1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: Paul Mission controlled decond Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: want you to know. After taking a very long hiatus 10 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: from this realm of topics, we are returning to the 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: world of the Nazis. The Nazi Party of Germany and 12 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: World War Two has become a source of many, many 13 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: proposed conspiracies and proven conspiracies as as we learn more 14 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: and more about the inner workings of of that regime. 15 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: And nowadays you know, we can we can say with 16 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: certitude certain statements that would have once been considered controversial 17 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: or conspiratorial, like now we can say it is common 18 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: knowledge that many Nazi officials and Nazi collaborators escaped to 19 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: South America in the aftermath of World War Two. It's 20 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: a genuine, vast conspiracy. You hear them called ratlines right, 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: thousands of people fled from Europe to Brazil, Chile, especially Argentina, 22 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: and as the world was trying to recover from the 23 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: atrocities of war, there were these investigators from places like 24 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: West Germany and Israel, and individuals who were tracking down Nazis, 25 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: sifting through rumors, trying to hunt these men who would 26 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: be ghost as. You want to learn more about that, 27 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: check out Operation Adessa, I think is the episode we 28 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: did on that topic. Specifically, we have a lot of 29 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: we have a lot of Nazi episodes because they did 30 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: a lot of terrible things. But the weird, weirdest part 31 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: here is when we're talking about the Nazis escaping to 32 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: South America. We're talking about a true thing, a real 33 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: event that went on for years, but we're also talking 34 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: about all the rumors that built off that, like the 35 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 1: idea that Adolf Hitler himself may have escaped. That's a 36 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: story for another day, but today's episode is when people 37 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: might not have heard of. It. Concerns the infamous Nazi doctor, 38 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: the so called Angel of Death, Joseph Mangel, and the 39 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory that he continued his horrific experiments long after 40 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: the end of World War two today's episode, fellow conspiracy realist, 41 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: What is Candido good Oi and what the hell is 42 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: happening there? Yes, here are the facts. It's a city 43 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: you probably haven't heard of unless you've heard of this 44 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: story or unless you have visited a specific part of Brazil. 45 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: Rio Grande do sul So. Candido Goody is a city 46 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: in Rio grand do soul Brazil. Um. It's a pretty 47 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: small place, populations somewhere between six thousand and only seven thousand, uh. 48 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: And you can find its close to the Argentine border. Um. 49 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: And there you'll find a small settlement in the city 50 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: called Lena sal Pedro. And that population is even smaller, 51 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: with just a few hundred people there. Um. It was 52 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: founded by an original population of only eight families back 53 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighteen. In their defense, these are big families. Yes, 54 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: that's right, that's right. And uh, if you don't mind, Ben, 55 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: I'd like to pull in a quote here. There's a 56 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: video that the BBC put out in UH that I 57 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: won't tell you the name of right now, but there's 58 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: a quote from an historian we're going to meet later 59 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: more in depth in this episode. But you're just according 60 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: to him, he says, there are like a slightly higher 61 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: number there, I think fifteen to twenty families, but again 62 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: it's like the original eight families to you know, maybe 63 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: up to twenty. Essentially just putting that out there as 64 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: like we're pretty we're pretty sure it was a very 65 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: few number of actual families that founded this place, right, 66 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: and then later later immigrants would come. But something unusual 67 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: was happening because although Candido Goodoy was colonized by the 68 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: Spanish forces, the area now is primarily inhabited by descendants 69 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: a little bit from Poland, but primarily German immigrants. And 70 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: what's more, these immigrants mostly originate from a single region 71 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: of Germany, a place called Hunsruck, which is also known 72 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: for a weird tendency amongst amongst its population. So if 73 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: you go to Lenha sal Pedro, uh, you'll immediately notice 74 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: some odd things. First, people aren't speaking Portuguese as often 75 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: as you would think. They tend to speak a German dialect. Secondly, 76 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: you're gonna see a lot of people who look alike 77 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: because there are a ton of twins in lin haa 78 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: sal Pedro, a a lot quite a few. Uh. It 79 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: is noticeable when you walk through town, and for years 80 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: scientists have struggled and failed to discover why as many 81 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: as one in five pregnancies in this area results in twins, 82 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: most of them, according to the legends, being blonde haired 83 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: and blue eyed. Very curious, Um, so why how many 84 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: are we talking? Um? The birth rate stats for twins 85 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: in Candido is ten percent, which is significantly higher than 86 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: in the rest of the state, where it's only about 87 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: one point eight percent UM. So this is one of 88 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: the highest what you'd call twinning rates in the entire world. 89 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: And this is a noteworthy pattern, um, at least during 90 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century, when the first immigrants started to 91 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: set a precedent arriving um with seventeen sets of twins, um, 92 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: you know amongst them. Uh. And if you visit the 93 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: area today, you might still notice that it is, like 94 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: you said, Ben, like instantly, something that's remarkable. How many, 95 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: just how many sets of twins you'll see just on 96 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: a given day looking around. Well, you think about that, 97 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: that's one in ten kids that are born are kids 98 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: instead of kid. Yeah, that's crazy. And the stats can 99 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: you know, you'll as suite listeners, of course you clocked 100 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: that that rate of twins was given as ten percent, 101 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: but then scientists also projected one in five pregnancies. We're 102 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: we're aware of this discrepancy. It's coming from a couple 103 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: of different sources. And of course birth rates do change 104 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: or they vary over time. But yeah, yeah, it's a 105 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: lot of twins. Yeah, that ten percent, I believe in 106 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: a particular study we looked at was between nine. Well 107 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: we're also talking about ten percent of a very small population, 108 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: which makes it extra noticeable when you walk in. It's like, wow, 109 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: they're everywhere, and you know, we know, um what a mystery. 110 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: Twins still continue to be as to what leads to them, 111 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: as to like their ability to communicate differently, you know, 112 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean there are there's something that you know, if 113 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: you if you know anybody who has a twin sibling 114 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: they claim to and you know, I mean honestly, you 115 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: can't not believe them have this uh kind of almost 116 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: telekinetic ability or this ability to kind of like feel 117 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,559 Speaker 1: things about each other from far distances for example, um, 118 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: or you know, to be able to almost like speak 119 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: without speaking to each other. It's very very interesting and 120 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: not a lot of note about that, uh, and that 121 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: totally applies to this case only this is an extra 122 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: weird kind of twist, like why so many twins in 123 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: this small area? And one of the theories is quite disturbing. Yeah, 124 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: and I have I I do just spoiler alert have 125 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: what I feel like is the explanation here. But let's 126 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: let's let's walk through the crazy stuff. I want to 127 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: step back because there was something I wanted to point out. So, yeah, 128 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: this is extraordinary because of the birth rates in the 129 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: number of twins relative to the population. But for comparison, 130 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: there are places that have, you know, in absolute numbers, 131 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: much higher tendencies towards the production of twins, and Nigeria 132 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: actually leads the world in this regard. Also, I always, 133 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: I always thought it would be cool to have a twin, 134 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: but I think for most of us the concept is 135 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: incredibly alien. And that's why singles, right, even if you 136 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: have siblings, you're a single, right in comparison to twins. 137 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: That's why singles, like the majority of us in the 138 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: audience today, are always fascinated by this and then the 139 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: rumors of this connection, this idea of clara voyance, this 140 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: idea of unspoken communication. We're not the only people fascinated 141 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: by this. Mangolia was also fascinated by the idea of twins, 142 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: and over the past few decades, various scientists, scholars, and 143 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: historians have attempted to figure out just what causes this place, 144 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: this tiny spot in in Brazil to produce so many twins. 145 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: Locals have guests about this too, because you know, they're 146 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: the ones directly affected, so they might say that they 147 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: have a couple of different theories. Uh. One of the 148 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: most interesting I think is is almost a horror movie trope. 149 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: Is something in the water, yeah, or or it's you know, 150 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: a blessing in a weird way, it's a curse or 151 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: a blessing, depending on how you look at it, if 152 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: it were true, right, and just the concept that there's 153 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: minerals or something about the pH or some specific thing 154 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: about the rock formations where the water you know, the 155 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: tributaries are and everything where specifically gets to that one area. Um, 156 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: there are a few, right, yes, exactly, you know, and 157 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: and that's like we said, lore that that was a 158 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: you know, a legend essentially, and that there are a 159 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: few others that you know, maybe specific groups of locals 160 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: had or rumors, but most of it had to do with. Honestly, 161 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: the most prominent one I saw there was water or 162 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: the one we're about to mention, right, there is another 163 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: theory and it's one that uh, it's one that's led 164 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: people around the world on a very strange exploration down 165 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: a very odd rabbit hole. One of the most disturbing 166 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: theories to explain the twins of Candido Godoy is the 167 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: idea that the infamous Nazi Joseph Mangles, the Angel of 168 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: Death never really stopped his experiments. He just moved shop 169 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: from Germany to Brazil. We're gonna pause for a word 170 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: from our sponsor and then we'll dive into this story ourselves. 171 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy, the connection when we say 172 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about this Angel of Death. First off, we 173 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: have to learn a little bit more about who he 174 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: is and what his what his weird deal with human 175 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: experimentation and twins actually was. Yeah, I mean there's accounts 176 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: I've read. You know, he was the notorious um presence 177 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: at the offloading sites where you know, these undesirable races 178 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 1: like the Jewish race, Um, the Roman people and LGBTQ population, 179 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: for example, were a rounded up in these cattle cars 180 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: on the rail lines and then unloaded at these concentration camps, 181 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: and he would kind of lurk around these places, you know, 182 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: with his associates. And um, I read an account of 183 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: of of a family mother and to twin daughters, and 184 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: they heard, you know, one of the Naziss officers say 185 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: twins and and and she looks at the mother and 186 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: says twins, and she goes yes, is that good? And 187 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: he goes yes, and then takes them away and they 188 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: never see their mother again. Um. And that's common because 189 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: he was there like kind of trolling for twins, because 190 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: that was a big part of something he was fascinated with. 191 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: He thought was what it would add to the efficacy 192 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: of the bizarre experiments that he was doing that included 193 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:04,599 Speaker 1: everything from disfigurement, artificial insemination. Um, what out spin? I 194 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: mean it's you know, maiming, just literally like trying to 195 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: see how the human body would react to the most horrible, 196 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: despicable conditions. Yeah, I would just say likely. That comes 197 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: from the account of Ava Moses core who who told 198 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: her entire story in a series of writing and writings 199 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: and documentaries, and she says that specifically the the twins 200 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: were all taken and placed in a separate barracks away 201 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: from everybody else, and they were separated by what Manglai 202 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: considered their gender at the time, girls and boys. And 203 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: they had a very rigid schedule that they kept too. 204 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: According to Ava, on Monday's, Wednesdays and Fridays, they would 205 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: have to all walk over to a building that was 206 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: called Auschwitz one, and there Mingla and other doctors and 207 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: others just working for them would measure them essentially, run 208 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: run diagnostic tests on their bodies, and do comparisons between 209 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: the two twins. Then on Tuesday's, Thursdays and Saturdays, that's 210 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: when a lot of the experimentation would happen. Uh that 211 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: they called it the blood lab, or have at least 212 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: called it the blood lab. And there would be she said, 213 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: around thirty children in this one area. They would all 214 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: sit in chairs and if they would have their arms 215 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: strapped down and in one of their arms they would 216 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: have blood taken out for testing, and the other arm 217 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: they would have injections where who knows what's being put 218 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: into them, but they would get injections. A lot of 219 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: that has lost to history. Actually, the efficacy, I would 220 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: I think the important point we need to make here 221 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: is the distinction. This comes up when we talk about 222 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: uh Nazi war crimes as well as Unit thirty one 223 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: in Japan. There is a distinction here that needs to 224 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: be made between what would be considered human experimentation and 225 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: what would be considered torture. Uh. The methodology of a 226 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: lot of these so called scientists was unsound because their 227 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: aim was it had the patina of scientific rigor. But 228 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: these are war crimes, and a lot of the a 229 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: lot of the science that was derived from those activities 230 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: turns out not to be good, not not to be 231 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: super worthwhile. Uh. Yeah. For mainly the thing is that 232 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: people know about the twins. But while he, like many people, 233 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: was fascinated by twins, Uh, first off, he's a very 234 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: very bad person. He is in direct violation of things 235 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: like the hippocratic gowth do no harm right. He was 236 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: literally one of the people who would select folks to 237 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: go straight to the gas chambers or to be worked 238 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: to death or subjected to experiments. And all of his 239 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: under leans and all of his collaborators have been given 240 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: special instructions not just to find twins, but to find 241 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: to find people who were dwarves. Or little people, to 242 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: find people who are extraordinarily large or tall, anyone with 243 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: a unique what we would recognize as a hereditary trait 244 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: like hetero chromia, eyes of a slightly different color, or 245 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: a club foot, or even polydactyl people if those turned 246 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: up and extra fingers, we mean more than the usual 247 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: five per hand. Uh. And the reason when he had 248 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: these twins, the horrific things that he was doing to 249 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: them while right while the rest of their family is 250 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: also being tortured and put to death. Here Uh, these 251 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: these horrific things can the scope of them can be 252 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: found just in the following statistic. They pulled about three 253 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: thousand twins right over the course of May Galaize time 254 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: in Germany when he was in Auschwitz, and most of 255 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: those twins were children. Of those three thousand, only two 256 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: hundred survived, and and really in a very real way 257 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: against all lots. So this this guy, let me give 258 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: you his rationalization, I was doing this. So he was 259 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: doing this not just not just because he's a horrible person, 260 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: but also because Adolph Hitler had given him instructions to 261 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: figure out ways to increase the population of what he 262 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: considered to be the master race. A k a. The 263 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: Arians and Mangalais was researching twins because the logic here, 264 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: if logic existed, was the idea that if we can 265 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: figure out what creates twins, then we can go to 266 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: the people we want to reproduce and we can do 267 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: something to them. We can affect their biology such that 268 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: every birth they have will result in twins or heck, 269 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: you know triplets. Who knows though they were twin focused right, 270 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: and that if we can do that, we will essentially 271 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: be doubling our birth rate. That was their logic. It's 272 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: a two for one deal. I mean really, it is 273 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: just absolutely that Nazi efficiency that everything needs to kind 274 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: of serve a purpose and you don't have any waste 275 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: or whatever. And the thing that's most terrific to me 276 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: as well about these uh, you're absolutely right then, I 277 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: mean absolutely unsound science. And you really could just classify 278 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: his torturing is he would use one twin as like 279 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: the experiment subject and then use the other one as 280 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: a control. And if my understanding is correct, they would 281 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: often be made to watch each other be tortured. Yeah, 282 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: that's a that's horrifying. I I I want to bring 283 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: up something and this is a complete speculation on my part, guys, 284 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: but I just want to ask you what you think 285 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: about this. It is known that in the upper echelons 286 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: of the Nazi par there was a belief there's a 287 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: lot of magical thinking, and there there were some odd 288 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: beliefs there that I think may have also led to 289 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: a further fascination with twins, as in a possible connection 290 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: beyond the physical, if that makes sense. And I do. 291 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: I do wonder if anything, if any beliefs they're led 292 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: to this fascination as well, because you know, you'll notice 293 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: we're not talking about them experimenting on the mothers, the 294 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: people who birthed twins, right, We're not talking about a 295 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: focus on the fathers who who you know, created twins. 296 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: It's it's on the twins themselves. And I just I 297 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: just wonder, and again this is me just thinking aloud. 298 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: I wonder if there was something more to that fascination. Well, 299 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot of folklore in in Germany surrounding twins, 300 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: like the Alsies, which were a pair of twin brother 301 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: odds that were warships by Germanic people's and and survives 302 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,479 Speaker 1: and and we know at a time and again, this 303 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: is just a line of we're just freestyling the speculation here, 304 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: but we know that we know that there was a 305 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: movement in the party to generate a new kind of religion, 306 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: right or to you know, replace the concept of Christianity 307 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: that was popular. So there there could be some symbolism 308 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: motivating people in that way. But long story short, before 309 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: you spent too much time in Manley in Germany. UH. 310 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: Spoiler alert, and this is a good spoiler. UH. Nazi 311 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: Germany lost World War two for a number of reasons. 312 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: If you haven't caught up with that one. Yes, that 313 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: Nazi Germany lost World War two, and the people in 314 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: power found themselves desperate to escape justice uh, and to 315 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: escape the various forces that wanted to hold to account 316 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: for their crimes. So the war draws to a closed 317 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: Germany is falling. Mangelad travels to South America nineteen forty nine. 318 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: In July, he sails to Argentina, and he has the 319 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: help of the rat Line. Rat Line and network of 320 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: other former SS members and Nazi sympathizers, many of whom 321 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: were associated with the Church. They were getting these people 322 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: new identities, they were giving them supplies from you know, 323 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: all the all the stuff they stole during World War 324 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: two was providing funding for these folks, and so for 325 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: about a decade, the Angel of Death is living in 326 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: and around Buenos Aires, just under an assumed name, and 327 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: the heat hasn't caught up to him. But when he 328 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: starts to feel something shift in the wind, he flees 329 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: first to Paraguay and then to Brazil. And when he 330 00:21:54,359 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: reaches Brazil, it's nineteen sixty. If you're interested in a 331 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: remarkably historically inaccurate but relatively interesting show to watch around 332 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: this type of stuff, there's a show called Hunters starring 333 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: Al Pacino, where it's like this very fictionalized almost like 334 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: ragtag band of like sort of you know, uh an 335 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: a team kind of situation where it's these Nazi hunters 336 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: they're looking for, you know, war criminal Nazis, and there 337 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: are things in it that are based on reality, but 338 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: there it's absolutely overblown and embellished in Hollywood eyes. I 339 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: believe Ben coined that last episode. Um, but it's it's 340 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: worth a watch. It's it's not great, but it's it's interesting, 341 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: much like the is it the Arrogant Bastards, which it's 342 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,239 Speaker 1: very quick, it's Quentin Tarantino style. I would say I 343 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: was surprised watching Hunters. I was surprised to learn that 344 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: he wasn't the one making it right. I was also 345 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: surprised with kind of how far they go down some 346 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: of the more uncomfortable territories of this type of thing. 347 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: UM almost made it a little unpleasant at times, it 348 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: being such a kind of schlocky, grandiose, uh, you know, 349 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: kind of revisionist history type show. But I leave it 350 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: to you to decide what you think of the show Hunters, 351 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: and let us know. And this is exactly what Mangola 352 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 1: was going through. Um. He was a wanted man. He 353 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: was on the lamb. He was being hunted by officials 354 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: from West Germany and Israel who were, you know, in 355 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: cooperation in this endeavor, and that included people like Simon Wisenthal. 356 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: All of these individuals wanted to bring him and those 357 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: like him to justice for his absolutely despicable war crimes. 358 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: Because let's make no mistake, that is what these were. 359 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,239 Speaker 1: He was holding people against their will and performing you know, 360 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: inhumane experiments on them. Um and and as you said, 361 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: been resulting in thousands and thousands of deaths. UM. But 362 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: Mangola was a smart guy. Um. You know, he knew 363 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: what he was doing in terms of you know, you know, 364 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: plotting his escape. Um, he had he had the right 365 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: idea in the nineteen help That's what I'm saying. He 366 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: worked with the right people exactly. And then there's there 367 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: was this network that was established, these rat lines, like 368 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: you said, Um, and many did get caught, but many escaped. 369 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: And sort of that almost trope you see in a 370 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: lot of fiction about like the you know, the Nazi 371 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: war criminal, you know, pretending to be a mild mannered 372 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: old man living next door to you in the suburbs. Um. 373 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: I believe that happens as well. In The Marathon Man, 374 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: the character that does the played by Lawrence Olivier who 375 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: does the you know, dental torture that's a you know, 376 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: an escape Nazi war criminal were it's supposed to be. Um, 377 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: who I believe is also called the Angel of Death 378 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken in the movie, it's not the 379 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: same Angel of Death, I don't believe, but that is 380 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: his nickname. UM. So he he assumes a false name, 381 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: Wolfgang Gerhard Uh and they don't find his true identity 382 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: until he dies by the way natural causes more or 383 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: less of a stroke. Uh in nineteen seventy nine, while 384 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: having a nice swim off the Brazilian coast and he drowns. Um. 385 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: But again, he's been masquerading as this wolf Wolfgang Gerhard 386 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: character and his true identity isn't determined when his remains 387 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: are exhumed and forced to be subject to forensic analysis. Yeah. Yeah, 388 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: so in a very real sense, he got away, and 389 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: they all they know is that there was a real 390 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: Wolfgang Gerhard. At some point that guy left the picture 391 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: and mangele it became him so well, and we know 392 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: that he had it. I think at least three names 393 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: or yeah, but but I know of three off the 394 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: top of my head. So he was definitely changing chameleon 395 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: ing movie. He was doing that out of necessity because 396 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: you don't, I mean, you do want to you do 397 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: want to have more than one. It's kind of like 398 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 1: doing a shell company, right, because each one will make 399 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 1: you more difficult to trace, but it also requires more 400 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: work on your part or for whomever's handling you. So 401 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: in in this situation, what probably happened is, uh, he 402 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: had to burn some of these personas because he was 403 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: on the run the entire time. It's that classic twist 404 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: in the movie when the nosy neighbor is snooping around 405 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: in the suspicious German Man's house when he's off, you know, 406 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: going to the grocery store and finds a drawer with 407 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: like six different passports and you know, all with different names, 408 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: and that's sort of like the aha moment um. But 409 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: that was real, and I'm sure he had, you know, 410 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: things like um uh valuables that he had smuggled out 411 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: as well that he was living on. You know, you 412 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: picture like like loose diamonds or something like that. Right. Yeah, 413 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: a lot of those guys were supported by things that 414 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: they had stolen from their victims during the course of 415 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 1: the war, or things they made off with from the 416 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: state as as the regime was collapsing. But here we are, 417 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: so let's foot aside fiction for a second. Real life 418 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine to nineteen seventy nine, under under various personas, 419 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: Joseph Mangla was in South America and multiple countries for 420 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: three decades. What the hell was he getting up to 421 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: down there? According to controversial claims by some historians, one 422 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: of whom will examine in depth, Manglais never stopped his 423 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: experiments with twins. Specifically. At this point, we introduced an 424 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: Argentine historian named Jorge Camerassa. Joge Camerasa is a specialist 425 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: in the post war Nazi flight to South America, and 426 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: he spent a lot of time tracy these individuals activities, 427 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: putting the pieces of the puzzle together right, hunting down 428 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: a person who didn't want to be fat, right, proving 429 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: the ghost was real. This war criminals life across this 430 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: continent is detailed by Camarasa in his book Manglais the 431 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: Angel of Death in South America. And in this book, 432 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: this guy made a tremendous splash when he said Manglais 433 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: did continue his experiments, specifically in Candido Goodoy and specifically 434 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: with twins. He is convinced that by the nineteen sixties 435 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: Manglais somehow cracked the code to creating twins, and he 436 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: used his knowledge to alter, permanently alter something about the 437 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 1: population of Candido. In his specific quote, he says, I 438 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: think Candido Goodoy may have been manglais laboratory where he 439 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: finally managed to fulfill his dreams of creating a master race. 440 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: A blonde haired, blue eyed arians. So the big question, 441 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: first question we have to have here is what is 442 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: this guy basing his claim on? And then secondly is 443 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: I hate I hate that we have to mention this. 444 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: What we do is he just trying to sell a book. 445 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: That's a question that comes up a lot with these 446 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: kinds of stories, and we're not casting and we're not 447 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: casting aspersion on him right now. It's just it's an 448 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: understandable question, and it's one that his critics, uh will 449 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: also mention, and we'll meet them in a few minutes. 450 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: But right now, the most interesting part about his claim 451 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: is that residents of Candido Goody appear to verify it. 452 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: They appear to they at least say that Mangala was there. Yeah, 453 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: they say that he visited numerous times in the nineteen 454 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: sixties and when he showed up, he was essentially a doctor, 455 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: but a veterinarian. So he would show up and he 456 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: would offer medical treatment, you know, for animals and for 457 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: women in the town. As this uh, you know, veterinarian 458 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: a bit strange, and you can you can see the 459 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: pieces kind of fitting together if you're hearing these as 460 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: anecdotes from people who live there. Right, Let's just imagine 461 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: you're the author and you're trying to research as much 462 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: as this as you can. And there are local legends 463 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: that this guy was definitely in town, and he, you know, 464 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: was this character when he was here. Um, you can imagine, 465 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: just as you said, Ben, that you believe at least 466 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: that your beliefs then are correct, or at least it 467 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: would assist in that. And there's one resident there. A 468 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: person's name is Olosi Oloisi perhaps Finkler. Uh. This person 469 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: is a farmer and and this is a quote about mangle. 470 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: He asked about illnesses we had among our animals and 471 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: told us not to worry. He could cure them. He 472 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: appeared a cultured and dignified man. Isn't that interesting that 473 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: that that I can cure I can cure this thing. 474 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: It reminds me of the cult discussion. You know, a 475 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: cow is not so different biologically from a woman, Right, 476 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: that's what that's the kind of reasoning, just to show 477 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: how creepy it is. Um. But didn't he have some 478 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: practical knowledge of livestock and he was doing some functional 479 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: good like they had t B And he gave them 480 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: some kind of vaccine like he just kind of like 481 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: helped them or was it all just wild you know, 482 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: medical quackery. Well, let's go to another quote from Leonardo Bouffler. 483 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: There's also a farmer in the area and says, yeah, Mentel, 484 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: it was visiting them under a guy under the guys 485 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: of being a veterinarian. Boofler says, quote, he went from 486 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: farm to farm, checking the animals. He checked them for 487 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: TV and injected those that were infected. He also said 488 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: he could carry out artificial insemination of cows and humans, 489 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: which we thought impossible, as in those days it was 490 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: unheard of. So even if we put aside the larger 491 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: theory that he was actively creating twins in this small environment, uh, 492 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: it's already very disturbing the way that this this dude 493 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: is infiltrating this community by posing as a useful, helpful 494 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: force a veterinarian, and then you leveraging that somehow to 495 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: gain access to the humans, to their bodies and and 496 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: too participate somehow in observing or influencing their reproductive process 497 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: the same way he would with livestock. That is messed up. Man. 498 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: If these accounts are true, Like if if these uh, 499 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: these folks actually identified you know, this person, this guy, 500 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: whoever his name was at the time as Manglais, and 501 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: Camerassa traces Manglais path and he claims that this guy, first, 502 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: like we said, went to Paraguay, to another German enclave 503 00:32:54,840 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: called Colonius Anitas, and then from there in nine he 504 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: started making regular trips, the historian says, to the German 505 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: community just over the border in Brazil Candido. Goodoy. But 506 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: if you look at if you look at research, because 507 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people have been involved in trying to 508 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: figure this out, not just the twin thing, but also 509 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: this Nazis association. So you'll see local historians, local doctors, 510 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: local mayors or former mayors all have all have their 511 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: different takes on this, down to the local historian who 512 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: runs the museum, which you'll you'll meet him in a second. 513 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: But let's let's meet town doctor, former town doctor, a 514 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: Nincia Flores da Silva. He set off to solve the 515 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: mystery of the Candido twins, and he interviewed hundreds of people, 516 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: and does Silva one moment notices something odd in a 517 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: lot of these conversations. There's a name that keeps coming 518 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: up a mysteri es medic slash veterinarian who called himself 519 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: Rudolph Weiss. That's right, and Na Silva had this to 520 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: say about it. He talks about the testimonies that he collected, um, 521 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: where they were looking through the names of women who 522 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: were treated by this Rudolph Weis. Um. It seemed that 523 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: he was some sort of rural medic who would go 524 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: from house to house and he would, you know, help 525 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: women with various conditions, including things like vera coast veins, 526 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: which he claimed to have some sort of cure, all 527 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: that he carried around in a bottle, or these tablets 528 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: that he would bring with him. Um. He would also 529 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: occasionally do dental work UM. And of the most important 530 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: detail everyone remembers he would always take a blood sample, 531 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: which is odd if you're just doing work on somebody, 532 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: that's not really part of the equation, right. Yeah. And 533 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: it's weird because this same doctor was interviewed by the 534 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: BBC and gave a very different quote. But it's but 535 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: specifically he is saying, definitely mangle Ais was here, like 536 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: for sure he was here, but I don't think he 537 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: experimented on anybody. So it's it's just very strange because 538 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: you know, we're not describing experimentation. We're describing perhaps a 539 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: doctor helping out in some way. We're also describing observation 540 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: exactly observation at the very least, right, So this this 541 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 1: leads us to the next twist in our journey. Could 542 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: this be true? Could this theory, this conspiracy theory be true. 543 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: We are going to tell you the definitive answer after 544 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors, and we've returned side notes. 545 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: Long time listeners, you know that it's it's somewhat rare 546 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: for us to go. Yes, we have the answer and 547 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: we'll get to it. So we're we're not fooling with you, 548 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: no smoke. We do know the answer right now. Most 549 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: experts will not agree with the claims of the historian Camerassa. 550 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,959 Speaker 1: We want to introduce to you a dcor Ursula Matte 551 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: of the medical genetics unit at Porto Allegra Hospital in Brazil. 552 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: She and her colleagues reject any notion whatsoever that Mangola 553 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: was responsible for this phenomenon, and they they put the 554 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:39,399 Speaker 1: work in. Her team went there during they wanted to 555 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: investigate the reports of higher than average number of twin births, 556 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 1: and they found it was legit. They found a ton 557 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: of twins. They did blood test on seventeen and the 558 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: twenty two pairs of twins, about half of those pairs 559 00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: were identical twins. And Mate says the paraphrasing for here. 560 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: But Mate says, look, you don't need a mad scientist 561 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: to explain this and this time period. Remember that's the 562 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: one in ten births. Just to give some context there, 563 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: and she goes on to say, quote, even though we 564 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: could not find a definitive explanation for this higher incidence, 565 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: the existence of other twin towns around the world, most 566 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: of them in remote, isolated areas with high levels of inbreeding, 567 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: just as in sal Pedro, shows that external influence is 568 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: not needed for this to happen. Yeah, So for her, 569 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: the primary issues are two fold, and there's not a 570 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: Nazi involved. It's isolation and inbreeding, and this allows ordinarily 571 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: recessive trait or quality to flourish. And she's careful to 572 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: note that experts still, as we said, do not fully 573 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: understand the entirety of the mechanisms that are involved in 574 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: the creation of twins. But she says it's extremely difficult 575 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: to think that Angela would have known about this kind 576 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: of stuff in the late nineties sixties. This would have 577 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: been sci fi level technology for him to understand this, 578 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: or for him to be able to not only fully 579 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: understand that mechanism, but to somehow alter it or set 580 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: it into motion. Because what she says, our real culprit 581 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: here is not the Angel of Death in her opinion, 582 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: it is something that is today understood as the Founder effect, 583 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: which is a cool name for a dangerous thing, and 584 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: just as a callback here. Remember we stated that only 585 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: somewhere between eight and twenty families founded this, this village, 586 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: the city, the place, you know, this place, right. Yeah. 587 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: After that initial eight families, there were more that came, 588 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: but they were again from the same area of Germany 589 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: that is also known for its higher than average number 590 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: of twins, So people sharing the same genetic history. First, uh, 591 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: several large families, like eight large families come and then 592 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,240 Speaker 1: more families come from the same area and this becomes 593 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: the kernel of this settlement. So we're saying, is relatively 594 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: homogeneous population. In the world of genetics, that's a bad 595 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: thing often, Uh. Founder effect describes a loss in genetic 596 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: variation that happens when you take a sample of organisms 597 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: from a larger population, very small sample, and then you 598 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: put them somewhere else and don't let them interact with 599 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: other organisms, and you just sort of see what happens 600 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 1: as they their genes bounce around each other in this 601 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: sort of biological version of a bottle episode a television Right, 602 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: we all know what a bottle episode is and always 603 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: reminds me of that scene in The Lion King where 604 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: Scar accuses some character of coming from the shallow end 605 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: of the gene pool. Yeah, and stop ad at all. Yeah, 606 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,800 Speaker 1: in a in a bottle episode is the thing where 607 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: your characters are stuck somewhere and they can't really go anywhere. 608 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: They just sort of bounce off each other genetically. That's 609 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: what's happening. The Founder effect, And what this means is 610 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 1: this is actually fascinating and I believe it will play 611 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 1: a big role in the coming era of space travel. 612 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: When you have a new population that is experiencing Founders effect, 613 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: their lack of genetic diversity can create over time something 614 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: distinct and different from that original larger population. And this 615 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: is happening. This has happened around the world. You can 616 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: find examples of this in the most extreme cases, which 617 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: um that would have to happen over a long period 618 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: of time and probably with a lot of catastrophes along 619 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: the way. In the most extreme cases, founders effect could 620 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 1: lead to speciation at and later evolution of a new species. 621 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: Why is this interesting for space travel because it's a 622 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,399 Speaker 1: long way to Mars. We're talking about long distances, right, 623 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: And if you build an arc ship and people are 624 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: living and reproducing on it instead of you know, in 625 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: some sort of stat of suspended animation, then that could 626 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: also lead to speciation. You could you know, it's quite 627 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: possible that you could arrive on a planet that have 628 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 1: been founded or you know, infiltrated by humans long ago, 629 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: and you wouldn't quite recognize the humans that you found 630 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: when you landed. That's amazing, Yes, ben Mars travel, it's 631 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,719 Speaker 1: the new Galapagos. There we are. Oh that's good, but 632 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,280 Speaker 1: a T shirt. Yes, but this is I mean that 633 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 1: that still feels like the realm of science fiction. But 634 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: we know that founders effect could very easily apply to 635 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: future space colonists. And you can see the early stages 636 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 1: of founders effects in Brazil's Twin Town. So far, neither 637 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: the historian Camerassa, nor any other adherent of the Mangalais 638 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 1: theory has been able to prove that Mangalais actually conducted experiments. 639 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: People have only been able to prove he came to 640 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: the place, he visited on a regular basis. He pretended 641 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: to be a veterinarian. He did treat animals, and he 642 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: probably did it as a way to gain access to 643 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: the human population, a way to gain trust. So back 644 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: to Dr Mante, Right, that's one of the big questions 645 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: a lot of us have listening today. What about the DNA, Right, 646 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: we can do that now. So she conducted a series 647 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: of DNA tests on about thirty families with a team. 648 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: She had a team of twenty researchers and they've been 649 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 1: working on that since two thousand and nine. And they 650 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 1: found a specific gene in the population that appears they're carefully, 651 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: they phrase it carefully. They say it appears more frequently 652 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: in mothers of twins than in those without than the 653 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: mothers without twins. So you can't so they do now 654 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: they can have a at least a partial predictor. But 655 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: she notes a couple other things that bust the Manglais 656 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: theory because she says the prevalence of twin births, like 657 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: they went back through church records and stuff, and she 658 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: says the prevalence of twin births dates back to the 659 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, dates back probably even earlier. It's years and 660 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 1: years before Mangalais would have ever been on the scene. 661 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: And then they also, to your point, Matt, because I 662 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,479 Speaker 1: think I think this is one that was a really 663 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: popular theory for a while, they also analyzed the water. Yeah, 664 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,759 Speaker 1: and they found absolutely no abnormalities within the water. No 665 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: no specific mineral all know, anything, no chemicals that were 666 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: being leached for some reason or another, or elements. It 667 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: was just it was pretty good water. Uh. So that 668 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: was two thousand nine, so they've they've started studying into 669 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: then they're studying again two thousand nine. I believe the 670 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: paper that I looked into, at least the abstract of it, 671 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: was released or published in two thousand eleven. And you 672 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: can read it if you're if you're so inclined, Yeah, yeah, 673 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: and it it is. It is fascinating because there is something, 674 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, no disrespect to the population in this area, 675 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 1: there is some there's something extraordinary and and an odd 676 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: unusual occurring there. Uh. The residents of the residence of 677 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:53,880 Speaker 1: Candido Goody today continue to create an abnormally high number 678 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: of twins. The twin birth rate is real, it continues, 679 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: and every now and again an expert, a journalist, tourists, 680 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,760 Speaker 1: just the one curious will visit to experience this mystery 681 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: firsthand and for the record. In general, the residents are 682 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,760 Speaker 1: happy to you know, allow you to take a picture 683 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: with him and so on. Just be very careful, remember, 684 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: please remember, always be respectful and if you are walking 685 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: up to some people you don't know in a country 686 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 1: you are not familiar with, ask permission before you take 687 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,279 Speaker 1: a photo. It is it can very easily become a 688 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: violation of uh several taboos or more's. In fact, you 689 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,320 Speaker 1: can be attacked sometimes, especially if you're taking photos of children, right, 690 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: So ask in a respectful manner and if they're cool 691 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: with it, then yes, you can get the photo. Due 692 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 1: to its macab associations, that theory about Joseph Mangle, the 693 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: idea that he somehow had hidden science and affected the 694 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: local population, that theory is probably going to continue, even 695 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: though it's incredibly unlie that he was responsible for this phenomenon. 696 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: It's just it helps people sell books, it helps with tourism. There, 697 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: there are reasons people would want to propagate this legend, 698 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: and he very likely did roll through there and definitely visited, yeah, 699 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: more than once. He was there and and his he 700 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: was probably very interested in the town and wanted to 701 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: stick around, but it was probably fearful of being caught. 702 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: And it goes back to that um that doctor's quote 703 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 1: about I don't think he experimented on people, because in 704 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,840 Speaker 1: order to do that, he would be giving himself away, 705 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 1: and in many aspects, not necessarily, he wouldn't have to 706 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: say I'm Dr Mangles, but he would by by doing 707 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: some kind of invasive experimentation there, you're he would almost 708 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 1: like be letting his guard down, I would say, or 709 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 1: letting a veil up. You have to wonder what you 710 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: do with the blood though, which out of context is 711 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: a really weird sentence to say. But you're right, right, 712 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,880 Speaker 1: that's that's a big question, like would he have risked 713 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 1: exposing himself because he was careful He died under a 714 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: different name in peaceful circumstances and didn't have and never 715 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 1: saw a day in court. So it's likely given what 716 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 1: we know about him, that he would have known just 717 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 1: how extraordinarily rare this population was, It would have been 718 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 1: fascinated by it. He probably would have returned. You know, 719 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 1: he was observing, he was paying attention. We don't know 720 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: what conclusions he was drawing, or if he did have 721 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 1: any aims for experimentation, because, like you said, Matt I 722 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,319 Speaker 1: noticed this too. It is not as if he could 723 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,800 Speaker 1: have published a paper on his research, right because because 724 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,840 Speaker 1: any German in South America at this time publishing a 725 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 1: paper on research and twins uh, right there. But you 726 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 1: also have to you also have to imagine, like I mean, 727 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: his fascination with this from the onset you know, bordered 728 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,719 Speaker 1: on obsession, and he did so many experiments they were 729 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: just not rooted in anything but his own morbid curiosity. 730 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,879 Speaker 1: It would say, I mean, he had a goal, But 731 00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: there is part of me that thinks you don't really 732 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: lose that drive, you know, when you get older. If anything, 733 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 1: like he's probably bored and like you know, just kind 734 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,879 Speaker 1: of crawling out of his skin. God, horrible expression there 735 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 1: for him. Um, but maybe he just you know, wanted 736 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,840 Speaker 1: to keep things interesting and then did you know, do 737 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,120 Speaker 1: a couple on the low down, because I mean, let's 738 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,520 Speaker 1: listen to lie. This guy is a mass murderer. He's 739 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: a psychopath, you know, I mean in my in my opinion. Yeah, 740 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,839 Speaker 1: hey Ben, I want to leave the door open just 741 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,640 Speaker 1: a little bit, if that's okay with this one. All 742 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,440 Speaker 1: I want to mention is that there there was a 743 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: BBC small piece put out in where UH photo journalist 744 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 1: video jurnalists traveled there, interviewed several people, including the mayor, 745 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:08,680 Speaker 1: including that doctor we mentioned UH and the historian. And 746 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 1: there's still genetic testing occurring. It's not as though the 747 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: study just you know, absolutely stamped it, you know, conclusive, 748 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,839 Speaker 1: We're done. It definitely shows that, like there's a very 749 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: high likelihood that that the founder effect is you know, 750 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,560 Speaker 1: explains what is occurring there and what has occurred there. 751 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 1: But they're still the community itself is still very much 752 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: interested in finding more about what's happening and their you know, 753 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: their own genes and their ancestry and why so their geneticist. 754 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,800 Speaker 1: They're likely right now at least as like Augusto Santos, 755 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,360 Speaker 1: who is you know, they're taking the DNA kits that 756 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,000 Speaker 1: you may have seen before with like the twenty three 757 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: and me using saliva to further test the twin populations 758 00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 1: and the mothers just to find out I guess, just 759 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 1: more about what heck is happening and why. Yeah, and 760 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: this is important too because the founders effect, Whi's probably 761 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 1: what this is. The found the founder's effect can have 762 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,239 Speaker 1: series compose serious dangers to a population as time continues. 763 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: There are you know, higher rates of certain diseases or 764 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:25,640 Speaker 1: medical conditions in isolated populations across the planet. So when 765 00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:31,440 Speaker 1: you are researching these conditions, in researching this phenomena in 766 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: these communities, you have a very real possibility of being 767 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: able to help address genetic issues down the line. And 768 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,440 Speaker 1: this this is not just important, I would argue for 769 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,799 Speaker 1: these communities, of course, it is a huge priority there, 770 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,399 Speaker 1: but it's also important for the human species overall. So 771 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,239 Speaker 1: these geneticists are doing incredibly important work. And I know, 772 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,839 Speaker 1: you know, I know a lot of us probably weren't 773 00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,960 Speaker 1: expecting to talk about space travel in this episode of 774 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: all phases, but it will. Like the larger point is 775 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,960 Speaker 1: that this research is going to arm the human species 776 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 1: with with some profound knowledge that will come in handy 777 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,800 Speaker 1: in the coming millennia. And you know, that's that's way 778 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 1: out there. I know that's that's very much a tangent. 779 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,080 Speaker 1: But what's happening now, Just like you said, Matt is 780 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:26,200 Speaker 1: important to the present, the past, and the future. And 781 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: we're also fortunate that we have research capable of dispelling 782 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: this mystery because one of the one of the things 783 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:38,919 Speaker 1: that always bugs me is like the the glamorization of 784 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:44,399 Speaker 1: you know, various Nazi ideas through conspiracy, you know. And 785 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:49,840 Speaker 1: what's what's great about this story is that we found good, 786 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:55,759 Speaker 1: diligent scientists one out over mad scientists. Unless that is, 787 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,880 Speaker 1: you have proof, you have proof that Mangles did something 788 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:05,040 Speaker 1: that's somehow further accelerated the production of twins. If you do, 789 00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,480 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear it. Let us know. We try 790 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,560 Speaker 1: to be easy to find online. That's right. You can 791 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 1: find us in the usual Internet locations. Of note, we 792 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,359 Speaker 1: are on Facebook, we are on Twitter, both of those 793 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,200 Speaker 1: are conspiracy stuff. You can find us on Instagram at 794 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: Conspiracy Stuff Show and Matt correct me if I'm wrong, 795 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: but I believe we are also conspiracy stuff on YouTube. Yes, 796 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 1: that is correct. Check it out, pull up your oculus 797 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,320 Speaker 1: and watch us in three D a slash in a 798 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,600 Speaker 1: virtual environment slash. It's not really three dashes of virtual environment. 799 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 1: It's fun. I just tried it. It's weird as heck, 800 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,240 Speaker 1: but you can watch Ben and he's like forty ft 801 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,200 Speaker 1: tall looming over to you, and uh, I don't know 802 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,400 Speaker 1: it's worth it. Try it out, see how it plays 803 00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:51,280 Speaker 1: for you. I loved it so m yeah. YouTube definitely 804 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,000 Speaker 1: for sure. And hey, if you're listening to this via 805 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,920 Speaker 1: you know audio, we ask that you please review the 806 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,080 Speaker 1: podcast if you if you have not all ready, wherever 807 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,160 Speaker 1: you listen, it doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter how 808 00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,800 Speaker 1: you review it. Just getting feedback from you is great. 809 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,200 Speaker 1: We love it, we want it. It helps the show out. 810 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,399 Speaker 1: We do appreciate it. Thank you. If you don't want 811 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,120 Speaker 1: to do that stuff, you still want to interact with us, 812 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:17,879 Speaker 1: We've got a phone number, that's right, we do. You 813 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,120 Speaker 1: can give us a ring right now one eight three 814 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,319 Speaker 1: three s T d W y t K. You'll hear 815 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,319 Speaker 1: a message at the top just to let you know 816 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,760 Speaker 1: you're in the right place, and then you've got three minutes. 817 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 1: Go nuts. They go bananas with it, go crazy. Give us, 818 00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,400 Speaker 1: give yourself a moniker sick nickname. You can use your 819 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,680 Speaker 1: government name if you want, we don't care. It's more 820 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,239 Speaker 1: important for you to let us know if we can 821 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,799 Speaker 1: use your voice and or message on the air. Uh. 822 00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,879 Speaker 1: And if there's something that you want to just tell 823 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,479 Speaker 1: us but maybe don't feel like sharing with the rest 824 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,200 Speaker 1: of the world, that's fine. Just attack it on at 825 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,360 Speaker 1: the end. But most importantly, do not feel like you 826 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,960 Speaker 1: have to censor yourself. Do not feel like you need 827 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: to call repeatedly. Do not feel like you need to 828 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,840 Speaker 1: squish ten minutes story into three minutes. Give that story 829 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,000 Speaker 1: the air it needs to breathe right to us, tell 830 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,279 Speaker 1: us the whole thing. We read every letter we get. 831 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,520 Speaker 1: You can send them along right now at our good 832 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,480 Speaker 1: old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy at i 833 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:36,600 Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to 834 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,439 Speaker 1: Know is a production of I heart Radio. 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