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Speaker 1: I like being on the microphone though, Like I really

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Speaker 1: there's something that hits me if I'm doing a podcast

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Speaker 1: or doing a radio show and I'm talking, like I

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Speaker 1: like that, And it's not because of the attention as

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Speaker 1: much as I really just enjoy the act of putting

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Speaker 1: those ideas together and figuring out how to present it

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Speaker 1: largely exceptoraneously. But like, I really I dig doing that part.

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Speaker 1: TV boy, It's interesting though. It's a drug, Like you

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Speaker 1: watch how people respond to that drug, and it can

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Speaker 1: it can get people, like I've realized pretty quickly off

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Speaker 1: the TV, like, hey, you kind of gotta dabble in this.

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Speaker 1: You gotta you know, you need to be like you can't.

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Speaker 1: You can't just slam this. You'll be messed up for

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Speaker 1: the rest of your life. A. My name is Boboni Jones,

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Speaker 1: and I host The Right Time with Boboni Jones, A

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Speaker 1: Way Sports and Entertainment and listen to Brian forget how

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Speaker 1: to say my name?

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and we're back on another beautiful Tuesday with

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Speaker 2: another beautiful episode. If I do say so myself, of

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Speaker 2: Off the Beat, I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. Now,

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Speaker 2: as you heard, my guest today is Bomani Jones. Now

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Speaker 2: I want it on record that I do know how

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Speaker 2: to say his name, Bomani, Boumani, Boumani. Now, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: be honest with all of you here, as I was

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Speaker 2: with Baumani shortly after this misstep, exactly twelve minutes after

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Speaker 2: this recording, I tested positive for COVID. Yes, I suspected

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Speaker 2: that I might have it, and indeed I did, so,

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Speaker 2: you know, COVID brain And the whole sentence came out wrong,

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Speaker 2: and I said Bommi, and he came right for me.

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Speaker 2: I deserve it, you know what, O'mani. In exchange, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to give you a privilege that I've never ever

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Speaker 2: extended to anyone else. You can call me Ryan or Kevin,

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Speaker 2: your choice. I'm feeling fine now, by the way, just

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Speaker 2: a little clouded brain, but I so enjoyed this conversation.

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Speaker 2: Beaumani is one of the smartest, most interesting voices out

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Speaker 2: there today in sports journalism or really anywhere. He's a

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Speaker 2: fascinating guy when discussing really any topic. In fact, the

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Speaker 2: secret to his success is he can connect with people

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Speaker 2: about a lot of different things. He can make a

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Speaker 2: thoughtful and deep argument on any topic he just happens

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Speaker 2: to get paid to do it about sports. He is

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Speaker 2: or has been, a music and culture writer, a radio host,

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Speaker 2: a television personality, a podcaster, and an economist, though not

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Speaker 2: necessarily in that order. Most recently, you can find him

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Speaker 2: three days a week giving nuanced insight and context to

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Speaker 2: the sports world and many other topics on his new

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Speaker 2: the rebooted podcast The Right Side. He also hosts The

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Speaker 2: Evening Jones, which has been going strong since the year

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Speaker 2: two thousand and eleven. It's incredible. If that podcast were

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Speaker 2: a person, it would be in middle school by now,

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Speaker 2: and that that's pretty crazy. He is so interesting. His

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Speaker 2: story is interesting, his family is interesting. Talking to him

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Speaker 2: was so much fun. So here is a man that

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Speaker 2: could never have COVID brain even if he tried.

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Speaker 3: Bow money Jones. Bubble and Squeak.

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Speaker 4: I love it, Bubble and squeak, A.

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Speaker 3: Bubble and squeak. I could get every.

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Speaker 4: Mole lift over from the ninet before.

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Speaker 3: What's up for money?

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Speaker 1: Hey man? How are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing all right? How are you.

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Speaker 1: Doing all right? Good to be on with you.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for joining me. I know

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Speaker 2: it's a very busy day in the world. Of sports,

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Speaker 2: always something happening.

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you this, I can't pass up the

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Speaker 1: rare opportunity to meet a white person from actual Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't happen very often.

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Speaker 2: Well, first off, thank you, that's very humbling to hear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard you were you were born there, But

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Speaker 3: when did you move to Houston?

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Speaker 1: So we moved to Houston when I was seven, but

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Speaker 1: I went to Clark Atlanta for the undergrad and my

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Speaker 1: parents have been back in Atlanta since ninety seven, so

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Speaker 1: I kind of got like a dual citizenship going with Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've spent definitely more time in the last

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Speaker 1: twenty five years in Houston than I have in Atlanta.

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Speaker 3: Right, what was the reason for the move to Houston.

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Speaker 1: Oh, my parents got a differ and gigs, Like they

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Speaker 1: were professors, so they were working at what was Dan

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Speaker 1: Clark College at the time, and then we're working at

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Speaker 1: a school call Prairie View A and M. And then

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Speaker 1: my dad got the job back at COAU and so

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Speaker 1: went back there. So, like my brother and sister grew

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Speaker 1: up in Atlanta, like they were ten years older than me,

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Speaker 1: so that's all they knew. Really growing up.

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Speaker 2: Your parents, I understand were Well, you just said they

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Speaker 2: were teaching in college. They were intellectuals, a political scientist

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Speaker 2: and an economists and economists. Was education important to you

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Speaker 2: growing up in your home? Were you having intellectual conversations

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Speaker 2: over dinner?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would probably say it's fair to say that

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Speaker 1: they were intellectual conversations over dinner, though I don't think

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Speaker 1: I realized that's what they were, because they were just

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Speaker 1: kind of the conversations over dinner. Like the thing about

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Speaker 1: my parents, I always tell people that, like when you

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Speaker 1: tell people that your parents are professors, like they imagine

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Speaker 1: that you were living like the Huxtables on the Cosme Show,

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Speaker 1: and they're like jazz intermissions for dinner and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But we're very way more I'd say, I guess regular

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Speaker 1: than that. So intellectually yes, but always without pretense. Which

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Speaker 1: is probably the best thing I got out of growing

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Speaker 1: up with those parents was that you can operate on

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Speaker 1: an intellectual level, but you can also speak English to people.

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Speaker 1: What you're doing is sharing knowledge as opposed to showing

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Speaker 1: it off. Like that's a really important distinction that I've

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Speaker 1: come to find over time.

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Speaker 3: Were were your parents sports fans?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, my dad more so than my mom, but

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Speaker 1: my mom also like, yeah, that's a sports is a

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Speaker 1: defining characteristic of the Jones household.

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Speaker 3: I would say they were interested in a variety of things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were interested in a variety of things. And

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Speaker 1: I also think, like it gets interesting because my father

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Speaker 1: in particular, my mother like somewhat also, but my father

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Speaker 1: in particular, shall we say, has some fairly militant class politics,

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Speaker 1: and so the idea of joining we will call it

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Speaker 1: the elite, is never something that was particularly alluring us, Right,

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Speaker 1: So I think that becomes a big part of it.

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Speaker 1: But I think another thing that's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: larger and like a kind of macro sociological phenomenon, which

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Speaker 1: is like an interesting window or glimpse into blackness, is

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Speaker 1: every now and then you'll catch black people who can

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Speaker 1: be around enough bourgeois black people that everybody's bourgeois. But

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Speaker 1: the truth is they just ain't that many of black

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Speaker 1: people in general, of a bourgeois black people in particular

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Speaker 1: for you to really court yourself off. And that's the

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Speaker 1: world you're going to live in. And so as black person,

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Speaker 1: what you're going to have to do is learn how

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Speaker 1: to navigate and deal with a bunch of people in

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Speaker 1: different places. And one thing I was like real fortunate

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Speaker 1: with my parents, like having them as the exposure in

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Speaker 1: understanding is people want to be around knowledge, right Like

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Speaker 1: they want to be around the person who knows things,

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Speaker 1: no matter what it is. The person who knows things

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Speaker 1: is generally pretty popular, right, Like that is something that

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Speaker 1: people want. What they don't want is for you to

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Speaker 1: talk to them like the stud that's the part that

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Speaker 1: they don't like. And so when you figure out that

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Speaker 1: rather than your place as educated person or whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: is not to show people that you're educated, but your

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Speaker 1: place is actually to share what it is that you know,

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Speaker 1: because you recognize that a lot of what you know

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Speaker 1: it's things that people themselves could easily understand but maybe

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Speaker 1: have not been in a position for somebody told them

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Speaker 1: what it was, you know. So once you can become

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Speaker 1: the person who can do that, then oh okay, cool.

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Speaker 1: But that requires you to stay grounded in a certain way,

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Speaker 1: like I think that generally Southerness we know this a

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Speaker 1: little better than most people because we have to interact

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Speaker 1: with more of each other than other people do. Right,

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Speaker 1: And you learn you've been to learn how to talk

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Speaker 1: to people about this in a way to make them

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Speaker 1: feel good about it. Otherwise you gonna feel bad about it.

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Speaker 3: I think that's very very true.

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Speaker 2: Look, we all wear masks all the time, depending on

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Speaker 2: who we're with. Do you feel like you spent your

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Speaker 2: childhood wearing masks with different people depending on who it

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Speaker 2: was and who you were with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting question because I've always said that

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Speaker 1: if I ever got to be self absorbed enough to

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Speaker 1: write a memoir, right, it would be kind of centered

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Speaker 1: around the idea that like, I'm not really from here,

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Speaker 1: no matter where the here happens to be, So like

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Houston, Like that's the thing I

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Speaker 1: always say, but like the sensibilities that I have and

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Speaker 1: like from the house and everything else, probably like more

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Speaker 1: of an Atlanta sensibility. Like I wasn't in lockstep with

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Speaker 1: the place that I was in. We lived in like

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Speaker 1: suburban northwest Houston, but I went to school twenty miles

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Speaker 1: farther out from that, which was just a completely different

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Speaker 1: life experience for those people. So I wasn't really in

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Speaker 1: line with what, you know, with what they were on.

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Speaker 1: So I figured out somewhat early that I could put

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Speaker 1: on a mask if I wanted to, but I'd be

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Speaker 1: putting on a different one every time. Like there was

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Speaker 1: like very rarely, if ever it was there a room

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Speaker 1: that I got in and I was like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is the place that I was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be not so much now. The one thing that

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Speaker 1: I do, I guess I could definitely say as related

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Speaker 1: to like the mask idea that was probably true, was

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Speaker 1: that in this society, like I was just reading this

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Speaker 1: book not too long ago about Frank Sinatra, and it

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Speaker 1: made the point that Sinatra started off as somebody who

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Speaker 1: had more female fans than male fans, and then by

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Speaker 1: the end had more male fans than female fans. And

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Speaker 1: the arguments that they were making is that after he

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Speaker 1: had this fall in the late fifties and then got

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Speaker 1: back up, that that's what got men to come around.

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Speaker 1: It's like, the ability to push through the struggle is

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Speaker 1: the thing that people respect. But when you grow up

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Speaker 1: in a fairly comfortable upper middle class enviirement, you really

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of struggle to report, Like nobody

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Speaker 1: nobody really thinks it's really cool. Like I always say

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Speaker 1: with people say you ought to write a book, like oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: child of privilege did everything he was supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: That's a page turner, right, anybody trying to hear that.

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Speaker 1: So I do remember that, I, like I probably is

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Speaker 1: some way he's made my life harder on myself than others,

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Speaker 1: because I had, like the luxury of parents that if

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Speaker 1: I needed a little money, I could call them and

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Speaker 1: get it or whatever. The people I grew up around,

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Speaker 1: of the friends that I had, didn't have that luxury, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I do remember I got to graduate school

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Speaker 1: and that was struggling, and I was talking to a

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Speaker 1: guy I was in school with and he did not

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Speaker 1: have the luxury that I had on the reach back,

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Speaker 1: and I just remember him looking at me being like, hey,

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Speaker 1: cuz you better ask those people for some money. I

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Speaker 1: wish I had somebody to call and ask for some money,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so I could probably definitely say if

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Speaker 1: that was a mask, it was not wanting to be

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Speaker 1: honest about some of the parts of my life that

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Speaker 1: were easier not lying in the other direction, right, Like

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't pretending like I grew up in a neighborhood

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Speaker 1: that I didn't, but like nobody like going let me

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Speaker 1: tell you I show had it. Easy. Yeah, people don't

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Speaker 1: like that. No, no, it's not really the story.

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Speaker 3: No no that's not No, that doesn't that doesn't help

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Speaker 3: at all.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned going back to Atlanta Clark Atlanta University, you

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Speaker 2: studied economics. Then you got a Masters in Politics, Economics

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Speaker 2: and Business from Claremont and a Masters of Economics from

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Speaker 2: UNC Chapel Hill, and you.

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Speaker 3: Started working on a PhD. There was your what was

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Speaker 3: your goal?

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Speaker 2: I mean obviously these were things that your parents studied,

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Speaker 2: But what was it? I mean, one degree okay, fine,

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Speaker 2: but you know, three, six, nine degrees later, Like what

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Speaker 2: were you working towards?

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Speaker 1: All right, these are interesting steps in the process. So

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Speaker 1: I'll walk you through this, Okay. So when I got

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Speaker 1: to college, I was majoring in chemistry. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do pre mid and I wanted to be a pediatrician

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Speaker 1: find children to be delightful. I was doing the science

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Speaker 1: majoring thing, and I realized very quickly this wasn't my bag,

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Speaker 1: Like I just didn't enjoy it, Like all this lab

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Speaker 1: and these labs and stuff. I just didn't really want

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Speaker 1: to do it. And so I just kind of bounce

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Speaker 1: around without a major, and I took an economics class

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Speaker 1: in part just to get my mama off my back,

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Speaker 1: because she just believes that the solution to any problem

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Speaker 1: that you might have in your life is a class

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Speaker 1: of two an economics, right, Like, that's just a solution.

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Speaker 1: So I did the economics class and it was probably

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Speaker 1: more challenging than any class I had taken to that

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Speaker 1: point in undergrad and so I was like, cool, I'm

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Speaker 1: major in that. And then I decided I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to major in it anymore. But I had something come

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Speaker 1: up in my life where if I was going to

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Speaker 1: change my major, it would take me an extra year

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Speaker 1: to get out of college, which I was all the

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Speaker 1: way here for. Just to be clear, I knew that

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Speaker 1: the real world was not as advertised, right, right, But

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Speaker 1: a couple of things happened. I was like, no, let

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Speaker 1: me hurry up and get out of school. So I

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Speaker 1: got the economics degree. While I'm finishing my senior year,

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Speaker 1: I started freelance writing, and I realized that the media

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Speaker 1: space is probably where I wanted to go. I was

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Speaker 1: just thinking in terms of writing at that point, that's

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Speaker 1: probably where I wanted to go. And so I graduated

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Speaker 1: from college. But the right thing wasn't really paying no

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Speaker 1: money and I remember I had taken a trip to

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Speaker 1: DC because I was going to have a meeting with

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Speaker 1: a guy who said he was starting a magazine and

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Speaker 1: he was going to feature my work all over and

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Speaker 1: I was hearing what he was talking about. He wasn't

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Speaker 1: talking about paying me all the money in the world,

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Speaker 1: but he was talking about paying me living money. And

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Speaker 1: I remember I borrowed some money from my parents to

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Speaker 1: get on the road to go up to DC to

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Speaker 1: talk to the dude, and he stood me up. I

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Speaker 1: didn't hear from him. And I remember I had a moment.

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Speaker 1: I was at my buddy's house, was at his mama's house,

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Speaker 1: and I'm on the couch and my head's tilted back

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Speaker 1: because I'm so stressed that my phone rang and I

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Speaker 1: just picked it up, and it was a woman from

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Speaker 1: Clairemont Graduate University telling me that they had this fellowship

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Speaker 1: that was available and if I wanted to apply for it,

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Speaker 1: and this is August, right, this is August of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and one. And I was like, well, okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: I said I'd do it. And then in some subsequent email,

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Speaker 1: I said to the woman, I'm like, hey, so this

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Speaker 1: is for January, right, She's like, no, this is for

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Speaker 1: the fall, like this is in.

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Speaker 3: A couple of weeks, four days from now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, basically, And honestly, I wound up doing it

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Speaker 1: for two reasons. One I didn't have anything else to do.

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Speaker 1: And two I kind of like convinced myself in my

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Speaker 1: mind that what I could do is if I got

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Speaker 1: this PhD or not have the PhD at that point,

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Speaker 1: because I really didn't want to do any more economics,

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Speaker 1: like I just I really was trying to get away

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Speaker 1: from that. But I'm like, Okay, you know, the stuff

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Speaker 1: I'll learned here will probably make me a better writer.

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Speaker 1: And so I did that, and then after a year,

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Speaker 1: I did pretty well and I took the gr and

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Speaker 1: I did really well on that, and I was like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: so maybe if I got the PhD and I put

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Speaker 1: this along with the other stuff, like I could get

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Speaker 1: into that public intellectual space that was the rage at

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Speaker 1: the top. And so I did that, and then I

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Speaker 1: get to Carolina for the PhD program, and I realized

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Speaker 1: very quickly that I had a massive degree level of

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Speaker 1: curiosity in this stuff. I did not want to do

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Speaker 1: the things that I was doing, and it's really hard,

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Speaker 1: like it's a lot of work, like just elbow grease

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Speaker 1: hours and everything. I don't know. I was in the

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Speaker 1: wrong place and I'm doing all the writing and everything.

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Speaker 1: But I got myself set up. I had gotten a

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Speaker 1: column writing about music for AOL at the time that

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Speaker 1: was paid me enough to like live. I bought a

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Speaker 1: house at a mortgage. I was taking care of it.

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Speaker 1: I was living a life doing all that. Man, I

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Speaker 1: fought out of school and a column got camp like

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Speaker 1: all at the same time. And so it was funny

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Speaker 1: because my parents really would like I would have liked,

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Speaker 1: at the very at least one of the kids to

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Speaker 1: get a PhD. And I was kind of the last hope,

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Speaker 1: and all paper was probably the best hope. And then

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Speaker 1: it didn't work out. But yeah, so I wound up

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Speaker 1: getting each one of those degrees for entirely different reasons,

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Speaker 1: but they all really proved to be very helpful in

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Speaker 1: the end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So you talked there about about writing and developing a

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Speaker 2: passion for that. Now I know that when you started

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Speaker 2: you were writing about music and culture primarily. Is that

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Speaker 2: what was was initially the most interesting for you or

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Speaker 2: what you wanted to focus on.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it was the most, at least in

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Speaker 1: my mind, the most available. Like I read a book

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Speaker 1: that Chuck d wrote, and he talked about the need

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Speaker 1: for strengthening kind of the quality of the music press,

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Speaker 1: and that inspired me and made me kind of want

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Speaker 1: to go in that direction. But I was writing about

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Speaker 1: what it was that I could write about, you know,

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Speaker 1: Like I could get an album and write a review

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Speaker 1: of that, or I could talk about something that had

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Speaker 1: come up. I could see what was going on in

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Speaker 1: the world and I could respond to that, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: those are the things that I could do. Like getting

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Speaker 1: the sports was completely different for me, at least in

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Speaker 1: my mind, because I knew enough about sports writing to

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Speaker 1: know that there was a way that you got in

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Speaker 1: the door, and I did not have access to that door,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like I was not a beat writer. I

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Speaker 1: had not you know, worked at the student paper. I

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Speaker 1: hadn't done any of those things. Like if you were

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Speaker 1: to ask me at that time, how do you get

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Speaker 1: a job sports writing? I wouldn't like what I would

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Speaker 1: have thought. I probably wouldn't have known. I couldn't have

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Speaker 1: given you an answer to that. But I got lucky

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Speaker 1: that when I was really getting into it in the

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Speaker 1: mid aughts. Shall we say it's kind of when the

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Speaker 1: Internet was really booming in terms of writting content, and

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Speaker 1: the way that people were writing about sports was expanding

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Speaker 1: beyond just the things you need to have by getting

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Speaker 1: in the arena and like, you know, being a beat writer,

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Speaker 1: and I would have never known how to get that

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Speaker 1: job or how to go about that, but this other

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Speaker 1: stuff I knew how to do was so I kind

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Speaker 1: of went in through the backdoor of doing that.

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Speaker 3: That's very, very interesting, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think about this often now that there is I

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Speaker 2: don't know what you'd even call it traditional press or

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Speaker 2: traditional sports press. I mean these associated press feeds about

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Speaker 2: a game.

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Speaker 3: That just occurred.

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Speaker 2: They are the exact same that they were in nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy three. Like you know, as you set the scene,

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Speaker 2: this is where it took place. Here are the stats

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Speaker 2: here a few and yeah, like I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: give Bill Simmons all the credit in the world, but

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Speaker 2: places like grant Land that start around this time where

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Speaker 2: you start reading writers who are talking, I mean to

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Speaker 2: the point we were just making more pul political or

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Speaker 2: historical or putting a game or a person in context

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Speaker 2: to something larger than itself, which is obviously, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: to you and to me as a consumer as well,

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Speaker 2: so much more interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, you know, to be fair to

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Speaker 1: the previous generation of writer, the Internet. A big part

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Speaker 1: of what made the Internet a place where you could

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Speaker 1: do more of these more expansive things was literally just space, right,

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Speaker 1: like the idea that space is infinite on the internet, right,

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Speaker 1: you can scroll up and down forever. That newspaper. We

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Speaker 1: got this block on this page that we got to fit,

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Speaker 1: and we need words in these places, and then we're

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Speaker 1: going to make it happen. But I really feel like

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Speaker 1: the mid auts because I think it's turning back in

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Speaker 1: the other direction now. But that was probably the best

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Speaker 1: era of sports writing that we've had. And the reason

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Speaker 1: that I say that is it was an explosion of

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Speaker 1: so many different things. So we had the train died

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Speaker 1: in the wool journalists, right, who are just incredibly important

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Speaker 1: to have. But also you had like it was a

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Speaker 1: lot of these like the lawyers started getting into the game,

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Speaker 1: the professors started getting into it. You just had a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who also people who were like well

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Speaker 1: known professional writers who just decided they wanted to dabble

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Speaker 1: in sports a little bit more like I worked at

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Speaker 1: ESPN dot COM's page too, and like Hunter Thompson is

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Speaker 1: writing columns, right, Hunter Thompson not a sports writer, but

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Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, you know, like you're you know right

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Speaker 1: in that page. Show him on a page with a

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Speaker 1: hundred Thompson Ralph Wiley. Bill Simmons was the one who rose,

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Speaker 1: but I'm there at the same time, and he plays

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Speaker 1: a big role in people like me recognizing that there

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Speaker 1: might be other ways that you could go about getting

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Speaker 1: in and talking about sports. And I think that people

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Speaker 1: are going to look back on a lot of the

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Speaker 1: stuff that was being done in that time and like

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Speaker 1: maybe the ten years after that, and it brought the

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Speaker 1: world into sports coverage in a way that I don't

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Speaker 1: think it really existed previously.

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Speaker 2: Once you started writing about sports, both for page two

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Speaker 2: and others, does that fairly quickly become your focus as

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Speaker 2: opposed to music culture, you know, entertainment, other things like

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Speaker 2: is sports it for you where you see your place?

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Speaker 1: Not? No? Okay, overall, I would say no. Part of

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Speaker 1: why sports became the focus was quite honestly, that other

424
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Speaker 1: stuff just didn't pay a living wage. Like I still

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Speaker 1: dabbled in a lot of ways in doing some of

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Speaker 1: the other stuff. Like now I'm at the point where

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Speaker 1: if I want to write something about music, it's because

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Speaker 1: I want to do it, Like I'm I basically do

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Speaker 1: that for free if I decide that that's the space

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Speaker 1: that I want to go in. I do a lot

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Speaker 1: more podcasting now, and so I'm at the point now

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Speaker 1: of people knowing me and I guess of being visible

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Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, that I got leeway

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Speaker 1: where I can talk about these other things, like Cason point.

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Speaker 1: When COVID hit in twenty twenty, sports podcasts in particular,

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Speaker 1: the numbers just all knows did we ain't had no

437
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: games to talk about, Like why would we do this?

438
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 1: The numbers for my podcast actually went through the roof

439
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: because people understood that without sports, we still had other

440
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: things to talk about, you know. So I figured out

441
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: how to judiciously kind of bring those things into those

442
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: other spaces. Did I do a few little CNN hits

443
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: here and there talk about the politics and stuff if

444
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: I feel like it, because sometimes I just don't like

445
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 1: that ain't really the most fun stuff to get into.

446
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: Like I went up there one night to do the

447
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: CNN stuff. It was like ten o'clock, and I think

448
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: it was after somebody shot up one of them places.

449
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: I can't remember which one. I feel like Tennessee, but

450
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: it was one of the places that it got shot up,

451
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, man, this is saying like we

452
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: just all in here. It is late at night. I'm

453
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: not even getting paid, and this is say it.

454
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the wheel keeps turn on and on. Just

455
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: the other day, I mean, the same story over and over.

456
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: It It does become like beating your head against the wall, right,

457
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 2: some of the some of those politics or I don't

458
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: even know politics, current events stories.

459
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's I think the thing I've learned over time,

460
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: especially the Internet has helped me learn this and a

461
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: lot of times the hard way, Like I ain't got

462
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: to talk about everything right, like I could stop it

463
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: figure out what it is that I do and do

464
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: not want to discuss, which makes I think a lot

465
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: of it a lot more enriching and then a lot

466
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: more fun. But yeah, no, current events especially now that

467
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: like sports coverage has ruined every other kind of coverage.

468
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: And I mean that in the sense that like Jeff

469
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: Zuckery's always talk about this with CNN that he kind

470
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: of want to CNN to be like ESPN. I'm like, well, buddy,

471
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: what you do over there is actually important. Like we

472
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: come up with contrived argument stuff over here because it's

473
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: kind of like a big old barber shop. I'm I

474
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: supposed to do this with the actual news, you know,

475
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: and he's get all stuff. Man, everybody just kind of

476
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: going home and everybody back and forth, and it's just like, hey,

477
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to talk about these things anymore.

478
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I think in a way though

479
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: what he said has happened. It's just they're just different

480
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 2: barbershops that talk about things in the same way, and unfortunately,

481
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: too often we don't talk about them together or directly together.

482
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: I think that's part of the problem.

483
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And that's where I get kind of lucky

484
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: with a lot of my work because I don't know

485
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: if you know this, but among certain groups of people,

486
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a polarizer figure. But while there

487
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: are those that if I'd be at one end of

488
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: that pole, there's a lot of people in the middle

489
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: who kind of and this is where sports in a way,

490
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to say it's like a trojan horse necessarily,

491
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: but I got enough credibility of one space that I

492
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: can get people to listen to me about some of

493
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: the other spaces, and they can hear things that they

494
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: really might not hear otherwise. And I don't even mean

495
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: that like in some sort of dogmatic way or like

496
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: I'm trying to beat people over the head with it necessarily,

497
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: but just to huh. I hadn't thought about it like that, right,

498
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: And that's a privilege that's afforded to me, honestly, And

499
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate and lucky in that regard, because you know,

500
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: sometimes you got to put the medicine in the apple sauce.

501
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: I can do that with them knowing that the medicine

502
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: might be there, and they're still like, oh okay, cool.

503
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: Well if he says that I might want to give something,

504
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: you know, maybe this applesace ain't so bad.

505
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: Do you think that around this time you're writing for

506
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: page two, you start appearing on television shows like Outside

507
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: the Lines, around the Horn, to name a few. First off,

508
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: did you initially like being on camera?

509
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 3: I mean, you wanted to be a writer. Now suddenly

510
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 3: you're on camera.

511
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: Yoh, So the camera thing is really interesting in that

512
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't mind being on camera, okay, but I don't

513
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: love being on camera. Like I've taken long stretches of

514
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: time off from being on TV and all of that,

515
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: and I don't ever feel like, man, I really miss

516
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: everybody looking at my face. Like you ever seen that

517
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: movie I think it's called soap Dish, like Sally Field, Yeah,

518
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: you Goldberg, right, you know about the woman and she

519
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: would stage these moments in the mall where somebody would

520
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: be like, oh my gosh, is this such and such

521
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: the sun also sets, right, you know, and just go

522
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: about it because she needed that drug and that attention

523
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: and that rush. And I hate that part right like

524
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: I enjoyed. I think it's because for me, I came

525
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: around a lot of this stuff in my like mid thirties.

526
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 1: I was a foreign person. I was good with who

527
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: I was, So like being on camera. There's a level

528
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: of like looseness with it that I have to learn

529
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: at different points, in part I admit, because I'm afraid

530
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: people are gonna be like, boy, he sure loves being

531
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: on camera a little bit too much, Like you know

532
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: that that's not the natural part of me. I like

533
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: being on the microphone though, like I really there's something

534
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: that hits me if I'm doing in a podcast or

535
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: doing a radio show and I'm talking like I like that,

536
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: And it's not because of the attention as much as

537
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: I really just enjoyed the act of putting those ideas

538
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: together and figuring out how to present it largely exceptoraneously.

539
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: But like, I really I dig doing that part. TV boy.

540
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: It's interesting though. It's a drug, Like you watch how

541
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: people respond to that drug and it it can it

542
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: can get people, like I've realized pretty quickly off the TV, like, Hey,

543
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: you kind of gotta dabble in this. You gotta you know,

544
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: you need to be You can't. You can't just slam this.

545
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: You'll be messed up for the rest of your life.

546
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 3: You know it always and I don't.

547
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 2: I don't know him obviously being in southern California for

548
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: a long time. Uh, and maybe you won't even want

549
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: to respond, you know, Platchki always Uh. He comes across

550
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: to me as someone who really loves being on TV.

551
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 3: He really loves being on TV.

552
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: That is an interesting thing that I don't know if

553
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: I had fully thought about, like how much he loves it.

554
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: I love that guy, by the way, Justin and.

555
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: I'm not speaking any Oh yeah I do. When I

556
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: watch him, I'm like, oh, he loves being on TV.

557
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well. The thing is the reason I say that, though,

558
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: is I like Bill Plashey so much as a person

559
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: that I reflexively, no matter who I'm talking to, if

560
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: you say Bill Plashky, I go, man, I love that guy.

561
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: Like that's just that's It's one of the more unexpected

562
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: developments of my life is how much I like him,

563
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: like as a person, but like what he page, that

564
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: guy loves being all camera. Yeah, that one's that one's

565
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: fair to say. I do think I think Bill is

566
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: probably one as most of the guys on around the

567
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: Horn work because they were all we got to remember,

568
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: they're all newspaper guys, and this is before we were

569
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: putting all those guys on camera. I think a lot

570
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: of them had to get comfortable with the idea that

571
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: they are now people on camera. Because they also had

572
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: a value system that had them thinking that, like, there's

573
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: room for judgment in this, right, like they had always

574
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: looked down on the TV people, right.

575
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 3: That's very very interesting. I never I never. I don't

576
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 3: know why that never occurred to me before.

577
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: But also they there's an anonymity to these columnists writing

578
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: for newspapers and dispensing their opinions and or judgments on

579
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: players or coaches or front office people. That of course

580
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: those people know who they are because they're beat writers

581
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: or they're around the stadiums or whatever. But as a reader,

582
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: you're not fully you don't have a relationship with that

583
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: person like when you're seeing them on TV. And that

584
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: show did really adjust that, which is literally because now

585
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: when I read Bill Plashke, I'm I am taking what

586
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: I can see about him and his personality and the

587
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: little comment that I just made that he likes being

588
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: on TV, that there are certain things that now when

589
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: I read his work has changed the way that I

590
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: read his work because I see him.

591
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what's interesting to me about that is I

592
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: always say about my time on Around the Horn is

593
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: that I was maybe the first regular Around the Horn

594
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: panelists who for lack of a better term, grew up

595
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: watching Around the Horn, like it started coming on when

596
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: I was in graduate school. So I became familiar with

597
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: those people as the people they were on television. And

598
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: so over the course of I guess we'll call it

599
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: a decade, I got to know the people on TV,

600
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: Like I had to divorce myself from what I may

601
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: have thought not necessarily bad, but just preconceived notions I

602
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: had of these people based on television and then actually

603
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: get to know them as people and be like, oh wow,

604
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: I had this completely wrong about insert person here. Did

605
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: I think from watching on television the Jim callistalls the

606
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: dude that goes to radiohead shows with his son never

607
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: would again.

608
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: That's who he is, right, That's interesting.

609
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: Do you think that for you because this is now

610
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: you start or you're on televis like it or not?

611
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: Do you feel like that gives you more power in

612
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 2: the other things that you're doing?

613
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: Yes, it does a couple things. One, boy, people sure

614
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: do call you back a lot faster as the dude

615
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: on television. But number two, and this is a big

616
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: thing being on ESPN regularly, Like I had a stretch

617
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: of seven years that I was on ESPN at least

618
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: five times a week, Like sometimes it'd be more because

619
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: I do this one show and they going to do

620
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: another on the same day. Like men in this country

621
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: know who I am. Like English speaking men in this

622
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: country are very, very very familiar with me, and so

623
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: when I started doing stuff like I did the HBO

624
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: show with some of the things I'm trying to get,

625
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: you know, going after having done that, there's rooms where

626
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: people know who I am at the very least they

627
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: know my name. That isn't the case if I do

628
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: this really in any other space or any other media,

629
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: right Like, I can calls, I can get meetings. I

630
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: have been able to make legitimate friendships with like people

631
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: I grew up idolizing because I'm the guy on TV

632
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: now the guy and he you know as the guy

633
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: on ESPN. And that's something that I realized very quickly.

634
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: People still really care a lot about the fact that

635
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: you were on television. Even in this day and time.

636
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, the kids o't really care about this,

637
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: They just care about streaming. Let what are these streaming people?

638
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: Wind up with a TV show and they gonna act

639
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: like it's different, Like it's it's a powerful currency in

640
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: this society.

641
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you eventually began co hosting highly questionable of course,

642
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 2: with Dan Levatard. Talk to me about that gig, because

643
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: here's the thing that it seems to me by a

644
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: lot of the work for you from the outside that

645
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 2: comes after it game theory on HBO being forefront. You know,

646
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: love him, like him, am ambivalent toward him. Dan has

647
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: found a way to really focus on a cross section

648
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: of sports and fun. I guess entertainment that it feels

649
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: like influenced you moving forward, true or false.

650
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think for a lot of people,

651
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: if your familiarity with me comes from seeing me on

652
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: TV and not having like heard my radio stuff or

653
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: read the stuff I'd written before, you might get a

654
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: narrow view of kind of how I do it.

655
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 3: Now.

656
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: Keep in mind, I'm doing this showed up on a

657
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: Round the Horn and the second time that he won

658
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: and broke out a championship belt like I'm here for

659
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: the good time in its own way. But what highly

660
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: questionable had that no other show has ever had or

661
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: probably ever will have, is Dan mocking the whole concept

662
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: of sports television by saying, I can put my father

663
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: up here and we can still make a show out

664
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: of it. Right, I can have him say what is off?

665
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,239
Speaker 1: It's what he things, but it's often the same thing

666
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: you're a local columnist is saying, But it's my dad

667
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: that's doing the thing. Where I was helpful to Dan

668
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: though in that regard is Dan doesn't get that people

669
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: do want to take this fort stuff seriously, and so

670
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: you can dismiss that idea all that you want. You

671
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: still got to give them some of the serious stuff

672
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: because that is why they're here. They just don't need

673
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: it to be as serious as it is in some

674
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 1: of the other places. But yet Dan. Working with Dan

675
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: was very helpful and having a reminder that you don't

676
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: have to make this scene more serious than it is. Like,

677
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: if this part of it is a joke, then you

678
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: can kind of ride out with the idea that this

679
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: part of it is a joke.

680
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: Right.

681
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: Like for him, he's a large child, so he kind

682
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: of wants everything to be like it's not work. Like

683
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: I'm the person that's there to remind him there are stakes.

684
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: This is real. We have to be grown ups from

685
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: time to time. Right, But at the same time, there

686
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: is some value from having this large, sweaty child near you.

687
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: Well, what I have always admired about your work is, yes,

688
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: the fun, but really the thoughtfulness that you put into

689
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: your takes for lack of a better word, or for

690
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 2: you helping to contextualize a moment that is happening or

691
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 2: a series that is happening, that may pass, that may

692
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: be larger than one game or one series. You were

693
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 2: able to have fun with it. But also ticket seriously,

694
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: I do want to ask you about the hot take

695
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 2: for me, is in a lot of ways destroying the

696
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 2: experience of sports journalism. And I feel like you have

697
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: largely avoided feeling like you need to do that to

698
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: get attention. Talk to me a little bit, if you would,

699
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: about your feelings about this, And of course I'm talking

700
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 2: most famously about Undisputed with Skip Bayless and First Take

701
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 2: with mister Smith.

702
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: All right, So I will say for me personally, I

703
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: have recognized for the better part of my life that

704
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: when I start talking, people listen. So I never felt

705
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: like I needed to say something contrived in order to

706
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: hold people's attention or anything like that. Now, with the

707
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: industry of television, I agree with you that what most

708
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: people would term the hot take is a problem, right,

709
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: And I think there are a lot of people who

710
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: feel like they need to have this thing to say,

711
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: and that's what's going to make people jump out and

712
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: get it. Now, I don't mind your hot take. Like

713
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: my good friend Nick Right, for example, what he is

714
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: brilliant at is. It's a different form of what I

715
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: call the Bill burd model, with Bill Burr is so

716
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: good at starting off with some crazy premise that makes

717
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 1: you all comfortable. It's like, why not let me explain?

718
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: And then you start explaining and you're like, oh, that's

719
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: not nearly as crazy as I thought it was going

720
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: to be. At the beginning, I thought we were all

721
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: going to get fired. I thought I was going to

722
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: get fired just having a ticket to this shit right right.

723
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: My buddy Nick is very similar to that, where he

724
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: says crazy thing, but he always has like a real

725
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: defense that comes behind it. Where I get worried about

726
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: the hot take stuff for me. And this is really

727
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: a conclusion I've come to more recently than anything else,

728
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: is that is us making the story about ourselves, right,

729
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: is us making it about our ability to win some

730
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: kind of argument and go back and forth. And what

731
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: I think gets lost in the grand scheme of that

732
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: is how much like the people that we cover are incredible,

733
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: Like the people that we cover are better at their

734
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: jobs than ninety nine point nine percent of us are

735
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: at our jobs. And we don't spend nearly enough time

736
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: just talking about how much we enjoy watching these people

737
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: do these incredible things that we buy and large of

738
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: ourselves try to like reproduce a reasonable fact simile of

739
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: like we don't do enough of that now. Like with

740
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: those two shows, Skip Bayless is that person and stephen

741
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: A is the person that you see there. Like neither

742
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: of them are particularly contrived. I watch First Take a

743
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: lot more than I watch Undisputed, and I will actually

744
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: say I think that Stephen A is more thoughtful and

745
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: measured than he gets credit for. But also he is

746
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: understanding of the fact that he is expected to drive,

747
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, the entertainment of that show,

748
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: and we'll dial it up and we'll get to these

749
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: places and will seem kind of loud and everything else.

750
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: But rarely. The only times I see Steven A talk

751
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: about something on TV and I feel like I don't

752
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: know if he knows what he's talking about, is because

753
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: that man works so many hours in a given day,

754
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: in a given week that now they threw something out

755
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: there because they need it for business, and he's trying

756
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: to carry that sort of thing too. Skip Bayless believes

757
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: that he was put on his earth to argue about

758
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: sports like he believes that this is a god given path.

759
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: I have read him saying this, so he goes about

760
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: this and sees it in a much, much, much different way.

761
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: But there was a point I guess it was about

762
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: ten years ago, like that was when Richard Sherman went

763
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: on and hit them with them better at life than You,

764
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: and Janel Rose hit skipped with the thing about being

765
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: on junior varsity. It had gotten so ramped up and

766
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: it had gotten so hyped up that it is defined

767
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: that whole genre of television in a way that I

768
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: honestly think it is largely moved away from. They had

769
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: people have the back and forth, but you don't have

770
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: nearly as many and like the shouting matches and stuff

771
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: that you would see people having on television back then,

772
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: you don't have nearly as many of those. But I

773
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: also think that this current time that we're in post Kaepernick,

774
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: where we had all this stuff come up with Kaepernick

775
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: and people, you know, the whole stick to sports thing,

776
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: need stick sports and needs to stick to sports. But

777
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: I don't think people realize how far that went. Like

778
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: I think it was one thing when you were just

779
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: saying that to get people to not talk about the police.

780
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: But now when you look at it, so much of

781
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: this stuff that sports is really just just sticking pall.

782
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: That's it, And that's not like I don't think that's

783
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: really that interesting either, And I think to your point,

784
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: that takes away from the ability to talk about things

785
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: and more nuanced way, because how much nuance can you

786
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: have just talking about the sports, right?

787
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: I think nuance is great.

788
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: I think I think having an opinion is great, and

789
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: particularly from people like you who watch and experience and

790
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 2: are hearing things going on behind the scenes and contextualizing

791
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: it within at times, as you just mentioned, larger socio

792
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 2: political things I think are incredibly interesting.

793
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: But brock Purty is Jesus, Like what like? What like? What?

794
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 3: What like? What like? What is this? Like? Why? Why

795
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 3: are why are we? You know?

796
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: And then an all out fight ensuing about whether or

797
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 2: not brock Purty is Jesus uh I'm talking about before

798
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: the season is absurd to me.

799
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: But the funniest thing like party Party creates what I

800
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: think is a great example to look at because there's

801
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: this divide of football fans that doesn't get discussed enough,

802
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: which is about how much college football you actually watch,

803
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: because if you or a college football watcher. You had

804
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: opinions on what the Brock Party Show was because he's

805
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: a two time All conference quarterback and it was a

806
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: roller coaster ride, right. And so he gets in the

807
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: NFL and I look up and all these people are

808
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: talking about him like he's just a game manager guy

809
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: that just makes all the throws. And we're like, baby,

810
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: you got no idea. What's coming in the last three

811
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: weeks have been Oh that's the guy we saw at

812
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: I was stayed. But the NFL people had no idea.

813
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: So all they had to lean on was every trope

814
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: and cliche that they ever had. It's like, oh, he's

815
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: not that big, he's a white dude. He's gotta be smart.

816
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: Otherwise how could do the seventh round pick still be

817
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 1: getting this? And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, you're ready,

818
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: You're in. He's gonna do a lot of dumb stuff.

819
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: You're gonna see He's gonna do some stuff that blows

820
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: your mind too, but old dumb stuff is all the way.

821
00:41:43,520 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, of all of let's call it major sports. What

822
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 2: do you consider yourself to be? Well, what's your favorite

823
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 2: and what do you feel like is you are the

824
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 2: most knowledgeable at or in.

825
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: Okay, I would say if you were to ask me,

826
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: like knowledgeable on the history of it would probably be

827
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: college football because college football is just so fascinating, with

828
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: little to do with the actual football itself, just the

829
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: crazy people who are around it and the crazy things

830
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: that they do. I mean, after all, I let you

831
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: up on the wiki. You went to college at a

832
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: place that when you got there didn't have a football

833
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: because crazy people were doing crazy things, you know, So

834
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: like on that level, they're basketball, probably just because it's

835
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: a game. I think it's easier to understand. I got

836
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: probably more participatory knowledge of doing that. But like college football,

837
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: and it is really a wild thing. Becase I've had

838
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: this problem in the entirety of my career because people

839
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: think the college football is kind of like the exclusive

840
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: purview of white men. Like I could. I never could

841
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: get people. I'd be like, yeah, I'm really into college football,

842
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: but really I didn't. I didn't think that, Like what

843
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: what what is the reason that you didn't think that?

844
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: If I, I mean, if I said baseball, they would

845
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 1: have had less of a surprise. But I enjoy talking

846
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: about college football more than anything else because you just

847
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: wind up with these wild stories are like, yeah, this

848
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: guy tried to get that guy fired so he could

849
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: stay there because if he stayed there one more year,

850
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: he would have ten years in the state system and

851
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: then he could get a pension. Oh okay, I'm.

852
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: In, Well, what should and what is going to happen

853
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: to Jim Harbaugh.

854
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: So this is a situation where and I think the

855
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 1: longer we all live, the more we realize the number

856
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: one thing that gets you fired is when your boss

857
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: wants to fire you. That's all it comes down to,

858
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 1: does your boss want to fire you? Because they don't

859
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: have to fire him for what's going going on with

860
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: the signs, stealing and all of that. They don't have to.

861
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: But Ohio State also didn't have to fire Jim Tressel

862
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: over those tattoos. They wanted to because they thought they

863
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: could get Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer ain't walking through the

864
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: door from Michigan, right, So I think they'll probably get

865
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: some other suspension in the NCAA will try to wallop

866
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: him just to try to prove some sort of point.

867
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: Because look, now that the kids can get paid, they

868
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: don't really got nothing to do. They gotta be bored

869
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: as hell now that they can't just stop the kids

870
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: from getting paid so they don't have to come down

871
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: on somebody like hardball and make it happen. And it's

872
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: just wow, this is the nonsensical nature of college football.

873
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: We're here because some dude was stealing signs. That's the

874
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,479
Speaker 1: controversy that we got. But just a couple months ago

875
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: they said at Northwestern the boys were slapping each other

876
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: with they meet, and we didn't have no time to

877
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: really delve into that. I don't really understand what we're

878
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: doing out here these days. It's sports coverage?

879
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 3: Is it? Because it's Michigan and Jim.

880
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of it. Is his

881
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: personality that rubs people. I'm fascinated by him because I

882
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: find him to be so sincere and I think in

883
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: this where it gets interesting is people feel like he's

884
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: lying to them at various points, and I'm like, no, no, no,

885
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: he believes what he's saying. It may not be true.

886
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: I don't know what mental gymnastics he has used to

887
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: work himself around, right, But Jim is he is what

888
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: he is like. I learned to really like Barabad when

889
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: he first came out. When Kaepernick did his thing, and

890
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: he was like, I don't stand by what he's doing

891
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: or the message, and then went back and was like, Okay,

892
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: I overreacted, and then wrote so other for Time magazine

893
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: about how he had overreacted and how he started doing

894
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: work with people about trying to make sure the folks

895
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 1: have proper legal representation when they have to go into

896
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: the system and everything else. And I don't agree with

897
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 1: him on this, but he is a pretty staunch anti

898
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: abortion guy. And he had given some talk where he

899
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: talked about how he just doesn't think that people should

900
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: have abortions, which I mean as just that right there.

901
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a nonsensical premise until you add

902
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: all the real world factors into it. Like I could

903
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: see how somebody would get there and somebody says something

904
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: to him about, well, who's going to take care of

905
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: these unwanted kids, and he was like, well, if you

906
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: don't want them, bring them to my house. And I'm

907
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: telling you right now, he meant that if you showed

908
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: up in his house and put a baby in a

909
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: basket and said you said, leave this kid here. He

910
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: is crazy enough that I think that he might take

911
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: that kid in there and be like, all right, well,

912
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: eighteen more years, this is what we're gonna do. Right,

913
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: But he's so intense, and he runs so many people

914
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: the wrong way, and he's one of the few personalities

915
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: left in college football that anybody has a passionate opinion about.

916
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, see, to me, as we've been talking

917
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 2: about the variety of things that we're talking about about,

918
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 2: it's it's sticks and balls, but it's politics, there's culture,

919
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: there's race, there's I mean, to me, this story, the

920
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 2: part of this story that's so fascinating, which I haven't

921
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: heard anybody right about because I'm not a writer. The

922
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: NCAA moves like a slug holding on to a turtle,

923
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 2: so there's no way anything's gonna happen there. So really,

924
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: as I understand it, the only way they can get

925
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: punished is by the Big Ten, which has a financial

926
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: so it's in not punishing even if they don't like

927
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 2: him and he rubs them the wrong way. They need

928
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: Michigan to get into the College Football Playoff and get

929
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: that big payday.

930
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 3: For their conference. Yeah, so they're not going to punish him.

931
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 2: And it's just to me that that's what's fascinating about sports.

932
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: Well, Also, the eighties and early nineties were a different

933
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: time with the NCAA where they were willing to do

934
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: the thing that really hurt, which was take you off

935
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 1: of television. Right, you know, a joke with you about

936
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: the SMU thing. But that whole Southwest conference they went

937
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: through and got everybody just about at every point, even

938
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: the big boys, they were pulling them off television. Alabama

939
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: got to the brink of the death penalty at one

940
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: point they were willing to do that, and then they realized, Man,

941
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: all that's doing is costing people money. Ain't doing that

942
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: no more crazy, you know, So they decided they were

943
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: gonna stop doing that. And so you're absolutely right. Is

944
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: there any real incentive for there to be any real

945
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: like mechanized punishment against Michigan. Probably not. But at the

946
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: same time, you're not gonna get me all bored with

947
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: well you really got to shut them down for this

948
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 1: science stealing thing.

949
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 3: Like yeah, yeah, having a.

950
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 2: Hard time getting me to care boys, Right, you've managed

951
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: to be a strong voice for racial justice in this

952
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: field that, as we've talked about often once to just

953
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 2: put their head down and focus on the sticks and balls.

954
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,439
Speaker 3: Do you think that your voice has been welcomed by

955
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 3: and large, or do you feel like it has been

956
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 3: not appreciated.

957
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: I think it has been appreciated by Honestly, if it's

958
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: appreciated by one person, then I probably does some good, right.

959
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: But I actually think it's been appreciated by a lot

960
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: of people. And I think that I talked to Tanna

961
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 1: hoose Coats about this once and he made the point

962
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: that I said a little earlier, it's just like you're

963
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: getting people who somebody like him could never reach because

964
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: they're not coming to the Atlantic or wherever the places

965
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: are that he might be. Like, I'm able to come

966
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: to where people are. And I think that people who

967
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 1: thought they would not appreciate it at first ultimately did

968
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: come to appreciate it, because I think they came to

969
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: respect the way that I choose to go about this.

970
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: My brother made a point to me when I first

971
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: started writing that has been a guiding light in my career,

972
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: which was a good argument is not one that a

973
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: genius cannot refute. It is one that a fool cannot refute.

974
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: And so I've given example. This is when I was

975
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: working in North Carolina and it was one of those

976
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 1: Confederate flag stories that come up, like I think South

977
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: Carolina was doing their Confederate flag thing and the ACC

978
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: was supposed to have some event there and yeah, it

979
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: was all I'll never forget. Yeah, yeah, And I remember

980
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: I did a tournament, you're right. And I remember I

981
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: did some event or some show in South Carolina where

982
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: a guy who'd always been very nice to me on

983
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: Twitter asked me to come on. He had three names,

984
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: like he's that kind of country like I want to say,

985
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: it's like Alan Wayne or something like that, and he

986
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: had me come on and then next thing I know,

987
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: he's like the ACC or as I called them, the

988
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: acc PC, and he just started rolling and said in

989
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: the N double ACP said this, bonbonni? Why did the

990
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: N double ACP do that? And I go, you talking

991
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 1: to me? He says yeah. I was like, my bad,

992
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: I don't work for them. I don't know, right. I

993
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: was like, oh, what's going on here? And so I

994
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: came on my show and I know how people feel

995
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: about that flag. And honestly, I grew up in Texas

996
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: and like had a next door neighbor who had stars

997
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: and bars, bumper sticker, but it was always very nice

998
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 1: to me. Whenever we talked in the driveway, like I didn't.

999
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: It doesn't hit It didn't hit me viscerally in the

1000
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: ways that he hits a lot of other people. But anyway,

1001
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to talk about this because

1002
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: I'm not buying the arguments that people are getting back

1003
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: from me. And I never felt more accomplished in my

1004
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: career than this moment. So I get on the mic

1005
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: and I say, hey, I understand that a lot of

1006
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: you are making this argument that the Confederate flag for you,

1007
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: is an emblem of Southern pride, and that's really all

1008
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: you're trying to say. You're not jumping off for slavery,

1009
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: you're not supporting any of that, You're just supporting your

1010
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: Southern identity. And I said, that's cool. I get that,

1011
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I as a very proud Southern to

1012
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: feel the exact same way that you do. So I

1013
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: just want you to tell me, why don't you come

1014
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 1: up with something for Southern pride that we can all

1015
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: get with? Like, you know why I can't get with that?

1016
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: So why don't you come up with something that we

1017
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: can all get with? And I went to the commercial break.

1018
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: You know, people love to call the show, right, And

1019
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: I went in, and people love to call me happy,

1020
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: they love to call me mad, they love to call

1021
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: me anyway they wanted to. And we went to the

1022
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: commercial break and I said, all right, cool, well, anybody

1023
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: want to give us a call and let us know,

1024
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: just like, why can't you come up with something that

1025
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: we could all share? And I looked over at that

1026
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: phone for those four or five minutes of that commercial break,

1027
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: and it did not rain. One time. I had stumped them.

1028
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: I had completely left them flumixed and left them in

1029
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: a place where they had to say to themselves, damn,

1030
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: he's got a point, right. Those people who did not

1031
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: call probably didn't think that they would appreciate me. I

1032
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: bet you in that moment, a lot of them did.

1033
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: And so that's what I You know, a lot of

1034
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: people get mad, and a lot of people say the

1035
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: angry things, and they may say all kinds of things

1036
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: about me that I think are like accusatory and inaccurate.

1037
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: But I think that there are a lot of people

1038
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 1: that are quiet, and the folks realize who would say

1039
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: that they have appreciated some of the perspective that I've

1040
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: offered on these things. Because I'm not. I don't intend

1041
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 1: to badger every individual about it because I know it's

1042
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: a lot bigger than them. But you can listen, and

1043
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: I think that if you deal with people the right way,

1044
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: you can get them to do so that's awesome.

1045
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 2: I have to mention your father, who was You mentioned

1046
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 2: it briefly before. He was one of the Southern University

1047
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 2: sixteen arrested and then banned from public colleges in Louisiana

1048
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: for organizing anti segregation cit ins. Do you think, well,

1049
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: did he talk about his activism with you and do

1050
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 2: you think that that has shaped you today?

1051
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: So what's interesting when you mentioned that is my mother's

1052
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: actually a little bit more gangster than him when it

1053
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: comes to that. My mother, when she was fifteen years old,

1054
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: was the face of the city in movement in Oklahoma City.

1055
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: And it's these, I want to say, the second like

1056
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: second city in movement in America. The first one was

1057
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: in Wichita. This is the second one. So if you're

1058
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: ever here in the Kanye West songs where he talks

1059
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 1: about his mom being arrested at the age of six

1060
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: at the city ins, these are the city ins that

1061
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: we're talking about. And so I bet my dad was

1062
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: ready to brag to my mama when they met in

1063
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 1: graduate school about his revolutionary bona fides, and she was

1064
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: right there to tell him no. Actually, I spoke at

1065
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: the national NAACP convention in nineteen sixty and so what

1066
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: is interesting about that though, is generally yes, but specifically no.

1067
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: I've learned probably more about my parents on that front

1068
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: as an adult than I knew and really understood growing

1069
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: up at any point. Like I knew my mother was

1070
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: involved in these sit ins. I knew my father had

1071
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: been put out of school behind those, But I think

1072
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: I had to truly get older to like really appreciating

1073
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: grasp the magnitude of both what they had done. But

1074
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: I also think for them that it was important. They

1075
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: are not at all self aggrandizing people, and I think

1076
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: that it's honestly a humility that comes from it. Like

1077
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: when we left that we moved out of the house

1078
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: in Houston in ninety seven, I remember we were going

1079
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: through some drawer and we came across, you know, one

1080
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: of those cardboard cylinders and like, oh, I it was

1081
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: in there, and we look at it and as my

1082
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: dad's PhD, you know, like you know, like we're going

1083
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: about it a little bit differently here, but no, it

1084
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: was my dad made a point about his father that

1085
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 1: makes me understand him in a way. He's and he

1086
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 1: said himself, he's medaled over years, but like what he

1087
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: learned from his father was if there was something to

1088
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 1: be done, he did it. Consequences be damned, and that's

1089
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: how he winds up getting kicked out of school. He

1090
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: doesn't exactly view it that same way. But what I

1091
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: got from them, more than anything else, is a real

1092
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: picture of people who've done the real work. So now

1093
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: when you see everybody who thinks they some kind of

1094
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: god damn activist on Twitter just because they said something

1095
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: that made somebody mad, No, I've seen the real thing, right, Like,

1096
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 1: think you think you about this revolution, you think you

1097
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,919
Speaker 1: about changing the world. No, no, no, no, no no no.

1098
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: I've met people who got stories that will blow your mind.

1099
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: In that regard, I mean people that have had to

1100
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: take they fight to the Supreme Court and shootouts with

1101
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: the federal government. I've I've met a different caliber of

1102
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: person when it comes to this, and that's, if nothing else,

1103
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: the perspective of understanding what it takes to really get

1104
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: it done. Has been really helpful.

1105
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 2: I started podcasting a few years ago. It seems like

1106
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: a long time for me now, four ishs five years ago.

1107
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 2: You've been doing it basically since the beginning, your first podcast,

1108
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,280
Speaker 2: The Evening Jones.

1109
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 3: Going strong since twenty eleven. What do you like about it?

1110
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny because I started doing The

1111
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: even Jones because I worked for a company where I

1112
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: was doing a radio show out of my house, doing

1113
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 1: ID in line and every now and then, then every

1114
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:24,959
Speaker 1: now and then they would forget to pay the bill

1115
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: and so it would take like three or four days

1116
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: to get it up. But my people wanted content, So

1117
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: I started doing this just to make sure that the

1118
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: people had content. And what I liked about that was

1119
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 1: because that one is like it's a live webcast, right,

1120
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: like I take questions from people. I really liked the

1121
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: intimacy in the back and forth of it, right. What

1122
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: I liked about podcasts from the very beginning though, was

1123
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: the portability of it. Like when I first started doing radio,

1124
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: I was trying to push to people like, hey, how

1125
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: do I get this out of the podcast because I

1126
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 1: knew that would be the best promotion, Like I rather

1127
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: than being beholden whether or not somebody was in the radio,

1128
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: you know, in the car listen to radio at a

1129
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: specific point in time, like, let me get this to

1130
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: them in little bite and they could go get it

1131
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: and then as time went on. What I like about

1132
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,280
Speaker 1: doing a podcast now after having done many different forms

1133
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: of television, is it's an opt in product. Like, yes,

1134
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: I need to be conscientious in terms of my topicality

1135
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: and not go too far off the beaten path and

1136
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. But I'm dealing with people who

1137
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: decided to come here. I have more leeway, I have

1138
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: more flexibility. I can go in more directions. So if

1139
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: all of my sports podcasts, my buddy Joel Anderson as

1140
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: Slate just got through doing four podcast series on Clarence Thomas,

1141
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: then we can talk about that series for forty five minutes.

1142
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: Because the people who are here trust me enough that

1143
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: they know, Okay, this isn't sports, but it must be

1144
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: worth something that Bomani's willing to talk about it for

1145
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: forty five minutes.

1146
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

1147
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: It's that, you know. It's that it's I know that

1148
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: if you're here, you're here for me to forget about

1149
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: life for a while. You know, like I absolutely, I'm

1150
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: very aware of what this is.

1151
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 4: Uh.

1152
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 2: Your podcast The Right Time just relaunched after eight years

1153
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 2: at the proverbial mothership ESPN. You're now back on wave.

1154
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: Are you excited to be You do this three three

1155
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 2: days a week, you do video, you do you do

1156
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 2: it all? Are you Are you excited to be back?

1157
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: Now?

1158
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: Yeah? I was excited to be back. If for no

1159
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,479
Speaker 1: other reason, then, like not working for three months makes

1160
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: me realize how much work you do, you know what

1161
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: I mean? Right? I enjoy the hour of doing it,

1162
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: you know, like sometimes there's other things that are hassles

1163
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: and everything else, but I like when I know it's

1164
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: me and this audience that's talking, I enjoy getting gone

1165
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: and doing that. And so I was glad to get back.

1166
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: I'd work with ESPN in various capacities for the better

1167
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: part of the last twenty years. So I'm not a

1168
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: person that leaves there and has all these terrible things

1169
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: to say about the place.

1170
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 3: Now.

1171
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: I changed my life in a lot of ways, But

1172
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: I think for a podcast, this is going to be

1173
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: a much better chance for success, to get more eyeballs

1174
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: on it, and at a place that I think for

1175
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: the medium itself is more concerned. So you know, I'm

1176
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: glad to be back.

1177
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 2: Do you think you're gonna have more freedom? And I'm

1178
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: not asking you to talk crap about Oh oh.

1179
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: No, I get it in theory, yes, but ay, but

1180
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: don't nobody really pay attention to what you're doing in

1181
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: the first place. You got more freedom than you realize, Like,

1182
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: there's no more freedom to do it a Saturday morning

1183
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: radio or Saturday night radio show. You boss, ain't listening,

1184
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: Ain't nobody calling, Like there's no more freedom than that.

1185
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: But I have learned over time, and I've always been

1186
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: able to figure out how to say exactly what I

1187
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: wanted to say within any constraint that somebody has, And

1188
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: so I probably have the freedom to say something stupid

1189
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: in a way that I didn't have before. And I

1190
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: prefer not to flex that, you know, But I've I

1191
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: truly feel like, yeah, I mean, I truly feel like

1192
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: I learned how to do this stuff in such a

1193
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: way that now that I'm here, I'm kind of like,

1194
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: was I really losing anything? Like, oh, I can curse more.

1195
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: I probably should have been Like thing you learn while

1196
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: doing it, HBO show, it actually turns you into approove

1197
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: right because everybody is like, ooh hbo, let me write

1198
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: fuck and they put it in as many times. You're like, guys,

1199
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: we don't need the.

1200
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 3: Curse that much, all right, rapid fire. I don't know.

1201
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 3: I'm just inventing this in the moment college football team

1202
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 3: you root for.

1203
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: I used to root for the University of Texas, and

1204
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: then I had to stop because of that odds at

1205
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: Texas thing where black people are like, hey, you find

1206
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: this song very offensive. We're like, oh, black boys are

1207
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: going to sing that song, dammit. So I have backed

1208
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: out on them. I wish that Miami could get good again,

1209
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: so I could go back to rooting for Miami because

1210
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: that was Come on, rooting for Miami was a great time.

1211
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 3: You're from Atlanta, come on.

1212
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know. The Georgia. The Georgia

1213
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: thing is interesting. I do think they have the best

1214
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: looking uniforms. That is. That is where I will always go.

1215
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,479
Speaker 1: My problem with Georgia right now is they're so good,

1216
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: but it's no fun. They're just super good, right, like's like,

1217
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: let's I just need them to be a little more fun.

1218
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: That's all I need is just give you a little

1219
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 1: more fun because they are a destroying machine. They are.

1220
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: And by the way, what ified that clause in the

1221
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: laws of the State of Georgia that say the University

1222
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: of Georgia is not allowed to run a single pass

1223
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: play without at least one white person throwing in or catching.

1224
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: I don't think they've called a play in the history

1225
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: of that school. How one of those things being the case?

1226
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 1: You have to think about it. Well, no, but the

1227
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: year there'sckly year.

1228
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 3: There was yes, and also uh uh.

1229
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 2: And because he became a trader, because he decided to

1230
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 2: leave because he didn't like being understand in the fields

1231
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 2: fields there you go.

1232
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he was gonna be throwing the lad or

1233
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: brock or one of those, like at least the lads

1234
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: and brocks are good now. He used to always be

1235
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: the one where they be like, oh, that's Matthew Safford's roommate.

1236
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: You always throwing out there like that.

1237
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 2: I recently saw your take. I find him so fascinating. Wimby,

1238
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 2: I mean, is it the most exciting rookie? Said Shack.

1239
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: That's more closest example that I can get to. It's

1240
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: more exciting for me than lebron was. And Shaq I

1241
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: think is a good example because Shaq had done three

1242
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: years of college, so there was reason to think that, like, oh,

1243
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: he's gonna jump like that's back when rookies of that

1244
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: caliber could jump in and be NBA players. And Shaq

1245
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: was like, wow, I've never seen anything like this before,

1246
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: but not like this. I've never seen anything like I

1247
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: didn't know, Like you didn't think a human life shack

1248
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: was likely, but it seemed possible in its own way, right,

1249
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 1: Like you've seen really big guys, you've seen really tall guys.

1250
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: It could be both at once, right, I couldn't believe,

1251
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: like all the things I see this guy do, I

1252
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: just can't believe. Like I say, he looked like it's

1253
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: a grand opening, right, like them plastic things with the

1254
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: wind gets them, except he can really, really really play basketball.

1255
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: And he's an orderisme bitch too, like he's flexing at people,

1256
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 1: and shit, imbody did teach you all that in friends?

1257
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, French, the French people can be nasty. We

1258
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 3: know this.

1259
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: Come on again, I didn't know they were doing it

1260
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: in basketball though, you.

1261
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 2: Know, no, I I know, I know the whole idea

1262
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 2: of like, oh, seeing somebody in person, seeing somebody in person.

1263
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 3: I want to see him in person.

1264
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 2: It's different, like I want to I want to sit

1265
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 2: down there near the court and I want to I

1266
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 2: want to watch him operate.

1267
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. I went to Summer League

1268
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: in Vegas this year for that second reason. I wanted

1269
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: to be there for the game. And the internet had

1270
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: all the jokes about his first game. We did not

1271
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: have jokes in the building. We could not believe what

1272
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: it was that we were saying. You were watching a

1273
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: seven foot five dude out here, dribbler like Kyrie Irving

1274
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: like it just it was. It was stunning and shocking

1275
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: to see. You know, it is a difference seeing something

1276
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: like this in person. Television just takes some away, Like

1277
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: football is the biggest one where if you ever go

1278
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 1: watch football game from the sideline, honestly, it's kind of

1279
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 1: like if you've ever been in a car and your

1280
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: car broke down on the side of the interstate, you

1281
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: really don't know how fast the cars are going until

1282
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: running past you, right, same thing. No, I want to

1283
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: see this with my own eyes.

1284
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's incredible.

1285
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 2: Good luck on the relaunch of the right time. I

1286
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 2: absolutely will be watching. Congratulations on your continued success all

1287
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 2: across the podcast panel.

1288
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 3: I find you.

1289
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 2: I find you refreshing because of your depth and intelligence

1290
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 2: to listen to you always. So thank you so much

1291
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 2: for coming on here, and thank you for forgiving well

1292
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 2: for giving Southerners a good name.

1293
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me on. Man would have to

1294
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: do this.

1295
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 2: Again, absolutely, I appreciate it. Good luck the rest of

1296
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 2: the way. Oh wait, who are the best two teams

1297
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 2: in the AFC?

1298
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: The best two teams in the AFC are the Chiefs

1299
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: and shockingly, the Jacksonville Jaguars.

1300
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 3: Interesting, are the Jets going to make a playoff run?

1301
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 1: I hope they do. I'm actually enjoying that. It's making me.

1302
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: It's a fun little run. They're a little into that could,

1303
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 1: and you never get to be that in New York.

1304
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: They are a little into that could. I went through

1305
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 1: five years. It's some really terrible football on over the

1306
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: air television here. I am just glad to have interesting teams.

1307
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, I can't wait to see your takes

1308
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 2: as we continue along.

1309
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 3: Best of luck to you.

1310
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate you bad all right.

1311
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 3: Thanks.

1312
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: Bomani, Thank you so much, buddy. It was great getting

1313
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 2: to know you today. I love what you said about

1314
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 2: podcasting being an opt in medium. It is so true

1315
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 2: and I am going to continue to opt in to

1316
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 2: your show. And you're very astute analysis. Everybody, you too

1317
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,080
Speaker 2: should opt in to the right time to hear more

1318
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: from Bomani. And thank you all for opting in to

1319
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 2: hear me today. I hope you'll come back next time.

1320
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 2: Until then, feel good and have a great week.

1321
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 1: Off.

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01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 2: The Beat is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,

1323
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 2: alongside our executive producer lingg Lee. Our senior producer is

1324
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 2: Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and

1325
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 2: Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and

1326
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 2: our intern is Ali Amir Sahim. Our theme song Bubble

1327
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 2: and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed Brag