WEBVTT - Kobe's 1st Quarter 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:05.640 The Dream Team Tapes Season two, Kobe Lebron and the 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:10.320 redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts, an association 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:26.920 with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. Welcome to episode two 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.040 of The Dream Team Tapes Season two, Kobe Lebron and 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.360 the Redeemed Team. We're calling this Kobe's first Quarter. And 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:36.519 as you listen to the details and descriptions of the 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.080 ups and downs of Kobe Bryant's first eight seasons in 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.159 the NBA, keep in mind that all of this transpires 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:46.040 through the time he was aged twenty five years old. 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:51.240 Quarter of a century. That's it. I'm j A. Dande 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:53.080 and I got an up close look at the Kobe 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.080 show while covering the Lakers for ten years at the 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.080 l A Times and ten years at ESPN. And I'm 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.360 joined by Jack McCallum, who made plenty of trips to 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.760 l A when a chronicle of the NBA for Sports Illustrated. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:05.520 And Jack, I'm wondering, did you ever come to l 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:07.920 A with one story in mind only to have Kobe 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.319 take it over? I'll tell you what most prominently it 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.720 was during a strange summer of two thousand three, which 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.679 you're going to be concentrating on If you recall, the 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.880 same weekend that the news about Kobe's alleged sexual assault 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.280 in Colorado broke, was the same weekend that the Lakers 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.560 were proclaiming they had the new super team of the century. 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.920 They had acquired Carl Malone and Gary the Glove Peyton 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.319 to go with a you know, already great lineup with 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.800 Kobe and Shack. And that week I had arranged to 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.840 fly out with Carl Malone. He had hired a private 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.720 plane to take him to l A. When I got 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.800 to the small town where he was hiding out, Jim Hill, 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.120 by the way, the great l A sportscaster, were there, 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:52.280 and it looked like, Hey, this is gonna be a 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.960 great story about a super team. And next thing, you know, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.400 the Kobe Bryant news that happened in Colorado had broke. 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.320 I never did get to use the stuff from the 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.280 Carl Malone plane ride. Yeah, that was probably the the 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.960 ultimate example while Kobe was alive, of him just taking 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.160 over and dominating the news. It would happen all the time. Though. 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.680 I went up to cover the NFC Championship in two 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:22.440 thousand six up in Seattle, and usually the NFL's Championship Sunday, 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.880 right the two conference championship games is the big story. Loan, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.320 Behold what happens? Kobe drops eighty one points on the 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:32.280 Toronto Raptors and sort of takes over that storyline as well. 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.560 It would happen again and again where Kobe would just 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.760 come and and dominate the news and Jack even in 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.880 the after lafe he could dominate the news. Following the 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:47.119 tragic helicopter crash in January, Kobe Bryant dominated All Star 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.040 Game in Chicago, and he even took over what should 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.240 have been a tribute to David Stern right he had 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.840 passed away on January one, and All Star Weekend was 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.799 really his creation. Under his tenure as a commissioner of 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.680 the NBA went from just one game to this weekend 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.200 filled with events and parties and all that, and it 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.400 became the Kobe Show of Kobe celebration. All the players 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.639 wore Kobe's twenty four or his daughter Gianna's number two 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.560 in their jerseys during the game. He actually provided the 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:18.359 news in Adam Silver's news conference, we are renaming our 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.079 All Star m v P Trophy the Kobe Bryant m 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:26.160 v P Award. Along those lines, Kobe has really taken 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.880 over this entire episode, and that wasn't the original plan, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.000 as we outlined the ark of this series, but really 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.880 the accelerant in that shift was our interview with Phil Jackson, 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.480 who was Kobe's coach from Ton with a notable one 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.760 year break in the two thousand four oh five season. 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.160 And Jack when we talked to Phil, he just really 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.520 took us through this incredible journey of his time together 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.320 with Kobe. He could be a little elusive, but when 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.920 you got him, it was never predictable. You know, he 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.000 never took you out on what you Hey, a lot 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:00.920 of times you go in interview with somebody and I'm 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:05.440 collecting the quotes to support what my thesis is. And 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.400 there's guys that are really good at doing that. You 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.120 know what they're gonna say, but they're still really great 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.840 at saying it. But Phil always did something that set 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:18.479 you off on another path. And you know, I think 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.279 it's pretty obvious that when Kobe died, as was the 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.080 case with many people, but certainly Phil as much as 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:30.919 anybody you know, really started deeply thinking about these times 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.200 with Kobe and some of the things he said to 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.159 us were among the best. You know, I've been doing 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:40.200 this for fifty years, and uh, it was really some 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.800 of the best stuff that I had ever heard a 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.280 coach talking about a player. Yeah, at the end of 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.279 our time with him, we asked him to summarize his 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.640 relationship with Kobe, and he made it sound like something 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.039 from a work of literature. Here he is, well, I 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.359 think it's it's almost like a prodigal son story. And 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:04.000 there we go into father elimination illustration that you know, 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:09.560 there's a conflict, and there's wilfulness, and there's selfishness, and 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.000 there's um, I can do this on my own type 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:17.320 of thing, and then there's you know, the second life 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:24.880 or second opportunity that really brings back tenderness, yielding. You know, 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.240 it took two of us to have that complicated relationship 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.200 early on, you know, trying to both be wilful or directed, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:38.400 and his was to establish himself and his identity, and 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.120 me to establish what a team had to do to 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.159 win and the direction that teams have to have to 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:50.160 have this unselfish behavior and bending that will I think 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.040 was done. You know, sometimes in you know, in usual ways, 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.760 like one time coming to the facility and I had 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.359 a place that I parking spot that was designated mine 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.320 and there was Kobe's car in my parking spot. You know, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.480 things like that, just you know, know that he was 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.160 gonna entertain me and me not reacting to it at all, 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.800 you know, just going on about the day, you know, 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.359 not taking on bridge at anything. And so we forged 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.560 something that was harmonious and that that was one of 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.000 the joys of our life. And you know, my former 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.359 repel and partner Jamie Buss, says that, you know, we 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.280 raised him as a son of our own, So I 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:33.240 guess there's something in that together. So you can see 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.040 why we had to clear the way for this, much 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.240 like Kobe isolating on the wings so he could go 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.719 one on one. Although I'd say Kobe's ability to steal 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.760 the spotlight also as part of the Lakers and the 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.480 way they steal the spotlight, there's something about that franchise. 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:49.680 And a great example as we get back to the 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:54.400 context of USA Basketball came in the Olympics, and USA 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.119 Basketball executive Sean Ford told us that when they first 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.280 got to Georgia ahead of the Olympic Games and they 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.240 get to the hotel els around midnight and they credentialed 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.960 everyone on the team and then the traveling party and 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:06.840 then he's told at two am that he has to 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.000 drive Shaquille O'Neil to the Weston Hotel and he didn't 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.680 ask why, and then drive through Atlanta and he gets 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:14.720 to the West End. As as they're pulling up, he 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.440 discovered the reason. Get out and Jerry West is waiting 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.200 for him at the Lakers and uh he was that 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.640 That's when he signed his contract with the Lakers. So Jack, 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:24.840 if you remember that free agent signing when Shack left 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.160 the Orlando Magic, it oversattled the start of the Olympics. Absolutely. 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.960 I mean it did, as you said, overshadow the games. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.760 But that's kind of understandable. Shack was at the height 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:39.040 of his powers back then and Jerry West signing of him. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.640 You know, I talked to Jerry how many years after 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.040 that is now, you know, twenty five years later, with 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:49.360 however many signings Jerry has done, including you know, drafting Kobe, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.440 he still gets excited when he when he talks about 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.040 that Shack signing. It's very It's really an interesting phenomenon. 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.920 Remember at the time he compared it to the bird 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.760 to his children, and it was that monumental an event 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:06.680 for him. And what we didn't realize though, was that 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.800 he was equally as excited about his Draft day trade 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.640 for Kobe Bryant, And initially I don't think we gave 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.760 that enough attention. There was still there was curiosity about Kobe. Um. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:19.920 You know, high school players going straight to the NBA 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.520 was was still a novelty. The year before, Chemi Garnett 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.520 had become the first player to skip straight to the 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.400 pros and twenty years and with Kobe was the first 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:30.200 time that a guard had done it, So there was 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.439 that new aspect of it. And I went up to 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.280 the Lakers first road game of the season. I was 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.000 working in washing d C at the time. It took 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.320 the train up to Penn Station in New York City 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.480 and went up stairs and Madison Square Garden, and there 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.000 was so much demand for young Kobe and one of 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.840 his first games as a pro, that they actually did 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.960 a separate press conference for him before their game against 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:54.920 the Knicks. You know, back then, obviously people knew about Kobe. 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.320 Clips were not passed back virally back and forth. I 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.520 don't remember, maybe you do, but I don't remember a 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.720 thousand Kobe clips at you know, Lower Merion High School 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.360 being passed back and forth. Now in the next episode, 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.880 we're gonna be talking about Lebron. By that time, it 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.560 was different. You know, eight years later, everybody who was 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.680 a basketball fan had seen Lebron, and Kobe really didn't 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.040 play in any of these as I recall any of 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.320 these super games, you know, I get matched like Lebron 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.520 events Carmelo and stuff like that. So Kobe, as you said, 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.280 was still still a little bit of a secret. I 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.080 mean not not a full secret, but a little bit. Yeah, 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:36.800 And we we talked to Eric Aldridge, who was the 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.679 Lakers assistant PR director at the time. He was actually 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.480 the guy that picked up Kobe at the airport to 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.120 drive into his now legendary pre jaft workout with the 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.040 Lakers at the inglewood Y m c A. And he 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.320 he spoke on that aspect. Jack, A big part of 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:56.880 the mystique of Kobe was we didn't really know who 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:01.160 he was. I mean again, this was pre social media. 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.040 It was a lot of word of mouth. But once 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.960 the Laker fans got to see Kobe for themselves, starting 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.280 in the Summer League game and then early with this 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.080 time with the Lakers, they really formed a quick bond. 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.400 As authors noticed, Well, I think from my perspective, what 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:20.679 I saw was, you know, people love your watching brilliance. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.080 If you think about you know, Tiger Woods, you think 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:29.200 about athletes who were so good so young, and then 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.000 you you're watching it unfold in front of your eyes. 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.520 I mean, it's almost like watching your own kid. You know, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.160 you you see it, you see the potential, but he's 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.240 not there yet. It was clear that he wasn't there yet, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.640 but you could see it. But not only could you 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.200 see it, you can see him working towards it. And 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.520 I think that's the thing that connected him with the 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.480 fan base. And then Robert Dory was traded to the 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.240 Lakers during Kobe's rookie season, and from his first practice 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.160 with the team, he noticed that Kobe was working towards 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.240 it even when the fans and the TV cameras weren't around. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.640 I remember Cole was just like, everybody's going like a 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.120 third of a speed and Kobe's going one hund and 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.800 shoot around, Like does this guy know this is a 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.520 shoot around? And he was like, you know, I gotta 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.800 go hard because I'm trying to start I'm like, dude, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:20.559 it shoot around, nobody goes hard. And he just had 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:22.840 all his energy and I said, that's that's an eighteen 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.040 year old for you. You You know, that's you're gonna have 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.480 all that energy. And when you wait waited this age 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.520 m game, grinding hits, you're gonna slow down. And it 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:31.760 was just one of those things. He was just trying 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.640 to learn the game. And he was just one of 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.959 those guys that was in the gym constantly trying to 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.559 get better. I mean every play he was going hard. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.160 So Kobe had his formula for greatness on the court, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.160 but he didn't have a pathway to bonding with his teammates. 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:48.719 And part of it was the age gap. Kobe was 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.040 born in ninety eight. The next youngest player on the 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.840 team was born in nineteen seventy four. And put it 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:55.679 this way, how much time did you spend hanging out 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.680 with seniors during your freshman year in college? And of 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.040 course Kobe never had any of that college experience. You know, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.840 that transition time when you're away from home, every's an 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.199 equal footing. You're in the dorms, you're sharing sleeping quarters 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.000 with the roommate. You've all got this community bathroom, down 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.720 the down the hall, and its altres put it. He 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.920 just didn't have those social skills built up yet. So 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.920 altre also members of time. Early in Kobe's career, when 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:19.560 he and some of the players went to a TGI 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.319 Fridays after a preseason game in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.200 Kobe walks in the restaurant. He didn't even join them 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.440 at first. That was a rookie faux pa. And when 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.240 he finally came over, he's astounded that the players are drinking, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:32.880 Like he couldn't believe they had a game to play 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.240 the next night and they're drinking alcohol. And Robert Rory 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.000 was one of the players at the table and he 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.560 recalled that night it was all about bonding, And I 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.640 think he didn't understand that it's it's about coming together 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.240 and bonding, because if you think about it, it was 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.720 I always believe that it was a disconnect because you're 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.920 just eight year old. What do you have in common 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.120 with the a t O in twenty just probably video 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:57.959 games at the time video games were like the level 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.280 they r now. Um, So it was it was a 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.000 disconnect them. And and I think when he turned twenty one, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.120 he was like, okay, I'm a part of crewing them. 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.319 But to disconnect was did the wall. I should say 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.760 it was up so hard. It was kind of to reconnect. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.400 We'll be back with more Kobe, Lebron and the redeem 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:27.040 team after this. So then in there's a huge new 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.679 personality added to the mix, Bill Jackson. There had been 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:32.960 a series of playoff disappointments with the Lakers and that 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.600 led to the firing coach Del Harris, and then the 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.240 Lakers didn't think his replacement, Kurt Rambis was up to 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.120 the task, and Phil Jackson was available. The reason why 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.880 I was covered pretty extensively in the last Dance and 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.200 the Lakers signed filled with a five year, thirty million 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.800 dollar contract and jack that was really big bucks for 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.959 a coach at the time. It was sort of a 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.480 little version of what had happened in Chicago. Jordan was 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.680 very very close to Doug Collins. He had gotten them 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.880 to a certain point, and you know, you don't know 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.600 whether Phil is back there studying the situation and going okay, 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.080 I think it's time, you know. And it's obviously a 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.959 combination of taking over a team when they're ready to mature. 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.760 I don't think there's any doubt about that. But it's 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.320 also Phil's got a little bit of a magic touch 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.440 that he was able to add and next thing, you know, 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.320 three titles in a row. Yeah, and Phil, when he 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.800 took over in Chicago, A he was coming from inside. 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.320 He wasn't coming from the outside. But the advantage he 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.840 had when he came to the Lakers was that he 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.520 was minted with six championships, and so they had to 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.520 respect him. He commanded their respect, and I think in 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.480 part it was a message to the star players that 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.520 they had to get serious or they could be the 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.360 ones out the next time. And they responded. As Robert 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.920 Ori noted from the first DAID training camp, when they 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.160 get there and he sees that Kobe's bulked up and 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.760 shock and slimmed down. It's almost like they were skin 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.280 of field and they got in the best shape of 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.040 their lives. They were looking good, and they were like, oh, 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.160 we gotta be ready for his upcoming season. And so 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.480 Kobe was so eager to learn from Phil Jackson, his idol, 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.360 Michael Jordan's coach, that he went to meet with Phil 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.440 before his introductory press conference at the Beverly Hilton Hotel. Meanwhile, 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.960 Shack cross passed with Phil that summer at Jackson's getaway 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.160 cabin in Montana. He was riding around the bay on 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.280 some jet skis that he had borrowed from neighbors. As 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.560 far as you could see, people were standing out on 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.240 their docks and looking at him. And he'd been jumping 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.560 on the trampoline that was in my yard, and my 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:34.120 neighbors kept seeing this figure show up above the boat 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.600 house and Jack was jumping on the trampoline, and then 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.720 he went off to the dock and he did he 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.080 dove in the dock, and then he borrowed some jet 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.120 skis and went around. So the big, fun loving guy, 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.160 you know, was somebody I knew already. And in that 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.800 story you can hear the affection for Shock and Phil's voice. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.520 And he was also intrigued by the chance to coach 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.920 a dominant center, and that was the one element he 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.360 didn't have with the Chicago teams. And so acts and 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.520 made Shack the focal point of the offense. But Kobe 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.240 didn't always follow the plan. He would just go rogue, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.160 and I pulled him the sideline and saying it's not 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.280 the time to try and take over the game. Yet, Yeah, 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.520 I'll get back to it, and he go back and 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:17.920 run the offense for a little bit. But you know, 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.880 everything was predicated to going through Shack a lot at 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.440 that time, because that's what I said, that's what we're 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.880 gonna do. So how we're gonna attack this team and 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.680 this game. And uh, you know, Kobe got tired of 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.000 doing that. But Kobe was capable of playing and of 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.960 working alongside Shack. And there's three championship banners and Staples 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.000 Center to prove it. When Kobe and Shack joined forces 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.760 at the top, their combined powers were unbeatable. And what's 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.040 interesting to me is that Phil Jackson singled out the 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.240 same moment that I always referenced as the display of 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.760 Kobe and Shack at their collaborative best, and it's to 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:52.680 play near the end of Game seven and the two 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.040 thousand Western Conference Finals, when Kobe crossed up Scottie Pippen. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:57.840 Then he threw a lob to Shack and that's the 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.000 one that finished off the comeback against the Portland Trail 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.560 Blazers and it sent them on to the NBA Finals. 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.879 I think it was solidified when jack understood that Kobe 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:11.200 knew how to win what was necessary to win, and 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.719 was able to do the things that created the winds, 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.919 and that he would give up the ball at the 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:23.960 right time to create this. Well, the demonstrating moments was 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.760 that dunk against Portland in the game the seventh game 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.720 of that series, when you know, all of a sudden, 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.200 you know, there was a movement which everybody was expecting 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.600 Kobe to make some kind of a shot or whatever, 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.960 and he just put the ball up there for Shock 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.040 to to ram it down through the hoop. And I 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.160 think that was really a moment that kind of solidified everything, 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.760 and they kind of understood then that they were gonna 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.760 do whatever it took to win. It felt like the 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.320 Lakers would keep winning championships for the foreseeable future. Jack 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:58.280 was Kobe. This was his version of college graduation, and 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.040 that was an element that the Lakers, who had pretty 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.920 much stayed set for throughout their three championships, and they 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.400 just weren't ready for that element, and and losing that, 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.159 of course, uh led to that drastic change that you 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.720 mentioned earlier when they brought in Gary Payton and Karl 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.760 Malone and they said, okay, we need to upgrade, and 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.560 they majorly upgraded. But meanwhile, the mileage of all those 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.520 deep playoff runs had had really worn down Kobe's knee, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.680 and unbeknownst to the Lakers, he went to Eagle, Colorado 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.280 to get surgery. He just did it out of the blue. 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:32.040 The club was totally surprised at the incident and everything 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:36.439 and all hell broke loose after that. And while he 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.159 was in Colorado, Kobe had a sexual encounter with the 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.680 hotel employee and she later accused him of sexual assault, 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.880 and all that led to the most surreal press conference 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.520 I've ever attended, and it featured Kobe, his wife Vanessa, 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.920 and his attorney, Pamela Mackie, who was voice so here 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.840 first from in the clip from that day, Toby Bryant 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.119 is innocent of the charges that were filed at as 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:04.040 him today, I'm innacent. I didn't force her to do 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:11.439 anything against her will. I'm innocent. In that case just 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.280 loomed over the whole season, even despite the additions of 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.280 those two future Hall of Fame players, and it also 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.720 increased the tension between Shaq and Kobe. Shack had learned 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.480 that Kobe brought Shack's name into the statement that he 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.920 gave police and one thing it did was create even 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.920 more distance between Phil and Kobe. And at the time 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.960 that Kobe probably could have used more support and advice, 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.879 Phil's approach was to give Kobe more space. And Phil 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.199 just didn't know what to make of Kobe's presence on 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:45.399 the team. He just felt the anger emanating out of 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.840 his being. I don't know who. He's angry at himself, 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.040 He's angry at the situation, He's angry at the public exposure. 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.880 There's a lot of things. I never felt really comfortable 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.440 with it, and I just decided to be hands off 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:04.240 and situation. It felt like a personal upfront to me 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.800 to keep in mind all the other things that play. 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.080 Bill Jackson was in the last year of his contract. 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.480 He was trying to get an extension. Shack had another 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:13.840 year left on his contract, but he wanted an extension, 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.480 and Kobe this was the key could become a free 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.040 agent after the season, and for the first time he 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.320 was in a position to flex his leverage. And I 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.320 don't know if Kobe ever gave Lakers owner Jerry Buss 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.240 an ultimatum that he would leave unless Bus got rid 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.720 of Shock and Phil, But I do know I can't 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.360 explain how. But trust me, I do know that Bus 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.920 really didn't think Jackson should keep coaching that team. And 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.400 he also realized that he couldn't keep both Shack and Kobe, 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:43.119 that one of them was going to have to go. 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.080 They couldn't co exist any longer. That was his mindset. 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.280 I don't know the extent that Kobe influenced, but I'm 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.000 really confident that that was Jerry Buss's mentality at the time. 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.119 I'm interested. You were out there, and uh, I always 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:58.159 have this this theory, and when you say something is 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.080 the theory, that means it doesn't have to be correct it. 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:05.240 I always thought that it had to be like somebody's team, 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.720 not not two guys team, you know, it had to 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:11.520 be one guy's team. And it always was fascinating to 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:14.960 me because Shaq was such a dominant figure. And maybe 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.679 it's just because I knew him better. I had worked 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.400 on a book with him on in his rookie year, 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:23.920 and I kind of, like, you know, knew I could 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.520