Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to
Speaker 1: you by Exodus Trail Cameras. Now it's summertime, and that
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Speaker 1: for more information on velvet Fest. Your life will be
Speaker 1: changed when you kill your first name with with a stick,
Speaker 1: because will go this can happen and and I believe
Speaker 1: that that when that happens, and some for some people
Speaker 1: took me a few years before I did. But when
Speaker 1: that happens, I don't know that you ever got back.
Speaker 1: I despise the game of golf, so I can't believe
Speaker 1: me bringing this up on the Barony Magazine podcast. But
Speaker 1: you hear you hear people talking about golf how it's
Speaker 1: like this game you never perfect, you know, you just
Speaker 1: keep working. And that's what people that have nothing else
Speaker 1: to do in their life choose to do when they
Speaker 1: want to be golfers. But traditional arches like that, it's like,
Speaker 1: no matter how long you've done it, you're you still
Speaker 1: have to be on your a game. My name is
Speaker 1: Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast.
Speaker 1: I'll also be your host into the world of hunting
Speaker 1: the icon in the Northern Rikan Wilderness. We'll talk about tactics,
Speaker 1: gear conservation, but will also bring you into some of
Speaker 1: the wildest country on the planet Chasing Bearer. On this
Speaker 1: episode of the Bear Hunting Magazine Podcast, we're still in
Speaker 1: the wild places of British Columbia, Canada with Jeff Lander
Speaker 1: and Primitive Outfitting we're talking with Jeff, but also his
Speaker 1: good buddy and now my good buddy, Dave. Keeper Dave
Speaker 1: is an Alaskan resident in a lifelong traditional archer. So
Speaker 1: Dave talks about hunting Alaska, hunting brown bears. But we
Speaker 1: really just kind of have a camp fire, you know,
Speaker 1: roundtable discussion of traditional archery, why we do it, the
Speaker 1: self imposed limitations of traditional archery, and just lots of
Speaker 1: general great discussion. Jeff talks about a hunt that he
Speaker 1: and a were on just that week. I also want
Speaker 1: to bring your tension to some of our good buddies
Speaker 1: at the Western Bear Foundation. Western Bear Foundation is based
Speaker 1: out of Cody, Wyoming. These guys are hunters and they
Speaker 1: are in the heat of and in the at the
Speaker 1: epicenter of the the issues revolving around bears out west,
Speaker 1: and they're taking a big stance and in the Western
Speaker 1: Bear Foundation is rewriting the narrative for how hunters are
Speaker 1: involved inside of the bear world. As you guys know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of hype, a lot
Speaker 1: of negative stuff going on with the de listing of
Speaker 1: the grizzly bear out in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Well,
Speaker 1: Joe con Dellis and the Western Bear Foundation are right
Speaker 1: in the heat of it. They're they're a nonprofit organization,
Speaker 1: a membership driven nonprofit organization, and they're standing up up
Speaker 1: for hunters. And the way that I would describe them
Speaker 1: inside of rewriting the narrative is that they're actually doing
Speaker 1: things that are keeping bears on the landscape. They're using
Speaker 1: the funds that they have currently for two projects. Last summer,
Speaker 1: they installed bear proof bear proof food containers in some
Speaker 1: of the hotspot camping regions in the area. And basically
Speaker 1: they're saying, Hey, we don't want bears getting in trouble
Speaker 1: here and then have to be killed. We don't want
Speaker 1: them to be euthanized. They're putting their money where their
Speaker 1: mouth is to keep bears on the landscape, and that's
Speaker 1: what hunters do. The other place that they're putting money
Speaker 1: in right now is that they're buying callers for research projects.
Speaker 1: They're funding research in UH in the Greater Yellowstone region
Speaker 1: and and basically what they're the message that we're sending
Speaker 1: to the anti hunt in community, those that are against
Speaker 1: our lifestyle and way of life and way of thinking,
Speaker 1: is that they're saying, hey, we're interested in bears on
Speaker 1: the landscape. We are interested in bears thriving in this ecosystem,
Speaker 1: and we're hunters. And uh, the Western Bear Foundation great organization.
Speaker 1: Check them out, become a member, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: here's the truth. If you remember the Western Bear Foundation,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get Bear Hunting magazine sent to your house
Speaker 1: six times a year. So it's a great way to
Speaker 1: get Bear Honey magazine, but also support a great nonprofit
Speaker 1: that is doing some stuff out west for bears. So
Speaker 1: we are in British Columbia, Canada. We're at the at
Speaker 1: the world headquarters of Primitive Outfitting with Jeff Lander, and
Speaker 1: we've got Jeff's good buddy and now my good buddy
Speaker 1: Dave Keeper here and uh, this is the this is
Speaker 1: the sixth day that I've been here Jeff, and we've
Speaker 1: had a incredible time. Saw big bears every day, put
Speaker 1: stocks on big bears every day. The only complaint I
Speaker 1: have about British Columbia is, uh, inconsistent wind. I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's any way you could Is there anything
Speaker 1: you could do about that? Hunting next to the railroad
Speaker 1: when these trains are going by, the wind is going
Speaker 1: the way they're going, or culverts or culverts when I
Speaker 1: was went, that's another that's another story. Culvert wind has
Speaker 1: to go through. Man, I've already dug as a hole.
Speaker 1: We can't get out of stalk to bear through a
Speaker 1: culvert a few days ago. Now, hey, we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about traditional archery. Jeff. Jeff is a long time hardcore
Speaker 1: traditional archer and Dave as well as a long time
Speaker 1: hardcore traditional archer. These guys have a wealth of experience
Speaker 1: and knowledge and sick excess and just so that's really
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, because right now, what I see
Speaker 1: inside of the hunting world, it's people looking for different
Speaker 1: ways to enjoy the resource, different ways to to challenge
Speaker 1: themselves inside of hunting. And you know, when I was
Speaker 1: growing up in the nineties, that's kind of when I
Speaker 1: came of age to hunt. Killing a deer with a
Speaker 1: compound bow, Dave was a big deal. I was only
Speaker 1: kidding my school that had ever done it. And uh
Speaker 1: and at the and when my dad was in the
Speaker 1: seventies started hunting with compounds and stuff. I mean, he
Speaker 1: was the only guy in his town killing deer consistent
Speaker 1: with a bow and so like that was a big
Speaker 1: enough challenge, you know. And then man, by the late
Speaker 1: nineties early two thousand's, everybody and their daughter was killing
Speaker 1: deer with compound bows. I mean, people just became better hunters,
Speaker 1: technology became better. And that is when I was introduced
Speaker 1: to traditional archery by a gentleman that is to this
Speaker 1: day a mentor to me. And uh. He talked about
Speaker 1: hunting with trad bow on public land in Arkansas, and
Speaker 1: I remember just thinking that's the way bow hunt ought
Speaker 1: to be done and from a personal standard. And I
Speaker 1: think that's something that we can't do, is tell somebody
Speaker 1: else what they're supposed to do. We we just gotta
Speaker 1: be true to what we want to get out of hunting,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, and so my journey was, and
Speaker 1: I'm not here to talk about me, but you know,
Speaker 1: over the course of fifteen years kind of transition to
Speaker 1: now where really my primary weapon is usually going to
Speaker 1: be a traditional bow, even though I still use compounds,
Speaker 1: still use a rifle some But Jeff, to tell me
Speaker 1: about your your you talked about it a little bit
Speaker 1: this morning, but like you're history into and how you
Speaker 1: got into trad bow hunting. Yeah, I mean I was,
Speaker 1: I did a little bit with the compound for a
Speaker 1: few years and really enjoyed it. I don't really remember
Speaker 1: who got me into the compound. That was back in
Speaker 1: the Martin days, the overdraw, you know, the sixteens, which
Speaker 1: a lot of kids these days would But and then
Speaker 1: I worked at it. When I was in Seattle, I
Speaker 1: worked for a UM, a place called Salvino Sports. Dick
Speaker 1: Salvino was good friends with her friends with Schaeffer, Sean
Speaker 1: Schaeffer's bows. I was pretty opinionated, as most traditional guys,
Speaker 1: traditional shooters are pretty opinionated about what they shoot and uh,
Speaker 1: and so I started at his brain shooting his well,
Speaker 1: his Schaeffer, and then another guy named Rocky Miller, who's
Speaker 1: no longer making bows UM Heritage Archery, was shooting his bows.
Speaker 1: And then I just ended up buying one. So at
Speaker 1: first it was a little bit of peer pressure from
Speaker 1: you know, my boss, just for fun, and then it
Speaker 1: became enjoyable. Started shooting some three D shoots and the
Speaker 1: summertimes realized what what heat does to a recurve bow,
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred degree weather down eastern Washington laminated
Speaker 1: my bow before yeah, well, first shot at the at
Speaker 1: the range it eliminated. So yeah, um, and then just
Speaker 1: kind of went from there, you know, with college and
Speaker 1: and and success didn't start off right away, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Unlike the compound. It was frustrating, but
Speaker 1: just kind of stuck with it. We had little babies,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't like I was going on a lot
Speaker 1: of hunts. But yeah, and then just what did you
Speaker 1: what drew you to that challenge, to that level of
Speaker 1: challenge because you could have stuck with a compound mm hmm,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Just uh, the simple how simple it was, simplicit.
Speaker 1: And then making you know, arrows and splicing feathers and
Speaker 1: even made my own self bow a few times. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't work out real well. I don't have that
Speaker 1: craftsmanship like a lot of these guys do else. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of how it started. And then I started
Speaker 1: shooting the North American Longbow Safari. And there's a guy
Speaker 1: in uh up in Alberta, Bert Frey Link's name, and
Speaker 1: he was the leader of our group. And I didn't
Speaker 1: know that it was a broadhead only shoot and wood arrows,
Speaker 1: and so I showed up to this thing. I just
Speaker 1: had whatever aluminum arrows and this guy gave me like
Speaker 1: eight beautifully crafted cedar arrows with spliced feathers and a
Speaker 1: hundred ninety grain grizzlies on it. And yeah, so the
Speaker 1: community is also what attracted me. It's just a real
Speaker 1: tight knit community um like minded folks. So that's kind
Speaker 1: of how it started. And then yeah, I just went
Speaker 1: from a progression of you know, the first long bow
Speaker 1: I bought from Rocky was eighty pounds. I figured you
Speaker 1: have to have similar to what my compound was. And
Speaker 1: then and uh, and then went into sell bulls like
Speaker 1: John Strunk, and so I kind of went down that
Speaker 1: road for a while. Yea, the name of your outfit
Speaker 1: is Primitive Outfitting. So I mean you you you like
Speaker 1: the idea of traditional archery, just kind of the philosophy
Speaker 1: of it, but as a as a business owner also
Speaker 1: like compounds. Yeah, we gotta have compound guys in here. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't mind rifles either. So hey introduced Dave
Speaker 1: to us. I know he could do a good job,
Speaker 1: but I bet you could do better. I met Dave.
Speaker 1: Dave came up or came down from Alaska to hunt grizzlies,
Speaker 1: and that was probably ten years ago. I taught Dave
Speaker 1: everything he knows about running the river, and uh so
Speaker 1: we were flowing the river. I'd never really wait a minute,
Speaker 1: are we inside of an inside joking? Okay, okay, it's
Speaker 1: the other way around. So so Dave and I were
Speaker 1: we were going down the river and I had really
Speaker 1: never navigated a river with a raft. Here gap on
Speaker 1: my one of the rivers area, and I was taking
Speaker 1: his hat off. I was just I'm blowdowns and he pulled.
Speaker 1: He says, get over to the side, and I get
Speaker 1: to the side and he he gives me the quick
Speaker 1: Alaska rundown. I'm tired of losing his sitcat. So you
Speaker 1: took You were like, okay, Mr outfitter, let me drive
Speaker 1: this boat. Well, it became immediate apparent that the guy,
Speaker 1: you know, I just couldn't drive a boat, you know,
Speaker 1: down the river. And uh it got to the point
Speaker 1: where every willows ree along that river was it was
Speaker 1: a target, you know. I mean, it was fun, but
Speaker 1: I lost an outstanding hat on that. Don't worry about it.
Speaker 1: I agree it. Uh So, yeah, that's kind of how
Speaker 1: it worked. And we had a good, good hunt. He
Speaker 1: had an opportunity, very big, grizzly and that's for another day.
Speaker 1: But then it ends up that he hunted with me.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if two or three times in
Speaker 1: the Edmonton bosone or more in the same down in
Speaker 1: in my mule deer camp. And that buckets above your
Speaker 1: head right now is one that he shot. And then
Speaker 1: he came here a few years ago. Uh did you
Speaker 1: come here two or three years in a row? I
Speaker 1: don't even remember one or two? And then um yeah,
Speaker 1: then last ye took a year off when he had
Speaker 1: some some heart work done, and which is a miracle
Speaker 1: in itself that he's sitting here right now. Um, still cranky,
Speaker 1: but we're glad he's still kicking around. Yeah, giving me
Speaker 1: a hard time. Yeah, yeah, but he's a he's a
Speaker 1: veteran traditional mark big time, yeah, big time. Yeah. David,
Speaker 1: Why don't you introduce yourself just a little a little
Speaker 1: bit of history. How how old are you, David? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm now, yeah, And uh I started, Uh, I didn't
Speaker 1: have a choice. First off, when I started, it was
Speaker 1: long bows and recurves. You it was that good. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was long bows and recurves only. And I didn't
Speaker 1: have a choice. Back in the sixties, well, it was
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven. Yeah, that's the first year I bought
Speaker 1: a license. And uh, you know, how old would you
Speaker 1: been then? No one, no, no, I was let's see,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing a math. I was just guessing you're
Speaker 1: a teenager. Yeah, I was still in high school. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know I was pretty born in nineteen o three.
Speaker 1: It might look that way, but yeah, there we go. Okay,
Speaker 1: got the math right now? Now you got it? Yeah? Good?
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's uh, it's it's a good are Uh.
Speaker 1: The thing about traditional archery is I didn't have a choice,
Speaker 1: and I was lucky because there wasn't a compound in
Speaker 1: in uh, in the choosing of anything. It was just
Speaker 1: simple pick up. If you wanted to be a bow hunter,
Speaker 1: you shot a traditional art right. And I remember to
Speaker 1: this day my cousin and another friend of mine were
Speaker 1: instrumental in getting me started in high school. And we
Speaker 1: had a place in Minnesota called Fort Ripley, so we
Speaker 1: got ready for it to hunt fort Ripley. And I
Speaker 1: remember that night before opening day sharpening broadheads for hours
Speaker 1: and hours, and I had gone through herders to buy
Speaker 1: my broadheads mail order catalog for those under Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: just heard hearsay of it. Yeah it's uh, it's I
Speaker 1: don't know who wounds it now, but uh, it was
Speaker 1: the only source I had for buying traditional or any
Speaker 1: kind of archery gear. And I had ordered some broadheads
Speaker 1: and they were called herders Ramax broadheads. Well it must
Speaker 1: have been made a pot steel because you could not
Speaker 1: get him sharp For hours and hours, I practiced sharpening
Speaker 1: at the camp fire. Finally my cousin said, here, here's
Speaker 1: a bunch of delta's. Put them on there and they're
Speaker 1: worth chefs and sharpen them. And I did that until
Speaker 1: four o'clock and where when we had to get up
Speaker 1: to go hunting. And uh, it was a learning experience,
Speaker 1: but it also taught me that good gear was very
Speaker 1: important and and uh, you know it just blossomed from there.
Speaker 1: So what was your first traditional animal? What was your
Speaker 1: first animal that you took? A forty two pound fawn?
Speaker 1: Yeah that you're just a small target man, that's harder
Speaker 1: and killing the big one. And I hit him when
Speaker 1: he was running through the heart. I was just, you know,
Speaker 1: plumb unconscious. Luck But now it's forty How did you
Speaker 1: learn to shoot? Did you? I mean, did you just
Speaker 1: there was probably very little resource about it, like form
Speaker 1: and how you just started shooting it. Absolutely none. I
Speaker 1: mean there wasn't anything, no social media. I just I
Speaker 1: picked the bow up. We bought it, uh forty seven
Speaker 1: pound Ben Pearson, and I'm where I lived to where
Speaker 1: I could practice the bowl. It was kind of I
Speaker 1: mean city type area in Minnesota, and I'd have to
Speaker 1: ride my bike for two miles to come to these
Speaker 1: bales in the park and I did it every day
Speaker 1: after school, every everything. You were kind of mesmerized with
Speaker 1: the ball. I loved it, you know, I mean I
Speaker 1: had no idea what yardage was, just shooting it. Just shoot.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. Did you find that the
Speaker 1: native form that you began to use was correct? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been lucky. I started with a merridy and draw,
Speaker 1: which is one thing you're above two um split fingers, bit,
Speaker 1: split finger I started that way and I've been that
Speaker 1: way ever since, and I think my form is pretty good.
Speaker 1: I've learned a lot from people over the years of
Speaker 1: how to follow through, um, continue aiming at your target
Speaker 1: in your mind, that type of thing and jet master stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was all good. But but when I was learning
Speaker 1: I didn't of anybody to teach me, and uh, I
Speaker 1: just got lucky. What was your accurate range back in
Speaker 1: those days? You know? I I thought about that over
Speaker 1: the years. Uh, thirty yards was not not in question.
Speaker 1: I mean I could not shoot thirty yards. We always
Speaker 1: shot ten to fifteen to twenty. It was real clost
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I wouldn't even launch heroes like now,
Speaker 1: I'd love to watch a narrow fly right, you know,
Speaker 1: fifty sixty yards, but we wouldn't even think about shooting
Speaker 1: that far, you know, So I would say, my my
Speaker 1: accurate rangers tend to yeah, you know, and like it
Speaker 1: is now. Yeah, you know, well your eyes sight outside
Speaker 1: of that's probably not too good. You know what. Jeff
Speaker 1: I say, he was born in n You gotta give
Speaker 1: him some credit. Yeah, he started reading when he's eighteen,
Speaker 1: so yeah, but I didn't COMPREHENDI I was five, you know.
Speaker 1: So the well, so you killed a deer. Now you
Speaker 1: were living in Minnesota, but no, and I don't know
Speaker 1: very much of your here story, but I know that
Speaker 1: you were in Montana for years and now you're an
Speaker 1: Alaskan resident. Have spent twenty something years in Alaska and
Speaker 1: that's where you've done a tremendous amount of I mean
Speaker 1: you've killed, you've you've taken tons of big game in
Speaker 1: Alaska and Montana. I've been lucky. Well my careers. What
Speaker 1: brought me a law enforcement and brought me to Montana.
Speaker 1: All the criminals are out west. Yeah, you bet we'll
Speaker 1: see in Nebraska. Yeah, Nebraska. But but then I went
Speaker 1: to Alaska and uh uh, you know, there's nothing like Alaska.
Speaker 1: There's nothing like going to a place where you know,
Speaker 1: nobody else has been. In Alaska, you can still find that.
Speaker 1: You know, when you moved to Alaska for your job,
Speaker 1: was the intent to I mean, did you want to
Speaker 1: locate there so that you could hunt or was it
Speaker 1: just where really where a job opportunity was and you
Speaker 1: followed that Well, unfortunately all my moves were because of hunting. Okay, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just checking. It was absolutely uh number one,
Speaker 1: when did you what year did you moved there? Man?
Speaker 1: I don't even remember night something, yeah, you know. And
Speaker 1: then but I took promotions down south, being down in
Speaker 1: South in the lower and then came back up to Alaska.
Speaker 1: You know that type of thing. My job afforded me uh,
Speaker 1: you know, three moves and my family. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: the whole family would move. So you raised your family
Speaker 1: in Alaska and you still got sons there. Yeah, all
Speaker 1: the kids graduated in Alaska from high school. So tell
Speaker 1: me and Jeff if you know some prodding questions for Dave,
Speaker 1: but you to ask those, Um, what would so like
Speaker 1: move into Alaska? Like today, I feel like Alaska is
Speaker 1: much more known because of media. I mean just the
Speaker 1: transmission of information is so available. But back in the eighties,
Speaker 1: I mean Alaska, I mean, obviously you would have known
Speaker 1: it was good hunting, and you would have known all
Speaker 1: the good things about being an Alaska resident and a hunter.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like, what was it like showing up
Speaker 1: there a guy from Minnesota. Maybe he lived in Montana,
Speaker 1: so you were kind of acclimated. But in starting to
Speaker 1: bow hunt Alaska. So in and you've hunted and I'll
Speaker 1: tee you up here. I mean, you've killed mountain grizzly
Speaker 1: in Alaska, you've killed sheep, you've killed if you killed
Speaker 1: the muskox up there, no bison up there, So I mean,
Speaker 1: what was it like coming into that world with all
Speaker 1: that opportunity? I think the most prevalent thing in my mind.
Speaker 1: When I got up, there was very little organized I mean,
Speaker 1: people really don't differentiate. If you want to shoot it
Speaker 1: with a spear, go ahead, you can hunt right. Rife
Speaker 1: lining is rife lining, and bow hunting is nuts. You know.
Speaker 1: Most of those guys think what are you doing out here? Right?
Speaker 1: And uh so I ran into a lot of that,
Speaker 1: But it wasn't derogatory. It was just they chake their
Speaker 1: head and walk away. I remember most of the floatplane operators,
Speaker 1: you know, they'd go, what is this a fly rod?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, it's a long goal, but
Speaker 1: and they kind of giggle, you know, yeah, but it was,
Speaker 1: uh you know, it's a challenge, and that's what traditional
Speaker 1: archery is. Why didn't you pick up a gun? Well,
Speaker 1: I just challenge, I think. I mean, I made my
Speaker 1: living with a gun. You don't see a lot of
Speaker 1: people go through this transition, is that they start off
Speaker 1: with this limited technology, like you know, all you had
Speaker 1: in the sixties was a wooden bow to shoot with,
Speaker 1: and then as soon as new technology comes around, they're like, heck, yeah,
Speaker 1: I forget that stuff. But you stayed with it. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I hadn't. I went on to the compound, and I
Speaker 1: have no problem with going back to it some days physically.
Speaker 1: If I have a problem, I'm gonna go back to it,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, I have no problem with that.
Speaker 1: Uh but uh yeah, there is a trend to make
Speaker 1: it easier. Yeah, you took heat for that too, big time.
Speaker 1: Oh man, did I yeah? Tell us, well, no, I
Speaker 1: mean he comes from the era of I mean there's
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of folks out there who
Speaker 1: are friends of ours, who are in you know, big
Speaker 1: in the business. Whoever some bowmakers and traditional bow hunter
Speaker 1: guys that when you switch over, it's like you've cheated
Speaker 1: on your wife, you know. Yeah, it really is fascinating
Speaker 1: how that works because traditional shooters are mostly the older
Speaker 1: school guys, like we've got some yourself and and um
Speaker 1: Jake and whatever that are young, you know, and you
Speaker 1: don't see that maybe necessarily as much as far as
Speaker 1: the old old school guys. If you switch or you
Speaker 1: go to a compound, all of a sudden, you're you're
Speaker 1: you're out of the club pretty much pretty much. And
Speaker 1: uh um, but not only out of the club, but
Speaker 1: you're you're you're the devil. Friendships are affected by it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's crazy, it's crazy. But what part of the human
Speaker 1: psyche does that categorize into? I mean, like for real,
Speaker 1: like it's it's such a it's such a niche. It's
Speaker 1: such a close knit group that all of a sudden
Speaker 1: when you do something different, it's like, I mean, I
Speaker 1: understand it, but it's it is an interesting humans. The
Speaker 1: political climate right now, Yeah, I mean that's that's probably
Speaker 1: a good way to put it. Is that it's like
Speaker 1: if you all of a sudden, we're you know, a
Speaker 1: Reagan Republican and you switched over to whatever Democrat. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're done. Like your followers are start following you and whatever,
Speaker 1: and I think that's starting to go start to fade
Speaker 1: as as the older Yeah, so it's like you broken ideology.
Speaker 1: It's like you broken ideology. I was talking this morning
Speaker 1: with Jake about how when I first started shooting tread
Speaker 1: or gut to tread bow and like two thousand one
Speaker 1: or two, um, the guy that that gave me the bow,
Speaker 1: uh pretty much said you know, you can't do both.
Speaker 1: You can't shoot a compound and this and be successful.
Speaker 1: And I kind of got his point. But what I
Speaker 1: found is that you know, I'm I can navigate both weapons.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I found up? I can navigate
Speaker 1: to both weapons too, But lots of people have told
Speaker 1: me that same thing. But I tell you I'm a
Speaker 1: much better traditional shot after I've tried to compound for
Speaker 1: a while. I don't know why, but uh yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: much much better just aiming techniques or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: I shoot traditionally much better after shot a pin with
Speaker 1: What do you guys think about the and I hope
Speaker 1: that we are seeing a trend of a lot of
Speaker 1: new people coming into traditional archery. Um, but you guys
Speaker 1: haven't been there for a long time. What are you?
Speaker 1: What are your perceptions like good and bad? You can
Speaker 1: say whatever you want of what well just like like
Speaker 1: uh um, perhaps it could be like a Well, what
Speaker 1: I've always said is that you can't fake traditional archery,
Speaker 1: like uh with a compound. You can. You can get
Speaker 1: a compound. You can become proficient relatively quickly, relatively easy.
Speaker 1: You can't fake a traditional bow. I think sometimes people
Speaker 1: perceive that and then so they want to become a
Speaker 1: traditional archer. And then but then maybe they I don't know,
Speaker 1: just what are your perceptions of new people coming because
Speaker 1: new people, you bring new ideology, new stuff. And I
Speaker 1: mean we kind of talked about that. I mean some
Speaker 1: of the things the kids are doing these days, they're
Speaker 1: breaking the you know, three fingers under in clickers. I
Speaker 1: mean that's a big deal. Yeah, I think I'm not
Speaker 1: even necessarily talking about that. I think most most of
Speaker 1: us when we start off, you know, young, are shooting
Speaker 1: a stick. You know, our parents buy force you fling
Speaker 1: around at sparrows or whatever. I mean, I had an
Speaker 1: old herder's recurve and I'd go down to the river
Speaker 1: and shoot carp you know, in great school for the day,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I think that it's the natural um,
Speaker 1: not progression. But I think people are so efficient with
Speaker 1: these things now, I mean like deadly, deadly proficient with
Speaker 1: compound bows. May I see it every year and fall
Speaker 1: in spring. It blows me away, the guys who can
Speaker 1: shoot and really shoot, you know. And I think that
Speaker 1: after a while you might get you want more of
Speaker 1: a challenge, and now it's it's the it's the rage now,
Speaker 1: you know. And you can attribute some of that too,
Speaker 1: Like we're talking Schneider, Aaron Schneider, he kind of blew
Speaker 1: the you know, grabbed it and killed a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff with it, which kind of you know, And so
Speaker 1: for a lot of the old school guys, I think
Speaker 1: that kind of I don't think they knew how to
Speaker 1: handle that, you know. And uh, and then because of that,
Speaker 1: and I'm just using that just one example. But now
Speaker 1: with social media and all the things that you can
Speaker 1: see at the click of a finger, people are thinking
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's romantic, and it's and it's whatever
Speaker 1: and simple. But now a lot of people are going
Speaker 1: on that route, which is great. I think, whatever it takes.
Speaker 1: The only thing I really like to say about that
Speaker 1: is that, um, don't do it because somebody else is
Speaker 1: doing it to them that you're right, do it for
Speaker 1: yourself because you like simplicity, like you like challenge, or
Speaker 1: whatever the reason. Do it for yourself and feel good
Speaker 1: about it, right, don't don't don't show off to somebody
Speaker 1: else just because you think they want you to. Look,
Speaker 1: which isn't why Aaron did it. No, he just got
Speaker 1: tired of just killing stuff with his compound. It was
Speaker 1: so proficient. But and he doesn't like the accolades. I mean,
Speaker 1: when you tell him that you know that what you're
Speaker 1: doing is changing some stuff. And I mean again, I'm
Speaker 1: just using him as example just because I know him
Speaker 1: and h but I think it's kind of the the
Speaker 1: rage right now. People are doing it and which is
Speaker 1: great for the boyers and carolmakers and stuff. And it's fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is fun. It's a lot of fun
Speaker 1: to shoot and frustrating, super frustrating. Well look at the
Speaker 1: you call any of these boyers up now you want
Speaker 1: a new bowl, You're you're you're looking at a year
Speaker 1: to a year and a half and they're worth more
Speaker 1: than compounds exactly. Yea by a long shot on some
Speaker 1: of these boys. Yeah, so you know, absolutely it's growing.
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah it is cool. You know. Uh, to me,
Speaker 1: just to shoot a traditional bow is fun. And I'm
Speaker 1: a very proficient compound shooter and shooting a compound has
Speaker 1: never been fun to I mean, just like Joey, Like
Speaker 1: I hear people talk about that, but how much they
Speaker 1: enjoy shooting a comment and and I mean just for
Speaker 1: sheer pleasure, just go out and just plank arrows. And
Speaker 1: I don't want to say I don't enjoy it, but
Speaker 1: to shoot a traditional bow it's fun. Yeah. It kind
Speaker 1: of brought back some of the the maybe initial joy
Speaker 1: and statisfaction that I had with the compound. It's it's
Speaker 1: brought it back, and it's it's kind of like what
Speaker 1: I hear, I despise the game of golf. So I
Speaker 1: can't believe me bringing this up on the Barony Magazine podcast.
Speaker 1: But you hear you hear people talking about golf how
Speaker 1: it's like this game you never perfect, you know, you
Speaker 1: just keep working. And that's what people that have nothing
Speaker 1: else to do in their life choose to do when
Speaker 1: they want to be golfers. Um. Traditional archery is Uh,
Speaker 1: I knew, I knew I was gonna step on somebody's feet. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm teasing. My dad tried to push us
Speaker 1: to be golfers. Um. But traditional archers like that, it's like,
Speaker 1: no matter how long you've done it, you're you still
Speaker 1: have to be on your a game to shoot profishent
Speaker 1: in the field and take animals. There's a funny story
Speaker 1: about when I was in high school junior year. Uh,
Speaker 1: we had a class called archery and it's split to golf. Well,
Speaker 1: I had absolutely no idea what golf was. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're hitting a ball around her trying to put a
Speaker 1: whole right. That's that that was just plumb boring, right. Anyway,
Speaker 1: the teacher, who was a cool guy, said, hey, you
Speaker 1: shoot a bull a lot, don't you. I says yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: He says, well, I don't know any about bulls, So
Speaker 1: would you teach the bull part and I'll teach the
Speaker 1: archery part. I'll give you an A and I says,
Speaker 1: you beat you? And then guess what I got any
Speaker 1: out of that. So there was a class that was
Speaker 1: split between archery and golf. Archery, golf the game. It
Speaker 1: was like two parts parts right, And that was pretty wild.
Speaker 1: That was maybe there is some similarities there. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta put it somewhere, you know. Mm hmm um.
Speaker 1: I want to let's see, I want to hear some
Speaker 1: some Jeff, what's an iconic traditional archery hunt that like
Speaker 1: would epitomize why you love traditional archery? Like if you'd
Speaker 1: ask me that, I think I would have an answer
Speaker 1: of of like the hunt. If that's a fair question,
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna ask you the same thing. That's dam
Speaker 1: hunts or or well no, no, just like in your
Speaker 1: like well in your career, like when you were the
Speaker 1: first time that you took this animal in this way,
Speaker 1: in this place that you were like, this is traditional
Speaker 1: archery hunting for me. This is what I this is
Speaker 1: why I do it. Like if you could describe it
Speaker 1: like that, I would put two animals in their black
Speaker 1: bear for sure be one. I think black bears are
Speaker 1: kind of custom made for the trap. I'm talking what
Speaker 1: about a specific hunt though? Was there a hunt that
Speaker 1: was like iconic for you? And I mean like a
Speaker 1: specific animal mm hmm. There's a lot of them. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: What what was the first animal you took with a
Speaker 1: trade bow? Uh? Black bear? Yeah, first animal, but probably
Speaker 1: my favorite. Well, black bears right there, and I haven't
Speaker 1: hunted them for a long time until this year, but
Speaker 1: it would be mule deer. I think mule deer. In
Speaker 1: order to I mean, everything has to come together on
Speaker 1: an open country spotting stock mule deer, there's no you know,
Speaker 1: you're not sitting in a tree stand, or you're not calling,
Speaker 1: or you're not doing whatever. Um. Yeah, there was one
Speaker 1: mule deer that I hunted for about eight days and
Speaker 1: he kept kicking me and making me look foolish, and
Speaker 1: finally I fooled him. But there's a lot and when
Speaker 1: you took that animal, you were like, this is why
Speaker 1: I do this? Yeah, but I mean it probably the bear,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean with with the self bow was
Speaker 1: pretty cool too, yeah, just south of here. And and
Speaker 1: actually when in hitting it and dying, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like these things are efficient, you know, satisfaction. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want me. You're used to the high speed bow
Speaker 1: and compound and then you switch over and these arrows
Speaker 1: are shooting a hundred and sixty per second versus at
Speaker 1: that time maybe two fifty or not even, but still
Speaker 1: there's a big difference. And so I didn't really think
Speaker 1: that you could kill something. You didn't think they were
Speaker 1: an efficient weapon. No, yeah, no, And and it was
Speaker 1: very that was a struggle for me when I first
Speaker 1: was for ten years piddling around with traditional archery, I
Speaker 1: didn't believe that they were an effective killing tool. And
Speaker 1: then now it's like, when I pick up that bow,
Speaker 1: I feel like I could take down any critter on
Speaker 1: the planet. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it was antelope, and
Speaker 1: it was on the prairie in Montana, and I was
Speaker 1: stalking anop before anybody was because most people thought you're
Speaker 1: honting antelope with a bow and arrow. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: I did. I can remember cutting out cardboard and painting
Speaker 1: it to look like an antelope before mel Dutton decoys,
Speaker 1: before any of that stuff, and we paint these things
Speaker 1: and of course the wind would just take him and
Speaker 1: fly him away, but but stocking antelope. And when it
Speaker 1: finally came together, um, you know, it was about a
Speaker 1: yard shot on a real nice buck and he was
Speaker 1: that and right then and there, I said, man, that
Speaker 1: that's what it's all about. Because it took hours to
Speaker 1: get on that buck and then you know, to get
Speaker 1: it to happen. It was really satisfying. Yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: it well, Yeah that was seventies. Yeah, you know for me, now,
Speaker 1: I had taken animals before this, But when if I
Speaker 1: look back my animals i've taken with traditional gear, which
Speaker 1: is not near as many as you guys have. But
Speaker 1: the bear over the water hole on public land in Arkansas,
Speaker 1: because I never thought that that would be a an
Speaker 1: animal that I would take on public land spotting stock
Speaker 1: on the ground with a tread bow. I mean, i'd
Speaker 1: never purposefully I didn't try to make that hunt happen
Speaker 1: just because it was just too hard. And uh, that
Speaker 1: day it was kind of an accident that even had
Speaker 1: my boat. I was really just scouting and it was
Speaker 1: just you know, I was like, I might as well
Speaker 1: bring my boat, you never know, and ended up taking
Speaker 1: a bear found well. I knew where this water hole was,
Speaker 1: didn't anticipated having a lot of bears coming to it.
Speaker 1: Went to the water hole, you know, two hours up there,
Speaker 1: I found a ton of bear sign and just said, man,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna sit here until one comes sat down.
Speaker 1: Two hours later, bear walks up eight yards in the water,
Speaker 1: shoot it with a tread bow, and uh, I think
Speaker 1: avan said. I said, I'd rather kill that bear, and
Speaker 1: it was a soal. It wasn't a big one, just
Speaker 1: a average sal I said, I'd rather take that bear.
Speaker 1: And I'm more proud of that bear than a Kodiak
Speaker 1: brown bear because I did it in my home turf,
Speaker 1: in my where I wanted to do it the way
Speaker 1: I wanted to do it, or a way that I
Speaker 1: didn't expect to do it. And then, you know, so
Speaker 1: to me, it's like I could never kill another animal again,
Speaker 1: and I could hang that bow up and just be like, yep,
Speaker 1: that was a great video. Yeah, I'd really like that one.
Speaker 1: That was cool. You can tell you were excited. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it was kind of an accident. But then the
Speaker 1: next day went to the other state just down the
Speaker 1: road was able to do it again. What's that was cool?
Speaker 1: But um, Jeff, what questions do we need to ask
Speaker 1: Dave about? Uh? Now, you started a couple of traditional
Speaker 1: archery state associations. I mean, well myself and other people.
Speaker 1: But back in um nineteen eighty nine, I was stationed
Speaker 1: with the United States Border Patrol down in Florida and
Speaker 1: there wasn't an organization for traditional bullingers down there, and
Speaker 1: I got together with four or five guys and started
Speaker 1: Traditional bull Hundreds of Florida. And now it's huge, I
Speaker 1: mean like thousand members. Um, but that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: There wasn't one, I like six six of us that
Speaker 1: started that, and it's growing since nine to what it
Speaker 1: is today. And I was the first president of that,
Speaker 1: and uh Traditional bull Honers of Montana. I was started
Speaker 1: that with Dick Robertson and I think that was the
Speaker 1: nineteen well it must have been nineteen eighties something, eight
Speaker 1: seven or eight six, something like that. But and that's
Speaker 1: growing too also. I mean, you know, these things have
Speaker 1: just blossomed. So I mean anything is possible, and it's
Speaker 1: just a bunch of guys getting together, care about something
Speaker 1: and make it grow, right. And I didn't have much
Speaker 1: to do with the growth part, but at least we
Speaker 1: started it. You know, it was cool. Yeah, that's great. Um,
Speaker 1: tell me about one of your your bears in Alaska. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, and I don't know what people think
Speaker 1: about baiting, but in in Alaska you can hunt grizzlies
Speaker 1: with bait, and I originally started out. I can tell
Speaker 1: you what we think about it. We love it, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: But there are people like uh, well several up there,
Speaker 1: the old time boads and we all know what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. That fought at tooth and Nail and lone.
Speaker 1: Oh it was like bloody. They didn't want it to happen.
Speaker 1: Well it happened, and now everybody can hunt him that way.
Speaker 1: And then it's the fishing game was because they did
Speaker 1: it as a management tool. They needed to take out bears,
Speaker 1: and that they couldn't take him out of the ways, right,
Speaker 1: some big bores or dying you know, grizzlies, and uh,
Speaker 1: that's that's what's all about for them. Anyway, I placed
Speaker 1: this bait in a remote spot, not thinking about it
Speaker 1: being a good grizzly spot. And uh, I set it
Speaker 1: up and went up there the first night, and my
Speaker 1: tree stands are only like ten feet in the air,
Speaker 1: just because I didn't want my air or to come
Speaker 1: down and hit one long right, so I could, you know,
Speaker 1: give more a different angle. I wasn't worried about, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the black bears jumping in the tree stand
Speaker 1: with me. But I'm sitting there in the first night,
Speaker 1: and this this grizzly gave no indication that he was
Speaker 1: feeding there, you know, the crap or anything like that.
Speaker 1: A nice black bear came in. I passed him up
Speaker 1: and and he ate and did that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, I let him go. And
Speaker 1: five minutes later I see brown. I heard some twig
Speaker 1: straps snapping, and it's very thick, very very very thick.
Speaker 1: And I look and I see brown coming through the trees,
Speaker 1: and it said, all great, brown black bear, this gonna
Speaker 1: be cool, right, not a collar faces where I'm at.
Speaker 1: And he's coming in and coming in, and immediately I
Speaker 1: see his face come through the bush and I said,
Speaker 1: oh crap, it's grizzly. It's a big one and I'm only,
Speaker 1: like I say, ten feet in the tree. You were
Speaker 1: not trying to kill a grizzly, but you had a tag.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, we had a tag. But that's I
Speaker 1: can have a tag in Alaska. So so we uh
Speaker 1: where I was by myself. I didn't even have a gun,
Speaker 1: and uh, this bear comes in. He smelt that black
Speaker 1: bear and just an absolutely ape. He grabbed that barrel
Speaker 1: and threw it. Then he beat it up and jump
Speaker 1: on it. You know, I apply used plastic barrels up there,
Speaker 1: chained and so he crushed that. You think he was
Speaker 1: trying to make make noise to let other bears know
Speaker 1: that he was in there. I think so. And he
Speaker 1: was let everybody know. He I found that bears, if
Speaker 1: they want to be a hundred percent silent, they are
Speaker 1: and if they make noise, they're doing it on purpose
Speaker 1: to let other animals know. And he let everybody know.
Speaker 1: And I'll never forget he he bat that barrel around,
Speaker 1: hid it in the air, and just like Muhammad Ali
Speaker 1: boxing a bag. It was awesome because he was so
Speaker 1: fast and um and I'm away like ten yards away
Speaker 1: from the bait and ten ft in the air with
Speaker 1: no backup, no backup, And I'm figuring. Once he figures out,
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm dead right. Well, he did look at me.
Speaker 1: Have you ever been looked at by a grizzly? You
Speaker 1: know it because they're beating Lilizas And he didn't do
Speaker 1: anything about it, and he turned broadside and I just
Speaker 1: dumped him. He took one jump man one jump and died.
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. You know, they got this. He
Speaker 1: bears die easily if they're hit right, and this one
Speaker 1: I must have hit perfect because he just took a
Speaker 1: jump and died. He was twenty four in skull, so wow,
Speaker 1: what would he would he have squared? Probably seven? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's not a huge grizzly, but he's uh, it's it's
Speaker 1: a it's an interior grizzly. It's not a coastal brummer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the ultimate. I think. When I was with Jeff
Speaker 1: the first hunt I went with Jeff, my head probably
Speaker 1: the most opportune time had a big grizzly that anybody
Speaker 1: has ever had, you know, two shots at thirty five
Speaker 1: yards m kind of downhill, blew them both. Boy, I mean,
Speaker 1: this was This is not your average grizzly. This is
Speaker 1: a big, dark black grizzlies and just obviously a boar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously big and bad. Is that right in this area? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Up higher up in the alpine fall. It was in
Speaker 1: the berries. Yeah, there's a burn up there, so yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where where it was. I watched the whole thing. Wow,
Speaker 1: that would have been like ten years ago, yeah, nine maybe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like today. Yeah. Yeah, time flies. Mm hmm,
Speaker 1: big bear. That was. It's not the only grizzly I've missed,
Speaker 1: so but yeah, I've had good luck with grizzlies as
Speaker 1: far as getting in on him, and yeah, occ usually
Speaker 1: getting one, you know. Yeah, Jeff, what are you thinking
Speaker 1: of any stories about Dave that need to be told? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure he won't mind me telling this one. But
Speaker 1: Dave's got When Dave was born, his heart was on
Speaker 1: the right side of his chest and not his left side,
Speaker 1: So I don't know what that's called extra cardia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so he comes up and we're hunting mule deer
Speaker 1: and we go on the stock and this is a
Speaker 1: big deer. He's betted and he's I mean, he's in
Speaker 1: a perfect spot. So we crawl in there. I turned around.
Speaker 1: I looked at Dave, and Dave's lips are blue. We're
Speaker 1: thirty yards yards in this buck, Mike, dude, are you
Speaker 1: all right? What's going on? And so in that space
Speaker 1: of time, he tells me that he's got a pretty
Speaker 1: severe heart condition. Okay, that I'm gonna have to draw
Speaker 1: his bow and and not when he lands did and
Speaker 1: we're at the room, you know, when you usually did,
Speaker 1: and some I'm staring. I'm going you're telling me this now,
Speaker 1: you know? And and so and we got the bow drawn,
Speaker 1: and I stood the buck up, and then the buck
Speaker 1: ran and never got hit. So yeah, he uh, he
Speaker 1: could be sitting here and and and having whatever, he
Speaker 1: could be on the verge of death. But he's never
Speaker 1: gonna let you know that ever. So, yeah, he's the
Speaker 1: most optimistic guy I met. And uh, yeah, we've had
Speaker 1: a yeah, we've had a lot of cool oh yeah
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. So just the other night when you got
Speaker 1: your bear was awful cool. Yeah, I was glad you're here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you want to talk about that? Yeah. Yeah. We
Speaker 1: had a couple a couple hundreds kill out on early
Speaker 1: and so that opened it up for for me to
Speaker 1: be able to towed around and look around, so we'd go.
Speaker 1: You know, we went to his zone that's quite a
Speaker 1: ways from here, kind of stayed away from from obviously
Speaker 1: from my area. And we've been seeing a few bears,
Speaker 1: not a lot, but some big ones and uh, mostly
Speaker 1: just to go hang out with this guy. You know.
Speaker 1: I saw wolves and grizzlies and Mr Wolf anyway, Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: just the way it worked, it was just happened fast.
Speaker 1: Saw him, went up on him. I didn't know if
Speaker 1: he was I thought he was a good boar, but
Speaker 1: the way I mean he kind of when he saw me,
Speaker 1: he just stood up, put his paws up against the
Speaker 1: tree and just looked at me. And I kind of hesitated,
Speaker 1: you know, because i'd like to. I've shot quite a
Speaker 1: few and I wanted to, and I haven't hunted one
Speaker 1: in eight years. So you're you're after bear, You're after
Speaker 1: a big one, I'd like. Yeah, I see a lot
Speaker 1: of these things get shot every year. It's not about
Speaker 1: the meat, because my freezer is full of bear meat
Speaker 1: and moose meat. But you guys really enjoy I love it.
Speaker 1: More guys are taking it home now though, But uh yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's not ever a meat and whenever I go hunting,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not for meat because it's an outfitter. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: my freezer is full of meat. You know, people don't
Speaker 1: when you fly up here and shoot a moose, you're
Speaker 1: not flying home with six hundred pounds of meat or
Speaker 1: whatever four pounds of meat. So yeah, so just looking
Speaker 1: for that specific bear that would like to to have
Speaker 1: for maybe a life size or something in the in
Speaker 1: camp here. But and we saw one that was pretty
Speaker 1: legit huge the night before. You know, I got the
Speaker 1: eighteen yards on him, but it was raining that night
Speaker 1: and it was got darker earlier, and I couldn't really
Speaker 1: tell where his I mean, yeah, kind of how he
Speaker 1: was positioned. He was broadside of all I had was
Speaker 1: a spine in his backstrap. He's over the edge and
Speaker 1: then I realized that he's staring at me and then
Speaker 1: he bolted. So anyway, this particular bear he stood, and
Speaker 1: which is perfect. You know, he stood because you kind
Speaker 1: of startled him. He saw you jumped up on the
Speaker 1: side of it. I was there the whole time. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the thing with these guys, they they're not really
Speaker 1: you get some the bolt that you know, if they
Speaker 1: get your wind, it's over. But they're there. They're pretty
Speaker 1: cocky there, you know. Um, and he he was cocky
Speaker 1: and just stared at me. And then I made the
Speaker 1: shot and I was a little bit, a little bit back.
Speaker 1: I was through the liver and then it was a
Speaker 1: complete kind of a gong show. After that, he went
Speaker 1: up a little bit and shot a few times. Yes,
Speaker 1: I did, and then he Uh, I figured he was
Speaker 1: dead or was gonna die real quickly and what he did.
Speaker 1: But just the situation with getting him out of there,
Speaker 1: you know, having Dave Dave, I didn't want him to
Speaker 1: go in there with his his condition and and you know,
Speaker 1: so just thought we'll leave him because I didn't see
Speaker 1: him die, and I didn't hear him. But you got
Speaker 1: two good arrows. And to clarify, you've got two good
Speaker 1: arrows and the bear. The first arrow was a killing arrow.
Speaker 1: But I just, yeah, it's good to hear him die
Speaker 1: or see him die. And uh, and made the decision
Speaker 1: to back out and going in the morning. And uh
Speaker 1: we went back in the next morning. Um, he had
Speaker 1: we found in test nines that were pulled out, and
Speaker 1: then we found the gut file and no bear. So Immediately,
Speaker 1: my guides and I were like, is you know something, Yeah,
Speaker 1: something's not right. And Gary went over and checked out
Speaker 1: the snow bank and there's a bunch of wolf tracks
Speaker 1: and basically those wolves annihilated him, but yet kind of
Speaker 1: kept the hide and tag. I mean their precision, they
Speaker 1: everything up to the neck. What it was like, it
Speaker 1: was like they opened up the cape from the hind
Speaker 1: quarters and then it's almost like they they ate underneath
Speaker 1: the all the way up to the skull. So looking
Speaker 1: at the bear, now, you were able to keep some
Speaker 1: of the front shoulders and stuff, well just forearms is
Speaker 1: the only thing I was able to keep off that thing.
Speaker 1: That's the only meat that was available, which is also buco, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that's I love the form so um. And
Speaker 1: the head was fine and and yeah, it was just
Speaker 1: the first time that's ever never seen it. In probably
Speaker 1: three bears i've been in on, I've never seen that
Speaker 1: particular thing happened. We've never had a grizzly on one.
Speaker 1: We've we've had black bears, other dominant bore black bears
Speaker 1: consume yeah, well at least one that I know of,
Speaker 1: But otherwise they're pretty much left alone, you know, they're
Speaker 1: pretty much left alone. And uh, so, yeah, that was
Speaker 1: kind of a I was an eye opener. It was
Speaker 1: satisfying for me because I got to see him get hammered. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jeff get hammered. He was excited. Yeah, And I'd like
Speaker 1: to see that in anybody, but I haven't seen it
Speaker 1: from him because he's so busy trying to get everybody
Speaker 1: else something. Yeah, right, and you know he gets happy
Speaker 1: about it, but this was intense for him. And uh
Speaker 1: and that's what bowl winning does to us, right, yes,
Speaker 1: And it was fun watching that in him. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: so y'all were the way we're hunting sometimes and the
Speaker 1: way you were specifically hunting. We had Dave, we the
Speaker 1: two of you together. You were cruising some of these
Speaker 1: back roads. Bears are feeding in the ditches. He saw
Speaker 1: the spare from the vehicle, jumped out, made a stock
Speaker 1: on him and uh and so Dave, you were able
Speaker 1: to pretty much see everything. You can see everything right
Speaker 1: from that. That's pretty cool. I didn't have to get
Speaker 1: out because a matter of fact, why would I get out,
Speaker 1: because I'd make more noise right right? It makes noise anyway, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: we found that out this week. Machine beeping hasn't gone
Speaker 1: off yet. We've been lucky. Yeah, man, So no, it's
Speaker 1: been nice to have you know, I usually you just
Speaker 1: it's a tough thing to do, you know, even if
Speaker 1: you're in another zone and in far away. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: we got a good group of you know folks in camp,
Speaker 1: so I wasn't too worried about Yeah, this, I want
Speaker 1: to say it's a unique, super unique situation and that
Speaker 1: the guys in camp are are friends and we've all
Speaker 1: got you know, we've been hunting with Gary and and
Speaker 1: Ryan's been taken out Cody. I mean like, yeah, so
Speaker 1: we were all pumped to see you get to go hunt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we Yeah, we had a good time. I mean
Speaker 1: just sit there and talk. And because honestly after you know,
Speaker 1: Dave had major major heart surgeries six months ago whatever
Speaker 1: that like almost a replacement, like heart replacement, right, well
Speaker 1: half of the hearts. Yeah, pump tacanium. Now, so did
Speaker 1: to make you better? Probably make you a better tread
Speaker 1: bow shooter? Quite a stud no, yeah, no, better looking,
Speaker 1: that's the things. But so no, it was fun. It
Speaker 1: was fun to be able to go out with him,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we've had some he's seen me go through
Speaker 1: some stuff in life and vice versas. So it was
Speaker 1: just cool to be able to go out and you know,
Speaker 1: killing the bear it was it was bonus, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1: And then things were pretty intense. You know, two, understand
Speaker 1: the context of this situation when you're when you're trailing
Speaker 1: a wounded animal, it's been left overnight, and you see
Speaker 1: a gut pile and nowear automatically you know that animals
Speaker 1: has been something has preyed upon it. And your first
Speaker 1: thought was Gris because I mean, this is Gurrias country.
Speaker 1: Four of them this week. We saw four within two
Speaker 1: miles of that bear, and so you're in a real
Speaker 1: serious you're in a precarious situation at that point if
Speaker 1: it is a griz because he's gonna be guarden. He's killed.
Speaker 1: And that's and that's where you were like one of
Speaker 1: your one of your guides, I won't say his nickname,
Speaker 1: um had the gun and you said, getting a gun. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes you can get kind of careless, think you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, You can get careless and that that'll
Speaker 1: kill you. So mostly now with the Grizzlies being shut
Speaker 1: down in BC, um it's gonna become more and more
Speaker 1: of a issue with confrontations, human and animal confrontations. I
Speaker 1: think you're gonna see him go up or you will
Speaker 1: see him go up. Yeah, a lot of them. Well,
Speaker 1: the guys last night saw a big, beautiful grizz out
Speaker 1: in a spot that we've been hunting several times that
Speaker 1: I've hunted this week several times. We didn't see a
Speaker 1: gris there, but yeah there, ever we've seen him. We've
Speaker 1: seen well two adults, uh, and both of them were
Speaker 1: Stalds with cubs, So multiple, multiple grizzlies. Saw a couple
Speaker 1: of big tracks yesterday, I mean fresh tracks. Um, they're
Speaker 1: around man, big time, Yeah, big time. So yeah, we
Speaker 1: uh need to Yeah, you just always need to be
Speaker 1: diligent with with paying attention to what's around you. I
Speaker 1: think hunting in in an area where grizzlies makes you
Speaker 1: better hunter. You know it does, because you're paying more
Speaker 1: attention to what's around and it adds something to the
Speaker 1: hunt too. I mean, grizzly is what the North Americans
Speaker 1: premier predator, right, I mean, it makes it feel like
Speaker 1: you're in the wild. I mean they's just so cool,
Speaker 1: you know. They added dimension to any hunt, even if
Speaker 1: you're not hunting them. And even if you don't see him.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what a big predator does, is his
Speaker 1: shadow is always there. It's always in the back of
Speaker 1: your mind. And that that really adds a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does, which is a lot of reason why you're
Speaker 1: black bear that you're stocking every day or is aware
Speaker 1: as they are. I noticed that this year more so
Speaker 1: than any other year. Um, like seeing us from two
Speaker 1: yards away and it's like, you know, in bolting. I
Speaker 1: mean that's you know, there's years. Oh you can yeah,
Speaker 1: they you can walk right up to him. And you know,
Speaker 1: wind has been an issue always is though in the
Speaker 1: mountains of b C. When you better make your move,
Speaker 1: and you better make it fast, you know, if you can.
Speaker 1: And uh, a lot of people have a hard time
Speaker 1: doing that, you know, they they think they got to
Speaker 1: go into super stealth mode. Mostly stick guys. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: gotta run, yeah, as quietly as you can. Yeah. Well, guys,
Speaker 1: we've been talking for about fifty two minutes. Um, it's
Speaker 1: uh closing thoughts here, Dave, what what would you what
Speaker 1: would you say to uh? I don't know what would
Speaker 1: you say to a young traditional archer getting into it?
Speaker 1: I would just say, hey, love it, love it for
Speaker 1: what it is, play it out and just live it
Speaker 1: because it's it's a wonderful, wonderful way to shoot a
Speaker 1: born arrow. And uh yeah, man, just live it and
Speaker 1: enjoy every every minute you have with it, because it's
Speaker 1: not always going to hang around, right, So I'd say,
Speaker 1: live it, love it. It's good. Jeff, I would say,
Speaker 1: don't compare your you know, if you're getting in starting
Speaker 1: in a traditional archery, I wouldn't, don't compare yourself to
Speaker 1: what you're seeing on YouTube or what you're seeing on
Speaker 1: the internet social media, because you're not you know, you're all.
Speaker 1: All you're seeing on on online is success if it's
Speaker 1: stacking up animals, and success is what your goal is.
Speaker 1: And probably don't shoot a tread bow. But if you
Speaker 1: like being out there with something simple, I mean, you
Speaker 1: can kill a lot of stuff, whether you you know,
Speaker 1: it takes time, it's not overnight, mostly with instinctive shooting.
Speaker 1: However you decide to shoot, but enjoy it and don't
Speaker 1: don't put the pressure on yourself that you have to
Speaker 1: meet up to somebody who's shooting lots of stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: you remember, um that article of Jane went over wrote
Speaker 1: and PBS it's called instant bull hunter. Look it up sometime.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the perfect perfect way to write about um,
Speaker 1: instant bull hunting. People that want to be instantly successful.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, you gotta read that something's wrong. It's the
Speaker 1: wrong thing. Yeah yeah, traditional stuff. But yeah yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think that goes back to the motivations of why,
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't get into traditional bull hunting because
Speaker 1: you want to kill more stuff. That's for dangsher. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's self imposed limitation. You've chosen. You've got this whole
Speaker 1: wide world of North American honey in front of you,
Speaker 1: or whatever opportunity you have, whether it's white tails in
Speaker 1: your backyard or whether it's you're in BC and can
Speaker 1: hunt all these critters or in Alaska, and you you
Speaker 1: choose how you want to craft your hunting space, you know.
Speaker 1: And so you're like, you know what, I've done this,
Speaker 1: I've done this. I want to choose this limitation and
Speaker 1: let that be my weapon and become a traditional archer.
Speaker 1: And uh, it changes you, and it it uh And
Speaker 1: and what I've always said, I think already said it today,
Speaker 1: is that in a world when in office in authenticity.
Speaker 1: It's prevalent. I mean, you know when you can take
Speaker 1: a single photograph, one second capture of your life and
Speaker 1: edit it and doll it up, and I'm speaking metaphorically
Speaker 1: but also literally put it on to social media and
Speaker 1: that becomes your brand. Like basically, you can forge. You
Speaker 1: can forge an image that's not real. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying everybody does that. I have an Instagram account,
Speaker 1: I have Facebook. I mean, like, I'm doing this kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, but in a world that is full of inauthenticity,
Speaker 1: and people perceive that you can't fake being a traditional archer,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. In in closing, I think
Speaker 1: and in the trade guys that are here and there's
Speaker 1: a few of us, there's nothing you will never your
Speaker 1: life will be changed when you kill your first animal
Speaker 1: with with a stick, because you'll go this can happen.
Speaker 1: And I believe that that when that happens, and something
Speaker 1: for some people took me a few years before I did.
Speaker 1: But when that happens, I don't know that you ever
Speaker 1: go back because that challenge is so satisfying. It's gratifying
Speaker 1: to see what you did. And then yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think anyway. Jake would probably agree with me, and Dave
Speaker 1: and you, I don't know. But for me it was
Speaker 1: because I had shoulder problems big time. I gotta get surgery.
Speaker 1: I had a compound brought up to me last year,
Speaker 1: a new hoit that I shot ten arrows through, and
Speaker 1: I have zero. I like compound guys. I want them
Speaker 1: in my camp because they're efficient and effective and uh
Speaker 1: but yeah, it just felt so weird to me. In fact,
Speaker 1: I couldn't even shoot it really well. I'm so used
Speaker 1: to coming and going and I couldn't sit there and
Speaker 1: holder I didn't know what what a bubble was like
Speaker 1: for leveling. It was just so I mean, I would
Speaker 1: do it. Took me a lot long time to be
Speaker 1: proficient with that, which is crazy. So they're skilling both.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, it's good right on. Well, thanks guys,
Speaker 1: it's been a pleasure to share camp with both of you,
Speaker 1: for real, it has I'm just quite sure. Thanks for
Speaker 1: coming up, but it's your last day. So yeah, we
Speaker 1: gotta go kill a bear, and we gotta we gotta
Speaker 1: go get one. Keep the wild places wild because that's
Speaker 1: where the bears live.