1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Lizzie bought her herself at home this year home. Yes, 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: Damjan Capistrano told me about the home down the street 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: from her parents. I don't know anything much else about it. 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: Lizzie Malta pulls another fast one and gets away with it. 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 1: Now we know after she had bought her house. She 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: then goes in and signs a police bargain, confessing that 7 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: she has no assets. But once federal Prosecutor Scott Tenley 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: gets wind of this new information, well you'd call it 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: a fraudulent conveyance. That would be kind of the legal 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: term of art if you are moving property under fraudulent 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: Pretexas to you know, disguise your assets. If I had 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: found out that that was going on, we could have 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: probably backed out of the plea agreement. The fallout from 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: Lizzie's alleged asset hiding scam is increasing exponentially in real 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: time during the production of this podcast. I can tell 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: you if she showed up in front of Judge Carter, 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: he would not be happy. She could be charged with 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: another crime, which would be a fraud. She could potentially 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: be brought back into court in front of the judge 20 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: and asked to vacate this plea agreement. I'm Jonathan Walton 21 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: and this is Queen of the con The O C 22 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: Savior episode ten, The Rescue Merchant. I don't think I've 23 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: ever seen it where a judge, district judge calls back 24 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: at event and said, I'm revoking your plea agreement. Former 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: federal prosecutor Paula Blong admits the Lizzie Malder case is 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: now heading into uncharted territory. Is that within his power 27 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: he has to accept the play agreement. So if she's 28 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: violated it, then than is conceivably he could he could 29 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: do something to bring her back. So I email Judge 30 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: Carter all the evidence I put together that proves Lizzie 31 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: Mulder bought a house now valued at one point two 32 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: million dollars and transferred ownership to her husband. Then later 33 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: the couple divorce. Lizzie claims she has no assets that 34 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: can be liquidated to pay her victims one point five 35 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: million dollars in court ordered restitution. And I wait, I've 36 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: learned through the process of bringing my own con artists, 37 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: the Irish Sherriff's to justice and investigating several dozen other 38 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: con artists cases over the past four years, that The 39 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: justice system is very specific when it comes to court hearings. 40 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: Each hearing exists to deal with a certain issue, and 41 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: that's it. It's extremely myopic. So the only thing that 42 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: happens and can happen at a sentencing here ring is sentencing. 43 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: A judge is there to pronounce sentence on a guilty criminal, 44 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: and that's it. Any new allegations of wrongdoing need to 45 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: be investigated from scratch by law enforcement, and that never 46 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: happened with the Lizzie Mulder home buying, asset hiding allegation, 47 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: but hopefully because of this podcast it will. Meanwhile, I 48 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: realize I've spent so much time documenting Lizzie's crimes that 49 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: I haven't paused to really figure out the why. What 50 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: is it that makes this woman tick? What was she 51 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: like as a child? Were there any red flags that 52 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: hinted at her becoming a con artist? It was very 53 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: strange my mom telling me that she went to Pepperdine. 54 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, what she did not? That's Lizzie's childhood. Friend 55 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: of me will call her Anna because she wants to 56 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: remain anonymous. She's a breathtakingly beautiful woman, tall, blonde with 57 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: an air of sophistication about her. She works as a 58 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: corporate exact now for a huge out of state company. 59 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: But Orange County is a role stomping ground. Growing up here, 60 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: she's seen all its tricks. It's the land of credit 61 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: card millionaires, and you have people driving around in two 62 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollar cards and they're living in a ship 63 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: box house and you don't realize that until you move away. 64 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: And it remembers quite vividly being raised in Orange County 65 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: alongside little Lizzie Mulder. She wasn't a member of the 66 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: Lucky Sperm Club, and that means what she came from 67 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: the same type of household I did. Both working parents 68 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: worked hard for you know, everything that they have, and 69 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: essentially I was not handed a life on a silver 70 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: platter with money on it and where I was able 71 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: to do what I want with it. Right, you have 72 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: to work honestly, honest work. Never went to jail, Nope, 73 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: not that I can remember. How did Lizzie Malder enter 74 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: your life? I knew her from junior high and then 75 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: we both went to high school together. She was, I 76 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: don't want to say, the ugly duckling, but she she 77 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: always tried to fit in but she just she never did. 78 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: Why was she different? Did she look? She was just 79 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: she had an attitude. She had an attitude. Now you 80 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: say she was an ugly duckling in high school, Like, 81 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Just the girl next door? Just mousey, 82 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: brown hair, a little on the volumptuous side, you know, 83 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: a full figured girl. I remember, so I tracked you down. 84 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: I found an alumni page for Dana Hills High class 85 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: of two thousand one, with like hundreds of people listed, 86 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: and I just started background checking every person to find 87 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: contact info and started emailing and calling emailian calling emailion, 88 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: calling like dozens and dozens of her classmates, and a 89 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: couple got back to me. But you're the only one 90 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: who took it all the way. Here we are sitting 91 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: down talking, Okay, do you remember that when I got 92 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: you on the phone and I said you went to 93 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: high school with Lizzie Mulder? And do you remember the 94 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: first thing you told me? No, not at all. You said, Yes, 95 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: she was a raving bitch. She was. She had an attitude. 96 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: I think she she thought she was better than everybody else, 97 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: And historically, I just I don't get along with people 98 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: like that. It's check your attitude at the door and 99 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: treat those the way you want to be treated. And 100 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: I believe some of the people that fell into her 101 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: spider web, if you want to call it that. If 102 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: I remember correctly, they were all friends in high school. 103 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: The names in the faces looked pretty familiar. How did 104 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: you come to know about the cons um We have 105 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: a mutual friend and I would rather not bring him 106 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: into it, but he told me that he was conned. 107 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: My husband's like, what kind of people? Did you like? 108 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: Run whip and I have I'm like, no, no, no, Yeah, 109 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: It's amazing how one bad apple can literally spoil it 110 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: for the bunch, right all of a sudden, your husband 111 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: wants to align you with her, and you're like, no, no, no, 112 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: no people. And did you know her family? Her mother, 113 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: her father, her brother's her mom, I believe was very 114 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: active in the Dolphin regiment, so that was kind of 115 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: like the parent group. Her mom was always nice. She 116 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: was always very cordial with my mom. I mean, no 117 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: issues there. And I believe her mom worked at the 118 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: Rich Carlton as massage therapist for a while. I don't 119 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: know if she's still there. Yeah, that's what I heard too. 120 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: And did you know Jesse Mulder, Lizzie's husband at one point, 121 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: was a valet at the Rich Carlton that I did know. 122 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: How did he get that job through her mother? I 123 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: don't know. I was in the hospitality industry for a 124 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: long time. And then a lot of your valets and Bellman, 125 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: a lot of them aspired to be fireman, and so 126 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: I think that's it's it's just an entry level job. 127 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: They worked with your schedule there. I didn't know that. 128 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: And what is the connection between valet and firefighter? They 129 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: work with your schedules. I don't think there's a connection there. 130 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: But it's just a flexibility. And long before everyone realized 131 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: she was a connor heart of scamming everyone, you suspect 132 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: that something was up. So my mom came home and said, oh, 133 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: down at the shop, there is Lizzie Moulder. She's working there. 134 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: She's working as a bookkeeper. And I, what do you 135 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: mean she's a bookkeeper. And then she went through her 136 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: CV and said she went to Pepperdine And I said, 137 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: I don't think she went to Pepperdine, but okay. So 138 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: then I saw her at a Christmas party down there, 139 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: and I remember talking to her and I looked at 140 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: my friend and I said, something's not adding up. Two 141 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: and two wasn't four? What do you mean? What? What 142 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: was adding up in your mind? The things that she 143 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: was saying in the timeline, especially her husband, who I 144 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: don't know, But what I do know is boot Fireman, 145 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: aren't making enough money to sustain her lifestyle. Because she 146 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: did have a big lifestyle. She was living in Laguna Beach. 147 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: Whether you own or rent, living in Laguna Beach is 148 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: probably seven eight dollars a month to rent or for 149 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: your mortgage. She had several horses at a very pretentious 150 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: barn here in San Juan. A pretentious barn. So you're 151 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: a horse person, I am, because I couldn't tell you 152 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: a pretentious barn from a humble board. It was just 153 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: she was probably paying upwards three thousand dollars a month 154 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: per horse just to keep them there, like horse rent. Correct, 155 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I could never afford a horse, I know, 156 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: if I remember correctly. She wanted to do endurance rides. 157 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: I think she had Arabian horses, and those sound price. 158 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: They can be Arabian horses. You're not American? Do you 159 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: fly them in from Arabia? Like? What's the deal with 160 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: an Arabian horse, I have no idea. I gotta look 161 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: into it from the Google. Did some googling. Arabian horses 162 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: originated for years ago on the Arabian Peninsula where the 163 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: countries of Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and the Arab 164 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: Emirates now stand. Arabian horses are known for their speed 165 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: and endurance, and they cost tens of thousands of dollars each. 166 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: The fact that Lizzie Mulder owned Arabian horses tells you 167 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: where a lot of that stolen money probably went. But 168 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: you know, when when I was talking to her and 169 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: she's telling me about I think she had either like 170 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: two or three horses at a barn off of Ortega 171 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: Highway and then living in Laguna Beach. Oh, her kids 172 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: were um in an Eliza's, which is a preschool. I 173 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: went to An Eliza's as a kid. It's a very 174 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: expensive preschool in Laguda Beach. So all these things on 175 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: a bookkeeper salary, or at least on a boot fireman's salary, 176 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: there's no way. You thought, there's no way. And I 177 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: said to my friend, I said, watch out, something not 178 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: adding up. Well, she's nice she's nice. Well, a lot 179 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: of people are nice. I'm nice too, but you haven't 180 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: met me in a dark alley. How you are quite 181 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: an amazingly astute woman to sum all that up just 182 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: from a conversation. And I guess your knowledge of her 183 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: past because one of the things you told me is 184 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: there's no way she went to Pepperdine. And what makes 185 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: you say that, What made you tell me that on 186 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: the phone, that she went to a community college? I 187 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: know she mean, I don't even think she graduated from 188 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: the community college, so you knew that was a lie. 189 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: You know she had a framed degree from Pepperdine hanging 190 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: on her wall. That doesn't surprise me at the least. 191 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, your your smaller businesses. I work in corporate USA. Now, 192 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: your smaller businesses are not going to run complete background 193 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: checks where you go into a database and you request 194 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: their graduation certificate, because that's what cost money. I've done that. 195 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: I do that now when you hire people. When I 196 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: hire people, if they say they have an m D, 197 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: pH d, whatever it is, even if it's a bachelor, 198 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what it is. But just too Yeah, 199 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: it searches the entire U S database. So if they 200 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: have a college record, it's going to come back that 201 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: yes they have one, no, incomplete, whatever it may be. 202 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: You know, we're in a society where we just take 203 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: people's word. If they say they went to the school 204 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: or that school or Pepperdine or Schmapperdine, you just okay, great, 205 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: good for you, you you know, And that's a very prestigious, 206 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: expensive school. Yeah, I think it is. You know what 207 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: sad is she is a very smart individual, and had 208 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: she probably been honest, but then you know, you don't 209 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: make the big bucks being honest. No, no, don't. That's 210 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: the sad tragedy is. Yeah, had she just been honest, 211 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: she could have had a career, but she couldn't have 212 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: kept three Arabian horses at three grand, which with bad 213 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: plastic surgery and a house like the beach. And so 214 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: when you say bad plastic surgery, could you tell looking 215 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: at her that night you were talking to her that 216 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: she had bad plastics? What does that look like? It 217 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: didn't look like her. You could tell that she had 218 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: cheek fill her, she had her nose done. She looked 219 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: better without the plastic surgery. The Lizzie Mulder that Anna 220 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: sees that night at her friend's Christmas party. Is a 221 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: far cry from the one she went to school with. 222 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: She was in band. I believe she played. It was 223 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: either the clarinet or the flute. You were a color 224 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: guard in high school. And what is that? You waved 225 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: the flag like, how does Yes, yes, that's well, we'll 226 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: just leave it at that. It's not one of my 227 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: prouder moments. It's fun, though, it was fun. I still 228 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: have some good friends from from doing that. Yeah, so 229 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: there were times you guys were together, like practicing or interacting. 230 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: Because one group has to do a lot with the other, 231 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: it's usually half the year. You were never friends with 232 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: her though you were like frenemies. Kept our distances. Yeah, 233 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: but intentional on your part because you I just didn't 234 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: I didn't like her. She she was mean. She just 235 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: had an attitude and if you asked her a question, 236 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: she'd give you some snide remark. And was she putting 237 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: people down to make herself feel better? I mean a 238 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: lot of like low sustained people do that. In high school. 239 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: You tend to make fun of everybody. Yeah, you know, 240 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: and when you when you're trying to find your clicks 241 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: and your groups, you know. I mean, I've made fun 242 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: of people that I've made people cry. And now I 243 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: have a friend that one of my closest friends and 244 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: I apologize to her, and you know, but I was 245 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: mean to were in high school. So you know, I 246 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: think because it's bored from insecurity, isn't it. Yeah? I 247 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: think you feel you want to almost distract people from 248 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: looking at you and your deficits or perceived deficits, so 249 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: you you make fun of someone else and get the 250 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: attention on them. Yeah. Yeah, I did that too well. 251 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: Band and color guard is not necessarily the most popular 252 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: thing to do either, least when I was in high school. 253 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: But it's almost like musical theater, right, Yeah, yeah, I 254 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: was a musical theater kid. You know. It's just kind 255 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: of the nerds and the dorks of the or in retrospect, 256 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: the most talented of everyone, right could be Yeah, because 257 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: it takes a talent, it does, certainly does. And it 258 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: also takes like a bravado to put yourself out there 259 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: and not worry. You know, kids that age are always 260 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: concerned what are people going to think? I don't want 261 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: to be holding a flag or playing an instrument or 262 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: singing on stage. Yeah, so it takes a strong I 263 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: think it attracts strong people. I think so too. I 264 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: would have never actually thought of it that way. Yeah, 265 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean, look at you now you are 266 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a gay guy. So, but you're a 267 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: beautiful woman. You seem confident, beautiful, blonde hair like you 268 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: look almost like a model. Thank you. Welcome. Make sure 269 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: you let my husband know that well you you've blossomed. 270 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: Thank you. So whatever dork you thought you were in 271 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: Color Guard, I mean, look at you now. You look 272 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: out of the page of Vogue. I just have the 273 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: attitude of I don't give a funk. But anybody thinks 274 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: I wish I knew that back then. You got to 275 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: go around the block a few times to get to 276 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: that point. That's what you know. You grow. There are 277 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: other people who knew Lizzie Mulder as a young girl 278 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: who paints a more disturbing picture. So she was always 279 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: scamming since she was a child. Do you remember Geneva Mendoza, 280 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: co owner of the salon powered by Toni and Guy 281 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: in Newport Beach. The stories she's heard from some of 282 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: Lizzie's childhood friends are chilling. She stole her like grandfather's 283 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: credit card or applied for credit in his name and charged. Yeah, 284 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: that's what I heard. She she used his so security 285 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: number and and started taking out credit in his account. 286 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: And he's already passed away at the time, So it 287 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: was her dead grandfather stole his identity, applied for credit 288 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: cards and got it and racked up the credit her 289 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: and got caught and got caught. Yeah, I don't know 290 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: what happened, obviously not much. And at that age she's 291 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: stealing her dead grandfather's credit Like, who does that? So 292 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: apparently the signs that Lizzie Malta was going to grow 293 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: up and become a con artist, we're always there if 294 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: you knew what to look for. In my mind, and 295 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: disclaimer here, I'm not a doctor who can make a 296 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: real diagnosis, but in my mind, that makes her a 297 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: true psychopath, though I've heard a lot of people refer 298 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: to her as a sociopath. And if you're wondering what 299 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: the difference is, Psychopaths are born, Sociopaths are made. Former 300 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: FBI criminal profiler and host of the podcast Killer Psyche 301 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: Candice DeLong has studied this kind of stuff for decades. 302 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: Con Artists like her their psychopaths. Okay, frequently I asked question, 303 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: what's the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. They 304 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: both come under the umbrella in the Diagnostic and Statistical 305 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: Manual ds M five, fifth edition of Antisocial Personality Disorder. 306 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: The difference between the two. Psychopaths tend to be smarter, 307 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: and they are able to plan better. They have better 308 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: verbal skills. Sociopaths tend to be We often find that 309 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: they were abused as children, their environment affected what they became. 310 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: I've also read and correct me if I'm wrong that 311 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: psychopaths are like the criminal genius. They know exactly what 312 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: they're doing, they feel no remorse, no regret, and they're 313 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: going to get away with it most of the time 314 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: because they're they're brilliant at the planning, whereas a sociopath. Yes, 315 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: they don't have empathy or guilt, but they kind of 316 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: react out of anger or fear or they lose their temper. 317 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: Their crimes aren't planned necessarily, that's correct. And because they're 318 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: crime aren't planned, and because a lot of their crimes 319 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: are spur of the moment, they're sloppy, they leave evidence 320 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: and they get caught. They tend to not become serial 321 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: killers because they get caught and they go to prison. Yeah, 322 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense to me. Now, so yeah, 323 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: all con artists are probably psychopaths pretty much. Yeah, it's 324 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: a safe statement. It's not absolute, but it's safe. What 325 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: do you make of Lizzie Bolder. She's a narcissist. She's 326 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: a psychopathic narcissist. And by the way, most successful con 327 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: artists are very narcissistic. And when you think about it, 328 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: when narcissist, it's all about me. They believe they are 329 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: superior to everyone. Anything they say will be believed, anything 330 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: they do will work out for them because they are 331 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: superior to everyone around them. And when you think about it, 332 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: that descript oction. Of course, a successful con artists would 333 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: have to be narcissistic to get away with what they do. 334 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: They're charming. Narcissists are charming, They're engaging, and they are persuasive. 335 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: A con artist must persuade you to do something that 336 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: you wouldn't normally do. They must gain your trust for 337 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: you to open your wallet. And what Lizzie did with 338 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: a lot of her customers in Orange County, she became 339 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: what they needed, their right hand person. She became there's 340 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: a term for it, rescue merchant rescue, merchant rescue merchant. 341 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: Her habit was to come in and scoop people up 342 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: with struggling businesses or fledgling businesses that wanted to grow. 343 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: And she said, hey, you know, I'm a c p A, which, 344 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: by the way, only about five people that have accounting 345 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: degrees become c p A. S it's a big deal. 346 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: And she actually went so far to say she had 347 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: a degree from Pepperdine, which is exclusive private school in Malibu. 348 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: So she became what they needed, which was help, and 349 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: help she did, oftentimes not as herself at all, which 350 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: leads to another thing that truly fascinates me about the 351 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: Lizzie Milder case. Her use of voice changing apps on 352 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: her phone to impersonate I R S agents, credit card wraps, 353 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: Chinese investors, and the litany of other characters she created 354 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: to scam her victims. That German ariston artist and a 355 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: Delvi famously used this voice changing app technique to very 356 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: successfully to scam her victims. So I start looking into 357 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: these voice changing apps and it freaks me out. There 358 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: are literally hundreds of them. Some are kind of shitty 359 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: and obvious like this one. While you can tell it 360 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like my voice per se, it can't really 361 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: pass as an iOS agent or a bankrupt It sounds 362 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: robotic and fake. But this other voice is totally believable. 363 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: I sound like a real live woman using this one. Hi, 364 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: my name is Marcy. I'm calling from Bank of America. 365 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: We've detected some unusual activity on your account, so we 366 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: froze it, and I just need to confirm your mother's 367 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: maiden name and social security number to secure your account. 368 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: Or what about this voice? I still sound like a man, 369 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: but I don't sound like me Jonathan Walton at all. Hi, 370 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: my name is Peter. I'm calling from the leasing office. 371 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: We were unable to deposit your rent check this month. 372 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: Can you confirm your accountant rowdy numbers which are printed 373 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 1: on the check so we won't be forced to send 374 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: you an eviction notice? Banks, these voice changing apps are scary. 375 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: You really can't believe what you hear over the phone anymore. 376 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: But you want to know what's even scarier. Those billion 377 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: dollar banks that you trust to keep your money safe 378 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: have a lot of giant security holes that con artists 379 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: are exploiting every single day. I talked about this with 380 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: gen Rodriguez. You might remember she's the one who uncovered 381 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: Lizzie scamming her boss out of almost a million dollars 382 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: and became a forensic accountant because of it. She took 383 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: the checks that I wrote to vendors and cash him 384 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: into personal check. Did she write checks to Lizzie Molder 385 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: or her company or income tax payments? It wasn't even 386 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: to anything. It was to other vendors. But the bank 387 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: never caught it. Oh so she just deposited checks in 388 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: her account. Boy, banks are sloppy. Think sure are you 389 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: think when you write the name on the check that 390 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: only that person can cash it? But it's not the case. 391 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: Even the fact that banks don't cover fraud, I think 392 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: that's the number one that people often say, Wait, what 393 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: what do you mean? They don't cover fraud? But sometimes 394 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: they'll call me, Yeah, they do it out of courtesy. 395 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: But really what they're doing is protecting themselves too, because 396 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: there's compliance on their side that they have to meet 397 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: in an upright to act as if they're they're they're 398 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: taking every precaution to protect your account, but if you 399 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: lose any money, they're they're not responsible, not technically, I 400 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: think people don't know that right. Banks aren't responsible for 401 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: protecting you from fraud. Only credit cards are. And when 402 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: Jen worked for the same company Lizzie Maulder did back 403 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: in she was shocked to find out that her boss's 404 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: bank cashed so many obviously fraudulent checks that Lizzie Malder forged. 405 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: They weren't even signed, but they never got caught, and 406 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: the bank cashed them, and the bank cashed them without 407 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: even catching it so many. So we should really at 408 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: our checkbooks, absolutely, right, because anyone can just rip a 409 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: check out. Absolutely. I have mine in my nightside table. 410 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: I should I should put them in some secure place. 411 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: You have a due diligence as a bank holder or 412 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: account holder to really check all of your statements. And 413 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: so often now we have electronic statements that we don't 414 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: see things, and things go through we're looking at it 415 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: on our phone. So you really have to do the 416 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,719 Speaker 1: due diligence to to pay attention because if you report it, 417 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: they most likely will support you if there's a fraud, 418 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: but they're not required a certain amount of time. Yeah, 419 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: it has to be within sixty days for sure, and 420 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: even that's a stretch. One of the things that's most 421 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 1: shocking about the Lizzie Milder case, though, as it relates 422 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: to banking in the United States, is even after the 423 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: fraud is discovered and after the bank concedes they cast 424 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: checks that have no signatures on them or blatantly bogus signatures, 425 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: they still took zero responsibility and gave back zero money 426 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: to the victims. I thought, you know, f D I 427 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: c IS is going to protect us. That's what they're 428 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: there for, for fraud and to make sure that these 429 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: kind of things don't happen. Salon owner Geneva Mendoza finds 430 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: out the hard way. A signature on a check is 431 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 1: as useless as a screen door on a submarine. So 432 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: we immediately we asked the bank, like, how could you 433 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: allow that to happen? These are not our signatures on 434 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: all these seventy seven checks. They're not our signatures. No 435 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: bank never caught that. No, wow, Yeah, So it calls 436 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: into question once in a signature nothing apparently, I guess, 437 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: you guess you could just take somebody's check book and 438 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: you can just write whatever you want. No one's checking 439 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: the signatures. In the end. Forensic accountant gen Rodriguez says 440 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: you should try to never use checks for anything, and 441 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: never use your a t M card to buy stuff. 442 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: Instead use a credit card because credit cards are obligated 443 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: by a lot of protect you from fraud. Are not 444 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: they'll do it as a courtesy, but they don't have to. 445 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: They don't have to go I'm gonna stop you some 446 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: ATM card. And the other great thing not that I'm 447 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: promoting credit cards, but the other great thing is they 448 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: have a much layered approach on fraud protection because they're liable. 449 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: How many times have you traveled and they shut down 450 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: your credit card because you didn't inform them. That's somebody 451 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: paying different level of attention. And the other thing is 452 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: is with credit cards, it's not fully attached to other things. 453 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: So if you wire from a bank account, you have 454 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: your bank account now you can pull money out. Once 455 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: some money's gone, it's gone. As for Lizzie's victims, it's 456 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: been five years since she scammed them and they've all 457 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: moved on with their lives. Mike Cochrane's print shop went 458 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: out of business. He's working as an industry sales rep 459 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: today and still dealing with staggering I R S penalties 460 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: because of Lizzie scams and what sucks is I mean 461 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: she took less than twenty grand out of me, and 462 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: look at she has wrecked my answers for five years 463 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,959 Speaker 1: and a hunter k plus. You know, I'm like, oh 464 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,239 Speaker 1: my god. You know, j Avery's winery went belly up 465 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: to because of what Lizzie did, and today he's working 466 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: in an entirely new field. He actually founded his own 467 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: drug treatment facility, stone Bridge Recovery in Utah, and he 468 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: and Marla are doing really well. This has clearly been 469 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: like a renaissance for you because you were an addict 470 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: and now you help people kick addictions. People don't understand. 471 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: I'm grateful for it, you know, because I realized that 472 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: I'm stronger than I thought I was. It empowered me 473 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: to be better and do better. A lot of this 474 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: was working through that, and then a couple of other things, 475 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: and then here I am, like I said, sometimes you 476 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: gotta go there to get to hear in. Part of 477 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: me is extremely grateful for her and what she did. 478 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: And I feel like we've gotten Marla and I have 479 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: gotten stronger. We're pretty bulletproof as a couple. Yeah, I 480 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: was curious I was going to stick around. We were 481 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: buying Peb and Jays and yeah got dark for a 482 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: little and Geneva and Laurence Salon powered by Tony and Guy. 483 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: They took out massive loans to blunt the fallout from 484 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: lizzie scams, but they bounced back. I would say, we're 485 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: doing pretty well until COVID, until COVID's like, yeah, another torpedo. Um, No, 486 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: we're doing well. Not everyone was that fortunate. For people 487 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: really did lose business. Yeah, and not only that, they 488 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: owe hundreds of thousands and taxes because of what she 489 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: claimed to be taking care of their taxes. I know, 490 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: and you would think that that I wrestle would forgive that, 491 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: but they don't. And Jen Rodriguez's boss, the one with 492 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: the luxury experience booking website that Lizzie scammed out of 493 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: more than eight hundred thousand dollars, she miraculously bounced back 494 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: to I really admire my boss, who's one of the 495 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: most giving, gracious, generous people I've ever met. And and honestly, 496 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: it almost brings me to tears because she's the kind 497 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: of person that had Lizzie ever said Hey, I need help, 498 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: will you help me pay for this or I'm really struggling. 499 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: My boss is one of the most giving people in 500 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: the world. But will Lizzie Mulder ever face any repercussions 501 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: for surreptitiously buying that house in San Juancapistrano and transferring 502 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: ownership to her husband while negotiating her guilty plea agreement 503 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: that remains to be seen. But Sergeant Jordan Mirackian is 504 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: certain of one thing. The only way Lizzie loses in 505 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: this is to keep this alive. Yes, you know, people 506 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: need to know what she looks like, who she is. 507 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: And if you believe that God, or the universe or 508 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: some supreme creator has a wicked sense of humor, or 509 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: even if you're an atheist who believes in hysterical coincidences, 510 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: Sergeant Miraqian leaves you this, and you know what her 511 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: day job was, right, What was her day job? Lizzie 512 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: Mulder while all this is going on, is a salesperson 513 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: for a fertilizer company. She sells shit. She sells shit, Yes, 514 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: that's how she was really making money. She sells bullshit. 515 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: How how incredibly ironic is all that? Queen of the 516 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: con The O C Savior is a production of a 517 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: Y R Media and I Heart Media. Hosted by Me 518 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions 519 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: and Eliza Rosen for A y R Media. Written by 520 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton, Consulting producer Evan Goldstein, Senior Associate producer Eric Newman. 521 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: Sound design by Baked Eady Media, mixed and mastered by 522 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: Cameron Taggy. Sound editing, audio and studio engineering by Matt Jacobson. 523 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: Legal counsel for A y R Media, Gianni Douglas, Executive 524 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: producer for I Heart Media. Maya Howard. If you've enjoyed 525 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: this season of Queen of a Con, leave us a 526 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: review wherever you get your podcasts, and for exclusive pictures 527 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: and videos of some of the things we talked about 528 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: in all ten episodes of The o C Savior, just 529 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: go to at Queen of the Con on Instagram.