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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben, and we are joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul. Mission Control deconds. Most importantly, you are you,

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. As we record, it is

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Speaker 1: a dark and stormy afternoon here in Atlanta, Georgia. I

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Speaker 1: love it, honestly. You know, you guys know that I

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Speaker 1: just live for dark, rainy weather and I feel like

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Speaker 1: Ghostbusters weather because it reminds me of like the scene

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Speaker 1: when the Traveler kind of shows up at the end

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Speaker 1: of the first movie and everything's kind of swirling around

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Speaker 1: and like a weird Cathulian Maelstrom. That's what it feels

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Speaker 1: like here in Atlanta right now. I want it to

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Speaker 1: be this weather all the time. Your mileage may vary,

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Speaker 1: but this weather is strangely appropriate. Uh. I was talking

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Speaker 1: about this on Twitter, where you can follow me on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram for spoilers, with episodes, but I felt

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Speaker 1: like we needed a disclaimer for this one. For all

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Speaker 1: our conspiracy realists, this episode is going to be surprisingly

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Speaker 1: not boring, guaranteed, and uh, the best way to start

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Speaker 1: talking about it is to say, you know, no matter

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Speaker 1: who you are or who you want to be, life,

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Speaker 1: when you think about it, for everyone, can be defined

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Speaker 1: as a series of tests. In the United States many

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Speaker 1: other countries, your path from childhood through adolescents to adulthood

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Speaker 1: is marked by test formal or informal. If we talk

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Speaker 1: about formal ones, you know immediately everybody thinks about the

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Speaker 1: school year. Since the industrial revel Ouan and the the

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Speaker 1: age of public schooling, you have to pass a series

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Speaker 1: of tests to move up to the next grade, and

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Speaker 1: you just rents and repeat until you graduate or drop out.

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Speaker 1: If you want a driver's license, you got to get

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Speaker 1: an exam. A huge part of your college career depends

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Speaker 1: upon your performance or used to depend upon your performance

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Speaker 1: on tests like the S A T or the A

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Speaker 1: C T. And those tests don't stop here. You know

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Speaker 1: after you get out of college. If you go to college,

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Speaker 1: then when you get a job, you are gonna have

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Speaker 1: different testing and qualification regimens. For that if you work

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Speaker 1: in certain fields of government, you have a background check.

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Speaker 1: It's a test you take all the time, and you

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Speaker 1: need industry specific qualifications. These are necessary, These are valid,

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Speaker 1: But that's not the whole story. When we're talking about this,

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about the much darker story behind

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Speaker 1: what's called standardized testing. Here are the facts, dude. I

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Speaker 1: was in line for some food at our former office

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Speaker 1: location behind a guy who's talking about is UH testing

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Speaker 1: for Google, like, you know, a multiple level you know

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Speaker 1: interview process that involved incredibly rigorous testing, and it was

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Speaker 1: like code this thing in thirty seconds, and it was

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Speaker 1: just fascinating hearing kind of the inside scoop of some

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Speaker 1: of these very industry specific tests. So to your point, Ben, no,

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Speaker 1: they don't stop, and they just get more specific and

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Speaker 1: kind of esoteric. And thank goodness for the stand all

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Speaker 1: the folk everywhere. I mean, this is the thing before

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a hit piece on stardized testing, which

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Speaker 1: this episode kind of is. In the interest of full transparency,

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Speaker 1: we do have to admit you're absolutely correct that standards

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Speaker 1: are a good thing. It is objectively great that doctors, pilots, teachers, plumbers, truckers,

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Speaker 1: anybody doing anything important has some kind of standard and training.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you don't want you don't want a surgeon

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Speaker 1: who just says, I kind of go with the vibe,

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Speaker 1: dearie Oregon trans plants. You know, I put on like

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Speaker 1: some low fi chill hip hop instrumental channels and I

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Speaker 1: just sort of go at it. You end up with

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Speaker 1: a kidney at the end. Uh. And you know some

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Speaker 1: people love taking tests. I take tests for fun. Um.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh yeah. Tests are are great. They can

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Speaker 1: be I feel like every video game I play is

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Speaker 1: a little test. You know the same thing. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've all been in test mode with elden Ring. It's

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Speaker 1: about testing our metal and our ability to deal with

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Speaker 1: absolute frustration and like push through. Yeah. But but even

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Speaker 1: think about standards in a more general way, think about

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Speaker 1: a Phillip's head and a flathead screwdriver. My goodness, thank

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Speaker 1: goodness that we have those kinds of things where every

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Speaker 1: every screw that you encounter it actually it's not true.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of less apple but mostly the

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Speaker 1: ones you encounter are going to be standardized, which is

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Speaker 1: very nice, and it means you don't have to spend

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Speaker 1: you know, hundreds and hundreds of dollars on screwdrivers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it might surprise people to to know that even

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Speaker 1: even us here at stuff they don't want you to

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Speaker 1: know because of our parent company. Uh, we have testing

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Speaker 1: that we have to do every year, and some of

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Speaker 1: it is frankly hilarious. It's the workplace training videos where

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Speaker 1: they oh, there's the lightning where they ask uh weird

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Speaker 1: questions that have obvious answers like, Hey, you found out

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Speaker 1: employee A is uh stealing cars. That's what employee A

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Speaker 1: does on their lunch break, embezzling from the pension fund,

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Speaker 1: which the following actions. Will you take A I am

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Speaker 1: not a snitch. B I would ask them to stop

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Speaker 1: selling stealing cars see all of the above, right, or

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Speaker 1: asked to get cut in on the scam. That's always

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Speaker 1: so these tests that you have to take throughout your life,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna have very levels of rigor, but they are

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Speaker 1: This is crucial for us to establish. They are important.

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Speaker 1: You do need to have as a society some sort

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Speaker 1: of standardization, some sort of testing. And other societies realized

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Speaker 1: this long long, long before the United States was a thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ancient cultures understood this from the jump because it makes

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Speaker 1: sense they underst of the importance of standards. UM. Some

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Speaker 1: of the earliest examples you might see go all the

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Speaker 1: way back to the Han dynasty in China. UM they

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Speaker 1: had standardized tests called Imperial examinations that were incredibly difficult

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Speaker 1: um also pretty corrupt in terms of identifying light who

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Speaker 1: you know might be in the pocket of the rulers.

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Speaker 1: Kind of reminds me of things like the knowledge. You

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Speaker 1: know that that test that all the cabbies have to

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Speaker 1: take in London because of all the crazy routes and

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Speaker 1: things they have to commit to memory. Um not the

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Speaker 1: case here with cab drivers or uber drivers. Also thank

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Speaker 1: god for GPS. But those tests, the Imperial examinations, weren't

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Speaker 1: credibly important because passing them meant that you'd get a

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Speaker 1: job working for the state. And it's also probably the

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Speaker 1: corruption angle. Oh yeah, and there were super super corrupt

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Speaker 1: and super difficult. Objectively, you had to know a ton

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Speaker 1: of things. I like that you shouted out the knowledge.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the most interesting tests that I'm aware

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Speaker 1: of in the modern day. If you want to learn

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Speaker 1: about what affect the knowledge has on the drivers who

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Speaker 1: pass it, then do check out our mind over Matter episodes.

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Speaker 1: You can also check out the car stuff episode the

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Speaker 1: Knowledge spoiler. If fundamentally changes physiological aspects of their brains,

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Speaker 1: like pathways right like they're in the nerves, the pathways

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Speaker 1: that neurons fire and such and this, and even the

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Speaker 1: size of regions of the size and density of regions

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Speaker 1: of the brain is associated with spatial location and geography

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Speaker 1: and geometry. It's nuts. You can also see similar brain

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Speaker 1: changes in Buddhist monks who practice non violence and intense meditation.

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you, it's amazing. See. I wonder if the

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Speaker 1: opposite is true, though, because I'm so bad at directions,

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Speaker 1: that part of my brain is probably already pretty atrophied.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that I just rely entirely one and

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Speaker 1: fifty on maps, I think that part of my brain

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Speaker 1: has either gone away entirely or been replaced with like

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Speaker 1: music trivia. At this point, the memorization stuff gets gets

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Speaker 1: a little tricky because the idea of consciousness we're all

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Speaker 1: sort of songs that we sing to ourselves. That's probably

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Speaker 1: the best way to to, uh, to poetically define the

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Speaker 1: idea of consciousness. But your brain is busy and uh

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Speaker 1: that and pretty much everybody is very intelligent in one

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Speaker 1: way or another. So like, if you're not using those

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Speaker 1: parts of your brain, then yeah, it's a muscle kind

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Speaker 1: of you'll fall out of exercise. But your brains do

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Speaker 1: another stuff too. And I bet it's more than just

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Speaker 1: just trivia, because we're all we're all sponges for trivia.

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Speaker 1: But I bet, I mean, why would you don't need

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Speaker 1: the knowledge? That's why it's so impressive. Anyway, I can

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Speaker 1: talk about that one for hours, but okay, sorry, sorry,

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Speaker 1: before taxis before the amazing knowledge. Right before these studies

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Speaker 1: of the brain, other people and other cultures picked up

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Speaker 1: on the Han dynasty's testing idea, and they have many,

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Speaker 1: many other iterations of this. As government's changed in that

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Speaker 1: part of the world. Fast forward to the eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: the continent of Europe picks up this idea and runs

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Speaker 1: with it and says, all right, we're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 1: test people too. And then, of course, because the US

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Speaker 1: got a ton of its ideas from Europe and the

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Speaker 1: United Kingdom specifically, they had some form of standardized testing

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Speaker 1: in the education system since about the eighteen hundreds, but

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Speaker 1: right now, ever since about the nineteen hundreds, the US

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Speaker 1: has become increasingly dependent on standardized testing. Some people think

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Speaker 1: that's great. Some people have a huge problem with it.

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Speaker 1: I kind of bet some of those early tests, the

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Speaker 1: standardized tests in the US were more functional tests, like

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Speaker 1: if you're a journeyman or you know, an apprentice or something,

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Speaker 1: your tests would necessarily be written, but you'd have to

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Speaker 1: like make like a box or something, and then your

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Speaker 1: you know, your boss would watch you and grade you

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Speaker 1: visually make a masterpiece. Yeah, I want to quickly shout

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Speaker 1: out something called the Committee of Ten. It was a

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Speaker 1: group of educators from universities and colleges that got together

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Speaker 1: here in the US everywhere from the University of Michigan

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Speaker 1: to Harvard to Vassar. A bunch of representatives got together

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Speaker 1: from these universities and they they decided, basically, here's what

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Speaker 1: needs to be taught to kids from you know, kindergarten

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Speaker 1: to twelfth grade. Basically, here are recommendations at least of

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Speaker 1: what kids need to learn on a basic level to

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Speaker 1: be able to function within a university setting, which is

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Speaker 1: really interesting to think about. So that was like one

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Speaker 1: of the first times that within the U s there's

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Speaker 1: some kind of standard for what needs to be taught.

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Speaker 1: And then, as Ben is saying, in the early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: we start looking at, well, how do we actually test

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Speaker 1: these kids on an individual level to see if they're

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Speaker 1: matching up to the standards we want them to meet well.

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Speaker 1: And I think we all know that, like Germany is

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Speaker 1: really focused on standards and tests, and the education system

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Speaker 1: in Germany even to this day, I believe follows the

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Speaker 1: models that were probably set out way back when, like

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Speaker 1: the idea of gymnaseum, you know, and like you know,

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Speaker 1: kindergarten and all of that stuff, Like everything kind of

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Speaker 1: led to the next thing in a way that was

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Speaker 1: much more efficient than I think what we have here

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Speaker 1: and much more standardized than we have here in the

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Speaker 1: United States today. Trades and vocational school are also not

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Speaker 1: as vilified as they are in the modern United States,

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Speaker 1: which is a whole other bag of badgers for anybody

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Speaker 1: playing the bingo drinking game. So yeah, so let's let's

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Speaker 1: look at college. That We're going to talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about the testing for college and the military, because they

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Speaker 1: are hand in hand and there is a dark genesis

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Speaker 1: for both them. So there's this thing called the College

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Speaker 1: Insurance Examination Board. Um. They picture them as like the

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Speaker 1: same demographic of people in the committee attend like they

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Speaker 1: kick it. They kind of know about each other. And

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Speaker 1: this board offered their first exams in nine one. This

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Speaker 1: was entirely for the elite. UH. It was meant to

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Speaker 1: standardize admission requirements for UH POSH boarding schools and for

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Speaker 1: the IVY leagues. All well and good people, dug it.

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Speaker 1: Fast forward, World War one hits. The military institutes a

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Speaker 1: number of aptitude and placement tests, specifically the Alpha and

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Speaker 1: the Beta test. The idea here is that they will

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Speaker 1: match new recruits to specific appropriate roles in the military

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Speaker 1: based on their perceived intelligence. And I hope you hear

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Speaker 1: the italics when I say perceived, because that comes back

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Speaker 1: in a big, big way. And of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: whenever you about standardized tests, you think of the i

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Speaker 1: Q test, the Stanford Binet intelligence test that comes around

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixteen. It's been controversial ever since because parts

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Speaker 1: of it are broken. Uh. There's the what was originally

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Speaker 1: called the Scholar Aptitude Test or s A T. And

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Speaker 1: don't just know that saying s A T test is

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Speaker 1: like saying a T M machine or VIN number. You

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Speaker 1: could just call it s A T. Right. Uh, that's

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Speaker 1: nineteen six. It's invented by a guy who is a

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Speaker 1: main character of our story, but by no means a protagonist.

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Speaker 1: It's actually a tragic figure. His name is Carl Campbell Brigham.

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Speaker 1: When he invinced the s A T six. He's doing

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Speaker 1: it based on those Army tests because he created those.

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Speaker 1: And we'll Carl's gonna come back. Keep your mind on Carl,

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Speaker 1: and and don't make friends with him. Uh. Then there's

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Speaker 1: this guy, Everett Lindquist. He created the A C T

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Speaker 1: American College Testing in nineteen fifty nine. All right, So

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Speaker 1: now we're in the nineteen seventies. Individual states, that's what

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Speaker 1: the US is all about, and they kind of have

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Speaker 1: their own fiefdoms when it comes to education. So if

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Speaker 1: you are a kid in Massachusetts, you're getting a different

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Speaker 1: education from a kid in Hawaii, or a kid in

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Speaker 1: Texas or a kid in you know, Washington or something.

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Speaker 1: The education system is decentralized. This means that states control

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Speaker 1: their own systems, and frankly, some do a better job

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Speaker 1: than others. So this national testing regime that comes out

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Speaker 1: is a way for the federal government to get like

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Speaker 1: a bigger, high level view of American over education overall,

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Speaker 1: and then very soon, like increasingly as the years went on,

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Speaker 1: funding for schools got tied to test performance, which meant

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Speaker 1: that things like the No Child Left Behind Act of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one would say, hey, if you're if

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Speaker 1: your student body isn't doing well on these specific test,

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Speaker 1: then your funding will be in trouble. Uh. If you

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Speaker 1: have any teachers in your family, you know this was

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Speaker 1: tremendously unpopular. Teach the test, yes, the test well. And

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Speaker 1: a lot of that goes back to a report that

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Speaker 1: came out titled A Nation at Risk the Imperative for

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Speaker 1: Educational Reform, which occurred in ninety three, just after the seventies,

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Speaker 1: as you said, Ben, after the push for a need

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Speaker 1: to see how the nation is doing, especially when compared

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Speaker 1: to other countries, and this report, A Nation at Risk

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Speaker 1: basically stated, hey, the US is following way, way behind

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Speaker 1: on its standards for what each individual kid knows. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: an education gap, which is something that honestly is a

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Speaker 1: calculated framework because you can take people who might ideologically

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Speaker 1: say we don't want to fund more stuff unless it's

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Speaker 1: a defense initiative. But then if you phrase education as

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Speaker 1: a matter of national defense, which very much is. Then

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Speaker 1: you are you have a higher chance of getting those

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Speaker 1: people on board. I wrote an essay many years ago

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Speaker 1: that was entirely phrasing public healthcare as an issue of

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Speaker 1: national defense. Believe it is well. And also, like you know,

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Speaker 1: a buzz phrase or like a program title like no

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Speaker 1: Child Left Behind gives this sense of this egalitarian kind

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Speaker 1: of like equality for all children and education. But the

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Speaker 1: reality is just because the program exists doesn't make those

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Speaker 1: individualized kind of legacy school systems with their various resources

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Speaker 1: depending on where they're located, and then who is going

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Speaker 1: to the schools, and what kind of money is flowing

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Speaker 1: in and out of them, whether they're private, whether they're public,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make them fundamentally change. How do I hear?

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Speaker 1: Do I hear the Senator from Georgia? Right? Is he

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Speaker 1: against no Child left behind? Oh? You are against no

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Speaker 1: child left behind? Day? So you don't like children? Is

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Speaker 1: that what you're saying? You don't want children to succeed?

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Speaker 1: Sir the gentleman, Welcome back to a b conspiracy or

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Speaker 1: news at ten. We have just received word that the

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Speaker 1: Senator from Georgia has left hundreds, if not hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands of children behind in the homes and farms across

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Speaker 1: the good state, who will find them found again? And

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Speaker 1: see um. At this point you might be thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this makes sense. I understand the point standards testing, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: But why are you guys talking about it on stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know a show that applies

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Speaker 1: critical thinking to troubling subjects. Well, it's because standardized testing

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Speaker 1: is a massively troubled subject. First, just to put it plainly,

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Speaker 1: the dumbest thing, and I say this truly in a

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Speaker 1: truly affectionate manner, is that right now? For the entirety

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Speaker 1: of human history, no, not once, not never has been

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Speaker 1: able to make a real, fair and effective definition of

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Speaker 1: intelligence that everybody accepts, as evidenced by how many different

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Speaker 1: tests there are, and how many different flavors of tests,

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Speaker 1: and how much debate there is around what they're actually measuring.

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Speaker 1: In which one is liquid end quote best, because there

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Speaker 1: isn't one, otherwise there'd be like one. But there's a

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Speaker 1: ton and capitalism plays a role in that too, just spoiler,

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Speaker 1: but there's there's uh. You know, it is interesting. There

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Speaker 1: are people who have done brilliant people have done brilliant

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Speaker 1: work on this, at least in my dumb opinion. And

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Speaker 1: you'll see competing models like is intelligence multidimensional? Meaning should

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Speaker 1: we say that um quantitative intelligence is different from interpersonal

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Speaker 1: intelligence or Kinnecticut's intelligence. And then you'll have people who say, well, functionally,

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Speaker 1: intelligence should just be defined as the ability to uh

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Speaker 1: to op rate well and given circumstances or environments. That

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Speaker 1: means that someone like Albert Einstein would be very unintelligent

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Speaker 1: in the Paleolithic era because he doesn't know how to

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Speaker 1: do the things they are important to being alive at

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Speaker 1: that time. So there's a lot of understands him. He's

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Speaker 1: just he's a gibberator the whole time. You know, they

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Speaker 1: sacrifice him to like whatever uh nature thing they're worshiping

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Speaker 1: at the time. They would have just shaved his mustache

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Speaker 1: and head hair for like, you know, warmth, you know,

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Speaker 1: to make like a tiny sweater out of it, or

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Speaker 1: burning a pyre of some sort. Well, okay, first there

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Speaker 1: would have been disease spread and then secondly they probably

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Speaker 1: would have preserved his clothing as well as they could anyway. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: so many things to unpack about Albert Einstein is just

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Speaker 1: turning up in Paleolithic era. So many questions he's a

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Speaker 1: wild womanizer there, I think you would have. I don't

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Speaker 1: think you're wasted some time, um too much time before

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Speaker 1: he started chatting up the locals. But here's the problem.

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Speaker 1: The reason we're making a big deal about the attempts

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Speaker 1: to define intelligence are because at a very basic level,

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Speaker 1: you can't really test for something if you don't understand it.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the problems with ghost hunting. If there's

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Speaker 1: no way to measure a phenomenon and people have tried,

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Speaker 1: then how what are you hunting for exactly? You have

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Speaker 1: to define You have to be able to understand define

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Speaker 1: what you're looking for. And people have done this. And

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Speaker 1: we're not saying they're all flim flam artists. We're just

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Speaker 1: saying it's really difficult problem and it bears scrutiny. Second,

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Speaker 1: even though we know these tests are imperfect, we have

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge they're also based on previous tests. The s

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Speaker 1: A T comes to you courtesy of the same guy

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Speaker 1: who wrote those tests for the Army of World War One,

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Speaker 1: So they carry improvements right with each success of iteration.

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Speaker 1: There are new improvements and they are made in good faith,

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Speaker 1: but I would argue those iterations often carry the sins

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Speaker 1: of previous generations as well. It's like we were talking

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Speaker 1: about earlier. You can test whether someone can build a

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Speaker 1: wooden box by making them build a wooden box and

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Speaker 1: then watching them and seeing if they like all the

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Speaker 1: sides are the same, you know, length and all of

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Speaker 1: that stuff. Um, But it's a lot harder to test

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Speaker 1: a bigger picture intellect, something that would encompass many potential skills,

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Speaker 1: um and abilities and things that you haven't even necessarily

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Speaker 1: learned yet, right right, Like the s a t UH

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Speaker 1: is theoretically designed not necessarily to test memorization abilities so

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Speaker 1: much as to test one's ability to learn, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of what the i Q test originally is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's what it's aiming for as well. But this kind

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Speaker 1: of testing in the US in particular can be wildly

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Speaker 1: unfair due to numerous factors both inside and outside the classroom.

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Speaker 1: And though you won't hear about this in your high

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Speaker 1: school s a T prep course, a lot of these

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Speaker 1: tests have a profoundly, deeply unclean origin, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to dive into it. After a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. All right, here's the kicker,

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Speaker 1: the guy we mentioned Carl, Carl Brigham. He's more or

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Speaker 1: less the father of American standardized testing, and he's an

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Speaker 1: absolute He's a real pill. Yeah, and even worse, you

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Speaker 1: could say he's not good at his job. He was

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Speaker 1: just kind of the guy. He just became the guy.

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Speaker 1: When you invent the idea of a thing, you get

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Speaker 1: to do it kind of however you want. Gosh, well,

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Speaker 1: are you saying he's like a eugenicist or something. He

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Speaker 1: is exactly a eugenicist math. Yeah, he was super into it.

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Speaker 1: It's like eugenics was like a baby he had just had.

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Speaker 1: And every conversation you try to have with him goes

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Speaker 1: back to eugenics. It doesn't matter what you could be

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Speaker 1: talking about, you know, brunch, and he would be like, well,

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Speaker 1: of course the Nordic racist make the sup or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's what sounds like, but you

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Speaker 1: have a better relationship with the egg. Check out our

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Speaker 1: upcoming Ridiculous History episode on phrenology. Uh teaser um. So yeah.

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Speaker 1: From pretty much day one, this guy, Carl was convinced

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Speaker 1: that some people were just better than others. By any metric.

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Speaker 1: He was a psychologist, but he was a psychologist for

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Speaker 1: the purposes of being a die hard eugenicist. He wrote

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Speaker 1: a book in nine called a Study of American Intelligence.

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Speaker 1: So we're not we're not quoting propaganda by his enemies.

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Speaker 1: He wrote this stuff. You can read it. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: he said that, based on the test he had conducted

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Speaker 1: for the army, native born, white Americans were the intellectual

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Speaker 1: top dogs. And then he said also the quote Nordic

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Speaker 1: race is better than what he called the Alpine race.

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Speaker 1: The Alpine race, in Carl's mind is anyone from Eastern Europe.

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Speaker 1: It's it's very like, not wide enough for him. Wow,

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Speaker 1: But Carl seemed to know what he was talking about

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Speaker 1: for enough people who seemed to be like minded enough

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Speaker 1: that his ideas just took on like wildfire. Isn't that nice? Yeah? Oh?

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Speaker 1: He also, by the way, said that um quote Mediterranean

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Speaker 1: and uh, and black people are at the bottom of

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Speaker 1: of the hierarchy. Yeah. And you make a good point, Matt,

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Speaker 1: because it's dangerous psychologically. We know that folks like hearing

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Speaker 1: good things about themselves so much so that they won't

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Speaker 1: stress too much about whether this is actually true. This

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Speaker 1: is garbage science. But the people in power consider themselves

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Speaker 1: native born white Americans, probably descended from a New Grace,

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Speaker 1: and so they think, Okay, yeah, this makes sense. Is

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Speaker 1: why I'm at the top, because I'm just I'm just better.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to that. Does being wealthy make you a

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Speaker 1: bad person? Episode? So all right, so why are we

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Speaker 1: saying he's bad at his job? Though? Well? Uh? He

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Speaker 1: he lacked a very important facet of being a scientist, objectivity.

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Speaker 1: He lacked that entirely. Um, he had absolutely pre existing

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Speaker 1: prejudices and ideas things that he wanted to confirm with

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Speaker 1: his research. Um. And this is not how you do science.

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Speaker 1: That yields bad science almost every single time. It is

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Speaker 1: a foundational component of science that you are supposed to

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Speaker 1: not have advanced ideas of what result you are going

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Speaker 1: to get, because then it makes you kind of change

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Speaker 1: things in order to get that desired result. This is

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Speaker 1: something called confirmation bias, but on a much larger kind

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00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: of like institutional level. So in particular, he was a

429
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: big fan of eugenics, like you said, Ben, and he

430
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: wanted to support these ideas with his weird hack science. Also,

431
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: he was really against immigration, surprise, appression, And we're not

432
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: just saying like, oh, he liked eugenics. This dude was

433
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: on a board, right, Yes, yeah, he's on the advisory

434
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: Council of the American Eugenic Society. He is about that life, uh,

435
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: and he was a big wheel in the movement. So

436
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: his test, like you were saying, you all his tests

437
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: aren't really meant to objectively determine a person's mental prowess.

438
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: They're meant to give him his masters and his cronies

439
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: ammunition for their existing socio political goals. It's a conspiracy.

440
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: He thinks that he is the good guy fighting for

441
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: some sort of shining beacon on a hill. His view

442
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: of what America should be, which is namely, uh, Protestant

443
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: and white extract from Northern Europe. So he also thought

444
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: American intelligence was in a crisis point. He thought the

445
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: nation as a whole was becoming dumber because so many

446
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: people were immigrating from Eastern Europe in particular. So a

447
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff he created was meant to be

448
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: a response against and an attack on that tendency. Luckily,

449
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: there are a lot of other smart people in the space,

450
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: and even they knew this was kind of screwy uh.

451
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: In ninete, we got to introduce this guy. I thought,

452
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: I almost texted you all. It's the best name we're

453
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: gonna talk about in the show. I don't want to

454
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: hype it up too much. But this Harvard professor named E. G.

455
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: Boring said that Brigham is not collecting data with scientific purposes.

456
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: This just biased his results in favor of his own ideas.

457
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: So he's like ginning up data that makes him sound

458
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: a little less crazy, at least per doctor Boring. Gad's boring.

459
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: Dr B is in the mix. I didn't know people

460
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: are the last name boring. Well, you learned something every

461
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: every time. So he said that. So Carl responds, and

462
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: he says, look, some of these results, true, might be

463
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: affected by the quality or level of education that someone

464
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: received before they took the test. Right, He's saying, I

465
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: grant you that if someone completed tenth grade, they're probably

466
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: going to be doing better on a test than someone

467
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: who completed fourth grade. Right. But after extending that very

468
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: paltry denuded Olive Branch, he doubled down and said, the

469
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: real big difference, though, is genetics. It's just you you

470
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: if you are not born a white American or a

471
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: Nordic race. Then you're just not going to be You're

472
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: not gonna be as good. Uh and end. He soldiered on,

473
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: and he found greater success because he took his whack

474
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: and do ideas and baked them into the s A

475
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: T when he invented that in nineteen six. So this

476
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: is uh, this is a real thing. This is not

477
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory. He did this, if you're and he

478
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: didn't do it alone. He had a lot of institutional support,

479
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 1: and he had a lot of fans, including you know,

480
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: fans in Germany who would later take the idea of

481
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: eugenics and and institutionalize it on a level that the

482
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: modern world had never encountered. If you're familiar with the

483
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: world of education, you probably heard about the controversy surrounding

484
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: modern day testing. Like I I want to defer to

485
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: you guys. Um. I know we'll talk about teaching the

486
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: test in a moment, but I know there's a lot

487
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: of stress on kids, especially as they get into like

488
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: middle school, and they get into high school and they

489
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: started thinking about college and the future of vocational school,

490
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: et cetera. Do do do you guys feel that your own

491
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: children have encountered stress due to testing or did you

492
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: have stressful experiences when you were kiddos? Let me go

493
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: really fastinal, just because my son has two more years

494
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: until he gets a Georgia standardized test, So we're good there,

495
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: at least for now. And weirdly enough, the state of

496
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: Georgia suspended standardized testing for the year, and I believe

497
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: one at least in general, they did. I don't know

498
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: what happened this year. Do you have any insight? Real

499
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: they're back. They're called the milestone tests, UM, at least

500
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: in my kid's age range. She just finished sixth grade. UM.

501
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, because of that, you know, waving of all

502
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: those tests during COVID and because my kid already has

503
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: some kind of anxiety stuff probably they was exacerbated by COVID. UM,

504
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: she qualifies to get some extra time for testing because

505
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: she freezes up big time, you know, because of these

506
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: high pressure tests. And actually she was able to we

507
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: were able to get them to waive some of the

508
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: milestone testing for her again this year because of you know,

509
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: stuff that we submitted that that proved that she was

510
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: absolutely you know, struggling with this stuff more so than

511
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: just like, oh, tests suck. I'm scared of taking tests

512
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: like in like a very psychologically crippling kind of way. Well,

513
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: I know, John Oliver did a piece on standardized testing

514
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: in and one of the things that he's of course

515
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: joking about, but it's deadly serious. Is it within the

516
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: materials that anyone who's giving some of these standardized milestone tests? Uh?

517
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: Within those materials are procedures if a child happens to

518
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: vomit while taking the tests, to distress and that stuff like,

519
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: it's crazy you think about that. Yeah, And you know,

520
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: we've talked about some controversy there. I hesitate to use

521
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: this phrase because it's primarily used to manipulate people, but

522
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: in this case, it's true. It a dinner table conversation.

523
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: Testing and how you or your kids doing school is

524
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: a commonplace conversation that many many families have. But back

525
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: in the day, the problems with Carl's weird ideology and

526
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: his supremacism, those problems and how they reflected and the

527
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: test they invented were considered features. Universities loved rolling out

528
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: the s a t uh. And they loved it not

529
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: necessarily because they thought it was a good test defined

530
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: by like objectively good at measuring ability. They thought it

531
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: was a good test because it helped them filter out

532
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: what they called undesirables. As a guy named Eric Jacobson,

533
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: I think we should quote, he broke it down um

534
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: by saying, for some college officials, and aptitude test, which

535
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: is presumed to measure intelligence, is appealing because at this time,

536
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: intelligence and ethnic origin are thought to be connect it

537
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: and therefore the results of such a test could be

538
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: used to limit the admissions of particularly undesirable ethnicities. So

539
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: they knew it was rigged, the boffins at the university

540
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: in the Ivory Towers, and they loved that it was

541
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: rigged because it gave them an excuse, flimsy as it

542
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: may be, to keep their schools as white as possible,

543
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: as wasp as possible. Really, Uh tut tut. That is

544
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: not necessarily critical thinking. But but but we're talking about

545
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: modern debates. So before we talk about how this game

546
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: actually gets rigged, I think we can. I think we

547
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: should go back to the idea of teaching for the test.

548
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of those modern problems. Like Matt,

549
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: you you have teachers in your family. I do too,

550
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: Uh nol I believe your mom has taught people, um,

551
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: the finer points of of singing right of opera for sure. Yeah,

552
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: and she's taught in school settings as well, in college

553
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: and high school teaching for the test, at least the

554
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: experience I have with my mom and watching her she

555
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: was an elementary school teacher for a long time, it

556
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: was you're teaching formulas. You're teaching how to do a

557
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: specific task, or to put things together in a certain way,

558
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: or the rules that apply even in language arts or

559
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: things like that. It's not how to think critically or

560
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 1: creatively you know, of how to come up with an answer,

561
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: or how to you know, think innovatively about a subject.

562
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: It's all about what are the things I need to

563
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: know how to do and then be able to apply

564
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: those two questions asked on a standardized test. It's awful. Yeah,

565
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: it's a real thing. Though. Teaching the test is a

566
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: real thing. And because because of the way that funding

567
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: gets tied into test performances, uh, this this almost becomes

568
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: an existential matter for schools and teachers are just the best.

569
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: You know, A good teacher can make a can set

570
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: the course of someone's life. Right, you have to I'm

571
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: not saying there aren't bad teachers, but um, good teachers

572
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: can change the world. And the idea of teaching this

573
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: like teaching for the test, means that you give kids

574
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: multiple kind of dummy runs at it. You take a

575
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 1: practice s A T. Right, you take your practice g

576
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: R E. And critics say that the kind of multiple

577
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 1: choice format of things like the S A T don't

578
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: really teach what Matt is talking about. They encourage route memorization,

579
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: they encourage systematized guessing. I know that four answers in

580
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: a row won't be a so I'm gonna switch one

581
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: of them up. Now I just have to figure out

582
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: which one, and I can eliminate A and C so

583
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: I know the answer is B or D. You know, yeah,

584
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: exactly who wants to be a millionaire? I mean, it

585
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: really is like learning the four Matt. Remember those Scantron cards.

586
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: They used to be bubbles and then they switched to

587
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: little tiny rectangles. Yeah, a little weird. Yeah that was

588
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: a weird one. I want to say, like, I know

589
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: we're starting to get into the deep water here, We're

590
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: already there, but I want to say, um, now, I

591
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: think the reason that I love taking tests and I

592
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: did as a kid is because it's so validating in

593
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: in adult life. People don't give you an ad of

594
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 1: boy just because you know something. If you're like you're like, well,

595
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: actually the history of Morocco is blah blah blah blah blah,

596
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: they'll say, okay, but why why are you telling me?

597
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: You know? And if you're in a classroom setting, they're like,

598
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: great job, you get a letter with a plus signed

599
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: by a badass. So I think maybe that's just nostalgic

600
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: color in it. But this this idea I love. They

601
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: brought up scantron all because this idea of testing for

602
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: format or learning a format, memerizing things, systematizing your guessing.

603
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: This is not something that occurs justin you in the US,

604
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: and people don't stress out about testing just in the US.

605
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 1: Other countries across the world have students who are very

606
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: anxious or stressed out about the importance of an exam,

607
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: a single exam, determining, as they see it, their life

608
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: from that point. Hence uh and then there are also

609
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: tremendously stressful situations. The US is, in fact not the

610
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: most extreme example of the dangers of standardized testing. There's

611
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: a um A related case not quite the same thing

612
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: that we have to talk about. Let's go across the Pacific.

613
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what happens to society with standardized testing

614
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: in Japan. So in the Government of Japan studied forty

615
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: years of data and found that more people under the

616
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: age of eighteen in fact commits suicide on September one,

617
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: more so than any other date. So why September? Why

618
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: the first of September? UM? It is typically around the

619
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: start of a new semester in Japan, UM right after

620
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: the summer holiday. UM. And it wasn't the only time too,

621
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: because there's you know, there's another semester that begins it's

622
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: in early April. And they also noticed that suicide numbers

623
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: for children under eighteen were high at that time as well.

624
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: So it's just it's not good, right. It does show

625
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: you that pressure that we keep describing that I know

626
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: that we've all felt. I certainly felt it. And not

627
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: to nag on Japan, but I mean culturally, you know,

628
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: ritualized suicide due to a family shaming event is is

629
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: literally part of their culture, UM, and there is a

630
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: high emphasis placed on honoring you know, your ancestors and

631
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: your family and not bringing on some sort of shame

632
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: um and in the modern era, that has more to

633
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: do with success and rising through the ranks of the

634
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: educational system than just anything else. Yeah, this is tragic.

635
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: It's ongoing, and in Japan's defense, the government is aware

636
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: of this, and they've made substantive efforts to help prevent

637
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: these tests related deaths, because that's what they are, their

638
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: test related deaths. But there's a lot writing on these exams,

639
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: so parents with the means still, of course, spend loads

640
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: of time and money trying to set their kids up

641
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: for success. Extra courses, mandatory study time, tutors galore. It

642
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: is inarguably true that knowing the format of a test

643
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: and practicing that format will improve your overall scores. This

644
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: is why so many parents in the United States and

645
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: again in other countries have their kids study for tests

646
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: outside of school. It's a great opportunity for families that

647
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: can afford it, But what about the children who can't.

648
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: This is part of how the game gets rigged. We're

649
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: gonna go into the nuts and bolts of it. After

650
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. All right, hey, shout out,

651
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 1: by the way, fellow conspiracy realist, to everyone who has

652
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: been thinking about their old test scores during this episode.

653
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: We're right there with you. We were talking about it

654
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: before we recorded, right, yeah, yeah, And I mean, you know, uh,

655
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: the the s A T that I remember. I mean,

656
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know why I would have changed significantly.

657
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: It's fifty you know, language skills and and in literature

658
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: and things like that and math. I was quite good

659
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: on the the verbal portion and really bad on the

660
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: math portion. But because I was so good on the verbal,

661
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 1: it was not an embarrassing score. Mine was embarrassing compared

662
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: to you guys, at least. I'm not gonna say what

663
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: it was. But you guys are smart. Well, we uh learned.

664
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: What have we been talking about this whole time? Dude?

665
00:40:52,760 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: None of this? Okay, Well, we're gonna you know, we're

666
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: gonna go back. We're gonna make our own tests with Blackjack. Uh.

667
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do the rest of the quote

668
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: shout out to Futurama. But yeah, if you are thinking,

669
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this episode, you're thinking back about

670
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: your performance, whether you feel like it was really good

671
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: or really bad, we have some news that maybe a

672
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: bit of a comfort to you, especially if you're unhappy

673
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: with your performance on things like the A C T

674
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: or the S A T. The problem is this, it

675
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: may have well have been something with that was wrong

676
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: with the test, not wrong with you, is the test taker.

677
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: True story. S A T scores have been found to

678
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: directly correlate with family income levels, like very closely correlate.

679
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: But you can probably correlate that with the type of

680
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: college that you get into because those are often also

681
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: correlated directly with income levels, I imagine I'm just conjecturing

682
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: here for some time. Yeah, that's been the tendency. Yeah.

683
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: We've got a quote from Kim Ellisessor who's writing for Forbes,

684
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: and she says this quote. A analysis found that students

685
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: with family income less than twenty thousand dollars scored lowest

686
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: on the test, and those with family income above two

687
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars scored highest. And we're not talking about

688
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: just a couple of points. The average reading score for

689
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: those students whose family income was below twenty thousand is

690
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: four hundred and thirty three, So four thirty three, but

691
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: the average for those with income above two thousand is

692
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: five seventy. Clearly, there is a disadvantage and it's so

693
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: glaringly obvious. First Carl would have loved this for a while.

694
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: But what it means in general is that there are

695
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: intervening variables right that have a measurable effect on how

696
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: kids react to these testing regimes. Kids from wealthier backgrounds

697
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: first have more opportunities to prepare for testing and more

698
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: of a support network. And at the same time, not

699
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: only do they have those, um, you know, those expensive

700
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: tutoring classes and things like that, they also have a

701
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: lower likelihood of encountering obstacles that could impede their performance,

702
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: so they wouldn't have to do or They're less likely

703
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: to have to take care of siblings right to be

704
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: the child labor babysitter. They're less likely to have to

705
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: hold down a job while they're in high school. They're

706
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: less likely to have to transport family members to regular

707
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: medical care. The list goes on and on and on,

708
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: because of course education doesn't stop outside of the classroom.

709
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: Both the opportunities for and the obstacles in your way.

710
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: Evidence also, we have to point out, indicates strongly racial

711
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: inequality in the s A T. I think in the

712
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: s A T in particular, that's what I read most

713
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: of the research I read at least UM. I don't

714
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: know what you guys have on the A C T

715
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: or maybe other tests like uh, the L s AT,

716
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: but numerous researchers have gone back and forth about the

717
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: cause of this performance gap. Not everyone agrees, just to

718
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: be very clear with you, but the numbers are there.

719
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: The numbers are themselves in arguable. They've been verified multiple

720
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 1: times by multiple independent research institutions. So what happens next, Well,

721
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: in at least one state, this has led to lawsuits,

722
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: that's right, the lawsuits that were found on behalf of

723
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: the Compton Unified School District, specifically, in which four students

724
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: in six community organizations in twenty nineteen claimed that the

725
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: University of California was in fact violating state civil rights

726
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: laws by requiring applicants to take the S A T

727
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: or A C t UM and other standardized tests as

728
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 1: they believed. The argument was that these tests unlawfully discriminated

729
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: against disabled, low income, multi lingual, and underrepresented minority students.

730
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 1: And regardless of how you may feel about these particular

731
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: tests today, I think we've put enough stuff out there,

732
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: you know that stems from Carl Brigham and how he

733
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: kind of was the base level of these types of tests.

734
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: And then you mentioned that every subsequent test is ultimately

735
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: going to be a victim of its predecessor, and that DNA,

736
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: even if it's diluted, kind of remains as time goes on.

737
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: So lawsuits discrimination, They said, there's something wrong with this test,

738
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: and these these approaches are unfairly hindering the progress of

739
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: of other American children, just like your children, just like

740
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: anybody else. And California appears to have listened. As of

741
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: March of two, UH, the university system in California has

742
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: dropped both the S A T and the A C T.

743
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: This is huge because california It's university system is itself

744
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: the largest university system in the US, so they can

745
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: set press it. We don't know if it's going to

746
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: be just an experiment or if it ends up being

747
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: a harbinger bigger changes on the horizon. But before we

748
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: get to the future, let's return to our pal, Carl B.

749
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: Because he is the originator of this conversation. UH. And

750
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: it turns out that Carl has one last thing to

751
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 1: add about the entire quagmire we find ourselves in. Yes,

752
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty, Carl wrote a little thing, a paper

753
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: titled Intelligence Tests of Immigrant groups, in which he responded

754
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: to the criticism that have inhaled at him with all

755
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: of his writings in the twenties. Uh, and he admitted

756
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: something that those critics were actually correct. What yeah, my

757
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: bad guys. It's like party foul, I know, I know.

758
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, he did something that I think speaks to

759
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: his lack of scientific acumen. Uh. He never stopped throughout

760
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: all his test making. He never stopped to ask himself

761
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: whether all the people taking the test spoke English New English,

762
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: read it fluently and the results of his test. Further,

763
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: so that's a big thing to miss. But further, the

764
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: results of his test apparently had no correlation with real

765
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: world achievements or social success. The best way to put it,

766
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: or put it crassly, is that people he thought were

767
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: dumb sometimes did absolutely gangbusters, and people he thought were

768
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: brilliant or whatever his idea of Nordic was could also

769
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: just as easily end up being absolute knuckleheads. The test

770
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: was not able to correlate to real world success, or

771
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 1: indeed to real world acts of intelligence you could call them.

772
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 1: So the test is in a very real way broken.

773
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,280
Speaker 1: And of course, yes, we know that intelligent and worldly

774
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 1: success are not synonymous. Some of the people in your

775
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: life that you know, uh and think of as the

776
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: most intelligent people that you've ever met, they may not

777
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:16,919
Speaker 1: be successful by society's metrics. They're just two very different things. Anyhow. Yeah,

778
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: so he's wrong. This led him to finally acknowledge that

779
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: his results were without foundation. That's a quote from him,

780
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: and that his whole concept of racial differences was therefore

781
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: basically bunk. And good on you, Carl, because that was

782
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: your life's work. You worked really hard on it, and

783
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: you realized it was wrong, and you had the strength

784
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: of character at least to come clean about it. But

785
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: the damage was done. He had already poured high octane

786
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: gas on the idea of eugenics, on the anti immigration movement,

787
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: and those folks active in those movements, they already heard

788
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: the part that makes them feel good and right, and

789
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: just so, they didn't really pay attention to the retraction.

790
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, we don't need that part.

791
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: It's usually how retractions go. It start to put that

792
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: genie back in the bottle. I mean, you know, whenever,

793
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: like a big blockbuster headline makes the rounds and then oops,

794
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: we made a mistake and they print some little retraction.

795
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: People just remember the headline. Yeah, but so does that

796
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: mean the nineteen thirty one s a T came out

797
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: with a subtitle now less racist? What happened? Like because

798
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: we all still took it. I still took the s

799
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: A T. I know we all did. Like, why did

800
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: we still take it? If that happened? In Well, I

801
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: mean surely that surely the test is adjusted every year

802
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: based on something, right, I mean I can't imagine. Of

803
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: course it's not the same test that it was in

804
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: in the thirties, But like what rubric is going into

805
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: those and are they in any way changing it to

806
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: be more inclusive? We don't really have any way of

807
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: of knowing them. Oh, because you're not allowed to see

808
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: the actual questions on the s a T. You can

809
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: see questions ample questions, but it's not untill you're working live. Yeah,

810
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think a lot of the questions

811
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: now are blatantly discriminatory, Like you're not going to see

812
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: some math problem that says two filthy left handers are

813
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: out stealing children again, and one has seven children, the

814
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: other has forty two divided by seven. How many children

815
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: have been stolen this night? Um, those are the ones

816
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: that have been left behind that we have to go find.

817
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: No child left behind unless the left handed. Uh so

818
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: the sorry, we made up that problem that we're problem

819
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: left handed. I was definitely left behind. But here I am.

820
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 1: I was. I was unt handed till I wasn't on

821
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: a flex B it's not a flex My hand is

822
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: terrible with both hands, but uh, it was. It was

823
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 1: beat out of me in school when it was bad

824
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: to be left handed by the schoolmaster with this, with

825
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: this ruler, wrap your knuckles and you wrote with the

826
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: wrong hand. A little close to that. Yeah, but I

827
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: mean that's something that's happened to people in you know,

828
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: preschool and kindergarten and stuff back in the day. But

829
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: the question now becomes this, we know there's a problem.

830
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 1: There's all sorts of evidence indicating that these tests, however

831
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: well intentioned, have some fundamental flaws. So why hasn't there

832
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: been more changed? That's the question. Well, a big part

833
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: of it, unfortunately goes down to money. That's right, Like

834
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: almost everything else in the United States, standardized testing is

835
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: an industry, and uh, it's a pretty big when one

836
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: of the statue here get thrown around is that one

837
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: point seven billion dollars are spent in the US on

838
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: standardized testing every year. Uh. The originator of that of

839
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: that number, by the way, doesn't like it to be

840
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: thrown around casually. So you need to know that there

841
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: are a lot of different ways to come up with

842
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: that fin old figure. You know, are you going to

843
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: count are you going to count the time of the teachers,

844
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: the you know, instructing on the format of the test.

845
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: Are you're going to count the extracurricular activities? What do

846
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 1: you count as an expense that goes into that figure?

847
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:15,959
Speaker 1: So just so you know, we know that's a little

848
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: bit loose. UM. But then if you see problems of

849
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 1: this magnitude and you wonder why stuff isn't changing as

850
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: we say all the time, start following the money, you

851
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: know what I mean, as as far as you can

852
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: see where the financial interests lie. I just googled is

853
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: Scantron a publicly traded company? UM. I didn't get a

854
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: very clear answer, but it was founded in Egan, Minnesota

855
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two UM and they operate in cent

856
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: of the U s school districts, fifty six countries, forty

857
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: eight ministries of education, and ninety four of the top

858
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: one U S universities. So there's definitely money to be

859
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 1: made um whether or not their public. I don't believe

860
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: that's the case. They owned by something called Trance, some

861
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: capital group which I bet is public. So there you go. Yeah,

862
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: and then this doesn't even touch Pearson right, uh, which

863
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: will be familiar to anybody in the academy or anybody

864
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: has had to h pay out the nose for a

865
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 1: textbook because one appendix is different from last year's uh,

866
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 1: last year's edition. Thank you. And and to be clear,

867
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: we're dunking a little. But to be clear, the concept

868
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: of standardized testing alone is not inherently sinister, and you

869
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: need something like it. It has a lot of value,

870
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: and it has a lot of supporters. The system is

871
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: it stands now, and not all of them have a

872
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: financial horse in the race, because they understand that when

873
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: the system works, it becomes this huge meritocratic opportunity. You're

874
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: a kid from a disadvantaged background, Now you can succeed

875
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 1: based on your abilities instead of like that rotting web

876
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: of nepotism that determines so much success quote unquote in

877
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: this country. No one's arguing about that, but we're saying

878
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: the case of the specific test is clear. They were

879
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: designed by a guy who only wanted a certain type

880
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: of person, people who looked like him, to succeed. He

881
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: was also very upset about the idea of mis engineation,

882
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: which is the fancy word for interracial relationships. He was

883
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: super terrified of that, just like Anslinger, the guy who

884
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,240
Speaker 1: made a cannabis illegal. He hated fun and he hated

885
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: the idea of anything that was not really really white

886
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: folks in charge. And these these tests. Of course, people

887
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: don't agree with this guy. Nowadays they're not You're not

888
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: ever gonna see somebody an educator say, I like how

889
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 1: these tests discriminate against people. Um, but we know that

890
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: these specific tests need to be fixed. There are problems

891
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,879
Speaker 1: with them, and they are rooted in some very deep

892
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: demons of American society. That's why society needs to find

893
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 1: a better way not to make children memorize facts, but

894
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: to encourage their independent thought and their curiosity, and to

895
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: empower them for success in the future, to open not

896
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: closed doors ahead. I yield my time. Sorry, sorry, I

897
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: was ranting. No, Ben, thank you for being upon that soapbox,

898
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: because I think many of us listening agree with you, sir.

899
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: I want to shout out a few people who definitely

900
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 1: do who have given ted X talks in the past

901
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: several years. One is from Nikki Adelhi I think is

902
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: how you say it. I can't remember, has been a

903
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: while since I watched it. It's titled what standardized tests

904
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: don't measure? Uh? It is worth your times from and

905
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: another one titled Prepare Our Kids for Life Not Standardized

906
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: Tests by Ted dinter Smith. That's from both. Both of

907
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: them are ted X talks, right. They're locally put together

908
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: events for the TED group. They're not the official like

909
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,240
Speaker 1: TED talk, if that makes sense, not the official gathering.

910
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 1: But they're both great speakers and they have great messages

911
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: that are very similar to yours. Ben. Hey, I think

912
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: that's our collective message though you know we're big fashion teachers. Yeah,

913
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: and that's why that's why one thing we can end

914
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: on here, even though there are lots of problems with

915
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: the education system in every country. To be fair, we

916
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: want to give a heartfelt thanks to all the teachers, professors,

917
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 1: educators in the audience. This is personal does because we

918
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: all have we all have educators in our family. But

919
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: right now, if you want to have an action you

920
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: can do after hearing this, one of the easiest and

921
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 1: most important things you can do is think back on

922
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: one of your favorite teachers from the past, and I

923
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: highly encourage you, you remember their name, to reach out

924
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: to them. It's easier now than it ever was at

925
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: any point in history. Just reach out to them, drop

926
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: a note and thank them directly you can. It will

927
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: make their day because God knows they're not in it

928
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: for the money. I'll just add my kid just got

929
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: an A plus in math, and she admittedly hates math,

930
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: but said that it was the teacher that that was

931
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: like her favorite teacher, and that just I think that

932
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: says it all. You know, she is not a fan

933
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: of math, does not think she has an acumen for

934
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: and yet she did better in that class than she

935
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,919
Speaker 1: did just but any other class, uh, some of which

936
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: the subjects she loves, even if she doesn't think. She

937
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: likes language arts, she likes to read, she enjoys culture.

938
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: She does enjoy language arts, but felt that her language

939
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: arts teacher was a little less effective, less just say,

940
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: than her math teacher. Therefore she did not get nearly

941
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: as much out of it, and so with that we pass.

942
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: We passed the scantron to you, folks. What do you think, uh,

943
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: is standardized testing overall? Is it just fine and hunky dory?

944
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: Or are there clear steps that could help address the

945
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: shadow of conspiracy haunting this origin story? Uh? What kind

946
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: of sage is there to burn? Right? Clearly, testing in

947
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: some form has to exist, But what if anything do

948
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: you think could improve or replace the current system. We

949
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: can't wait to hear from you. There will not be

950
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: a quiz when you contact us. Just we're not those

951
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: sorts of dudes. But we are easy to find online,

952
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: maybe like a fun Instagram survey or a quiz, but

953
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: that's just more like, you know, for fun. We will

954
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: not hold any of those results against you, and we

955
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 1: we don't store them. I don't know what Instagram does

956
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: with that stuff. That's a good question. Uh. That destorbs

957
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: its own episode. Um, what happens to all those quiz

958
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: results that are in fact telling the Instagram about people's tastes? Um,

959
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll get to that one day. But you can

960
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram. Um, we are at conspiracy stuff

961
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: show on that one. All the other ones were at

962
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff That includes Facebook, um, Twitter and YouTube of course. Yes,

963
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: and if you like to use your mouth to talk

964
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: at us, at least in our general direction, you can

965
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: call one eight three three s T d W y

966
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: t K. When you call in, give yourself a nickname,

967
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,919
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what it is. It could be anything. We're

968
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: excited to hear what you choose. You've got three minutes

969
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: to leave a message. At some point in there. Let

970
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: us know if we can use your name and voice

971
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: on the air. If not, that's fine. If yes, who

972
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: and we'll be hearing from you in an episode hopefully,

973
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: or you'll be hearing from one of us calling you back.

974
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: Who knows uh. If you don't want to do that,

975
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: or you've got more to share they can fit in

976
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: that three minutes. Why not instead send us a good

977
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: old fashioned email. We read everything where you receive at

978
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want

979
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: you to Know is a product auction of I heart Radio.

980
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i

981
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

982
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.