1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: This is the Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio with 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: Scott and Michael Barr. Thank you for joining us. Each week, 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: we explore the big issues involving money and sports. On 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: today's program, we speak to one of the most powerful 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: women in the world of sports, the National Basketball Players Associations, 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: Michelle Roberts. She is the first woman to have a 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: major professional sports union in North America. I'm not stupid. 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: I know that there will be men and women who 9 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: will always question and wonder whether or not a woman 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: can in fact do anything. Of course we can. But 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: I never never occurred to me that that would be 12 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: the reason I didn't get the job. If I didn't 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: get the job, my view was going to be that 14 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: there was some man or woman who was just more qualified. 15 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: But first, let's delve into the big business of sports. 16 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: Story of the week and Scott broke this story. A 17 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: group led by former Florida Governor Jeb Bush and former 18 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: Yankees captain Derek Jeter has one at the auction for 19 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: the Miami Marlins baseball team. That's right, Michael. The price 20 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: tag one point three billion b dollars for more where 21 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: please to welcome Chuck Greenberg. He's a former owner of 22 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: the Texas Rangers. Chuck, thanks for being with us. I 23 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: want to get your response to the price tag. When 24 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: you heard one point three billion dollars for the Miami Marlins. 25 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: I think it's a reasonable price. In fact, when a 26 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: billion six was floated several months ago, I thought that 27 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: was a supportable price as well. There's tremendous scarcity right now. 28 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: Very few of these teams trade. Uh. It's an underachieving franchise, 29 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: which actually leads a buyer to be optimistic about the 30 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: ability to move the needle. With all that's happening in 31 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: the industry, I think it's a very reasonable price. Can 32 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: you make a parallel between this and the Dodgers? You 33 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: had an owner that wasn't exactly beloved by a fan base, 34 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: A media opportunity perhaps the same here. Is there a 35 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: parallel there? Sure? I mean, obviously, South Florida is not 36 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: Los Angeles when it comes to media opportunity. It's got 37 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: a somewhat mixed history in terms of the affinity of 38 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: the stand base for sports franchises. But nevertheless, as a buyer, 39 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: ideally you want to follow a seller who is less 40 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: than the loved because those can be big shoes to fill, 41 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: and particularly when it's a franchise that has underachieved or 42 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: is perceived to have underachieved in the marketplace in a 43 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: number of ways. That's the act you want to follow. 44 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: And so there are a lot of reasons why this 45 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: franchise is appealing, um and not the least of which 46 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: is that it's available. Very simply, why did it go 47 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: past a billion dollars? Well, it's, uh, you know, sports 48 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: franchisees de five the normal metrics from evaluation standpoint, because 49 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: they are there their trophy properties and they have a 50 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: different set of economics. And so in this instance there 51 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: there really hasn't been a franchise that's been available on 52 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: the marketplace since the San Diego Padres, and that's going 53 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: on close to five years now. The Mariners never hit 54 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: the market, and then before that you had unusual circumstances 55 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: with the Dodgers and and also the Rangers. When you 56 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: look at what's happening in the industry, when you look 57 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: at the rapidly rising revenues for Major League Baseball, that 58 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: fuels an increase in in revenue modiples. And when you've 59 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: got rising revenues and rising revenue modiples, more times more, eles, 60 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: a whole bunch more, and that quite reasonably gets the 61 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: price well over a billion dollars. When you look at 62 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 1: what's happening with franchises towards the bottom of the market 63 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: valuation spectrum, you know, ten years ago a franchise would 64 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: have been available for a couple hundred million dollars. Well, 65 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: because there's so much revenue rushing into the industry, particularly 66 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to local media rights, that raises the 67 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: tide for everybody. And of course, the franchise that used 68 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: to struggle now are almost entirely supported because of revenue sharing. 69 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: So when you see these enormous local media deals in 70 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: the larger markets, that actually helps fuel more revenue for 71 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: for the smaller market teams as well. So the entire 72 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: industry is extraordinarily healthy and valuations go up when that 73 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: takes place. Chuck, this isn't just anybody. This is Jeb Bush, 74 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: former presidential candidate, former governor of Florida. This is Derek Jeter, 75 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: baseball icon. These are guys that baseball owners would probably 76 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: like to have in the group. Yes, yes, under any circumstances, 77 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: but particularly with the Marlins, it's you know, it's hard 78 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: to imagine a h an individual who would come in 79 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: with a stronger set of of of a circumstances that 80 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: would lead to a tail one behind them in Florida 81 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: than Jeff Bush, given his stature, a family stature, and 82 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: of course his tenures governor and Derek Jeter, You've got, 83 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: you know, the one of the true iconic brands within baseball, 84 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: longtime resident of Florida, completely untarnished personal brand. He's his 85 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: business careers off to the triffic start with the player's tribute, 86 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: so that this is just the kind of ownership match 87 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: that would be very appealing to the industry. From what 88 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: we know of the financing, the two principal guys will 89 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: not put in the most cash. How does that work 90 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 1: when you have someone behind you putting up the money. 91 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: It's somebody else is in control. Well, it's all a 92 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: matter of the party's understanding one another and their roles 93 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: being clearly defined. Of course, all I know in this 94 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: instance is what I've read, But it appears as though 95 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: Governor Bush would be contemplated to be the mL controlled person. 96 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: Now in recent years, of the last half dozen years, 97 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: Baseball has actually modified its rules to require a larger 98 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: percentage of ownership from the individual designated as the MLB 99 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: controlled person, but those rules are always subject to an 100 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: exception being granted. They do have the opportunity a media opportunity. 101 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: The local TV deal is up in they get twenty 102 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: million dollars a year of the Marlins. That's lowest in baseball. 103 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: They don't have a naming rights partner yet for a 104 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: stadium that's going to host the All Star Game this year, 105 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: certainly a chance to move the revenue needle exists, Yeah, 106 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: no doubt. And I think one of the key developments 107 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: was you go back about six months ago, there were 108 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: rumors that the Marlins, acting on their own, were very 109 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: close to doing a new deal with Box. Because I 110 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: understand that those discussions have ceased, and that was one 111 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 1: of the key decisions that was made by current ownership 112 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: with to stop those discussions, because obviously that's the point 113 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: of attraction for an incoming buyers, the chance to kind 114 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: of deal like that themselves, particularly since then those deals 115 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: not uncommon and have a substantial amount of upfront cash 116 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: which certainly could be used to help clean up the 117 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: balance sheet after an expensive purchase. So those opportunities, the 118 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: opportunity to re established and reignite the brand locally and 119 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: drive local ticket revenue and sponsorship revenue are all things 120 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: that to an incoming ownership group would be quite a 121 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: feeling good stuff. Thank you very much, Chuck, my pleasure. 122 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: Thanks guys, that's Chuck Greenberg, the former owner of the 123 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: Texas Rangers. Still ahead on Bloomberg Business of Sports, we 124 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: speak to the head of the NBA Players Union, Michelle Roberts, 125 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: about the controversy over sitting stars in the regular season. 126 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: I get it, you don't want your marquee players not 127 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: being on the court when the game is being nationally televised. 128 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: Having said that, you also want to make sure that 129 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: Lebron is going to be able to play throughout the playoffs. 130 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: That guy gets hurt. Viewership is going down. You are 131 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around 132 00:06:52,000 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: the world. This is the Business of Sports on Omberg 133 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: Radio with Scott Sasnik and Michael Barr. She made history 134 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: on July that's when Michelle Roberts was elected as the 135 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: executive director of the National Basketball Players Association. On that day, 136 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: she also became the first woman that had a major 137 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: professional sports union in North America. Michelle, thank you very 138 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: much for joining us. Do you ever think about that accomplishment. 139 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm very proud of the fact that there is a 140 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: woman who's doing this job. It is long overdue. The 141 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: other secret about this about this sport is that there 142 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: are a lot of very talented women that are working 143 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: in this sport. Now many of us are behind the scenes, 144 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: but it is astounding to me how bright some of 145 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: the women are that I've met. Um, some of them 146 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: a lawyers, some of them are not. The ESPN W conference, 147 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: and maybe I should mention that on this air, but 148 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: this meet meeting the women that I've met who are 149 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: working in this sport is just unbelievable. So I won't 150 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: be the last, and I don't even know why I 151 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: was the first, but I clearly will not be the last. 152 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: But it's great. You can shatter the stereotype of athletes. 153 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: Probably all they be uncomfortable with a woman in charge. 154 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: It was Chris Paul who put his hand up and said, 155 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: this is our choice, everybody, let's let's take a good 156 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: look at Michelle Roberts. Yeah, so I'm told and and 157 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: to be perfectly candid. I didn't, and I'm not stupid. 158 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: I know that there will be men and women who 159 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: will always question and wonder whether or not a woman 160 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: can in fact do anything. Of course we can, um 161 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: but I never never occurred to me that that would 162 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: be the reason I didn't get the job. If I 163 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: didn't get the job, my view was going to be 164 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: that there was some man or woman who was just 165 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: more qualified and more palatable to the players. But it 166 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: never occurred to me that's simply because I was a woman, 167 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: I would not stand a chance. And thankfully and happily 168 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: I was right. Michelle, your path to this position wasn't 169 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: the traditional path that people work up different sports jobs. 170 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: You didn't work in sports. How did you get to 171 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: become the executive director of the NVP. No, I did 172 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: not work in sports. I was confident that I would 173 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: end up as a lawyer doing representing poor people as 174 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: a puppet defender for the rest of my life. And 175 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: that's what I knew I was going to do starting 176 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: at thirteen, and I was confident that that's how I 177 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: would die. Of course that didn't that didn't happen forever, 178 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: but I continued to try cases by the time I 179 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: even became aware of this position. I had been practicing 180 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: law about thirty years, had moved from doing criminal to 181 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: two civil to white collar, was doing commercial complex commercial 182 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: cases principally class action litigation. Very happy working at Scatting, 183 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: one of the premier law firms on the on the planet. 184 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: Couldn't care less. I was watching basketball because I could 185 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: now afford to h to go to go. I had 186 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: season tickets to the Wizards, but literally because a very 187 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: large case that I anticipated spending about five months in 188 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: trial and settled, so I had time to do some reading. 189 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: And I read the sports page and realized that Billy 190 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: Hunter had been terminated, but his replacement had not been found, 191 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: And I thought, that's insane. Why wouldn't that they filled 192 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: that position in twelve seconds? And then, because I had 193 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: time on my hands, I had time to think about 194 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: what was what that whole thing meant. And the more 195 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: I thank God for the Internet. If not the Internet, 196 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: I would not be here because I wouldn't have had 197 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: the ability to sort of school myself on it. But 198 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: the more I learned about the job, the more I said, 199 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: not only could I do it, but I was confident 200 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: I could do it better than anyone alive, and so 201 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: very quietly, without telling anybody applied And then I got it, Michelle. 202 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: You took this job, and we talked way back when 203 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: when you did, and I loved this comment from you. 204 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: I knew there was money in sports. Do you remember 205 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: what you finished with? I don't said I didn't know 206 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: there was this much that's money in sports. Tell me 207 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: about that learning curve and the money involved. Since I 208 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: wasn't making any of it, I didn't pay much attention 209 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: to it. And I was never of the view that 210 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: that athletes were overpaid. You know. My view was that, 211 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: you know, it was it was money, and it was fine. 212 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: I just it never occurred to me that it was 213 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: a huge booming business. If someone asked me to guess 214 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: it's happen and probably reckon one two billion dollars a year. 215 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: It's there's so much money in sports that I don't 216 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: know why people work anywhere else. Do you look at 217 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: it as Tom Cruise makes twenty million bucks for Mission Impossible, 218 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: and these guys this just falls under entertainment. It is entertainment. 219 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: It's it's it's a much tougher job. I mean, Tom 220 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: Cruise is not putting his body through what Lebron James 221 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: is putting his body through. I don't know why it 222 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: is that we all forgive Tom Cruises twenty million and 223 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: go crazy. If somebody makes less money, then he does it. 224 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: So it is entertainment, but it comes at a cost 225 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: that Tom Cruise will never have to pay. But every 226 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: single one of those players will pay ultimately with their 227 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: bodies down the road. I know I say it often, 228 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: but you have to thank television because those TV rights 229 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: and all the teams now out there can afford to 230 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: pay these superstars the big cash. Yeah. And you know, 231 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: there are folks who don't think we'll ever see a 232 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: TV deal quite like this again, And I think that 233 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: there's some things that will probably render that statement untrue. 234 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 1: But oh, there's no question. Four billion dollar deal. That's 235 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: a lot of money. You explain how the money has shared. 236 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: Some people don't understand, like the NBA negotiates that deal, 237 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: but you guys get a big yeah, at the risk 238 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: of putting people to sleep. B r I. Basketball related 239 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: income is the essentially the profit, the money that's made 240 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: in connection with the game, and we split that at 241 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: this point, it split um and so the TV deal 242 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: is part of the pot that goes is that we 243 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: share with the owners. And like the percentage went down 244 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: from last time, there was a big focus on the percentage. 245 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: Was part of your job to tell the players keep 246 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: your on the ball. Percentage may come down, but total 247 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: dollars goes up. And it was not a hard sell 248 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: because everyone understood. I mean, first of all, the money 249 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: was coming in, so we were already able to see 250 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: that we were getting a much larger share of a 251 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: much of a much larger pot. And so you know, 252 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: every prior c b A started and frankly ended, only 253 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: focused on br I split. There are other ways to 254 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: get more money in the players half of the half 255 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: of the v One of them was to take a 256 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: look at what instituted b R right, so one of 257 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: the things we wanted to focus on was making sure 258 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: that the pot actually continue to get bigger, not simply 259 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: because of the deal, but what constituted basketball related income. 260 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: That definition needed to be expanded to increase the pot, 261 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: and we did that in some significant ways. You touched 262 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: on the TV deal and said, maybe they won't be 263 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: another one like this, but maybe there will be, because 264 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: it's not just the broadcast networks anymore. You are quite 265 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: cognizant of what goes on in all the sports leagues, 266 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: and Amazon is now partnering with the NFL and Twitter 267 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: and Facebook. How do you see the landscape? Well, that's 268 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: the point TV. How game the games are going to 269 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: be watched is going to change, and that to me 270 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: allows for us to continue to be optimistic about how 271 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: we'll be able to make money on TV. So, you know, 272 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: live streaming of games, the ugly word g the gambling word. 273 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: I think that's gonna a happen and be going to 274 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: have an impact on the the number of people who 275 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: are going to be watching live games because the number 276 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: of people who are going to be engaged in gambling, 277 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: um is going to increase. And so I do think 278 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: that there are opportunities to continue to make money on TV, 279 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: but it'll be very different. It'll be a very different model, um. 280 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: And I mean just watching the way cable TV is changing. UM, 281 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: you know, there's no longer going to be a captive 282 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: market that's going to guarantee dollars to some of these 283 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: some of these networks. But I think it's going to 284 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: be a different deal. I think it can possibly be 285 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: as as lucrative, but so many other factors are going 286 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: to come into play. Coming up, we continue our conversation 287 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: with Michelle Roberts, the head of the NBA players Union. Next, 288 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: she addresses the treatment of star player Carmelo Anthony by 289 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: Nick's president Phil Jackson. It is absolutely unfair that he's 290 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: been able to get away with what is an absolute 291 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: dig at this player um and it was not only inappropriate, 292 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: but it violates the rules, both the spirit and the 293 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: actual rules. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on 294 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio around the world. This is the Business of 295 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: Sports on bloom Radio with Scott and Michael Barr. We 296 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: now continue our conversation with the head of the National 297 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: Basketball Association Players Union, Michelle Roberts. She's the first woman 298 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: to have a major professional sports union in North America. Michelle, 299 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: one major controversy during the regular season was resting star 300 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: players during the regular season. That was one that we 301 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: didn't have to fight about. I mean, at the end 302 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: of the day, you know, I get it. You don't 303 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: want your marquee players by being on the court when 304 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: the game is being nationally televised. Having said that, you 305 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: also want to make sure that Lebron is going to 306 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: be able to play throughout the playoffs, that guy gets hurt, 307 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: viewerships going down. So there was not much of an 308 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: issue with the owners trying to at least at least 309 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: acknowledge that there was a problem. We needed to do 310 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: something about the schedule, um and that was an easy one. 311 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: We agreed that we needed to do something about the 312 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: lengthening the season. We agreed that the preseason was it was. 313 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: It was a place where we could talk about and 314 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: giving guys some some opportunities not to have to play 315 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: back to backs to help us reduce the number back 316 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: to backs. There's still more to be done because at 317 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: the end of the season, you know, those those teams 318 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: that are in playoff contention want to I want to 319 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: make sure that they don't get their guys injured. And 320 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: so it's it's an issue the question. The way to 321 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: solve it, of course, is to reduce the number of games. Again, 322 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: we're on the same page with the owners. Everyone knows 323 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: you reduced a number of games, you reduced the amount 324 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: of money. Speaking of the players, there was a moment 325 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: that came up Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson, uh and 326 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna use the kind of a direct 327 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: quote from Phil Jackson here. He said that about Carmelo 328 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: Anthony after a dismal New York next season, that he 329 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: has not been able to win with us on the court, 330 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: and the inference was, well, maybe he should go off 331 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: to another team. And you came out and said, hey, 332 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: wait a minute, Uh, you can't say that. You know, 333 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: there are rules, and I didn't make them, and I've 334 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: learned to some extent accept them. And one of the 335 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: rules is that a air um, even though he might 336 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: be desperately wanting to leave a team, can't say that 337 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: he can't publicly announce his desire to leave the team. UM, 338 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: and players who have done that have been consistent with 339 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: the rules find UM. The theory is that that is 340 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: bad for the game to to to bad mouth the team. Well, 341 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: I don't think that the commissioner disagrees with me that 342 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: it is bad for the game, for owners, GMS, coaches, whatever, 343 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: to bad mouth of player UM. And I sat back 344 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: and and I thought Jackson was in comments that proceeded that, 345 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: and those comments were pretty close to the line, my view, 346 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: arguably even cross the line in terms of being critical 347 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: of this player. Um. But at that point it was enough, 348 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: and it was especially enough to me because I thought 349 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: Melo was being quite quite a quite a gentleman and 350 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: not responding earlier to what everyone else understood. We were hits, 351 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: And so I remained incredibly, incredibly disappointed that Jackson has 352 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: not been reprimanded. Um. I'm still perhaps hopeful and and 353 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: and foolishly hopeful, but it is it is absolutely unfair 354 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: that he's been able to get away with what is 355 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: an absolute dig at this player. UM. And it was 356 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: not only inappropriate, but it violates the rule, both the 357 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: spirit and the actual rules. So I'm still waiting, but 358 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm told him I might be waiting in vain. Michelle, 359 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,719 Speaker 1: let's change topics. Where do you stand on taxpayer funding 360 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: of arenas. I'd be cutting my own throat to say 361 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: that there is a problem with that. I mean, you know, obviously, 362 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: the more beautiful of the arena, the more interested that 363 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: the fans. I think it does enhance fan appreciation of 364 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: the game. Having said that, as a taxpayer, it is 365 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: astounding good. Let's put it this way. In my civilian life, 366 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: if I were in the city council, I'd have been 367 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: one of those no votes. But you know, as as 368 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: someone that that works in this sport, Um, I seed 369 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: the advantages that that it does bring to have a 370 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: to have a spectacular arena that that can attract fans. 371 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: I hope the fans are they're paying for it. This 372 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: recent contract that came up that was negotiated, it pretty 373 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: much went smooth and clean compared to some other negotiations. 374 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: I guess I wonder what was the secret in this negotiation, 375 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: what was the aha moment compared to what happened in 376 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: the past. You know, I think that the real difference 377 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: was there was no Billy Hunter and there was no 378 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: David stern Um, and I think those men had so 379 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: much history that they were doomed to repeat it. Um. 380 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,719 Speaker 1: You know, Adam had been engaged obviously in CB negotiations 381 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: since he's worked at the league for a while, but 382 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: he had not been in that seat. And we went 383 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: out of our way to just make it just be 384 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: different and feel different. And that wasn't hard for me 385 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: since I wasn't there. I mean, everyone was trying to 386 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: figure me out, right, and so we had a different team. No, 387 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: I mean to the extent there were members of the 388 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: team that had baggage, and I at least insisted to 389 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: be kept out of the room, UM that we behave 390 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: like adults and stopped focusing solely on br I. So 391 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: we know, we did this subcommittee the model. UM. We 392 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: agreed on the varying issues both economic and noneconomic, that 393 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: we want to talk about, and then split into subcommittees 394 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: and had meetings simultaneously, and and and actually started working 395 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: on things that we could either agree on or we 396 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: didn't disagree as much on. And so I've noticed that 397 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: we were checking things off the box. And when you 398 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: started to sort of get into a pattern of realizing, oh, 399 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, we actually can make progress, then you do 400 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: make progress. That's Michelle Roberts, the head of the NBA 401 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: players Union. Up next, Michelle recalls a conversation the Knick's 402 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: Carmaro Anthony had with the owner of the Milwaukee Bucks 403 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: West Eaton's during a break in negotiations between the players 404 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: and the owners. He and Melo were just having a 405 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: conversation about brexit. Nine percent of Americans don't even know 406 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: what that is. And I'm watching a stupid athlete and 407 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: using air quotes. By the way, UM having a very 408 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: very high level conversation. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of 409 00:20:52,080 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world. This is the 410 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio with Scott Sashnik and 411 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: Michael Barr. We continue our conversation with one of the 412 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: most powerful women in sports. She's Michelle Roberts, who became 413 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: the first woman that had a major professional sports union 414 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: in North America when she was asked to leave the 415 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: NBA Players Union. Michelle, how helpful was it to have 416 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: star players like Lebron, Steph Curry, Carmelo Anthony engaged in 417 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: the negotiations. When these guys talk, people listen, and they 418 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: did listen. I mean, we had the Cleveland's owner was 419 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: on Dan Gilbert was on the labor committee. Um they 420 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: had I I liked him quite a bit. At Golden State, 421 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: we had Boston, we had Milwaukee. I mean, the owners 422 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: were respectful, and I think it's because we were respectful. 423 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: What I really appreciated a moment. But we probably had 424 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: nine meetings all told. But there were meetings when you know, 425 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: the lawyers, the league, the p A shut up and 426 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: you'd see players and owners inspect engaged in dialogue. And 427 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: conversation that was. I wish we could have recorded that 428 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: because I think that everyone should understand that that's what 429 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: this thing is all about. And Adam had had the 430 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: same good sense that I did too when that happened, 431 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: just let it happen and let it be organic, and 432 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: so it was just a different feel. David turned Adam. 433 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 1: They didn't listen to me. Michael, I have said forever 434 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: these sessions should be recorded because here's a big buzzword 435 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: in sports these days. Ready, it's content. Content. You could 436 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: have shown that on ANBA dot com. You could have 437 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: stream it on your website. I listen to you every day. 438 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: I agree. You see, I'd like to see Michael Jordan's 439 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: owner talking to Lebron James and the franchise as union. 440 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: What does that look like? What does that sound now? 441 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: I agree? I mean, you know, in retrospect, it sounds 442 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: like a great idea. At the time, you know, we 443 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, we wanted to keep negotiations out of the media, 444 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: so a lot of it was to try to take 445 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: this seriously. But I will I will say this, I 446 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: will go to my grave recalling some of the moment um. 447 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: My favorite was a side conversation. Actually it was who 448 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: was the Milwaukee Bucks owner, Mark Lazarie or West? It 449 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: was West? Uh. He and Melo were just having a 450 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: conversation about Brexit and I sat there and just during 451 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: a break, and I sat there saying, of Americans on 452 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: this is before the vote, and they would start contemplate 453 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: what would happen if it passed? Nine percent of Americans 454 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: don't even know what that is. And I'm watching a 455 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: stupid athlete using air quotes, by the way, um having 456 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,239 Speaker 1: a very very high level conversation with you know, and 457 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: and it was it was magnificent. I wish that's the 458 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: kind of content I would love to put on, But 459 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: watching Chris Paul and Michael Jordan's sort of go back 460 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: and forth about free agency, I can't make that. Should 461 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: we tell our audience that Mark last week is going 462 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: to be on the program in a couple of weeks, 463 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: I'm telling And I already brought the cokes man, so 464 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: I'm all set. But you said something in a little 465 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: lighter moment, and you're an NBA fan too, how do 466 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: you separate that you're representing the players and then you realize, hey, 467 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: I am a fan of this player. Too. It was 468 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: harder initially bright because like everyone you know, I was 469 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: meeting people who I would I admired. But then then 470 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: after a minute he realized that this is this is 471 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: my job, right, And when when we're able to have 472 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: real conversations about workplace issues, then you all the fans 473 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: stuff goes away because they're not interested in giving me 474 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: an autograph. They're interested in answers, and my job is 475 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: to provide it. So you know, every now and again 476 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: I will feel a little star struck, but most of 477 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: the time and that's fine, and that's that's that's right. 478 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: That's part of the reason I love the job. But 479 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: most of it is actually solving real problems, and that's 480 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: that's what I'm paid to do. Magic Johnson told me 481 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: years ago when he wanted to get involved in business, 482 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: he could go into some CEO's office, but if he 483 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: couldn't articulate or no his stuff, as he said, the 484 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: CEO would ask for an autograph for his kids and 485 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: send him pack and your guys that I don't know 486 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: when it changed, maybe it was Michael or maybe a 487 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: little after my but there has been a growth in 488 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: players understanding the value of their brands. Of what they 489 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: can accomplish, of their global audience. Everything has changed for players. 490 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: How do you help them with them? You know, it's 491 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: much remarkable is for most of them. I don't know. 492 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: I just I sort of remove barriers, but it is incredible, 493 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: especially and I don't want to say exclusion. I'm not 494 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: saying exclusively our marquee players, but but our marquee players 495 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: are and all of them are on some levels CEOs 496 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: of their own brand. And they those who are most 497 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: successful have obviously gotten there without me. But to the 498 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: extent that I can be of value, it's to eliminate 499 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 1: any any any new or threatened barriers to their ability 500 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: to grow their brand. We have and continue to try 501 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: to improve on the programs for those players who are 502 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: new to this, who don't really understand our being just 503 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: horribly advised. Um, and so you know, the interest is there. 504 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: I think Michael actually did started. He he became a 505 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: brand in a way that no other player and said 506 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: because they were obviously great players that preceded him, but 507 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: he understood the business of basketball in a way that 508 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: I don't think many of his predecessors did, but just 509 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: about all of his successors do. And so this is 510 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: a business. And our guys, even on our discussions about 511 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: group licensing, they get it. I mean, but we don't 512 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: have to spoon feed anybody. They get it. They understand 513 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: the value of the brand. How we're enhancing the value 514 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: of the brand. Why it is that we can probably 515 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: do a better job. If not, no, I don always 516 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: say probably will do a better job and promoting the brand. Um, 517 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: these are businessmen who get that their bodies are the 518 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: way that they make a living. It's it's not simply 519 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: playing a game. It's business. And you brought up the 520 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: group license. There's been a shift now and all this 521 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: branding is fueling that. The way it used to work 522 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: was the NBA would have cut you guys a check 523 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: and that got distributed to all your players. They could 524 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: use the likenesses and video games and soft drink sneakers 525 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: and things like that. You changed all that. You said, no, no, no, 526 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: we can do that better. So now you've taken that 527 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: in the house. What sort of monumental challenge is that 528 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: and what do we expect it to look like? Well, 529 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: we knew we wanted to take them back, um, but 530 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: we you know, we didn't needed to because I'm not 531 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: going to do anything wrong. So we needed to understand 532 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: the value of what we had and figure out how 533 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: whether or not it made sense to take it back 534 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: UM and if we did, how we could in fact, 535 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, build a brand and enhance the brand. The 536 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: real challenge was I didn't have anybody on staff that 537 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: had any experience in marketing or licensing at all. UM. 538 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: I ended up hiring a CMO UM and he had 539 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: no staff because again we were need We needed to 540 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: figure out whether or not there was any wisdom to 541 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: this this grand plan. M having decided and spent two 542 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: years literally just understanding the market, understanding me what the 543 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: and the League had done, what other p as had done, 544 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: and being convinced that we could do it and we 545 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: could do it better. We now have to create infrastructure. 546 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: So I am spending more hours than the Good Lord 547 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: has given me getting helping to get a staff ready, UM, 548 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: getting space, you know, understanding again the transition that we 549 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: have to go through with the lead because obviously the 550 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: League has hasn't continues to cut deals UM, calming the 551 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: market because people are concerned understandably that oh my god, 552 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: what are they doing? Are they going to destroy this? 553 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: I mean, the Nikes is a new sponsor with the league, 554 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: and we've had to make sure to make sure they 555 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: understand we're not going to disrupt to blow anything up. 556 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: So there aren't enough hours in the day. But it's nothing. 557 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: There's nothing more exciting than this, and the players are 558 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: completely and thoroughly engaged. It's it's it's fun and we're 559 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: creating something that never been done by this union, though 560 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: it's been done quite successfully by others and we haven't. 561 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 1: We're getting a lot of help from our sister as 562 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: you say, brother unions in that respect. If there was 563 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: one thing, as my father used to say, got rest 564 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: his soul, we got to do something about this here. 565 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: What would that one thing be in the league that 566 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: needs to be changed. It's the one. It probably gonna 567 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: be the hardest thing we do. Um I have to 568 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: organize the d League in terms of maybe being a 569 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,479 Speaker 1: fully fledged minor league or who can go or in 570 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: what regard? Is it just it's because they the de 571 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: League is expanding the league, I think wisely appreciates that 572 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: there is room for another league that can complement the NBA. 573 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: UM and it is and they're only comfortable with it 574 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: if they can control it. So you will see in 575 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: the next few years that every current NBA team is 576 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: going to have a D League affiliate. I mean that's 577 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: almost the case now, um. And there's already consistent with 578 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: the new cb A. We're gonna have these two two 579 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: way players, UM, where guys can be under contract to 580 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: an NBA team but detailed to the D League with 581 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: some ability to come up UM. And we did that 582 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: in exchange because if you think it's a good idea, 583 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: and then be because it was a way to get 584 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: some more roster space. He's sitting on the bench. And 585 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: you know there are also some players who don't want 586 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: to have to go to Europe or else where to play, 587 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: and there's an opportunity to to stay here and and 588 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: learn how to become an NBA player, UM, and and 589 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: be able to do it at home and make some 590 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: decent money. Those are the two way players, the D 591 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: League players. I mean I frequently, not sense didn't say frequently, 592 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: but on occasion we'll get a phone call or a 593 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: player will get a question from a D League player 594 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: that will ask, well, what about us, and it it, 595 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: frankly is a fair question. And so we've got to 596 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: figure out how we can do something about that. That league, 597 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: which is we can't ignore anymore because you know, I've 598 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: go to team meetings and I'll be told that well, 599 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: so and so it's just been sent down to the 600 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: D league, So I can't ignore it. Are you looking 601 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: at wearable technology at all? The NFLPA just signed a 602 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: deal with Yeah, but this is an exploding sector, especially 603 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: for athletes because they like to use it in their 604 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,239 Speaker 1: personal training. Anyway, right now that we now that we 605 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: again have our have our group licensing rights back, we 606 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: are exploring opportunities in that space. You know. For the 607 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: first thing that everybody has to sort of get resolved 608 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: is who owns the data? I think the answer is 609 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: is unquestionably clear. The players do. And the NFL deal 610 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: it was the players own the dead It presupposes that. 611 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: But and with this sort of ugly secret that no 612 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: one's really wanted to talk about, is that that may 613 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: that may be a fight that that is is going 614 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: to be had between the leagues and the players associations. 615 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: I mean, there's I think is coming back. Well, you know, 616 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: I can't help it. When I smell a fight, I 617 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: actually get a little excited, and so I think that 618 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: there may be, but it was one of the issues 619 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: that we sort of left unresolved in our negotiations, and 620 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: and I don't want to get ahead of the nfl 621 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: PA's decision about what it has to say on this question. Obviously, 622 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: having negotiated this deal with who does suggest that that 623 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: they agree with me that it belongs to the players 624 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: and the players have the right to monetize it um. 625 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean that's that's obviously something that we're 626 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: looking at and intend to to engage in. Michelle, thanks 627 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: very much for joining us. Thank you, Michelle, thanks for 628 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: having me. That's Michelle Roberts, the executive director of the 629 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: National Basketball Players Association. You have been listening to Bloomberg 630 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world. We 631 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: are here each and every week at the same time, 632 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: exploring the world money and sports. I'm Michael Baugh and 633 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm Scott Sashnik. Thanks for joining us. Please tune in 634 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: next week when we speak with Golden State Warriors owner 635 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: Joe Laco.