WEBVTT - Devon | Betrayal Weekly

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, everyone, we have some exciting news to share. ABC

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<v Speaker 1>News Studios has turned Caroline Brega's story from Betrayal season

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<v Speaker 1>four into a docuseriies. You'll get to meet the people involved,

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<v Speaker 1>You'll hear from people who have never spoken before, and

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<v Speaker 1>you get to see where this story took place. We

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<v Speaker 1>are so proud and excited to share it with you all.

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<v Speaker 1>Stream Betrayal Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or Hulu for

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<v Speaker 1>Disney Plus.

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<v Speaker 2>Looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship, it's

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<v Speaker 2>almost like watching a bad horror film where the protagonist

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<v Speaker 2>is like walking through the house being like hello, Hello,

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<v Speaker 2>is anyone here, and you're like screaming at the screen.

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<v Speaker 2>They're right behind you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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<v Speaker 1>the people we trust the most, receptions that change everything

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<v Speaker 1>really quick. Before we get into the episode, I have

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<v Speaker 1>a small favor to ask you. If you're enjoying listening

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<v Speaker 1>to the trial, please take a second to hit the

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<v Speaker 1>We read all the comments and your voices help our

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<v Speaker 1>say thank you for listening and helping us grow. Also,

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<v Speaker 1>if you went behind the scenes content or resources, follow

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<v Speaker 1>Andre gutting All right, onto the show. Devin grew up

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<v Speaker 1>in the Pacific Northwest. Her family's house was surrounded by

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<v Speaker 1>five acres of land, which made for a perfect playground

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<v Speaker 1>for Devin and her older sister.

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<v Speaker 2>We would just disappear into the wilds of our backyard

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<v Speaker 2>for hours playing and come in when we heard a

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<v Speaker 2>bell to have a snack.

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<v Speaker 1>Her family had a farm complete with horses, chickens, and lamas.

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<v Speaker 2>You could sell individual lamas for tens of thousands of dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>and so my mom started a lama business for income.

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<v Speaker 2>They would put me in a lama auction with the

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<v Speaker 2>lama to show how gentle it was, and I would

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<v Speaker 2>be leading this large animal around as a very small

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<v Speaker 2>child and just smiling. And I still remember the auctioneer

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<v Speaker 2>being like, I'm not I'll look at the big smile

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<v Speaker 2>on that child, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Devin and her sister were homeschooled all through elementary and

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<v Speaker 1>middle school. When she started ninth grade, her parents enrolled

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<v Speaker 1>her in their town's public high school.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember walking in and just beaming in every single

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<v Speaker 2>person I saw. I think people thought something was wrong

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<v Speaker 2>with me, but I was just so happy to be

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<v Speaker 2>around so many people, and I thrived In high school.

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<v Speaker 1>She always participated in class discussions, but there was one

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<v Speaker 1>day in history class that felt different.

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<v Speaker 2>We were having a debate about the Supreme Court case

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<v Speaker 2>between the Boy Scouts of America and Dale.

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<v Speaker 1>Boy Scouts of America versus Dale was a Supreme Court

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<v Speaker 1>case in two thousand. The Boy Scouts revoked James Dale's

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<v Speaker 1>membership when they found out he was gay.

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<v Speaker 2>This was like big news at the time, and our

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<v Speaker 2>history teacher had us set up a debate to argue

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<v Speaker 2>for having gay people in Boy Scouts and against having

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<v Speaker 2>gay people in Boy Scouts. And I was the only

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<v Speaker 2>one in a class of thirty kids that was arguing

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<v Speaker 2>for gay people to be allowed to be in the

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<v Speaker 2>Boy Scouts.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't an environment where Devin could comfortably explore who

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<v Speaker 1>she was. The message from her high school was clear,

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<v Speaker 1>fit in or be left behind.

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<v Speaker 2>There were two gay people that I knew in high

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<v Speaker 2>school and both left because it was such a homophobic environment.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I was staying safe by winning people over

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<v Speaker 2>and not truly being my full self.

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<v Speaker 1>After high school, Devin started college in a city a

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<v Speaker 1>few hours away. For the first time, she was surrounded

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<v Speaker 1>by people that cared about the same things she did.

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<v Speaker 2>I got deeply involved in women and gender studies, and

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<v Speaker 2>I ran the women's resource center with my best friend

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<v Speaker 2>at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Devin finally felt comfortable enough to explore who she was

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<v Speaker 1>and what she wanted. She realized that she was queer.

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<v Speaker 2>I started exclusively dating women when I was a sophomore.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't a big deal. My family was pretty accepting

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<v Speaker 2>of it, which was pretty great.

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<v Speaker 1>A few years after college, Devin moved to the Bay Area.

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<v Speaker 1>She got a job working in mental health services, but

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<v Speaker 1>outside of work, she didn't know anyone. She spent her

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<v Speaker 1>weekends by herself. It was a lonely start.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just alone in this new city with no friends,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just remember scrapbook and day drinking until I

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<v Speaker 2>got too lonely and needed to see other people, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I would go through store shopping or grocery shopping.

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<v Speaker 1>Eventually, she decided she needed to venture outside her comfort zone.

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<v Speaker 1>She was ready to put herself out there. She downloaded

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<v Speaker 1>the dating app okay Cupid, and soon she had plans

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<v Speaker 1>to meet up with the girl she met on the

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<v Speaker 1>app named Kai.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember walking up and seeing her, and I already

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<v Speaker 2>thought she was cute and met her by her motorcycle,

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<v Speaker 2>and I thought that was sexy that she drove motorcycle.

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<v Speaker 2>And she had this kind of strong physique which I

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<v Speaker 2>found very attractive. Had short hair, a lot of piercings,

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<v Speaker 2>some tattoos, and there was a mysterious vibe to her.

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<v Speaker 1>Devin and Kai went on a long walk, talking the

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<v Speaker 1>whole time. They weren't ready for the day to end.

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<v Speaker 2>We ended up going into a bar and sitting side

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<v Speaker 2>by side and talking. The first date was six hours.

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<v Speaker 1>Devin's the kind of person who has always kept a journal,

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<v Speaker 1>and she has kept them to this day. She'll be

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<v Speaker 1>reading excerpts from them throughout this episode. Here's what she

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<v Speaker 1>wrote after her first date with Kai.

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<v Speaker 2>She seems smart, very accomplished, intimidatingly so, super easy to

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<v Speaker 2>be around, very dynamic, a good listener, sexy, thoughtful, and

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<v Speaker 2>I found myself constantly laughing. She easily has the tools

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<v Speaker 2>to steal many a girl's heart.

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<v Speaker 1>After their date, Kai sent Devin a text.

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<v Speaker 2>Saying that she loved my energy and sharing space with

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<v Speaker 2>me very West Coast thing to say to somebody.

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<v Speaker 1>Devin couldn't stop thinking of about Kai.

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to get myself to focus on other things,

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<v Speaker 2>but I was so quickly infatuated.

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<v Speaker 1>They went on two more dates that month.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought that pace was really healthy. I thought that

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<v Speaker 2>was a sign that we weren't moving quickly, and this

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<v Speaker 2>was developing in a really methodical, high trust way.

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<v Speaker 1>Spending time with Kai was always an adventure.

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<v Speaker 2>We started kind of trapesing around the city that was beautiful,

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<v Speaker 2>riding her motorcycle everywhere, which was very special and fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Soon Kai invited Devin over to her place.

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<v Speaker 2>The apartment was up on this big hill that had

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<v Speaker 2>a gorgeous view, and we had a really good time.

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<v Speaker 2>And she had a roommate named Melissa, and she said

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<v Speaker 2>that Melissa was also her best friend.

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<v Speaker 1>Kai had a lot of different hobbies.

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<v Speaker 2>She was in school for engineering, and I thought that

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<v Speaker 2>that was really neat. She worked at a windsurfing shop,

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<v Speaker 2>so she actually taught kaiing and windsurfing.

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<v Speaker 1>The more she saw of Kai's life, the more she

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<v Speaker 1>admired her.

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<v Speaker 2>I loved how she spoke about her friends. She was

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<v Speaker 2>very fun loving. She just seemed like she was really

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<v Speaker 2>engaged and involved in building a life that she loved,

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<v Speaker 2>and I admired that and I wanted to do that too.

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<v Speaker 1>Kai invited Devin into the life she built.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I had moved there and didn't have any friends,

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<v Speaker 2>She was also access to a community. All of her

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<v Speaker 2>friends were wonderful, and I also saw that as a

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<v Speaker 2>really positive sign. They were just these awesome, honest, intelligent,

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<v Speaker 2>dedicated people who were all passionate about different things, and

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<v Speaker 2>I loved her friends.

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<v Speaker 1>The only person Kai seemed to have a tense relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with was her roommate, Melissa. Kai told Devin.

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<v Speaker 2>They used to be really close, but that Melissa had

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<v Speaker 2>let her down in some really significant ways. So even

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<v Speaker 2>though I never met Melissa, I was at their apartment

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<v Speaker 2>a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>They were all in their mid twenties. Almost everyone they

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<v Speaker 1>knew lived with roommates and had experience with some kind

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<v Speaker 1>of roommate drama, so Devin understood and sympathized with Kai.

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<v Speaker 1>A few months after their first date, Devin and Kai

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<v Speaker 1>decided they wanted to see each other exclusively. That night,

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<v Speaker 1>Devin wrote in her journal.

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<v Speaker 2>The terms outlined are that we were only having sex

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<v Speaker 2>with each other, and if anything happens with someone else,

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<v Speaker 2>we let the other know. So we hadn't decided that

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<v Speaker 2>we were girlfriends yet, but we had decided that we

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<v Speaker 2>were exclusively having sex with one another.

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<v Speaker 1>Devin noticed that Kai kept talking about different girls she

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<v Speaker 1>dated in the past. It made Devin feel a little jealous,

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<v Speaker 1>so she brought it up to Kai.

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<v Speaker 2>And Kai said, the reason I bring up exce's is

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<v Speaker 2>to examine what I learned from those relationships. And I

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<v Speaker 2>took that really well, because I'm somebody who always learns

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<v Speaker 2>and examines my own behavior, and so I actually thought

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<v Speaker 2>that that was really attractive that she was bringing it

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<v Speaker 2>up to see what she could learn from it.

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<v Speaker 1>Four months after their first date, they were ready to

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<v Speaker 1>define their relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>We decided to be officially dating girlfriends. And that felt

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<v Speaker 2>really good to me. That felt healthy, that felt like

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<v Speaker 2>we were progressing in a mature way.

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<v Speaker 1>Devin was giddy. She and Kai started spending more and

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<v Speaker 1>more time together. Kai went out of her way to

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<v Speaker 1>plan romantic dates for devn.

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<v Speaker 2>It was summer in this gorgeous city, and we went

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<v Speaker 2>to go see the Indigo girls up on this mountain,

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<v Speaker 2>and we went wine tasting, and we were motorcycling everywhere

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<v Speaker 2>we went, sailing.

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<v Speaker 1>Devin was falling in love. She wrote about everything she

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<v Speaker 1>was feeling for Kai in her journal.

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote, she is smart, funny, playful, kind, affectionate, exceedingly thoughtful,

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<v Speaker 2>a badass with a wealth of life experiences. We're very compatible.

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<v Speaker 2>I keep waiting for the moment when I stop enjoying

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<v Speaker 2>seeing her. I have to watch so that I don't

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<v Speaker 2>lose myself in her.

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<v Speaker 1>It felt too good to be true.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember saying, how is it that I get to

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<v Speaker 2>have such a cool life right now?

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<v Speaker 1>Devin and Kai's relationship felt like a dream. They spent

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<v Speaker 1>their weekends roaming the Bay Area on Kai's motorcycle, going

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<v Speaker 1>to wine tastings, and hanging out with their friends. Kai

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<v Speaker 1>opened so many doors to adventure, love and community.

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<v Speaker 2>She was a fun, loving person. She was always looking

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<v Speaker 2>for a good time, and as somebody who had been

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<v Speaker 2>very serious, that felt so tempting, That felt so exciting

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<v Speaker 2>to be involved in. We were just having a grand time,

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<v Speaker 2>just really enjoying life. I was just falling in love,

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<v Speaker 2>happy and living it up in the city.

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<v Speaker 1>The only challenge in their relationship was that Kai was

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<v Speaker 1>often running late, but even with that.

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<v Speaker 2>There were always really good reasons for why she was late.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, there was traffic on the bridge, or it

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<v Speaker 2>didn't feel safe to drive my motorcycle because I'd been drinking,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, I was caught up in a really

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<v Speaker 2>serious conversation with her friend and I didn't want to

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<v Speaker 2>leave in the middle of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Every time Kai explained why she was late, Devin felt reassured.

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<v Speaker 1>She often felt bad for doubting Kai at all.

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<v Speaker 2>I got in my own head about why was I

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<v Speaker 2>so quick to assume the worst. You know, I just

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<v Speaker 2>need to relax, I wrote even in my journal. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to be needy if something's not seriously wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>but I do want her to communicate what's up.

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<v Speaker 1>They'd been dating for over seven months now. Things were

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<v Speaker 1>getting more serious, more committed.

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<v Speaker 2>We were planning trips together. She got to meet my family,

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<v Speaker 2>I started to meet her family.

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<v Speaker 1>Kai was crazy about her.

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<v Speaker 2>She said all these things to me about how I'm

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<v Speaker 2>like the strongest, most intelligent woman she's ever dated, that

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sexy, that she thinks about me all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>It was around this time that Kai moved out of

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<v Speaker 1>the apartment she had been renting with her roommate, Melissa.

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<v Speaker 2>She and Melissa were having hard time, and she said

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<v Speaker 2>that she really needed to move out and get her

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<v Speaker 2>own place.

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<v Speaker 1>Kai seemed really distraught about the end of their friendship.

0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.720
<v Speaker 1>She and Melissa had been best friends for years before

0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:06.360
<v Speaker 1>moving in together. Devin spent long nights processing it with Kai.

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Whenever Kai came over, Devin noticed that she stopped driving

0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.719
<v Speaker 1>her car. Instead she drove her motorcycle.

0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.360
<v Speaker 2>When I asked her about it, she said that her

0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 2>brother really needed a car, so she gave it to him,

0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.840
<v Speaker 2>and I thought that was really generous. Overall, I thought

0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Ki was really generous. She would buy drinks for everybody

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.800
<v Speaker 2>at the bar or you know, just do these kind

0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.800
<v Speaker 2>of like elaborate generous gestures, which was very attractive to me.

0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 1>When they went out with their friends, Kai was the

0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:40.200
<v Speaker 1>life of the party.

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.480
<v Speaker 2>She was getting the rounds a drinks for people. She

0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 2>was good to make you feel like the only person

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 2>in the room. People loved the attention they got from her,

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 2>just like I did.

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Devin wanted Kai to be free to express herself and

0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:59.000
<v Speaker 1>didn't want her to dial back her personality, but sometimes

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.480
<v Speaker 1>things felt like they were crossing a line.

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.720
<v Speaker 2>I just remember how flirty and touchy she was with

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 2>her friends.

0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.200
<v Speaker 1>When Devin brought this up, Kit always assured her that

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.240
<v Speaker 1>she had nothing to be worried about, that the flirting

0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:15.600
<v Speaker 1>was totally one sided.

0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.200
<v Speaker 2>She told Devin, I'm not attracted to so and so.

0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:22.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't have a crush on them. I'm only interested

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.520
<v Speaker 2>in you. But they have a crush on me, and

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to hurt their feelings, and so I'm

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.440
<v Speaker 2>just going to flirt with them and it's completely harmless.

0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 1>Devin trusted Kai, but seeing people flirt with her it

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.560
<v Speaker 1>made Devin uncomfortable. When Kay's birthday rolled around, Devin planned

0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.800
<v Speaker 1>a surprise party and invited a bunch of her friends.

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 1>At the party, Devin noticed that one of Kay's friends

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:48.760
<v Speaker 1>was being really flirty.

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Like holding her hand and like touching her, and she

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 2>was kissing her on the cheek and she's kept saying

0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 2>I love you Kai. She asked Kai to come into

0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 2>the bathroom with her to help her change, and just

0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.360
<v Speaker 2>all stuff that seemed so inappropriate to me, and it

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 2>really pissed me off.

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.720
<v Speaker 1>This was clearly pushing boundaries.

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:08.840
<v Speaker 2>And I actually wrote my journal I was so pissed,

0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.040
<v Speaker 2>but it was her birthday and I didn't want to

0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 2>ruin Kai's day. Kai wasn't contributing, and Kai said, she

0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.120
<v Speaker 2>is really touchy feely and it doesn't mean anything, especially

0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.400
<v Speaker 2>because she did it while I was there. I wanted

0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 2>to address it, but Kai asked that I let it go.

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.120
<v Speaker 1>Devin agreed, but she told Kai the way she was

0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 1>acting with her friends was really starting to bother her.

0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I did start to have more doubts around this time,

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:43.880
<v Speaker 2>but it still was more positive than negative. I still

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.240
<v Speaker 2>had more hope that things could be fine, and we

0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 2>just needed to communicate better and we could work it out.

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.760
<v Speaker 2>And these were all misunderstandings.

0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.160
<v Speaker 1>Kai and Devin were good at working through conflicts together.

0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.320
<v Speaker 1>They were both emotional, intelligent people.

0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.560
<v Speaker 2>So I felt good enough about our relationship that a

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 2>few months later I invited her to move in with me.

0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.119
<v Speaker 1>At this point, they were almost a year into their relationship.

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.720
<v Speaker 1>Kai moved in with Devin and brought her dog with her.

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.960
<v Speaker 1>They were excited to take this step, but they wanted

0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.840
<v Speaker 1>to make sure they didn't merge every aspect of their

0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:22.840
<v Speaker 1>lives too quickly.

0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.760
<v Speaker 2>When she moved in, there were actually three bedrooms and

0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.159
<v Speaker 2>we each took a bedroom. She had a bedroom, I

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.720
<v Speaker 2>had a bedroom, and then we often slept in my bedroom,

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.360
<v Speaker 2>and I wrote in my journal something about like it's

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.480
<v Speaker 2>important that we maintain our separating identities, and that we

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:40.320
<v Speaker 2>spent some nights.

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Apart, eating dinner and talking about their days. She could

0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.440
<v Speaker 1>imagine a future with Kai. They made the place their

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.600
<v Speaker 1>own and hung a picture of themselves in the front hallway.

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.359
<v Speaker 2>There was a big canvas picture of us kissing that

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 2>was displayed in our house.

0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 1>A few months into living together, Devine on a weekend

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.200
<v Speaker 1>trip by herself. When she got back on Sunday night,

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Devin immediately noticed something was different.

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.720
<v Speaker 2>The kissing picture was put in my bedroom, and when

0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I asked her about it, she said it had been

0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:14.880
<v Speaker 2>getting too much sun.

0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.000
<v Speaker 1>This seemed like weird reasoning to Devin, so the next

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.359
<v Speaker 1>day she brought it up to Kai again.

0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.520
<v Speaker 2>She actually changed her story, and she had said she

0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.400
<v Speaker 2>noticed that I put it down, so that she assumed

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.240
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want it displayed publicly and that it made

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:32.920
<v Speaker 2>her sad.

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Devin was confused. She knew she hadn't moved the picture, but.

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.919
<v Speaker 2>She was so adamant about it. Part of me started

0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.199
<v Speaker 2>to think, well, maybe maybe I did. Maybe I did

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:44.920
<v Speaker 2>take the picture and move it over here, and now

0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.400
<v Speaker 2>she thinks that I am not proud of our relationship,

0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:48.919
<v Speaker 2>and she felt sad, and so she put it in

0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:49.320
<v Speaker 2>my room.

0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Either way, Kai assured Devin that she was just overthinking it.

0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:56.200
<v Speaker 1>She had nothing to worry about.

0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 2>She said, just know that I love you very much

0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.000
<v Speaker 2>and I respect value you. I wouldn't do anything to

0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:03.280
<v Speaker 2>jeopardize our relationship.

0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Kai was in school full time and was juggling multiple jobs.

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.359
<v Speaker 2>She spent a fair bit a time away from the house,

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.399
<v Speaker 2>and I remember thinking at the time that I felt

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 2>like a nineteen fifties housewife because I was taking care

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.159
<v Speaker 2>of her dog, and then we'd gotten a puppy, so

0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I was taking care of both of them and doing

0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.399
<v Speaker 2>my jobs, and she was just gone for twelve hours

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.199
<v Speaker 2>a day. Often most of the cleaning was on me,

0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.679
<v Speaker 2>and the care of the house and the dogs was

0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 2>on me.

0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.520
<v Speaker 1>Devin worked full time too. It was a lot to

0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.680
<v Speaker 1>keep up with, but she was happy to support Kai

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 1>in getting her degree and building a life she loved.

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Summer rolled around and it was Pride month. Devin and

0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Kai made plans to attend the Pride Parade.

0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:57.320
<v Speaker 2>We went to Pride with this new friend that she

0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.359
<v Speaker 2>had met, that she'd been spending a lot of time

0:19:59.400 --> 0:19:59.840
<v Speaker 2>with named s.

0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Before they went, Kai warned her that Sam was pretty flirty.

0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 2>She very clearly introduced Sam to me as a friend

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.920
<v Speaker 2>who was very touchy feely, and that I shouldn't make

0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.760
<v Speaker 2>any meaning out of that.

0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.800
<v Speaker 1>That day, Devin and Sam immediately clicked.

0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 2>I really liked Sam, super charismatic, kind of like Kai,

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 2>very gregarious, very friendly, you know, good energy. Just wanted

0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:28.680
<v Speaker 2>to be around her.

0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 1>As the day went on, Devin noticed that Sam and

0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Kai seemed really close, especially considering Sam was a new friend.

0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.640
<v Speaker 2>We're all drinking, We're all pretty tipsy.

0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:47.600
<v Speaker 1>That night, Kai and Sam were inseparable. Every time Devin

0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 1>looked over, she saw them giggling or holding hands. Sometimes

0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 1>Kai was affectionate with her friends in a platonic way,

0:20:56.040 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 1>especially when she was drinking, but this felt different.

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.960
<v Speaker 2>That was one of the first times that I saw

0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:09.240
<v Speaker 2>their dynamic together and started to feel like something was

0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 2>really off.

0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:15.359
<v Speaker 1>It made Devon uncomfortable. After Pride, she brought it up

0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.200
<v Speaker 1>to Kai. She tried to set boundaries, but Kai told

0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:20.879
<v Speaker 1>her it was not a big deal.

0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 2>She said, Hey, that didn't mean anything. Sam is super

0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.720
<v Speaker 2>touchy feely. That's just how she is. She's just that

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:29.439
<v Speaker 2>kind of person.

0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Devin wanted to believe her, but it was getting harder

0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 1>to put her worries aside.

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:41.760
<v Speaker 2>I was suspicious, I was concerned. I was increasingly mistrustful.

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:47.159
<v Speaker 1>After that conversation, Kai was unusually affectionate and supportive. She

0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.560
<v Speaker 1>kept telling Devin how special she was.

0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.320
<v Speaker 2>All these sweet things like you're amazing, nobody's got shit

0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:56.840
<v Speaker 2>on you. You're the absolute best I've had by far.

0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:58.560
<v Speaker 2>I love you more than anything.

0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.000
<v Speaker 1>But her insurance only did so much.

0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.840
<v Speaker 2>And I started to feel more and more insecure in

0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:10.040
<v Speaker 2>the relationship. Devin wrote in her journal. God knows that

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:11.760
<v Speaker 2>I love her, but I can't keep taking this.

0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.080
<v Speaker 1>The fact that the three of them were always hanging

0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:18.159
<v Speaker 1>out together felt like a good sign. It's not like

0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Kai was trying to hide anything from her. I felt

0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.480
<v Speaker 1>like more of a boundaries issue than anything.

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:28.560
<v Speaker 2>There was one weekend when we had a whole bunch

0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.159
<v Speaker 2>of friends visiting. So I had friends from across the

0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:35.280
<v Speaker 2>country staying at our house and Kai had invited her friends,

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.159
<v Speaker 2>including Sam, and we all went to this queer club

0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:42.320
<v Speaker 2>to go dancing, and we all got pretty tipsy, and

0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.920
<v Speaker 2>I remember Kai bringing up the idea of a threesome.

0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:50.200
<v Speaker 1>A threesome Devin nearly choked on her drink.

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:54.280
<v Speaker 2>And to be clear, the threesome that Kai wanted to

0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 2>have was with Sam. It was kind of poised as, hey,

0:22:57.880 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 2>I want to be with somebody who's sextually opening this

0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:04.440
<v Speaker 2>way and wants to have a threesome. I said that

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:07.639
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't interested. I didn't really want to do that.

0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:12.239
<v Speaker 1>But then Ki pushed back. She said she wanted them

0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.600
<v Speaker 1>to have a new sexual experience together as a couple.

0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:19.399
<v Speaker 1>That was really important to her. And all of a sudden,

0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.639
<v Speaker 1>this wasn't about the threesome. It was about being the

0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:24.680
<v Speaker 1>person Kai wanted her to be.

0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:28.840
<v Speaker 2>And I remember her almost yelling at me, I want

0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.960
<v Speaker 2>to be with somebody who wants to do that. I

0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:35.320
<v Speaker 2>felt super upset. I just burst out into tears and

0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I ran into the bathroom.

0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.359
<v Speaker 1>This had never come up before, and Devin didn't have

0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.800
<v Speaker 1>any time to think it through because Kai didn't want

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:47.840
<v Speaker 1>to wait. She wanted to do it that same night.

0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:53.719
<v Speaker 1>After that conversation, Kai floated away. They all kept drinking.

0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Soon everyone moved to the dance floor.

0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 2>And the next thing I remember, Sam was dancing with

0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:06.840
<v Speaker 2>me in a very sexual way that wasn't fully consensual

0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:10.720
<v Speaker 2>on my part, and I felt so awkward in that moment,

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 2>and I also didn't really know how to say no.

0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Finally, they all left the bar and headed back to

0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Devin and Kai's house. A bunch of their friends were

0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:22.040
<v Speaker 1>crashing at their place.

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:26.719
<v Speaker 2>We get home and next thing I know, Sam has

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.520
<v Speaker 2>jumped into my bed where I was with Kai, and

0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:31.920
<v Speaker 2>then they just start having sex in front of me.

0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:35.439
<v Speaker 1>Devin felt pressured to join them.

0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Because Kai just made this huge deal about like, you're

0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:41.440
<v Speaker 2>not the person for me if you don't want to

0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:41.800
<v Speaker 2>do this.

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:45.720
<v Speaker 1>So she reluctantly went along with it.

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:51.159
<v Speaker 2>I remember watching Sam go down on Kai and I

0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 2>just had this like awareness hit me. This is not

0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:57.840
<v Speaker 2>the first time they've done this.

0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:22.280
<v Speaker 1>One night, Devin's girlfriend Kai told her she wanted to

0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:24.960
<v Speaker 1>have a threesome with their friend Sam, and.

0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:28.879
<v Speaker 2>I felt immense pressure to go along with it.

0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.800
<v Speaker 1>The next thing she knew, Sam joined her and Kai

0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:33.280
<v Speaker 1>in bed.

0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:35.960
<v Speaker 2>There was just like this like weird vibe where it

0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 2>felt as if it was almost like competitive, like who

0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:41.480
<v Speaker 2>is better at sex, but.

0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:45.680
<v Speaker 1>Then seeing Kai and Sam have sex, Devin had a

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:47.720
<v Speaker 1>disturbing realization.

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:51.040
<v Speaker 2>The way that they were acting sexually together. It became

0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:53.200
<v Speaker 2>so obvious in that moment that that was not the

0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:54.480
<v Speaker 2>first time that they had had sex.

0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Devin felt sick and frozen.

0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:00.359
<v Speaker 2>I can still feel in my body, it felt like

0:26:00.760 --> 0:26:04.359
<v Speaker 2>rocks in my stomach. And if I could turn back time,

0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:06.160
<v Speaker 2>I would have stood.

0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Up for myself then, but in the moment, she felt trapped.

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.679
<v Speaker 2>At some point it all stopped, and then we all

0:26:13.760 --> 0:26:16.560
<v Speaker 2>went to bed in the same bed, and I just remember,

0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 2>like hardly sleeping that night. I just remember laying on

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:22.600
<v Speaker 2>the pillow, kind of turned away from them, wondering what

0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:24.600
<v Speaker 2>I'd just done, what I'd just been a part of

0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:29.040
<v Speaker 2>questioning to myself, was I consenting? Was I not consenting?

0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I was super confused.

0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:35.480
<v Speaker 1>The next day was a blur for Devin.

0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I felt completely dissociated.

0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Something was deeply wrong.

0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:48.040
<v Speaker 2>I'd seen something, but it felt very intimidating to address

0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 2>what had just happened.

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Her gut told her it wasn't safe to confront Kai directly.

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 1>She didn't have any proof Kai was cheating on her

0:26:56.720 --> 0:27:02.240
<v Speaker 1>with Sam, just her intuition even' suggested they try couple's therapy,

0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:03.159
<v Speaker 1>and she.

0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:05.679
<v Speaker 2>Did show up for a session, and I just remember

0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:08.879
<v Speaker 2>crying through the whole session, and my therapist afterwards, in

0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:10.920
<v Speaker 2>a session with just me, she said, I don't know

0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:15.280
<v Speaker 2>how much empathy she has, And hearing a professional say

0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:18.719
<v Speaker 2>that was really helpful to me, because then I started

0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:22.000
<v Speaker 2>to see things a little more clearly. I realized that

0:27:22.160 --> 0:27:23.720
<v Speaker 2>the relationship was not working for me.

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.159
<v Speaker 1>Devin had a feeling Kai would not react well to

0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:30.359
<v Speaker 1>a breakup, so she decided to have the conversation in

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:33.600
<v Speaker 1>a public place. She invited Kai to meet her at

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:37.200
<v Speaker 1>a restaurant to talk. Once they were seated at their table,

0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:40.119
<v Speaker 1>Devin took a deep breath and told Kai.

0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:44.000
<v Speaker 2>I really love you. I really tried. I think we

0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:48.639
<v Speaker 2>both really tried. Our relationship's not working. I think we

0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:52.560
<v Speaker 2>need to break up. And her response was really short.

0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:56.119
<v Speaker 2>She just said, like okay, and then got on her

0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:56.840
<v Speaker 2>bike and left.

0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:03.080
<v Speaker 1>It was jarring. Devin left the restaurant feeling uneasy. She

0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:06.840
<v Speaker 1>went back to their house, but Kai had gotten there first.

0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.080
<v Speaker 2>She took a knife and slashed through a kissing picture

0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:13.119
<v Speaker 2>of us and had faced it out, So it was

0:28:13.119 --> 0:28:14.680
<v Speaker 2>the first thing that I saw when I came back

0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 2>into the house. She took toilet paper rolls and dropped

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 2>them in all the toilets, and she wrote on our whiteboard,

0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:25.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll send my terms.

0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:31.119
<v Speaker 1>Devin didn't know if Kai was coming back. She waited anxiously.

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 2>I was really unsettled that night. I know she had left,

0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:37.080
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know where she went. I went into my

0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>room and I brought a kitchen chair. I wedged the

0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 2>chair up under the door handle, and I also brought

0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 2>the kitchen knife in with me and put it under

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:47.200
<v Speaker 2>my pillow. There was a part of me that didn't

0:28:47.200 --> 0:28:49.160
<v Speaker 2>think she would ever do anything to hurt me, But

0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:50.880
<v Speaker 2>then there was a part of me that really did

0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:51.240
<v Speaker 2>not know.

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:55.600
<v Speaker 1>The next day Kai returned, they thought about who would

0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:59.520
<v Speaker 1>move out, Devin or Kai. The truth was neither of

0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 1>them could afford to move out right away. Devin couldn't

0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:06.200
<v Speaker 1>get away from the feeling that Kai had been lying

0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:10.240
<v Speaker 1>to her, so she started looking for proof. That's when

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:13.600
<v Speaker 1>she found a handwritten note in Kai's room. It was

0:29:13.680 --> 0:29:14.240
<v Speaker 1>from Sam.

0:29:15.240 --> 0:29:18.720
<v Speaker 2>I actually found a love letter from Sam to Kai

0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:22.200
<v Speaker 2>that said that she wanted to grow old with her

0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 2>and have their dreams come true. And I also found

0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:33.000
<v Speaker 2>a video of them making out from when I had

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:35.400
<v Speaker 2>gone away for a day trip and they were in

0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:37.040
<v Speaker 2>our house making out.

0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Devin stared at the video and the love letter, stunned.

0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:44.520
<v Speaker 2>It was almost like the dissonance that I had been

0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:51.160
<v Speaker 2>surviving under came crashing together in that moment. I just

0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:54.480
<v Speaker 2>started shaking. I didn't stop shaking for twelve hours.

0:29:56.880 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Devin decided to confront Kai, already broken up, but she

0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:04.080
<v Speaker 1>needed to know the truth about what had been happening

0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:05.640
<v Speaker 1>between Kai and Sam.

0:30:06.400 --> 0:30:09.040
<v Speaker 2>We sat on the white couch and then I just

0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:14.520
<v Speaker 2>showed her the video and then she was like, oh, well,

0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:17.240
<v Speaker 2>like we were just pretending you're you know, we were

0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:20.080
<v Speaker 2>play acting. And then once she realized I wasn't buying

0:30:20.160 --> 0:30:22.440
<v Speaker 2>those lies, then she changed it to that was the

0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:25.840
<v Speaker 2>only time. It was a mistake. That's all we did

0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:29.280
<v Speaker 2>was kiss and it was just that one time. At

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.480
<v Speaker 2>that point, it was just offensive. I was like, do

0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 2>you really think I'm not stupid?

0:30:34.640 --> 0:30:37.920
<v Speaker 1>After that, Devin expected Kai to move out of her

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:42.720
<v Speaker 1>own volition, but Kai refused to leave. What followed was

0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:45.240
<v Speaker 1>a month that Devin describes as one of the hardest

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 1>of her life. Kai was trying everything to get Devin

0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:52.960
<v Speaker 1>to stay with her. She was emotionally volatile, alternating between

0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:57.880
<v Speaker 1>extreme affection and manipulation. Devin was scared of her, but

0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 1>she was also stuck living with her. She felt trapped.

0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Kai would fluctuate between trying to get me to stay

0:31:05.000 --> 0:31:09.760
<v Speaker 2>with her and even initiating sex, and in that month

0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:13.960
<v Speaker 2>I felt emotionally unsafe, physically unsafe, but I also felt

0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:15.000
<v Speaker 2>sexually unsafe.

0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Eventually, Kai decided to move out, but on the day

0:31:19.240 --> 0:31:21.360
<v Speaker 1>she came to pick up the last of her things,

0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:23.120
<v Speaker 1>she had a breakdown.

0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:27.920
<v Speaker 2>She proposed to me on a whim and starts like crying,

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and then very quickly changes her demeanor into this like

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:36.880
<v Speaker 2>very angry, cold person. And then I hear this noise

0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:39.160
<v Speaker 2>and I look out the window and she's smashing her

0:31:39.240 --> 0:31:42.840
<v Speaker 2>guitar in the driveway. I got scared, and so I

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:47.160
<v Speaker 2>locked the door, and she says, hey, I don't have

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:49.960
<v Speaker 2>my keys. I need to come in and get my keys.

0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:54.840
<v Speaker 2>And I paused because I didn't feel safe, and then

0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:56.360
<v Speaker 2>she's like, no, no, I just need to come in

0:31:56.400 --> 0:31:59.080
<v Speaker 2>and get my keys, and so I unlocked the door

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:02.959
<v Speaker 2>and she pushes it open and then she stands right

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:07.239
<v Speaker 2>in front of me, and her eyes changed and they

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:11.200
<v Speaker 2>got very cold, and she said, I didn't leave my keys.

0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:15.160
<v Speaker 2>I actually felt chills at that moment. I just I

0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:17.840
<v Speaker 2>knew she wasn't safe, and I knew if I poked

0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:20.400
<v Speaker 2>her in any way, I was not going to be safe.

0:32:22.120 --> 0:32:26.080
<v Speaker 1>Devin stayed calm until Kai finally left. When she was alone,

0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:30.520
<v Speaker 1>she slumped to the ground and began to cry. She'd

0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:34.400
<v Speaker 1>been with Kai for almost three years, but below the

0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:39.200
<v Speaker 1>sadness there was anger. Anger at Kai, and anger at Sam,

0:32:40.120 --> 0:32:44.080
<v Speaker 1>she had considered a friend. She decided to send Sam

0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:45.560
<v Speaker 1>a message, and.

0:32:45.680 --> 0:32:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I said, I'm so hurt that you did this, that

0:32:49.160 --> 0:32:51.960
<v Speaker 2>you kind of inserted yourself into my relationship with Kai.

0:32:52.400 --> 0:32:54.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you could do this to me

0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:56.200
<v Speaker 2>and pretend to be like a friend to me.

0:32:57.160 --> 0:32:59.959
<v Speaker 1>It was cathartic to get some emotion out when she did.

0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:02.640
<v Speaker 1>I didn't hear from Sam for a few weeks. Devin

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:05.840
<v Speaker 1>assumed that was the end of it. Months went by

0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:09.160
<v Speaker 1>until one day Devin got a notification.

0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:13.640
<v Speaker 2>I get a message from Sam that says, thank you

0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:17.200
<v Speaker 2>for reaching out to me. Your message helped me listen

0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:20.640
<v Speaker 2>to my gut, and if you're willing to I'd like

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:23.160
<v Speaker 2>to meet up and talk about a few things, because

0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:26.600
<v Speaker 2>I thought that I was Kai's only girlfriend.

0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:32.920
<v Speaker 1>Devin reread the words, I thought I was Kai's only girlfriend.

0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:38.600
<v Speaker 2>I was shocked. What Kaya told me was that Sam

0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:41.680
<v Speaker 2>had inserted herself. She had orchestrated the threesome. It was

0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:45.120
<v Speaker 2>all her. She's touchy, flirty, you know. Kai wasn't even

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:45.959
<v Speaker 2>attracted to her.

0:33:46.640 --> 0:33:50.200
<v Speaker 1>But now it was becoming clear that was very far

0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:53.320
<v Speaker 1>from the truth. Devin and Sam had a lot to

0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:56.520
<v Speaker 1>talk about, so Devin invited her over to her place.

0:33:57.280 --> 0:34:00.320
<v Speaker 1>They split a bottle of wine, and for the first time,

0:34:01.160 --> 0:34:03.800
<v Speaker 1>Devin heard the story from Sam's perspective.

0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:07.400
<v Speaker 2>The last ten months of my relationship with Kai, when

0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:11.600
<v Speaker 2>we were still living together and I thought exclusive and monogamous.

0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Sam was also dating Kai and thought that they were

0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 2>exclusive and monogamous. Kai had maintained both of us as

0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:25.239
<v Speaker 2>her girlfriend, and we both thought we were her only

0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:29.840
<v Speaker 2>girlfriend for ten months. At that point, the rage just

0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:33.680
<v Speaker 2>set in. My blood started to boil because I thought

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:38.320
<v Speaker 2>that I had understood the depth of the betrayal, but

0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't.

0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:44.880
<v Speaker 1>It turns out Kai had been pretending that Devin was

0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:46.160
<v Speaker 1>her ex girlfriend.

0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:49.839
<v Speaker 2>Kai had told Sam that she couldn't afford to move

0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:52.640
<v Speaker 2>out yet, and that's why we had different rooms, that

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:56.279
<v Speaker 2>we weren't girlfriends anymore, and that supposedly the reason that

0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:58.520
<v Speaker 2>we'd broken up was that I had cheated on her

0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:03.920
<v Speaker 2>with my best friend. The audacity of that lie incensed me.

0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:09.120
<v Speaker 2>I was infuriated that she would make me out to

0:35:09.200 --> 0:35:09.880
<v Speaker 2>be the villain.

0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Most people, when they're cheating, go to great lengths to

0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:18.560
<v Speaker 1>keep their partners away from each other, but Kai did

0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:22.680
<v Speaker 1>the opposite. She brought Devin and Sam together as often

0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 1>as she could, even instigating the threesome. She seemed to

0:35:27.000 --> 0:35:30.120
<v Speaker 1>enjoy the power that came with being the only one

0:35:30.239 --> 0:35:33.160
<v Speaker 1>in the know. The more they talked, the more they

0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:38.640
<v Speaker 1>discovered just how organized and systematic Kai was in her deception.

0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Kai had actually sinked both of our Google calendars up

0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:45.880
<v Speaker 2>to her calendar, so she knew where both of us

0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:48.120
<v Speaker 2>were at any given time, so she could figure out

0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:50.480
<v Speaker 2>when Sam could be over at the house for them

0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:52.279
<v Speaker 2>to have sex and you not walk in on them.

0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:56.240
<v Speaker 1>It just kept getting worse and worse.

0:35:57.080 --> 0:35:59.640
<v Speaker 2>I'd stopped being hurt. I was just pissed.

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:05.120
<v Speaker 1>Devin and Sam realized they'd both been lied to. So

0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:08.279
<v Speaker 1>they decided to work together to expose Kai.

0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I think that that helped reclaim a sense of empowerment.

0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:17.040
<v Speaker 1>If Kai was so willing to lie to both of them,

0:36:17.920 --> 0:36:21.319
<v Speaker 1>what else was she hiding? Devin and Sam went into

0:36:21.440 --> 0:36:22.520
<v Speaker 1>investigation mode.

0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:25.000
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to get to the truth. So what I

0:36:25.040 --> 0:36:26.920
<v Speaker 2>did after meeting with Sam was I actually reached out

0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:30.360
<v Speaker 2>to everybody that knew Kai and asked if they'd be

0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:31.279
<v Speaker 2>willing to meet with me.

0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Many of Kai's friends agreed. Devin met with them one

0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:39.439
<v Speaker 1>by one. Slowly she began to piece together the full

0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:43.200
<v Speaker 1>picture of Kai's deception. Kai had been lying to Devin

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:46.640
<v Speaker 1>from the very beginning, starting with the story she told

0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:47.840
<v Speaker 1>her about Melissa.

0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:52.719
<v Speaker 2>They had been living together as girlfriends when Kai had

0:36:52.800 --> 0:36:56.440
<v Speaker 2>started pursuing me. Kai would tell Melissa that I was

0:36:56.680 --> 0:36:59.040
<v Speaker 2>a student at her college, and she said we were

0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:00.880
<v Speaker 2>in the same class together and that she was going

0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:01.719
<v Speaker 2>to go study with me.

0:37:02.600 --> 0:37:05.680
<v Speaker 1>Devin had comforted Kai through the end of her friendship

0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:09.759
<v Speaker 1>with Melissa, but now Devin realized that hadn't been a

0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:14.279
<v Speaker 1>friendship gone wrong. It was a breakup and the.

0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Car that she would drive was Melissa's car, So when

0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:20.080
<v Speaker 2>it disappeared and Kai told me she'd given it to

0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:24.440
<v Speaker 2>her brother in this generous gift she hadn't given to anybody.

0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Kai was following a script, telling each new woman she

0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:33.240
<v Speaker 1>was pursuing that her long term girlfriend was just a roommate,

0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:37.040
<v Speaker 1>and she told her long term girlfriend that the women

0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:40.719
<v Speaker 1>she was pursuing were just friends. When her long term

0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:44.600
<v Speaker 1>relationship crumbled, she moved in with a new woman and

0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:45.840
<v Speaker 1>repeated the cycle.

0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I really started to see this pattern that she had

0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:55.600
<v Speaker 2>been using for years, most likely before even Melissa. What

0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:58.560
<v Speaker 2>I was going on with her was deef seated and

0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:01.680
<v Speaker 2>cyclical and not going to change.

0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:07.600
<v Speaker 1>As Devin and Sam continued reaching out to Kai's old friends,

0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:11.240
<v Speaker 1>they found out a lot of them weren't just friends.

0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:13.759
<v Speaker 1>They'd been hooking up with Kai too.

0:38:14.719 --> 0:38:17.640
<v Speaker 2>She had been having sex with a number of other

0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:19.799
<v Speaker 2>people while both of us had been dating her.

0:38:21.200 --> 0:38:24.120
<v Speaker 1>Devin was able to confirm evidence of Kai cheating on

0:38:24.239 --> 0:38:28.240
<v Speaker 1>her with four other women, though she suspects it's upwards

0:38:28.239 --> 0:38:28.680
<v Speaker 1>of nine.

0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Kai actually brought them not only to our house, but

0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:36.759
<v Speaker 2>into my bed and used our sex toys. It made

0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:42.880
<v Speaker 2>my skin crawl. It just felt so violating and so unsafe.

0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Kai put Devin's sexual health at risk.

0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:51.440
<v Speaker 2>I was really concerned. I remember scheduling a full sexual

0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:55.960
<v Speaker 2>health checkup once I found out I did have a

0:38:56.120 --> 0:39:02.640
<v Speaker 2>PAP that tested abnormal after this experience, and fortunately it

0:39:03.040 --> 0:39:06.600
<v Speaker 2>resolved itself after about a year. It felt like an

0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:07.520
<v Speaker 2>additional betrayal.

0:39:08.200 --> 0:39:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Devin thought back to the quirks and Kai's behavior that

0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 1>she'd brushed aside, like how Kai was always running late,

0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:17.880
<v Speaker 1>or why she'd taken down that photo of them kissing

0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:22.400
<v Speaker 1>while Devin was out of town. Now it made sense

0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:25.839
<v Speaker 1>Kai had other women coming over to their house when

0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:26.839
<v Speaker 1>Devin wasn't there.

0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:29.880
<v Speaker 2>She just had all of these like flings while she

0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:34.279
<v Speaker 2>also had these ongoing relationships, So she was good at this.

0:39:35.120 --> 0:39:36.480
<v Speaker 2>She'd been doing this for a long time.

0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Devin and Sam were so outraged they decided to go

0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:44.600
<v Speaker 1>straight to the source of all the chaos.

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:49.840
<v Speaker 2>We actually confronted Kai together. We called her while we

0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:52.520
<v Speaker 2>were together, and she picks up the phone and she's like,

0:39:53.680 --> 0:39:57.880
<v Speaker 2>oh hey, Like no emotion, no nothing.

0:39:58.880 --> 0:40:01.600
<v Speaker 1>They told Kai they knew what she'd done to them.

0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:05.279
<v Speaker 1>They knew about her pattern of pretending her girlfriend was

0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:09.200
<v Speaker 1>her roommate while she courted someone new, all the people

0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:12.279
<v Speaker 1>she cheated with, and all the lies she told to

0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:15.200
<v Speaker 1>cover it all up. They knew everything.

0:40:16.000 --> 0:40:18.760
<v Speaker 2>The reaction that I think we might have been hoping

0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:21.880
<v Speaker 2>for was some sort of remorse or some sort of accountability,

0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:26.000
<v Speaker 2>and just nothing. It was almost like this chess game

0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:30.200
<v Speaker 2>and it was checkmate, and she didn't really care that

0:40:30.320 --> 0:40:34.359
<v Speaker 2>we figured it out. At that point, we both got

0:40:34.480 --> 0:40:37.320
<v Speaker 2>really pissed. We were just chess pieces to her. It

0:40:37.400 --> 0:40:40.000
<v Speaker 2>almost felt like I stepped out of my real life

0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:43.600
<v Speaker 2>and I was in a movie about a con artist

0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:44.120
<v Speaker 2>or something.

0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Kai was already onto her next girlfriend. She didn't need

0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:54.120
<v Speaker 1>Devin or Sam. Then it dawned on Devin. For Ki,

0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:58.839
<v Speaker 1>this wasn't about love. It was about convenience. Kai had

0:40:58.880 --> 0:41:01.520
<v Speaker 1>a rotating cast of way and helping take care of

0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:05.120
<v Speaker 1>her needs. It was like musical chairs, and she didn't

0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:06.960
<v Speaker 1>seem to care where she landed.

0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:11.239
<v Speaker 2>I think her con was actually like getting her dog

0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:16.480
<v Speaker 2>taken care of, having somebody who's buying groceries, having somebody

0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:20.719
<v Speaker 2>who is maintaining a stable household that she could come

0:41:20.800 --> 0:41:21.279
<v Speaker 2>and go from.

0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:25.839
<v Speaker 1>Kai would let her girlfriends cook for her, clean up

0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:28.040
<v Speaker 1>after her, and drive her around.

0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:30.640
<v Speaker 2>It was about having her other needs met, but it

0:41:30.719 --> 0:41:35.320
<v Speaker 2>was also about having a very respectable looking life so

0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:38.520
<v Speaker 2>that she could go out and do the stuff she

0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:39.320
<v Speaker 2>really wanted to do.

0:41:40.200 --> 0:41:44.640
<v Speaker 1>While Kai's girlfriends kept her life afloat, she secretly destroyed theirs.

0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:49.359
<v Speaker 1>Devin and Sam wanted to break Kai's pattern. Clearly, Kai

0:41:49.520 --> 0:41:52.680
<v Speaker 1>herself was not interested in that, but there was one

0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:56.040
<v Speaker 1>more person that Devin and Sam knew would be interested

0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:59.800
<v Speaker 1>in the information they'd gathered Kai's knew girlfriend.

0:42:00.719 --> 0:42:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Sam knew who her next person was because she had

0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:07.759
<v Speaker 2>talked about this new person a lot, and neither of

0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:10.120
<v Speaker 2>us had her contact information, so we actually reached out

0:42:10.160 --> 0:42:13.520
<v Speaker 2>on LinkedIn, so it was like a few characters. It

0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:15.719
<v Speaker 2>was like, you know, she's not who she says she is.

0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:17.960
<v Speaker 2>She dated multiple people at once, call me if you

0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:23.320
<v Speaker 2>want any information. Devin hits end crickets for months, and

0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 2>then finally I got a message back from her and

0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:28.120
<v Speaker 2>she was like, Hey, I really appreciate you reaching out,

0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:30.160
<v Speaker 2>and it helped me listen to my gut more quickly

0:42:30.719 --> 0:42:33.080
<v Speaker 2>and end it with Kai. And I don't think I

0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:34.520
<v Speaker 2>would have seen that so quickly without you.

0:42:36.080 --> 0:42:39.000
<v Speaker 1>It was meaningful to know that they had protected someone

0:42:39.080 --> 0:42:42.520
<v Speaker 1>from Kai's cycle of deception. It felt like the natural

0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:47.480
<v Speaker 1>end of Devin's investigation now came the next step her

0:42:47.560 --> 0:42:48.200
<v Speaker 1>own healing.

0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:53.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship,

0:42:54.280 --> 0:42:57.920
<v Speaker 2>it's almost like watching a bad horror film where the

0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:01.480
<v Speaker 2>protagonist is like walking through the house being like hello, Hello,

0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:04.040
<v Speaker 2>is anyone here? You know, and you're like screaming at

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:06.040
<v Speaker 2>the screen. They're right behind you.

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Devin began untangling her life and identity from Kai. She

0:43:11.160 --> 0:43:15.080
<v Speaker 1>invested her energy back into herself, her friendships, and her work.

0:43:15.760 --> 0:43:18.520
<v Speaker 1>For years, she told herself that the threesome with Sam

0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:21.799
<v Speaker 1>and Kai was not a big deal and rationalized her

0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:25.800
<v Speaker 1>own discomfort away. But as time went on, she started

0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.000
<v Speaker 1>to be honest about the impact it had on her.

0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:33.160
<v Speaker 2>I started to perceive it the way I really experienced it,

0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:36.600
<v Speaker 2>which was not consensually, which was very high on the

0:43:36.680 --> 0:43:41.120
<v Speaker 2>coercion scale, a lot of alcohol involved, My people, pleasing

0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:44.840
<v Speaker 2>was at an all time max. I recognized that it

0:43:45.040 --> 0:43:50.400
<v Speaker 2>was trauma, and I did do EMDR specifically around that

0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:53.520
<v Speaker 2>traumatic event. And I remember when she started, they have

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:55.839
<v Speaker 2>you do a scale of one to ten in terms

0:43:55.840 --> 0:43:59.319
<v Speaker 2>of activation, and it was a ten. My body went

0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:02.160
<v Speaker 2>back to that place of feeling powerless and kind of

0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:06.600
<v Speaker 2>trapped and by the end of the session we had

0:44:06.640 --> 0:44:09.400
<v Speaker 2>it down to a three. I'm really grateful that I

0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 2>had the courage to go back into it and try

0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:15.360
<v Speaker 2>to shift that trauma so it wouldn't live on in

0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:16.560
<v Speaker 2>me with too much power.

0:44:21.640 --> 0:44:24.680
<v Speaker 1>One day, a couple of years later, Devan was waiting

0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:27.680
<v Speaker 1>for the subway when she looked up and saw Kai.

0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:32.120
<v Speaker 2>I saw her, and she saw me, and she walked

0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:39.719
<v Speaker 2>away from me to the next car. And that felt empowering,

0:44:40.640 --> 0:44:42.680
<v Speaker 2>like this person who I had been scared of, who

0:44:42.760 --> 0:44:44.640
<v Speaker 2>I gave so much power to and so much control

0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:47.719
<v Speaker 2>to for such a long time, wasn't going to try

0:44:47.800 --> 0:44:50.160
<v Speaker 2>to manipulate me anymore. I didn't even want to approach

0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:50.800
<v Speaker 2>me anymore.

0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:54.759
<v Speaker 1>When Kai left their apartment for the last time, she

0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:58.320
<v Speaker 1>said something to Devin that echoed in her brain for years.

0:44:59.080 --> 0:45:01.680
<v Speaker 2>She said to me, nobody's ever going to love you

0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:05.880
<v Speaker 2>like I do. And for a moment I questioned if

0:45:05.920 --> 0:45:08.640
<v Speaker 2>she was right, like I didn't know what a healthy

0:45:08.719 --> 0:45:11.359
<v Speaker 2>relationship looked, or felt like maybe that was the best

0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:13.080
<v Speaker 2>I was going to get. And then I had just

0:45:13.160 --> 0:45:16.120
<v Speaker 2>had this strong, strong, no take over my body.

0:45:17.040 --> 0:45:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Like always, She used her journal to help her envision

0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:23.080
<v Speaker 1>the kind of relationship she did want.

0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:26.360
<v Speaker 2>I wrote, I will have a healthy, loving partnership with

0:45:26.480 --> 0:45:29.480
<v Speaker 2>someone I love and I trust we will communicate and

0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:33.120
<v Speaker 2>seek to know each other deeply. She's out there. I

0:45:33.280 --> 0:45:34.840
<v Speaker 2>just have to stay on the path and let the

0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 2>universe know that I'm ready.

0:45:36.880 --> 0:45:41.080
<v Speaker 1>It's been over a decade since Devin's relationship with Kai. Today,

0:45:41.719 --> 0:45:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Devin has that loving partnership she imagined.

0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:47.759
<v Speaker 2>I found her. I found her, and I have a

0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:51.560
<v Speaker 2>six month old baby, and if I listened to what

0:45:51.680 --> 0:45:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Kai said back then, I wouldn't have and I'm very

0:45:55.239 --> 0:45:58.640
<v Speaker 2>grateful to have the life that I have now.

0:46:00.920 --> 0:46:04.520
<v Speaker 1>We end every weekly episode with the same question, why

0:46:04.560 --> 0:46:05.840
<v Speaker 1>do you want to share your story?

0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:10.440
<v Speaker 2>It takes a lot for me to get to a

0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:14.399
<v Speaker 2>place of anger, but I will have my own back

0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:16.959
<v Speaker 2>when it comes down to it. I think as women,

0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:21.200
<v Speaker 2>we are socialized to doubt ourselves and to go along

0:46:21.239 --> 0:46:26.840
<v Speaker 2>to get along. This experience was an invitation to really

0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:31.680
<v Speaker 2>learn to trust myself. I learned what the feeling of

0:46:31.920 --> 0:46:35.480
<v Speaker 2>intuition is in my body, and I also learned how

0:46:35.680 --> 0:46:38.640
<v Speaker 2>bad it feels to shove it down.

0:46:47.640 --> 0:46:52.719
<v Speaker 1>On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I.

0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:55.400
<v Speaker 3>Just felt like all the breath had been stolen out

0:46:55.440 --> 0:46:59.959
<v Speaker 3>of my body? How do we have these completely differ,

0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:04.560
<v Speaker 3>diferent stories? Do I have my own story wrong?

0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:12.040
<v Speaker 1>If you'd like to share your story on Betrayal, please

0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:17.520
<v Speaker 1>email Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That is Betrayal Pod

0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:21.640
<v Speaker 1>at gmail dot com. Please note that we are not

0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:25.800
<v Speaker 1>a mental health organization. If you are in crisis or

0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:30.360
<v Speaker 1>currently experiencing domestic violence, we encourage you to seek local

0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:34.760
<v Speaker 1>help or dial nine to one one. Please contact organizations

0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:38.920
<v Speaker 1>that offer immediate support. In our show notes, we've included

0:47:38.960 --> 0:47:42.799
<v Speaker 1>a list of US based resources. You can follow us

0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:46.200
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram at betrayal Pod or find me at It's

0:47:46.200 --> 0:47:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter and additional content, and

0:47:50.480 --> 0:47:53.839
<v Speaker 1>to connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at

0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:58.040
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0:47:58.480 --> 0:48:00.960
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0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:11.520
<v Speaker 1>thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a

0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:15.080
<v Speaker 1>production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,

0:48:15.160 --> 0:48:19.400
<v Speaker 1>in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced

0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:22.880
<v Speaker 1>by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by

0:48:22.960 --> 0:48:27.040
<v Speaker 1>me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hewitt. Our

0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:31.280
<v Speaker 1>story editor is Monique Lebord, also produced by Ben Fetterman.

0:48:31.800 --> 0:48:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Our associate producer is Leah Jablo. Production management by Kristin Melcurie,

0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:41.319
<v Speaker 1>Booking support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali

0:48:41.440 --> 0:48:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Perry and Jessica Crimecheck. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with

0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:49.880
<v Speaker 1>additional editing and mixing by Matt Delbecchio. Betrayal's theme composed

0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:54.520
<v Speaker 1>by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by my Music And

0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:59.000
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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