Speaker 1: Tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have
Speaker 1: been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for crimes,
Speaker 1: even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it like
Speaker 1: to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's it
Speaker 1: like to be their ally, the one outside committed to
Speaker 1: fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Bride Pacheco, and this
Speaker 1: is wrongful conviction. Miguel Salario was falsely accused of taking
Speaker 1: part in a drive by shooting when he was nineteen
Speaker 1: years old. On the evening of December seventh, nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: eighty one year old Mary Bramlett was driving home in Woodyeer, California,
Speaker 1: when two men drove up in a car and opened fire,
Speaker 1: fatally shooting her for no apparent reason. A group of
Speaker 1: eyewitnesses had interacted with a vehicle matching the gunman's description
Speaker 1: earlier that same night, and they were interviewed by police.
Speaker 1: Miguel's Solario was identified by a couple of these eyewitnesses
Speaker 1: and ultimately sentenced to life in prison without parole, despite
Speaker 1: having an alibi and no physical evidence ever tied him
Speaker 1: to the crime. Today, I'm happy to welcome Miguel's solario
Speaker 1: to wrongful conviction, and we also have with us Sylvia Celario,
Speaker 1: Miguel's wife, who has been an important part of his
Speaker 1: case from the very beginning. Thank you too so much
Speaker 1: for joining me and for sharing your story with everyone.
Speaker 1: Just to go back and to start from the very beginning, Miguel,
Speaker 1: could you tell me a little bit about your childhood,
Speaker 1: where you grew up and what your family life was like.
Speaker 2: I was born in July seventh of nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 2: I was born in Mexico and michal Kan. I have
Speaker 2: three older brothers and two older sisters. Mom. Mom came
Speaker 2: to the United States because they wanted a better life,
Speaker 2: and at that time she wasn't with my father no
Speaker 2: more so while I was six months she left me.
Speaker 2: My other sisters were taking care of me, so I
Speaker 2: was like kind of raced without my mother at that time.
Speaker 2: She came to West La Los Angeles, and then about
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, I ended up going to the United
Speaker 2: States for the American dream, you know, and my other
Speaker 2: brothers and sisters came along too, and happened to be
Speaker 2: raised there in Silver Lake by Eco Park in West
Speaker 2: La it was a crampy little house, like a one
Speaker 2: bedroom with like probably a little size of of closet.
Speaker 2: It was two bunk bits to my top brothers would
Speaker 2: be in the bottom. My two brothers will be in
Speaker 2: the bottom bunk, and I'll be with my other brother
Speaker 2: on the top bunk and my other sister on the floor.
Speaker 2: That's how cramped up it was. And I remember one
Speaker 2: time waking up like at twelve o'clock at night and
Speaker 2: I was so hungry. I was probably like seven or
Speaker 2: eight years old. I turned the lights from the kitchen.
Speaker 2: You see all these cockroaches just storming in and everything.
Speaker 2: So I said, you know what, I don't want this
Speaker 2: kind of property. I want to achieve something and do
Speaker 2: good something with my life. Because I was like smart,
Speaker 2: quiet kid, you know, I want to don't want to
Speaker 2: live this kind of environment. I want to do good.
Speaker 1: You had older brothers when you moved from Mexico. What
Speaker 1: was the community like? And we're gangs a big part
Speaker 1: of the community, you know what.
Speaker 2: Growing up I was just associating with, like with the
Speaker 2: wrong crowd and everything. You know, I was abandoned, neglected,
Speaker 2: and they gave me like some kind of like affection
Speaker 2: like my parents couldn't give me because me, I like
Speaker 2: to party, have fun, drink and have a good time.
Speaker 2: And you know, especially when your youth, that's where you
Speaker 2: get to meet girls, have good time, work and everything.
Speaker 2: You know, that's not a crime to meet people, you know,
Speaker 2: So it was.
Speaker 1: More like a social outlet for you. Yes, but it's
Speaker 1: something that was used against you because the police then
Speaker 1: had you on their radar because of it. Yes, Now
Speaker 1: you know you mentioned that you were a smart kid,
Speaker 1: and you showed that promise academically too. How did you
Speaker 1: get the nickname clever?
Speaker 2: So it happens to be that out of all the
Speaker 2: crowd I was hanging around with, I was the only
Speaker 2: one that really was going to school, educating myself and
Speaker 2: trying to accomplish a dream, my vision I had trying
Speaker 2: to do some succeed in life. So that's how the
Speaker 2: name came about.
Speaker 1: What were your dreams? What were your ambitions when you
Speaker 1: were a young teenager?
Speaker 2: So back in the nineties, I remember in the nineties
Speaker 2: of Microsoft, I loved computers for high school, and I said,
Speaker 2: you know what, after I graduate, I'm going to work
Speaker 2: in an office one day and climb the ladder. I
Speaker 2: want to dress on a sue ties dress is shoes
Speaker 2: and just claim the latter. That was my vision. So
Speaker 2: sure enough, I was the first one of my family
Speaker 2: to graduate high school. I was trying to set a
Speaker 2: good example class of ninety seven. And right after that
Speaker 2: I started going to college. You know, I was like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm on the major in business management.
Speaker 1: All right now. At this same time, a lovely young
Speaker 1: lady by the name of Sylvia had already entered your life.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about first laying eyes on Sylvia.
Speaker 1: How did you guys meet and what did you think?
Speaker 2: One time we had like a little kickback and it
Speaker 2: was like twenty my friends and a lot of girls.
Speaker 2: And I remember I'm always looking around and I see
Speaker 2: this pretty woman sitting on the couch. Plus she had
Speaker 2: long hair too at that time, like very long, and
Speaker 2: I love long hair. So I approached her, I introduced
Speaker 2: myself and we started talking and then she's like, hey,
Speaker 2: so what are you do in life? And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I work in a warehouse fifty to fifty five hours
Speaker 2: a week and I also go to college. And she
Speaker 2: kind of doubted me. So I was like, you want
Speaker 2: to see my college ID.
Speaker 3: That's why I say, never told a book by a discover. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I didn't believe him, but then he pulled out his
Speaker 3: college ID, so you know, I saw he had something
Speaker 3: going for himself, and you know, we just started talking
Speaker 3: and exchanged phone numbers and got to know each other
Speaker 3: from there.
Speaker 1: What was it about the connection that you guys had
Speaker 1: that made this feel so different for you? Sylvia?
Speaker 3: His personality. He's got a great outgoing personality, always happy, smiling,
Speaker 3: so during the moments I would be feeling down, he
Speaker 3: would just be there to lift me up. So it
Speaker 3: was just like that connection that we had.
Speaker 1: What what was it about Sylvia? How was she different
Speaker 1: from other girls you'd known and you dated.
Speaker 2: I felt so much connection went there because I'm always
Speaker 2: kind of like a hermit right there. But with hers,
Speaker 2: She'll come and let's go to Santa Monica Beach, and
Speaker 2: I loved that. I was like, you know what, I
Speaker 2: like that going to the Griffith Park Observatory looking at
Speaker 2: the stars, just me and her bonding doing things together.
Speaker 2: So I was like, man, I like this relationship.
Speaker 1: You told me me that your dreams for the future
Speaker 1: up until that point were computers and climbing the corporate ladder.
Speaker 1: Now it sounds like Sylvia became part of that future too.
Speaker 2: Yes, and she was also going to college too, working,
Speaker 2: so we were always like, you know, trying to accomplish
Speaker 2: goals with one another, like she was doing something and
Speaker 2: she was doing something. But she ended up getting her
Speaker 2: AA degree, so she accomplished her dream. Unfortunately with me,
Speaker 2: like I was starting college and just with the blink
Speaker 2: of an eye, my life just got stolen. I was like, WHOA, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't nine months later that both of your
Speaker 1: worlds entirely changed after meeting at that party.
Speaker 2: Yes, both of our lives just changed, the whole one
Speaker 2: pint eighty and all that completely.
Speaker 1: Take me to the night that changed everything for both
Speaker 1: of you.
Speaker 2: So that day of December sixth and ninety eight, it
Speaker 2: was a Sunday, my day off from work in school.
Speaker 2: So remember we were talking and I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: what do you want to do today? She's like, watch
Speaker 2: a good movie. We'll watch you right there and Wado
Speaker 2: really send them was in uptown Waditer, So she decided
Speaker 2: to pick that movie cycle. So we end up going
Speaker 2: and for some reason, the movie was kind of boring.
Speaker 2: I'm not even enjoying it. She's like, well, you know what,
Speaker 2: let's leave. So we went out. We're leaving and she
Speaker 2: spoke to the manager. His name was John Murray, and
Speaker 2: she's like, hey, I would like to get a refund
Speaker 2: on this movie. Mister Murray goes, well, I cannot give
Speaker 2: you a refund. What we could do is I can
Speaker 2: give you two free passes. You could come watch any
Speaker 2: movies whenever you guys want. That's bargain. That's cool, all right.
Speaker 2: So he gave us two step tickets and we took off.
Speaker 1: And then Sylvia, why don't you pick it up from there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so after the movies, we just we drove down
Speaker 3: with your boulevard and went to his sister, Sandra's house
Speaker 3: and peta Riverta. She had a little gathering there and
Speaker 3: that's where we remained the rest of the night.
Speaker 1: So you guys are hanging out there, and then at
Speaker 1: some point, Miguel, your brother Pedro leaves to go get beer.
Speaker 1: I think did he ever come back while you guys
Speaker 1: were there.
Speaker 2: Not that I recall, you know, because we were there
Speaker 2: probably like close to midnight, you know, And we end
Speaker 2: up leaving like wrong midnight or so, she dropped me
Speaker 2: off at my house and waitier and I told her, hey,
Speaker 2: when you get home, Paige me so I could know
Speaker 2: you got home safe. So she ended up paging me,
Speaker 2: and we spoke out into like one thirty word of
Speaker 2: both like you hang up, no, you hang up, you know,
Speaker 2: one of them kind of things at that time. So
Speaker 2: we're like, you know what, let's just hang up. At
Speaker 2: the same time, we end up hanging I go, really,
Speaker 2: I go. We got both hang up because we both
Speaker 2: have a busy schedule for tomorrow.
Speaker 1: So it was just an ordinary night for you two.
Speaker 1: But that same evening, an eighty one year old woman
Speaker 1: named Mary Bramlett was shot from another car while she
Speaker 1: was stopped at a red light and later died. Six
Speaker 1: people who were driving in a car nearby and had
Speaker 1: seen the shooter minutes before, were later called as witnesses
Speaker 1: by the police, and one of them, Angelica Martinez, thought
Speaker 1: that she had heard someone shout your nickname, Clever, and
Speaker 1: that she maybe recognized you based on a photo array
Speaker 1: she was shown by police, but she wasn't positive. And
Speaker 1: then what happened next Miguel So.
Speaker 2: On December ninth. Three days later, I believe like around
Speaker 2: six or seven in the morning, you know, I was
Speaker 2: Bredy getting ready to go to school and go get
Speaker 2: my day started.
Speaker 3: I remember that day clearly. There was probably about twenty
Speaker 3: cop cars surrounding his house. Looking out the window and
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, why are these cop cars here?
Speaker 3: I mean, we had no clue. I had no clue
Speaker 3: what was going on.
Speaker 2: So they raid my house and I'm like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: Like swarmed in and they handcuffed me, and you're being
Speaker 2: on the rest we got to question. You're like, okay, I.
Speaker 3: Was even treated as a criminal. They put me in
Speaker 3: the cop car. I was only nineteen. You know, it
Speaker 3: can be intimidating. I've never been inside of a cop
Speaker 3: car before. Once they had searched the whole house, I
Speaker 3: remember one of the officers had told me what they
Speaker 3: were trying to charge Migual for, and I told him, like,
Speaker 3: that's impossible. He was with me the whole time. He
Speaker 3: couldn't have done this, you know. And from that Sunday
Speaker 3: it was an ordinary day that me and him had
Speaker 3: spent together. And three days later, like your whole life
Speaker 3: just changes.
Speaker 1: And so you guys get to the station and then
Speaker 1: what happens, you.
Speaker 2: Know, Like they took me and tied to Picco diveda
Speaker 2: shares and they questioned me. They read me my rights
Speaker 2: and everything, and they're like, what did you do? December sixth,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety. They're like, oh, well, you want to turning
Speaker 2: go no, I'll cooperate. I'll tell you exactly what I'm
Speaker 2: what I did, and what same story that I was
Speaker 2: with her and everything, just like that I was with
Speaker 2: her and I was, you know, my whole day because
Speaker 2: my day off from work. They didn't really say too much,
Speaker 2: like hey, we're for investigating this and murdering. I'm like, huh,
Speaker 2: you know, like I have no knowledge where you guys
Speaker 2: tell me and you guys are excusing me of something
Speaker 2: I have no knowledge of. So they helped me for
Speaker 2: like seventy two hours, you know. And during those seventy
Speaker 2: two hours, the homicide detective mcadary's like, you know, where
Speaker 2: me go. I know you had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2: Here's my card. Go do my investigation, go find out
Speaker 2: who did it. If not, I'm gonna come after you
Speaker 2: whether you did it or not.
Speaker 1: So Detective macldairy said you saw this for me or
Speaker 1: I'm charging you with the crime exactly now. Was that
Speaker 1: the first time you had ever met Detective mackldery.
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the only time I ever heard of
Speaker 2: that name Macldery.
Speaker 1: You know, had you ever had any run ins with
Speaker 1: the law before that.
Speaker 2: I had a dui before with a CHP officer, but
Speaker 2: I never been to in and out of prison. Don't
Speaker 2: got no criminal history or nothing like that. So all
Speaker 2: I've been really arrested was like for like a misdemeanor.
Speaker 1: And then two days later they have to release you
Speaker 1: because there's not sufficient evidence to keep you.
Speaker 2: They raised in my house, they didn't find nothing, no weapons,
Speaker 2: no nothing, they have nothing. They released me on a
Speaker 2: Friday night. So after I got released, I told Siviy,
Speaker 2: you know what, we have to go back to the theaters,
Speaker 2: go retreat the Survelliance tape. So we go show the
Speaker 2: credibility of what we're saying is the truth. So we
Speaker 2: went back on Sunday and we went and we talked
Speaker 2: to mister John Murray. I told him the situation, I'm
Speaker 2: being falsely accused. I need to first, I told you,
Speaker 2: I need the Surveillians tape. He goes, you still got
Speaker 2: your stuff ticket He goes, Yeah, he goes, I got
Speaker 2: some good news and some bad news. The bad news
Speaker 2: is that the surveillians tape rewinds every only two hours
Speaker 2: and then records over the same take. But if you want,
Speaker 2: I remember you guys, he goes, here's my home phone
Speaker 2: number and my office if you guys need me to
Speaker 2: have your attorney contact me and everything.
Speaker 1: Because you guys both knew that you not only had
Speaker 1: an alibi, you were one another's alibis. Were you sure
Speaker 1: that this would just blow over, Miguel.
Speaker 2: You know what, like I never I never knew that
Speaker 2: this would actually happen, you know, I was, like you
Speaker 2: believe in the justice system and everything. Like I was
Speaker 2: just still I'm still shot disappointed.
Speaker 1: Actually, so, Sylvia, you also had interaction with the same detective.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about being questioned by Detective macaeldairy
Speaker 1: and how you felt about those interactions?
Speaker 3: As time passed by mcaelderry and another detective came to
Speaker 3: my job in Baldwin Park where I was working at
Speaker 3: at the time, and started questioning me. They even threatened
Speaker 3: me if I wasn't saying the truth, they were going
Speaker 3: to throw me in behind bars. I was looking at
Speaker 3: jail time, so, you know, a lot of intimidation trying
Speaker 3: to take me to jail because they thought I was
Speaker 3: covering up for him.
Speaker 1: Did they ever try to get you to turn on
Speaker 1: the goun.
Speaker 3: They tried to get me to turn on him. They
Speaker 3: would ask me questions as far as he was ever
Speaker 3: mean to me, or you know, he's a dangerous person.
Speaker 3: You need to stay away from him, and like none
Speaker 3: of that is even true.
Speaker 1: And then it's kind of like you were thrown into
Speaker 1: the court of public opinion even before you even saw
Speaker 1: the inside of a courtroom, because the day you were arrested,
Speaker 1: your photo was plastered on the front page of the
Speaker 1: local paper.
Speaker 2: Yes, when I got released afterwards, my whole face was
Speaker 2: shown in the newspaper with your daily news on the
Speaker 2: media of the news, and I was so humiliated. Pull
Speaker 2: yourself from my shoes. Your face is being human aid
Speaker 2: telling the world that you come into a crime, that
Speaker 2: you killed this individual, and your whole faate muction's right there.
Speaker 2: How humiliating could that be? You know, it's like the
Speaker 2: worst feeling of person could feel.
Speaker 1: You know, But after your photo had been made public,
Speaker 1: two of the people who had been in that second
Speaker 1: car were again shown your picture in a photo array,
Speaker 1: this time on a group of people who were gathered
Speaker 1: near a van in the Quiet Village Gangs area. You
Speaker 1: were in that group, Miguel, but about fifteen feet away
Speaker 1: from the van. The police claimed that they found a
Speaker 1: three point fifty seven revolver underneath the van, and they
Speaker 1: connected it to the Mary Bramlet shooting and then to
Speaker 1: you through an informant who said it was your gun
Speaker 1: even though it was not. And then a month later
Speaker 1: you were arrested again.
Speaker 2: Like I mentioned maclberry, since I was in cooperative man,
Speaker 2: I had no knowledge, Soul. I didn't do his dirty job.
Speaker 2: He's like, you know what I told Migil, whether he
Speaker 2: was gifts or now all going to come after he
Speaker 2: kept this word, they found that three fifty seven. I'm
Speaker 2: not knowing that's the weaponr what it was. And again
Speaker 2: here comes again storming in my house, marsh on fifth,
Speaker 2: and they arrest me. I was like again like like,
Speaker 2: what's going on here? And this nightmare is turning it
Speaker 2: all over again.
Speaker 1: So, Sylvia, how did you find out that he was
Speaker 1: arrested for the second time?
Speaker 3: My sister in law at the time. She called me
Speaker 3: and she said, hey, you know, they arrested Miguel second time.
Speaker 3: I'm like what I was like, Oh my goodness, Like
Speaker 3: this nightmare it's about to begin, you know. And it
Speaker 3: was a horrible feeling.
Speaker 1: Miguel, you're charged with first degree murder for the shooting
Speaker 1: of Bramlett and six counts of assault with a firearm
Speaker 1: for all of the passengers that were also in the
Speaker 1: other vehicle.
Speaker 2: I remember in August of ninety nine, I went to
Speaker 2: court and I remember the Diegos honored we're going to
Speaker 2: drop the death penalty on Miguel and we're going to
Speaker 2: give him life without the possibility of parole. And I
Speaker 2: was just shocked, like, oh, these people are trying to
Speaker 2: kill me. If they were trying to give me the
Speaker 2: death penalty, like are you serious?
Speaker 1: And so you knew going into that trial that you
Speaker 1: were up against the system in a horrible way. What
Speaker 1: was that like that period for both of you as
Speaker 1: he's awaiting trial, because you've been taken away from life
Speaker 1: as you know it, and you've been taken away from
Speaker 1: each other. Sylvia, how did you try to support Miguel
Speaker 1: during that time?
Speaker 3: It was hard because for me about the justice system
Speaker 3: took someone that meant so much to me. They took
Speaker 3: him away, and that feeling is it was like an
Speaker 3: agony feeling, a feeling of agony that of anguish you
Speaker 3: just you can't control. So I have to learn how
Speaker 3: to accept. Okay, they took him away, and after adapting
Speaker 3: accepting what had happened, I learned to cope with it
Speaker 3: and be you know, his basically his advocate.
Speaker 1: What point did you make that decision? Did you realize
Speaker 1: that you were going to be there for him no
Speaker 1: matter what.
Speaker 3: Since day one, since the time of the incident that happened.
Speaker 1: Miguel, would you have just assumed that after nine months,
Speaker 1: this young woman with a bright future and ambitions would
Speaker 1: stick to you and stick by you the way she has.
Speaker 2: I remember that as I mentioned about the that penalty,
Speaker 2: I give her a car and I explained to her
Speaker 2: what happened. And she's a Miguel, You're completely innocent. I
Speaker 2: know for fact, I was with you that night. We're
Speaker 2: gonna fight, and from that moment on we were determined to,
Speaker 2: you know, do whatever it takes to fight and get justice.
Speaker 2: Be your voice, be heard, to find no matter.
Speaker 1: What right, and then Miguel. The trial began in February
Speaker 1: of two thousand. Two of the witnesses from the second
Speaker 1: car were called to testify. Martin Leva identified Miguel, but
Speaker 1: Angelica Martinez admitted on the stand that she wasn't sure
Speaker 1: it was you. She said, it kind of looked like you.
Speaker 1: And that's interesting because, as it would turn out, it
Speaker 1: was your brother Pedro, who was in the car that night,
Speaker 1: in a car that was registered to your father.
Speaker 2: So the interesting part about Angelica, right on the first
Speaker 2: sixpect they showed to the witnesses, did not select me.
Speaker 2: They selected somewhere else.
Speaker 1: And so in six pack, you mean the photos of
Speaker 1: suspects that they show the witnesses a.
Speaker 2: Lineup, you have like a six different individuals. On the
Speaker 2: first one, I didn't even get picked out. The second time,
Speaker 2: Angelica selects my picture right after I came out in
Speaker 2: the media, and everything contaminates the mind of a witness, and.
Speaker 1: They actually the defense brought your brother Pedro into the
Speaker 1: courtroom and on the stand, Angelica couldn't identify you as
Speaker 1: the driver. Exactly what was it like sitting in that
Speaker 1: courtroom and having that unfold because it becomes increasingly obvious
Speaker 1: that it's not just a case of mistaken identity. You've
Speaker 1: been mistaken for your brother.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like the whole situation, like being involved, being
Speaker 2: in the newspaper, and just being costly excused by these
Speaker 2: two people. It's just like so David's so hard, sad,
Speaker 2: It's just like wow, like mind blowing. That's how I
Speaker 2: was feeling at that moment.
Speaker 1: And as the Guel's alibi witness, Sylvia, you were called
Speaker 1: to testify, but you weren't allowed to watch the trial.
Speaker 1: What was that like for you?
Speaker 3: When the trial started meeping his alibi, I thought, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is going to be easy. You know everything that
Speaker 3: I had told mackelderry. I thought it was just all
Speaker 3: going to come forward. But obviously they withheld they withheld,
Speaker 3: you know, evidence that could have helped Miguel. So I
Speaker 3: thought everything was told, but obviously he turned everything around
Speaker 3: to his advantage.
Speaker 1: Well, you didn't bank on the fact that, even though
Speaker 1: you were his alibi, that a detective would end up
Speaker 1: going on the stand, misrepresenting the two interviews you had
Speaker 1: with him and lying on the stand, which ultimately discredited
Speaker 1: you and weakened your strength as his alibi, right.
Speaker 2: You think that the officer would literally speak the truth,
Speaker 2: you know, but under old he falsified information. You know,
Speaker 2: she had got interviewed by him at her job, you know,
Speaker 2: and Detective macadery did not produce that tape, and that's
Speaker 2: how he discredit her credibility, making her say that she
Speaker 2: was just covering up for me.
Speaker 1: And then the guy who linked you to that revolver
Speaker 1: in the first place ended up admitting that he just
Speaker 1: signed whatever the detectives gave him because he didn't want
Speaker 1: to get in trouble.
Speaker 2: Yes, he said he stated that he was threatened by
Speaker 2: mcadairy and he was so scared that he said that
Speaker 2: he heard about mcadery, what the things he could do,
Speaker 2: just put put people in prison for something that he knew,
Speaker 2: and he was scared and that's why he stated.
Speaker 1: That, Okay, so this is this is the the clencher
Speaker 1: for me. So then the defense also were able to
Speaker 1: call McElderry to this stand and he admitted that one
Speaker 1: he had not investigated Pedro as an alternate suspect, and
Speaker 1: that he had not investigated your alibi. So that's how
Speaker 1: you're leading into the jury, going into deliberation for three days.
Speaker 1: I think that having heard the state's case against you
Speaker 1: and the defense that your attorney mounted, that you must
Speaker 1: have felt, of course, the jury is going to decide
Speaker 1: in your favor.
Speaker 2: I was feeling conflict, feeling like optimistic, you always got
Speaker 2: to hope for the best no matter what situation you're in.
Speaker 2: And after the third day of deliberation, if they have
Speaker 2: reached a verdict, and I'm standing right there again, I
Speaker 2: remember we the jury find Miguel so lawyer guilty of
Speaker 2: first degree murder, and I remember looking at the DA
Speaker 2: and she looked at me and she just winked at me,
Speaker 2: like I got you. In my mind's like, man, you're
Speaker 2: making a mistake. You got the wrong individual, you know.
Speaker 2: And that's when my life changed, right.
Speaker 1: I can't I can't imagine the way that must have
Speaker 1: felt on so many levels, because you are now being
Speaker 1: sentenced to life for something you had nothing to do with,
Speaker 1: but your brother may have very well been a part
Speaker 1: of and he didn't defend you. Miguel, did you just
Speaker 1: feel betrayed by the system, by your family, by your brother.
Speaker 2: I was just like lost in translation that how could
Speaker 2: this actually happened to me? Like wow, like you feel
Speaker 2: your heart just shattered, crushed.
Speaker 3: I was at home at the time. I remember getting
Speaker 3: that phone call I believe was one of his family members.
Speaker 3: They had told me they found him guilty, and that's
Speaker 3: when I just I just broke down, broke down crying.
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, how could this be. Once the verdict
Speaker 3: came back as guilty, that's when you know your whole
Speaker 3: life just changes.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that first time that you saw him
Speaker 1: after he was convicted, Sylvia.
Speaker 3: I do. It was at the county jail, not a
Speaker 3: good place. It was very emotional, you know, seen him
Speaker 3: behind glass, not being able to hug him. You know,
Speaker 3: it was an emotional time for me.
Speaker 1: How would you describe to somebody who hasn't experienced but
Speaker 1: that feeling of helplessness when someone you love has been
Speaker 1: convicted of a crime they didn't come.
Speaker 3: Out agony, feelings of agony, fatness. You feel helpless with
Speaker 3: the situation someone you know being ripped out of your
Speaker 3: life from the justice system that you trust. They failed us.
Speaker 3: It was hard for me to accept what had happened
Speaker 3: to Miguel and to me.
Speaker 2: As well, like knowing the fact that when you have
Speaker 2: a life without sentence. You're never going to see your mom,
Speaker 2: You're never gonna see day, like you're not gonna see
Speaker 2: your dad, and you're never gonna see your brother's, sister's
Speaker 2: nieces anybody. I was like, you know what, I do
Speaker 2: not want to die in prison. I want to fight
Speaker 2: no matter what, because life of doubt, your break is
Speaker 2: basically dying in prison no matter what.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction with Lauren Bright Pacheco. You
Speaker 1: can listen to this and All the Love of for
Speaker 1: Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing
Speaker 1: to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. You guys
Speaker 1: make the decision three years after his conviction to get married.
Speaker 3: Well before the three years, he had asked me to
Speaker 3: marry him. It was at the county jail and I
Speaker 3: said yes, and Niguel, you want to take it from there?
Speaker 2: Yes, And it was September twenty fifth of two thousand
Speaker 2: and four when we got married. So I liked that
Speaker 2: song by Earthwind and Fire or September, so it reminds
Speaker 2: me of that moment, you know, And it was magical.
Speaker 2: It was something something new.
Speaker 3: Because I mean it wasn't your traditional marriage, you know,
Speaker 3: ceremony wasn't your traditional ceremony. But when you love someone,
Speaker 3: you just you go for it. You know that's the
Speaker 3: person you want to be with.
Speaker 2: Well, I went to visit, and I remember I wrote
Speaker 2: my little vowels she as a matter of fact, the
Speaker 2: same paper I wrote my vow she carries it with
Speaker 2: her in her wallet everywhere she goes.
Speaker 1: If you'll share, what's one special part of them, what
Speaker 1: really sticks out to you as so very special?
Speaker 3: The part where he says from the moment I laid
Speaker 3: eyes on you, that's the part that sticks out so
Speaker 3: this very day.
Speaker 1: And that party when you were sitting on the couch,
Speaker 1: she knew he was looking at his future.
Speaker 3: Wife, and I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: You guys are still in your early twenties when you
Speaker 1: make the decision to get married. What did your friends
Speaker 1: and family think, Sylvia? Did they ever ever think that
Speaker 1: you were potentially throwing your life away?
Speaker 3: I did have family members that try to stop me
Speaker 3: from getting married. However, I didn't let that stop me
Speaker 3: from making my decision. I fell in love with Miguel
Speaker 3: and ended up getting married to him despite people trying
Speaker 3: to convince me otherwise.
Speaker 1: So that's a beautiful bright spot in this really dark story.
Speaker 1: Because the story doesn't end with that happy moment, it
Speaker 1: goes on for nearly another two decades. What were the
Speaker 1: darkest times for both of you? And that was there
Speaker 1: any point where you thought this is too much taking
Speaker 1: on the entire system.
Speaker 3: A couple of the darkest times for me personally was
Speaker 3: the lockdowns when I couldn't see him from months, because
Speaker 3: prison sometimes things happen Riot's breakout. Mind you, I've never
Speaker 3: stepped to a prison in my life until I started
Speaker 3: visiting Miguel, So being in that environment, seen the surroundings,
Speaker 3: and having to deal with lockdowns, not being able to
Speaker 3: see him, that that was very hard.
Speaker 1: Miguel. That was your day in, day out, twenty four
Speaker 1: to seven for days, weeks, months, years. When did it
Speaker 1: get too much for you?
Speaker 2: You know? You guess that when your loved ones one
Speaker 2: three because visits are from like eight thirty to three o'clock,
Speaker 2: So you see your loved one leaving, you wish you
Speaker 2: could just hold their hands, just go leave with them,
Speaker 2: like take me with you, you know. But then like
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, fifteen, I believe you know, we
Speaker 2: wrote the Innocence Project again, and they finally say, we
Speaker 2: can't help you, So we hit another dead end. That time,
Speaker 2: depression did hit me pretty bad and I got real sick,
Speaker 2: like to the point where I almost died in there.
Speaker 2: I used to weigh one hundred and eighty six pounds,
Speaker 2: and I got so depressed, hit me so bad that
Speaker 2: I wasn't eating, I wasn't being responsive, and I dropped
Speaker 2: so much weigh within like three to four weeks, I
Speaker 2: was just on my bed. It's just you know, sick,
Speaker 2: and I ended up going all the way to one
Speaker 2: hundred and nineteen pounds.
Speaker 3: At that point, he was going to die on me
Speaker 3: if something wasn't you know, going to happen. So we
Speaker 3: had to do an emergency conservatorship. And I remember at
Speaker 3: that time questioning myself, Am I making the right decisions
Speaker 3: and just praying, praying about it and just having that faith,
Speaker 3: that hope that everything will come together, making the decision Okay,
Speaker 3: he needs a fitting tube, let's go for it.
Speaker 1: And what was that like emotionally when he was giving
Speaker 1: up all hope physically and mentally for you, Sylvia.
Speaker 3: Trying to support him, trying to lift up his spirits,
Speaker 3: you know, tell him, don't worry. We got this, we
Speaker 3: can't give up.
Speaker 1: You underwent electric shock therapy.
Speaker 2: Yes, I went to ect electric convulsive treatment like four
Speaker 2: to five times, right, And I mustn'tdmit. That's like the
Speaker 2: worst pain a human being could actually, it's almost like
Speaker 2: picture this. You know, if you put your two hands
Speaker 2: in the socket of the electricity socket and you hold
Speaker 2: on to it, you just hear fee electricity. Well, that's
Speaker 2: exactly what I was feeling. And I remember they used
Speaker 2: to tie me down. I even got burnmarks right here
Speaker 2: in the back of my thing and on my legs.
Speaker 2: The last one I was going to shock therapy in
Speaker 2: the hospital. I was just like as soon as they
Speaker 2: turned on the electricity for five minutes, I was yelling
Speaker 2: on top of my like, turn this off. It's the worst,
Speaker 2: you know, in the agony, you know, just it's like
Speaker 2: when you get shocked, you want to let go, but
Speaker 2: imagine not able to let go with electricity. And they
Speaker 2: were so painful that the only side of that it
Speaker 2: did give me was that it wiped out my memory
Speaker 2: from like two thousand ten to two thousand and sixteen,
Speaker 2: and wiped my memory. It wiped out my whole like
Speaker 2: a couple of years out of my mind, Like I
Speaker 2: don't remember being in this prison, you know. But the
Speaker 2: only part that I'm grateful that I know who Sylvia is,
Speaker 2: who my mom is, who my sisters are, and who
Speaker 2: my siblings. But I told you know what, I'm grateful
Speaker 2: for that I didn't forget the moment I married you,
Speaker 2: and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1: While all of this is going on, Sylvia, you've also
Speaker 1: decided that part of how you're gonna fight it is
Speaker 1: basically by becoming a private investigator. Right. You end up
Speaker 1: knowing that there are some important pieces to this puzzle,
Speaker 1: and many of them hinged with Miguel's brother Pedro, who
Speaker 1: has been writing you letters since two thousand and seven.
Speaker 3: Well, during that time in a federal prison, him writing me,
Speaker 3: it was just casual pretty much, you know, just touching base.
Speaker 3: But I remember one of them being I wanted to
Speaker 3: get an investigator, you know, to investigate mcgl's case. He
Speaker 3: had told me I was wasting my time, wasting my
Speaker 3: money if I did. He wanted to see me in
Speaker 3: person and tell me what really went down that night. Well,
Speaker 3: only a person who knows what went down that night
Speaker 3: would know. So at that time I saved. I saved
Speaker 3: all the letters, any emails, anything that would help mcgil's case,
Speaker 3: I saved. And then I just I went from there
Speaker 3: just trying to put the puzzle together, all the pieces together,
Speaker 3: doing my own investigation.
Speaker 1: And so you were able to get a statement from
Speaker 1: a woman who was involved with Patro at that time
Speaker 1: or saw him with a that night.
Speaker 3: Yes, so I hired a private investigator and she took
Speaker 3: the declaration of another person who gave more details in
Speaker 3: regard to that.
Speaker 1: Okay, And basically that connected Pedro to a weapon the
Speaker 1: night of the incident. And how did someone named Jose
Speaker 1: Perez come into the picture.
Speaker 3: That night of the incident when that happened that night,
Speaker 3: I remember meeting a person named Jose. The only thing
Speaker 3: I remember about him was he had big ears and
Speaker 3: he had a white T shirt. That's all I remember.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because one of the witnesses had mentioned that
Speaker 1: the person had big ears, and so Jose was very
Speaker 1: likely the guy that Pedro left the gathering with that night.
Speaker 1: So you had all these pieces of the puzzle in
Speaker 1: your hands, and then you were able to connect with
Speaker 1: an atturn Ernie, who's another hero in the story. Ellen Eggers.
Speaker 1: She agreed to take your case pro bono and also
Speaker 1: brought it to the Northern California Innocence Project. Correct Ellen.
Speaker 2: I remember her telling me, Miguel, you know what, I
Speaker 2: got good news to you to tell you I've been retired.
Speaker 2: I want to take two cases, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: take yours. And I was like, thank you. You know,
Speaker 2: she's just like, she's the kind of attorney I always
Speaker 2: believe that she was the one immediately. She's the type
Speaker 2: of attorney. She's like a pit bull. She's no little
Speaker 2: chiwawa turn, She's a pip like, go get her, go
Speaker 2: get things done. And that's the kind of we needed
Speaker 2: an attorney, and that's the good ultimate attorneys you need.
Speaker 3: So once Ellen took his case, you know, it took
Speaker 3: so many years, but all the pieces were starting to
Speaker 3: come together and like, okay, maybe this is it, this
Speaker 3: is the turning point of the life changing.
Speaker 1: And it happened fast. I mean after yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: almost twenty five years, so over two decades of justice
Speaker 1: moving like a frozen slug on this case and everything
Speaker 1: you guys were doing, falling on death fears. It happened
Speaker 1: in almost lightning speed. Your conviction was vacated and all
Speaker 1: charges against you were dropped. In November of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: you were declared factually in a cent a month later.
Speaker 1: Take me to the moment that he walked out of
Speaker 1: prison a free man.
Speaker 3: Sylvia, Oh my goodness, where do I begin. This was
Speaker 3: tears of joy, of happiness when he walked out. I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my goodness, Like, this is what I've been fighting
Speaker 3: for all these years, not just having my husband out,
Speaker 3: but having an innocent man finally free after so many
Speaker 3: years brought me the biggest joy in my life.
Speaker 2: Miguel, I remember the moment they finally said like actually
Speaker 2: insud like man, it was just it's like a dream.
Speaker 2: You know when you have a good dream. It's a
Speaker 2: beautiful and you wake up. You're like, oh, lets see
Speaker 2: if I could go back to sleep and dream the
Speaker 2: same dream. Well, it's a dream. That's reality finally, Like,
Speaker 2: it's real reality of innocence. I'm happy.
Speaker 1: So you know, you mentioned how incredible Ellen was as
Speaker 1: the attorney who made all the difference in this case,
Speaker 1: but she said, had it not been for his main
Speaker 1: alibi witness, Sylvia, who knew he was innocent, stood by
Speaker 1: him and married him after his conviction, he might never
Speaker 1: have seen this day. What words do you use to
Speaker 1: describe the gratitude you have for your wife.
Speaker 2: I value everything she has been for me. She's been
Speaker 2: my voice. She's been there every step of the way.
Speaker 2: They say this is my favorite quote, and this is
Speaker 2: like a true friend walks in when the rest of
Speaker 2: the world walks out. Well, you know, that's and a blessing.
Speaker 2: She's been my advokay, you know. And we fought together,
Speaker 2: and she was always believed in us, and we came
Speaker 2: to this point. I just want to say thank you,
Speaker 2: saving for always helping me fight for justice, for always
Speaker 2: being there no matter what situation I faced, You always
Speaker 2: there for me.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Miguel. Did you ever think that we would
Speaker 3: last this long? Despite this long journey and the ups
Speaker 3: and downs? Did you think we would ever last this long?
Speaker 3: Twenty five years later.
Speaker 2: As soon as I started after I got convicted, I
Speaker 2: had a vision in my mind, like you know what,
Speaker 2: the love we have for one another, the connection that
Speaker 2: felt for you, what I felt in my heart, it's
Speaker 2: going to be possible. Then possible is impossible. And that's
Speaker 2: how I see my vision that that to this day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because sometimes you think, Okay, is this situation going
Speaker 3: to break you? Or is it going to make you stronger?
Speaker 3: And reflecting back at everything is it's only made us
Speaker 3: a lot stronger. Having that hope, that faith, that perseverance.
Speaker 3: You don't become bitter, You just you become more wise
Speaker 3: and more humble with the situation.
Speaker 2: Right. We value each other, We don't take each other
Speaker 2: for granted, and we just keep pushing no matter what,
Speaker 2: and we stay had and half marching forward no matter
Speaker 2: what situation we fase.
Speaker 1: Wow, you guys very much meant those vows you took
Speaker 1: while you were in prison. Yes, thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Please support your
Speaker 1: local innocence organizations and go to the links in the
Speaker 1: episode description to see how you can help. I'd like
Speaker 1: to thank our executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and
Speaker 1: Kevin Wardis, as well as our producers Annie Chelsea, Kathleen Fink,
Speaker 1: and Jackie Pauley. This series is produced, edited, and hosted
Speaker 1: by me Lauren Bright Pacheco. Our senior producer is Kara Kornhaber.
Speaker 1: Story editing by Hannah bial research by Shelby Sorels, mixing
Speaker 1: and sound design by Nick Massetti, with additional production by
Speaker 1: Jeff Clyborne. Our theme music is by Jay Ralph. Be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us across all social media platforms at
Speaker 1: Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also
Speaker 1: follow me on all platforms at Lauren Bright Pacheco. Wrongful
Speaker 1: Conviction is a production of Lava for Good podcasts in
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one