Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Katie's Crib. In this episode,
Speaker 1: we are talking about going back to work, guys. For
Speaker 1: a lot of parents, this is just it is a huge, big,
Speaker 1: monumental decision to make. Am I going back to work?
Speaker 1: When am I going back to work? How do I
Speaker 1: go back to work? Will my baby forget who I am?
Speaker 1: And if you're lucky, you were able to take a
Speaker 1: maternity leave, but it just never feels like enough time.
Speaker 1: So more than half of new moms go back to
Speaker 1: work before their babies turn one, and it can be
Speaker 1: a very tough transition for everybody in the household. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk to June Diane Raphael and she stops
Speaker 1: by and shares her experiences of going back to work
Speaker 1: after she had her kids. Then we're talking to a
Speaker 1: labor and employment attorney, Janet Swerdlow, and she breaks it down,
Speaker 1: you know what kind of legal rights expecting and new
Speaker 1: parents have in the workplace. So let's get started. Hi everybody,
Speaker 1: and welcome to Katie's crib. I am here with my
Speaker 1: dear friend June Raphael. We went to college together, did
Speaker 1: Katie lived. We also were in scene study classes together
Speaker 1: like years ago. Did you forget Katie. I have literally
Speaker 1: blocked that out with Richard, with Richard and Doucuez, Nick Douez,
Speaker 1: guys were like scene study classes I've taken, though, like
Speaker 1: I feel like l A is not a great place
Speaker 1: for serious actor training. June, I'm pretty sure that that
Speaker 1: scene we did in that scene class might still go
Speaker 1: down to some of the best acting I've ever done.
Speaker 1: And no one I remember what was it. I really
Speaker 1: don't know. Um, we are here talking to June about
Speaker 1: they were professional actors at that point. I mean, you
Speaker 1: were more than me and like just doing like seed
Speaker 1: work on the side. We are another close. I feel
Speaker 1: the same I am, and you have all The podcast
Speaker 1: is going to go because Jude and I are friendship.
Speaker 1: We talk over each other a lot. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I also forgetting it's an audio medium. Um, So can
Speaker 1: you do me a favor for those who don't. Can
Speaker 1: you take us back to before you had kids? Like,
Speaker 1: take us through just like what a day would look
Speaker 1: like before you threw kids into the mix. Can you
Speaker 1: remember barely? I feel like I like went for walks
Speaker 1: and yeah, I remember. What I remember the most is
Speaker 1: my weekends. Yeah, people, I think don't understand that when
Speaker 1: you're a parent, Like Friday night is Sunday night for me,
Speaker 1: Like Friday night is like Sunday nights when it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I get to go to vacation tomorrow, meaning work. It
Speaker 1: really is true. Yeah, like the weekends, like let's like
Speaker 1: all right, let's go. We gotta fill up our day.
Speaker 1: We got to like make it to birthday parties, down
Speaker 1: the naps, yeah, and just drive through it all you
Speaker 1: have too. I have two children, and what are their ages?
Speaker 1: Four years? Just as if a few weeks ago and
Speaker 1: one months? What is twenty one months? I don't know,
Speaker 1: is it? Okay? It's under two years? Just under two years, okay,
Speaker 1: So they're pretty close in age. They pretty close in age.
Speaker 1: I mean you sort of bang that out. I did.
Speaker 1: I did, which I I recommend, although it was insane
Speaker 1: for a year. But now I'm seeing the fruits of that,
Speaker 1: Like I'm seeing that they connect. We're in a really
Speaker 1: good time right now. That's good. Caught me in a
Speaker 1: good in a good in a good season. What would
Speaker 1: you describe your work life balance before you had kids?
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean, Like I feel like
Speaker 1: I think when you're an actor trying to be an
Speaker 1: actor or whatever it is out there that you're trying
Speaker 1: to do, you spend a lot of your hours getting
Speaker 1: after that. But then also you would what spend your
Speaker 1: weekend ends or Friday nights. We're going to say anything
Speaker 1: that's that revolutionary, But I'm shocked at how much time
Speaker 1: I wasted. And I think that being a working mother
Speaker 1: who's creative is a really interesting challenge because there are
Speaker 1: times where I'm like, no, I have to procrastinate. I
Speaker 1: have to It's not like I'm sitting down and doing
Speaker 1: Excel sheets, do you know what I mean? Like, if
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about something, or you know, Casey and I
Speaker 1: write together, if we're pitching on whatever, there's got to
Speaker 1: be a certain amount of time built in in the
Speaker 1: creative process to funk around absolutely, to talk about everything
Speaker 1: that's not related to what we should be talking about,
Speaker 1: because it might come out of that right, because that's
Speaker 1: the process. And yet when you're a working parents, you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I only have so many hours to work. I gotta
Speaker 1: get it done. But the creative process is not that box.
Speaker 1: Think about that. It's a little hard to give myself
Speaker 1: permission to just I mean I've never done this. I
Speaker 1: don't even know why. This is what I would like
Speaker 1: to do, to be like, oh, you know today, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go see a movie. I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1: I don't even watch TV anymore. It's horrifying and I
Speaker 1: only have a seven month old. I mean, does that change?
Speaker 1: Will I get better? Will I ever watch TV again? Well?
Speaker 1: Is he sleeping through the night? He's put down? Okay,
Speaker 1: So because you get your nights back to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: and then I think you start to lose them again.
Speaker 1: Like I'm starting to like Gus is now going about
Speaker 1: like eight as opposed to seven, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's creeping in, scrapping into your nighttime. Um, when you
Speaker 1: had your first kid, did you take time off? How
Speaker 1: much time? Did you feel pressure to go back to
Speaker 1: work very quickly? So when I had my first I
Speaker 1: auditioned for Grace and Frankie at three weeks postpartum. What yes, wait,
Speaker 1: what I know that? And I was still in my
Speaker 1: you know, as Ali Wang says, like the candies you
Speaker 1: were still in like your nice diaper that comes along
Speaker 1: with a very difficult birth. I was really recovering. So
Speaker 1: Casey got married two weeks after I gave birth and
Speaker 1: I was her maid of honor. So I had this wedding.
Speaker 1: Not kidding, we loved Casey, but seriously, no, I regret
Speaker 1: not fully being present for that wedding, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I was there, but I was like, I
Speaker 1: was like um weeken with Bernie's Like I felt it
Speaker 1: was like being moved around in sunglasses. Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1: It was not your assault, I know. And I just
Speaker 1: felt like I was a witness more than I was
Speaker 1: a participant. I was just in a crazy moment in
Speaker 1: my life. So you guys, for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm referencing Casey, guests, former guests, and former friend but
Speaker 1: and very good friend Junes. But also June has a phrase,
Speaker 1: what do you call the first few months post baby?
Speaker 1: She calls them the dark times, which when I first
Speaker 1: had my son and we first spoke and I was
Speaker 1: so in it, you were like, oh, yeah, you're in
Speaker 1: the dark time, which you have labeled as I think
Speaker 1: they are. It's night. It's that's a constant state of night,
Speaker 1: and like it's just there's no beginning or end to
Speaker 1: the night. It's all night. It's all night time. So
Speaker 1: did you go back to work and c you were
Speaker 1: auditioning quickly liked audition. That was the only thing I
Speaker 1: was going to audition four because they like, I got
Speaker 1: this script and I saw the part, and it's very interesting.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we read something that the lines come easily. So
Speaker 1: I actually didn't spend much time for like memorizing the lines,
Speaker 1: which I think is telling because it just was I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I know how to do this. I
Speaker 1: memorized them in like two minutes and went in when
Speaker 1: I went. I remember going to the audition and it
Speaker 1: was such a feat to get there, to go to
Speaker 1: Paramount for my house. How did you leave your house?
Speaker 1: And I was like breastfeeding and I was just like
Speaker 1: I left. Was the first time when I left for
Speaker 1: that audition that Gus had a bottle with breast milk
Speaker 1: in it. And I was like, I don't know what's
Speaker 1: going to happen. Who did you leave him with? Paul
Speaker 1: your husband? My husband? How did you feel leaving and
Speaker 1: getting behind? Because I feel like this is Paul was there,
Speaker 1: My dad was there and with his girlfriend because he
Speaker 1: had come to Casey's weddings, so he was there, and
Speaker 1: so when I came back, they were I went to
Speaker 1: the audition, I was again Bernie, you know, just like
Speaker 1: going through My hair was in a bunch, giant but
Speaker 1: at the top of my head, nice cute. But it
Speaker 1: was all I could do, you know. And I did
Speaker 1: this scene twice. I did both scenes one time each
Speaker 1: and then left and was so proud. Was so not
Speaker 1: about the audition, which was like, God, if I could
Speaker 1: bring that into my other work, it was like the
Speaker 1: least of my concerns, um And then I came back
Speaker 1: and I were driving the top of our street and
Speaker 1: I saw like us at three weeks old in the
Speaker 1: baby carriage with my dad and Paul, and he was
Speaker 1: so happy. By the way, my breastfeeding whole, like journey
Speaker 1: with us was a disaster. And I realized now like
Speaker 1: I was starving him because he had a full bottle
Speaker 1: and was like the happiest ever been, so like the
Speaker 1: first time I left him. I came back, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess you've just been hungry. Guys. Breastfeeding literally is
Speaker 1: the hardest thing in the entire world, you know what
Speaker 1: I resent. I think I said this to Katie, but
Speaker 1: like I Okay, the push in healthcare to get all
Speaker 1: mom's breastfeeding, like yes, yes, yes, save for this. There's
Speaker 1: no infrastructure to support it in the real world. There
Speaker 1: is no like every public space, sorry I'm screaming, I
Speaker 1: love it, scream away should have a private lactation area
Speaker 1: in this contrary period period, every public space, every workspace,
Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck, So thank you. So that's
Speaker 1: how I feel about that, which is like, how dare
Speaker 1: you push women so hard, from their doctors, to their
Speaker 1: pediatric stands, to every sort of like resource that's out there,
Speaker 1: that this is the best thing and then provide no
Speaker 1: support in the world for it. It's criminal. So I
Speaker 1: struggled through it and had bought into like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: no other way. I can't give bottles. Well you can,
Speaker 1: well you can, well you can um and they're great.
Speaker 1: So pretty early on you got behind the wheel of
Speaker 1: a car and drove and left your house and like
Speaker 1: became a presentable human being. And do you remember I
Speaker 1: can remember the first time leaving and driving back being
Speaker 1: like I'm a mom, Like that's my identity. Now as
Speaker 1: I walk through this world and I don't know who
Speaker 1: the fucking hell I am, Like it's so weird, and
Speaker 1: now I don't even remember those times, like at all?
Speaker 1: Did you, um, what was your help? Assistance, babysitter, family,
Speaker 1: husband at home? What has been your infrastructure? I'm curious
Speaker 1: from baby one to baby two, from what I can tell,
Speaker 1: child raising with all the help, if you're a working mother,
Speaker 1: it just turns into a crap ton of logistics people's
Speaker 1: So how tell me about finding help and nanny? How
Speaker 1: did that make you feel? Was that a decision that
Speaker 1: you and Paul had made previous too? Yeah, we did,
Speaker 1: but with such little um education on what a work
Speaker 1: the rights of domestic workers are and you know what
Speaker 1: it is like doing employed to domestic workers in California
Speaker 1: and just simply what you know, we were taking other
Speaker 1: responsibilities we're taking on as employers, which I think a
Speaker 1: lot of moms do not understand, and I wish there
Speaker 1: was more education on there's a Domestic Rates Act the
Speaker 1: past there are legally um like I've now printed out
Speaker 1: that you know, my god, I don't know anything about
Speaker 1: this right but because most moms don't, and you have
Speaker 1: most moms, not most moms, but a lot of moms
Speaker 1: are employers. And so I definitely struggled in that department
Speaker 1: with I hired someone before I had the baby and
Speaker 1: had no idea what I needed or wanted and was like,
Speaker 1: do you know how to do cprs? She was like yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like my question was do you know? My question
Speaker 1: was do you know how to handle a circumcision? Like
Speaker 1: literally like and now people know I'll be circumcised. But
Speaker 1: he is like, I was literally like do you know
Speaker 1: how to handle that? Because like, I'm really freaked out
Speaker 1: and don't want to deal with that. Great you do.
Speaker 1: You're hired, no idea, no idea, no idea. And what
Speaker 1: I found is so you didn't use like a nanny service.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I ended out you did again and I
Speaker 1: found um a nanny who I ended up doing that
Speaker 1: because I had I made a misstep earlier on and
Speaker 1: with the woman I hired was not the right fit personality,
Speaker 1: how do you know? Just personality wise, reality wise? I
Speaker 1: felt like I was a new mom. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of judgment coming my way and I couldn't handle it.
Speaker 1: She was not supportive of breastfeeding, and she made me
Speaker 1: feel really badly and she would do like voices as gus.
Speaker 1: She'd be like, I'm hungry, mom, what And I am
Speaker 1: hungry and I was like, wait what And I will
Speaker 1: say it wasn't the right fit, but I did try
Speaker 1: to have many conversations with her. You know, here's the
Speaker 1: thing I'll say about like bringing someone into your life
Speaker 1: to support you. I really believe that there are so
Speaker 1: many unbelievable domestic workers in nanny's who who make you know,
Speaker 1: working mother's lives possible. And it's a beautiful relationship and
Speaker 1: it's also professional relationship and should be treated as much.
Speaker 1: And I think we live in a world where it's
Speaker 1: like the work is devalued and so it is not
Speaker 1: given the professional treatment that it should be, and boundaries
Speaker 1: are crossed and they don't have an h R department
Speaker 1: to go to, and so you moms are like taking
Speaker 1: on this thing that they don't even And I really
Speaker 1: wish there was more support both for domestic workers and
Speaker 1: for mothers and parents. You know, this should really be
Speaker 1: a class. Like of course, like you know, in l A,
Speaker 1: we're very fortunate and for you guys listening, like you know,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of classes offered in childbirth. You know,
Speaker 1: how to do a diaper, how to do a swaddle,
Speaker 1: things like that, but there really are no classes offered
Speaker 1: in how nanny, how to take care of a nanny,
Speaker 1: how to really put boundaries up, like set yourself as
Speaker 1: a leader, or I felt like whatever it is that
Speaker 1: you know, it is a very very very interesting and tricky.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying from both sides because I was a
Speaker 1: nanny for from the other side too. I mean, I
Speaker 1: wasn't a nanny, but it was a babysitter, and so
Speaker 1: understand like it's a it's a domestic space you're walking into.
Speaker 1: It's a very interesting thing to navigate. So I was
Speaker 1: fortunate enough very early on. I mean, gus is only
Speaker 1: three months to find the woman who I love and
Speaker 1: a door and who I respect, and it has made
Speaker 1: my life possible. And she's still with you, still with me,
Speaker 1: would be with me till the day I dict um.
Speaker 1: She is wonderful. She is very very lucky to have her,
Speaker 1: and she is truly both taken care of my children
Speaker 1: and taken care of me in doing that. And the
Speaker 1: thing that I find most important is my relationship with her.
Speaker 1: It's like she's great with the kids, of course, but
Speaker 1: I am so proud of the relationship we have that
Speaker 1: we've worked on that you know, we had gone through
Speaker 1: conflicts before that. Yeah, and we've had, like you know,
Speaker 1: we do it a little less frequently now, but in
Speaker 1: the beginning when it was just us and I didn't
Speaker 1: have the second like we would have mean eating once
Speaker 1: a month, Oh my god, I need to do that,
Speaker 1: just like I want to hear how is this going
Speaker 1: for you? What do there anything want to talk about?
Speaker 1: Here's a couple of things that I want to talk about.
Speaker 1: Like it's a job, it is. What was it like
Speaker 1: the first time you ever left your home, your kid
Speaker 1: to go to work, and how did you feel and
Speaker 1: how did others make you feel? The first day I
Speaker 1: went to work was on Grayson Frankie, and I had
Speaker 1: a clugged duct. The first day I went to work
Speaker 1: was on Grayson Frankie and I had a clugged duct,
Speaker 1: mother fucker. And I was literal id for I've never
Speaker 1: had one before, so I didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 1: And I remember being in the makeup trail or just
Speaker 1: like getting ready to a scene with Jane, and I
Speaker 1: was like, my nipple is there was shooting pain. And
Speaker 1: I was texting my lactation helper and she was like,
Speaker 1: you must sterilize the needle and then pop it. I
Speaker 1: had never and I've had four o'clocks I have. I'm sorry. Okay,
Speaker 1: So it was what they call a bled What is that?
Speaker 1: What is that? It's a little white thing. So I
Speaker 1: was like, I can't do that. I'm working. So I worked. Yes,
Speaker 1: I worked through the day. This breast, I'll never was
Speaker 1: a rock. It was a rock. I couldn't pump out
Speaker 1: of it. It was shooting pain. Yeah. So then like
Speaker 1: having to explain to the A D S like I
Speaker 1: have to go pump and this is all when I
Speaker 1: talk about like lactation rooms. It's also just educating people
Speaker 1: like you have a working mother, you know. It's I
Speaker 1: would get so fucking mad at the A d S.
Speaker 1: They would get on their talkies and be like, um,
Speaker 1: June has to go do her thing, and then like
Speaker 1: I'm not embarrassed about it. I'm going to pump breast milk,
Speaker 1: like like where are we like breasted? Like this is
Speaker 1: so stupid. Oh my god. I had such an I'm
Speaker 1: so at all a D department. Oh my god. Now
Speaker 1: I had support from I had support from other people
Speaker 1: for sure, but like I felt a head to like
Speaker 1: really navigate that with some of the just when you
Speaker 1: said to Gus the first time, did it feel like
Speaker 1: a thing or did it not even feel like a thing,
Speaker 1: Like you were in work mode and it was like
Speaker 1: easy for you or was it like dealing with that
Speaker 1: rock hard breath so much pain? And then I went
Speaker 1: home and the electrician filt and was like nurse and nurse,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't.
Speaker 1: And so he was liked like trying to get on
Speaker 1: the nipple, and I was just so I couldn't do it,
Speaker 1: and of course I felt and I was like crying.
Speaker 1: My mother in law was over and she had she
Speaker 1: was she's an r N. She had the steriles like
Speaker 1: I'm going to you know, I'll do it for you.
Speaker 1: And we sat in my bathroom and she put a
Speaker 1: needle my nipple and I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And then
Speaker 1: the craziest thing happened. So if you can imagine this
Speaker 1: tiniest stream of milk popping out of your nipple, like
Speaker 1: but like projectile, steady, but like a pin, like so
Speaker 1: thin like a pin, and I just had to empty it. Okay,
Speaker 1: you guys, whatever, whatever, because it was like it could
Speaker 1: you couldn't see it because it was like it would
Speaker 1: be so small. It was, but it was a steady
Speaker 1: stream that I had to forever, that I had to
Speaker 1: get out leaving Gus. I mean, honestly, Katie, I don't
Speaker 1: even remember the moment. I remember it was like the
Speaker 1: moment you're talking about the identity shift was. I think
Speaker 1: he was probably like maybe four weeks old or so,
Speaker 1: and the first night out Paul and I did, we
Speaker 1: went to a Billy Joel was performing at Hollywood Bowl,
Speaker 1: and I remember that was our first night out and
Speaker 1: sitting there and thinking, I will never be alone with
Speaker 1: my own thoughts again. I will be me inside this
Speaker 1: head of mine and then I'll be with him. And
Speaker 1: it was this like I felt like I was being
Speaker 1: split into It was really intense, and it was really
Speaker 1: an identity shift that I can only say, like you'll
Speaker 1: go through. Maybe the last time was like puberty of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not a baby anyhore right right now. I feel
Speaker 1: I have been with him forever. Difference that and I
Speaker 1: felt like I had to really grieve that time alone
Speaker 1: with myself. I remember, like I when I first had Albie,
Speaker 1: I really didn't connect to him, quickly, and so I
Speaker 1: had a night nurse, and I felt bad because I
Speaker 1: had had other friends that had had a night nurse,
Speaker 1: but they had after three nights, said you know what,
Speaker 1: we don't need it. We don't want someone else in
Speaker 1: our house, and we really we don't. Really, I want
Speaker 1: to do this on my own. So I thought that
Speaker 1: was my experience, and yet I didn't connect to Alby's
Speaker 1: in the night nurse would come every night and I
Speaker 1: would happily pass him off right like I was like,
Speaker 1: please take him. I don't like this. I don't know
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. This is like literally the least fun
Speaker 1: I've ever had. This is the dark times, Okay. And
Speaker 1: then at about six weeks I started to go back
Speaker 1: to work slowly and we had our nanny and simultaneously,
Speaker 1: it's kind of when I fell in love with Albie
Speaker 1: and I remember her giving him a bath and I
Speaker 1: wanted to ring her fucking neck like like I just
Speaker 1: was like the mama bear came out of me, like
Speaker 1: he's mine, he's mine, he's mine, it's my responsibility. I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be the one taking gear of him. You're
Speaker 1: not supposed to be dank. Given that is since then
Speaker 1: completely saving it. But at first I had a really
Speaker 1: hard time just watching somebody else take care of my kid.
Speaker 1: Now I don't know if it's because my mom was
Speaker 1: a stay at home mom and I felt like I
Speaker 1: felt like she did a great job and I was
Speaker 1: somewhat failing. It's a lot of the pressure we put
Speaker 1: on herself. It's really have you found that judgment as
Speaker 1: far as being a working mom and having your nanny
Speaker 1: come with you places or yes, I think that's been
Speaker 1: hard to navigate, but um, it gets it's gotten a
Speaker 1: lot easier. And I will say have a very easy child.
Speaker 1: I have a very easy older child, and the baby
Speaker 1: is very like forgiving of me. So I haven't felt
Speaker 1: like I remember Gusts went through a period that where
Speaker 1: I was working a lot where I would come home
Speaker 1: and he would be angry with me, and I haven't
Speaker 1: found that. Oh God, that is going to just break
Speaker 1: my heart. Yeah, And he was like, withhold and now
Speaker 1: you work for me. So so much of what I'm
Speaker 1: realizing for myself is like I have to come in
Speaker 1: on top and just say, you know, you're really mad
Speaker 1: at me, You're really mad, and I can handle that, Like,
Speaker 1: tell me more that's so you're really upset. Has he
Speaker 1: ever ran to the run to the nanny over you?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah? And like I know, we say in our heads,
Speaker 1: but that's good, right, because it's just good that more
Speaker 1: people love your nanny. You don't want him to not
Speaker 1: like your nanny, but like or your babysitter. But does
Speaker 1: it break your heart at all? Of course. But I
Speaker 1: think the flip side is a better way for me
Speaker 1: to handle it, which is, like you feel safe to
Speaker 1: reject me. You can reject me because guess what, motherfucker,
Speaker 1: I'm always here. That is a huge lesson. You can
Speaker 1: reject me because I can handle it because I'm the
Speaker 1: big person and you're the little person. And I'm going
Speaker 1: to put on my big girl pants and say like
Speaker 1: it's only because you love me so much, and you
Speaker 1: know I'm so unconditionally loving, always here, So bring all
Speaker 1: of your bad feelings to me, like you feel safe.
Speaker 1: And that is the truth that if they can reject
Speaker 1: you because they feel safe too, because they know, like
Speaker 1: a lot of things I think with moms and dads,
Speaker 1: like the dads will sometimes get like the love and
Speaker 1: even though they're not there as much, but it's like
Speaker 1: the moms get the other stuff. It's whoever is not
Speaker 1: there a lot because all the homes I have baby
Speaker 1: sat in, like mom's dad's and mom's moms, whoever was
Speaker 1: away the baby or would always sort of put that
Speaker 1: parent on a pep still because they know the other
Speaker 1: one is always there and always there, they can kind
Speaker 1: of treat them like garbage. This is a huge thing
Speaker 1: for me to remember. Will you remind me of this
Speaker 1: the first time I call you crying and I'm like,
Speaker 1: he just ran to me, and you know what, he
Speaker 1: will and that's okay. It's less to me about like,
Speaker 1: oh he feels safe with her. I'm sure that he does,
Speaker 1: and it's just absolutely safe and warm and nurturing person
Speaker 1: and there's love there, right. But I think there's also
Speaker 1: a way to say, like I support your relationship with
Speaker 1: her and you should have that, and I want that,
Speaker 1: and I am your primary relationship so you can bring
Speaker 1: all of your nasty negative feelings to me. Oh that
Speaker 1: makes me feel way better. Did you find it Did
Speaker 1: you feel any fear or judgment as far as like
Speaker 1: a maternity leave, Like did you have to come to
Speaker 1: terms with it? Because I had a problem. I had
Speaker 1: a hard time, Like I remember being like, oh god,
Speaker 1: am I going to tell people I'm pregnant who I
Speaker 1: work with? You know, Like are they gonna treat me
Speaker 1: differently because they know I'm pregnant? Do they think that
Speaker 1: I'm less than you know, some some people think of
Speaker 1: pregnancy as a disability or like did you find that? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I have. I have a lot of thoughts
Speaker 1: on that, Like I do believe women play a motherhood tax.
Speaker 1: That it's just true and there's data so to support it.
Speaker 1: And um that we are literally like rearing the next
Speaker 1: generation for this economy, and we do so much work
Speaker 1: that's unpaid labor, and we are not you know, it's
Speaker 1: really not valued. And the same way pregnancy seen as
Speaker 1: like a disability. Mother it is seen as like a
Speaker 1: disability and companies see it as a bottom line that
Speaker 1: they have to pay for. Um. I really hope that
Speaker 1: changes and things that needs to change, especially as like
Speaker 1: more and more women are in the working force than
Speaker 1: ever and yet we have created no structure for them
Speaker 1: to succeed in it. Um. So I know there's this
Speaker 1: whole thing about like women can have it all, which
Speaker 1: means like you can work and be a mom and
Speaker 1: be grade at both. But it's really not as it's
Speaker 1: saying women women can have it all in a framework
Speaker 1: that was not built to support them in any way.
Speaker 1: It's like that's problematic. Did you have separation anxiety? Um?
Speaker 1: I went through a really hard time when Gus went
Speaker 1: into preschool because he had a hard time early days.
Speaker 1: For me, the preschool separation was harder for me to
Speaker 1: like see him crying and have to have teachers pry
Speaker 1: him off of me and walk away. June, I am
Speaker 1: like and also walk away for confidence with like a
Speaker 1: happy I like. I remember going back to Scandal and
Speaker 1: having staring at the monitor because there was a night
Speaker 1: nurse there exide to go to work at four o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning and call him my mom saying, you
Speaker 1: need to be on a plane tomorrow because I know this,
Speaker 1: I don't really know this person watching my son and
Speaker 1: she's going to shake him. I was convinced she was
Speaker 1: going to shake him and give him brain damage. It
Speaker 1: was what I was. It was like a hundred percent
Speaker 1: the Bad movie that was on repeat in my head,
Speaker 1: and that was like my total anxiety that I was, like,
Speaker 1: I've worked so hard for ten months carrying this baby
Speaker 1: inside me. I pushed him out of my vagina. Now
Speaker 1: I'm handing him over to someone who is going to
Speaker 1: wreck the whole thing. Um yeah, Um, can you tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about I think it's amazing because
Speaker 1: you are really amazing and talking about being a working mom.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us another way in which you are
Speaker 1: helping this whole world of being a working mom and
Speaker 1: explain a little bit about the Jane absolutely, So. Really,
Speaker 1: when I had my second, you're putting your money where
Speaker 1: your mouth is. I know, well, I I feel like
Speaker 1: I've created something that I personally have needed. You know,
Speaker 1: that's sometimes where the best ideas come from. It's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: I just simply needed this. When I had my second,
Speaker 1: I was I'm writing a book right now, and I
Speaker 1: could not find a place to write. And I created
Speaker 1: We turned our guest house into an office, and they
Speaker 1: find the kids find us out there. And it's just
Speaker 1: been really challenging for me to like work. And so
Speaker 1: many more people are working in mobile ways right and
Speaker 1: not checking into like nine to five. So I, along
Speaker 1: with my co founder Jesse Know, we've created what we
Speaker 1: call the Gene Club, which is inspired by Jane Adams
Speaker 1: of the Hull House in Chicago, who did so much
Speaker 1: amazing work for women. But essentially, we are a work
Speaker 1: in community space with an emphasis on the working mother
Speaker 1: and women general. So we provide a work space where
Speaker 1: there's child care offered. So again a very basic concept
Speaker 1: but one that has not been done. What we also
Speaker 1: do is we really try to take care of the
Speaker 1: whole woman. So we're kind of we want her to
Speaker 1: feel like she's walking into a hotel, like a five
Speaker 1: star hotel when she comes. So yes, we will take
Speaker 1: care of her children, but we will also do her
Speaker 1: children's laundry, and we will also, if she chooses, send
Speaker 1: her home with a meal to put in the oven
Speaker 1: because and we will also like get her car washed
Speaker 1: and you know, all right, But you know, I think
Speaker 1: when we talk about women and the things that they do,
Speaker 1: it can see like menial, like oh, yeah, you're you're
Speaker 1: probably in your household in charge of all of those
Speaker 1: things and the schedules, and like the corporation you run
Speaker 1: from one baby, you know, like all of it running
Speaker 1: the household is running, right, But we but when we
Speaker 1: also try to understand why women don't run for office,
Speaker 1: why women don't you know um risk in terms of
Speaker 1: like startups and why there are so few women see
Speaker 1: us and we talk about why we're not going to
Speaker 1: the next level of dreaming like the impossible. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel like we have to we have to have
Speaker 1: an honest discussion about motherhood and the other jobs that
Speaker 1: we're doing, be it taking care of children, are also
Speaker 1: taking care of elderly parents, which I have done, and
Speaker 1: you know, it is unpaid labor that is not accounted
Speaker 1: for that most women are doing. And so mind so
Speaker 1: it's like when we we talk about these things, there's
Speaker 1: an assumption that that work is being done, and we
Speaker 1: don't ask women how they're doing it. We just assume
Speaker 1: it's being done, even if they have help. And if
Speaker 1: you spend you know, Carrie always said to me, Carrie
Speaker 1: Washington always said when we talk about like running the
Speaker 1: business of you and your family and things like that,
Speaker 1: if you're spending all of your time maintaining, you can
Speaker 1: never grow. And so women, whether you're stay at home
Speaker 1: mom or a working mom or whatever it is, it's
Speaker 1: this constant on five minutes behind them because you're you're
Speaker 1: just maintaining the day to day life. And so there's
Speaker 1: no space for you to go to grow and to
Speaker 1: go and to dream and to maybe go for like
Speaker 1: a bigger goal that you might have set for yourself.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. So the big sort of piece of what
Speaker 1: we offer is that separate childcare that's on site. Our
Speaker 1: mothers are there with us. We are incubating a space
Speaker 1: in Large mont right now where our investors are in,
Speaker 1: our executive team are and we have some friends just
Speaker 1: coming over so we can sort of test our services
Speaker 1: with them. Um, they're not being members. Were opening up
Speaker 1: another location in l A. I'll come back on once
Speaker 1: we do and we can talk about it for paying members.
Speaker 1: To really take this idea and like, you know, make
Speaker 1: sure many many women have access to it because the
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's very it's very real problem, right.
Speaker 1: And I say this from also a position of privilege,
Speaker 1: like there are many women who neither ford nanny's nor
Speaker 1: daycare and have small children and have to So my
Speaker 1: dream is this expense to a level where it's affordable
Speaker 1: and accessible to all women. Um. But we're really we're
Speaker 1: totally funded by women in our community. UM, and I'm
Speaker 1: really happy about that. But but I feel like the
Speaker 1: conversations that are being had right now about sexual arrest
Speaker 1: in the workplace, and you know, all of this stuff
Speaker 1: is so incredibly important, and also we need to start
Speaker 1: talking about like mothers in the workplace and parents and
Speaker 1: and the new ways in which we can create space
Speaker 1: for them, because I believe that we're not tapping into
Speaker 1: like all of women can all of what women can do.
Speaker 1: If you were going to give a piece of advice
Speaker 1: to a working mom, that is the worst question ever,
Speaker 1: because how do you narrow down to one thing? But
Speaker 1: what comes to mind? What do you wish you had known?
Speaker 1: Or so someone told me something about boys and working mothers.
Speaker 1: I haven't like, No, I cannot cite this data, so
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it. I don't know where it
Speaker 1: came from, but I choose to believe it, which is that, um,
Speaker 1: I had a working mother, and I was very close
Speaker 1: to my mother and also wanted more time from her,
Speaker 1: right I did. So I can say that very honestly,
Speaker 1: But I am so glad that I had that model
Speaker 1: for myself. And you know, I believe so the data
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about those is something about raising boys.
Speaker 1: We're both raising boys. Until they tell me otherwise, but
Speaker 1: for now there I'm identifying them as boys. Um, but
Speaker 1: that of course may change. But so but I do believe,
Speaker 1: especially for for children who identify as boys that and
Speaker 1: this is the data that I'm thinking of. Their views
Speaker 1: on women are completely like they're way more progressive if
Speaker 1: they've had a working mother in both the way that
Speaker 1: they are then going to marry and support their partners
Speaker 1: and parents. So that like kind of like that really
Speaker 1: helping me get away from the guilt. That also I
Speaker 1: will say this to working mothers and because I'm trying
Speaker 1: to do this and it's not easy, and that's where
Speaker 1: I'm like created the game club is to try to
Speaker 1: really um, you know, push this idea is that we
Speaker 1: don't we can ask for a lot more, and we
Speaker 1: should be asking for a lot more. And it does
Speaker 1: cost corporations money and they do have a bottom line
Speaker 1: that they're going to worry about, and you know what,
Speaker 1: like they need to pay up because I don't believe
Speaker 1: we're asking for like nearly enough. You know, we need
Speaker 1: to be asking for of course equity when it comes
Speaker 1: to our paychecks, you know, and women of color are
Speaker 1: paid even less than white women. But also we need
Speaker 1: to be asking for um reasonable working hours for parents.
Speaker 1: We need to be asking about childcare. And you know,
Speaker 1: I need to be asking for longer maternity leaves. We
Speaker 1: need to be asking for fraternity leaves. So like when
Speaker 1: we say like, oh, yeah, it's so great, I got
Speaker 1: three months, it's like, let's not stop there, because three
Speaker 1: months you're still not a person. Yeah yeah, most developing
Speaker 1: countries and if you look at where we fall, it's
Speaker 1: it's just abysmal. It's like really embarrassing. I didn't get
Speaker 1: it until I got there. On when I was on
Speaker 1: the other side, when I was pregnant, I thought three
Speaker 1: months would be too much, But good lord, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm just starting to feel like myself. Just yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: if I had lived in one of those countries where
Speaker 1: it's maternity and paternity leave for a year, I think
Speaker 1: I would feel don't only very connected to my child,
Speaker 1: but also super ready to like get back out there. Well,
Speaker 1: because we don't consider it an investment in our future, right,
Speaker 1: it's considered a drain on the workforce, not as though
Speaker 1: you are. I mean, and to talk about this just
Speaker 1: like in terms of the economy, and it's really fucked up.
Speaker 1: It's like it's not considered like we're investing in our future. Um,
Speaker 1: because the workwomen do is severely undervalued, and that the
Speaker 1: caregive caregiving. And I say that for women in terms
Speaker 1: of caregiving of elders and small children. I say that
Speaker 1: about domestic workers too. It's just undervalued. I gotta go.
Speaker 1: You're amazing. That was so amazing. You gotta go to
Speaker 1: work essentially where you're going. Thank you, June, thank you
Speaker 1: for coming on. You are the loveliest. Hi, everybody, I
Speaker 1: am so excited to welcome a lovely, lovely, amazing person
Speaker 1: by the name of Janet sward Low. And excuse me, guys,
Speaker 1: but it is real early on the Katie's Crib today,
Speaker 1: it's like seven am, and Janet's already dropped her daughter
Speaker 1: off at her middle school around the corner. So we're
Speaker 1: doing this this section of Katie's Crib at seven am,
Speaker 1: when my voice is like a base. Janet, um, tell
Speaker 1: us what you do for a living? So I'm an
Speaker 1: employment attorney and I work here in Los Angeles, California,
Speaker 1: and I advise employers on how to comply with the
Speaker 1: laws that pertain to the workplace. Amazing, So can you
Speaker 1: tell us Um, what is the legal This is gonna
Speaker 1: be really fun because I think I've played a lawyer
Speaker 1: on television a bunch of times, and I just make
Speaker 1: pretend that I don't really know anything about this. What's
Speaker 1: the legal definition of maternity or family leave that? So
Speaker 1: there really isn't as far as as far as maternity
Speaker 1: leave goes. What people typically consider maternity lead is really
Speaker 1: a pregnancy disability leave. So it basically says that if
Speaker 1: somebody is disabled by pregnancy, then they're entitled to a leave.
Speaker 1: And in California we have a very specific pregnancy disability
Speaker 1: lead law, and all over the country there's the Family
Speaker 1: and Medical Leave Act, and that also covers women who
Speaker 1: are disabled by pregnancy. So that's typically what you think
Speaker 1: what I think of when I think of what is
Speaker 1: maternity lead? So does that mean? Does that mean? Okay?
Speaker 1: So obviously my brain is about to explode because you know,
Speaker 1: it's hard to like even imagine pregnancy as a disability, right,
Speaker 1: So like already my brain is like, we're are short circuiting,
Speaker 1: Like why is it called that? I don't understand? Um,
Speaker 1: because I worked up until I was I think nine
Speaker 1: anathemaspregnant or something very physically working. Um. So do you
Speaker 1: mean like if you have a pregnant See, that's like
Speaker 1: you're on bed rest, that's considered what you relieve or
Speaker 1: like No, like just the fact that you're pregnant is
Speaker 1: the disability and you get a certain amount of leave.
Speaker 1: Like so yeah, no, it's the it's the former. So
Speaker 1: if you're pregnant, at some point, you're probably you know
Speaker 1: that you're gonna and it may be that you're not
Speaker 1: disabled at all up until the time you actually deliver
Speaker 1: the child. Um. And that's very common. Typically it's really
Speaker 1: what your doctor says. UM. But it's so typically doctors
Speaker 1: will say, you know, a couple of weeks before your
Speaker 1: due date, they'll give you a note that will say this,
Speaker 1: you know, my patient is now disabled by pregnancy and
Speaker 1: can't return to work until four to six weeks after delivery. UM.
Speaker 1: The pregnancy disability can also be if somebody has severe
Speaker 1: morning sickness. UM, it could cover you if you that's
Speaker 1: really good to know because that is very debilitating to
Speaker 1: some women who are just like over the toilet for months. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: And also so if you've got a doctor a note
Speaker 1: saying my patient is severely struggling with nausea or something,
Speaker 1: then you could be covered and get compensated. There's no
Speaker 1: it's these leaves are unpaid UM. But you know, typically
Speaker 1: an employee may still have some pregnant it's some sick
Speaker 1: leave available and they can use their sick leave towards
Speaker 1: that UM and you know for things like mourning sickness.
Speaker 1: In my experience, employers aren't going to require notes for
Speaker 1: all of that UM, and sometimes they don't even count
Speaker 1: it against because there's a maximum amount of pregnancy disability
Speaker 1: leave you can get under federal law it's twelve weeks.
Speaker 1: Here in California it's four months. So most employers don't
Speaker 1: even track the times when you're when and when a
Speaker 1: pregnant woman is out due to like a pregnant mourning sickness,
Speaker 1: got it UM. But it can also cover periods after
Speaker 1: the pregnancy. So for example, if you have some postpartum
Speaker 1: depression depression, that also can be covered as part of
Speaker 1: the pregnant disability period. Wow, so good to know. So
Speaker 1: every workplace has to have an official maternity leave policy,
Speaker 1: Is that correct? UM? It depends on the size of
Speaker 1: the employer under federal law. So once you're outside of California,
Speaker 1: you're only really necessarily protected if you work at a
Speaker 1: work location where the company has fifty or more employees. Now,
Speaker 1: there's some states that also have their own laws that
Speaker 1: will cover people that work at smaller employers. And here
Speaker 1: in California, so long as you work in a place
Speaker 1: where there's five or more employees, then you're covered five
Speaker 1: or more for California, and for all states fifty or more,
Speaker 1: but could be varying existing. Okay, um, can you walk
Speaker 1: us through in Katie's crib terms? And I don't mean
Speaker 1: that to our listeners, I mean literally me, like what
Speaker 1: Family and Medical Leave Act isn't known as f m
Speaker 1: l A. Okay, can you um walk us through that
Speaker 1: and how it impacts lives of new parents or expecting parents.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. So, Actually, under the Family and Medical Leave Act,
Speaker 1: there's a provision that provides for employees to have twelve
Speaker 1: weeks off of an unpaid leave two bond with their newborn.
Speaker 1: So that's that maybe what a lot of people are
Speaker 1: thinking of in their minds when they talk about maternity leave.
Speaker 1: So this can cover fathers and mothers um and it
Speaker 1: provides again twelve weeks of unpaid leave to bond and
Speaker 1: care for your newborn. So as as soon as your
Speaker 1: child is born, then you can get twelve weeks off
Speaker 1: to care for that newborn. Would cover paternity, maternity, significant
Speaker 1: other any. Um. It depends on your state about the
Speaker 1: significant other. Um. If if they're registered domestic partners, they
Speaker 1: should be covered beyond that, Um, then it's not. Well
Speaker 1: if it's if it's the employee's child, they don't need
Speaker 1: to be you know, then they yes, right, got it? Um?
Speaker 1: What's what now that my brain is is kind of
Speaker 1: recovering from the from the pregnancy disability situation. I don't
Speaker 1: know why that's so crazy. I have such images of
Speaker 1: Carrie Washington on set being super pregnant, um, and you
Speaker 1: know her doing like amazing Livia Pope things and like
Speaker 1: being down to grab her product bag or something, and
Speaker 1: everyone in the career rushing over to help her up
Speaker 1: and her being like no, no, no, I can do
Speaker 1: this myself. I'm not disabled. Like that's just like the
Speaker 1: image that keeps coming to my mind. Um, can you
Speaker 1: tell us the difference between maternity leave and short term
Speaker 1: disability that there is a difference, so so the disability coverage,
Speaker 1: it's it's really more of like it's there's almost I
Speaker 1: believe all the states have a state disability insurance program.
Speaker 1: California certainly does, and most states have that program. And
Speaker 1: what that is is that's just a way of providing
Speaker 1: some income supplement during the period that you're out on
Speaker 1: pregnancy leave. And it varies from state to state that
Speaker 1: much that is is it indirect correlation to what you make. UM.
Speaker 1: It's very similar to like unemployment insurance. So usually it's
Speaker 1: a certain percentage of your normal compensation up to some
Speaker 1: got it and how far in advance do does one
Speaker 1: go about getting that and figuring out what that is? Like?
Speaker 1: Who do you call? So typically you would there's the
Speaker 1: Here in California, your employer would give you some information
Speaker 1: about that, UM, but you would want to go to
Speaker 1: your whatever your state. There in each state there should
Speaker 1: be some government agency that handles that. Here in California
Speaker 1: it's the Employment Development Department, and there would be something
Speaker 1: and I think you could probably wherever you are, you
Speaker 1: can google your state and then disability insurance program, and
Speaker 1: I would imagine that it would come up pretty easily.
Speaker 1: You'd find the government website that would give you information
Speaker 1: about that can lead you to some phone numbers somebody
Speaker 1: to talk to. UM is leave different if there's UM
Speaker 1: birth versus adoption or surrogacy, or like a foster care
Speaker 1: situation or someone's adopted somebody. Do they still get the
Speaker 1: twelve weeks? Like how does that work? Yeah, that would
Speaker 1: still you'd still get if you're covered if you work
Speaker 1: for an employer that's covered by the Family and Medical
Speaker 1: Leave Act UM, and there's certain requirements for the employee
Speaker 1: or receive the benefit. They have to have worked there
Speaker 1: a certain at least a year and at least one thousand,
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty hours in the last twelve months,
Speaker 1: assuming that they're eligible for it. Then that would cover
Speaker 1: UM bonding with any child that's been placed with you
Speaker 1: for whether it's adoption, whether it's foster care, or whether
Speaker 1: it's just a birth. Got it? UM? What happens if
Speaker 1: the parent right is home and is like screw this,
Speaker 1: I can't go back to work, like they you know
Speaker 1: they've decided not to return. Are there any How are
Speaker 1: they protected? Like how how? What are the penalties of that? Like,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sure that there are people that come to
Speaker 1: the end of the three months and like you said,
Speaker 1: maybe they're actually struggling with some real stuff physically, who knows,
Speaker 1: maybe mentally who knows, or what if their whole lives
Speaker 1: have just gone through like a major change and they
Speaker 1: don't want to go back to work. Like what happens.
Speaker 1: So during if somebody is out on family and medical leave,
Speaker 1: even though I mentioned that it was an unpaid leave,
Speaker 1: the employer still has to continue to provide you with
Speaker 1: group health benefits to the same extent that you are
Speaker 1: receiving them before you went out on the leave. So
Speaker 1: the what could happen possibly is is under the Family
Speaker 1: and Medical Leave Act, if you return to work from
Speaker 1: your leave and stay employed by the employer for thirty days,
Speaker 1: then the employer has the right to come after you
Speaker 1: and require you to reimburse them for the money that
Speaker 1: they spent maintaining your group health benefits. But there's an
Speaker 1: exception to that. So the exception is is if the
Speaker 1: reason you're remaining out on leave is because there's there's
Speaker 1: the recurrence of a serious health can if you have
Speaker 1: there's some kind of serious health conditions. So for example,
Speaker 1: say you're suffering from postpartum depression, that would follow it
Speaker 1: under that Um, if the child had some kind of
Speaker 1: serious illness, that would that would govern that would that
Speaker 1: would create the exception. Also, there's also a more general exception,
Speaker 1: which is if there's circumstances beyond the employee's control. So
Speaker 1: in my experience, I've never seen an employer actually three
Speaker 1: months of like you owe me this. It's like, um,
Speaker 1: can we have a soul on heart? Right? I've never
Speaker 1: seen any I've seen many situations where the employee doesn't return,
Speaker 1: but I've never seen a situation where the employer tried
Speaker 1: to recover that. Wow. Interesting, Um, in your experience, Like
Speaker 1: you said, how, um, do the laws protect new parents
Speaker 1: from being like fired? Do you know? I know that
Speaker 1: can sort of be a touchy thing for women. It's
Speaker 1: really interesting being an actor in Hollywood. Like here, I
Speaker 1: am working at Shonda Land, which is literally the greatest
Speaker 1: place you could ever be pregnant. I think my biggest
Speaker 1: mistake was that I didn't have like all of my
Speaker 1: babies and rhymes is my boss. Um. But it's bizarre
Speaker 1: that the minute and I got pregnant was the minute
Speaker 1: I in my head I said, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get fired. I mean, it's insane. How I don't
Speaker 1: know why that is culturally or has been kind of
Speaker 1: burned into my brain of like, oh, man, like you're
Speaker 1: not going to be wanted in the workplace as soon
Speaker 1: as somebody finds out you're pregnant. It's it's really bizarre. Um.
Speaker 1: And I know I'm not alone in thinking that, because
Speaker 1: my friends have had the same fears. So what are
Speaker 1: their laws to protect actually like new parents from being
Speaker 1: fired while they're on leave, Like, how do they know
Speaker 1: that their job is will be there when they get
Speaker 1: back from those twelve weeks or should they need longer?
Speaker 1: So the law the same law that entitles employees to
Speaker 1: these like family and medical leave, and in many states
Speaker 1: their their own state either equivalent to the family and
Speaker 1: Medical leave law or a separate pregnancy disability leave law. Um.
Speaker 1: These laws also provide protections against being retaliated against for
Speaker 1: exercising your right to take these leaves. So um. And
Speaker 1: there's also under federal law you can't discriminate discriminate against
Speaker 1: people because of their gender and pregnancy is considered so
Speaker 1: so there is there's a lot of protection for employees who,
Speaker 1: you know, what if they're ready to return to work
Speaker 1: after and they've you know, they haven't exceeded what they're
Speaker 1: legally entitled to as far as leave, um from being
Speaker 1: subject to being terminated? Wow, so what so someone could
Speaker 1: get somebody in t like you really shouldn't that shouldn't
Speaker 1: be a worry like being fired while on maternity lead
Speaker 1: Like there are laws and you can be protective against that. Um,
Speaker 1: when did that all come into play? Like that's been
Speaker 1: a well, the Family and Medical Leave Act, which you
Speaker 1: know we're talking about the whole country. That was actually
Speaker 1: the first bill that Bill Clinton signed when he came
Speaker 1: into office, and that was back in that that that's
Speaker 1: that Act was signed. So it's this has been the
Speaker 1: law for a long time and many states have you know,
Speaker 1: and and the gender discrimination has been around for a
Speaker 1: very long time. So since laws, I know you really
Speaker 1: specialize in California. UM, but for those listening who live
Speaker 1: in other places, what are good resources that new parents
Speaker 1: and parents to be to check out their rights? Because
Speaker 1: I have to admit, like again, being an actor, I
Speaker 1: totally dealt with unemployment and being on and off unemployment
Speaker 1: for years. It's like totally how I survived. Um, was
Speaker 1: that check for two fifty dollars every once in a
Speaker 1: while would make or break sometimes the difference like for sure, um,
Speaker 1: but it was a real I mean sometimes I thought
Speaker 1: it was a full time job, was keeping my unemployment
Speaker 1: because the times I would have to go to the
Speaker 1: unemployment office and show up and wait in line for
Speaker 1: a long time or wait on the phone for four
Speaker 1: hours or something. Is it similar when like parents, we
Speaker 1: have to check out their rights or how they get
Speaker 1: compensated or go to that go to a website and
Speaker 1: find a number to call. Is it just the most
Speaker 1: hiring process or is it pretty easy to just say
Speaker 1: I have maturity leave, I'm do around this time? How
Speaker 1: do I get paid? Like, I don't know? It seems
Speaker 1: daunting to me for some reason. So so the first
Speaker 1: place that you can that that people can go to
Speaker 1: to find out about their rights for these leaves would
Speaker 1: be a starting point would be the the U S
Speaker 1: Department of Labour's website because that's where the that's where
Speaker 1: they're enforcing the Family and Medical Leave Act UM. And
Speaker 1: then the other places you know, again it would just
Speaker 1: be googling, you know, that's probably the easiest way to
Speaker 1: find it. UM you know, state disability or you can
Speaker 1: look for you know, leave, family and medical leave, pregnancy leave,
Speaker 1: and UM and then when you after you do search
Speaker 1: go to government websites and for information UM as far
Speaker 1: as how you know logistically to do that. In California,
Speaker 1: it seems to me that those days, I don't know
Speaker 1: about unemployment insurance. But when I know, I personally when
Speaker 1: I went out on my pregnancy leave, UM, I everything
Speaker 1: was just done through the mail. UM. Now it's probably
Speaker 1: all on the on the internet on the right, because
Speaker 1: I definitely didn't go in anywhere to fill out any
Speaker 1: forms for ability during through the male Holy crap, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: I mean my daughter is thirteen now, so it's UM so.
Speaker 1: And then you know in some states, you know in California,
Speaker 1: during the bonding leave portion, you know, after the pregnancy
Speaker 1: disability is over and you're just taken time off to
Speaker 1: bond with your child. UM, we have also something sort
Speaker 1: of like unemployment where the state you are also getting
Speaker 1: some income supplement during that period of time. So people
Speaker 1: out of check and see if in their states they
Speaker 1: also provide some kind of state UM income, some sort
Speaker 1: of supplement that you can get weekly or whatever exactly
Speaker 1: during the time that you're taking off to bond with
Speaker 1: a newborn. It really sounds like this is such important
Speaker 1: work that women and their partners really need to do
Speaker 1: before before they give birth, you know, like a couple
Speaker 1: of months before, really make sure they've covered their bases.
Speaker 1: And as much as a pain that this googling might be,
Speaker 1: it might be something on your list that you push
Speaker 1: off until the end. In the end, and then I'm
Speaker 1: speaking for myself, that would totally have been how I
Speaker 1: dealt with it. But you really gotta put in the
Speaker 1: time and and like make sure you get what you do,
Speaker 1: you know, get what you can get. Yeah. See, your
Speaker 1: employer is is also a good place to start because
Speaker 1: they have been through it maybe before, especially if you're
Speaker 1: at a company or Yeah, and there's certain forms that
Speaker 1: they're supposed to give you which give you guidance on
Speaker 1: how to file claims and so forth. Got it, and
Speaker 1: then their policies. It's so crazy that it's that it's
Speaker 1: that it's twelve weeks. I mean, I don't know, did
Speaker 1: you have any idea why that number was picked or
Speaker 1: why why it's three months? No, I do not know why.
Speaker 1: But in you know, some like in California, if you
Speaker 1: combine your pregnancy leave with your three months of bonding leave.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're if there's if you have a
Speaker 1: very complicated pregnancy, you can you can get a total
Speaker 1: of seven months. Actually, so yeah, the four months for
Speaker 1: pregnancy leave and then followed by twelve weeks after the
Speaker 1: child was born, and you're no longer disabled. Oh I
Speaker 1: wish that was for every reason, but it's not automatic. Again, No,
Speaker 1: you got it, You got it. You gotta really, you know,
Speaker 1: do your research and your due diligence and get yeah,
Speaker 1: and and have a doctor say you're actually disabled for
Speaker 1: four months then you need this. Well yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: so nice to know that that's even there for I mean,
Speaker 1: I had a very very normal labor and pregnancy, um no,
Speaker 1: you know, major alarming things, and I mean twelve weeks
Speaker 1: was still not enough, so you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: I just I really felt Adam always talks about his
Speaker 1: paternity leave and it was such a beautiful time with
Speaker 1: him and he and he because my husband also took
Speaker 1: off three months, um and it was very important to him,
Speaker 1: which I love that about him. But he really felt
Speaker 1: he loved those twelve weeks, and I did not. I
Speaker 1: thought those twelve weeks were completely not a bonding time
Speaker 1: with my son at all. It was like a like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I've my body has been completely blown
Speaker 1: out and I don't know who I am. And so
Speaker 1: I really felt like those twelve weeks were just they're
Speaker 1: such a fog to me, Like it's not like, oh,
Speaker 1: I bonded so closely to my kid. I mean I fail,
Speaker 1: like the bonding for me really happened later. Those twelve
Speaker 1: weeks were just a fog of just just like looking
Speaker 1: at my body and and not knowing what was going
Speaker 1: on and figuring out breastfeeding and you know, just taking
Speaker 1: a fifteen minute shower staring at the tile wall and
Speaker 1: hoping that the water didn't hit my bools because they
Speaker 1: heard so bad. So like that's what the twelve weeks
Speaker 1: for me. So I can't even you know, you hear
Speaker 1: about these countries that have like a year, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's just you will never go to a
Speaker 1: place like that, right, Like that's just you. You would
Speaker 1: be surprised. Yeah, But I hear about these Nordic glands
Speaker 1: that sound just like utopia, just like maternity and fraternity
Speaker 1: a year where you're so bonded with your baby, not America,
Speaker 1: not here. But um, but it's great that we get Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's better than what we had before, which was what
Speaker 1: was it before? Before? You know, outside of California, there
Speaker 1: was really no protectively for to care, just to bond
Speaker 1: for just the Yeah, like people were going back to
Speaker 1: work like a week or two light yeah right once
Speaker 1: they're once they were no longer disabled. Yeah, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I mean I would have lost my mind. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: already lost my mind I was home. Well, some employers
Speaker 1: probably had more generous policies than what the what the
Speaker 1: law required, right, but the fact that the law didn't
Speaker 1: require goshu once parents returned to work, is there? Um?
Speaker 1: Is there some sort of bare minimum that employers are
Speaker 1: legally obligated to provide? Like do employers have to provide
Speaker 1: like a breast milk? Like you get a break for
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, or let's say somebody has to pump during
Speaker 1: a conference meeting or something like how our employers supposed
Speaker 1: to be flexible with an incoming mom when she comes
Speaker 1: back to work. So that's going to depend that's going
Speaker 1: to vary state by state. There's really nothing under federal
Speaker 1: law that would you know, cover everybody in the whole country. Um.
Speaker 1: Here in California, we have a requirement that an employer
Speaker 1: reasonably has has to reasonably accommodate women who are needing
Speaker 1: to pump um, and we have there's some special rules
Speaker 1: about providing them a place where they can pump privately.
Speaker 1: That's something other than the bathroom stall. So there, So
Speaker 1: we're lucky here in California. UM. But outside of California,
Speaker 1: you really need to check looking to do some research
Speaker 1: and find out what what your state offers as far
Speaker 1: as protection, if anything. And then that's another good conversation
Speaker 1: to have with your employer before you come back to
Speaker 1: work if you know that you are going to be
Speaker 1: pumping um, to to talk to your employer about that
Speaker 1: and find out, you know how that's gonna what kind
Speaker 1: of arrangements can be made. Wow, I hear these things
Speaker 1: that I'm like, okay, like pumpings loud. But you know
Speaker 1: I was so again, like working in Shawn the Land,
Speaker 1: It's like oh no, no, Like my they gave me
Speaker 1: another side of my trailer that my baby lived in
Speaker 1: and then I went back to my trailer every three
Speaker 1: hours in breastbed. Yeah, I mean that is like and
Speaker 1: then the A. D s would knock on my trailer
Speaker 1: and be like you think you're done? You know, it's
Speaker 1: so kind and lovely, like how much longer? And I'd
Speaker 1: be like, I don't know, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: You and the whole crew of like, I don't know
Speaker 1: how many people it is on your people just waiting
Speaker 1: for me to be done. And thank God for trailblazers
Speaker 1: like Carrie Washington who came before me and just really
Speaker 1: set that precedent on the scandal set specifically that that
Speaker 1: was something to not feel bad about. And Shonda was like, I,
Speaker 1: oh god. I remember showing up at work when I
Speaker 1: told our line producer that I was pregnant, and my
Speaker 1: trailer had a huge deck and stairs built in front
Speaker 1: of it that Shanda had built, um had our carpentry
Speaker 1: department built because they didn't even want me going up
Speaker 1: and down trailer stairs pregnant because they didn't think it
Speaker 1: was safe. And you were like, I took a photo
Speaker 1: of it, and I emailed into Shaunda and I was like,
Speaker 1: look what I got. I'm gonna put flowers on It's
Speaker 1: like my deck if I wasn't pregnant, Like where you
Speaker 1: would smoke cigarettes in your twenties or whatever. And she
Speaker 1: was like, she just wrote back matriarchy with a ton
Speaker 1: of exclamation points. Um, have you seen personally cases of
Speaker 1: harassment or discrimination against new parents? Have you seen that?
Speaker 1: I haven't. Really I haven't because I do defend lawsuits
Speaker 1: and I haven't seen those kinds of claims. Doesn't mean
Speaker 1: they don't exist. They just haven't passed by me, got it. Um,
Speaker 1: But I'm sure that you know that people have brought
Speaker 1: these claims, probably you know, the the angle that I
Speaker 1: would imagine would probably be more like, you know, I
Speaker 1: took my leave and ever since I came back, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been mistreated and I'm being retaliated against for having
Speaker 1: a baby. Yeah. So you counsel employers on developing because
Speaker 1: you're on the other side, you counsel employers on how
Speaker 1: to have good workplace, how to avoid those types, how
Speaker 1: to avoid those types of lawsuits. Um, what have you seen? Like?
Speaker 1: What what are the trends lately? Like I know you
Speaker 1: mentioned that before there was I mean, California seems to
Speaker 1: have always been good. Yeah, so the trends that I'm
Speaker 1: seeing are and you know, California is such a is
Speaker 1: really a trend setter and a lot of this. You know, California,
Speaker 1: you will start, Yeah, California will start on some of
Speaker 1: these new laws, and then you'll see progressively, yea trickle
Speaker 1: maybe to Washington, Oregon, some of the uh, some of
Speaker 1: the other states. Um. But for example, one one recent
Speaker 1: law that just came into effect this year is that
Speaker 1: we now have in California, if you work for an employer,
Speaker 1: instead of having to work for an employer that has
Speaker 1: fifty or more employees you know within the area where
Speaker 1: you work, now it's they've reduced it. So if you
Speaker 1: if there's twenty, they're covered. So that's then yeah, that
Speaker 1: was that's a real benefit to people that work at
Speaker 1: smaller companies. So that's something that I would expect to
Speaker 1: start seeing in some other states this number that maybe
Speaker 1: people will shift lower it. Well, I don't I wouldn't
Speaker 1: expect that from our federal government, but from the local governments. Um,
Speaker 1: you might be this your state local You could begin
Speaker 1: to see more of that. Are there any other trends
Speaker 1: you're seeing happening? Like you said, We're not going to
Speaker 1: be sitting here in a year from now saying we
Speaker 1: got a year maternity. I don't. I don't envision that.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I'm seeing is is that more
Speaker 1: and more employers are just adopting policies that are more
Speaker 1: generous than what the law requires. You know, it may
Speaker 1: be that they're you know, right now, these these leaves
Speaker 1: by law only half they don't have to be paid.
Speaker 1: That I'm seeing more and more employers starting to supplement
Speaker 1: um the income that the employee receives through like state
Speaker 1: disability and and coordinating the state disability and then they
Speaker 1: will pay the difference between so that their employees actually
Speaker 1: earning the same that they were earning before. That would
Speaker 1: be great. Yeah, that's a nice benefit, and I'm seeing
Speaker 1: that more and more. UM. So that's you know, that's
Speaker 1: another positive thing that we're seeing for employees in the workplace. UM.
Speaker 1: What are your tips that you have, Janet, are there
Speaker 1: any tips for new parents returning to work? Like what
Speaker 1: all of this stuff? What could they do to prepare
Speaker 1: before coming back to work. So one of the things is,
Speaker 1: you know, it would certainly be we talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: having discussions with your employer about what your needs might
Speaker 1: be as far as pumping UM and then The other
Speaker 1: thing is is that you know you want to make
Speaker 1: sure that you if you're significant other, the other parent
Speaker 1: isn't going to be home caring for your child, that
Speaker 1: you make arrangements obviously for for for the right kind
Speaker 1: of childcare that's gonna that you're going to use. Um.
Speaker 1: And you also need to make sure that you now
Speaker 1: you're going to be if you hire a nanny, you're
Speaker 1: now going to be an employer, and you want to
Speaker 1: make sure that you're familiar with your obligations as an
Speaker 1: employer towards your nanny. Film me, my gosh, I've never
Speaker 1: felt like more of an adult than when then, because
Speaker 1: I still am like I'm a parent, but I never
Speaker 1: felt more than a more like an adult when Adam
Speaker 1: and I have a nighttime work event or something and
Speaker 1: we come home and like pay the babysitter, because I
Speaker 1: was a babysitter for so long. It's bizarre to me
Speaker 1: that I even have funds to pay somebody like, and
Speaker 1: that I was just out and someone else like. It
Speaker 1: just feels super adult and crazy that I have someone
Speaker 1: that works for me, that helps me care for my child,
Speaker 1: and and there's and and it takes some time to
Speaker 1: set everything up because you need to have like a
Speaker 1: state I am taxpayer idea. Never, yeah, you gotta so.
Speaker 1: You you definitely want to start, you know, all that
Speaker 1: stuff early on, you know, shortly after the baby is born,
Speaker 1: and start looking and trying to get recommendations for for
Speaker 1: caretakers of course, and then backups also, um, depending upon
Speaker 1: who your employer is. You know, some employers are you
Speaker 1: really going to expect you to be you know back
Speaker 1: you know, so if the baby is sick for the
Speaker 1: first time, or the nanny excuse me or sick, or
Speaker 1: daycare is closed for the day or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you have to figure out. Yeah, have have some backup.
Speaker 1: What are your tips? Do you give your employers how
Speaker 1: to welcome back a coworker to the office, Like is
Speaker 1: there something that you know? Did They're like, this is
Speaker 1: your pumping room, Like what are the Well that's one
Speaker 1: thing to do would be to you know, orient them
Speaker 1: to how things are going to work logistically if there's pumping,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a refrigerator, you know. I know, I
Speaker 1: just learned this. I pumped also at work, but I
Speaker 1: don't remember having to deal with this. But apparently if
Speaker 1: you because after twelve weeks and never still a fog.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. But now I definitely didn't have a there
Speaker 1: was no refrigerator for me to put my whole pump in.
Speaker 1: But we have an attorney who just came back from
Speaker 1: a pregnancy leave not long ago, and she has there's
Speaker 1: a refrigerator, so she can she puts the whole pump
Speaker 1: in the refrigerator and then you don't have to clean it.
Speaker 1: So I mean, just to have discussions with the with
Speaker 1: the employee about what their needs are in that regard.
Speaker 1: And then what I would say is is that you really,
Speaker 1: as an employer, you really want to treat everyone coming
Speaker 1: back from pregnancy leave as if they're your best employee. UM.
Speaker 1: And you want to do that because you know it's
Speaker 1: it's good because it's it's nice, it's compassionate, and it
Speaker 1: also is good because you want to make sure that
Speaker 1: you're kind of treating people the same. And you want
Speaker 1: to if you've got some great employee that you want
Speaker 1: them to stay with you and be an employer that
Speaker 1: is you know, welcoming and accommodating of mothers. Um. You
Speaker 1: want to you want to show them some compassion. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is like you know before we went started recording,
Speaker 1: we were talking about, you know, the feeling when a
Speaker 1: new mother is, you know, driving back to work the
Speaker 1: first day, and I remember just the tears streaming down
Speaker 1: like face thinking, you know not you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: putting your child in the hands of someone you hardly know,
Speaker 1: and this is the most precious thing you've ever had
Speaker 1: in your whole life. That's right. It's very difficult time
Speaker 1: for some mothers, not all. And just to try to
Speaker 1: you know, give a little slack um in the initial
Speaker 1: period and you get back, you do, but you do,
Speaker 1: but it is just the beginning that is a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know, you've had an intense intense identity shift, um,
Speaker 1: an intense intense hormonal shift, and you know, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think as compassionate and it will you do get through it,
Speaker 1: and you do come on the other side, and it
Speaker 1: does you end up able to kind of handle it on.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are just so many women I look
Speaker 1: up to you now, included Janet, that that really work
Speaker 1: and you are also mom and you are doing both,
Speaker 1: that's right, um. And whereas in these these women are
Speaker 1: such a valuable part of the workforce. If you yeah,
Speaker 1: if you shut him down just because you know they're
Speaker 1: having a difficult couple of months after having a child.
Speaker 1: You're losing out on a on azing relationship and amazing
Speaker 1: that's right, that's right, Mike, drop on that. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being your well, you appreciate it. Thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much for listening to Katie's Crib. Make
Speaker 1: sure you subscribe to the podcast and tell your friends.
Speaker 1: And also if you go to the website shawna Land
Speaker 1: dot com and check out the crib notes, you can
Speaker 1: see a bunch of the different topics we discussed in
Speaker 1: today's episode. Get more info. So check out shawna Land
Speaker 1: dot com and subscribe to Katie's Crib. Wat the Most
Speaker 1: Starts to Most st