1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Hi. This is due to the virus. I'm recording from home, 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: so you may notice a difference in audio quality on 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: this episode of News World. I am delighted to have 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: a close personal friend and somebody who I really admire 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: a great deal, a brilliant lawyer, somebody who has shown 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: enormous courage and fighting for the conservative cause. Ted Cruz 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: was a law clerk for Chief Justice William Rehnquist in 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. He went on from there became a 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: US Senator presidential candidate, but in the process near two thousand, 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: he helped litigate the Supreme Court case of Bush versus 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: Bore after the Florida election recount dispute. He has discussed 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: the importance of the Supreme Court and a brand new 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: book just coming out and very timely one vote away. 14 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: I can't imagine a more timely conversation, both in terms 15 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: of the upcoming election and in terms of the President 16 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: having nominated someone to be on the Supreme Court. So 17 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: Senator Cruz, first, let me just say thank you. I 18 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: know how busy your schedule is, and I am delighted 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: that you would take some time to talk about your 20 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: new book and about the whole issue of the Supreme 21 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: Court and where we are today. Well, no, thanks for 22 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: having me on. It's great to be with you. And 23 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: there's certainly a great deal of happening right now concerning 24 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: obviously the Supreme Court and the vacancy that we're right 25 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: in the midst of. Considering, given everything you do and 26 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: how busy you are, what led you to decide that 27 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: writing this book was that important, Well, I think it 28 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: underscores the enormous stakes of this election. I wrote the 29 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: book this spring and summer while most of the country 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: was on COVID lockdown, and so I was working from home. 31 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: In terms of what is at stake on November third, 32 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: I don't know that there is anything more important than 33 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court. Before I was in the Senate, 34 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: I was a Supreme Court litigator. I represented the State 35 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: of Texas before the Supreme Court. I represented big companies, 36 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: private companies, and Beth the company litigation before the Supreme Court. 37 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,559 Speaker 1: And the way the book is structured, each chapter focuses 38 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: on a different constitutional liberty. So there's a chapter on 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: free speech. There's a chapter on religious liberty. There's a 40 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: chapter on the Second Amendment. There's a chapter on US sovereignty. 41 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: There's a chapter on democracy and elections and telling the 42 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: inside story of Bush versus Gore. With all the chapters, 43 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: what I try to do is really tell war stories 44 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: from litigating the major landmark cases on each of those issues. 45 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: And I was blessed to have litigated a lot of 46 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: the biggest cases on those areas, and so I try 47 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: to bring the reader inside understand how the court operates, 48 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: who are the players, what's going on, what actually led 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: to these major landmark cases. And it's designed also where 50 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: you don't have to be a lawyer, you don't have 51 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: to be an expert in any of this, but it's 52 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: designed to be interesting and accessible and help you really 53 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: understand what's at stake in this confirmation battle for Judge 54 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: Barrett and what's at stake for the Supreme Court going forward, 55 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: in your own experience when you were there in one 56 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: of the most important cases in modern times in the 57 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: Gore versus Bush showdown, what is your takeaway from that experience, 58 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: both in terms of the process of systematic litigation going 59 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: up through the court systems to the Supreme Court and 60 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: also on the issues that were at stake. I remember 61 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: at the time it just seemed like it was an 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: enormously contentious moment. So it was, and it was utter chaos. 63 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: In November of two thousand, I was a young lawyer. 64 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: I was working on the George W. Bush campaign, so 65 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: I was down in Austin, Texas. That's actually where Heidi 66 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: and I met. I met my wife on the campaign. 67 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: She was also down there as part of the campaign staff. 68 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: And I still remember election night where we were standing 69 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: out in the street on Congress Avenue at four in 70 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: the morning with light rain drizzling down, where Don Evans, 71 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: the chairman of the campaign, came out and said, it 72 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: looks like we're not going to have a decision tonight. 73 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: It is uncertain. And shortly thereafter I got on a 74 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: plane flew to Tallahassee and was in Tallahassee for the 75 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: entire recount litigation. And it started with one lawsuit, but 76 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: it ended up with multiple lawsuits. Where George W. Bush 77 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: had won on election night, the count on election night 78 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: showed that he won, which many won the presidency. The 79 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: whole race had come down to Florida. The Democrats came 80 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: in with an army of lawyers and brought multiple cases 81 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: trying to force recount after recount after recount, trying to 82 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: throw out votes that were favorable the Bush so that 83 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: Gore would win. And ultimately the votes were counted a 84 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: total of four times in Florida, and every time the 85 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: votes were counted Bush one. But the Gore legal team 86 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: didn't like that, so their view was they were going 87 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: to keep litigating until they could change the outcome. And 88 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: the case went twice to the US Supreme Court. The 89 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: first time at the Supreme Court, we won unanimously, and 90 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: in fact, the Court adopted a theory that was one 91 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: that I'd come up with along with two other campaign lawyers, 92 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: urging the court to vacate the decision of the Florida 93 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. In other words, to essentially erase the Florida 94 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: Supreme Court's decision and send it back after clarifying federal law. 95 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: That's what the Supreme Court did the first time, unanimously. 96 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: The second time it went back to the court, we 97 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: ended up prevailing seven to two that the court concluded 98 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: that what was happening in Florida violated the equal Protection 99 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: clause of the Constitution. But then the court divided five four, 100 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: just one vote away on the remedy and the Court ultimately, 101 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: after thirty six days of chaos, said enough is enough. 102 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: It's over. The votes have been counted. They've been counted 103 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: four times every time Bush has won. George W. Bush 104 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: is the winner that ended the matter and gave us 105 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: a clear winner. Now, the obvious importance of all of 106 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: that new this time around is I think the odds 107 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: are exceedingly high that we're going to see litigation, and 108 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: maybe not just in one state like we did in Florida. 109 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: I think if Joe Biden loses, he has already explicitly 110 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: said that he intends to challenge the legitimacy of this election, 111 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: and I could easily see Biden filing litigation in five 112 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: different states simultaneously. That's what makes the timing of the 113 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: confirmation of Judge Barrett so important. What I believe we 114 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: will do is that the Senate should confirm Judge Barrett 115 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: before election day so that we have a full complement 116 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: of nine justices on the Court, because otherwise, if they're 117 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: just eight justices on the court and there is litigation 118 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: over the election, the Court could easily divide four four, 119 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: and a court that is divided four four has no 120 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: legal authority to decide anything, so we could see weeks 121 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: or months of chaos and uncertainty and a constitutional crisis. 122 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: And I think that's really the most compelling reason to 123 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: act and act swiftly, and I believe that's what the 124 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: Senate's going to do. Let me carry you back from it, 125 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: because for a lot of folks who weren't there, and 126 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: a lot of younger people who may have never even 127 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: thought about it, could you just take a minute and 128 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: describe what it actually happened in Palm Beach County that 129 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: led to this whole total mess. Well, sure, and I'll 130 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: take it even a little bit earlier than that, which 131 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: is on election night, we're all gathered and everyone's watching 132 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: the TV to the election results, and initially the networks 133 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: all called Florida for al Gore, and so they said 134 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: al Gore has won the state of Florida, and we 135 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: were crestfallen because the math was pretty clear that if 136 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: we lost Florida, it was very hard to get to 137 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy electoral votes, which is what's needed 138 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: to win. Amazingly enough, the networks called Florida while the 139 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: polls were still open. People were still voting in the Panhandle, 140 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: and the Panhandle tends to be the most conservative part 141 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: of Florida. But the networks had called it for Gore anyway, 142 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: which no doubt had a real effect discouraging some of 143 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: George W. Bush's voters from coming out. Then as time 144 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: went on and the counting went on in Florida, they 145 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: began to realize that what they had said was wrong, 146 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: and so one network after another rescinded the call and said, Okay, 147 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: we had called Florida for Gore. It turns out we 148 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: were wrong. It's now too close to call. And we 149 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: cheered at the campaign and everyone watching that. That went 150 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: on for several hours, and then late in the evening, 151 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: the networks reversed their call and they said, we can 152 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: now call the winner of Florida is George W. Bush. 153 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: And with Florida, George W. Bush has won the presidency. 154 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: And so that was late on the night of election 155 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: night when that happened. Al Gore picked up the phone 156 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: and called Bush and conceded, And he conceded on the phone, 157 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: and then he was driving to give his concession speech 158 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: and his team called him and said, well, wait, the 159 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: margin maybe a little bit closer than we thought. And 160 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: so Gore called Bush back and retracted his concession, and 161 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: that was the beginning of No one was sure what 162 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: was going to happen. That the margin was quite close 163 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: in Florida, which triggered an automatic recount under state law. 164 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: So they counted all the votes, but then there was 165 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: an automatic machine recount after that. The next day, Josh Bolton, 166 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: who was the policy directory, was my boss on the campaign. 167 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: He later became the White House Chief of Staff. Josh 168 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: asked me Ted, get an an airplane fly to Florida, 169 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 1: be in Tallahassee, and so I sat down with Ben Ginsburg. 170 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: Ben was our outside council, and I still remember I 171 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: was twenty nine years old and I was sitting in 172 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: a conference room with the band. We had a yellow 173 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: pad of paper, and we started assembling our legal team. 174 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: And it was literally it was like a field of dreams. Moment, 175 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: if you call them, they will come. And so we 176 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: went through and said, all right, who do we want? 177 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: And one of the first people I called was my 178 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: old boss, Mike Carvin. Mike is one of the top 179 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: Supreme Court litigators in the country. I remember Mike was 180 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: at a wedding in Seattle. I got him on hisself 181 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: and I said, Mike, we need you here now. He 182 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: got on a plane, he flew to DC. His wife 183 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: met him at the airport with a suitcase of fresh clothes, 184 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: and he was down in Tallahassee. I don't know twelve 185 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: fifteen hours later. Another lawyer that I called was a 186 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: lawyer in private practice by the name of John Roberts. 187 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: John I'd known for a long time. John was a 188 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: law clerk for Chief Justice Rehnquist, as was I. I 189 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: got John on the phone, said we need you here. 190 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: He came straight down and we assembled a team that 191 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: dealt with an onslot of litigation. I still remember. We 192 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: had a war room, and we had a chart, and 193 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: there were seven different lawsuits pending in different parts of Florida, 194 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: any one of which could cost the President of the 195 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: United States. And it was utter and complete chaos. But 196 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: we had I think the finest legal team that has 197 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: ever been assembled. You couldn't have that many top Republican 198 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: litigators in the country. Ordinarily they'd kill each other and 199 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: the egos would clash. In this instance, everyone was so 200 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: horrified at watching the Gore team try to steal the 201 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: election that everyone worked together and it made a huge 202 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: difference that we had a Supreme Court with nine justices 203 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: who could resolve the matter at the end of the 204 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: day and make sure that the law was followed. As 205 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: a historian, I'm fascinated was any one personality decisive and 206 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: pulling the team together. So the leader of the entire 207 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: team was Jim Baker. And Baker is an extraordinary man. 208 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: He had been the chief of staff, He's run five 209 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: presidential campaigns, he was the Secretary of Treasury, he was 210 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: the Secretary of State. And Baker was sort of the 211 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: leading graybeard for Bush forty one, George Herbert Walker Bush. 212 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: And it was very interesting the George W. Bush campaign. 213 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: Part of what they were trying to do is run 214 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: as conservatives and not be as moderate as his father 215 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: had been. And so actually forty three and meetings throughout 216 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: the campaign would mention to people, you'll notice who's not here. 217 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: And so Jim Baker had not been involved in the 218 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: campaign at all because he was seen as one of 219 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: the more moderate advisors to Bush forty one. When the 220 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: recount started, George W. Called Baker and said we need you. 221 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: And it was an enormous asset because Baker is brilliant. 222 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: He's hunting. He is a statesman. He understands the media, 223 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: he understands law, he understands politics, and so he led 224 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: the entire team. In terms of assembling the group, it 225 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: was Ben Ginsburg and me and my being there was 226 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: a happy accident. I mean, I was a kid in 227 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: my late twenties. It just happened that I was the 228 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: only person who had been on the full time campaign 229 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: staff who had been a constitutional litigator in a Supreme 230 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: Court litigator. That's what my practice had been. And so 231 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: Secretary Baker at the outset asked me to serve on 232 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: We had seven different legal teams that were handling all 233 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: the different litigation. He asked me to be the one 234 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: lawyer who served as the conduit and as a member 235 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: of all seven in significant part to try to ensure 236 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,119 Speaker 1: that what was being said in one case was consistent 237 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: with another. And I'll tell you my favorite story from 238 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: that entire battle was the night that the Supreme Court 239 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: decision came down. It was about ten o'clock at night 240 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: and I got a call on my cell phone from 241 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: the clerk of the Supreme Court office, and the clerk said, Okay, 242 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: we have a decision, Do you want us to fax 243 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: it to you? And so that says something about the timing. 244 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: We still used fax machines, and so I said sure, 245 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: I gave her the fax number, and they faxed the 246 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: decision over and I picked up the decision and I 247 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: carried it into Jim Baker's office. And you may remember 248 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: that night. It was a surreal night because the opinion 249 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: was about thirty pages long, and it was convoluted, and 250 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't clear what it said. And so Baker looks 251 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: at me and goes, well, what does it say? And 252 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: so I'm sitting there reading it, trying to read it quickly. 253 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: He is standing basically looking over my shoulder in this 254 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: small office. Simultaneously, the reporters are standing on the steps 255 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court. They're trying to read the opinion 256 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: and they can't figure out what it says. So nobody 257 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: knows what the outcome is. So I'm reading quickly, and 258 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: after a couple of minutes, I looked at Baker and 259 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: I said, it means it's over. It's done, And he 260 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: looked at me and nodded, and he reached over he 261 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: picked up the phone. He called then Governor Bush at 262 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: his ranch and Crawford George W. Bush picked up the 263 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: phone and Baker said, well, mister President, how does it feel? 264 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: And I just had chills go down my spine. It 265 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: was a powerful moment, I gotta tell you though. The 266 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: next day Heidi was laughing and she said, well, it's 267 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: a good thing. You were right. It's a good thing. 268 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: There wasn't some footnote buried in the opinion that you 269 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: miss and that you gave the right call. But it 270 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: turned out to be correct. And that was the end 271 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: of the thirty six day recount and we had an 272 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: election result and we had a new president. What are 273 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: the other really big five to four decisions that you 274 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: look at, You think Tishue was changed in effect one 275 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: je Well, virtually every topic, virtually every fundamental right that 276 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: we can think of, It is five four at the court. 277 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: So free speech. One of the cases that the left 278 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: loves to demonize is a case called Citizens United. Citizens 279 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: United upheld the right of a nonprofit organization to criticize politicians. 280 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: In this instance, Citizens United made a movie that was 281 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: critical of Hillary Clinton, and the Obama administration came in 282 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: and wanted to find Citizens United for daring to criticize 283 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, and the case went to the Supreme Court 284 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: and five four, by just a single vote, the court 285 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: concluded that you have a First Amendment right to make 286 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: a movie critical of a politician and that the government 287 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: can't find you for doing it. At the oral argument, 288 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: the Obama Justice Department was asked. Justice Alito explicitly asked 289 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: the Obama doj under your theory of the case, could 290 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: the government ban books make it illegal to publish a 291 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: book that is critical of a politician? And the Obama 292 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: Justice Department argued, yes, that's what we're arguing. It's a 293 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: little stunning news that the decision there was five to four, 294 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: and Hillary Clinton explicitly pledged to nominate justices who would 295 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: overrule Citizens United and Joe Biden has as well. One 296 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: issue that's front and center is does the federal government 297 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: have the ability to muzzle you and to punish you 298 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: for criticizing politicians? And I mean, that's our fundamental right 299 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: of free speech. Well, when you think about it, you 300 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: also have to wonder why that lawyer answered that way. 301 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: I mean, I think they're probably an honest answer, but 302 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: in a sense of guaranteed that it was so radical 303 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: in fact, I agree with you that it's it's a 304 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: little surprising. It wasn't like nine zero given the level 305 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: of censorship they were suggesting. You are right, although the 306 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: necessary conclusion of their argument, and this reason Justice Alito 307 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: pressed them, is because they were arguing that the government 308 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: had the power to censor movies. I suppose the lawyer 309 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: could have fought the hypo, it was the necessary conclusion 310 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: of their position. I go into a lot of detail 311 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: about the history of Citizens United, how that happened, but 312 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: then I also describe the aftermathis Citizens United, where Senate 313 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: Democrats introduced a constitutional amendment to repeal the free speech 314 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: protections of the First Amendment and to give Congress plenary power, 315 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: which is a fancy legal term for blanket total power 316 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: to regulate political speech. And every single Senate Democrat voted 317 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: to repeal the free speech protections of the First Amendment. 318 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: I led the fight against it in the Senate, and 319 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: so I go through the battles. Dick Durbin chaired the 320 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: Constitution Subcommittee the Senate Judiciary Committee, and I was the 321 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: ranking Republican. There was a time when there were free 322 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: speech Democrats, and in fact, in past congresses when Democrats 323 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: have tried to amend or repeal the free speech protections 324 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: of the Bill of Rights. Democrats like Ted Kennedy bellowed, 325 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: we haven't amended the Bill of Rights in two hundred years, 326 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: and now is no time to start. Well, I'm sorry 327 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: to tell you, in today's Senate there are no Ted 328 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: Kennedy liberals left. Not a single Democrat would defend the 329 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: Bill of Rights in free speech, and they believe in 330 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: power instead. And the same is true with religious liberty, 331 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: the right we have to worship to exercise our faith. 332 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: The same is true with the Second Amendment. The Supreme 333 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: Court five four, the Heller decision, which I helped litigate, 334 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: I represented thirty one states defending the Second Amendment right 335 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: to keep and bear arms. There were four dissenting justices 336 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: who argued that the Second Amo it protects no individual 337 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: right whatsoever, that neither you, nor I, nor any American 338 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: has any individual right. And so it wasn't even arguing 339 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: that some gun control is sometimes okay. Look, reasonable minds 340 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: can disagree on that. Their position was much more brazen 341 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: and radical. It was that the Second Amendment is essentially 342 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: erased from the Bill of Rights, and government can make 343 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: it illegal for you or me, or any American to 344 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: possess any firearm whatsoever. That's a radical position, and we're 345 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 1: one vote away from it at the Court. Don't you 346 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: find in that sense that the entire process of governors 347 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: and county commissioners and mayors basically eliminating the Constitution during 348 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: the period of shutdown. It's an astonishing repudiation of the 349 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: core protections of the United States, it really is. And 350 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: it's a loss. I mean, there was a time the 351 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: sixties and seven, even eighties and nineties where you had 352 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: Democrats who were civil libertarians, who actually believed in protecting liberties, 353 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: religious liberty. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which protects the 354 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,719 Speaker 1: religious liberty of all of us, that passed the Senate 355 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: and the House virtually unanimously. Virtually every Republican, virtually every 356 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: Democrat voted for it. Chuck Schumer voted for it, Joe 357 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: Biden voted for it. Was signed in the law by 358 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton. So it used to be that Republicans Democrats, 359 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: we would disagree on, say, marginal tax rates. Okay, fine, 360 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: we can have an argument about that. But when it 361 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: came to let's protect the religious liberties of Americans, that 362 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: was bipartisan. It isn't anymore. And I recount in the 363 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: book the aftermath of the Supreme Court's decision in the 364 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: Hobby Lobby case, which was protecting the right of Christian companies, 365 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: Christian employers not to be forced to violate their faith 366 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: and to pay for abortion inducing drugs and others. Hobby 367 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: Lobby was five four. There were four justices that we're 368 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: willing to say, we're going to force them to comply. 369 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: We're going to force the little Sisters of the Poor, 370 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: which I talk about at length in the book, a 371 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: Catholic convent of nuns that the Obama administration was litigating 372 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: to punish them and force them to pay for abortion 373 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: inducing drugs and others. And sadly, Senate Democrats took up 374 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: legislation to gut RIFRA, to gut the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, 375 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: which had passed in the nineteen nineties. Virtually unanimously, every 376 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: single Senate Democrat voted to gut the legislation because there's 377 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: not a single one of them, not one who will 378 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: defend religious liberty anymore. It's really an astonishing shift in 379 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: the whole nature of America. Don't you think it is. 380 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: And when I was fighting against their efforts to gut Riffra, 381 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: I gave a speech on the Senate floor and I 382 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: had behind me a poster with a quote from John F. 383 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: Kennedy that said, I will not stand with a person 384 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: who will not protect my religious liberty, And I called out, 385 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: are there no John F. Kennedy Democrats left? And sadly 386 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: there are not. It shows how radicalized today's Washington Democrats 387 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: have become, that they are the party of Bernie Sanders 388 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: and Elizabeth Warren an AOC. But it is stunning. This 389 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: book is really designed where each chapter helps you understand 390 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 1: really what's at stake and how close the balance is 391 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: that if they get one more left wing justice on 392 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: the court, the rights that we really cherish as Americans 393 00:23:46,720 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: can be taken away. It relates directly back to the 394 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: left's attack on Judge Barrett, which essentially relates to her Catholicism, 395 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: and at least for some people on the left, whether 396 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: or not you can be genuinely committed Christian, whether Evangelical 397 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: or Catholic, and be allowed to serve on a court. 398 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: We've shifted from freedom of religion on the left to 399 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: anti religion as to the ardsed it nude. I think 400 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: you're exactly right that today's Democratic Party has a deep 401 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: animosity and antipathy to people of faith. That religion is 402 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: fine if it's kind of like, you know, a social membership, 403 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: but it's not fine if you actually believe the stuff. Now, 404 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: Judge Barrett's credentials are extraordinary. She graduated first in her 405 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: class from Notre Dame Law School. She was a law 406 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: clerk to Justice Anton and Scalia, one of the greatest 407 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: justices ever to have lived on the court. She spent 408 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: twenty years as a professor at Dame. She's one of 409 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: the most respected federal appellate judges in the country. But 410 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: I still remember well in the Senate Judiciary Committee, the 411 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: confirmation hearing for her to become a federal appellate judge, 412 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: where we saw Democrat after democrat target her for her faith. 413 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: Dick Durbin asked her if she was a quote Orthodox Catholic, 414 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: which I'm not quite sure what that's supposed to mean, 415 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: I guess as opposed to a heretic Orthodox as an 416 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: odd modifier there, but clearly it was bad, and the 417 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: moment that really characterized the entire hearing was Senator Dianne Feinstein, 418 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: who said about Judge Barrett's faith, said, the dogma lives 419 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: loudly in this one, and dogma was meant to be, 420 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: I think, a code word. If you actually believe your faith, 421 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: then you are not fit to serve in public office 422 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: or as a judge. Whether one is a Catholic or 423 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 1: an Evangelical or perhaps an Orthodox Jew. But whatever your faith, 424 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: the view of today's Democrats is that is a disqualifier. 425 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,959 Speaker 1: I think we saw real religious bigotry and bias in 426 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: Judge Barrett's first confirmation hearing, and sadly, I expect we 427 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: will see more of that in her second hearing. And 428 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: I would note the text of the Constitution explicitly prohibits 429 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: a religious test for public office. So the framers the 430 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: Constitution anticipated that you could have this kind of religious bigotry, 431 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: and they rode into the Constitution you can't have a 432 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: religious test for whether someone should serve. They were right 433 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: then and they're right now. You may have been there 434 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: the day that Kala Harris actually asked a nominee to 435 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: be a federal judge about his membership in the Knights 436 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: of Columbus, which is a very large Catholic benevolent charity, 437 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: and she was sort of implying that, by definition, if 438 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: you belong to the Knights of Columbus, you couldn't be 439 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: acceptable federal judge. And I just thought it was remarkable. 440 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: I do remember that well. And you're right that there 441 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: were several Senate Democrats who took the position that if 442 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: you had been involved in the Knights of Columbus, that 443 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: was a disqualifying aspect. You think back to jfk the 444 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: Democratic Party. There used to be people of faith that 445 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: we're welcomed, that were embraced. There were pro life Democrats. 446 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: There were Democrats who believed in strong national defense and 447 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: what we're called Scoop Jackson Democrats. This is not your 448 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: father's Democratic Party. Today's Democratic Party. Anyone who is conservative 449 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: or moderate or anything other than far left is driven out. 450 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: We're seeing them primary from the socialist and radical left, 451 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't agree with them. The head of the DNC, 452 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: the Democratic National Committee, said there is no place for 453 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: anyone pro life in the Democratic Party. And I imagine 454 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: an awful lot of folks, particularly up and down the Midwest, 455 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: observant Catholics who were John F. Kennedy Democrats who are 456 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: being told get the hell out of our party. I 457 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: can tell you on the Republican side, we certainly welcome 458 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: them with open arms. And I think you're seeing a 459 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: lot of people who had been FDR Democrats and JFK 460 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: Democrats who are becoming Republicans because the Democratic Party has 461 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: been so radicalized on so many issues. Let me ask 462 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: you one of the last big questions, very relevant right now. 463 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: There's been a great deal of I think mischaracterization of 464 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: whether or not you can nominate and confirm a justice 465 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: in an election. I know you're an expert of this 466 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: and you've studied. Could you just comment from it about 467 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: the whole history of people being nominated to the Supreme 468 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: Court and what made two sixteen different than two and twenty. 469 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: But in the context of actually president, I'm happy to 470 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: and they're very different circumstances. First of all, the question 471 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: of what to do with a Supreme Court vacancy during 472 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: a presidential election year, it's not a new question. It 473 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: turns out that it has come up frequently in the 474 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: history of our country. It has come up a total 475 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: of twenty nine times, So twenty nine times presidents have 476 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: had vacancies during presidential elections years on the Supreme Court, 477 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: and we know what presidents do. Presidents have nominated someone 478 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: to fill that vacancy all twenty nine times, one hundred 479 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: percent of the time. So whether one is a Democrat 480 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: or Republican, it is absolutely clear that presidents, when faced 481 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: with a vacancy in a presidential election year, put forth 482 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,719 Speaker 1: a nominee. Now what does the Senate do with it? 483 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: And again here the history and precedent is clear. Nineteen 484 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: of those times the president and the Senate have been 485 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: of the same party. Of those nineteen, the Senate has 486 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: confirmed seventeen of those justices. So the precedent is if 487 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: the President and Senator of the same party, the nominee 488 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: is confirmed, assuming they're qualified. On the other hand, ten 489 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: of those instances the president and the Senate have been 490 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: of a different party. That happened in twenty sixteen when 491 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: Barack Obama nominated Merrick Garland and the Senate was in 492 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: Republican control. Of those ten times when the President and 493 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: Senate have been of different parties, the Senate has confirmed 494 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: two of those nominees. And so the overwhelming history and 495 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: precedent is that the Senate generally does not confirm a 496 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: nominee to the Supreme Court for a vacancy that happened 497 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: in a presidential election year if they are of different parties, 498 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: and that distinction is far more than just a partisan matter. 499 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: The reason that that history and precedent makes sense, especially now, 500 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: is that the kind of budge or justice that will 501 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: be nominated or confirmed has become a central issue in elections. 502 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: It was a major issue between Donald Trump and Hillary 503 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: Clinton as to the kinds of justices they would confirm. 504 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: My new book, One Vote Away. The book opens with 505 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: the day in February of twenty sixteen when Justice Scalia 506 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: passed away and I was in South Carolina. I was 507 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: actually with my debate prep team. We had a debate 508 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: that evening. Were the middle of the presidential primaries, and 509 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: we had the South Carolina debate that evening, and I 510 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: got a phone call from the sheriff in West Texas 511 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: who had found Scalia's body. And this was before the 512 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: news was public. The sheriff called both me and called 513 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: John Cornin, the other senator from Texas, to let us 514 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: know Justice Scalia was dead. So we spent a couple 515 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: of hours actually brainstorming about okay, what are we going 516 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: to do? And I put out a statement within minutes 517 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: of the news breaking publicly. I put out a statement 518 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: then saying there are no circumstances should the Senate take 519 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: up any nominee. Instead, the American people should decide why. 520 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: Because we had a Republican majority in the Senate that 521 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: the American people had elected in twenty fourteen. They went 522 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: on to reelect in twenty sixteen and to grow the 523 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: Republican majority in twenty eighteen. And we had promised the 524 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: voters that we would stop liberal judicial activists from going 525 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: to the bench and that we would fight to confirm 526 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,239 Speaker 1: principled constitutionalist That's what Donald Trump promised to do. It 527 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: was the biggest reason I voted for Trump over Hillary 528 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: Clinton is because he promised to nominate justices in the 529 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: mold of Scullion Thomas. And it was I think a 530 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: major reason he won. And so when the President nominated 531 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: Judge Barrett, he was honoring his promise to the American people. 532 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: He was keeping his word. And when the Senate Republicans 533 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: confirmed Judge Barrett, we are likewise honoring our promise to 534 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: the voters and keeping our word. Puts it exactly the 535 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: right framework. Listen. I want to thank you for taking 536 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: this kind of time because I know how amazingly busy 537 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: your schedule is. I want to encourage everybody who's listening 538 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: to this. If you go to our show page, there 539 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: will be a link so you can get a copy 540 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: of Senator Cruz's brand new book, One Vote Away. I 541 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: think you'll find fascinating, as you could tell just from 542 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: the personal eyewitness stories the Senator Cruz had here, He's 543 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: been in a number of amazing rooms. He writes about them, 544 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: as a remarkably articulate and courageous guy, as an enormous 545 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: teacher in helping shape America. So thank you for taking 546 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: time out of your busy schedule. Thank you new my friend, 547 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: and thank you every day for the powerful voice for 548 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: liberty and careful thought and analysis and truth that you 549 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: provide each and every day. Thank you to my guest, 550 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: Senator Ted Cruz. You can access his new book One 551 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: Vote Away on our show page at Newsworld dive. Tim 552 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: news World is produced by Gingwich three sixty and iHeartMedia. 553 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Debbie Meyers, our producer is Gornsey Slow, 554 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show, 555 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: Who's created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team 556 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 1: at Gingwish three sixty. Please email me with your questions 557 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 1: at Gingwich three sixty dot com slash questions. I'll answer 558 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: a selection of questions in future episodes. If you've been 559 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: enjoying news World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast 560 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us 561 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about. 562 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: On the next episode of new t World, as part 563 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: of our Election twenty twenty series, I'll give you my 564 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: take on the first presidential debate between President Donald Trump 565 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: and Vice President Joe Biden. I'm new Gangwich. This is 566 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:55,240 Speaker 1: new Tworld.