WEBVTT - Trad Bows in Wild Places 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.440 You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:08.960 you by Exodus Trail Cameras. Now it's summertime, and that 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.799 means it's time to start getting our trail cameras ready 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:15.120 and our trail cameras out to start capturing pictures of 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:18.479 velvet bucks. And our friends at Exodus are kicking things 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.680 off with velvet Fest. Now what is velvet Fest? Long 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.840 story short, velvet Fest is the opportunity for you to 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.760 win a variety of different prizes just by purchasing Exodus 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.040 Trail Cameras, one of the best trail cameras on the 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:35.320 market now until July twelve. When you purchase any trail camera, 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.559 you will be automatically entered into a drawing to win 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.920 a variety of prizes from companies like Wicked Tree Gear, 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.000 MAYBN Rifle Scopes, Tethered Tree Saddles, and of course, Excedus 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:50.280 Trail Cameras. Be sure to follow Exodus on Facebook and Instagram, 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.880 and be sure to visit Exodus outdoor gear dot com 0:00:54.000 --> 0:01:01.440 for more information on velvet Fest. Your life will be 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:06.199 changed when you kill your first name with with a stick, 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.039 because will go this can happen and and I believe 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.080 that that when that happens, and some for some people 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.760 took me a few years before I did. But when 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.120 that happens, I don't know that you ever got back. 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.080 I despise the game of golf, so I can't believe 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.400 me bringing this up on the Barony Magazine podcast. But 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:25.959 you hear you hear people talking about golf how it's 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.640 like this game you never perfect, you know, you just 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.640 keep working. And that's what people that have nothing else 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.840 to do in their life choose to do when they 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.120 want to be golfers. But traditional arches like that, it's like, 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.479 no matter how long you've done it, you're you still 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:50.760 have to be on your a game. My name is 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.360 Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.919 I'll also be your host into the world of hunting 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:03.680 the icon in the Northern Rikan Wilderness. We'll talk about tactics, 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.160 gear conservation, but will also bring you into some of 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:16.359 the wildest country on the planet Chasing Bearer. On this 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.840 episode of the Bear Hunting Magazine Podcast, we're still in 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.840 the wild places of British Columbia, Canada with Jeff Lander 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:29.000 and Primitive Outfitting we're talking with Jeff, but also his 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:33.080 good buddy and now my good buddy, Dave. Keeper Dave 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:38.360 is an Alaskan resident in a lifelong traditional archer. So 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.480 Dave talks about hunting Alaska, hunting brown bears. But we 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.480 really just kind of have a camp fire, you know, 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:50.760 roundtable discussion of traditional archery, why we do it, the 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:56.240 self imposed limitations of traditional archery, and just lots of 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.720 general great discussion. Jeff talks about a hunt that he 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.280 and a were on just that week. I also want 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.840 to bring your tension to some of our good buddies 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:13.239 at the Western Bear Foundation. Western Bear Foundation is based 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.320 out of Cody, Wyoming. These guys are hunters and they 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.440 are in the heat of and in the at the 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:25.960 epicenter of the the issues revolving around bears out west, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.920 and they're taking a big stance and in the Western 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:34.800 Bear Foundation is rewriting the narrative for how hunters are 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.520 involved inside of the bear world. As you guys know, 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.440 there's a lot of a lot of hype, a lot 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.760 of negative stuff going on with the de listing of 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.560 the grizzly bear out in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Well, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.320 Joe con Dellis and the Western Bear Foundation are right 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.960 in the heat of it. They're they're a nonprofit organization, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:04:00.200 a membership driven nonprofit organization, and they're standing up up 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.160 for hunters. And the way that I would describe them 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:09.440 inside of rewriting the narrative is that they're actually doing 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:13.640 things that are keeping bears on the landscape. They're using 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:18.280 the funds that they have currently for two projects. Last summer, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:24.359 they installed bear proof bear proof food containers in some 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:29.159 of the hotspot camping regions in the area. And basically 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.360 they're saying, Hey, we don't want bears getting in trouble 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.800 here and then have to be killed. We don't want 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.320 them to be euthanized. They're putting their money where their 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.000 mouth is to keep bears on the landscape, and that's 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.599 what hunters do. The other place that they're putting money 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:48.560 in right now is that they're buying callers for research projects. 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:54.000 They're funding research in UH in the Greater Yellowstone region 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:59.080 and and basically what they're the message that we're sending 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.919 to the anti hunt in community, those that are against 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.320 our lifestyle and way of life and way of thinking, 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.320 is that they're saying, hey, we're interested in bears on 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:13.800 the landscape. We are interested in bears thriving in this ecosystem, 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:18.640 and we're hunters. And uh, the Western Bear Foundation great organization. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.000 Check them out, become a member, and uh, you know, 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.680 here's the truth. If you remember the Western Bear Foundation, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.560 you're gonna get Bear Hunting magazine sent to your house 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:35.320 six times a year. So it's a great way to 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:40.240 get Bear Honey magazine, but also support a great nonprofit 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:47.280 that is doing some stuff out west for bears. So 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:52.400 we are in British Columbia, Canada. We're at the at 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:57.320 the world headquarters of Primitive Outfitting with Jeff Lander, and 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.760 we've got Jeff's good buddy and now my good buddy 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:06.640 Dave Keeper here and uh, this is the this is 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.520 the sixth day that I've been here Jeff, and we've 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:13.200 had a incredible time. Saw big bears every day, put 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.039 stocks on big bears every day. The only complaint I 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.080 have about British Columbia is, uh, inconsistent wind. I don't 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.719 know if there's any way you could Is there anything 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.520 you could do about that? Hunting next to the railroad 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.000 when these trains are going by, the wind is going 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.719 the way they're going, or culverts or culverts when I 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:36.320 was went, that's another that's another story. Culvert wind has 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.080 to go through. Man, I've already dug as a hole. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:40.960 We can't get out of stalk to bear through a 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.560 culvert a few days ago. Now, hey, we're gonna talk 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:49.160 about traditional archery. Jeff. Jeff is a long time hardcore 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.559 traditional archer and Dave as well as a long time 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:58.400 hardcore traditional archer. These guys have a wealth of experience 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.520 and knowledge and sick excess and just so that's really 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.320 what we're talking about, because right now, what I see 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.600 inside of the hunting world, it's people looking for different 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:12.920 ways to enjoy the resource, different ways to to challenge 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.520 themselves inside of hunting. And you know, when I was 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.120 growing up in the nineties, that's kind of when I 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.440 came of age to hunt. Killing a deer with a 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.640 compound bow, Dave was a big deal. I was only 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.720 kidding my school that had ever done it. And uh 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.840 and at the and when my dad was in the 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.480 seventies started hunting with compounds and stuff. I mean, he 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.760 was the only guy in his town killing deer consistent 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:38.840 with a bow and so like that was a big 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.640 enough challenge, you know. And then man, by the late 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:46.040 nineties early two thousand's, everybody and their daughter was killing 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.000 deer with compound bows. I mean, people just became better hunters, 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:54.480 technology became better. And that is when I was introduced 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.280 to traditional archery by a gentleman that is to this 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:03.320 day a mentor to me. And uh. He talked about 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.480 hunting with trad bow on public land in Arkansas, and 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.760 I remember just thinking that's the way bow hunt ought 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:13.520 to be done and from a personal standard. And I 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.680 think that's something that we can't do, is tell somebody 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:17.560 else what they're supposed to do. We we just gotta 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:22.320 be true to what we want to get out of hunting, 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.920 you know. And uh, and so my journey was, and 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:27.600 I'm not here to talk about me, but you know, 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.320 over the course of fifteen years kind of transition to 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.679 now where really my primary weapon is usually going to 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.800 be a traditional bow, even though I still use compounds, 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.760 still use a rifle some But Jeff, to tell me 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.040 about your your you talked about it a little bit 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.920 this morning, but like you're history into and how you 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.520 got into trad bow hunting. Yeah, I mean I was, 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.559 I did a little bit with the compound for a 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.120 few years and really enjoyed it. I don't really remember 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.840 who got me into the compound. That was back in 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:03.679 the Martin days, the overdraw, you know, the sixteens, which 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:10.320 a lot of kids these days would But and then 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.480 I worked at it. When I was in Seattle, I 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:17.040 worked for a UM, a place called Salvino Sports. Dick 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:21.680 Salvino was good friends with her friends with Schaeffer, Sean 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:26.120 Schaeffer's bows. I was pretty opinionated, as most traditional guys, 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:31.040 traditional shooters are pretty opinionated about what they shoot and uh, 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:36.160 and so I started at his brain shooting his well, 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.679 his Schaeffer, and then another guy named Rocky Miller, who's 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:44.880 no longer making bows UM Heritage Archery, was shooting his bows. 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.880 And then I just ended up buying one. So at 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.000 first it was a little bit of peer pressure from 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.120 you know, my boss, just for fun, and then it 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.880 became enjoyable. Started shooting some three D shoots and the 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.800 summertimes realized what what heat does to a recurve bow, 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:06.280 you know, a hundred degree weather down eastern Washington laminated 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.559 my bow before yeah, well, first shot at the at 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:14.520 the range it eliminated. So yeah, um, and then just 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.880 kind of went from there, you know, with college and 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:22.840 and and success didn't start off right away, you know 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.520 what I mean, Unlike the compound. It was frustrating, but 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.640 just kind of stuck with it. We had little babies, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:30.280 so it wasn't like I was going on a lot 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.800 of hunts. But yeah, and then just what did you 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.040 what drew you to that challenge, to that level of 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.280 challenge because you could have stuck with a compound mm hmm, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:44.800 I don't know. Just uh, the simple how simple it was, simplicit. 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:49.160 And then making you know, arrows and splicing feathers and 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.080 even made my own self bow a few times. Yeah, 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.800 I didn't work out real well. I don't have that 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.400 craftsmanship like a lot of these guys do else. But yeah, 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.200 that's kind of how it started. And then I started 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:07.080 shooting the North American Longbow Safari. And there's a guy 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.760 in uh up in Alberta, Bert Frey Link's name, and 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.280 he was the leader of our group. And I didn't 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.320 know that it was a broadhead only shoot and wood arrows, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.760 and so I showed up to this thing. I just 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:26.080 had whatever aluminum arrows and this guy gave me like 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:32.559 eight beautifully crafted cedar arrows with spliced feathers and a 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:37.120 hundred ninety grain grizzlies on it. And yeah, so the 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.640 community is also what attracted me. It's just a real 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.840 tight knit community um like minded folks. So that's kind 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.600 of how it started. And then yeah, I just went 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:52.120 from a progression of you know, the first long bow 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.920 I bought from Rocky was eighty pounds. I figured you 0:11:54.960 --> 0:12:00.040 have to have similar to what my compound was. And 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.480 then and uh, and then went into sell bulls like 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.160 John Strunk, and so I kind of went down that 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.160 road for a while. Yea, the name of your outfit 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:13.880 is Primitive Outfitting. So I mean you you you like 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:20.800 the idea of traditional archery, just kind of the philosophy 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.360 of it, but as a as a business owner also 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.320 like compounds. Yeah, we gotta have compound guys in here. Yeah. Yeah, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.280 and I don't mind rifles either. So hey introduced Dave 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.560 to us. I know he could do a good job, 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.360 but I bet you could do better. I met Dave. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:42.120 Dave came up or came down from Alaska to hunt grizzlies, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:47.280 and that was probably ten years ago. I taught Dave 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.360 everything he knows about running the river, and uh so 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.720 we were flowing the river. I'd never really wait a minute, 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.439 are we inside of an inside joking? Okay, okay, it's 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.360 the other way around. So so Dave and I were 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.920 we were going down the river and I had really 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:08.040 never navigated a river with a raft. Here gap on 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.880 my one of the rivers area, and I was taking 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.720 his hat off. I was just I'm blowdowns and he pulled. 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:16.719 He says, get over to the side, and I get 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.760 to the side and he he gives me the quick 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.439 Alaska rundown. I'm tired of losing his sitcat. So you 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.720 took You were like, okay, Mr outfitter, let me drive 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.360 this boat. Well, it became immediate apparent that the guy, 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.920 you know, I just couldn't drive a boat, you know, 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.440 down the river. And uh it got to the point 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.840 where every willows ree along that river was it was 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.360 a target, you know. I mean, it was fun, but 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:47.040 I lost an outstanding hat on that. Don't worry about it. 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:52.080 I agree it. Uh So, yeah, that's kind of how 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.840 it worked. And we had a good, good hunt. He 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.920 had an opportunity, very big, grizzly and that's for another day. 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.040 But then it ends up that he hunted with me. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.520 I don't even know if two or three times in 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.800 the Edmonton bosone or more in the same down in 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.880 in my mule deer camp. And that buckets above your 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:15.080 head right now is one that he shot. And then 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.080 he came here a few years ago. Uh did you 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:20.520 come here two or three years in a row? I 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:26.280 don't even remember one or two? And then um yeah, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.960 then last ye took a year off when he had 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.600 some some heart work done, and which is a miracle 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:36.160 in itself that he's sitting here right now. Um, still cranky, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:41.440 but we're glad he's still kicking around. Yeah, giving me 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:46.080 a hard time. Yeah, yeah, but he's a he's a 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:51.400 veteran traditional mark big time, yeah, big time. Yeah. David, 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.400 Why don't you introduce yourself just a little a little 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.960 bit of history. How how old are you, David? Well, 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:01.920 I'm now, yeah, And uh I started, Uh, I didn't 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.720 have a choice. First off, when I started, it was 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:09.440 long bows and recurves. You it was that good. Yes, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.320 it was long bows and recurves only. And I didn't 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.280 have a choice. Back in the sixties, well, it was 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.640 nineteen sixty seven. Yeah, that's the first year I bought 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.840 a license. And uh, you know, how old would you 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.720 been then? No one, no, no, I was let's see, 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.560 I'm not doing a math. I was just guessing you're 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.080 a teenager. Yeah, I was still in high school. And uh, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.480 you know I was pretty born in nineteen o three. 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:40.800 It might look that way, but yeah, there we go. Okay, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.440 got the math right now? Now you got it? Yeah? Good? 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.240 But anyway, that's uh, it's it's a good are Uh. 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.760 The thing about traditional archery is I didn't have a choice, 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:56.640 and I was lucky because there wasn't a compound in 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.320 in uh, in the choosing of anything. It was just 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.360 simple pick up. If you wanted to be a bow hunter, 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.560 you shot a traditional art right. And I remember to 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.720 this day my cousin and another friend of mine were 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.600 instrumental in getting me started in high school. And we 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.280 had a place in Minnesota called Fort Ripley, so we 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.000 got ready for it to hunt fort Ripley. And I 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:26.440 remember that night before opening day sharpening broadheads for hours 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.760 and hours, and I had gone through herders to buy 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:34.840 my broadheads mail order catalog for those under Yeah, I've 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.600 just heard hearsay of it. Yeah it's uh, it's I 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.960 don't know who wounds it now, but uh, it was 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.760 the only source I had for buying traditional or any 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.520 kind of archery gear. And I had ordered some broadheads 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.960 and they were called herders Ramax broadheads. Well it must 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.000 have been made a pot steel because you could not 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:58.800 get him sharp For hours and hours, I practiced sharpening 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.880 at the camp fire. Finally my cousin said, here, here's 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.160 a bunch of delta's. Put them on there and they're 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.040 worth chefs and sharpen them. And I did that until 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:09.800 four o'clock and where when we had to get up 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:14.800 to go hunting. And uh, it was a learning experience, 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:19.160 but it also taught me that good gear was very 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:24.640 important and and uh, you know it just blossomed from there. 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.239 So what was your first traditional animal? What was your 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.280 first animal that you took? A forty two pound fawn? 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.800 Yeah that you're just a small target man, that's harder 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.360 and killing the big one. And I hit him when 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.399 he was running through the heart. I was just, you know, 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:42.000 plumb unconscious. Luck But now it's forty How did you 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:43.439 learn to shoot? Did you? I mean, did you just 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.840 there was probably very little resource about it, like form 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.600 and how you just started shooting it. Absolutely none. I 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:53.199 mean there wasn't anything, no social media. I just I 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.639 picked the bow up. We bought it, uh forty seven 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:00.360 pound Ben Pearson, and I'm where I lived to where 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.439 I could practice the bowl. It was kind of I 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:07.359 mean city type area in Minnesota, and I'd have to 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.600 ride my bike for two miles to come to these 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.200 bales in the park and I did it every day 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.080 after school, every everything. You were kind of mesmerized with 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:17.960 the ball. I loved it, you know, I mean I 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.359 had no idea what yardage was, just shooting it. Just shoot. 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:23.440 Let me ask you this. Did you find that the 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:29.840 native form that you began to use was correct? Yeah, 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.560 I've been lucky. I started with a merridy and draw, 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:37.560 which is one thing you're above two um split fingers, bit, 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:41.359 split finger I started that way and I've been that 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.040 way ever since, and I think my form is pretty good. 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.240 I've learned a lot from people over the years of 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.360 how to follow through, um, continue aiming at your target 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:56.360 in your mind, that type of thing and jet master stuff. Yeah, 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.200 it was all good. But but when I was learning 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.960 I didn't of anybody to teach me, and uh, I 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.240 just got lucky. What was your accurate range back in 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.080 those days? You know? I I thought about that over 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:14.640 the years. Uh, thirty yards was not not in question. 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.760 I mean I could not shoot thirty yards. We always 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:22.680 shot ten to fifteen to twenty. It was real clost 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.280 a matter of fact, I wouldn't even launch heroes like now, 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.000 I'd love to watch a narrow fly right, you know, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.240 fifty sixty yards, but we wouldn't even think about shooting 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.760 that far, you know, So I would say, my my 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:39.320 accurate rangers tend to yeah, you know, and like it 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.280 is now. Yeah, you know, well your eyes sight outside 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.040 of that's probably not too good. You know what. Jeff 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.119 I say, he was born in n You gotta give 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.440 him some credit. Yeah, he started reading when he's eighteen, 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.320 so yeah, but I didn't COMPREHENDI I was five, you know. 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:06.399 So the well, so you killed a deer. Now you 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.400 were living in Minnesota, but no, and I don't know 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:11.520 very much of your here story, but I know that 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:13.639 you were in Montana for years and now you're an 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.639 Alaskan resident. Have spent twenty something years in Alaska and 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.240 that's where you've done a tremendous amount of I mean 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.320 you've killed, you've you've taken tons of big game in 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:29.080 Alaska and Montana. I've been lucky. Well my careers. What 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.439 brought me a law enforcement and brought me to Montana. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.760 All the criminals are out west. Yeah, you bet we'll 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:40.879 see in Nebraska. Yeah, Nebraska. But but then I went 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:45.240 to Alaska and uh uh, you know, there's nothing like Alaska. 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.760 There's nothing like going to a place where you know, 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.800 nobody else has been. In Alaska, you can still find that. 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.200 You know, when you moved to Alaska for your job, 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.840 was the intent to I mean, did you want to 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.080 locate there so that you could hunt or was it 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.359 just where really where a job opportunity was and you 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:11.520 followed that Well, unfortunately all my moves were because of hunting. Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:15.040 it was just checking. It was absolutely uh number one, 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:17.480 when did you what year did you moved there? Man? 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:27.399 I don't even remember night something, yeah, you know. And 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:31.080 then but I took promotions down south, being down in 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.919 South in the lower and then came back up to Alaska. 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.080 You know that type of thing. My job afforded me uh, 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:43.120 you know, three moves and my family. Yeah, and and 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.800 the whole family would move. So you raised your family 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.840 in Alaska and you still got sons there. Yeah, all 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:54.480 the kids graduated in Alaska from high school. So tell 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:59.360 me and Jeff if you know some prodding questions for Dave, 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:04.479 but you to ask those, Um, what would so like 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:08.760 move into Alaska? Like today, I feel like Alaska is 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:12.800 much more known because of media. I mean just the 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.720 transmission of information is so available. But back in the eighties, 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:19.280 I mean Alaska, I mean, obviously you would have known 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:20.800 it was good hunting, and you would have known all 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.800 the good things about being an Alaska resident and a hunter. 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.679 But I mean, like, what was it like showing up 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.880 there a guy from Minnesota. Maybe he lived in Montana, 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.439 so you were kind of acclimated. But in starting to 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:35.200 bow hunt Alaska. So in and you've hunted and I'll 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.680 tee you up here. I mean, you've killed mountain grizzly 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:42.800 in Alaska, you've killed sheep, you've killed if you killed 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:47.320 the muskox up there, no bison up there, So I mean, 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.040 what was it like coming into that world with all 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:55.359 that opportunity? I think the most prevalent thing in my mind. 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.720 When I got up, there was very little organized I mean, 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.359 people really don't differentiate. If you want to shoot it 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:06.840 with a spear, go ahead, you can hunt right. Rife 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:10.199 lining is rife lining, and bow hunting is nuts. You know. 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.680 Most of those guys think what are you doing out here? Right? 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:16.520 And uh so I ran into a lot of that, 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:20.240 But it wasn't derogatory. It was just they chake their 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:23.159 head and walk away. I remember most of the floatplane operators, 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.000 you know, they'd go, what is this a fly rod? 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:28.640 You know, I don't know, it's a long goal, but 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.919 and they kind of giggle, you know, yeah, but it was, 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.920 uh you know, it's a challenge, and that's what traditional 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.920 archery is. Why didn't you pick up a gun? Well, 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.439 I just challenge, I think. I mean, I made my 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:44.280 living with a gun. You don't see a lot of 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:48.080 people go through this transition, is that they start off 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:50.560 with this limited technology, like you know, all you had 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:53.080 in the sixties was a wooden bow to shoot with, 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:56.640 and then as soon as new technology comes around, they're like, heck, yeah, 0:23:56.680 --> 0:24:00.240 I forget that stuff. But you stayed with it. Well, no, 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:04.560 I hadn't. I went on to the compound, and I 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:07.440 have no problem with going back to it some days physically. 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:09.919 If I have a problem, I'm gonna go back to it, 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.600 you know. And uh, I have no problem with that. 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:15.719 Uh but uh yeah, there is a trend to make 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:19.240 it easier. Yeah, you took heat for that too, big time. 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:23.639 Oh man, did I yeah? Tell us, well, no, I 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:26.560 mean he comes from the era of I mean there's 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:29.600 a lot of a lot of folks out there who 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:33.040 are friends of ours, who are in you know, big 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:37.560 in the business. Whoever some bowmakers and traditional bow hunter 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:41.199 guys that when you switch over, it's like you've cheated 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:44.600 on your wife, you know. Yeah, it really is fascinating 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:51.760