Speaker 1: This is How Men Think with Brooks Flight and Gavin
Speaker 1: to Grab and I heard radio podcast. Welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of How Men Think. My name is Brooks Like
Speaker 1: and I will be co hosting today and it's a
Speaker 1: super exciting day, a monumental day because we have one
Speaker 1: man stepping up. He's been promoted from the minor leagues
Speaker 1: to the major leagues to co host alongside me. Ryan
Speaker 1: that that sounded good, Heylus to you, buddy, This is
Speaker 1: It was only a matter of time before I was promoted.
Speaker 1: You know, Gavin is not pulling his weight, he's not
Speaker 1: quite cutting it. Luckily, he's not here to defend himself,
Speaker 1: so I'm here to step up and you know, be
Speaker 1: the face of this podcast. Um. This is a performance
Speaker 1: driven podcast and management has done a thorough review of
Speaker 1: your performance lately and you've come out flying. So we've promoted.
Speaker 1: You've got gonna see if we're gonna test you on
Speaker 1: the first line here, see if you can handle the
Speaker 1: big minutes, and then we'll review you after this show.
Speaker 1: I look forward to that, but I'm super I'm excited
Speaker 1: to have anybody it's just you and I and we
Speaker 1: also have Amy in studio with us and in Easton's
Speaker 1: here as well, So super intimate group today. You'll quickly
Speaker 1: find out why it's just the two of you, and
Speaker 1: then that's it and we're going to get into a
Speaker 1: serious conversation today. A few episodes back, we did a
Speaker 1: topic around me asking questions of fatherhood, and you weren't
Speaker 1: at that one because you're about to have your second
Speaker 1: baby and I want to know what fatherhood is like.
Speaker 1: And now you've had your second baby, and now we're
Speaker 1: going to do a deep dive into what that is
Speaker 1: truly like. So can you give us a little backstory here?
Speaker 1: How long ago was your second baby born? And and
Speaker 1: the what do you have? Boys? Girls? Just give our
Speaker 1: listeners a back a little context here. So our first
Speaker 1: son turned to about five weeks ago, and on that
Speaker 1: same week, our second son was born, so they're almost
Speaker 1: exactly two years apart. Our youngest is now five weeks old. UM,
Speaker 1: and it's exhausting, truly exhausting. Like are you just saying
Speaker 1: like as parents say, like it's exhausting or is like
Speaker 1: can you unpack for somebody like me and Amy that
Speaker 1: do not have kids by exhausting? Like what do you
Speaker 1: mean specifically? I have so many emotions going through my head.
Speaker 1: I am look. On the one hand, I'm like you,
Speaker 1: this is everything you've ever wanted, right, especially when you
Speaker 1: go through I v F. It's like you made the
Speaker 1: conscious decision to have another kid. We now have a second,
Speaker 1: perfectly healthy, happy son, and that is everything my wife
Speaker 1: and I have always wanted. Now, what I have come
Speaker 1: to find out in the last five weeks is that
Speaker 1: it is man on man, and it's dividing and conquering.
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to work a full time job, trying
Speaker 1: to maintain a marriage, trying to keep my two year
Speaker 1: old happy and running around and keep a five week
Speaker 1: old from getting sick from the two year old, and
Speaker 1: a million things that. It's like, sleep is very minimal, Uh,
Speaker 1: there is no social life. It's a lot like I'm
Speaker 1: I'm at my wits end quite frankly, like I'm on
Speaker 1: the verge of a nervous breakdown. I mean that seriously. Wow,
Speaker 1: thank you, buddy, I appreciate you sharing. First off, I
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge you and your wife just for being
Speaker 1: parents to me. That's that's something I yearned for in
Speaker 1: my life. I can't wait. It's a it's something greater
Speaker 1: than any professional success or anything I could ever have.
Speaker 1: I really want to be the goals in my life
Speaker 1: that I had the biggest things in my life for
Speaker 1: to be a loving husband and a father one day.
Speaker 1: So I want to acknowledge you for being parents. I
Speaker 1: look up to parents. UM, have the utmost respect for parents.
Speaker 1: So UM, that's why I want to ask you all
Speaker 1: this stuff. So I want to learn. I want to
Speaker 1: try and prepare myself. Um. But when you say sleep
Speaker 1: is like almost non existent, can you unpack that for us?
Speaker 1: Like so much? Would you sleep at night typically? I
Speaker 1: mean I I typically, Well, we slept trained our two
Speaker 1: year old when he was like three and a half
Speaker 1: months months, which is pretty early. But uh, by night three,
Speaker 1: we had him sleeping eleven to twelve hours a night
Speaker 1: and he's done that since three and a half months
Speaker 1: till two years old. So we knew, my wife and I,
Speaker 1: that was our sanity. We knew at seven o'clock he
Speaker 1: was going to go down. After we began the bedtime
Speaker 1: routine at like twenty of did the pajamas, did the books,
Speaker 1: to the teeth brushing, all that put him down At seven,
Speaker 1: we retreated to the living room porta cocktail, glass of wine,
Speaker 1: had our dinner, watched our show, like two hours of
Speaker 1: just us time catching up. That was very important for
Speaker 1: our sanity and for our marriage. Um, now we we
Speaker 1: go through that same bedtime routine, but one of us
Speaker 1: has to be holding a baby who's you know, not
Speaker 1: comfortable or hungry or tired or cranky or whatever, while
Speaker 1: our two year old wants both of us present to
Speaker 1: be doing the full bedtime routine he's now become accustomed
Speaker 1: to over the course of two years. And we put
Speaker 1: him to bed finally, and then we retreat to the
Speaker 1: living room where we now have an infant, a newborn
Speaker 1: who needs to be breastfed, where my wife is trying
Speaker 1: to juggle, like holding a plate of food while she's
Speaker 1: shoveling down that food, and like it's just a million
Speaker 1: things going on that we never have time to kind
Speaker 1: of like decompress. There's always someone needing us to help
Speaker 1: keep them alive or put them to bed or feed
Speaker 1: them or whatever. And it begins to wear on you
Speaker 1: over a period of time. And I would say, is
Speaker 1: like I approach this from a pragmatic standpoint, I think,
Speaker 1: which is like, how can we divide and conquer and
Speaker 1: both kind of not spread ourselves so thin. So because
Speaker 1: my wife is getting up every hour and a half,
Speaker 1: that that's the one thing with our newborn. He's great.
Speaker 1: He's a great baby, not colloquy. Whatever he is needing
Speaker 1: to be fed, they call it cluster feeding, but like
Speaker 1: he's he needed to be fed every ninety minutes for
Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day, every ninety minutes, and that
Speaker 1: feeding takes about thirty minutes to do, so if you
Speaker 1: do the math, sixty minutes in between correct. And so
Speaker 1: we began in the in the first few nights where
Speaker 1: he was in a what they call a dock and top,
Speaker 1: which is like a little padded bumper mini thing that
Speaker 1: was between the two of us in our king sized bed.
Speaker 1: He would lay in there. She would set her alarm
Speaker 1: or hear him waking up, feed him, and I was
Speaker 1: on the other side of him, waking up every time
Speaker 1: she woke up, because she had to turn the lights
Speaker 1: on low and like begin the eating, then do the burping,
Speaker 1: change him. That whole thing is like a whole process
Speaker 1: where I was waking up every time she did, and
Speaker 1: I said to her, this is not efficient and it's
Speaker 1: just not. It doesn't make sense. So I think I
Speaker 1: should sleep in another room so as to like have
Speaker 1: one of us getting sleep, and then I'll pick up
Speaker 1: a bottle feed for the first feed so you can sleep,
Speaker 1: and I'll do that in my room and vice versa. Right,
Speaker 1: did you guys do that on the first child? The
Speaker 1: first child, we did not. Uh. Well. I eventually sept
Speaker 1: in another room, yes, like after the first week or
Speaker 1: two because for the same reason, which is like there
Speaker 1: was no reason for both of us to be up,
Speaker 1: and she was like, you had to go to work,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's no sense of both of us
Speaker 1: being up, which I appreciated. Um. The other thing is
Speaker 1: like he's like, you'll find the babies they're constantly like
Speaker 1: choking a little bit during their sleep where they're struggling
Speaker 1: to breathe through their nose, and like I'm laying there,
Speaker 1: never fully asleep, like I did. You just stop breathing
Speaker 1: because it doesn't sound like he's breathing, and then finally
Speaker 1: like clears it. And while the pediatricians like they have
Speaker 1: the best gag reflects ever, like they'll never choke, they'll
Speaker 1: be fine. Your human instinct is you're laying there and
Speaker 1: you're like, can I fully fall asleep right now or
Speaker 1: do I need to make sure my son is not dying?
Speaker 1: So then you're never getting that rem sleep, which as
Speaker 1: we know, is very important. Uh So here's where we go.
Speaker 1: So I say, okay, I'm gonna sleep in the other room.
Speaker 1: We have a three bedroom house, our guest room. I
Speaker 1: had to take the guest bed down before our new
Speaker 1: son was born and make that our second nursery. The
Speaker 1: one bedroom is my first sons. Now the second guest
Speaker 1: bedroom has become the second nursery, so I don't have
Speaker 1: a guest bed in there anymore. So I had to
Speaker 1: make a trip to Costco to get an air mattress
Speaker 1: that I've been now sleeping on for five weeks. My
Speaker 1: back is killing me, but I'm trying to get sleep,
Speaker 1: and we gotta get rid of that air mattress. Where
Speaker 1: where did your mattress go? That was in the spare bedroom.
Speaker 1: The air mattress has a USB port, though it's an
Speaker 1: arrow book. I'm amazed by that I can charge my iPhone.
Speaker 1: And which is where did your spare mattress from your
Speaker 1: second bedroom go? I had I had to sell, No
Speaker 1: I built, I bought a shed and then had a
Speaker 1: hand our handyman guy come build it with his son,
Speaker 1: and I paid more in labor than I did for
Speaker 1: the freaking shed itself, which drives me insane. But that's
Speaker 1: in the backyard now. With the bed and the mattress
Speaker 1: and everything put away, you gotta go wherever. So this
Speaker 1: is my advice because I've slept here. When I bought
Speaker 1: my house in d C, I had no bed. The
Speaker 1: first thing I bought from my house was a set
Speaker 1: of drums, and I slept on a I slept on
Speaker 1: a uh inflatable like blow up mattress for like a
Speaker 1: week because I didn't have a bed yet, and then
Speaker 1: I was like, it was terrible. It was just awful.
Speaker 1: And then I finally bought a bed, and so, knowing
Speaker 1: how bad I felt at that time, you've been sleeping
Speaker 1: on one five weeks. I'm coming over today to hit that, like,
Speaker 1: stab that thing with a knife so that you can't
Speaker 1: sleep on it, and all haul your mattress from your
Speaker 1: shed back into your house. You have to have a
Speaker 1: good mattress. Yeah, we have. We bought a daybed, so
Speaker 1: we have a new crib in there. We have a
Speaker 1: day bed, but the day bed will become my firstborn's
Speaker 1: regular bed when he gets out of the crib. But
Speaker 1: the mattress is super super soft, which is not good
Speaker 1: for my back. Okay, answer this. Can we get your
Speaker 1: mattress from the shed into the house in place of
Speaker 1: where the bell. We'll solve the mattress problem. Keep going,
Speaker 1: I will solve that. So we have tons of sponsors. Casper,
Speaker 1: we got the mattress. Okay, Casper, are you listening, Casper,
Speaker 1: get this man a bed. So the other issues of
Speaker 1: my wife is like, look, she we had to come
Speaker 1: to Jesus moment the other week where she was like, Ryan,
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest, Like we we have no connection
Speaker 1: or physical touch with one another at all. We're kind
Speaker 1: of like two ships passing in the night. She acknowledges
Speaker 1: that we're both trying to keep these kids alive and
Speaker 1: we're doing the best we can, but we're kind of
Speaker 1: like coexisting in many ways, which is tough mentally. And then, uh,
Speaker 1: the the flip side is like she's like, look, I
Speaker 1: feel like you haven't been very present with the baby.
Speaker 1: Like I'm just being honest, I feel like you're not
Speaker 1: there with him, Like I'm he's constantly attached to me,
Speaker 1: and like it's you wanted to have this kid just
Speaker 1: as much much as I did, and you're not really
Speaker 1: like doing much with him, like which hurts, And I said,
Speaker 1: I get it. I actually acknowledge. You're absolutely right that
Speaker 1: I'm not doing as much with him. Uh, there's two
Speaker 1: reasons for doing so. The first of which is a
Speaker 1: my milk hasn't come in yet and I'm not lactating,
Speaker 1: so I have the she did h. I said, I
Speaker 1: don't have the ability to breastfeed, which you do, And
Speaker 1: so I am looking at what strengths I have and
Speaker 1: what are your weaknesses. You're breastfeeding every hour and I
Speaker 1: can take our our son or two year old out
Speaker 1: to the park and like run he wants to run around.
Speaker 1: The kid's got so much energy, Like she can't do that.
Speaker 1: So I'm with him all day, like on the weekends,
Speaker 1: dividing and conquering. So it's not that I don't love
Speaker 1: our baby. It's really like, I'm just trying to cater
Speaker 1: to my strengths, which are the ability to deal with
Speaker 1: a two year old who wants to run around and
Speaker 1: just like not sit still. Are you having issues bonding
Speaker 1: with the baby. A lot of men do I do.
Speaker 1: I feel honestly, like it happened last night, like when
Speaker 1: I I've now been more proactive and saying like let
Speaker 1: me hold him, especially because the two year old wants
Speaker 1: just mom to do so much that like that she
Speaker 1: used to do that she now can't. So when I
Speaker 1: hold the baby, he's never I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: a maternal instinct that I would obviously lack, but he's not.
Speaker 1: I can't get him comfortable, like she can like position
Speaker 1: him in a way that like he can just like
Speaker 1: fall asleep and be comfortable. Well, I don't have that ability.
Speaker 1: So I am like constantly on edge. And this weekend
Speaker 1: she said to me, she's like, it's important for me
Speaker 1: to be able to, like I'm in the house like
Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day sometimes like I need to
Speaker 1: be able to get out from my own sanity. So
Speaker 1: she went to yoga, and she did it when both
Speaker 1: of them were awake, not when our two year old
Speaker 1: was napping and I had one on two and it
Speaker 1: was severe anxiety, like the baby was constantly crying. The
Speaker 1: two year old wanted to do crayons and this and that,
Speaker 1: wanted to go outside, play with the water table, wanted
Speaker 1: to go to the park. I can't do all those things.
Speaker 1: And I'm like looking at the clock being like what
Speaker 1: time is yoga over? What time is she gonna be home?
Speaker 1: Like when can this end? Yeah? So here here's a question.
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharingybody, this is this is this is
Speaker 1: real stuff, like this is Brian's life going on. Um
Speaker 1: for this might sound silly, but I just don't know.
Speaker 1: What can you do with a five month or five
Speaker 1: week old as a men? Can you bottle feed it?
Speaker 1: Like you mentioned bottle Can you do that multiple times?
Speaker 1: Can they only do it once? I just don't know.
Speaker 1: Good question. So here's where we are. You can, Yes,
Speaker 1: you can bottle feed them. Now with this child, my
Speaker 1: wife is elected not to pump her breast milk. Why
Speaker 1: because that one hour turnaround that you just mentioned that
Speaker 1: then becomes like a half hour because if you're pumping
Speaker 1: as well, you're spending another half hour to pump for
Speaker 1: a bottle to store the milk, so you're getting even
Speaker 1: less sleep. So what she has elected that we do
Speaker 1: is to supplement one bottle a day my nighttime feed
Speaker 1: with formula. So I have formula that I do at
Speaker 1: like midnight, I go in and give him that that
Speaker 1: formula bottle. Now the issue is, uh, I have said
Speaker 1: to her, I'm like, look, I want to help out.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to do this and like sleep less and
Speaker 1: do the bottle feed so that you can get like
Speaker 1: a decent chunk of time that you can sleep. Because mentally,
Speaker 1: her thing is like she goes to bed and knows
Speaker 1: I have to now wake up in an hour and
Speaker 1: a half or then she's looking at the clock being like,
Speaker 1: I need to fall asleep now. I need to fall
Speaker 1: asleep now, which is like a vicious cycle because you
Speaker 1: then finally are about to fall asleep and you're like great,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get thirty minutes, and then you're up again
Speaker 1: and you can't function. But the issue that I raised,
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm a bad person for doing so, is
Speaker 1: simply like I have to go to a like job
Speaker 1: at an office all day. And that's not to say
Speaker 1: you don't have a job being home and like how
Speaker 1: like keeping these kids alive and doing everything you're doing.
Speaker 1: I'm not here to belittle that, but I also have
Speaker 1: to go into an office and like lead a meeting
Speaker 1: and go have like fifteen people in a room where
Speaker 1: I'm trying to sell them on a vision or an
Speaker 1: idea and be charismatic and like convincing and articulate. And
Speaker 1: I can't do that if I am getting up every
Speaker 1: you know, and only having four hours of sleep, my
Speaker 1: body won't function that way. And and by the way,
Speaker 1: our livelihood depends on my ability to do exactly that.
Speaker 1: So like without if I'm inadequate in my job, I
Speaker 1: can't pay for anything. Like you have no family here, right,
Speaker 1: We have no family at all, no none in l
Speaker 1: A that can help. And Amy is my pseudo therapist
Speaker 1: health and you ignored it though you don't like help,
Speaker 1: I don't because then I'm gone. You don't owe me.
Speaker 1: But this is where that comes comes up. I offered,
Speaker 1: no you did. I realized that it checks you back.
Speaker 1: Amy's Amy's my pseudo shrink in that. Amy Her philosophy, though,
Speaker 1: is like just throw money at it. Throw money at it.
Speaker 1: And it's like the night nurse thing is like anyone
Speaker 1: listening around the country outside of l A or maybe
Speaker 1: New York right now is like a night nurse, like
Speaker 1: sack up, like plenty of people to I was like,
Speaker 1: let me bring dinner over so that it's one less
Speaker 1: thing to have to deal with. But you're very um
Speaker 1: hesitant to take help. I also reached out to and said,
Speaker 1: can I help in any way with anything? And our
Speaker 1: friend Joe Smith, he just had their third boy, and
Speaker 1: I asked him the same thing, can I help with anything?
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't know. I don't know, man, just
Speaker 1: that you shut me down. You said, no, you can't
Speaker 1: help with anything, because then I would owe you one.
Speaker 1: And Joe was like, I don't know anything helps. And
Speaker 1: so I sent Joe a couple hundred bucks on Postmates
Speaker 1: so that he could just he wouldn't have to make supper,
Speaker 1: his wife wouldn't have to make supper. You could just
Speaker 1: order something in a couple of times. Um, you need
Speaker 1: to let people help. Your good friends wouldn't even ask,
Speaker 1: They would just send Brooks, you said send flowers. That
Speaker 1: was actually your respond. If you want something, send me flowers.
Speaker 1: Have you asked anybody during this the birth of your
Speaker 1: second boy the last five weeks, have you asked anybody
Speaker 1: for some assistance? Um? No, Brooks will talk about this,
Speaker 1: but you seem pretty emotional, like let it out. What
Speaker 1: are you feeling about all this well, like the the
Speaker 1: other thing that my wife said to me. And again
Speaker 1: this is not a knock on her, like where having
Speaker 1: these come to Jesus moments? But she was like, her
Speaker 1: biggest thing is She's like, look, from three am till
Speaker 1: six am every day, She's like, I do the feed
Speaker 1: and he won't go back to sleep. Like she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm holding him eat, like I try to hold a
Speaker 1: passifire in his mouth. He won't go back to sleep.
Speaker 1: And she's like, so I am up now, like from
Speaker 1: three am for the rest of the day. And she said,
Speaker 1: the only way I can get him to fall asleep.
Speaker 1: And we bought this thing called the snow, which is
Speaker 1: like high tech like rocks them in the crib and
Speaker 1: has like motion sensors and stuff. That thing doesn't work.
Speaker 1: I hope they're not a sponsor, because if they are,
Speaker 1: they're they're done. But it's a complete joke. Uh So,
Speaker 1: I mean that thing has like microphones in it that
Speaker 1: does swishing noises and like if it hears it crying,
Speaker 1: it picks up the speed with which it rocks him.
Speaker 1: And the it's a joke. Better just putting the kid
Speaker 1: on top of the dryer in the I have no
Speaker 1: idea what he's talking about. Don't do that, don't But
Speaker 1: so she's like, look, the only way I've been able
Speaker 1: to get him to sleep is like if I put
Speaker 1: him on my chest and he's been falling asleep on
Speaker 1: my chest, and like I've been falling asleep too, but
Speaker 1: it's dangerous. And I'm like, well, are you in the
Speaker 1: middle of the bed. She's like, I mean, as much
Speaker 1: as I can be, I guess. But like I'm like,
Speaker 1: well he could what if you crushed him or he
Speaker 1: fell off And she's like, yeah, so like it would
Speaker 1: be great if you helped me out for part of that,
Speaker 1: if you can, and and I'm like, well, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I can do that, because then I will
Speaker 1: not be sleeping at all. And she said, well, as
Speaker 1: long as you're okay with you know, the potential of
Speaker 1: him falling, I guess I'll continue to just have him
Speaker 1: on my chest. And I'm like, so, are you trying
Speaker 1: to like cover your basis here? Like I have to
Speaker 1: sign off now that if he falls off the bed
Speaker 1: and like onto the floor, that there's like I've signed
Speaker 1: off or like because and and that if that happens.
Speaker 1: It's because I've elected to choose sleep over the well
Speaker 1: being of my son. What if you just put like
Speaker 1: blow up mattresses all around the band it's a for you.
Speaker 1: Um with your first boy, did he also sleep in
Speaker 1: the bed with you for five weeks or however long
Speaker 1: after he was born? And is that? If so? Is
Speaker 1: it not? What is customary for a new parent? Does
Speaker 1: the baby sleep in the bed with the parents or
Speaker 1: does it sleep in it's a different room, not different room,
Speaker 1: not different like newborn's. Really the first few months, you're
Speaker 1: definitely in the room A and B. We're not that,
Speaker 1: we're not parents. Do you want to call him that? That?
Speaker 1: Like had our kids sleeping with us for very long.
Speaker 1: It was like for the first three months in a
Speaker 1: little padded thing where they just lay on their back
Speaker 1: and they're swaddled. And that's just for ease of being
Speaker 1: able to Like you're up so much that you just
Speaker 1: lean over and you get them. We have a bassonet
Speaker 1: next to the bed as well. That's just not as convenience.
Speaker 1: There's no they usually stay in the bassonet in the
Speaker 1: room for the first few months. The bassinet is just
Speaker 1: like a crib, like it's just like a little thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a little oval thing that's elevated that could
Speaker 1: you afford to help? I to me, it just sounds
Speaker 1: like you need help. I understand that, Like, but help
Speaker 1: meaning having a night nurse that you're paying thirty bucks
Speaker 1: an hour to know? What about someone during the day.
Speaker 1: We have a nanny. That's the other thing. Like, we
Speaker 1: have a nanny from eight thirty in the morning till
Speaker 1: to thirty in the afternoon that has been dealing that
Speaker 1: I've have signed off on and been all about from
Speaker 1: the very beginning, from the time just before my wife
Speaker 1: gave birth to our second We have a nanny that's
Speaker 1: there with my my two year old son, who takes
Speaker 1: him out of the house at eight thirty, feeds him,
Speaker 1: puts him down at twelve thirty, and he wakes up
Speaker 1: from his nap at like two thirty. And then my
Speaker 1: wife has two kids from two thirty till I get home.
Speaker 1: So here's a question to you, what would be the
Speaker 1: biggest thing that would help you? Guys right now, the
Speaker 1: biggest thing would without a doubt be a large monetary
Speaker 1: contribution from you other than the second with Casper. Are
Speaker 1: you listening uh new, you're how's my sex life? As
Speaker 1: I said, it's like we are coexisting, like it's it's tough,
Speaker 1: and like are you being affectionate or intimate or anything? Uh.
Speaker 1: We after we had to talk about like even just
Speaker 1: like hugging each other, which again it sounds so simple,
Speaker 1: but and I was dreading this whole conversation because Brooks
Speaker 1: is gonna sit here being like you need to suck
Speaker 1: her toes and make her feel loved. But point being,
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's easy to just say that in
Speaker 1: theory now, like as a Monday morning quarterback, like oh,
Speaker 1: you know, you need to car make time for yourselves
Speaker 1: and like tell her that you love or even if
Speaker 1: it's just one minute, which I can hear Brooks about
Speaker 1: to say, it's making me nauseous. No, not at all,
Speaker 1: but thank you. But it's just tough, like because you're
Speaker 1: you're just trying to juggle everything and yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1: And we need to be better about that. We acknowledge that.
Speaker 1: And we in two weeks are gonna uh take the baby,
Speaker 1: just the two of us away for two nights and
Speaker 1: her my my father in law is gonna fly in
Speaker 1: from Denver and watch our two year old for two nights,
Speaker 1: which is like, from a mental standpoint, something to look
Speaker 1: forward to is huge. That's awesome. Um. And by the way,
Speaker 1: no I have I have absolutely zero judgment or anything
Speaker 1: on that part of like on the relationship part of this,
Speaker 1: because even in my wife and I we we don't
Speaker 1: have kids, um, but even careers can pull us apart.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine having a two year old and
Speaker 1: a five week old sleeping. You guys know how much
Speaker 1: I love sleep, Like sleep to me is everything, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden that's like destroyed for both of
Speaker 1: you guys, and then trying to connect on top of that,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how difficult that was would be. And
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you guys don't love each other immensely,
Speaker 1: just like the factors contributing to lack of energy, lack
Speaker 1: of like all of that is the way through hell.
Speaker 1: Here's the other thing there is that there's a light
Speaker 1: at the end of the time you touch. You touched
Speaker 1: upon two things though. You and I are liking that,
Speaker 1: and my wife acknowledge it. Last week She's like, I
Speaker 1: just realized, like you you need more sleep to function
Speaker 1: than me, Like and I do like I was used
Speaker 1: to like going from like nine thirty pm falling asleep
Speaker 1: till like six am, and like I needed that. Plus yeah,
Speaker 1: and and then the the other thing that you love
Speaker 1: most in life is the ability to work out, which
Speaker 1: I my routine up until the newborn was I would
Speaker 1: work out every morning before work. And now I started
Speaker 1: from my mental sanity, Like that's a huge thing to
Speaker 1: like sweat and work out, and then you lose that
Speaker 1: because you're sleep you have to prioritize over being able
Speaker 1: to work out. And then the other times I've tried
Speaker 1: to set my alarm for an hour earlier than I
Speaker 1: typically would get up to get my two year old
Speaker 1: up to get his breakfast done. Like now I'm I'm
Speaker 1: working out on like four hours of sleep, and I
Speaker 1: it sucks and it's just impossible. Yeah, it's and you
Speaker 1: actually you're you're half there, you're half not. You're just
Speaker 1: like trying to survive, literally, is what it feels like,
Speaker 1: versus like, yeah, this makes me feel good. I feel
Speaker 1: I feel I'm energized, I feel energetic. Um, feeling confident.
Speaker 1: Let's go to work. Boom my mom, I'm dialed in
Speaker 1: at work. Um, I can't imagine what that's like. Man.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really like empathizing here with you. Um. But
Speaker 1: good news is we have somebody that's going to help
Speaker 1: you with this, and it's not Yeah, we're gonna call
Speaker 1: our our our family and relationship therapist Gavin to grow
Speaker 1: to weigh in on what it's like to be married
Speaker 1: with two young kids. We'll get to our our help
Speaker 1: for you, my friend, right after this break back from
Speaker 1: break This is a special fatherhood edition of How Men Think.
Speaker 1: And I want to thank you. Ryan called it a
Speaker 1: birth control Yeah he did. He message me He's like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be birth control for you, Brooks. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna want to have kids after this conversation. But um,
Speaker 1: I want to acknowledge you, buddy, for being raw and
Speaker 1: vulnerable because a lot of people would say, oh, having
Speaker 1: kids is just the greatest, and that's just like that's
Speaker 1: all they would say. But the point of this show
Speaker 1: is to dig in deep to men's emotions, what we
Speaker 1: really truly going are going through, and so I want
Speaker 1: to acknowledge you for opening up and sharing that vulnerable
Speaker 1: area of your life. I commend you, um. And as
Speaker 1: I said before the break we have some help here
Speaker 1: to assist you, to help you get through this. It's
Speaker 1: not Casper. We don't have a bad coming yet, but
Speaker 1: we'll work on that. But we do have Dr Chris
Speaker 1: Taylor coming on a special guest. He's a licensed therapist.
Speaker 1: Chris is a nationally recognized expert on family issues, having
Speaker 1: spent over seventeen years working directly with parents and their families.
Speaker 1: He's a highly sought out, sought out speaker. He's also
Speaker 1: an author of the book Back to Basics. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: a parenting program, husband, father, This man can do it all.
Speaker 1: We're gonna bring him on right now to help you out.
Speaker 1: My friend, Chris, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. How
Speaker 1: you guys doing great? Appreciate you coming on. We got
Speaker 1: Ryan here ready for you, Chris. And he's a trainer
Speaker 1: at Chris. He's a real hot mess. Um, Chris hurts
Speaker 1: when I hear firsthand. Chris, Can you give us a
Speaker 1: little bit, uh, and our listeners a little bit on
Speaker 1: your background? I give you a brief intro there, but
Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit more about your
Speaker 1: presence in this space? Yeah? I mean I think you
Speaker 1: covered a lot of it in that intro, just working
Speaker 1: with families for the past seventeen years and just kind
Speaker 1: of everything that goes into that. I'm sure you guys
Speaker 1: have talked a lot before he brought me on, um,
Speaker 1: you know, especially issues of being a dad. Um, just
Speaker 1: the stresses and and real life day to day struggles
Speaker 1: that we all go through and trying to figure out
Speaker 1: that kind of makes you know, there's the books what
Speaker 1: to do, and then there's the real life of how
Speaker 1: do you actually do that? And I think what happens
Speaker 1: is most of the time it's not in the book,
Speaker 1: So what you do when you kind of pick up
Speaker 1: that manual and what you need to do is in there.
Speaker 1: So UM, so I speak on these issues obviously, I
Speaker 1: do my private practice therapy with families that are struggling
Speaker 1: with a lot of these same things. And surely my
Speaker 1: passion my mission. So I'm happy to be on with
Speaker 1: you guys to come of talk about some of these things.
Speaker 1: Thank you, buddy, I appreciate your time. Um. You are
Speaker 1: aware of Ryan's situation all that's going on. Two year old,
Speaker 1: five week old, uh, trouble sleeping, trouble connecting with his wife,
Speaker 1: just kid, two year old running crazy. Um, what advice.
Speaker 1: Where would you start with somebody like Ryan, for any
Speaker 1: of our other listeners that might have young kids, Like,
Speaker 1: where would be the first place that you would look
Speaker 1: at in the scope of him and his wife's life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a good question because I think you know,
Speaker 1: especially as man, we always try to be the superman
Speaker 1: to do it all, all the fixers, um. But really
Speaker 1: what you have to start with is yourself, UM, and
Speaker 1: ask yourself, like, are you taking care of your own
Speaker 1: individual needs? It's a human being before you can give
Speaker 1: as a father, husband, and those are really kind of
Speaker 1: basic ways to do that, right, Just getting outside the house,
Speaker 1: making sure you're you're carving out some time to do
Speaker 1: things that you enjoy, whether you know, getting on the
Speaker 1: on the course and hid some golf balls or you know,
Speaker 1: joining a bowling league. I know that's kind of cliche,
Speaker 1: but just those things that break free of that normal
Speaker 1: sort of day to day can be super helpful so
Speaker 1: that when we go back into the stress stressful situations,
Speaker 1: we feel more you know, sort of recharged and able
Speaker 1: to deal with those stresses as they come. Can I
Speaker 1: just jump in if Ryan excuse my language, but if
Speaker 1: Ryan went to the golf course right now, his wife
Speaker 1: would literally be like, my husband is a like he sucks,
Speaker 1: So how is he supposed to do that without her
Speaker 1: just blowing up? Well, the other interesting thing to that point, Chris,
Speaker 1: which I think is a very fair point, especially with golf,
Speaker 1: which is like a four hour endeavor. But she she
Speaker 1: would be perfectly okay with me going to play golf
Speaker 1: so long as it was reciprocated with her being able
Speaker 1: to go do whatever she wants to do for the
Speaker 1: same amount of time that I went to do it.
Speaker 1: So what I would be thinking to myself would be
Speaker 1: the joy that I would have on that golf course
Speaker 1: would be severely overshadowed by the misery I would experience
Speaker 1: when I was alone with the two kids and having
Speaker 1: to keep them alive, Like it's not worth it to me.
Speaker 1: I'd rather be in kind of like purgatory where I'm
Speaker 1: consistently slightly miserable and not like in the in the
Speaker 1: the deep deep valley. Seriously is it? Yeah? No, I
Speaker 1: I hear you, And yeah, I think that vulnerability keeps,
Speaker 1: you know, to talk through those with your wife, to
Speaker 1: just name it, you know, is I have this guilt
Speaker 1: for my own personal enjoyment because I feel like there's
Speaker 1: punishment that's going to come on the other side. And
Speaker 1: and it's hard because you're naming that punishment as time
Speaker 1: with your family right or time with your kids. But
Speaker 1: saying that because I'm so burnt around the edges right now,
Speaker 1: that's what it feels like to me. It feels like
Speaker 1: I literally have nothing to give when I'm in it
Speaker 1: just NonStop. It feels like I'm under attacked and I
Speaker 1: have none of that time to really be present in
Speaker 1: any one area of my life. So you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: just describing as that purgatory like you just did, I
Speaker 1: think it's super important. It's gonna be hard for her
Speaker 1: to hear, but I think that realness, in the authenticity
Speaker 1: is you have to go there Otherwise what do you do?
Speaker 1: And you're just sort of playing a game and crushing
Speaker 1: yourself in the process, and you know, for your life,
Speaker 1: for you, for your kids the long run, that's not
Speaker 1: gonna be good for anybody. You. One of our very
Speaker 1: first Hell Men Think episodes you touched on that you
Speaker 1: said you had like man guilt anytime you went away
Speaker 1: on business trip or a guy's trip or something. You
Speaker 1: said you couldn't even really enjoy yourself. You didn't want
Speaker 1: to come home and say I had the best time
Speaker 1: ever because you felt guilty about it. I want to
Speaker 1: downplay how good or fun it was if I know
Speaker 1: that she wasn't having as much fun while home. But
Speaker 1: but on this side, you're saying, on this agreement that
Speaker 1: Chris proposed, she would also have this turn of for herself.
Speaker 1: So maybe at home during the time you were away,
Speaker 1: maybe she was like juggling the two kids, but she
Speaker 1: knows she's got X amount of hours coming up tomorrow
Speaker 1: or the next day or something where she gets to
Speaker 1: go to yoga or meditation, to have lunch with a friend,
Speaker 1: whatever her chosen activity would be. I just know I
Speaker 1: would be on that golf course. I'd be Okay, we're
Speaker 1: on the back nine. Now, we're around the bend, that
Speaker 1: much closer to me doing double duty with two kids,
Speaker 1: like spraying balls all over the place because I'm losing
Speaker 1: my mind at what I'm about to be in four
Speaker 1: Could you do four hours with the two kids? You
Speaker 1: couldn't pull it off? I mean, would they live? Yes?
Speaker 1: Would I just be miserable? Yeah? Like I think once, Uh,
Speaker 1: if the easiest thing for me. And what what she
Speaker 1: my wife typically does is she will go to yogur
Speaker 1: do whatever she wants to do over a nap for
Speaker 1: the two year old, which is like a two and
Speaker 1: a half hour nap. I can man on, man, I'm fine,
Speaker 1: but it's having the two is difficult for me. And
Speaker 1: and look credit to her because when I'm away late
Speaker 1: at night for work or overnight somewhere for work, she's
Speaker 1: doing both the entire time, you know, doing the bedtime
Speaker 1: roteam for both of them. So it's it is possible,
Speaker 1: but maybe it's my inability to have a maternal instinct
Speaker 1: or familiarity doing it so many times that I'm not
Speaker 1: as comfortable, Chris. Is it typical? Ryan's not bonding with
Speaker 1: the baby as much. Is that typical? He's much closer
Speaker 1: with the two year old. It's a better relationship, closer
Speaker 1: with my two year old. But yeah, I don't bond
Speaker 1: as much with the baby, Chris, because I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm not as equipped to, uh, you know, keep the
Speaker 1: baby happy as my wife. So I choose to deal
Speaker 1: with the of your old who I know exactly how
Speaker 1: to make happy. Yeah, I mean I think it's it's
Speaker 1: fully reasonable. And and very common that you would have
Speaker 1: that experience because we're not sort of built to bond
Speaker 1: at that time with infants in the same way that
Speaker 1: the mother is. Um. I mean, you just look at breastfeeding.
Speaker 1: Unless you're gonna start trying to do that with your kid,
Speaker 1: You're in a whole another ball game with what you're
Speaker 1: able to do. And I think you know, dad's roles
Speaker 1: is typically as that play partner right at that stimulator
Speaker 1: of imaginary play, of excitement, of sort of outside stuff
Speaker 1: of adventure, and that only comes online when that kid
Speaker 1: really starts to be more mobile and active. A lot
Speaker 1: of guys that I talked to start talking about their
Speaker 1: fantasies of like when my kid is ten years old
Speaker 1: or when they're eleven years old, they can start being
Speaker 1: on a field, or they can start being involved in
Speaker 1: other activities. And that's why they really feel like that
Speaker 1: relationship is going to come alive. And I think because
Speaker 1: it does become more of a relationship then where you
Speaker 1: can engage in communication, you can have those you know,
Speaker 1: sort of deep down core value talks and you know
Speaker 1: kind of bestowed that wisdom that um, you know that
Speaker 1: we all has been kind of want to give to
Speaker 1: uh to our kids. So and I think that's part
Speaker 1: of it too, not guilty yourself and shaming yourself. Well,
Speaker 1: something's wrong with me because I can't there's my incidant.
Speaker 1: This is my child, and it should be just in
Speaker 1: this like constant state of euphoria. I think you have
Speaker 1: to be raw and honest. They know. There's times when
Speaker 1: I look at that kid and I think you're the
Speaker 1: reason that me and my wife aren't close. You're the
Speaker 1: reason I'm not getting my free time. And it's not
Speaker 1: that you're attacking your child, are blaming it, or wanting
Speaker 1: any ill will towards it. It's just that you're being
Speaker 1: honest within yourself about what that deeper, you know, emotion
Speaker 1: really is. Yeah. The other thing that I'm curious what
Speaker 1: you think about is when I get home from work
Speaker 1: and it's you know, there are times when it's like
Speaker 1: my wife has just dealt with the two kids and
Speaker 1: they've been a nightmare and she is at her wits end,
Speaker 1: fried and it's that that very common um situation where
Speaker 1: the wife. Then you walk in the door and before
Speaker 1: you can put your stuff down, the baby is handed
Speaker 1: to you. And it's like I've been dealing with this,
Speaker 1: hold the baby, now you need to deal with it.
Speaker 1: And in my what I've said vocally is like, I
Speaker 1: have just been at work all day and I also
Speaker 1: need a break. So for me to come home after
Speaker 1: being at work all day and immediately jump right into
Speaker 1: this is like it's just it's daunting. It's like when
Speaker 1: so then I'm constantly saying, Okay, get to seven o'clock
Speaker 1: because that's when the two year old goes down and
Speaker 1: then you'll have a little relief. But you're looking at
Speaker 1: the clock the entire day saying five hours till seven o'clock,
Speaker 1: four hours still seven o'clock, and it's it's tough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and again I would say that's the common experience.
Speaker 1: You know. We think that it's just like this other
Speaker 1: side of things where we're just so happy and here,
Speaker 1: let me help you, and you go take your breaks
Speaker 1: and I can just but no, you know, we're kind
Speaker 1: of miserable. We feel like we lost that earlier part
Speaker 1: of our lives. We feel scared that we're never going
Speaker 1: to get that back. We look at that need for
Speaker 1: physical contact and then see intimacy with her wives and
Speaker 1: she's backing away from us. Because she's like I just
Speaker 1: need to retreat, I need to go take care of myself,
Speaker 1: and you're then stuck in that role. Was like, well,
Speaker 1: you either have to do everything and just shake my
Speaker 1: way through it, or you know, I don't think there
Speaker 1: is kind of another or for a lot of men,
Speaker 1: they just do that. That's what I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you that I feel like it's the elephant in the
Speaker 1: room is do you have a lot of clients where
Speaker 1: this is when the man strays from the marriage. What
Speaker 1: do you mean by strays cheats? Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: it's the stress of it because it's such a game
Speaker 1: changer for relationships, and especially when it's your second you know,
Speaker 1: you feel like, Okay, we we conquered the mountain, right,
Speaker 1: we climbed to the mountaintop, we got through it, and
Speaker 1: then you're seeing like this light at the end of
Speaker 1: the tunnel. Right, it's like the water at the edge
Speaker 1: of the desert, and then you get to it and boom,
Speaker 1: you add the other one in and it's like, this
Speaker 1: is never gonna end. This is just going to be
Speaker 1: my life. And I think all of that like read
Speaker 1: playing of nostalgia and like the single man syndrome that
Speaker 1: we're like grafting greener. That all comes into play, and
Speaker 1: especially when there's that breakdown in intimacy. Sure, you go
Speaker 1: to work or you're at a coffee shop and that
Speaker 1: attractive woman gives you a smile from across the way,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of that like, hey, wow, somebody sees
Speaker 1: me for value other than or maybe I could engage
Speaker 1: in this life different than And you know, it can
Speaker 1: spread like wildfire in our minds because we're so susceptible,
Speaker 1: us needing that validation. So how do you bring back
Speaker 1: the intimacy in marriage? Let me say, Amy that that
Speaker 1: is not happening to me. Chris Amy began when I
Speaker 1: walked into the studio today by telling me I look horrible.
Speaker 1: So there's not a in the country that has given
Speaker 1: me remotely a look of anything. So you don't look great.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, but how you getting hideous is
Speaker 1: a good thing in this case, it's working for his
Speaker 1: wife for sure. So how when there's coop and diapers
Speaker 1: and breastfeeding and no one's sleeping and all these things,
Speaker 1: how do you even have intimacy in a relationship with
Speaker 1: all that sort of it just sounds. Yeah, it suffers,
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about it. I mean, I think that's
Speaker 1: when you enter into the you know, let's get a babysitter,
Speaker 1: let's get a parent, Let's get somebody that can help
Speaker 1: us out at least just for a few hours. Get
Speaker 1: outside the house, go on a date, get to know
Speaker 1: the person again outside of the stipers and the feedings
Speaker 1: and the lack of sleep. Um, even if it's like
Speaker 1: I don't want to get dressed up and go somewhere nice,
Speaker 1: can we just go sit somewhere away from this um?
Speaker 1: And then there's the sort of cliche rule of you
Speaker 1: talk nothing about kids, you're talking nothing about work, right,
Speaker 1: You really treat it almost like it's the first state,
Speaker 1: and you try to stimulate that sort of romantic appeal
Speaker 1: and get it that. You go back into the house
Speaker 1: and you're kind of back into that stress and the
Speaker 1: breakdown is still there. But with enough attention to each other,
Speaker 1: I think you can at least start to key in
Speaker 1: on the emotional intimacy and you know, over a little
Speaker 1: bit of time that's going to lead back to that
Speaker 1: physical intimacy returning. So, um, there's not an easy solution
Speaker 1: for it, but it's giving you, guys both permission to
Speaker 1: sell away at the same time and nurture your relationship
Speaker 1: because without a strong you know, marriage and parental units,
Speaker 1: I mean, the kids are gonna suffer. You guys are
Speaker 1: gonna suffer. It's not good for anybody. So, um, I
Speaker 1: know that's when dealty comes back and around and kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, try to bite you again. But it's like, hey, like,
Speaker 1: what are we really doing. Are we trying to sacrifice
Speaker 1: literally ourselves in our marriage for our kids or are
Speaker 1: we trying to strengthen ourselves that although at times may
Speaker 1: feel like we're sacrificing the kids, we're really not because
Speaker 1: I think you know, especially if kids get older, they
Speaker 1: need that break from parents and much parents need to
Speaker 1: break from them. So I love that. I think that's
Speaker 1: I was once told friends gave me advice once and
Speaker 1: I I asked parents about this because I think it's
Speaker 1: I'm curious on how parents look at it. Um. I
Speaker 1: was told, when you have kids, make sure that you
Speaker 1: put your partner first, because if you and your partner
Speaker 1: are strong, the home will be strong and the kids
Speaker 1: will have a permanently strong home, Versus if you constantly
Speaker 1: put kids first. Kids first, kids first, the parents are
Speaker 1: going to drift apart, and maybe that leads maybe it's
Speaker 1: not this year, maybe it's not next year, but maybe
Speaker 1: it's a couple of years down the road to a
Speaker 1: divorce or loss of connection or something. But um, I've
Speaker 1: asked a lot of parents this question, and the answers
Speaker 1: are honestly are like fifty fifty. Some are like no,
Speaker 1: my my wife and I we put our kids first,
Speaker 1: and some are like, yes, we put each other first
Speaker 1: and strengthen our relationship. And kids are tough, they'll they're
Speaker 1: okay if they don't go to the park today or something.
Speaker 1: But um, as long as we're strong, the home will
Speaker 1: be strong. What do you Which way do you lean? Ryan?
Speaker 1: You have kids, so actually, like, which way do you lean?
Speaker 1: As long as we're strong? Well, it's it's not like
Speaker 1: you're not going to feed your five year old like
Speaker 1: or five month old or five week old. Um, you
Speaker 1: have to do that. But like I loved I I
Speaker 1: agree with what you said, Chris, Like do you agree
Speaker 1: with that as well? Or which way do you look
Speaker 1: at it? I do agree with it, but like I'll
Speaker 1: give you an example. I'll be completely real for a second,
Speaker 1: like we as just to back up, and we went
Speaker 1: through IVF. So when you through IVF, you cannot have
Speaker 1: sex over the course of IVF because you're being pumped
Speaker 1: with hormones, You're you're doing shots into your stomach with estrogen,
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. So you you're not allowed to
Speaker 1: have sex because it's dangerous for there's so many follicles
Speaker 1: that are being stimulated. You're at the risk of having multiples. Uh,
Speaker 1: so you can't have sex. So I think we are
Speaker 1: in a position where that began a year ago, where
Speaker 1: you go through a long, long I VF over a
Speaker 1: year ago cycle of like you lose that intimacy or
Speaker 1: sex part of your marriage be per doctor's orders, legitimately,
Speaker 1: and then you finally get pregnant, and it was a
Speaker 1: tough pregnancy and you know, my wife did not feel
Speaker 1: great quite often. And so when you don't feel great
Speaker 1: and you're pregnant, you're not really clamoring to have sex.
Speaker 1: And so then you go through that whole pregnancy and
Speaker 1: then you give birth, and when you give birth, things
Speaker 1: happen where you have to be dormant again post childbirth
Speaker 1: so that everything heals properly and it's like you look
Speaker 1: at the calendar and that's a long run of a
Speaker 1: lack of intimacy for good reason. And maybe Amy's going
Speaker 1: to tell me I'm making an excuse, but like not
Speaker 1: that that really and and my wife and I have
Speaker 1: just talked about it, like that is tough too for
Speaker 1: a marriage, and again, like that was the cards that
Speaker 1: that was dictated for us because we had to adhere
Speaker 1: to certain but like that is very trying, and it's
Speaker 1: tough to feel like you're not just cohabitating and coexisting
Speaker 1: in a household when you have haven't had the ability
Speaker 1: to be that intimate for all the reasons I just
Speaker 1: laid out, So that weighs on both of us. It's
Speaker 1: a two way street, Like it weighs on us, and
Speaker 1: that that is very tough for me. How would you
Speaker 1: go with that, Chris? Just the compounding the year long,
Speaker 1: year plus long journey which lacks intimacy. How would you
Speaker 1: try And I mean you mentioned it about trying to
Speaker 1: get out of the house, but how would you go
Speaker 1: at that a little deeper? Yeah, I mean it's it's hard,
Speaker 1: especially for men because we crave that, you know, not
Speaker 1: say that women don't, but particularly crave that physical closeness.
Speaker 1: I think you try to achieve it by other means,
Speaker 1: you know, in the interim, with emotional intimacy, sharing vulnerabilities,
Speaker 1: trying or something. But yeah, okay you can too. But
Speaker 1: that's what came into my mind, like a little bit
Speaker 1: of sexting or something, just a little something. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: mean I think you've got to keep it interesting and
Speaker 1: keep it kind of flirty. Um, and you know, be
Speaker 1: cautious about developing the resentments of like what can't happen um,
Speaker 1: and try to focus on maybe what you can do
Speaker 1: in the interim. Um. You know, in physical touch obviously
Speaker 1: comes in a lot of different forms. There's not just intercourse.
Speaker 1: I mean there's you know, there's a touch and you
Speaker 1: when you when you when you say it like that
Speaker 1: you have me a hello, but um, um, all fut stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: and I think you have to have that conversation like, look,
Speaker 1: I have these needs and if these needs go on
Speaker 1: met like, it affects me emotionally, um, And taking that
Speaker 1: risk to share that from that perspective, and I would
Speaker 1: say that your wife like understand that and wants to
Speaker 1: be able to give that to you. Obviously she has
Speaker 1: those restrictions because what her body is going through and
Speaker 1: that's difficult for her, but also asking her like, are
Speaker 1: there things that I can do for you physically that
Speaker 1: are stimulating, that you know, would give you that sense
Speaker 1: of connection? Well, like about Chris works is into sucking
Speaker 1: toes just saying no, but we don't want to go
Speaker 1: down that path. I say you try it. Hey, if
Speaker 1: you're if you're at a little stalemate here, I say
Speaker 1: you try IVF. Question, So, if you're not allowed to
Speaker 1: have sex during IVF, are you allowed to have you
Speaker 1: know what other stuff the O word, Like, is the
Speaker 1: woman allowed to have an orgasm? Yes? Uh, you're not
Speaker 1: You're not you basically you basically just turn off like
Speaker 1: you just like let's that was That leads to my
Speaker 1: next question, Chris, I wanted to ask you because I
Speaker 1: agree you can try those things. Is there also just
Speaker 1: another side of this where you just say, hey, this
Speaker 1: is a stage of life. Let's just battle and grind here.
Speaker 1: By the time the kid is four months old, he's
Speaker 1: going to be out of our bed and and let's
Speaker 1: just uh, let's just champion this. It's not that much further, Like,
Speaker 1: do you ever just resigned to that or you just
Speaker 1: or do you try to keep working at trying to
Speaker 1: build this intimacy and keep that present. Knowing that you're
Speaker 1: in this stage, you always got to be working at it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't sort of ever admit defeats this
Speaker 1: is just the way it's going to be. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think if you do go through those periods, because
Speaker 1: you know, obviously in any marriage there's going to be
Speaker 1: there with rough patches that you do a good job
Speaker 1: of communicating through it of what the real deeper feelings are.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe even things come up for a lot
Speaker 1: of us around rejection or abandonment. You know, we lean
Speaker 1: into a partner and we want that moment of connection
Speaker 1: and they're tired or you know, they're frustrated about the
Speaker 1: kids and they pull away. We can feel that from
Speaker 1: a personal perspective of you know, they're rejecting me because
Speaker 1: of me um and kind of lose tracks. So if
Speaker 1: we're even going it's deep, you know, emotionally and from
Speaker 1: a place of vulnerability in that way to share Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm feeling really rejected. I know it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily you doing that to me, but but this is
Speaker 1: this is my emotional experience. I think those things can
Speaker 1: really bring couples closer and try to you know, bridge
Speaker 1: those times where you know, maybe it is six months,
Speaker 1: a year or two years where there's just maybe not
Speaker 1: much if any of you know, that sort of sexual connection. Um.
Speaker 1: But I would never want a couple to resign to
Speaker 1: just while we're just going to kind of give up
Speaker 1: for the next four years and that's not going to
Speaker 1: be a part of it, because it's not going to
Speaker 1: end well. I mean, I think we all know that.
Speaker 1: And one of the things you said, Chris, I agree with,
Speaker 1: but I would I have a counter for you, which
Speaker 1: is me being completely real, which is you know, you said, look, obviously, uh,
Speaker 1: doctors can dictate inability to have sex for for medical
Speaker 1: reasons and all that, but there are other ways and
Speaker 1: things that you can do. You said that I can
Speaker 1: go to my wife and say, like, look, here's what
Speaker 1: I'm lacking, here's what I need. I know we can't
Speaker 1: have intercourse, but like, here's what I need and what
Speaker 1: I'm missing, And I had that conversation, and we had
Speaker 1: that conversation, and she was completely receptive and like was
Speaker 1: appreciative that I came to her and said that and
Speaker 1: wanted to help and make sure that we connected on
Speaker 1: some level, and the issue became It's like she felt
Speaker 1: this was during pregnancy. She felt so awful that in
Speaker 1: my head, I'm like, you know what, who am I Like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna while she's feeling like she's gonna puke all day,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna come say like I have needs. Here
Speaker 1: are my needs, Like you need to help me with
Speaker 1: my needs. It's like I feel like that is a
Speaker 1: pretty selfish thing for me to do. So I'm sitting
Speaker 1: back saying, you know what, dude, screw your needs, Like
Speaker 1: this is a period of time she feels like crap,
Speaker 1: you know, respect that and don't be demanding and asking
Speaker 1: her or laying out your needs like this is not
Speaker 1: your time to do that. I could give you another side.
Speaker 1: I could give you another side on that that it
Speaker 1: might make her feel good to fulfill your needs. I'm
Speaker 1: just throwing that out there. Yeah, and and like we
Speaker 1: had that like that happened, but it also it just
Speaker 1: was like a process of like it felt transactional and
Speaker 1: that she felt so awful that I knew that it
Speaker 1: wasn't like she was like really excited. Well, I could
Speaker 1: give you some other ideas off there, and I think
Speaker 1: to like going to that second level of like sharing
Speaker 1: that other experience of what you might think she's thinking
Speaker 1: through that process and not assuming that you know, but
Speaker 1: sharing it with her and see what she does with
Speaker 1: that additional information. Um. And also like it's not a demand, right,
Speaker 1: it's it's just you're putting it out there from a
Speaker 1: need perspective, but as like adults were actually be willing
Speaker 1: to hear the word though, and sometimes she may say
Speaker 1: I can't do that for you, and then that leads
Speaker 1: obviously to a different type of conversation as far as
Speaker 1: the feelings that come up, and you know, more of
Speaker 1: that vulnerability should come out in those situations so that
Speaker 1: at least again when it's not say the poll, strengthen
Speaker 1: the emotional intimacy. Um, Chris, we only have a couple
Speaker 1: more minutes left with you, but I wanna I wanna
Speaker 1: ask you one almost one final thing. So what I've
Speaker 1: listening to you here, what I've heard you say, and
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're saying communication through this whole thing
Speaker 1: is is paramount. Um. What other things for Ryan and
Speaker 1: for our other listeners that have young kids that are
Speaker 1: going through the same thing. What are some other things
Speaker 1: that you could say you really need to pay some
Speaker 1: attention or some focus on these sort of things individually
Speaker 1: and within your relationship some time apart, some time that
Speaker 1: makes you happy, communication between partners. What other things should
Speaker 1: UH couples be looking at and paying attention to in
Speaker 1: this stage of life. Yeah, I think just really being
Speaker 1: cautious about entrenching ourselves into negative thought patterns. Right, will
Speaker 1: will experience this flood of emotion and that becomes a
Speaker 1: reality that then we dwell, it's sort of lived, and
Speaker 1: you know, emotions aren't static. So try to find ways
Speaker 1: to enjoy fatherhood. Try to find ways to just break
Speaker 1: free with that older child and go to the park
Speaker 1: for you know, even if it's just ten fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: to really focus on building that bob and doing something
Speaker 1: that's emotionally uplifting with our kids. Um, because I think
Speaker 1: oftentimes we focus so much on ourselves and our spouse
Speaker 1: on the stress of it, that we don't leave a
Speaker 1: whole lot of time for fun um. And then you know,
Speaker 1: as men engaging other men in their experiences as well,
Speaker 1: not feeling like we have to pull back and remove
Speaker 1: ourselves from from just sharing that this is hard and
Speaker 1: it's overwhelming at times, and there's times where we're just
Speaker 1: in that dark room modern knees, broken down, asking ourselves
Speaker 1: like what did we do? How did happened? And that
Speaker 1: that's okay, Um, but there's no shame in that, And
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean we're a bad person or a bad
Speaker 1: dad or a bad husband. Means we're being a good human.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good women women do that all the time,
Speaker 1: and men don't do that as much. I don't think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: men feel on that's wonderful advice. M Yeah, men feel
Speaker 1: like and I feel like this and I don't even
Speaker 1: have kids, but that, um, whatever happens in our family,
Speaker 1: like I feel ultimately responsible for it, which sounds like
Speaker 1: you like you just bypass on your needs because your
Speaker 1: wife is not feeling good, so you're like just push it,
Speaker 1: Like how who am I to ask my wife to
Speaker 1: make me feel good when she's not feeling good. So
Speaker 1: I think men in general, and not saying women don't,
Speaker 1: but men in general have that like they'll sacrifice almost
Speaker 1: anything and that it all comes, not all, but at
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, they feel so much. Um,
Speaker 1: what's the word I'm looking for. Pressure? Is it? Is
Speaker 1: it pressure or just responsibility to like really really move
Speaker 1: the family through life, your obligation. I think men feel
Speaker 1: that is imperative, but I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: I think what Chris just said is amazing to say,
Speaker 1: like like men could admit defeat and be like like
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm I'm busted down right now, Like
Speaker 1: I need help. This is what's going on, um and
Speaker 1: allow your wife the chance to step into that and
Speaker 1: support you. And it's something I've done in my own
Speaker 1: life lately. I've never done this in my life, and
Speaker 1: probably the last two months there's been times where I've
Speaker 1: really asked my wife like, hey, I'm really struggling with
Speaker 1: something right now, and she's really stepped up to the
Speaker 1: plate and supported me. And it's been it's given me
Speaker 1: like a hundred times more energy and help me amazingly
Speaker 1: the rest of the week, the rest of the month,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Brian, you need to pay attention to
Speaker 1: that because Brooks is a man and he's willing to
Speaker 1: ask for help. You have a real issue asking for
Speaker 1: people to help you. Yeah, I fell asleep when Brooks
Speaker 1: was talking about Sorry, but so Chris, we'll let you go.
Speaker 1: But Ryan doesn't like to ask for help. He doesn't
Speaker 1: want to let me help, he doesn't want to let
Speaker 1: Brooks help, he doesn't want to let the neighbors help.
Speaker 1: He just doesn't want anyone helping because he feels like
Speaker 1: he owes them something. But I think he's doing himself
Speaker 1: a real disservice. Yeah, and I get that. I mean
Speaker 1: I think to some extent, you know, us as men,
Speaker 1: we all have that at different times, and there's only
Speaker 1: one way to get through it. And you just got
Speaker 1: to get over it and move forward and just say, hey,
Speaker 1: either either I break myself down and wreck myself emotionally
Speaker 1: and physically through this process, or I do the thing
Speaker 1: that I know is going to help me, and you
Speaker 1: kind of have that call out, gut check moments yourself,
Speaker 1: and then you just move forward and start asking for
Speaker 1: help and start naming the problems. And you know, not
Speaker 1: always have to have the solution either. Just naming the
Speaker 1: problem sometimes can be just that freeing sort of relief
Speaker 1: from you know, holding onto it. So I know it's hard,
Speaker 1: but we have to all as men, sup for each
Speaker 1: other to move in that direction. Well, Chris, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take this opportunity to ask you to help babysit. If
Speaker 1: you we'll give you my address off Fair and Look,
Speaker 1: it takes a big man to ask for help, but
Speaker 1: it takes a bigger man to actually offer their help.
Speaker 1: So thank you in advance for offering. You don't even
Speaker 1: say offering, you say for babysitting tomorrow tonight. I'll be
Speaker 1: there in five minutes. Chris, you're the marriages on the line, Um, Chris,
Speaker 1: you're the man. We appreciate you so much. For our
Speaker 1: listeners that want to find you, find more about you.
Speaker 1: Where can they find the book and where can they
Speaker 1: reach out and connect with you? Yeah, books on Amazon,
Speaker 1: So you can just do a Google search for back
Speaker 1: to Basics and it'll pull up. And then my website
Speaker 1: website is just Chris Taylor m FT dot com and
Speaker 1: so they can go on there find a lot of
Speaker 1: asial information about awesome buddy. Thank you very much. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna keep you on speed dial for when I have
Speaker 1: kids someday. But I thank you so much for coming
Speaker 1: online and helping Ryan out here. And then Ryan, I
Speaker 1: want to dig you more into this this help thing.
Speaker 1: After the break sounds good. Thanks Chris. All right, thank
Speaker 1: We talk about it all the time. We're not afraid
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Speaker 1: and use promo code h m T. Back from break
Speaker 1: this This has been This has honestly been one of
Speaker 1: my favorite podcasts. And Ryan just I think he's turning
Speaker 1: to a cocktail to survive this. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: just looked at the clock and I'm like, well, by
Speaker 1: the time I get home, it's cocktail hour. We should
Speaker 1: we should have had some like bourbon in here for sory.
Speaker 1: Do we have any alcohol? Do you want something to drive? Um?
Speaker 1: I want to. I want to. I want to unpack
Speaker 1: this story a little more. Buddy, thank you. I can
Speaker 1: acknowledge you enough and say thank you for opening up,
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people in our community
Speaker 1: can resonate with and and they maybe hide their feeling
Speaker 1: and say, oh, having kids is great, it's great, it's great.
Speaker 1: Here's the raw and reel behind having a kid. And
Speaker 1: that was the purpose of this show. When we started out,
Speaker 1: we said we're gonna be raw, authentic, organic, genuine, and
Speaker 1: you're giving absolutely vulnerable, sharing open in your heart to
Speaker 1: our community and hopes that this helps serve the community.
Speaker 1: So I just want to acknowledg you again, Buddy. I
Speaker 1: would just say, you feel guilty when you when you
Speaker 1: are vocally discussing how miserable you are for something that
Speaker 1: you fought so hard to get, which is a is
Speaker 1: a first and a second kid going shelling out tons
Speaker 1: of money, putting my wife's body through everything. It's you
Speaker 1: feel guilty being like I'm miserable. It's like you you
Speaker 1: know what you went through to get to this point,
Speaker 1: like this is everything you wanted, Like shut up in
Speaker 1: such a life, you work your ass off to get
Speaker 1: the job, you want to complain about it, that's okay. Um. Also,
Speaker 1: I want to touch on what you said about how
Speaker 1: it's been like a year long sort of journey of
Speaker 1: a leading toward a loss of intimacy because the IVF thing,
Speaker 1: my wife and I have been through it, and it's
Speaker 1: not like IVF just ends after two weeks or whatever
Speaker 1: and then oh boom, hey we're right back to it,
Speaker 1: Like there is a couple of months hangover from that
Speaker 1: where she still doesn't feel good, like it's it doesn't
Speaker 1: just end and okay, life is back to normal, Like
Speaker 1: there is a drawn out period and then if you're pregnant,
Speaker 1: you go right into that, you know, and then it
Speaker 1: just it gets it compounds and compounds and compounds. So
Speaker 1: I think that's super important as well, what you mentioned,
Speaker 1: and just to to empathize with you as well, like
Speaker 1: I know what we went through, but we didn't get
Speaker 1: pregnant coming out of it. But um, but so are
Speaker 1: you acknowledging that that you had a similar experience with
Speaker 1: respect to your what is now a very vibrant sex
Speaker 1: life that you have. Was that impact He doesn't have
Speaker 1: a perfect sex life. You tell him no, but like
Speaker 1: I'm curious he doesn't. He does now, but he didn't.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it more next week. We'll
Speaker 1: give him a little tar Okay, I'm an extremely happy man,
Speaker 1: I'll say that, but yes, I will say at that time, yeah,
Speaker 1: there was that was new to me too. I've never
Speaker 1: been through IVF. You know, we both of us, we
Speaker 1: had no idea what to expect. It's it's amazingly difficult
Speaker 1: on my wife's body and what she's going through. And
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, you do as a man,
Speaker 1: you you do still want to sexually connect. But I'm like, like,
Speaker 1: she just feels terrible, Like let me just like get
Speaker 1: like thank you get yeah, I I. And then it
Speaker 1: carries on for months after that. Yeah, and it's difficult,
Speaker 1: and then we had to work to like rediscover and
Speaker 1: and get our sex life to be back as a
Speaker 1: vibrant part of our relationship. But that is helpful for
Speaker 1: me to hear, because you know, it's easy in theory
Speaker 1: to say like, oh, no, you just I have I
Speaker 1: have needs, Like no, you feel like crap, like screw
Speaker 1: my needs, like I'm here for you, right, that's kind
Speaker 1: of what you did too. It's because you love your
Speaker 1: wife and I love my wife too, so you're you're like,
Speaker 1: as a guy, I'll just yeah, what do you need?
Speaker 1: Like I will table anything that correct. But women are
Speaker 1: like that too, so there are times when they might
Speaker 1: get a lot of pleasure out of giving pleasure. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at some point somebody has to make a first move
Speaker 1: back into the space, you know, and and that's a
Speaker 1: soft little dance that you figure you're out. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we did have a similar trajectory, and anybody else that's
Speaker 1: been through I v F I would bet probably has
Speaker 1: because it's not like you just do that, Okay, fourteen days, boom,
Speaker 1: here we go, we're back at it. It just doesn't
Speaker 1: go that way. It didn't for us anyway. UM. So
Speaker 1: I want to dig into something, um, which is this
Speaker 1: question for you? And and deeper than just like the
Speaker 1: surface answer, like what is it? Why is it that
Speaker 1: you are unable to receive help? Like really, what is it?
Speaker 1: It's a good question. I I mean, look first and foremost,
Speaker 1: I would say, maybe this is a cop out because
Speaker 1: I don't have family here, like I think it's easier
Speaker 1: to accept help from a family member because they are
Speaker 1: your blood. They are your family. That is what family
Speaker 1: is for. And yes, your arguments could be, but that's
Speaker 1: what friends are for. A second, Yeah, so like family,
Speaker 1: because I don't really have family, neither my wife Nora
Speaker 1: have family in Los Angeles, we now don't have that
Speaker 1: ability to just say, hey Mom, hey dad, can you
Speaker 1: just come over while we go out, like that's at
Speaker 1: the window. And so then you're left with friends, many
Speaker 1: of whom almost all of whom have their own kids. Right, So,
Speaker 1: like the grandparent thing is great because they they're retired
Speaker 1: and like their grandkids are their lives and they have
Speaker 1: nothing to do or don't want to do anything but
Speaker 1: help out and be with their grandkids. Like it's a
Speaker 1: it's killing two birds of one stone because this is
Speaker 1: exactly what they want, spending time with their grandkids, and
Speaker 1: like they're also helping you in the process, whereas a
Speaker 1: friend would be kind of being put out by offering
Speaker 1: their help and having to now take on an additional
Speaker 1: burden when they have their own work life balance that
Speaker 1: they're trying to juggle. So I think that's the biggest
Speaker 1: reason why but what But what if they're actually like
Speaker 1: in a really good spot where they're like, yeah, life
Speaker 1: is great, man, Oh you're struggling. I've buddy, I've been
Speaker 1: in there. I know what you're going through. How can
Speaker 1: I help? I told you I wanted to send dinner over.
Speaker 1: I meant it, and you're like ignored me. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say. And Brooks offered help
Speaker 1: and you ignored it. I think I told him to
Speaker 1: send flowers to the strip throughout awareness fun staff. I
Speaker 1: think it's fair what you're saying about the family because
Speaker 1: it is much easier. But I do think it's only
Speaker 1: two more months that it's going to be like horrendous,
Speaker 1: So why don't you let everyone help? You know, Like, look,
Speaker 1: we've had a few people that have sent food and
Speaker 1: that was really nice. But like, if I'm being honest,
Speaker 1: like the food thing is really nice and generous and appreciated,
Speaker 1: but like I'm also that that's you're giving me money
Speaker 1: basically because like I have, I have Postmates and Uber
Speaker 1: Eats and everyone this could be home cooked too, and
Speaker 1: then you have leftovers and the whole thing. We're not
Speaker 1: sending over Chipotle, although to Chippotle is delicious. I've been
Speaker 1: getting it every Sunday. It's pretty amazing. But I think
Speaker 1: you need to let Chicken come over and help with
Speaker 1: the kids. With the watching of the kids and the
Speaker 1: taking the kids. Yeah, here's a deal. When you have
Speaker 1: a five week old, like you can't really leave. You
Speaker 1: can't leave because you need to be breastfeeding the kid
Speaker 1: every hour or so. Yes, like but but so you're
Speaker 1: never You're always going to have that baby there, and
Speaker 1: that's fine, Like I guess, but I guess did you
Speaker 1: see how I said? I guess I'm just saying it's
Speaker 1: like it's great and there, No, we'll come watch the kids. No,
Speaker 1: you can watch one of the kids, but one is
Speaker 1: better than zero. Yeah, I guess you even said it.
Speaker 1: Like two weeks from now, your father in law's flying
Speaker 1: in and you're so looking forward to just having one,
Speaker 1: like even just that mental boot and we're because we're
Speaker 1: getting out of town to we're gonna stay in a
Speaker 1: hotel and like just like it'll yeah, we're gonna watch
Speaker 1: movies and it'll be just a change of scenery, just
Speaker 1: stuff that if the mood strikes. Amy. Wait, I have
Speaker 1: an idea. Can people call. Can you give the number
Speaker 1: easton so people can call that have been there and
Speaker 1: maybe their little secrets or tips that we don't know,
Speaker 1: or they can always email us at men at i
Speaker 1: heeart radio dot com. That's what Eastern We give the number.
Speaker 1: Take your time, east is there. I'm going to give
Speaker 1: Gavin cell just in case. M Is there anything else
Speaker 1: going on Ryan that we don't know? Like you unpacked
Speaker 1: almost everything for us, but is there anything else that
Speaker 1: we don't know? You have a few hours or are
Speaker 1: we on time? That time tells what he might be
Speaker 1: able to help with this. Yeah, I'll I'll launch and
Speaker 1: do exactly what I know Amy wants me to launch
Speaker 1: and do, which is we have a twelve year old
Speaker 1: Yorky Yorkshire Terrier named Gus that we've had forever. My
Speaker 1: wife had Gus when I met her. Gus had an
Speaker 1: incredible life when he was an only child quote unquote.
Speaker 1: Then the two year old came into the world not
Speaker 1: as a two year old, but as a newborn. Uh.
Speaker 1: But but with the first kid came less attention for Gus,
Speaker 1: less walks, less petting, less everything. And you're a dog guy,
Speaker 1: so I'm dying to hear what you think about all this.
Speaker 1: By the way, happy belated to your old birthday, Dakota,
Speaker 1: thanks buddy following your Insta stories. Nice to have a
Speaker 1: break from the workouts. Uh. And so then the newborn
Speaker 1: comes and Gus becomes even more territorial than he was before,
Speaker 1: where like he is now fighting almost literally for affection
Speaker 1: and like it sees these two babies, a toddler and
Speaker 1: a baby as threats to his livelihood and his attention,
Speaker 1: and so he his life has suffered. And we basically
Speaker 1: had this come to Jesus moment the other like a
Speaker 1: month ago. We're like, you know what, this is not
Speaker 1: fair to us, Like we don't it's something we don't
Speaker 1: love him anymore, but we just don't have the bandwidth
Speaker 1: two be dealing with two kids and also giving him
Speaker 1: the infection and the attention and the walks and all
Speaker 1: the things that he used to be accustomed to. So
Speaker 1: we had what some friends have dubbed to be a
Speaker 1: very selfish moment, where I would argue it's a selfless moment,
Speaker 1: and that we we went onto an adoption site to
Speaker 1: try to find a new home for Gus when he's
Speaker 1: lived with us for twelve years. Found a woman who
Speaker 1: lost her husband three years ago, who is seeking companionship.
Speaker 1: She's lonely, like she saw his photos online, fell in
Speaker 1: love with him, made her background on her iPhone his
Speaker 1: photo the minute she saw it before she even contacted us,
Speaker 1: which was a little weird in retrospect. Uh So, so
Speaker 1: we interview her over the phone, and she's like asking
Speaker 1: all the right questions. She's just like, doesn't have kids,
Speaker 1: can just be one on one with him. We're like,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is perfect. She drives an hour
Speaker 1: away to come see. As we meet her, we're like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna give you Gus. We give her Gusts, the bed,
Speaker 1: the food, everything. She goes home and for the past month,
Speaker 1: Gus has been living with her and she's texting us saying,
Speaker 1: oh my god, he's everything I've wanted in my life.
Speaker 1: He's so amazing, Like he sleeps with me, you know,
Speaker 1: all these things. Until last weekend. Last week on Friday,
Speaker 1: my wife gets a voicemail and this woman is like
Speaker 1: seventy years old, like the most mild mannered, like polite person,
Speaker 1: and she is aggressive on the voicemail and says, Gus
Speaker 1: has turned on me. I don't know what has gotten
Speaker 1: into him, but he nipped at my friend and he
Speaker 1: does not like strangers, and he mouthed me, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: what he mouthed you stuff? Yeah, like at least one
Speaker 1: of us is doing mouth stuff, and so I'm like okay,
Speaker 1: and so she calls us, and it's like I need
Speaker 1: to drop him off. I cannot deal with this stress,
Speaker 1: like I'm done with Gus. And we had like finally
Speaker 1: turned the page where Gus brought a lot of stress
Speaker 1: in our life too, because a or two year old
Speaker 1: was chasing him around and like hitting him with like
Speaker 1: plastic golf clubs, and he was miserable, quite frankly. And
Speaker 1: then he like, when the two year old will go down,
Speaker 1: then there to be a ups guy outside, and Gus
Speaker 1: would bark and wake the two year old up. Like
Speaker 1: I'm ready to lose my freaking mind with Gus. No
Speaker 1: offense Gusts. So finally we get rid of Guss, and
Speaker 1: it's like he's off to greener pastures with this seven
Speaker 1: year old woman who's like filled the void of her
Speaker 1: dead husband. And now all of a sudden, the tides
Speaker 1: turning Gusts is coming back and on Saturday, I greet
Speaker 1: this freaking woman out at the curb because I don't
Speaker 1: want her back in my house because I'm so piste
Speaker 1: off at her. And she's like here he is like,
Speaker 1: this is really upsetting for me, and I'm like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: where's the bed and the trunk. Just pop the trunk.
Speaker 1: I can carry the trunk the bed in. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I got it. Well, this is really upsetting for me.
Speaker 1: And I told my wife, I'm like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell her. This is right before I walked
Speaker 1: out side. I said, I'm gonna tell her. Oh, I,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that he attacked your friend and mouth
Speaker 1: qu um. In light of the fact that he's been
Speaker 1: so vicious towards you and your friend, I've arranged for
Speaker 1: him to be put down to And my wife was
Speaker 1: like lost her mind on me, like I will not
Speaker 1: talk to you the rest of the weekend. Are you serious?
Speaker 1: And I'm like no, like she I want her to
Speaker 1: have to live with the fact that she believes I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna get him put down, but I want her
Speaker 1: driving back an hour to Palm Dale thinking because of me,
Speaker 1: I this dog has now lost his life. I want
Speaker 1: her to live with that. I did not do so
Speaker 1: to preserve my marriage, but I wanted to, and instead
Speaker 1: I gave her the cold shoulder. I took us, I
Speaker 1: took the bed, I walked inside. And now he's back
Speaker 1: at home barking at the goddamn ups driver. Can we
Speaker 1: get the therapist back on the line, producer Tory? Can
Speaker 1: you take Gus? And my wife can't breastfeed on the
Speaker 1: couch because he's jumping up on her and we're and
Speaker 1: you're gonna keep Gus Now? Has a woman? Has a
Speaker 1: woman reached back out and said, hey, I'm sorry I
Speaker 1: was wrong. I want Gus back. No, she hasn't. She
Speaker 1: was probably scarred by the way I treated her curbside.
Speaker 1: But fine, So now I'm back to this this like
Speaker 1: adoption site where I'm reviewing. Don't have any friends that
Speaker 1: could take us. Well, here's the thing. A friend this
Speaker 1: weekend says, I tell him the story. He's like, this
Speaker 1: is unreal. He's like, his wife comes, He's like, tell
Speaker 1: Steph the story. I tell the story. Steph. This morning,
Speaker 1: I get a call in the way and he's like,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna believe this. Like they have three kids.
Speaker 1: He's like we promised them that we would get them
Speaker 1: a dog if they got good grades on their report
Speaker 1: card they have. Steph keeps talking about how she wants
Speaker 1: to get Gus. We weren't going to go buy a
Speaker 1: dog from a breeder, like we if we're gonna do it,
Speaker 1: we're gonna adopt. But like Gus is like a good dog,
Speaker 1: like I know you, I trust you, Like are you
Speaker 1: like what do you think? He's like? I don't know
Speaker 1: if I really want this to happen, but like the
Speaker 1: kids do, like do you think that's the universe? Give him?
Speaker 1: So he goes. But I would just ask, like if
Speaker 1: we have to go away for vacation this summer or
Speaker 1: this or that, you would take us? And I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: here's the deal. Don't want a family that has kids
Speaker 1: because he can be like we don't. I don't know
Speaker 1: how he's gonna be, And I don't want to live
Speaker 1: with like another person that three weeks from now calls me,
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I didn't. I've create problems that aren't there.
Speaker 1: You totally create problems that aren't yet real. I would
Speaker 1: rather find a single person who is going to devote
Speaker 1: their life another person I have twenty five applications that
Speaker 1: I'm sorting through as a second full time job with
Speaker 1: like all these people asking me is a non hypoologenic
Speaker 1: and also so let me let me acknowledge you again.
Speaker 1: So one, my heart breaks that you are at the
Speaker 1: point where you need to give us away because I
Speaker 1: know how much dogs mean to families, So that like,
Speaker 1: that's not an easy decision for anybody listening to things
Speaker 1: Ryan his wife just give this dog away. No, that's
Speaker 1: not how it happens. It's it actually brings validation to
Speaker 1: how much you guys are going through at the moment
Speaker 1: that you would even consider that and go through with that. Um.
Speaker 1: And I also love that you said, like you want
Speaker 1: to find one person that's going to dedicate their life
Speaker 1: sole to him. That just means that you love the
Speaker 1: dog so much, but you have it's a friend somebody
Speaker 1: that you trust who has three kids that really want
Speaker 1: this dog. I mean that could be amazing for Gusts
Speaker 1: and amazing for these kids. I said to him, I'm like,
Speaker 1: let me give you an analogy. This is like if
Speaker 1: I if you bought my car off me. The whole
Speaker 1: time you're driving it, You're like, yeah, no, the car
Speaker 1: looks great. I trust you you're great. Three months maybe
Speaker 1: six months from now, car needs a new air filter
Speaker 1: and needs a new catalytic converter. You're calling me being like, dude,
Speaker 1: the car you sold me needs a new catalytic convert
Speaker 1: I'm like, look, Gus needs teeth extractions. He's a Yorki.
Speaker 1: They have teeth issues. He's had extractions. That's gonna be
Speaker 1: an issue. He's also twelve years old. Like you may
Speaker 1: get three four years out of him. But like, while
Speaker 1: he's been in perfect health up until now, as is
Speaker 1: the case with human beings, you're gonna start to see
Speaker 1: more ailments in his later years in life. And if
Speaker 1: you're gonna be upset with me, that discussion, actually have
Speaker 1: that discussion laid out. This is what you're taking on
Speaker 1: when you take him. He's gonna say you sold me
Speaker 1: a lemon. No, he's gonna say, okay, I got it that.
Speaker 1: I agree. I shake your hand. As a friend. We're
Speaker 1: taking this on. He's a member of my family. Do
Speaker 1: you but you're not even giving him that check? Do
Speaker 1: you want us? I would love to host us for
Speaker 1: like a weekend to help you and your I'm not
Speaker 1: a dog person I know write your letters in I'm
Speaker 1: not a dog person. You should be, I know, I
Speaker 1: think i'd be, Like I think you should take us
Speaker 1: for like a weekend. I'm not taking us. So where
Speaker 1: do you think let's wrap this up, buddy, where do
Speaker 1: you think all of this is going? Where? How are
Speaker 1: you doing? Has this helped it at all? Like? What
Speaker 1: do you think your next step is? One? We got
Speaker 1: to get you a mattress that has to happen. Go home,
Speaker 1: take a knife to that blow up mattress. Stab that
Speaker 1: thing so you can't sleep on it. I think mouth
Speaker 1: stuff would do wonders for the both of you. I'm
Speaker 1: not kidding. I know I'm sounding funny, but like, I
Speaker 1: think you need a little time. Yeah, you may never
Speaker 1: see me again, and of you, this is my final farewell.
Speaker 1: Well at least you got to co host. Do you
Speaker 1: feel better, America? Thank you for listening. It's been nice
Speaker 1: knowing you. I think we should do this again and
Speaker 1: a few months though, because I think things are going
Speaker 1: to be a lot better in a couple more months
Speaker 1: when the baby's sleeping. Yeah, I I agree. Once we
Speaker 1: get to the phase where he's sleeping through the night,
Speaker 1: which we were able to do at three and a
Speaker 1: half months with our first then we're in the clear.
Speaker 1: If we could have our evenings, that's all. That's all
Speaker 1: I want is to be able to like put both
Speaker 1: kids down, go have a drink and talk about our day,
Speaker 1: watch Shark Tank, and go to bed. I love what
Speaker 1: he said. I love what Chris said. Is right when
Speaker 1: when you have that alone time with your partner that
Speaker 1: you don't talk about the kids and you don't work,
Speaker 1: that you like date each other again, I thought that
Speaker 1: was brilliant. Um, what's look like from this whole discussion today,
Speaker 1: what's one thing you're going to take and go and
Speaker 1: implement or try and make a change in either your
Speaker 1: life individually or your relationship with your wife? Like is
Speaker 1: there anywhere where you've listened today and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's two things. Two things. The first of which is
Speaker 1: Chris alluded to the fact that, um, I don't know
Speaker 1: exactly the worst he used, but basically that negativity is
Speaker 1: kind of like it gets negativity and it becomes a
Speaker 1: vicious cycle of sorts. And my wife and I actually
Speaker 1: this morning acknowledge that because it's become kind of like
Speaker 1: a competition for who's more miserable who who had to
Speaker 1: deal with the worst amount of stuff. So, like the
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning, when I'm out there dead
Speaker 1: like chugging double espresso's making Jude's waffle, which I can
Speaker 1: only give him two days a week now because he
Speaker 1: expects a waffle every day and he loses his mind
Speaker 1: when he's not a waffle, which I'm losing my freaking
Speaker 1: mind at avocado toast this morning, didn't want to eat.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I'm supposed to prove a point to
Speaker 1: you that you can't have a waffle every day. That's
Speaker 1: your mom told me to do this anyway. Uh, the
Speaker 1: negativity is like my wife will come out and she
Speaker 1: just like it's like a it's a thing where she
Speaker 1: comes out and she's like, he was awake from two
Speaker 1: to six and I couldn't do this, and I'm exhausted,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, well I got out to do
Speaker 1: the bottle and he wouldn't drink the bottle and la da,
Speaker 1: and like now I gotta go to work and then
Speaker 1: I have this meeting today and that meeting, and so
Speaker 1: you're kind of like going back and forth being like
Speaker 1: one upping each other for misery. And I think we
Speaker 1: need to make a conscious decision to be like and
Speaker 1: my wife said it to me, like, we have a
Speaker 1: short week in a holiday week. This week Christmas is
Speaker 1: coming out, my favorite holiday. Like let's just like go
Speaker 1: into it with a positive attitude and like deal with
Speaker 1: it and be happy and try to see the positive.
Speaker 1: You need to laugh a little and just laugh. If
Speaker 1: I were with funnier people and like yourself, I would
Speaker 1: laugh more, but I'm not. The second thing was, truthfully,
Speaker 1: genuinely that I've taken from this is I I take
Speaker 1: some solace in knowing that Brooks you dealt with some
Speaker 1: of what I experienced when Julianne was going through I
Speaker 1: v F and that it's like I'm not on an
Speaker 1: island like this only person who feels that way. Because
Speaker 1: when I talked to Amy off the air as my
Speaker 1: pseudo shrink, she just tells me that makes me feel
Speaker 1: like I'm the only person who feels this way, So
Speaker 1: I don't do that. She then also denies doing it,
Speaker 1: which is even worse. Um, nobody, You're not the only Wait,
Speaker 1: so you see how many people reach out to us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what I was going to touch on You're
Speaker 1: not the only one going through this. For anybody that
Speaker 1: is listening to this, that can resonate with this, please
Speaker 1: reach out to us. Here's our phone number one eight
Speaker 1: three zero seven. I took my three nieces once, they
Speaker 1: were like five, three and one for like a week,
Speaker 1: and I actually understood what depression was like. I was
Speaker 1: like this, I cannot do this. I was dirty, like
Speaker 1: the dirtiness, like I just had mac and cheese on
Speaker 1: my shirt, and it was just a big game of
Speaker 1: please don't die, Please don't die, Please don't choke, please
Speaker 1: don't die. I'm not doing anything great for any of
Speaker 1: you because my whole thing is just don't die, don't trip,
Speaker 1: don't fall, don't choke, don't punch her, don't die. I
Speaker 1: hate myself. I hate myself. I hate myself. We tried
Speaker 1: to see friends the other night and they're like, I
Speaker 1: was crappy at my job. I was crappy as their aunt.
Speaker 1: I was just in a load of crap. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: and then I got to say bye bye. Um okay,
Speaker 1: so someone else's job not to kill you. So reach
Speaker 1: out to us. Let us know if you have any
Speaker 1: tips or even if you just resonate with Ryan's story
Speaker 1: that number again Zo seventy seven or men at I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio dot com is where you can reach us
Speaker 1: with email or always on Instagram at how Men Think podcast.
Speaker 1: And if nothing good comes from this other than Casper
Speaker 1: and maybe Tito's Vodka coming to the forefront sponsorship wise,
Speaker 1: that would be really But before we go, can you
Speaker 1: give a little tease because next week I just want
Speaker 1: to let everyone know. Next week we are answering all
Speaker 1: your sex questions, like it is the sex episode to
Speaker 1: eat all sex episodes. Brooks has a tale to tell
Speaker 1: and we are going to reveal things. We're gonna reveal
Speaker 1: things that no one sees coming. Oh, Amy a mouth
Speaker 1: stuff glore. I can't wait for you to reveal things.
Speaker 1: You have a story about mouth stuff Brooks. Huh now,
Speaker 1: but I will say you were talking about, um, we're
Speaker 1: talking about sex before and I was like I raised
Speaker 1: the topic or I don't know if I said it,
Speaker 1: but energetic sex, Oh yeah, tell them a little just
Speaker 1: give him a little bit, give me a little tantar kiss.
Speaker 1: So remember Jay, we all, I'll took the erotic blueprint.
Speaker 1: So having looked into that, some more energetic sex is
Speaker 1: sex where there's no penetration involved. Yeah, it's like Sting
Speaker 1: does that. That's like a little different what Sting does.
Speaker 1: I don't know what Sting does. How come you guys
Speaker 1: know what Sting does? And because it's legendary, like everyone
Speaker 1: knows what Sting in his eighteen hours might be, like exaggerate, Okay,
Speaker 1: Sting is Tan Trick. Do you know the difference between
Speaker 1: energy and tan trick? I don't know the difference, but
Speaker 1: I'm aware of both concepts, but just starting to like
Speaker 1: dive into this space and learn more about they should
Speaker 1: do energy? You know the difference energetic and tantric. I
Speaker 1: think so because I think energy is inappropriate. Oh god, HR,
Speaker 1: I'm losing HR doesn't apply, so it's fine, I am
Speaker 1: losing it. I think energy would be great for them though,
Speaker 1: because there's no touching. I know. I'm glad that my
Speaker 1: friend Lisa's to two young boys here in the studio,
Speaker 1: teen and pre teen just walked in to hear this.
Speaker 1: But they know everything. They know everything, those two they're
Speaker 1: miming it right now. The teams in there no way
Speaker 1: more than us. But I think energy is barely touching, right,
Speaker 1: But tantrick involves touching. Okay, I don't know. Maybe we'll
Speaker 1: get into more of this next week, but I actually
Speaker 1: can't wait waited for that. I bring your outpad, buddy. Well, dude, again,
Speaker 1: I just want to commend you for opening up sharing this.
Speaker 1: I undoubtedly know that this helped many people listening to
Speaker 1: this at home. So high five to you, buddy, Thank you.
Speaker 1: High five to you for co hosting your first podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you nice knowing you. I appreciate everything. I've not
Speaker 1: received a check for a single episode yet, make sure
Speaker 1: that goes to the estate. I just wanted you to
Speaker 1: know you who made eighty nine dollars in the last
Speaker 1: six months from this podcast. Go treat yourself, buddy, Go
Speaker 1: treat yourself a fresh new haircut or a little like
Speaker 1: shave or something with some lavender, something like that. Be glorious.
Speaker 1: I have a place I can see in you, buddy.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, Amy as always, Gavin, Rick Dmitri. We
Speaker 1: miss you, brothers. But I'm excited to be here for
Speaker 1: the sex to conversation. Actually they'll be next week. This
Speaker 1: is gonna mispering, I don't know, because trying to build suspense. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's it for now. Thank you. Everybody for listening. We
Speaker 1: alway appreciate you. If if you think this could this
Speaker 1: episode help a friend, please send it to a friend.
Speaker 1: Somebody that has young kids, please share it. Give us
Speaker 1: a review on iTunes, all that fun stuff so we
Speaker 1: can keep doing. Yeah, give us the review. I hate Amy,
Speaker 1: I know, I'm learning to take it um Until next week, guys,
Speaker 1: take care of one another, love one another, and we'll
Speaker 1: see you right back here on How Men Think