Speaker 1: Very pleased to be joined on this episode of the
Speaker 1: Warning podcast by Jason Smart, who is in Kiev, Ukraine. Jason, welcome,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Steve.
Speaker 2: Good to see you.
Speaker 1: Why don't we start out by you telling the audience
Speaker 1: how long you've been in Ukraine what it is that
Speaker 1: you're doing there.
Speaker 2: So I've been in Ukraine since about twenty fifteen, pretty
Speaker 2: steadily since then, and I'm currently a journalist for the
Speaker 2: Kiev Post, the largest English language newspaper in the country
Speaker 2: that's been in existence since nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about life in Kiev this Christmas season,
Speaker 1: heading into winter.
Speaker 2: So recently it's been sort of complicated. There's been a
Speaker 2: series of missile strikes. Yesterday, I think there's five air
Speaker 2: raid warnings, and Ukraine has been fortunate thanks to specifically
Speaker 2: American Patriot missiles, has been able to shoot down a
Speaker 2: lot of the missiles that are coming into the territory.
Speaker 2: The last Christmas was far worse without the air defense.
Speaker 2: Ukraine was getting hit regularly. There's losing electricity, and it's
Speaker 2: so bad that walking down the streets of Kiev you
Speaker 2: couldn't hold a conversation with somebody by your side because
Speaker 2: there's so much noise in the generators. There's just so
Speaker 2: many generators everywhere, you just gonna have a conversation. So
Speaker 2: we're past that point. At this point, they are able
Speaker 2: to shoot a lot of them down. Yet the Irani
Speaker 2: made drones are still almost daily hitting Ukraine. They try
Speaker 2: to figure out where the air defense is located, and
Speaker 2: then they try to exploit in various infrastructure targets that
Speaker 2: they have. And that's in addition to the fact that
Speaker 2: the ballistic missiles, those that are produced by Russia, as well,
Speaker 2: as it seems done now, missiles that are produced by
Speaker 2: North Korea and Iran are also going to be used.
Speaker 1: What is the rale of the Ukrainian people in this moment?
Speaker 1: Is it defiant, exhausted, resolved? How do they assess the
Speaker 1: counter offensive, its status? And how do they assess the
Speaker 1: politics of the country right now heading into twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: So I would say that the morale overall in the
Speaker 2: population remains very resolved. There's certainly a desire to defeat
Speaker 2: Russia that's not changed at all. I can't even imagine
Speaker 2: how people would respond if you're ask them, do you
Speaker 2: think it's time to kind of deal with Putin, nobody
Speaker 2: would accept that argument. That being said, obviously they recognize
Speaker 2: there's been setbacks with things like the counter offensive. Those setbacks, though,
Speaker 2: we're not something that we can blame just in one place.
Speaker 2: Let's be fair, for a forour kilometer by four kilometer,
Speaker 2: which is, you know, two and a half mile by
Speaker 2: two and a half mile large area, they uncovered about
Speaker 2: twenty thousand land mines on the Russian side. That many
Speaker 2: landmines obviously slows things down, especially when there's not sufficient
Speaker 2: amount of demining equipment. But more at that point, I
Speaker 2: think that on the Ukrainian side there remains a very
Speaker 2: strong desire to see victory. The president of the country, Zelenski,
Speaker 2: has an approval rating that's above eighty percent. It's probably
Speaker 2: about eighty eight percent of our call correctly, and this
Speaker 2: is all addicted to the fact that the population is
Speaker 2: very united. I mean, they recognize this. His genocidal Vladimir
Speaker 2: Putin has been very clear, and it was clear yesterday
Speaker 2: when he had his annual address the press that his
Speaker 2: intention has not changed. He wishes to conquer Ukraine. He
Speaker 2: also signaled very clearly that after Ukraine, there's other things
Speaker 2: in the work such as the country in Moltova and
Speaker 2: including the Baltic states which are all NATO members. Vladimir
Speaker 2: Putin is unrepentent. He is complete decided that this is
Speaker 2: what he wishes to be, the hill that he dies
Speaker 2: on if it needs to be. And Russia is lost
Speaker 2: over three hundred thousand troops casualties I should say necessarily died,
Speaker 2: but to those who have died it's well over one
Speaker 2: hundred and senty thousand. This point, Russia is just bleeding
Speaker 2: out men and he will not stop.
Speaker 1: What is the casualty count or the Ukrainian armed forces
Speaker 1: at this.
Speaker 2: Point, so the numbers aren't public. Ukraine doesn't publish them,
Speaker 2: but it is estimated to be less than half of
Speaker 2: what the Russians are. And it's surprising at first, it
Speaker 2: seems not feasible. It seems, you know, it's just sort
Speaker 2: of like propaganda. But the fact is it make sense.
Speaker 2: Russia doesn't respect the lives of its soldiers. It does
Speaker 2: d mind fields, using the soldiers to run across them.
Speaker 2: These are generally to be fair, not something to do
Speaker 2: with all soldiers, specifically the ones that are, for instance,
Speaker 2: prisoners who they forced to go to the war or
Speaker 2: ethnic minorities, they use them for the same purposes. Those
Speaker 2: that have AIDS or other diseases that are communicable, they
Speaker 2: use for purposes such as this. So that this is
Speaker 2: something that Russia has used as sort of a stape
Speaker 2: of the war, which is that they're ken father. They're
Speaker 2: happy to send them off in droves and very few
Speaker 2: might return.
Speaker 1: Are there public estimates or government estimates of how many
Speaker 1: Ukrainian women and Ukrainian children have been raped by Russian
Speaker 1: soldiers or Russian mercenaries or Russian parabilitaries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's at the prosecutor's office a lot of cases open,
Speaker 2: about ninety thousand cases of rape and sexual assault, the
Speaker 2: majority of which were against small children as well as
Speaker 2: against elderly women. And in the case sickly enough, is
Speaker 2: the same for both the Russian soldiers who have been
Speaker 2: captured and who've been dud has said that it's because
Speaker 2: they don't run away as fast, so it's easier to
Speaker 2: get them. So the rape of children has become so
Speaker 2: significant that they're the psychologists here overwhelmed by it. Some
Speaker 2: of the interviews which you can find online, you're not
Speaker 2: hard to find what the psychologists have said about. You know,
Speaker 2: they've just for no specific reason castrated little boys, raped
Speaker 2: girls to death, raped little girls or little boys to
Speaker 2: death in front of their parents, and then raped the
Speaker 2: mother to death. This is something that Russia has engaged
Speaker 2: in Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Is there an official count, precise count of how many
Speaker 1: children have been kidnapped by those Russian forces who have
Speaker 1: raped upwards of ninety thousand people and taken them ease?
Speaker 1: How many children are missing?
Speaker 2: So tragically we know about only twenty thousand, though it's
Speaker 2: estimated being one hundreds of thousands. Like in the case
Speaker 2: of the rape of children, we only know about it
Speaker 2: when they have made it to the free Ukraine, that
Speaker 2: is to say that their parents are in the unoccupied territories.
Speaker 2: Those who remain occupied territories, there's no way of knowing
Speaker 2: what's occurred. So the number of rapes, for instance, their
Speaker 2: murders is undoubtedly much higher. The numbers of people that
Speaker 2: be kinnapped us much higher. Simply the parents are not
Speaker 2: in free Ukraine, they are occupied Ukraine, and so there's
Speaker 2: no way for the Ukrainian Prosecutor's office to know that
Speaker 2: this has occurred. But it is estimated that the reality
Speaker 2: is that though it is about twenty thousand that's public
Speaker 2: UNNI of children who have been abducted from their parents,
Speaker 2: many of them who then have their names changed when
Speaker 2: they move to Russia. The reality is that the numbers
Speaker 2: are going to be multiple times higher than that.
Speaker 1: How is the building Maga Republican opposition to arming Ukraine
Speaker 1: being covered in Ukraine? How has President Zelensky's visit to
Speaker 1: the United States been covered domestically in Ukraine? Is it
Speaker 1: through a prism of worry that American support with regard
Speaker 1: to funding for the lethal weaponry necessary to repel the
Speaker 1: Russian military will be cut off?
Speaker 2: Sadly, To be frank with you, yes, there is quite
Speaker 2: a few about that. There's a lot of lack of
Speaker 2: understanding of why this is. The Ukrainians can understand why.
Speaker 2: You know, We've just a year ago said they were
Speaker 2: allies and we'd stick it out with them, and today
Speaker 2: the United States has decided that it's got other priorities.
Speaker 2: I keep in mind, this is a country where their
Speaker 2: abduction is going on today. There are people of both sexes,
Speaker 2: of all ages being raped to death today. There are
Speaker 2: people that are pits being tortured in eastern Ukraine, and
Speaker 2: the atrocity is just fancy you've never had imagined in
Speaker 2: your life. And they do not understand why it is
Speaker 2: that there is a growing group of Americans who just
Speaker 2: do not have any sympathy for their plight, who write
Speaker 2: it off the things that are nonsense, such as you
Speaker 2: know the corruption. Listen, there's tons of oversight of the
Speaker 2: money going to Ukraine, just absolutely tons that he was
Speaker 2: twelve or thirteen different government agencies that are looking into
Speaker 2: an oversight of the money. There's not been any prompts
Speaker 2: so far. And they don't understand why is that Americans
Speaker 2: are going to hang them out to dry, to a
Speaker 2: bunch of bloodthirsty savages that have nothing else in their
Speaker 2: minds than they commit genocide. And that's what we see
Speaker 2: a current today.
Speaker 1: Well, they have to have some idea what do they
Speaker 1: think it is?
Speaker 2: They really don't. They're very scared by it because in mind,
Speaker 2: the Ukraine perspective on this is they read in the
Speaker 2: news that the US is tying and support for their
Speaker 2: country to immigration. They have no idea what US immigration
Speaker 2: is like, why that's a big deal. They have no
Speaker 2: idea how you tie bills together in the US. These
Speaker 2: are all things that are very foreign to them, So
Speaker 2: it is not something that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: They just understand that for some closing this border or
Speaker 2: whatever it is the Americans wish to do is something
Speaker 2: that's more important than what's happening to their population. They
Speaker 2: truly don't have a strong understanding. There's obviously, yes, a
Speaker 2: great deal of apprehension about the return of Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: There's a great deal of fear of what that might mean.
Speaker 2: Just today I was with the journalists who asked, you know,
Speaker 2: Trump has promised in the world twenty four hours. Do
Speaker 2: you think that means to just give the whole territory
Speaker 2: over to Russia? What do you think that is? Some mean, yes,
Speaker 2: there's significant concern in the population.
Speaker 1: When you look at it from Kiev. Who are the
Speaker 1: Americans that are viewed by the Ukrainians as being Putin's
Speaker 1: most astonishing, useful idiots. Who are the Americans that they
Speaker 1: see and revile as being on the other side of
Speaker 1: this fight, being on the Russian side?
Speaker 2: Well, undoubtedly Tucker Carlson has a special place in their hearts.
Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson is so widely cited in Russian news it's nightly,
Speaker 2: literally every single night, for that matter, there's a YouTube channel.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you can find YouTube if you just take
Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson Russian and you see his television shows are
Speaker 2: being translated to Russian. Who's paying for that? Where's it
Speaker 2: come from? But whatever it is, the Russian government or
Speaker 2: whoever is behind it is so pleased by it that
Speaker 2: it is translating tons of episodes, especially the key parts,
Speaker 2: and using them, and the fact that it's showing up
Speaker 2: routinely is amazing. Alex Jones is another great example. He's
Speaker 2: been on Russian TV. He cited as a person fighting
Speaker 2: for freedom in America who has been oppressed. The Russian
Speaker 2: press just loves him, and so we look at these guys.
Speaker 2: You know, if Russian press is highlighting you as an
Speaker 2: example of what's good about America, you're probably actually the
Speaker 2: worst part of America. And that's what Russia has tried
Speaker 2: to really put an effort to expose their population into morows.
Speaker 1: What Republican members of the Senate and or Congress are
Speaker 1: you routinely saying on Russian state TV, Russian propaganda channels
Speaker 1: and outlets.
Speaker 2: So the different congressman, senators, it varies anytime they see
Speaker 2: something to oppose Ukraine or any time that they come
Speaker 2: up and use Ukraine sorry Russian talking points, it is cited.
Speaker 2: I mean, Russia is constantly on the hunt for who
Speaker 2: it is they can cite as an example. Who is
Speaker 2: it we can say is an example that there is
Speaker 2: really a lot of support in America for what we're doing.
Speaker 2: What we're doing is not, you know, grossly unethical, but
Speaker 2: in fact Americans support it. And I think that when
Speaker 2: we look at it as a whole, I would say
Speaker 2: that there's a few who are really their favorites. The
Speaker 2: congress woman from Georgia or Marjorie Taylor Green is obviously
Speaker 2: at the very top of the list. Is routine inside it.
Speaker 2: By the way, she also cites Russian government sanctioned by
Speaker 2: the US government, sanctioned news sources, and they're sanctioned for
Speaker 2: him to try to mess in the US elections. But
Speaker 2: they are literally government propaganda. It's nonsense. They're completely nonsense.
Speaker 2: Things Zelenski buyings in France and literally baseless, literally basis
Speaker 2: and you could say the same thing about me and
Speaker 2: I have the same degrie of truth. It's just baseless,
Speaker 2: and that sided by people like this, I mean, I
Speaker 2: will say yes, the Magropublicans in Poling are the least
Speaker 2: supportive of Ukraine out of any demographic in America. They
Speaker 2: believe essentially conspiracy theories about Ukraine. They believe things that
Speaker 2: are nonsensical, and they also have a very nonsensical view
Speaker 2: of Russia as a country. It's defending Christian values or
Speaker 2: somehow defending traditional family values, which is just simply not true.
Speaker 2: Russia does none of the above. Russia is a criminal
Speaker 2: state runlive Vladimir Putin, who's the mafia don And anyone
Speaker 2: who thinks otherwise should really just take a look at
Speaker 2: what is Russia. That is a terrifying country with a
Speaker 2: population that's quite brainwashed. And there is sadly yes US
Speaker 2: congressman or senators who somehow think that it's a light
Speaker 2: to the east and nothing to be further from truth.
Speaker 1: Do you get the sense sitting in Ukraine that the
Speaker 1: war is yet to escalate to its full potential?
Speaker 2: The war will worsen, I mean undoubted will. Listen, the
Speaker 2: Russians have located here in Ukraine an estimated six hundred
Speaker 2: thousand troops, at least what Putin said yesterday, the estimate
Speaker 2: prior to yesterday have been about four hundred and fifty thousand,
Speaker 2: so let's say it's you know, five hundred something at least.
Speaker 2: The Ukrainian military is quite large, but it's still really
Speaker 2: slightly larger than the Russian military. The advantage of Ukraine
Speaker 2: has though, as it suffers far less losses, and thanks
Speaker 2: to specifically the American technology that is here, the military hardware,
Speaker 2: it is able to defend itself and to suffer less
Speaker 2: losses than the Russian stew and to evacuated soldiers more
Speaker 2: efficiently than the Russian stew and since so there's survival
Speaker 2: rates much higher. That being said, you know, Russia has
Speaker 2: no intent of stopping what it's doing now, and so
Speaker 2: we can expect that Vladimir Putin, as he becomes more
Speaker 2: frustrated by this war, will engage in other human rights
Speaker 2: atrocities in the bombing of cities as he currently does,
Speaker 2: and to just continue this. But I think there's another element,
Speaker 2: which is that there is a lot of evidence that
Speaker 2: Russia is trying to stir up tensions in other countries,
Speaker 2: including in the Balkans, including Moldova, in order specifically to
Speaker 2: distract from what's going on here so that he'll have
Speaker 2: more of a free hand and less attention will be
Speaker 2: placed on him.
Speaker 1: When you assess the situation, to what degree do you
Speaker 1: think that Vladimir Putin is calculating that Donald Trump will
Speaker 1: be elected president in November twenty four take office in
Speaker 1: January twenty five. A precipitate, a constitutional crime is domestically
Speaker 1: and be attempt to or resolved to withdraw America from
Speaker 1: its NATO obligations, which are harder to do than the
Speaker 1: MAGA spokespeople allow, but nevertheless concernedly signal that countries that
Speaker 1: America is obligated to defend under Article five, including the
Speaker 1: Balitic republics, would not be defended and leaving them naked
Speaker 1: outside of America's deterrence perimeter. What degree to which do
Speaker 1: you look at the situation and see that the Putin
Speaker 1: is just holding on waiting for that to happen.
Speaker 2: You know, I would generally agree with that assessment. So
Speaker 2: I think that Donald Trump is something that is the
Speaker 2: hope for Varmora Putin, and as time goes on, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think that's part, isn't talking point. I think
Speaker 2: that is accurate because I see enough of what's happening
Speaker 2: in Russia that affirms that listen, I read the Russian
Speaker 2: news every day, obviously speak Russian, and I'm telling you
Speaker 2: when you read the Russian news and you read what
Speaker 2: their television channels, the Kremlin Finance Telvin channels, when they
Speaker 2: say things such as our friends that Republicans are doing
Speaker 2: this right now, or we're closer to victory and Donald
Speaker 2: Trump will join us for how should you interpret that?
Speaker 2: I mean, to me, it is a very scary thought
Speaker 2: that there is not just I mean, I understand all
Speaker 2: countries will have a preference in an election. That's normal,
Speaker 2: but the fact that they consider it to be their
Speaker 2: ally being elected who will help them to conquer Ukraine,
Speaker 2: I find it to be just sickening. I mean, it
Speaker 2: is truly. I don't remember this ever once Russian history
Speaker 2: in its relation to the United States, where the Russians
Speaker 2: have been so unambivalent about the fact that one of
Speaker 2: the two candidates is someone who is going to help
Speaker 2: them to win, and then the fact that they are
Speaker 2: citing people who the same guy Donald Trump cites, such
Speaker 2: as Tucker Carlson. The people who are the most loudmouthed
Speaker 2: in the mag of movement are exactly the people show
Speaker 2: up in a Russian TV To me, this is just incredible.
Speaker 2: And we're not talking you know, a one time thing
Speaker 2: where somebody has a quote that's taken out of context
Speaker 2: that Russians use it. We're talking steadily and routinely. The
Speaker 2: Russians say, but look, there are good people in America
Speaker 2: and this is what they believe. This is what they say.
Speaker 2: But Donald Trump on a personal level, yes, I mean
Speaker 2: his lack of predictability, how scary he is for the
Speaker 2: NATO countries. Just listen to what the Foreign Minister of Lithuania,
Speaker 2: gabrielis linz Burgas, has been saying. They're tremendously worried. They
Speaker 2: know that Donald Trump is dangerous for them. They never
Speaker 2: use his name. Is there politically you know, they're trying
Speaker 2: to be neutral, they are f ministry, but it's very
Speaker 2: clear what they're saying. They're saying that the Russians are
Speaker 2: going to try to conquer Ukraine and then go for
Speaker 2: the Baltic States. But they definitely have an eye on
Speaker 2: what happens next to Washington, and we all understand exactly
Speaker 2: what they're referring to. They're referring to the Donald Trump
Speaker 2: coming back, a guy who's promised not to make America
Speaker 2: great again, but to have revenge. What does that mean?
Speaker 2: And the fact that they have all the investigations going
Speaker 2: on now in the US House about Hunter Biden, which
Speaker 2: is touching on Barisma and Ukraine. I have no doubt whatsoever.
Speaker 2: And by the way, we know this is ties back
Speaker 2: to Russian intelligence the whole story. There are people that
Speaker 2: were inclusion with Russian intelligence, who met with people like
Speaker 2: Giuliani in regards that you know years ago now. But
Speaker 2: those those things are all being done specifically to benefit
Speaker 2: Donald Trump and his campaign.
Speaker 1: You used three times a word in describing pudent subjectives
Speaker 1: during this conversation, and the word is conquer as in
Speaker 1: conquer Ukraine, and I want to drill down on that.
Speaker 1: Do you mean to say that it is Vladimir Putin's
Speaker 1: aim to occupy Ukraine fully and completely the full nation
Speaker 1: of in the mid forties of millions of people, that
Speaker 1: in the way that Germany did France and did Greece
Speaker 1: and did the Netherlands as an occupying power, as a
Speaker 1: controlling power, making illegal the Ukrainian language. What do you
Speaker 1: mean by that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Actually, the example of Germany that you gave is pretty
Speaker 2: much what I mean by that. So we can only
Speaker 2: look at the occupied terraportratories so far, some of the
Speaker 2: eastern parts of Ukraine and what we saw there, and
Speaker 2: we'll just say that's probably a good example a prologue
Speaker 2: of what is to come. History is but a prologue,
Speaker 2: and in this case we see that in those regions
Speaker 2: there is forced taking a citizenship of Russian citizenship, that is,
Speaker 2: those who have refused. If you know, many things have happened.
Speaker 2: You know, just yesterday they were raiding their houses, stealing
Speaker 2: their possessions, stealing the cash they might have had or
Speaker 2: anything had value, and then throwing them out into the streets.
Speaker 2: There is also the fact they've you know, kidnapped their
Speaker 2: children so they can send the Russia to be rucified,
Speaker 2: to only speak Russian and also to become more Russian like,
Speaker 2: and to forget the Ukrainian identity. They've eradicated, stopped out
Speaker 2: the Ukrainian language and culture. They've closed down the Ukrainian
Speaker 2: churches for that matter. I mean, they've closed down Protestant churches,
Speaker 2: Baptist churches, Evangelical churches because it's considered to be a
Speaker 2: pro American conspiracy in the eyes of the Russians. I've
Speaker 2: interviewed pastors from eastern Ukraine who lived under occupation or
Speaker 2: who are capped by Russians, who are tortured. I mean
Speaker 2: they hooked their generals up to electric prods and lit
Speaker 2: them up. These pastors because they said that, you know,
Speaker 2: all Evangelicals are all Protestants are part of the American conspiracy.
Speaker 2: It's something that the Russians really believe. It's not just
Speaker 2: you know, crazy, This is not so far outside of
Speaker 2: the rum. I've met enough people who have suffered these
Speaker 2: sorts of faiths to say that it's what happens. So
Speaker 2: and I talked about what's going to happen to the
Speaker 2: rest of Ukraine. Yes, I'd imagine be very naugous that
Speaker 2: Russia is historically also taken the male population from the
Speaker 2: regions and forces them to become soldiers for their military.
Speaker 2: Once again. They use them primarily as cannon. Father There
Speaker 2: is no intent that they're going to win the war,
Speaker 2: said I should say, come back victoriously. They send the
Speaker 2: soldiers to die. There's an understanding they're going there to
Speaker 2: be wiped away.
Speaker 1: They've taken three hundred thousand casualties. Does Russia have the
Speaker 1: wherewith all military to occupy the whole of Ukraine if
Speaker 1: Western military support collapses.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean that's the whole thing, is that Ukraine
Speaker 2: is able to keep it together because of the Western
Speaker 2: military assistance. Should that not come through. Look at the numbers.
Speaker 2: Russia's got one hundred and forty million people. It's a
Speaker 2: massive country. And the fact is if they just keep
Speaker 2: rounding up people and send them off as they are,
Speaker 2: they will eventually overwhelm Ukraine. Unfortunately. That being said, Ukraine's
Speaker 2: senior advantage has been the Western military technology that allows
Speaker 2: us to suffer far less casualties than the Russian side.
Speaker 2: And it's thanks to the Americans. I mean, I have
Speaker 2: no doubt about it. It is thanks to the American people.
Speaker 2: And Ukrainians are very thankful. I want to be clear.
Speaker 2: Is they're very thankful, and they do bring it up.
Speaker 2: I mean when they hear my accent, it's one of
Speaker 2: the first things they say. They love America. They appreciate
Speaker 2: the Americans have done for them, and they are, you know,
Speaker 2: worried about what's going on in the domestic American politic.
Speaker 1: Let's see if we agree on something which I suspect
Speaker 1: we do. But this is just as a basic strategic proposition, right,
Speaker 1: if you're a United States senator cold bloodedly looking at
Speaker 1: this situation, Let's say that you are true equities of
Speaker 1: the matter or defending Poland and you're really indifferent to Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Is it not the case that, so long as this
Speaker 1: war is fought in Ukraine, that the Russians do not
Speaker 1: have the wherewithal to expand it beyond Ukraine, to say,
Speaker 1: Moldova or the Baltics, Or do you believe they can
Speaker 1: continue to fight in Ukraine, will expanding the war simultaneously
Speaker 1: to those other places? Or do you believe an expansion
Speaker 1: is the consequence of defeat in Ukraine?
Speaker 2: So the Russians at this point absolutely cannot take a
Speaker 2: significantly attack pulling into the Baltic states, e. They're far
Speaker 2: too occupy it here in Ukraine. That being said, you know,
Speaker 2: if Ukraine were to fall, yeah, in the closing days
Speaker 2: of that, they could easily roll through Moldova for instance. No,
Speaker 2: we'll not take much effort. There's only seven thousand soldiers
Speaker 2: in Moldova. It'd be pretty quick. Two point five million
Speaker 2: people in the country. But at this stage, no, far away.
Speaker 2: Russia just does not have the capacity to do so. Again,
Speaker 2: you know, I think part of the whole strategy, if
Speaker 2: I was a US senator, is the fact that hey, listen,
Speaker 2: is far better. They keep the Russians occupied in Ukraine,
Speaker 2: Losing troops like crazy, losing tanks like crazy. Russia has
Speaker 2: lost I want to say, it's the statistic crectness. It's
Speaker 2: sixty eight percent of its tanks have been destroyed in
Speaker 2: its moore. The attritionary in the number of its soldiers
Speaker 2: who die in the war that wiped out, it's about
Speaker 2: eighty six percent. There's plenty of evidence that Russia does
Speaker 2: not have the ability to stand up to modern American technologies.
Speaker 2: And it's really that simple. And of course the bravery
Speaker 2: of the Ukraine soldiers and all else, but it's the
Speaker 2: technology that's blowing up the tanks. And so we have
Speaker 2: to be clear, is that we are obliterating fifty percent
Speaker 2: of the Russian military and it has cost US five
Speaker 2: percent in the US defense budget. The police comparison that
Speaker 2: works out a lesson about let's see five tenths. Let's
Speaker 2: say half of one percent of the US national budget,
Speaker 2: half of one percent of the total US budget has
Speaker 2: been able to destroy more than fifty percent of the
Speaker 2: Russian military. And I think that if we look at
Speaker 2: the many generations of Americans who paid federal taxes to
Speaker 2: pay for a military that would specifically defend them from
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union from the Russians. Today we're destroying the
Speaker 2: Russian military in a way that they could never have
Speaker 2: dreamt of, costing not one US soldier's life. This is
Speaker 2: a very low cost. And one thing that they leave
Speaker 2: out in the American talk about this discussion is that
Speaker 2: the vast majority of the money, and this is easily
Speaker 2: found in the government's websites, the vast majority of the
Speaker 2: money that we give to Ukraine is actually stayed in
Speaker 2: the United States. In mind, these are US produced things.
Speaker 2: Abram's tanks are produced in Ohio, you know, these are
Speaker 2: things Louisiana produces one fifty five. There is different things
Speaker 2: where you look at the US States, but they're producing
Speaker 2: the jobs that are created. And how much the weaponry
Speaker 2: that Ukraine has given as well as the various artillery
Speaker 2: and stuff like this that were nearing their date of exploration.
Speaker 2: They have to be used up by a certain date.
Speaker 2: These are things that we've had in stockpiles, a lot
Speaker 2: of it from the eighties, you know, from the early nineties.
Speaker 2: They're not going to sit there for one hundred years.
Speaker 2: I mean, if we don't use it a certain time period,
Speaker 2: they destroy it, and that costs more money. It costs
Speaker 2: very little senate to Ukraine for free. So the numbers
Speaker 2: and how much we're spanning Ukraine, I would argue actually
Speaker 2: quite inflated. It's a lot less and it's saving US
Speaker 2: taxpayer a lot of dollars in many ways. The US
Speaker 2: military and return gets the newer technology, the newer equipment,
Speaker 2: and we're offloading the older stuff or the more used
Speaker 2: stuff to Ukrainians. So this is a win win for everybody,
Speaker 2: and we're getting rid of one of our greatest geopolitical
Speaker 2: foes in our entire history.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny listening to you say that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do have a bit of a different
Speaker 1: opinion on the messaging piece, though I understand the meritoriousness
Speaker 1: right of the argument you're making. But in the end,
Speaker 1: it costs what it costs, because the cost of Ukraine
Speaker 1: falling to the Russian Federation under Vladimir Putin is ultimately
Speaker 1: paid for by America's young men and women somewhere down
Speaker 1: the line in a widening European war. And so you
Speaker 1: have a confluence of leaders in Trump, in lepenn far
Speaker 1: right party rising in Germany, that are all that you
Speaker 1: need to unravel the EU, to unravel NATO, and history
Speaker 1: would suggest that there's terrible consequences to that, particularly particularly
Speaker 1: in Europe. So you know, this is an urgent moment
Speaker 1: I think for America's national security in one where the
Speaker 1: arming of Ukraine is an essential matter in the in
Speaker 1: the politics of it in the States are clear is
Speaker 1: that President Biden is going to have to capitulate on
Speaker 1: the on the border funding issue. And these issues should
Speaker 1: never have been linked. One should not be used to
Speaker 1: ransom the other, particularly by the extremists that are doing
Speaker 1: the ransoming. But they have succeeded in doing it, and
Speaker 1: I think that the Biden administration will be compelled to
Speaker 1: cut that deal. But the fundamental issue for Ukraine in
Speaker 1: the United States is that in the course of a year,
Speaker 1: President Zelenski has gone from a universally admired man to
Speaker 1: a man who the presence draws a lot of indifference.
Speaker 1: The attention span of the United States is that of
Speaker 1: a gerbil And in the end, there has to be
Speaker 1: a consistency of communication about the urgency of what's at stake,
Speaker 1: because this is going to go on for a long
Speaker 1: long time, and the American commitment has to be absolute
Speaker 1: until the end, and that the war cannot stop, must
Speaker 1: not stop until there are no longer any Russians on
Speaker 1: Ukrainian soil left to be killed. And that's how the
Speaker 1: war can stop. And that's the position of the Ukrainian government,
Speaker 1: that's the position of the Ukrainian people, and the American
Speaker 1: position must be to arm and support them for as
Speaker 1: long as as necessary. And it's incumbent upon America's political
Speaker 1: leaders to communicate that, I think, with absolute with absolute clarity.
Speaker 1: It may cost more and real dollars next year and
Speaker 1: more than that. Whatever the number is, it's a big number,
Speaker 1: but it's one we can easily afford because we're a
Speaker 1: very rich country, and we're a country that spends such
Speaker 1: an extraordinary amount of money on its armaments that it's
Speaker 1: impossible for the Pentagon to pass an audit. So there's
Speaker 1: a lot of crocodile tiers around this issue. And the
Speaker 1: underlying infection is the America first infection. We have seen
Speaker 1: a reawakened affinity for fascism, and there's always been part
Speaker 1: of the body politic, part of the leadership that has
Speaker 1: embraced it. Was some blindness, the authority impulse, the shiny uniform,
Speaker 1: the military parade, the dogmatic religiosity that is thinly veiled authoritarianism,
Speaker 1: and all of these, all of these things you get
Speaker 1: to see play out with regard to Ukraine. And it's
Speaker 1: quite interesting to me the parallels between that affinity and
Speaker 1: affiliation towards Vladimir Putin as it compares to the affiliations
Speaker 1: towards Adolph Hitler. And you know, Tucker Carlson is very
Speaker 1: much a Father Kauflin type figure for the digital age.
Speaker 1: And the reality is that none of it is particularly
Speaker 1: surprising because of a version of it has already played
Speaker 1: out literally within a human lifetime, which is the astonishing
Speaker 1: part with a whole society. Amniesia about what happens when
Speaker 1: a aggressive imperial country like Russia tries to aggrandize itself
Speaker 1: through acts of war and acts of war crimes, to
Speaker 1: enlarge its territory and to impose its will on people
Speaker 1: that it regards as less than and that's what's happening
Speaker 1: in Ukraine and the United States has to be at
Speaker 1: the center, not just of the armaments end of it,
Speaker 1: but in terms of making the moral argument in defense
Speaker 1: of liberty and freedom. That's so essential, I think.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think you're absolutely right. And you know, it
Speaker 2: is shocking to me to see that the United States
Speaker 2: so many people do not appreciate the parallels which is highlighted.
Speaker 2: That's the rise of Hitler. I mean, if you look
Speaker 2: at Putin, I think you'd be very hard priced to
Speaker 2: find people who followed Putin carefully who would not say
Speaker 2: there are very clear parallels to Germany in the thirties.
Speaker 2: The fact is that Letter Putin has already occupied other countries' territory.
Speaker 2: He has created a it's not patriotism and then it
Speaker 2: is fascism. Truly, if you look at this ulternationalism within
Speaker 2: the population, the superiority of ethnic Russians, linguistic Russians. They
Speaker 2: don't use the word superior, but it's very clear what's
Speaker 2: being implied. What they're trying to say by it, the
Speaker 2: fact they've deemed everything that's foreign to be some similarti
Speaker 2: enemy in or country everything that's a foreign let's say,
Speaker 2: belief or religion or anything else is bad. It needs
Speaker 2: to be stopped, stopped out. There is no free press
Speaker 2: in Russia. There hasn't been for a long time. They're
Speaker 2: not free trials in Russia or court processes. There is
Speaker 2: not by any means of free society. I mean a
Speaker 2: podcast such as this would absolutely free to bid in Russia.
Speaker 2: I mean your house will definitely get rated for something
Speaker 2: like that, and you wound up in the camps. I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: they have plenty of people in Russia sent to prison
Speaker 2: for years for doing something so small. It's pulling it
Speaker 2: up aside. That just says no war. It's all says
Speaker 2: no war, no war, and you'll get years in prison.
Speaker 2: You get up to fifteen years in prison for that. Now,
Speaker 2: people stay outside of the Kremlin and you can find
Speaker 2: it videos online with a blank piece of paper. Just
Speaker 2: hold up a blank piece of paper. Doesn't say anything.
Speaker 2: But the shade absurdity of the police state is that
Speaker 2: they will arrest you and take you away. You will
Speaker 2: go to prison. This is not a joke. Russia is
Speaker 2: a fascist state. Their brand washing their population, and this
Speaker 2: is you know, we throw that word around a lot
Speaker 2: in other countries that bit in the US, but this
Speaker 2: is something unparalleled. We've never had something like this. I mean,
Speaker 2: the social media such as Facebook and things there are
Speaker 2: not used. They have their own which is a direct
Speaker 2: copy paste of what Facebook looks like the conductor on
Speaker 2: the classicky they're called. They look exactly the same as
Speaker 2: Facebook or no social media. They have their own chats
Speaker 2: like WhatsApp or signal. They have their own it's called telegram,
Speaker 2: which they use. They can monitor what the users do.
Speaker 2: They can monitor the users right, they can monitor which
Speaker 2: groups they join. And then when somebody is you know,
Speaker 2: they notice is engaging in behavior which is state does
Speaker 2: not sanctioned to come and raid their house. They do have,
Speaker 2: you know, all sorts of loyalty tests and verification of
Speaker 2: people is to a degree. And and I know this
Speaker 2: is a far branch you got on, but I think
Speaker 2: it is a serious argument that it is worse today
Speaker 2: than it was in the Soviet Union. Simply the Soviet Union.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're the technological capacity to monitor the
Speaker 2: citizens as closely as they are now. They are able
Speaker 2: to monitor them on the most every level possible. Obviously,
Speaker 2: all their credit card data and everything else to make
Speaker 2: sure what they're percha seeing from whom you're purchasing, if
Speaker 2: it's foreign or if it's domestic. They really keep tabs
Speaker 2: on their people and they live in fear, and people
Speaker 2: know that they can't joke about things. What's what's forbidden
Speaker 2: to talk about. It is a closed society. Increase in
Speaker 2: the closed society, and it isn't direct threat to the
Speaker 2: United States. And actually that, you know, I think that's
Speaker 2: one thing that anyone who's lost about the America or
Speaker 2: thinks this about Ukraine is absolutely wrong. Listen, Ukraine is
Speaker 2: the first step, and this is this is the first
Speaker 2: stop on the metro. This is gonna keep going, and
Speaker 2: the next stop is going to be other countries. It
Speaker 2: is definitely going to be you know, the Moltogas or
Speaker 2: the Baltic States and then Poland's. And that's why the
Speaker 2: Baltic states in Poland have been so openly in favor
Speaker 2: of Ukraine or continue to assist it and to push
Speaker 2: US lawmakers as well to support it, is because they
Speaker 2: know it's their own self security that comes with this.
Speaker 2: But let's look at the repercussions we see Venezuela let's
Speaker 2: take Guyana, that's not by coincidence. Venezuela is as close
Speaker 2: as it gets to Russia as possible. We see what's
Speaker 2: going on China and Tailan that's also related to what Russia.
Speaker 2: Russia showed is perhaps gonna be some permissibility if we
Speaker 2: do this, if especially if Trump were to come to power,
Speaker 2: and so we're going to start laying the cars up.
Speaker 2: We see that Russia's leading its allies around the world Iran,
Speaker 2: for instance, cooperation with HESBA and Hamas, which by the way,
Speaker 2: Hamas was in meetings in Moscow in mid October.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: They've openly worked with organizations like this for years. Russia
Speaker 2: is a direct threat to the United States security globally
Speaker 2: and our allies, not just ours, our allies. So if
Speaker 2: anyone is so misguided as believers, well you know who
Speaker 2: cares if they take Ukraine. You know, if you're willing
Speaker 2: to look past a genocide, that's not going to turn
Speaker 2: your stomach. Okay, but let me argue that eventually it
Speaker 2: will be American soldiers that will die for this, have
Speaker 2: no doubt about this. US citizens will die as a
Speaker 2: result of this decision. So right now, it's pay a
Speaker 2: little bit of money, less than five percent of the
Speaker 2: defense budget, and we can keep this far from our shores,
Speaker 2: protector Alice and protect her sons from having to go
Speaker 2: fight a war. Or we can say we're going to
Speaker 2: fight over this for these crocodiles. Here is about saving
Speaker 2: taxpayers money. And in fact, no, that's gonna be your
Speaker 2: sons at diamonds war, and it'll cost US hundreds of
Speaker 2: billions of dollars in the meantime.
Speaker 1: Well, save taxpayer money. We hire five thousand auditors to
Speaker 1: go in there and kick ass, right like a sealed
Speaker 1: team of auditors to deal with what Dwight Eisenhower warned about.
Speaker 1: But you know, look, the US Navy isn't big enough,
Speaker 1: the procurement process is shattered, the waste is profound, but
Speaker 1: there's no choice. But two are in Ukraine. And I
Speaker 1: think that this has to be and elevate cause in
Speaker 1: the United States, and that there needs to be better
Speaker 1: communication about the matter as a as a whole, which
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons I wanted to have you
Speaker 1: on and talk about it today so that you know,
Speaker 1: people can get a better sense. But let me ask
Speaker 1: you this too, talk about what it is like to
Speaker 1: live in Kiev. Now are you moving around the country.
Speaker 1: How close are you to the combat zones in your coverage?
Speaker 1: If at if at all? Are you primarily in the city?
Speaker 1: What is what is life like? Is there privation? Are
Speaker 1: there things you can't get on the stores? Is is
Speaker 1: life away from the frontline fairly normal? Is the air
Speaker 1: raid or the missile attack now a routine oze, you know,
Speaker 1: a routine part of the part of the day that
Speaker 1: you know people you know, we're just innoored to it.
Speaker 1: We talk about what life is like.
Speaker 2: So you know, it depends on where in the country
Speaker 2: you are, and it is quite a large country for
Speaker 2: European standards. I'm using in Kiev, the capital. In Kiev,
Speaker 2: there is routinely drone strikes, drum attacks. The drones are
Speaker 2: Iranian made primarily. They typically come in they're quite loud
Speaker 2: if historically them they've got chiry ones not to but
Speaker 2: that's you know, that sets off the air rate alarms.
Speaker 2: The air rate alarms also go off whenever a MiG
Speaker 2: Russian made airplane and Soviet made airplane takes off in
Speaker 2: Belarus or in Russia that's near the border. Because they
Speaker 2: use the MiGs. The fire missiles. The the ballistic missiles
Speaker 2: are fired from the Mins into Ukrainian cities, so they
Speaker 2: target from you know, air and they fire into land
Speaker 2: targets here in Ukraine now obviously, I mean, thank god,
Speaker 2: in Kiev it's much quieter. That is, let's say, in
Speaker 2: an eastern part of the country. In eastern part of
Speaker 2: the country, it is I mean it's horrendous. I mean,
Speaker 2: the firing and the shooting doesn't stop. It does go constantly.
Speaker 2: You can hear small arms artillerary, there's the drones hanging
Speaker 2: over head constantly. It is. It is World War One
Speaker 2: sort of conditions for the soldiers. It's winter and outs.
Speaker 2: I mean it's Ukraine, so it's cold, so they're in
Speaker 2: sub you know, zero temperatures outside in the snow, as
Speaker 2: as things are just exploding constantly, especially at night. The
Speaker 2: air rates tend to offs in this key as well
Speaker 2: as in the front. Nighttime is when a lot of
Speaker 2: the big explosions happen because you know, it's harder to
Speaker 2: detect things such as drones or like its missiles as well.
Speaker 2: It's it's it adds confusion, but also that's terror. There's
Speaker 2: a whole population's woken up. Every night. Not every night.
Speaker 2: I mean it was quite for pure but yes, very
Speaker 2: f and go off a couple of times a night.
Speaker 2: So if you're the local population and you're trying to
Speaker 2: sleep at nights and you're you know, this air raid
Speaker 2: which is out in the streets goes off and goes off,
Speaker 2: goes off, of course it's gonna wake you up. It's
Speaker 2: become normalized the sense that you know, I talked to
Speaker 2: her friends in the morning after an air raid and
Speaker 2: they talk about how their kids sleep in the bathroom specifically.
Speaker 2: You know, the bathroom is not gonna have windows on
Speaker 2: everything else, so there's up being broken glass or shards
Speaker 2: coming through if something explodes outside, or they sleep in
Speaker 2: the hallway. There's one friend of mine who works in
Speaker 2: television news in Ukraine. Her or she's a single mother.
Speaker 2: The run just a rush raw missile was headed towards
Speaker 2: Ky if the air defense fortunately shot it down. The
Speaker 2: downside is when you shoot down, when air defense shoots
Speaker 2: down a rocket or missile, it's still going to fall somewhere.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: In that case, I fell in her house and exploded.
Speaker 2: She her ten year old son was at home alone.
Speaker 2: She was at work. He heard the air raid alert
Speaker 2: and went to the basement by himself and fortunately survived.
Speaker 2: The house got completely destroyed, her car get destroyed, She's
Speaker 2: got nothing left, and she's literally she's living in the
Speaker 2: framework of that house now, which they've got a heater.
Speaker 2: They put on some patch parts of the walls. But
Speaker 2: she was telling me it's about twelve degree centigrade, which
Speaker 2: I guess is probably the low forties mid forties of
Speaker 2: temperature during the day and night, and it's so it's cold,
Speaker 2: and she's living there with her son, and she was
Speaker 2: asking me if I could help them, And that's not uncommon.
Speaker 2: I've been plenty of people have had it sort of
Speaker 2: her fate and her case. You know, I look at
Speaker 2: it and say, it's incredible, what can be done for you?
Speaker 2: In fact, this the government's broke International insurance is both
Speaker 2: the Messing insurance does not cover acts of war. As
Speaker 2: it does not cover acts of war, means you're just
Speaker 2: out of luck. You know, if your car gets total
Speaker 2: buyed or your house gets burned or blown up, as hersted,
Speaker 2: you've just lost your life savings. There's no way everything
Speaker 2: to recover it. Keep in mind, the average salary for
Speaker 2: a worker here such as herself. I don't know exactly
Speaker 2: what you got paid, but I'll guess to me it's
Speaker 2: about seven hundred dollars a month. How will she ever
Speaker 2: be able to fix this damage? It's and she said
Speaker 2: it was asked to be twenty thousand to fix her
Speaker 2: house back to what it was. It was an inheritance
Speaker 2: from the Soviet period from her grandparents who had lived there.
Speaker 2: But how was she ever if you mixed one hundred
Speaker 2: I was a month to get twenty thousand. She'll never
Speaker 2: get'll never And so the reality is that she's going
Speaker 2: to live in destitute poverty unless a miracle comes through
Speaker 2: sheets the job outside the country. But this is this
Speaker 2: sort of thing happens to people. I mean people Dan
Speaker 2: and Dana are struggling. Twenty six percent is the unofficial on.
Speaker 1: The twenty And she's a broadcast journalist.
Speaker 2: She works behind us the camera. She does not work
Speaker 2: behind it. She works behind the camera, not in front
Speaker 2: of the camera. But yes, so she was doing you know,
Speaker 2: different things for programming, but by profession, she was working
Speaker 2: with disabled children and as a psychologist for them. But
Speaker 2: there was trying to get a change of professions so
Speaker 2: she could be a home more with her son, and
Speaker 2: this is what happens. So she's a good person and
Speaker 2: that's what happens. Then you have the other situations here
Speaker 2: in the country. You know, there's six point two million
Speaker 2: Ukrainian women and children who have left the country since
Speaker 2: the war began, primarily in Europe. Poland's the biggest country
Speaker 2: they've moved to. We know that there's been a host
Speaker 2: of prompts of them being abducted for sex trafficking all
Speaker 2: over the world. I meant to Turkey, to Middle East,
Speaker 2: all over the place, and women, well mostly the younger women,
Speaker 2: girls and children. But we also have you know, the
Speaker 2: people that are lives are destroyed. I mean, they've got
Speaker 2: no future once they've left Ukraine, they have no community,
Speaker 2: they don't know what to do. They have been outside
Speaker 2: the country before, so they just sort of left to
Speaker 2: their own luck of the wind. But within the country,
Speaker 2: as it say, it's twenty six percent unemployment rate, that's official,
Speaker 2: it's presumed to be much higher. It's quite a bit destitution.
Speaker 2: There is not everything that they used to be in
Speaker 2: stores by any means. It's become much harder, uh, including
Speaker 2: things like medical eriods and stuff like that things that
Speaker 2: are more expensive because there's much less demands. Uh. You
Speaker 2: see a lot of store fronts that are closed. There
Speaker 2: used to be all open. It was very vibrant, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say, keV. I mean was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: All the cities I've been to in Europe, which is
Speaker 2: right number, Uh, this was by far the most fun.
Speaker 2: Cub was a great city. And it's just it's it's dying.
Speaker 2: And it's simply dying because you.
Speaker 1: Know, is there anyone in the restaurants? Are their restaurants
Speaker 1: open or their bars open or there? You know, as
Speaker 1: you pointed out, it was a vibrant, vibrant city place
Speaker 1: I've been to more than more than once. What is there?
Speaker 1: Is there any social activity that's carrying on, any type
Speaker 1: of normalcy you know that you would expect in a
Speaker 1: great city.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, there are there are some restaurants open.
Speaker 2: A lot I've gone out of business, but there are
Speaker 2: some open. There are some you know, cafes open, coffee shops.
Speaker 2: Once again, the quantity is much less than what was before,
Speaker 2: but it's it's it's no the nightlife, I mean for execos,
Speaker 2: it's non existent for that matter. You know, there's a
Speaker 2: curfew in the country due to the state of war
Speaker 2: and the martial law. So it's by midnight people off
Speaker 2: to be home, which is especially here in the capital
Speaker 2: in the eastern parts of country, strictly obeyed. Because I
Speaker 2: have a journalistic pass, an ID military d I'm allowed
Speaker 2: to be out. Passes are so I have walked just
Speaker 2: so curiosity to see if it's strictly obeyed. But I
Speaker 2: can assure you it's strictly obayed. There are no cars
Speaker 2: out past midnight until five am, and that's very very
Speaker 2: simple reason. I mean, it is one in the early
Speaker 2: days of where there's a lot of seven tours that
Speaker 2: were catching Russians and people assisting the Russians to give
Speaker 2: the positions. But at this point, you know, a lot
Speaker 2: of the military reposition of technologies happens tonight. So I
Speaker 2: think it's to try to keep taps on that and
Speaker 2: also try to control I mean, it's you know, I
Speaker 2: don't think most people would, but just the hypothetical. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's necessarily good for the morale that people
Speaker 2: are going to nightclubs in the midst of a war,
Speaker 2: which they're not because they're not open, they're closed. So
Speaker 2: that's not happening. People aren't going out and drinking all night.
Speaker 2: That's not happening. It is much more of a controlled situation.
Speaker 2: But people realize that there's an existential battle of their
Speaker 2: country's engage. And when you talk to people, I assure
Speaker 2: you just go and you know, ask them how to
Speaker 2: do it, and ask them, do you know if there's
Speaker 2: anyone in the war, anyone personally who's in the war.
Speaker 2: One percent chance they will tell you about their friends
Speaker 2: and family in the war. More than likely than that,
Speaker 2: at this point they will mention who has died or
Speaker 2: been permanently injured in the war. When you rock down
Speaker 2: men sheet the street in the key of this ko kushetik,
Speaker 2: one thing you'll notice is and you know, I had
Speaker 2: never paid attention to it. A Polish journalist was here
Speaker 2: last month and he knowed this when we were walking
Speaker 2: down the street. And I guess, I'm sure, like the
Speaker 2: frog that's in the boiling water, I didn't realize if
Speaker 2: it's something here every day, it's getting worse. If I
Speaker 2: didn't notice it is you notice the number of amputees.
Speaker 2: The number of amputees is really staggering. And I just
Speaker 2: never appreciate it because it's just you know, every day
Speaker 2: it's a little bit more. But at this point, yeah,
Speaker 2: you see quite a bit double amputees. Otherwise, you see
Speaker 2: people with facial burns, they're they're pounched up, you see
Speaker 2: things with just you know, horrible things have happened people
Speaker 2: in the Horses War. And it's not just soldiers, there's
Speaker 2: plenty of civilians.
Speaker 1: Yet the morale of the country remains high. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is defiant, it.
Speaker 2: Remains define because the listeners, to be fair, they themselves
Speaker 2: believe what is true that if Putin were to take
Speaker 2: something like Kiev, he will send their children off to Russia.
Speaker 2: The younger girls will become the prostitutes of the Russian soldiers.
Speaker 2: They will be tortured, that men will go the forced
Speaker 2: than to fight against western Ukrainians. As the Russians move
Speaker 2: further west, they will send those men off to become canafather.
Speaker 2: Everything of value here will be robbed or eluded, They
Speaker 2: will destroy anything of cultural value, because this is what
Speaker 2: Russia has done throughout eastern Ukraine. Russia has routinely done this.
Speaker 2: This is a genocide or mayor Viar Putin is up
Speaker 2: at the International Criminal Court International arrest war for charges
Speaker 2: of trafficking in children. He's up on stealing children and
Speaker 2: deporting them to Russia. This is what the Russia, Matarizi gets.
Speaker 2: This is not just you know, geopolitics, which is an
Speaker 2: important and going to discuss, but this is actual genocide
Speaker 2: taking place. The UN commissions looking to this is called
Speaker 2: the same conclusions. This is terrifying and it's happening today.
Speaker 2: And the fact that people think of this is in
Speaker 2: terms of oh, that's a Biden issuer. You know, that's
Speaker 2: not good for Trump or whatever. People the confines or
Speaker 2: context that they add to it, please ignore it. Just
Speaker 2: look at what's going on in the grounds. I think
Speaker 2: as Americans we should defend freedom and value such as
Speaker 2: our own US who support America, such as the Greens.
Speaker 2: We we should be doing what we can to to
Speaker 2: fight off this new wave of fascism.
Speaker 1: It's a perfect place to leave it. Jason Smart, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Stay safe, and Keeve, thank.
Speaker 2: You, Steves. I appreciate it. H