1 00:00:15,396 --> 00:00:24,236 Speaker 1: Pushkin. There's a place in our world where the doubtful 2 00:00:24,276 --> 00:00:31,516 Speaker 1: things go, a morgue of fakes, hoaxes, and frauds. File 3 00:00:31,596 --> 00:00:38,156 Speaker 1: drawers crammed with folders, the Federal Bureau of Investigation classified. 4 00:00:39,956 --> 00:00:44,276 Speaker 1: There must be a thousand pages here, the treason files. 5 00:00:45,036 --> 00:00:48,036 Speaker 1: It's like, not the X files, it's the T files. 6 00:00:49,556 --> 00:00:53,596 Speaker 1: This place, this vault of suspicious claims and dubious evidence, 7 00:00:54,316 --> 00:00:58,036 Speaker 1: lies half hidden in the shadow of doubt, half lost 8 00:00:58,316 --> 00:01:01,916 Speaker 1: in a time between now and then. The sign on 9 00:01:01,956 --> 00:01:07,156 Speaker 1: the door reads the last Archive. The first thing I 10 00:01:07,236 --> 00:01:09,036 Speaker 1: usually do when I come in here is switch on 11 00:01:09,196 --> 00:01:12,716 Speaker 1: this old radio and turn the dial, this time to 12 00:01:12,796 --> 00:01:24,636 Speaker 1: the year nineteen forty four. This is Berlin, Calle Blon 13 00:01:24,716 --> 00:01:30,316 Speaker 1: call the American Mothers, as from some lass, And I'd 14 00:01:30,316 --> 00:01:33,556 Speaker 1: just like to say, girl from the Lion call. If 15 00:01:33,596 --> 00:01:36,436 Speaker 1: I used to listen a lot of calls it going 16 00:01:36,516 --> 00:01:41,116 Speaker 1: used to listen in. The tape is old and wobbly 17 00:01:41,316 --> 00:01:44,556 Speaker 1: and raspy. It can be hard to make out, but 18 00:01:44,716 --> 00:01:46,796 Speaker 1: what you're hearing is the voice of an American woman 19 00:01:46,996 --> 00:01:50,116 Speaker 1: who's working for Nazi Germany. Since the middle of the 20 00:01:50,236 --> 00:01:54,156 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, Germany had been broadcasting via shortwave radio to Africa, 21 00:01:54,276 --> 00:01:58,156 Speaker 1: Latin America, the Far East, Southeast Asia, Indonesia, and Australia, 22 00:01:58,836 --> 00:02:01,356 Speaker 1: but it's broadcast to the United States outnumbered all of 23 00:02:01,396 --> 00:02:05,196 Speaker 1: its other programs by far. These broadcasts reported on a 24 00:02:05,236 --> 00:02:10,476 Speaker 1: supposed communist Jewish conspiracy newspapers to to calling these broadcasts 25 00:02:10,756 --> 00:02:14,596 Speaker 1: fake news. That's where the expression comes from, and this 26 00:02:14,796 --> 00:02:19,276 Speaker 1: is what it sounds like. I'm on the side. I'm 27 00:02:19,396 --> 00:02:21,796 Speaker 1: not on the side of Rosabel and his two weak 28 00:02:21,876 --> 00:02:25,756 Speaker 1: friends and two friends, because I've came back up to 29 00:02:25,876 --> 00:02:34,156 Speaker 1: be a one and assistent American girl. This broadcaster Americans 30 00:02:34,236 --> 00:02:38,316 Speaker 1: called her Axis Sally. She was trying to destroy American morale, 31 00:02:38,436 --> 00:02:40,796 Speaker 1: trying to convince Americans that the Allies were going to 32 00:02:40,916 --> 00:02:43,356 Speaker 1: lose the war, trying to get Americans to doubt the 33 00:02:43,476 --> 00:02:46,756 Speaker 1: real news that they heard on American radio. But Access 34 00:02:46,796 --> 00:02:50,916 Speaker 1: Sally she was an American too, an American in Berlin. 35 00:02:52,836 --> 00:02:55,236 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Last Archive. This show about how we 36 00:02:55,356 --> 00:02:57,836 Speaker 1: know what we know and why it seems lately because 37 00:02:57,876 --> 00:03:01,476 Speaker 1: if we don't know anything at all. I'm Jillipoor. This season, 38 00:03:01,716 --> 00:03:04,796 Speaker 1: I'm trying to trace the history of doubt. We talk 39 00:03:04,796 --> 00:03:07,516 Speaker 1: a lot these days about all the white nationalist propaganda 40 00:03:07,596 --> 00:03:12,156 Speaker 1: on the Internet, trolls memes neo Nazis. The founder of 41 00:03:12,276 --> 00:03:15,076 Speaker 1: a neo Nazi website is facing a lawsuit for allegedly 42 00:03:15,156 --> 00:03:18,996 Speaker 1: targeting a Jewish woman in Montana with a quote troll storm. 43 00:03:20,076 --> 00:03:22,236 Speaker 1: There are lots of reasons to worry today about how 44 00:03:22,276 --> 00:03:25,076 Speaker 1: this stuff spreads and what it does. But I'm a historian, 45 00:03:25,356 --> 00:03:27,756 Speaker 1: so I thought it might be worth asking, not about 46 00:03:27,756 --> 00:03:31,876 Speaker 1: the neo Nazis, but about the actual Nazis. What did 47 00:03:31,956 --> 00:03:35,676 Speaker 1: their troll storms sound like? They used a different technology, 48 00:03:36,196 --> 00:03:40,316 Speaker 1: not the ethernet, but the airwaves. So this episode Nazi 49 00:03:40,516 --> 00:03:43,476 Speaker 1: radio propaganda, and I have to warn you some of 50 00:03:43,476 --> 00:03:45,716 Speaker 1: the language you're going to hear is explicit and disturbing. 51 00:03:46,036 --> 00:03:50,236 Speaker 1: I mean, it's Nazi radio. Still, I think it's really 52 00:03:50,316 --> 00:03:59,196 Speaker 1: important because her Gamoni with los atamaticis about pads. I'm 53 00:03:59,276 --> 00:04:03,876 Speaker 1: staying off here and having them to accustops. I want 54 00:04:03,956 --> 00:04:07,836 Speaker 1: the week. The Voice of Access ally came broadcast by 55 00:04:07,876 --> 00:04:13,156 Speaker 1: shortwave radio into American homes. Here she was addressing herself 56 00:04:13,236 --> 00:04:17,436 Speaker 1: to American women, mothers, wives, girlfriends. Everything she said was 57 00:04:17,516 --> 00:04:21,796 Speaker 1: animated by anti Semitism, hatred, and venom deception, and then 58 00:04:21,956 --> 00:04:25,876 Speaker 1: in between the racist ranting, she'd play these jaunty little jingles. 59 00:04:33,516 --> 00:04:35,396 Speaker 1: The tape's so hard to make out because of how 60 00:04:35,476 --> 00:04:39,996 Speaker 1: it got recorded in the first place. During the war, 61 00:04:40,236 --> 00:04:43,756 Speaker 1: a federal government listening post in Maryland staffed twenty four 62 00:04:43,796 --> 00:04:48,156 Speaker 1: hours a day tuned in to Radio Berlin. Engineers there 63 00:04:48,276 --> 00:04:51,716 Speaker 1: recorded as best they could whatever broadcast they could catch, 64 00:04:52,436 --> 00:04:54,996 Speaker 1: and then after the war ended, the Justice Department thought 65 00:04:55,036 --> 00:04:57,316 Speaker 1: about whether it might be possible to put access Sally 66 00:04:57,396 --> 00:05:01,796 Speaker 1: on trial for these recordings. I gonna say my country 67 00:05:02,156 --> 00:05:07,876 Speaker 1: right for ham No Bill, that's sentimentality, But I can 68 00:05:08,116 --> 00:05:12,996 Speaker 1: not play by country. I love a manager, but I 69 00:05:14,236 --> 00:05:17,796 Speaker 1: Prontada and all of his tips boyfriends who have thrown 70 00:05:17,836 --> 00:05:29,516 Speaker 1: up into the cremdel good t Look. I just as 71 00:05:29,556 --> 00:05:33,996 Speaker 1: soon forget this lady, good night, crazy lady. But this episode, 72 00:05:34,076 --> 00:05:36,196 Speaker 1: I'm going to play more of this dreck because as 73 00:05:36,276 --> 00:05:39,596 Speaker 1: bad as it is, understanding it still requires what literary 74 00:05:39,636 --> 00:05:43,636 Speaker 1: scholars call a close reading, the way you'd read say 75 00:05:43,836 --> 00:05:50,876 Speaker 1: something completely different a very good poem. Propaganda hijacks language 76 00:05:51,076 --> 00:05:53,516 Speaker 1: and puts it into the service of the state. The 77 00:05:53,596 --> 00:05:57,116 Speaker 1: opposite of propaganda is poetry, which puts language in the 78 00:05:57,156 --> 00:06:00,636 Speaker 1: service of humanity. A really good poem is a lot 79 00:06:00,716 --> 00:06:04,316 Speaker 1: like that badass sticker on Woody Guthrie's guitar. This machine 80 00:06:04,436 --> 00:06:09,356 Speaker 1: kills fascists, This poem kills propaganda. I like to think 81 00:06:09,916 --> 00:06:13,636 Speaker 1: poetry eats propaganda for breakfasts and then spits out the bones. 82 00:06:14,876 --> 00:06:20,396 Speaker 1: Words in Time, bewildered with the broken tongue of wakened 83 00:06:20,516 --> 00:06:25,036 Speaker 1: angels in our sleep. That's the American Archibald McLeish reading 84 00:06:25,076 --> 00:06:29,756 Speaker 1: his post war poem Words in Time. McLeish was a poet, 85 00:06:30,116 --> 00:06:32,516 Speaker 1: but he was also, during the Second World War, the 86 00:06:32,636 --> 00:06:37,396 Speaker 1: US government official charged with countering German propaganda. There is 87 00:06:37,436 --> 00:06:41,996 Speaker 1: a moment when we lie bewildered, wakened out of sleep, 88 00:06:42,396 --> 00:06:48,236 Speaker 1: when light and sound and all reply that moment time 89 00:06:48,436 --> 00:06:54,636 Speaker 1: must tame and keep. McLeish, as a young man, had 90 00:06:54,716 --> 00:06:57,676 Speaker 1: fought in the First World War. His poems about that 91 00:06:57,836 --> 00:07:03,236 Speaker 1: war chronicle its atrocities and most of all, its meaninglessness. 92 00:07:04,556 --> 00:07:06,956 Speaker 1: If it was written at the time four or five 93 00:07:07,076 --> 00:07:10,316 Speaker 1: years after the First World War, when it began to 94 00:07:10,476 --> 00:07:13,636 Speaker 1: dawn on some of us who had not been intelligent 95 00:07:13,796 --> 00:07:17,276 Speaker 1: enough to have it dawn on us earlier, that that 96 00:07:17,436 --> 00:07:22,756 Speaker 1: war had been misfought and for nothing, and that those 97 00:07:22,796 --> 00:07:26,876 Speaker 1: who had died in it had died pretty much for nothing. 98 00:07:28,636 --> 00:07:33,116 Speaker 1: That war, the First World War, haunted McLeish. The American 99 00:07:33,156 --> 00:07:35,556 Speaker 1: public hadn't wanted to get involved in the war in Europe, 100 00:07:35,916 --> 00:07:38,676 Speaker 1: and once the US got in, Woodrow Wilson had to 101 00:07:38,796 --> 00:07:42,236 Speaker 1: establish a thing called the Committee on Public Information, which 102 00:07:42,316 --> 00:07:44,716 Speaker 1: was charged with whipping up a frenzy for the war. 103 00:07:46,956 --> 00:07:50,356 Speaker 1: It used the tools of mass advertising and mass communication. 104 00:07:51,116 --> 00:07:53,996 Speaker 1: It lied a lot. After the war. One guy wrote 105 00:07:53,996 --> 00:07:57,116 Speaker 1: a book about it. All was called Falsehood in Wartime. 106 00:07:57,756 --> 00:08:00,356 Speaker 1: He argued, there must have been more deliberate lying in 107 00:08:00,436 --> 00:08:03,356 Speaker 1: the world from nineteen fourteen to nineteen eighteen than in 108 00:08:03,436 --> 00:08:06,516 Speaker 1: any other period of the world's history. That might even 109 00:08:06,556 --> 00:08:08,996 Speaker 1: be right. There was so much lying in the First 110 00:08:09,196 --> 00:08:11,996 Speaker 1: World War that lying as a deliberate, well funded, state 111 00:08:12,076 --> 00:08:16,156 Speaker 1: sponsored campaign got another name. People started calling it propaganda. 112 00:08:17,036 --> 00:08:20,036 Speaker 1: McLeish he was sick of that stuff. He'd lost his 113 00:08:20,156 --> 00:08:22,796 Speaker 1: brother in the war. He stood in the field and 114 00:08:22,956 --> 00:08:26,956 Speaker 1: watched his friends fall one by one. So he wrote 115 00:08:27,036 --> 00:08:34,196 Speaker 1: poems that told the truth the disastrous war, and crossed 116 00:08:34,316 --> 00:08:38,676 Speaker 1: the dark defile at last, and found at Roncevaux upon 117 00:08:38,756 --> 00:08:43,076 Speaker 1: the darkening plain, the dead against the dead, dunned on 118 00:08:43,156 --> 00:08:53,396 Speaker 1: the silent ground, the silent slain. McLeish, after he came 119 00:08:53,396 --> 00:08:56,036 Speaker 1: back from the First World War, worked as a reporter 120 00:08:56,156 --> 00:08:59,756 Speaker 1: for Henry Luce, who'd founded Time magazine in nineteen twenty three. 121 00:09:00,676 --> 00:09:03,716 Speaker 1: Luce had wanted to call the magazine simply facts, because 122 00:09:03,796 --> 00:09:05,876 Speaker 1: Luce had fought in that War of lies two and 123 00:09:06,076 --> 00:09:09,556 Speaker 1: like mc leish, he was sick of it. Mcle and 124 00:09:09,676 --> 00:09:12,036 Speaker 1: all these other veterans of the war who became journalists, 125 00:09:12,436 --> 00:09:15,636 Speaker 1: they brought home a passion for truth and clarity and 126 00:09:15,796 --> 00:09:20,196 Speaker 1: stark description. They brought it into their writing. McLeish wrote 127 00:09:20,236 --> 00:09:23,796 Speaker 1: for Loose's magazines, and then he also wrote poems and plays. 128 00:09:24,156 --> 00:09:26,636 Speaker 1: He became one of the nation's best known writers, with 129 00:09:26,756 --> 00:09:30,876 Speaker 1: a deep commitment to public service. Then, in nineteen thirty nine, 130 00:09:31,156 --> 00:09:35,516 Speaker 1: FDR appointed him Librarian of Congress, the keeper of the Keys, 131 00:09:35,996 --> 00:09:40,156 Speaker 1: the man who opens the gate to knowledge, the last Archivist. 132 00:09:43,196 --> 00:09:46,676 Speaker 1: The year McLeish accepted that appointment, the Second World War began, 133 00:09:47,236 --> 00:09:49,716 Speaker 1: a war that would eventually take the lives of over 134 00:09:49,836 --> 00:09:55,156 Speaker 1: sixty million people. By now, propaganda had gotten a lot 135 00:09:55,236 --> 00:09:59,956 Speaker 1: more sophisticated, and it got a new name, psychological warfare. 136 00:10:01,436 --> 00:10:04,716 Speaker 1: Americans came to believe that the Germans were particularly good 137 00:10:04,756 --> 00:10:08,556 Speaker 1: at it, deviously good, and that in top secret psychological 138 00:10:08,636 --> 00:10:11,796 Speaker 1: laboratory worries, they were perfecting methods more dangerous than the 139 00:10:11,876 --> 00:10:16,116 Speaker 1: most potent bomb. One American journalist wrote a book about it, 140 00:10:16,236 --> 00:10:20,196 Speaker 1: called The Strategy of Terror. He said that the Germans 141 00:10:20,236 --> 00:10:23,556 Speaker 1: had defeated the French before even a single German soldier 142 00:10:23,596 --> 00:10:26,396 Speaker 1: had entered France by way of an inner front of 143 00:10:26,516 --> 00:10:30,876 Speaker 1: the mind. Do you wonder what Hitler will do next? 144 00:10:30,996 --> 00:10:33,916 Speaker 1: More often than you wonder what America will do next? 145 00:10:34,116 --> 00:10:37,036 Speaker 1: Do you sit up before the eleven o'clock news broadcast? 146 00:10:37,516 --> 00:10:41,276 Speaker 1: Do the headlines get you down? In nineteen forty, when 147 00:10:41,316 --> 00:10:44,156 Speaker 1: The Strategy of Terror came out, the book's publisher took 148 00:10:44,196 --> 00:10:47,156 Speaker 1: up a splashy ad in The New York Times asking 149 00:10:47,196 --> 00:10:50,876 Speaker 1: Americans to examine their own news consumption. If your answer 150 00:10:50,996 --> 00:10:54,716 Speaker 1: to these three questions is yes, then the psychological barrage 151 00:10:55,076 --> 00:10:59,796 Speaker 1: has reached you. The only defense is understanding. The Strategy 152 00:10:59,876 --> 00:11:08,756 Speaker 1: of Terror will give you this understanding. The publication of 153 00:11:08,796 --> 00:11:12,196 Speaker 1: the Strategy of Terror stirred up a nationwide panic about 154 00:11:12,276 --> 00:11:16,356 Speaker 1: Nazi propaganda coming across the ocean on shortwave radio. But 155 00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:20,076 Speaker 1: did the Nazi strategy of terror really work. The director 156 00:11:20,156 --> 00:11:22,956 Speaker 1: of the radio program at the University of Chicago was 157 00:11:23,076 --> 00:11:27,596 Speaker 1: skeptical radio is a secret weapon. He said, the secret 158 00:11:27,756 --> 00:11:31,196 Speaker 1: is how to use it as a weapon. But the 159 00:11:31,276 --> 00:11:35,556 Speaker 1: alarm about German psychological warfare had achieved its purpose. It 160 00:11:35,636 --> 00:11:37,996 Speaker 1: convinced a lot of Americans that even though the Germans 161 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:43,756 Speaker 1: were an ocean away, they had already invaded the United States. Today, 162 00:11:43,796 --> 00:11:46,156 Speaker 1: we call this sort of thing a perception hack. Like 163 00:11:46,356 --> 00:11:48,636 Speaker 1: with the election of twenty twenty, Russia didn't need to 164 00:11:48,716 --> 00:11:51,516 Speaker 1: hack our entire election system. They just needed to scare 165 00:11:51,516 --> 00:11:55,156 Speaker 1: Americans into thinking that they could. The United States is 166 00:11:55,236 --> 00:11:58,836 Speaker 1: now subject to a total barrage of the Nazi strategy 167 00:11:58,996 --> 00:12:04,316 Speaker 1: of terror. That's Archibald McLeish again, Okay, except this time 168 00:12:04,396 --> 00:12:06,716 Speaker 1: it's our actor reading what McLeish wrote about all this. 169 00:12:07,436 --> 00:12:10,836 Speaker 1: He'd been Librarian of Congress, but FDR put mclesian charge 170 00:12:10,876 --> 00:12:14,956 Speaker 1: of the Office of Facts and Figures, America's own propaganda operation. 171 00:12:15,956 --> 00:12:18,236 Speaker 1: As it happened before the First World War, a lot 172 00:12:18,276 --> 00:12:20,196 Speaker 1: of Americans didn't want to have anything to do with 173 00:12:20,316 --> 00:12:24,316 Speaker 1: this new war in Europe. They were isolationists. Mcleishi and 174 00:12:24,396 --> 00:12:27,996 Speaker 1: FDR were interventionists and they were trying to convince Americans 175 00:12:28,156 --> 00:12:30,796 Speaker 1: that they were already involved in the war because they 176 00:12:30,836 --> 00:12:35,316 Speaker 1: were being attacked psychologically by way of the airwaves. Hitler 177 00:12:35,436 --> 00:12:39,196 Speaker 1: thinks Americans are suckers. By the very vastness of his 178 00:12:39,396 --> 00:12:43,196 Speaker 1: program of lies, he hopes to frighten us into believing 179 00:12:43,236 --> 00:12:48,996 Speaker 1: that the Nazis are invincible. Mcleshi here was describing exactly 180 00:12:49,076 --> 00:12:51,756 Speaker 1: what Accessali was trying to do with her radio program, 181 00:12:52,236 --> 00:13:02,916 Speaker 1: frightening Americans into believing that the Nazis are invincible. McLeish 182 00:13:03,156 --> 00:13:06,076 Speaker 1: heading up the Office of Facts and Figures, he was 183 00:13:06,116 --> 00:13:09,156 Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable in the role of a propagandist. He 184 00:13:09,236 --> 00:13:11,996 Speaker 1: didn't believe in telling lies to destroy the enemy's morale. 185 00:13:12,356 --> 00:13:14,596 Speaker 1: There had to be a better way. He believed that 186 00:13:14,716 --> 00:13:17,556 Speaker 1: writers have an obligation to fight fascism in the battle 187 00:13:17,636 --> 00:13:21,436 Speaker 1: for public opinion, not by lying, but by telling the truth. 188 00:13:21,876 --> 00:13:25,396 Speaker 1: The truth of journalism was his weapon. The honesty required 189 00:13:25,516 --> 00:13:30,556 Speaker 1: for the proper functioning of a democracy. The duty of 190 00:13:30,756 --> 00:13:34,396 Speaker 1: government is to provide a basis for judgment, and when 191 00:13:34,476 --> 00:13:37,916 Speaker 1: it goes beyond that, it goes beyond the prime scope 192 00:13:37,956 --> 00:13:42,036 Speaker 1: of its duty. McLeish believed a democracy should wage a 193 00:13:42,076 --> 00:13:45,276 Speaker 1: War of facts should bring the same commitment to wartime 194 00:13:45,316 --> 00:13:48,596 Speaker 1: information for the public that journalists bring to good reporting. 195 00:13:49,236 --> 00:13:52,956 Speaker 1: He wanted to oppose the Germans strategy of terror with 196 00:13:53,156 --> 00:13:59,156 Speaker 1: what he called the strategy of truth. It is the 197 00:14:00,116 --> 00:14:05,036 Speaker 1: strategy of truth, the simple and clarifying truths by which 198 00:14:05,076 --> 00:14:08,756 Speaker 1: a nation such as ours must guide itself. But the 199 00:14:08,836 --> 00:14:12,316 Speaker 1: strategy of truth is not because it deals in truth 200 00:14:12,756 --> 00:14:16,676 Speaker 1: devoid of strategy. It is not enough in this war 201 00:14:16,916 --> 00:14:23,156 Speaker 1: of hoaxes and delusions and perpetuated lies to be nearly honest. 202 00:14:23,796 --> 00:14:29,516 Speaker 1: It is necessary also to be wise. McLeish said that 203 00:14:29,556 --> 00:14:32,996 Speaker 1: Americans could count on truth because of the nation's extraordinary 204 00:14:33,076 --> 00:14:38,436 Speaker 1: tradition of journalistic excellence, accuracy, and fairness. So he tried 205 00:14:38,476 --> 00:14:41,076 Speaker 1: to run this Office of Facts and Figures getting information 206 00:14:41,156 --> 00:14:44,596 Speaker 1: out to the public, real information, the way a magazine 207 00:14:44,716 --> 00:14:48,316 Speaker 1: might work. But that's not what a wartime propaganda office does. 208 00:14:49,196 --> 00:14:54,836 Speaker 1: His idealism did not survive the war. In nineteen forty two, 209 00:14:55,156 --> 00:14:57,716 Speaker 1: McLeish scaled back his involvement at the Office of Facts 210 00:14:57,756 --> 00:15:01,276 Speaker 1: and Figures FDR, then hired an ad man from Coca 211 00:15:01,356 --> 00:15:03,636 Speaker 1: Cola to work there. People who used to work for 212 00:15:03,756 --> 00:15:06,676 Speaker 1: McLeish made fun of this new guy, as if American 213 00:15:06,756 --> 00:15:10,236 Speaker 1: propaganda was now going to sound like this, that right 214 00:15:10,356 --> 00:15:14,236 Speaker 1: up and get your four delicious freedoms. It's a refreshing war. 215 00:15:16,036 --> 00:15:20,036 Speaker 1: So yeah, there was Allied propaganda. Still, let me be clear, 216 00:15:20,756 --> 00:15:24,316 Speaker 1: selling the four freedoms, freedom of speech, freedom of worship, 217 00:15:24,676 --> 00:15:28,076 Speaker 1: freedom from fear, and freedom from want is a world 218 00:15:28,156 --> 00:15:32,436 Speaker 1: of difference from selling anti semitism, race hatred and white 219 00:15:32,596 --> 00:15:49,796 Speaker 1: nationalism and committing genocide and the females a world of difference. 220 00:16:01,396 --> 00:16:07,116 Speaker 1: Google of America, I don't know all. I think you 221 00:16:07,436 --> 00:16:10,716 Speaker 1: are a law Ali him to get to ask you 222 00:16:11,076 --> 00:16:14,876 Speaker 1: out of my head women in America. Starting in nineteen 223 00:16:14,956 --> 00:16:19,076 Speaker 1: forty two, Access Sally's broadcasts went out to American troops. 224 00:16:19,596 --> 00:16:24,116 Speaker 1: She also visited pow camps and interviewed American prisoners and 225 00:16:24,236 --> 00:16:26,876 Speaker 1: then sent word of them on broadcasts that were meant 226 00:16:26,916 --> 00:16:29,156 Speaker 1: to go all the way back across the Atlantic and 227 00:16:29,316 --> 00:16:35,356 Speaker 1: into American homes. Now of all time, sit at the 228 00:16:35,476 --> 00:16:39,996 Speaker 1: town of the Gong. It was exactly nine o'clock Eastern 229 00:16:40,116 --> 00:16:44,316 Speaker 1: War times. There were actually a couple of wartime broadcasters 230 00:16:44,436 --> 00:16:49,036 Speaker 1: known as Axis Sally. This one's real name was Mildred Gillers. 231 00:16:50,676 --> 00:16:53,116 Speaker 1: She'd been born in Portland, Maine. For a while, she 232 00:16:53,196 --> 00:16:55,596 Speaker 1: was an actress in New York. In the nineteen thirties, 233 00:16:55,756 --> 00:16:58,596 Speaker 1: she moved to Germany. How she ended up working for 234 00:16:58,756 --> 00:17:00,836 Speaker 1: Radio Berlin is kind of a big mess, but she 235 00:17:00,956 --> 00:17:03,516 Speaker 1: was a star there. One thing she had a sinister 236 00:17:03,676 --> 00:17:07,276 Speaker 1: talent for was baiting American listeners who were desperate to 237 00:17:07,316 --> 00:17:10,556 Speaker 1: hear news, any kind of news of their loved ones. 238 00:17:11,476 --> 00:17:15,116 Speaker 1: Are you women in America waiting for the one you love? 239 00:17:15,916 --> 00:17:19,156 Speaker 1: Waiting and weeping in the sky of your own room, 240 00:17:19,996 --> 00:17:26,076 Speaker 1: thinking of Ustan or the brother we've been sacrificed? Salcuncan 241 00:17:26,356 --> 00:17:33,636 Speaker 1: d Rosberg Pari show on the Fringe about her. In 242 00:17:33,796 --> 00:17:36,796 Speaker 1: order for American officials to try Gillers for treason, they 243 00:17:36,916 --> 00:17:40,276 Speaker 1: first had to find her, and that proved to be 244 00:17:40,356 --> 00:17:46,596 Speaker 1: a challenge. Germline has surrendered unconditionally. Ethonie have just officially 245 00:17:46,756 --> 00:18:04,316 Speaker 1: laid down their own. Berlin nineteen forty six, a city 246 00:18:04,356 --> 00:18:08,516 Speaker 1: in ruins, piles of rubble towering on street corners, alongside 247 00:18:08,556 --> 00:18:13,796 Speaker 1: the empty husks of bombed buildings. Hans Winson, an American 248 00:18:13,876 --> 00:18:18,676 Speaker 1: counterintelligence agent, put up wanted posters looking for acts Sally. 249 00:18:19,636 --> 00:18:32,316 Speaker 1: He knocked on doors, flashing a photographs fall mine. She 250 00:18:32,516 --> 00:18:35,956 Speaker 1: carried an alligator purse and clutched a cigarette like a dagger. 251 00:18:36,636 --> 00:18:39,196 Speaker 1: She was pushing fifty. She wore the clothes of a 252 00:18:39,276 --> 00:18:43,236 Speaker 1: college girl. She was about as natural as a hydrogen bomb. 253 00:18:44,036 --> 00:18:50,436 Speaker 1: American reporters would later call her Hitler's girlfriend. One day, 254 00:18:50,556 --> 00:18:53,316 Speaker 1: Winson got lucky. He got a tip that acts as Sally. 255 00:18:53,796 --> 00:18:57,116 Speaker 1: Mildred Gillers was selling her furniture to second hand shops 256 00:18:57,156 --> 00:19:00,676 Speaker 1: all around town. Before she'd gone into hiding. She'd stored 257 00:19:00,756 --> 00:19:02,676 Speaker 1: some of her things in the basement of her old 258 00:19:02,676 --> 00:19:07,836 Speaker 1: apartment building. Winson got the superintendent to let him in. Well, 259 00:19:07,876 --> 00:19:13,276 Speaker 1: I'll be damned. Thus is the alice Jack Pott stowed 260 00:19:13,316 --> 00:19:16,636 Speaker 1: in a basement. Winson found exactly what US authorities had 261 00:19:16,676 --> 00:19:21,676 Speaker 1: been searching for records of Mildred Gillers's radio broadcasts. You 262 00:19:21,796 --> 00:19:24,876 Speaker 1: can hear listening to those records how this stuff might 263 00:19:24,916 --> 00:19:29,516 Speaker 1: have worked as propaganda. It's pretty subtle. That would make 264 00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:33,636 Speaker 1: bringing her to trial tricky. Grow well, don't cook up 265 00:19:33,676 --> 00:19:41,716 Speaker 1: the patibul fool, don't have a home. Two years after 266 00:19:41,796 --> 00:19:44,756 Speaker 1: Winston tracked Gillers down, she was brought to the US 267 00:19:44,916 --> 00:19:48,196 Speaker 1: to face charges of treason. The case against her would 268 00:19:48,236 --> 00:19:50,796 Speaker 1: have to establish that she had given aid and comfort 269 00:19:50,956 --> 00:19:53,876 Speaker 1: to the enemies of the United States, and, under the 270 00:19:53,996 --> 00:19:56,756 Speaker 1: terms of a recent Supreme Court decision, that she had 271 00:19:56,836 --> 00:20:01,156 Speaker 1: intended to provide that aid and comfort. There's still a question, though, 272 00:20:01,316 --> 00:20:05,236 Speaker 1: can you commit treason by radio. By the time the 273 00:20:05,316 --> 00:20:08,076 Speaker 1: Justice Department was really putting together its case against Gillers, 274 00:20:08,556 --> 00:20:12,596 Speaker 1: another American who'd broadcast under the name Paul Revere had 275 00:20:12,636 --> 00:20:16,676 Speaker 1: just been tried from the heart of Hitler, Germany. Your messenger, 276 00:20:16,756 --> 00:20:23,916 Speaker 1: Paul Revere, greets you again, countrymen, friends, bows jew haters, 277 00:20:24,356 --> 00:20:29,556 Speaker 1: and Jew's surveys. That guy he was found guilty of treason. 278 00:20:30,396 --> 00:20:32,996 Speaker 1: Well would happened to Gillers, though was still not clear. 279 00:20:33,876 --> 00:20:36,756 Speaker 1: To convict her, prosecutors would have to provide either a 280 00:20:36,836 --> 00:20:41,396 Speaker 1: confession or two witnesses. Gillers wasn't about to confess to treason. 281 00:20:41,636 --> 00:20:44,796 Speaker 1: The punishment for treason could be death, so the prosecution 282 00:20:44,916 --> 00:20:48,076 Speaker 1: needed those two witnesses who could both identify her and 283 00:20:48,236 --> 00:20:52,596 Speaker 1: speak to her intent. Special Agent Joseph T. Jenko, a 284 00:20:52,716 --> 00:20:56,596 Speaker 1: lawyer from Brooklyn, headed the investigation. He'd been tracking Gillers 285 00:20:56,716 --> 00:21:03,916 Speaker 1: for years in the nineteen twenties. Before Gillers went to Germany. 286 00:21:04,076 --> 00:21:06,516 Speaker 1: She'd worked as an actress and a model in New York. 287 00:21:06,916 --> 00:21:09,956 Speaker 1: Djenko interviewed people who'd known her, people like a guy 288 00:21:10,036 --> 00:21:14,676 Speaker 1: named Wilfred Thomas. She was very dumb. I'm at a 289 00:21:14,796 --> 00:21:17,836 Speaker 1: loss to understand how she could be doing anything which 290 00:21:17,876 --> 00:21:21,476 Speaker 1: would be considered animical to the interests of the country. 291 00:21:22,796 --> 00:21:25,836 Speaker 1: Building a case against Gillers took months. Jenko and other 292 00:21:25,956 --> 00:21:28,956 Speaker 1: FBI agents tracked down and interviewed men who might have 293 00:21:29,036 --> 00:21:33,036 Speaker 1: heard Gillers while in prison camps German stallogs. The FBI 294 00:21:33,276 --> 00:21:35,636 Speaker 1: heard rumors that Gillers had coursed some of those men 295 00:21:35,956 --> 00:21:39,676 Speaker 1: into making recordings saying they were being treated well. That 296 00:21:39,756 --> 00:21:43,116 Speaker 1: would have been very damning evidence. But Jenko couldn't find 297 00:21:43,156 --> 00:21:46,276 Speaker 1: those recordings, and I can't find them either. For a while, 298 00:21:46,516 --> 00:21:50,196 Speaker 1: the Justice Department thought about just dropping the case. The 299 00:21:50,276 --> 00:21:53,116 Speaker 1: break came when investigators obtained a recording of a broadcast 300 00:21:53,236 --> 00:21:57,076 Speaker 1: called Vision of Invasion, was a radio play in which 301 00:21:57,156 --> 00:22:00,916 Speaker 1: Gillers had starred. With this evidence, the grand jury issued 302 00:22:00,956 --> 00:22:05,076 Speaker 1: an indictment. It included some pointed legal language, charging her 303 00:22:05,156 --> 00:22:09,756 Speaker 1: with having participated in a phonographic recording that it would 304 00:22:09,756 --> 00:22:13,236 Speaker 1: be broadcast to the United States to its citizens and 305 00:22:13,356 --> 00:22:16,036 Speaker 1: soldiers at home and abroad, as an element of German 306 00:22:16,116 --> 00:22:24,396 Speaker 1: propaganda and an instrument of psychological warfare. Giller's trial began 307 00:22:24,476 --> 00:22:28,076 Speaker 1: early in nineteen forty nine in US District Court in Washington, 308 00:22:28,156 --> 00:22:33,956 Speaker 1: d c. The reporters gasped at their first look at 309 00:22:33,996 --> 00:22:37,476 Speaker 1: her at forty eight. She has the figure of a 310 00:22:37,556 --> 00:22:40,196 Speaker 1: woman of forty eight who has worked hard and sacrifice 311 00:22:40,316 --> 00:22:43,276 Speaker 1: much to keep the figure. She added twenty four. Richard 312 00:22:43,356 --> 00:22:46,916 Speaker 1: Rovera covered the trial for The New Yorker. Her entire 313 00:22:46,996 --> 00:22:50,636 Speaker 1: get up, the type black dresses, the black spike heeled shoes, 314 00:22:50,716 --> 00:22:54,116 Speaker 1: the indigo scarf that she uses for gesturing, the generous 315 00:22:54,156 --> 00:22:58,156 Speaker 1: applications of lipstick and nail polish suggests that she is 316 00:22:58,276 --> 00:23:02,636 Speaker 1: torn by an inner conflict. Although she is trying desperately 317 00:23:02,756 --> 00:23:06,396 Speaker 1: to avoid conviction, she is at the same time determined 318 00:23:06,436 --> 00:23:08,516 Speaker 1: not to destroy the illusion of herself as a woman 319 00:23:08,556 --> 00:23:15,676 Speaker 1: of mystery, glamor, and injury. This is before television. Rivera 320 00:23:15,756 --> 00:23:19,156 Speaker 1: is painting a picture. Also, as he describes Gillars, she 321 00:23:19,316 --> 00:23:23,676 Speaker 1: does sound not only terrible, but fascinatingly clueless. The notion 322 00:23:23,716 --> 00:23:26,916 Speaker 1: of miss Gillars is a woman of glamor, either sinister 323 00:23:27,196 --> 00:23:29,756 Speaker 1: or otherwise is one that at this stage of the 324 00:23:29,836 --> 00:23:36,076 Speaker 1: game anyway, only miss Gillars herself can harbor. And here's 325 00:23:36,076 --> 00:23:38,996 Speaker 1: the part that knocks me out, the novelty of the evidence, 326 00:23:39,196 --> 00:23:42,796 Speaker 1: the technological novelty of it. Gillers was being tried for 327 00:23:42,876 --> 00:23:45,796 Speaker 1: the crime, the treason of having been an instrument of 328 00:23:45,916 --> 00:23:50,196 Speaker 1: psychological warfare. But to accommodate the evidence of this crime, 329 00:23:50,556 --> 00:23:53,716 Speaker 1: the courtroom was outfitted with a record player and forty 330 00:23:53,796 --> 00:23:58,076 Speaker 1: sets of headphones, and only forty the judge, the defendant, 331 00:23:58,236 --> 00:24:01,596 Speaker 1: the lawyers, the jurors, in a handful of reporters. Each 332 00:24:01,636 --> 00:24:03,916 Speaker 1: of them had a set of headphones. Was said that 333 00:24:03,996 --> 00:24:07,556 Speaker 1: it looked like a miniature United Nations in there. The judge. 334 00:24:07,556 --> 00:24:10,196 Speaker 1: Set of headphones were necessary because the recordings were hard 335 00:24:10,236 --> 00:24:12,596 Speaker 1: to hear without them, which I think is true. The 336 00:24:12,716 --> 00:24:15,876 Speaker 1: recordings are really difficult to hear. But I also don't 337 00:24:15,916 --> 00:24:20,156 Speaker 1: totally buy the judge's explanation. In a crowded courtroom, forty 338 00:24:20,196 --> 00:24:22,676 Speaker 1: sets of headphones really isn't that many. It meant that 339 00:24:22,756 --> 00:24:24,836 Speaker 1: no one in the audience could hear the evidence, not 340 00:24:25,036 --> 00:24:28,716 Speaker 1: Gillers's family or any of the spectators. Her lawyer later 341 00:24:28,836 --> 00:24:32,116 Speaker 1: filed an appeal saying that she'd been denied a public trial, 342 00:24:32,276 --> 00:24:35,596 Speaker 1: which is a constitutional right. But I think maybe the 343 00:24:35,716 --> 00:24:39,836 Speaker 1: judge had thought these recordings are toxic. Let's not expose 344 00:24:39,876 --> 00:24:44,996 Speaker 1: the whole room to it. The prosecution had first to 345 00:24:45,076 --> 00:24:48,116 Speaker 1: prove that Gillers's voice, not someone else's voice, was the 346 00:24:48,196 --> 00:24:51,036 Speaker 1: voice on those records. I did that by bringing to 347 00:24:51,116 --> 00:24:54,756 Speaker 1: the stand a guy who'd worked at Radio Berlin. They 348 00:24:54,796 --> 00:24:58,196 Speaker 1: asked him if he'd ever seen her speaking into a microphone? Yes, 349 00:24:58,396 --> 00:25:01,956 Speaker 1: many times. Did he recognize her voice on the stack 350 00:25:01,996 --> 00:25:06,796 Speaker 1: of twenty two records right here? Yes. Gillers's lawyer didn't 351 00:25:06,796 --> 00:25:09,636 Speaker 1: have much by way of a defense, that she'd been 352 00:25:09,716 --> 00:25:12,996 Speaker 1: hypnotized in Berlin by a Germans Bengali who, before she 353 00:25:13,076 --> 00:25:15,356 Speaker 1: went to Europe, had been her professor at Hunter College. 354 00:25:16,596 --> 00:25:20,276 Speaker 1: At that point, reporters noted Miss Gillers dabbed her eyes. 355 00:25:21,356 --> 00:25:24,356 Speaker 1: But his argument was undercut by the prosecution bringing in 356 00:25:24,436 --> 00:25:27,036 Speaker 1: witnesses who pointed out the Gillers was the best paid 357 00:25:27,236 --> 00:25:31,196 Speaker 1: of all the Third Reich's broadcasters. And then the prosecution 358 00:25:31,396 --> 00:25:36,476 Speaker 1: began the playback and our Sixtus suns as well about 359 00:25:36,516 --> 00:25:41,956 Speaker 1: the fire the door. The prosecution played those records for 360 00:25:42,116 --> 00:25:48,396 Speaker 1: hours and hours on the arts at once amaticly to 361 00:25:48,476 --> 00:25:54,676 Speaker 1: a novel. Wo not the busy now got a British 362 00:25:54,676 --> 00:25:58,396 Speaker 1: slap up? Where else should say that? But we are 363 00:25:58,476 --> 00:26:01,716 Speaker 1: fighting for them, We're not having all our good wrong 364 00:26:01,916 --> 00:26:06,356 Speaker 1: blood for the high quark from the British war. Oh girls, 365 00:26:06,476 --> 00:26:10,116 Speaker 1: I don't you wake up? The most crucial piece of 366 00:26:10,156 --> 00:26:14,516 Speaker 1: evidence was the poorest quality recording that radio drama Vision 367 00:26:14,556 --> 00:26:17,996 Speaker 1: of Invasion, which had been broadcast just before D Day 368 00:26:21,996 --> 00:26:28,996 Speaker 1: of Invasion. Vision of Invasion was essential to the prosecution's 369 00:26:29,076 --> 00:26:33,116 Speaker 1: argument about intent because it supported the contention that Gillers 370 00:26:33,156 --> 00:26:37,196 Speaker 1: had tried to undermine American morale. Broadcast in the weeks 371 00:26:37,236 --> 00:26:39,876 Speaker 1: before D Day, it tells the story of an American 372 00:26:39,996 --> 00:26:42,756 Speaker 1: mother worrying that her son might drown in the English 373 00:26:42,836 --> 00:26:55,556 Speaker 1: channel during an invasion attempt. Other actors who had performed 374 00:26:55,556 --> 00:26:58,116 Speaker 1: in the radio play testified that Gillers had performed the 375 00:26:58,196 --> 00:27:00,876 Speaker 1: role of the mother. But anyone in the courtroom could 376 00:27:00,916 --> 00:27:13,516 Speaker 1: hear that for themselves. Roosevelt had no right to go 377 00:27:13,596 --> 00:27:18,276 Speaker 1: to war, she said. Richard Rivere, the New Yorker reporter, 378 00:27:18,476 --> 00:27:20,916 Speaker 1: found listening to the stuff in that courtroom with those 379 00:27:20,956 --> 00:27:25,436 Speaker 1: headphones unbearable. Five years ago, one could listen to it 380 00:27:25,596 --> 00:27:29,396 Speaker 1: partly for its comic value and partly dissensed the full 381 00:27:29,476 --> 00:27:32,436 Speaker 1: evil of the thing. But now it has lost its 382 00:27:32,476 --> 00:27:36,596 Speaker 1: power to either amuse or a rouse. Its only effect 383 00:27:36,716 --> 00:27:38,916 Speaker 1: is to make one feel ashamed of one's ownership of 384 00:27:38,996 --> 00:27:42,756 Speaker 1: a human mind. It got worse for Gillers from there 385 00:27:43,196 --> 00:27:45,916 Speaker 1: when the prosecution played another record in which Gillers said, 386 00:27:46,436 --> 00:27:48,996 Speaker 1: damn Roosevelt, and damn Churchill, and damn all of their 387 00:27:49,076 --> 00:27:52,836 Speaker 1: Jews who have made this war possible. Gillers's attorney answered 388 00:27:53,396 --> 00:27:55,516 Speaker 1: she had a right to be anti Roosevelt, a right 389 00:27:55,596 --> 00:27:58,556 Speaker 1: to be anti British, and a right to be anti Jewish. 390 00:27:59,876 --> 00:28:05,956 Speaker 1: That was his best argument. Mildred Gillers was convicted of treason, 391 00:28:06,396 --> 00:28:10,596 Speaker 1: of betraying her country, of having become instrument of psychological 392 00:28:10,676 --> 00:28:13,796 Speaker 1: warfare because she had tried to cause Americans to doubt 393 00:28:13,836 --> 00:28:17,716 Speaker 1: their ability to win the war. In nineteen sixty one, 394 00:28:17,796 --> 00:28:20,356 Speaker 1: when she got out of prison, a reporter asked her 395 00:28:20,476 --> 00:28:24,316 Speaker 1: for her thoughts after some fifteen years in prison? What 396 00:28:24,396 --> 00:28:28,716 Speaker 1: am I supposed to say? She was at last speechless. 397 00:28:41,076 --> 00:28:42,876 Speaker 1: There's a lot to be learned about the now by 398 00:28:42,956 --> 00:28:45,636 Speaker 1: looking back to the nineteen forties and at the many 399 00:28:45,716 --> 00:28:51,316 Speaker 1: costs and tragedies of psychological warfare. In nineteen forty two, 400 00:28:51,556 --> 00:28:55,956 Speaker 1: the US War Department created a Psychological Warfare branch. It 401 00:28:56,116 --> 00:28:59,276 Speaker 1: concluded that American troops in the Pacific were being subjected 402 00:28:59,316 --> 00:29:04,796 Speaker 1: to Japanese psychological warfare. Hollywood got interested. In nineteen forty four, 403 00:29:04,876 --> 00:29:07,956 Speaker 1: in a Carried Grant film, Americans were introduced to a 404 00:29:08,036 --> 00:29:12,436 Speaker 1: Japanese radio broadcast called Tokyo Rose. I can't have anything 405 00:29:12,476 --> 00:29:17,516 Speaker 1: sparks history. Tokyo Rose giving out with that nightly guff 406 00:29:17,596 --> 00:29:21,276 Speaker 1: to the USA been defeated in a war, the pseudo 407 00:29:21,316 --> 00:29:25,316 Speaker 1: you Americans realize that Japan is invincible, so perfect of 408 00:29:25,396 --> 00:29:28,396 Speaker 1: the iron ring of defensively after the Japanese bomb Pearl 409 00:29:28,476 --> 00:29:32,036 Speaker 1: Harbor at the end of nineteen forty one, FDR signed 410 00:29:32,076 --> 00:29:35,556 Speaker 1: an executive order calling for the mass evacuation and mass 411 00:29:35,636 --> 00:29:38,876 Speaker 1: imprisonment of over one hundred thousand people of Japanese descent 412 00:29:39,116 --> 00:29:43,116 Speaker 1: living in the United States. Many of them were US citizens, 413 00:29:43,716 --> 00:29:46,996 Speaker 1: And then the government put out an especially despicable piece 414 00:29:46,996 --> 00:29:53,396 Speaker 1: of propaganda defending internment by lying about it evacuation. More 415 00:29:53,436 --> 00:29:56,236 Speaker 1: than a hundred thousand men, women, and children, all of 416 00:29:56,356 --> 00:29:59,796 Speaker 1: Japanese ancestry removed from their homes in the Pacific Coach 417 00:29:59,836 --> 00:30:04,076 Speaker 1: State to wartime community established an out of the way places. 418 00:30:05,116 --> 00:30:08,756 Speaker 1: Their evacuation did not imply individual dis loyalty. They are 419 00:30:08,836 --> 00:30:12,316 Speaker 1: not prisoners, They are not in turney. They are merely 420 00:30:12,476 --> 00:30:18,436 Speaker 1: displicated people, the unwounded casualties of war. After the war, 421 00:30:18,716 --> 00:30:20,996 Speaker 1: about the same time the federal authorities were building a 422 00:30:21,076 --> 00:30:24,876 Speaker 1: case against Mildred Gillers, the Justice Department also got interested 423 00:30:24,996 --> 00:30:29,036 Speaker 1: and finding and prosecuting a Japanese radio broadcaster. Someone who 424 00:30:29,476 --> 00:30:32,596 Speaker 1: liked Gillers was an American citizen and so could be 425 00:30:32,716 --> 00:30:38,516 Speaker 1: charged with treason. Her name was Iva Tuguri, reading everybody 426 00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:41,716 Speaker 1: is your number one enemy, your favorite framemate, often an 427 00:30:41,876 --> 00:30:45,556 Speaker 1: a radio sociate, the little sumby who grosly likes to cut. 428 00:30:46,276 --> 00:30:49,036 Speaker 1: They're ready again for this is her solve on your morale. 429 00:30:50,356 --> 00:30:53,916 Speaker 1: The Justice Department began building a case against Tiguri. Meanwhile, 430 00:30:54,156 --> 00:30:56,916 Speaker 1: the American press decided to refer to her by the 431 00:30:57,076 --> 00:30:59,716 Speaker 1: name of the fictional character from that Carry Grant movie. 432 00:31:00,076 --> 00:31:04,076 Speaker 1: They called her Tokyo Rose. But you lad, it's a 433 00:31:04,196 --> 00:31:10,756 Speaker 1: good guy. I will five helped do that, hopefully. Who 434 00:31:10,876 --> 00:31:16,156 Speaker 1: is the first blow. I killed Morale. Hey, I don't 435 00:31:16,156 --> 00:31:21,956 Speaker 1: want to go away directly. Reporters at the time wrote 436 00:31:21,956 --> 00:31:25,876 Speaker 1: about the radio ladies together Acces Sally in Tokyo, Rose, 437 00:31:26,556 --> 00:31:30,676 Speaker 1: Mildred Gillers, and Ivor Toguri, but Tguri's case was in 438 00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:36,596 Speaker 1: fact nothing like Gillers's case. She was born in Los 439 00:31:36,636 --> 00:31:39,916 Speaker 1: Angeles on the fourth of July nineteen sixteen. Both her 440 00:31:39,956 --> 00:31:43,236 Speaker 1: parents were from Japan. She graduated from UCLA in nineteen 441 00:31:43,356 --> 00:31:45,996 Speaker 1: forty and the next year went to Japan to visit 442 00:31:46,076 --> 00:31:49,236 Speaker 1: an aunt who was dying. While she was there, the 443 00:31:49,396 --> 00:31:52,756 Speaker 1: US and Japan went to war in nineteen forty two. 444 00:31:52,876 --> 00:31:56,636 Speaker 1: FDR issued his infamous Japanese in Tournament order, and both 445 00:31:56,676 --> 00:32:00,036 Speaker 1: of Togury's parents were imprisoned in a relocation center in Arizona. 446 00:32:00,556 --> 00:32:04,516 Speaker 1: Her mother would die there. Tguri was stranded in Japan. 447 00:32:05,276 --> 00:32:07,436 Speaker 1: She got a job as a typist, first at a 448 00:32:07,516 --> 00:32:11,236 Speaker 1: news agency and then at Radio Tokyo. Meanwhile, the head 449 00:32:11,236 --> 00:32:14,996 Speaker 1: of propaganda for the Japanese Army instructed Radio Tokyo to 450 00:32:15,116 --> 00:32:19,556 Speaker 1: make its propaganda more effective. The station found three prisoners 451 00:32:19,596 --> 00:32:21,836 Speaker 1: of war who had been radio announcers before the war, 452 00:32:22,196 --> 00:32:26,036 Speaker 1: an American, an Australian and a Filipino, and these three 453 00:32:26,116 --> 00:32:28,516 Speaker 1: men hired to Guri as the host of a new 454 00:32:28,636 --> 00:32:32,196 Speaker 1: variety show called The Zero Hour. She was mainly what 455 00:32:32,316 --> 00:32:36,516 Speaker 1: we'd call a DJ not bad, not bad and now 456 00:32:36,636 --> 00:32:41,956 Speaker 1: the judikanasi widneys from the American Hall Fronts. Tiguri and 457 00:32:42,036 --> 00:32:45,076 Speaker 1: the three prisoners of war she worked with were instructed 458 00:32:45,116 --> 00:32:48,476 Speaker 1: to make propaganda on behalf of Japan to be broadcast 459 00:32:48,556 --> 00:32:51,316 Speaker 1: to Allied troops, but they seem to have decided to 460 00:32:51,436 --> 00:32:55,716 Speaker 1: make fun of access propaganda. Seventy five little sidneys geeks 461 00:32:55,756 --> 00:32:58,356 Speaker 1: for our friends, I mean I am leaving the South 462 00:32:58,436 --> 00:33:03,076 Speaker 1: provided Later, Tiguri told the FBI that she tried to 463 00:33:03,156 --> 00:33:05,836 Speaker 1: give the show a double meaning so that it just 464 00:33:05,876 --> 00:33:09,476 Speaker 1: wouldn't work as propaganda, and that seems to be borne 465 00:33:09,516 --> 00:33:11,796 Speaker 1: out by the evidence, which consists of a handful of 466 00:33:11,876 --> 00:33:15,356 Speaker 1: scripts and a reconstruction of her recordings that Tiguri made 467 00:33:15,396 --> 00:33:19,756 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty five after the Japanese surrender. Then, two 468 00:33:19,876 --> 00:33:22,556 Speaker 1: the people who had worked at Radio Tokyo interrogated by 469 00:33:22,596 --> 00:33:26,316 Speaker 1: the FBI refused to implicate her. They said she'd been 470 00:33:26,356 --> 00:33:30,756 Speaker 1: trying not to produce propaganda, but to undermine it. Tiguri 471 00:33:30,836 --> 00:33:38,356 Speaker 1: was arrested but released for lack of evidence. One reason 472 00:33:38,436 --> 00:33:41,316 Speaker 1: the evidence against Tiguri was so flimsy was that during 473 00:33:41,356 --> 00:33:44,636 Speaker 1: the war, Tokyo rose had become a catch all term 474 00:33:44,996 --> 00:33:48,636 Speaker 1: for any English speaking woman's voice on Japanese radio. There 475 00:33:48,676 --> 00:33:51,316 Speaker 1: really was Japanese propaganda on the radio, of course, it 476 00:33:51,476 --> 00:33:56,036 Speaker 1: just sounded like this. I was the United States trans 477 00:33:56,156 --> 00:34:00,196 Speaker 1: meeting her years of the full freedoms into her leaving 478 00:34:00,756 --> 00:34:04,996 Speaker 1: into her labor and the ratio programs. What about her 479 00:34:05,316 --> 00:34:09,876 Speaker 1: ever present negro problem? Her a notorious slee choose, a 480 00:34:10,116 --> 00:34:16,596 Speaker 1: rare practice even among savages the Americans. I've completely forgotten 481 00:34:17,196 --> 00:34:19,876 Speaker 1: that the Negroes are just as much a part of 482 00:34:19,916 --> 00:34:25,316 Speaker 1: a humanity of the air themselves. That's what real Japanese 483 00:34:25,396 --> 00:34:29,716 Speaker 1: propaganda sounded like. Radio Tokyo propagandists talked about race relations 484 00:34:29,756 --> 00:34:33,276 Speaker 1: in the US all the time. Here's what Iva Takuri 485 00:34:33,436 --> 00:34:37,516 Speaker 1: sounded like. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's all 486 00:34:37,556 --> 00:34:40,276 Speaker 1: an enemy. But there'll be more to thank you night. 487 00:34:40,556 --> 00:34:44,476 Speaker 1: Until then, there's your number one enemy. G I always 488 00:34:44,516 --> 00:34:49,996 Speaker 1: will be good good right now? Is that psychological warfare? 489 00:34:50,476 --> 00:34:52,516 Speaker 1: To me? It really does sound a lot more like 490 00:34:52,596 --> 00:34:57,396 Speaker 1: a satire of psychological warfare. Anyway. To convict Aguri of treason. 491 00:34:57,516 --> 00:35:01,596 Speaker 1: As with Gillers, the government needed two witnesses. He couldn't 492 00:35:01,596 --> 00:35:05,316 Speaker 1: find them, so it pressured two American born Japanese men, 493 00:35:05,796 --> 00:35:09,676 Speaker 1: George Mitsushio and Kenichi Oki, who'd go on to Japan 494 00:35:09,836 --> 00:35:13,156 Speaker 1: during the war and become Japanese citizens. They agreed to 495 00:35:13,236 --> 00:35:16,596 Speaker 1: testify that Tuguri had taunted American sailors on the air, 496 00:35:17,116 --> 00:35:22,236 Speaker 1: that she'd said three damning sentences. You fellows have lost 497 00:35:22,316 --> 00:35:26,236 Speaker 1: all your ships. You really are orphans of the Pacific. Now, 498 00:35:26,356 --> 00:35:29,556 Speaker 1: how do you think you will ever get home? On 499 00:35:29,676 --> 00:35:32,996 Speaker 1: the basis of these words, these three sentences of which 500 00:35:33,076 --> 00:35:38,236 Speaker 1: no recording survives, the jury found Iva Tuguri guilty of treason. 501 00:35:39,156 --> 00:35:41,436 Speaker 1: She was sentenced to ten years in prison at the 502 00:35:41,516 --> 00:35:45,516 Speaker 1: Federal Reformatory for Women in West Virginia, the same prison 503 00:35:45,556 --> 00:35:48,956 Speaker 1: where Mildred Gillers was serving her time. I don't know 504 00:35:49,076 --> 00:35:51,716 Speaker 1: if they ever met or what they could possibly have 505 00:35:51,796 --> 00:35:59,396 Speaker 1: said to one another. Iva Tiguri was released in nineteen 506 00:35:59,476 --> 00:36:02,356 Speaker 1: fifty six. She went on to run a gift shop 507 00:36:02,396 --> 00:36:06,476 Speaker 1: in Chicago. Twenty years after her release. A reporter for 508 00:36:06,556 --> 00:36:10,076 Speaker 1: the Chicago Tribune tracked down the witness is who testified 509 00:36:10,116 --> 00:36:13,716 Speaker 1: in her trial. They told the reporter that they'd lied, 510 00:36:14,236 --> 00:36:18,356 Speaker 1: that they'd been coached and threatened. President Gerald Ford, on 511 00:36:18,516 --> 00:36:22,516 Speaker 1: his final day in office, pardoned her. But I am 512 00:36:22,596 --> 00:36:25,236 Speaker 1: still haunted by how she answered a question about her 513 00:36:25,276 --> 00:36:29,716 Speaker 1: trial on sixty minutes. Had that experience a better ye 514 00:36:29,796 --> 00:36:33,316 Speaker 1: towards this country. I don't think bid in this is 515 00:36:33,356 --> 00:36:41,076 Speaker 1: the word. I'm kind of disappointed that I had to 516 00:36:41,156 --> 00:36:46,156 Speaker 1: go through what I did because of some untruths, and 517 00:36:47,636 --> 00:36:54,796 Speaker 1: it couldn't separate the myths from facts. That's one cost, 518 00:36:55,276 --> 00:37:00,076 Speaker 1: a big cost of conducting psychological warfare. It requires so 519 00:37:00,276 --> 00:37:02,996 Speaker 1: much lying during a war that when it's all over, 520 00:37:03,476 --> 00:37:06,596 Speaker 1: it can be hard ever again to separate myths from facts, 521 00:37:07,236 --> 00:37:11,716 Speaker 1: to sort truth from lies. This is called geography of 522 00:37:11,796 --> 00:37:16,436 Speaker 1: this time. This is a poem. Archibald McLeish wrote at 523 00:37:16,476 --> 00:37:18,876 Speaker 1: the end of the war. He was trying to reckon 524 00:37:19,076 --> 00:37:21,876 Speaker 1: with what the war had done to time, to nations, 525 00:37:22,316 --> 00:37:27,276 Speaker 1: to language and to knowledge. What is required of us 526 00:37:27,476 --> 00:37:31,836 Speaker 1: is the recognition of the frontiers between the centuries. McLeish 527 00:37:31,876 --> 00:37:35,076 Speaker 1: had the idea that in the aftermath of atrocity, people 528 00:37:35,156 --> 00:37:38,516 Speaker 1: have to work out all over again how change happens 529 00:37:39,116 --> 00:37:43,076 Speaker 1: what separates one time from another, one place from another. 530 00:37:43,116 --> 00:37:47,076 Speaker 1: As if the signposts have fallen, the street signs, the 531 00:37:47,276 --> 00:37:53,676 Speaker 1: lamp posts, the land is barren, seemingly timeless. Who thought 532 00:37:54,356 --> 00:37:58,796 Speaker 1: tomorrow was of the same nation as today. There are 533 00:37:58,876 --> 00:38:01,316 Speaker 1: many who came to the frontiers between the times and 534 00:38:01,436 --> 00:38:04,556 Speaker 1: did not know them. Who looked for the sentry box 535 00:38:04,636 --> 00:38:07,436 Speaker 1: at the stone bridge, for the barricade, and the pines, 536 00:38:07,516 --> 00:38:10,316 Speaker 1: and the declaration and two lang, which is the warning 537 00:38:11,116 --> 00:38:15,396 Speaker 1: and the opportunity to turn. They are dead there in 538 00:38:15,516 --> 00:38:20,396 Speaker 1: the down light, in the sheep's barren. This, I think, 539 00:38:20,516 --> 00:38:25,116 Speaker 1: is the actual strategy of truth, reposting the street signs, 540 00:38:25,596 --> 00:38:32,436 Speaker 1: attaching meaning towards fighting propaganda, with poetry, finding our way 541 00:38:32,596 --> 00:38:36,796 Speaker 1: on the long road to knowledge in the aftermath of atrocity. 542 00:38:39,316 --> 00:38:43,796 Speaker 1: What is required of us is the recognition with no sign, 543 00:38:43,916 --> 00:38:46,916 Speaker 1: with no word, with the roads raveled out into ruts, 544 00:38:46,956 --> 00:38:49,916 Speaker 1: and the ruts into dust, and the dust stirred by 545 00:38:49,956 --> 00:38:53,996 Speaker 1: the wind, the roads from behind us ending in the dust. 546 00:38:55,196 --> 00:38:58,116 Speaker 1: What is required of us is the recognition of the 547 00:38:58,236 --> 00:39:06,876 Speaker 1: frontiers where the roads end. We are very far. That's 548 00:39:06,916 --> 00:39:09,436 Speaker 1: the place I'm trying to get to on this season 549 00:39:09,676 --> 00:39:14,996 Speaker 1: of the Last Archive across the frontiers of history over Rhodes, 550 00:39:15,116 --> 00:39:20,636 Speaker 1: rutted by lies and doubt. That place is very far. 551 00:39:34,276 --> 00:39:37,276 Speaker 1: The Last Archive is written and hosted by me Joe Lapour. 552 00:39:37,676 --> 00:39:40,956 Speaker 1: It's produced by Sophie Crane, mckibbon and Ben Natt of Hafrey. 553 00:39:41,276 --> 00:39:44,276 Speaker 1: Our editor is Julia Barton, and our executive producer is 554 00:39:44,356 --> 00:39:48,676 Speaker 1: Mia Lobel. Martin Gonzalez is our engineer. Fact checking by 555 00:39:48,756 --> 00:39:52,516 Speaker 1: Amy Gaines. Original music by Matthias boss and John Evans 556 00:39:52,596 --> 00:39:56,596 Speaker 1: of Stellwagen Symfinett. Our research assistants are Michelle Gau, Olivia 557 00:39:56,636 --> 00:40:00,156 Speaker 1: Oldham and Oliver Riskin. Cuts special thanks to Joan Donovan 558 00:40:00,316 --> 00:40:03,796 Speaker 1: and Simon Leake. Our full proof players are Yoshia Mao, 559 00:40:03,996 --> 00:40:07,956 Speaker 1: Raymond Blankenhorne, Matthias Bossi, Dan Epstein, Ethan Herschenfeld, Becca A. 560 00:40:08,116 --> 00:40:12,116 Speaker 1: Lewis and Ruper Hello, Robert Roccatta and Nick Saxton. The 561 00:40:12,236 --> 00:40:15,276 Speaker 1: Last Archive is a production of Pushkin Industries. At Pushkin 562 00:40:15,516 --> 00:40:19,236 Speaker 1: thanks to Jacob Weisburg, Heather Fame, John Schnarz, Harley Migliori, 563 00:40:19,476 --> 00:40:23,876 Speaker 1: Christina Sullivan, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostak, Maggie Taylor, Maya Kanig 564 00:40:24,076 --> 00:40:27,316 Speaker 1: and Daniella Lacan Many of us out effects are from Harry, 565 00:40:27,356 --> 00:40:30,636 Speaker 1: Janette Junior, and the Star Jenette Foundation. If you like 566 00:40:30,796 --> 00:40:33,516 Speaker 1: the show, please remember to rate, share, and review. To 567 00:40:33,596 --> 00:40:37,796 Speaker 1: find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 568 00:40:38,156 --> 00:40:41,156 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen at podcasts. I'm Jill Lapoor.