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 5: much needed self reflection, I came to the conclusion that 97 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 5: I do that too. Using social media and more traditional 98 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 5: forms of media, I. 99 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: Can see the vacation thing it is giving. 100 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 4: I'm out being adventurous and you're sitting at home on 101 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 4: the couch like you always do, not going to diva university. 102 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 5: And a little made outfit. 103 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 2: Right. 104 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 5: Wait what it was a love and hip hop reference only. 105 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: The Real Night only show You Are You? 106 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 6: Left You? 107 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 4: I'm loose, I'm floating in the universe. There's nothing but 108 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 4: ether around me and darkness. Hey, I don't be watching 109 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 4: reality TV anyway. So, like, what storylines from TV left 110 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 4: you feeling disappointed? Is it easier for TV shows to 111 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 4: leave you feeling disappointed as compared to social media? 112 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, I think TV shows really do it 113 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 5: for me. Like, sure, the conflict you know they have 114 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 5: is often wrapped up nicely at some point, and they 115 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 5: might have like a special destination episode or whatever. But 116 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 5: generally what you're watching on TV is their quote unquote 117 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 5: normal lives. So I'm like, damn, I want my normal 118 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 5: life to be like that. 119 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because you're really going along for the ride 120 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 4: with them, like you have more time that you spend 121 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 4: with them, And especially for a longer series, every episode 122 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 4: can be this huge special day. There has to be 123 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 4: a lot more filler and just a lot more things 124 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 4: that happen in general. 125 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's like the mundane things. I'd be like, wow, 126 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 5: I can't even have the mundane things. For example, one 127 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 5: thing that I found myself being disappointed by in my 128 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 5: life comparing it to TV series was therapy. 129 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: Hmmm, like talking to a therapist. 130 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I had put it off for a year 131 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 5: or two, but I kept seeing TV therapists work wonders 132 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 5: for their clients, like they were so prepared for their sessions, 133 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 5: deeply interested in seeing their clients improved, and their offices 134 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 5: were cutes, And I was like, Okay, it sounds like 135 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 5: that wasn't your experience, girl, not at all. I'm not 136 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 5: even trying to be funny. I've had multiple therapists confuse 137 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 5: me for other clients. They're like, oh, what about what 138 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 5: about your pet dogs? Miss and Leg? I'm like, what 139 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 5: are you talking about wrong, bitch? 140 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 141 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, Like the therapists I've had were nothing like Molly's therapists. 142 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 7: On Insecure two weeks ago, you said things should be 143 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 7: easier for me as a successful black woman, and another 144 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 7: time you said things should have fallen into place by now. 145 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 7: Is there a certain way you think your life should go? 146 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: Oh? 147 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 6: Well, I mean I do have specific life goals, and 148 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 6: I think that if you work hard than it is 149 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 6: shot to you certain results. 150 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 7: There's a medical term called magical thinking, when we believe 151 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 7: what we want can influence the external world, as opposed 152 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 7: to accepting things as they are. 153 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, I can really tell that the therapist is keyed 154 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 4: into Molly bringing up something that she said two weeks 155 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 4: ago to establish a pattern introducing medical terms. 156 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 5: See and for me, you know, we came into adulthood 157 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 5: when folks were openly embracing therapy. So I had this 158 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 5: notion that I should go look at me. Sounded like Moley, 159 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 5: but it was depictions like this. It made me think 160 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 5: that a therapist would really help me. 161 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 4: I can see how that's disappointing, because therapy is one 162 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 4: of those things that it's hard to understand before you 163 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 4: try it yourself. So these fictional portrayals make sense to 164 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 4: use as an example for someone who hasn't been before 165 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 4: my thoughts exactly. 166 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 5: It's weird to ask someone, you know, like, how's your 167 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 5: therapy session, which I'll talk about, how did it make 168 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 5: you feel? 169 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 2: I've been wanted to though, honestly, but it is a little. 170 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 6: Weird, you know, just a little bit. 171 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 5: And because of the nature of therapy, when it's therapist 172 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 5: shows up in a show, they're mostly there to help 173 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 5: a main character with a personal conundrum or reach an epiphany, 174 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 5: and you were. 175 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 2: Hoping you'd find a therapist who do the same for you. 176 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 5: Yes, girl, main character energy, But alas life isn't a story, 177 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 5: and I am not a character. I am a nonfictional person. 178 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 5: Say it out loud, I'm a nonfictional person. So how 179 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 5: did you handle that disappointment with your therapist? Did you 180 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 5: shop around? 181 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 4: No? 182 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 5: I stop seeing my therapists for reasons related more to 183 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 5: capitalism and America's messed up healthcare system. I mean, I 184 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 5: thought about getting another one, but the thought of having 185 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 5: to let someone else get to know me and my 186 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,119 Speaker 5: issues was too exhausting. 187 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: What about you. 188 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 5: Do you have a life imitating art moment? 189 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 7: Yeah? 190 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: I do, for sure. 191 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 4: I mean, speaking of insecure, one thing that I see 192 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 4: on TV a lot that just has not been my 193 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 4: experience is the large but somehow close knit friend group. 194 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 4: You know, sometimes it's a pretty big group, like six people, 195 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 4: and sometimes there's like a base of three or four 196 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 4: people and then a concentric circle around that Kora folks. 197 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 2: But either way, the group of friends is close. 198 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 4: I mean they all know each other super well and 199 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 4: have for a while, and a lot of instances they 200 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 4: can hit each other up in the week hours of 201 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 4: the morning about anything. 202 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: They're down for last minute plans. 203 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 4: They go on vacations together, they move cities, countries and 204 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 4: stay friends. And they've been doing stuff like having immediate 205 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 4: urgent group calls about drama that's going down in that 206 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 4: very moment, and also the drama a lot of times 207 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 4: isn't even that urgent, and they still be picking up 208 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 4: the phone. They're always debriefing and whatnot. Like in this 209 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 4: clip from twenties, this is the first attament I reupholstered 210 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 4: for you. 211 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: Now it's ruined. 212 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, who are you calling Tucks so we can come 213 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 6: help us pack up your We aren't packing up, okay, 214 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 6: we are going to Centerspiel. I am ready to get 215 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 6: my life from all about e. 216 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 5: You just got evicted and you trying to go sit 217 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 5: on the grass and watch a movie. 218 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 4: Yes, or like living single girlfriends Harlem, et cetera. The 219 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 4: examples of this go on where there are friend groups 220 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 4: that are relatively large but still very close knit. 221 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 7: Yeah. 222 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 5: I think something that ours both have in common is 223 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 5: like wanting to be like really known by somebody and feeling. 224 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: Like, is this the therapist? 225 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 5: Okay, well tell me what Joe Daddy is. But I mean, 226 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 5: as someone who's known you for a long time, I'm 227 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 5: surprised that this was your example because I see you 228 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 5: as having that. I'm like, yeah, like you know, you 229 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 5: have your college friends and y'all be having all joint 230 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 5: birthday parties and going out the country together, and I'm like, wait, 231 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 5: what's going on? 232 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: I thought that was I thought that would it was. 233 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 5: So it's interesting that you, like don't experience it that way. 234 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 2: I really don't. 235 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 4: I don't because I guess when I see it. And 236 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 4: maybe that is the whole the fact that a TV 237 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 4: show has a whole mythology around it and as an 238 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 4: industry created to make these specific moments look like this. 239 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 4: But to me, it feels like the friend groups they 240 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 4: all mesh in a way differently than my friend groups MESH. 241 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 4: I feel like everything is segmented for me, Like I 242 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 4: feel like this, Yeah, I have these friends that I 243 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 4: do this thing with, and I have these friends over 244 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 4: here who I do this with. But for me, in shows, 245 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 4: it feels like those friend groups. Every dotty crisscross is 246 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 4: like a big web and everything meets in the center. 247 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 4: And also I also think like the logistics work differently 248 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 4: in the shows. I think this is like I got 249 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 4: to schedule this. I've been trying for a month to 250 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 4: get with these two friends at the same time and 251 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,479 Speaker 4: it hasn't worked out because our schedules are very misaligned. 252 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't be group calling at all now. 253 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 4: Ye, Like there's just a level of synergy in kinship 254 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 4: that I don't feel like I have in the same 255 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 4: way that I see in shows. It feels very flowery 256 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: and it feels very poetic in shows and ways that 257 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 4: it doesn't feel like in my life. And so I 258 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 4: don't want to make it seem like I don't have 259 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 4: people I love in my life and then I'm close 260 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 4: to it just doesn't work the same way that I've 261 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 4: seen it shows, and I find myself like being like. 262 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 2: That looks really nice. 263 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like you don't see the Hey can you 264 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 5: can you come out here? 265 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: Oh no, Like you. 266 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 5: Don't see that back and forth like that, all the 267 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 5: logistics of having that prime group and all that meeting 268 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 5: of like it's like, oh, I know the part you 269 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 5: happen to be at the park. 270 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 4: Right, it seems so spontaneous and if everything's fresh and new, 271 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 4: it's breezy. 272 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 5: Yes, it's a good way to put it. 273 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 2: It's a very easy. 274 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 4: And of course shows are meant to be a spectacle, 275 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 4: so TV storytellers want our eyes to be glued to 276 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 4: the screen. Also, characters in their relationships they have to 277 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 4: have some kind of spice and intrigue, so there has 278 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 4: to be exposition, and they have to build a stories world. 279 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 4: But dang, even when we know what we're watching is 280 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 4: fiction and the storytellers are doing their damnedest to suspend 281 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 4: our disbelief it, it can be hard not to feel 282 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 4: some longing for the lifestyles that you see. And there's 283 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 4: psychological research around how people interact and bond with the 284 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 4: fictional characters that they become attached to. In a twenty 285 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 4: twelve study, researchers from Ohio State University use the term 286 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 4: quote experience taking to describe the actions of readers who 287 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 4: take on the thoughts, beliefs, and emotions of fictional characters. 288 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 4: Sometimes we do actually let the attitudes and actions of 289 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 4: fictional characters influence our real life decisions. And like for me, 290 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 4: I see in these fictional friend groups that everything isn't 291 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 4: always sweet. They make mistakes, get in fights, and they 292 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 4: even break up, but still they share this deep kinship 293 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 4: that even from the time I was a child, I 294 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 4: think I imagine all adults having. 295 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: But as an adult now it doesn't feel like that. 296 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 4: And ooh, now that I think about it, there is 297 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 4: a social media trap here too. 298 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: Black girl friend group travel is such a. 299 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 4: Thing, be making it look all luxurious and drama free 300 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 4: in the feed, acting like they have one and a 301 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 4: half fights every day, but still giving us fomo. 302 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 5: Yes, like speaking of like the big friend group, Like 303 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 5: I've never been a part of one, but I've been 304 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 5: like kind of those like special guest characters and like, oh, 305 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 5: they come in for this episode the cameo, Yeah, it's giving, cameo, 306 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 5: it's giving. We invited you because we did not have 307 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 5: enough people and we needed to split this trip up better. 308 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 5: But yeah, like being one the outside of the group 309 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 5: but still being with them. You see, like this isn't 310 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 5: even fun. Like it's fun on social media, but like 311 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 5: being with y'all is not even fun. So like, why 312 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 5: was I tripping off this? 313 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 4: Also seeing that from a sober perspective, when I would 314 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 4: imagine other everybody's not sober in those groups around. 315 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely, Yeah, I need to start drinking and doing drugs. Yeah, 316 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 5: be having fun. 317 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: It's not gonna help. It's not gonna help. 318 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 5: I have a sneak suspicion that we're not the only 319 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 5: ones who have felt dejected when our life and experiences 320 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 5: didn't live up to the characters we watch every week. 321 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 5: So I wanted to bring in an expert to give 322 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 5: us some insight on why we compare ourselves to fictional people, 323 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 5: how that's impacting us, and some reframing techniques we might 324 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 5: find helpful. 325 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 4: When you say things like reframing techniques, it starts to 326 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 4: make me feel like I really am in a therapy 327 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 4: session already. 328 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 5: Not quite, but we are going to be chatting with 329 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 5: doctor Joy from Therapy for Black Girls right after the break. 330 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 6: Hey, y'all, I'm doctor joy Hard and Branford. I'm a 331 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 6: psychologist in Atlanta and also the founder of Therapy for 332 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 6: Black Girls. I'm also the author of Sisterhood Heals, The 333 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 6: Transformative Power of Healing in Community. 334 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 5: So, you know, we're watching TV, we're watching movies, even 335 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 5: reading books, and we see something or like we want 336 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 5: this to happen in our lives. Example was therapist. I 337 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 5: watched Insecure, and you remember Molly's therapist. She was so good, 338 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 5: her office was so cute, she had all the great 339 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 5: insights for Molly and listened to her and remember everything 340 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 5: from last session, didn't mix her up with different clients. 341 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 5: And I was like, I need to go to therapy 342 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 5: and that's what my therapist is going to be like. 343 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 5: And it just did not turn out like that, and 344 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 5: I was very disappointed. 345 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 6: Yeah, So I actually thought that Molly's therapist was a 346 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 6: good depiction of what therapy actually looks like, because I 347 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 6: do feel like a lot of times television gets therapy wrong. 348 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 6: Most often I see like very inappropriate boundaries between therapists 349 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 6: and clients, which typically doesn't happen in real life. But 350 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 6: I actually thought Molly's therapist in terms of like not 351 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 6: getting her mixed up and like tracking across sessions, Like 352 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 6: I feel like that's kind of like the bare minimum. 353 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 6: So I'm kind of sad to hear that that did 354 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 6: not match up with your reality. 355 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was too, honestly, doctor Joy when I heard 356 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 4: Katie told me this. I mean, I know about her 357 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 4: some of the experiences she's had in therapy, so I 358 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 4: feel like that soundlike a lot of people. You know, 359 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 4: Katie and I are close enough for her to tell me, like, 360 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 4: let me in on her experiences that she's had with therapists. 361 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: But I was thinking at you, I was like, yeah, like, 362 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: isn't that what they're supposed to do, like the least 363 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: of what they're supposed to do. So I'm right there 364 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 2: with you. 365 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 5: Oh, I was like, well, Molly just had the best 366 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 5: therapist ever. 367 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 4: And that's valid coming from your perspective because that's the 368 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 4: experience that you've had. Yeah yeah, but yeah. 369 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: So so for me, it wasn't about therapy. For me. 370 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 4: The thing that I saw not lining up with expectations 371 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 4: and my reality when I was watching television was friend groups. 372 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 4: For me, one of the things that I saw expectation of, 373 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 4: like looking at these really lovely like relationships that these 374 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 4: people had in these shows that are specifically black friend groups. 375 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 4: I found that I didn't have that experience in real life. 376 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 4: I found myself like, I don't want that. That seems 377 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 4: really nice, so there's some longing for it. 378 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 6: Yeah, I love that you shared that because I feel 379 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 6: like I have very I mean, I'm clearly in my 380 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 6: sisterhood bag right now, right because I'm all in the 381 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 6: celebration of sisterhood heels. But I find that interesting that 382 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 6: we're also celebrating the thirtieth anniversary of living single this year, 383 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 6: and I feel like that is one of those shows 384 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 6: that a lot of sisters go back to and say like, oh, 385 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 6: this is what I thought like friends and friend groups 386 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 6: were going to be like, and then the reality of 387 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 6: it does not match. And I think we have to 388 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 6: think about, you know, like what was happening in the 389 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 6: world thirty years ago that is very different from now. Right, 390 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 6: So there weren't cell phones, or if there were, like 391 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 6: they weren't readily available like we have them now. People 392 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 6: I think did maybe live in closer proximity to one another, 393 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 6: and it just feels like they didn't have as many 394 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 6: things that competed for their interest in time the way 395 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 6: that we do now. And so when you see you know, 396 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 6: all of them able to kind of u go together 397 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 6: for breakfast, it feels like they had like breakfast a 398 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 6: lot together on Living Single, which I think is cute, 399 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 6: but you know, like be able to meet each other 400 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 6: for breakfast before they go to work, and you know, 401 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 6: all of that stuff like that doesn't take into consideration, 402 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 6: like a commute and dropping kids off for daycare and 403 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 6: like all of these things that I think are just 404 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 6: very different about the world that we find ourselves in now. 405 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 6: And I'm not surprised to hear that you long for that. 406 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 6: And I do think that there are some pieces of 407 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 6: what we see in media on television that we can 408 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 6: think about, like, Okay, maybe we can't have like a 409 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 6: Brownstone where all of our best friends live, but what 410 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 6: pieces of this can I model and you know, kind 411 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 6: of take into my own life and kind of have 412 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 6: some semblance of that That kind of meets that need 413 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 6: for me, because I just think that there's so much 414 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 6: competing for our attention right now, right Like they didn't 415 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 6: have Instagram back in living single days, right and so 416 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 6: you know, the time we're spending scrolling on Instagram and 417 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 6: playing on TikTok, like could you be having a group 418 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 6: chat with your girls? 419 00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 7: You know? 420 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 6: And I just think that there are so many things 421 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 6: that do distract us that it is good to be 422 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 6: able to kind of put all of that away and 423 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 6: make time to really intentionally connect with one another. 424 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 5: And it sounds also when you said, look at what 425 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 5: aspects that you could have, you know, you could have 426 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 5: breakfast together sometimes, so it sounds like you're saying it's 427 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 5: not pathological to be looking at these examples and wanting 428 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 5: some of that. 429 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. 430 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 6: I mean that's why we resonate with certain shows, right 431 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 6: is because they feel super realistic. But I think you 432 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 6: also have to remember that there's a whole writing team 433 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 6: and lots of editing and all of these things that 434 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 6: go into making these shows that we love. But we 435 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 6: also love these shows because they feel very realistic to us. 436 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 6: They feel like things that we could achieve in some ways. 437 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 6: I think we just have to be careful not to, 438 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 6: you know, kind of compare our real life to something 439 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 6: that has a whole writing room in multiple editors. 440 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 5: Do you have an example of something that you saw 441 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 5: in storytelling that you kind of were like, yeah, it 442 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 5: didn't really play out like that in my real life. 443 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 6: Oh you know, I feel like motherhood would have to 444 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 6: be that for me. And I don't think I can 445 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 6: point to any one like instance or you know, depiction, 446 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 6: but I just feel like you I saw in media, 447 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 6: like lots of stories around like how hard it is 448 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 6: to kind of you know, bring children into the family, 449 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 6: and how priorities shifting all of these things. In the 450 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 6: real life version of that is like so much more 451 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 6: difficult than I think anything that I ever saw depicted 452 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 6: in media. 453 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 5: Right, And I imagine like because being a mother is 454 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 5: twenty four seven and we get maybe like thirty minutes 455 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 5: to an hour with motherhoods depicted on the screen. Or 456 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 5: you know, if a book takes you ten hours to 457 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 5: read over the course of the book, that really does 458 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 5: not compare to what you're doing with your kids day 459 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 5: in and day out. So I can see how that 460 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 5: depiction is like super truncated and maybe only shows like 461 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 5: the highlights or maybe like some very low lights, but 462 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 5: not really all the stuff in between. But how do 463 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 5: you think I think social media has impacted our expectations? 464 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 5: Have you seen that within the Therapy for Black Girls 465 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 5: group or talking to people while you've been on tour. 466 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 6: Mm hmmm, yeah, I mean, and you know, I think 467 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 6: that social media as a different level of nuance to 468 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 6: this conversation because while we are able to recognize like 469 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 6: Insecure and living single and like the things that we 470 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 6: watch on TV as entertainment, I don't think that we 471 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 6: always view like what we're watching on social media as entertainment, 472 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 6: and a lot of it actually is meant for entertainment, 473 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 6: but because they look like real people like us, then 474 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 6: we get caught up in comparing, like our vacation to 475 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 6: the vacation they took in Bali, right, and how that 476 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 6: doesn't match up, and then we're really frustrated and said that, like, 477 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 6: our pictures don't look like the ones we saw this 478 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 6: influencer who has a team of photographers and like all 479 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 6: of these things. Like, I think we do do more 480 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 6: comparing ourselves to what we see on social media than 481 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 6: we even do to Insecure, because we clearly know that 482 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 6: those are characters. And so I think that this is 483 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 6: something that has come up a lot in the therapy 484 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 6: for Black Girls community just around people like having to 485 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 6: take breaks from social media because they find themselves like 486 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 6: doing too much comparison, or it's really hard to kind 487 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 6: of stay focused on whatever your journey is, whether that 488 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 6: be healing or motherhood or entrepreneurship, because you're always paying 489 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 6: attention to like other people's shiny objects, right So, like, oh, 490 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 6: they launched this course, so now do I need a course? 491 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 6: Or oh, look at how beautiful their family portraits are 492 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 6: in mine don't look like that. Like, I just feel 493 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 6: like social media does it elicits a lot of these 494 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 6: very strong reactions from people, and I don't think they 495 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 6: always recognize like what's going on because you think it 496 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 6: is you kind of keeping in touch with friends, right 497 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 6: like when you think about like some of these parasocial relationships, 498 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 6: right Like, there's a lot of money to be made 499 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 6: by us feeling like we have these you know, cousin 500 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 6: in my head kind of relationship with people that we 501 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 6: follow on Instagram. But in a lot of ways, that 502 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 6: can be unhealthy because you are setting yourself up and 503 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 6: trying to compare yourself to something that is like an 504 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 6: idealized version of life as opposed to like the basic 505 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 6: day to day version of life that most of us 506 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 6: are actually living. 507 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: We'll be back with doctor Joy after the. 508 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 4: Break, So if we're having these moments where we're looking 509 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 4: at a television show and we're saying that our reality 510 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 4: doesn't match up to it, but we want them to 511 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 4: be more in alignment. What are ways that we can 512 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 4: tell that in ourselves. Okay, that's normal for us to do. 513 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 4: There are specific psychological reasons while we're responding this way, 514 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 4: and we are able to move through. 515 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 2: Life still like in a healthy, normal. 516 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 6: Way till anytime things kind of veer off course, where 517 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 6: you are finding disturbances in your sleep, disturbances in your appetite, 518 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 6: you are wanting to kind of be less engaged with 519 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 6: things that you normally were really excited about. Like, I 520 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 6: think all of those are signs that like something is 521 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 6: off and you need to kind of pay attention to 522 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 6: like what has happened. I also think you have to 523 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 6: be careful. And I think we kind of joke about this, 524 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 6: but I do know that there are extremes for any circumstance, Right, 525 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 6: we kind of joke about, you know, like, oh, what 526 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 6: do I do now that my favorite show is no 527 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 6: longer on the air and I need a support group 528 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 6: and you know, like all of these things, And I 529 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 6: think like some of that is normal. Like, you know, 530 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 6: I think a lot of us were sad when Insecure 531 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 6: ended because we loved it and like wanted to spend 532 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 6: Sunday nights with them. But if you find yourself staying 533 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 6: in that space for too long, I do think that 534 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 6: that is an indication that, like something, there's some need 535 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 6: that's not being met that you were addressing through this show. 536 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 6: Because it's normal to kind of have, you know, parasocial 537 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 6: relationships and attachments to characters, but they are characters, right, 538 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 6: And so I think when you find yourself over identifying 539 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 6: with a particular fantasy world or some disturbed in sleep, 540 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 6: or you're kind of spending too much time kind of 541 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 6: being obsessed around things that happened on the show, and 542 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 6: I do think that that is an indication that, you know, hey, 543 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 6: what's going on here? Like are you trying to avoid 544 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 6: something else in your real life by being preoccupied with 545 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 6: this fantasy world that somebody else created? 546 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 5: Speaking of being too enthralled in these shows, do you 547 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 5: have any tips for folks who are struggling with managing 548 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 5: expectations for like grounding themselves in reality, any practices that 549 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 5: you would recommend. 550 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 6: Yeah, So, I actually think journaling is an excellent tool 551 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 6: for lots of these kinds of things, because I think 552 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 6: when you can write things down or talk them through, 553 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 6: like if you want to do voice notes and really 554 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 6: kind of get at like what is motivating your behavior, 555 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 6: I think that that unveils a lot for us. Right, So, 556 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 6: if you're finding yourself kind of staying with a particular storyline, 557 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 6: or you feel like the lines are blurring between reality 558 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 6: and fantasy world, like, well, what is it that makes 559 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 6: me want to spend time with these characters? And where 560 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 6: might that be missing in my own life? And what 561 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 6: kinds of things can I do to get more of that? 562 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 6: You know, kind of like our earlier conversations of if 563 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 6: you're missing this kind of thing, this living single vibe, 564 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 6: like what pieces of that can you bring into your 565 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 6: own life? And I think journaling is an excellent way 566 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 6: to kind of get at some of those questions and 567 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 6: to really be able to check in with yourself to 568 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 6: see where there may be, you know, kind of holes 569 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 6: in your reality. I also think I have to, of 570 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 6: course advocate for therapy, because I think talking with a 571 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 6: therapist about some of these concerns can be really helpful. 572 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 6: And I think if you're somebody who finds yourself like 573 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 6: struggling with like, Okay, I'm feeling very overidentified with a character, 574 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 6: or you know, I'm sticking with these story longs longer 575 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 6: than I think I should. It may feel kind of 576 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 6: weird to say that to like a friend, but you know, 577 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 6: in a therapist's office, like you know, there is no 578 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 6: weird thing, Like there's nothing that you can't go to 579 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 6: a therapist with, and so it may feel safer to 580 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 6: be able to kind of talk through whatever it is 581 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 6: that you're feeling with a therapist as opposed to somebody 582 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 6: who is in your life on a more regular basis. 583 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 5: And I think one of the things that is similar 584 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 5: to me in Eve's expectations versus reality is just wanting 585 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 5: to be known by somebody, Like I want my therapist 586 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 5: to know me. She wants to have that group of 587 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 5: friends that knows her. And so one thing that I 588 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 5: really liked from your book is doing that self assessment 589 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 5: and sisterhood assessment. So if someone's struggling with, oh, like 590 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 5: I wanted to have this like big friend group or 591 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 5: just like a really good girlfriend and they're not feeling that, like, 592 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 5: take that assessment, say like, Okay, and or do I 593 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 5: have people in my life that I'm just kind of 594 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 5: overlooking that actually do pour into me and how am 595 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 5: I as a friend? Because you know, it needs to 596 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 5: have that reciprocation. So that's one thing that I was like, oh, 597 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 5: doctor Joy read me, but it was helpful after I 598 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 5: was mad at you for a little bit. 599 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 6: Anger is a totally totally appropriate response to have. And 600 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 6: you know, I really want to stay there for a moment, Katie, 601 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 6: because this feeling of being known by somebody and really 602 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 6: seen for all of who we are is incredibly powerful. 603 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 6: And I think that that is one of the strengths 604 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 6: that black women have right is being able to kind 605 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 6: of hold space and like our friends and our girls 606 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 6: can kind of see us even when we don't want 607 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 6: to admit that thing to ourselves. And I don't think 608 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 6: that there's anything wrong with that. I think a lot 609 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 6: of times what I'm seeing now is people kind of 610 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 6: wanting to be unbothered, so to speak, and like, oh, 611 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 6: it's okay if like people don't pay attention to me, 612 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 6: but actually it's not like we're humans, We're not robots, 613 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 6: and so this longing to be known and really seen 614 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 6: by people is something that is totally appropriate, and I 615 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 6: think it's beautiful when we can cultivate spaces where we 616 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 6: can do that for one another. It's really important. 617 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 5: Now it's time for my favorite segment of the show, 618 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 5: my favorite and only segment of our show, roll credits, 619 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 5: where we give credit to a person, place, or thing, 620 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 5: and we have our esteemed guests, Doctor Joy, and we 621 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 5: will let her kick it off. Who are what are 622 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 5: you giving credit to this week? Doctor Joy? 623 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 4: Oh? 624 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 6: I think I will give credit to one of my 625 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 6: favorite restaurants here in Atlanta. It's a taco place called 626 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 6: tacoiadell Soul. Okay, It's my favorite favorite place, favorite caso 627 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 6: in Atlanta for sure. And when I think about that, 628 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 6: so it is kind of like a tradition for my family, 629 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 6: like we are typically there weekly, and when I think about, 630 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 6: like throughout the pandemic, like that was the thing that 631 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 6: kind of felt like a constant. So even when we 632 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 6: couldn't go in restaurants to eat, we would like do 633 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 6: us to go order And it just feels like this 634 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 6: thing that has kind of been like a grounding space 635 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 6: for me and my family. So I think that would 636 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 6: be my credit would be tacari Adel soul. 637 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 5: Okay, shout out that keso. 638 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 2: Tacos last night. 639 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 6: I love it. 640 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 5: What about you, Eves. 641 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: Let's see. I would. 642 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 4: Like to give credit to being barefoot outside specifically. Kenny 643 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 4: laughs at me every time I give credit to something. 644 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 2: I know it seems like it's out of left field, 645 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 2: but it's not a promise. I just love being barefoot. 646 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 4: I have been wanting to be barefoot a lot more lately, 647 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 4: like I always do. And I think you know that, 648 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 4: but it feels really good. It feels grounding. Speaking of grounding, 649 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 4: I don't know. Yeah, that's it. That's all I have 650 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 4: to say about it. 651 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 5: Period. I would like to give credit to the seasons. 652 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,719 Speaker 5: I feel like a little twinge of fall in the 653 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 5: air and I was like, Oh, we're going into a 654 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 5: different season. And I was like, oh, I'm going into 655 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 5: a different season of my life. 656 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: How fitting? 657 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 5: So like literal seasons and like seasons of our lives, 658 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 5: And like I'm the type of person who like gets 659 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 5: really emotional when there's like a very concrete change, like 660 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 5: if there's like a gradation or like a funeral, it's 661 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 5: like things are different now. And I feel like the 662 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 5: seasons are kind of like a way to mark that 663 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 5: or like nature's way of marking that. So I want 664 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 5: to give credit. 665 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 2: To the seasons. 666 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 5: It makes you super like introspective every time I go 667 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 5: through a season, changing whether it's just summer to fall 668 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 5: or life stuff. Yeah, and doctor Joy, how can people 669 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 5: keep up with you? How can they listen to you 670 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 5: read your book all those good things? 671 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, so you can find me at Hello, doctor Joy 672 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 6: across all the social media platforms. I would love for 673 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 6: you to grab a copy of Sisterhood Heels at Sisterhoodheels 674 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 6: dot com or your favorite local bookstore and definitely share 675 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 6: your thoughts with me because I love hearing how people 676 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 6: are like going to their group chats with the conversation 677 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 6: around Sister at Heels. So definitely let me know your 678 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 6: thoughts once you grab it, and then you can check 679 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 6: out the podcast Therapy for Black Girls. New episodes come 680 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 6: out every Wednesday morning and you can find all of 681 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 6: that at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. 682 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 5: So thank you, so so much, thank you. 683 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 6: I appreciate y'all having me, of course. 684 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: So that's that. On that, We'll be back next episode. 685 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 5: See You. 686 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 4: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. 687 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 4: This episode was written by Eves, jeffco and Katie Mitchell. 688 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 4: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. 689 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 2: Follow us on. 690 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 4: Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us an 691 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 4: email at hello at on Theme dot Show. For more 692 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 4: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or 693 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,240 Speaker 4: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.