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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I don't want your Oh hello, hello,

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Speaker 1: but where are you at? I wonder what? I okay, so,

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Speaker 1: what's what's going on? What my wife? What I s sitting?

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Speaker 1: For sitting in the barn? Okay, not a responsion on dar? Okay,

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Speaker 1: since your wife is in a barn, you said she's

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Speaker 1: on the sign up? Do we talk horn for? I

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Speaker 1: don't know? S. I don't know. I have out the

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Speaker 1: door and turned my son over to Chuck Arter. Okay,

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Speaker 1: who's yelling? Man? I'm on the rd. Okay, I'm gone. Okay,

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Speaker 1: welcome to ambulance, going to the second um. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: you're headed to Okay, what's the hospital? Are you? Okay?

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Speaker 1: You're headed to the hospital and she's in your vehicle? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: Just a second here, How did a farmer's wife end

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Speaker 1: up dead with a corn rake impaled in her back? Now?

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Speaker 1: How could that be an accident? Well, we know it's

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Speaker 1: not suicide. I mean that's physically impossible. But could it

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Speaker 1: be an accident? I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. You were hearing just

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Speaker 1: a tiny bit of that nine one one call. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to a little bit more. Let's see what

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Speaker 1: clues we can glean. I'm gonna have another descentri get on. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask the posy pull over? I can, okay?

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Speaker 1: How about you pull over? Current? What's your current location?

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Speaker 1: We'll get a petted your way? Um, I'm gonna ask

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Speaker 1: you to positive you pull over? I can, okay? How

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Speaker 1: about you are over, sir? What's your current what's your

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Speaker 1: current location? We'll get an a heetted your way? Okay, okay?

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Speaker 1: What what is your name, sir? And what and what

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Speaker 1: are you driving? Wait? Chevy waul white Chevy trucks. I

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Speaker 1: don't feel anything. I still don't understand how a woman,

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Speaker 1: a farmer's wife can be impaled in the bat and

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Speaker 1: it'd be an accident. With me, an all star panel

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Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together again.

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Speaker 1: First of all, with me doctor Kendall, Crown's medical examiner

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Speaker 1: out of Travis County, Texas. That's Austin Karen Start, psychologist

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Speaker 1: joining me out of Manhattan, Karenstart dot Com. James shell Nutt,

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Speaker 1: major case detective SWAT officer out of Atlanta Metro retired.

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, judge and trial lawyer. Court TV anchor at

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot dot com. But first to Leavivipagecrime online dot

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Speaker 1: com investigative reporter where you can read about this and

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Speaker 1: all other breaking crime and justice news. Leave I page.

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Speaker 1: First of all, explain to me the precise injuries this woman,

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Speaker 1: Amy Mullis suffered. How do you get a corn rake

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Speaker 1: in the back? Well, Nancy, she did have a corn

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Speaker 1: rake in her and we know that the medical examiner

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Speaker 1: that examined the body said that this was a homicide

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Speaker 1: after examining her body. Well, that's interesting that you could

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Speaker 1: know that from just looking at the injury on her back.

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Speaker 1: Immortal injury, I might add, I'm talking about a thirty

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Speaker 1: nine year old woman, a mother, a wife, with her

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Speaker 1: life in front of her. At thirty nine, you're just

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Speaker 1: getting started. You're starting to realize what all you did

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Speaker 1: wrong in your twenties, and you're fixing it. Doctor Kendel Crowns.

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Speaker 1: This is when we need you, medical examiner out of Austin,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns. How can you just look at a back

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Speaker 1: injury and tell it's a homicide? What you know? Typically

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Speaker 1: many many barns, Most barns have an upper level. It

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Speaker 1: could be storage, It could be anything. But if she

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Speaker 1: fell from an upper level onto a corn rake, and

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Speaker 1: you know those corn rakes are mean looking rakes. Jackie's

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Speaker 1: holding one up for effect right now in the studio,

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Speaker 1: and it looks pretty evil. It's got four tongs and

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Speaker 1: they curl the backwards. Just imagine it coming up, curling

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Speaker 1: backwards into a circle and then sharp tongs pointing upward.

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Speaker 1: It looks pretty evil. So how could he just look

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Speaker 1: at it? He or she look at that and say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's summicide. Well, the key thing is is from the

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Speaker 1: autopsy report, it says there are six injuries, whereas the

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Speaker 1: corn rake has four prongs, so that means there's at

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Speaker 1: least two extra injuries on there beyond the number of

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Speaker 1: prongs the corn raak has. So to get six injuries,

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Speaker 1: she would have had to have fallen twice on it,

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Speaker 1: or someone would have had to have done it to her. So,

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Speaker 1: unless she's widely coyote, someone did it to her. Well,

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Speaker 1: do all corn rakes have four prongs? Are there any

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Speaker 1: corn rakes that have six prongs? Well, he got me there, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not a proficiency expert on corn rakes.

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Speaker 1: So my understanding was it was okay wildly shaking her head.

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Speaker 1: No is Jackie, Jackie, how do you know there's not

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Speaker 1: only rephrased, your honor? How do you know there's only

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Speaker 1: four prongs? Always on a corn rake? Grew up on

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Speaker 1: farm work. Two corn corn races have four prongs. There

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Speaker 1: are other tools like lawn races that have more. The

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Speaker 1: core rakes only have four. Okay, now see Ashley Wilcot,

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Speaker 1: judge and trial lawyer and court TV anchor at Ashley

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Speaker 1: Wilcot dot com. Ashley, that's what you call an expert

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Speaker 1: at witness. I'd have to and believe me II the

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Speaker 1: Blue James Shelna. You probably remember since you were swat

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Speaker 1: and homicide in Atlanta Metro Ashley, sometimes you just got

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Speaker 1: to call somebody and put them on the stand to

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Speaker 1: explain that kind of thing. Like right now, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: a jury would want to know, Well, how do I

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Speaker 1: know it's not a six prong corn rak? I guess

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Speaker 1: according to expert Jackie Howard, it has to have four prongs. Well, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you can use an expert, but don't forget this. You

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Speaker 1: know this occurs where they are farmers. This is farm land.

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Speaker 1: So keep in mind a jury of your peers quote

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Speaker 1: unquote is going to know probably a lot about farm

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Speaker 1: tools as well. Okay, guys, we're talking about the death

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Speaker 1: of a beautiful young mom. Amy mull is just thirty

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Speaker 1: nine years old in her farm, on her farm, the

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Speaker 1: family farm. Let's hear more than nine one one call

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Speaker 1: life in the vehicle onwards colonsive, they're coming to Naida.

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Speaker 1: I asked him to stop there. What about the angulance

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Speaker 1: paget can you that Waysida, I've got an officer almost

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Speaker 1: to where you're ask Okay, okay, okay, I'm okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: three okay. You hear someone saying Amy Amy Amy leavipage

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com invest he had a reporter who

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Speaker 1: is that? That is Todd Mullins, that is saying that, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: So explain to me that the Todd Mullins is the husband. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he is the husband. He's forty three years old, and

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Speaker 1: the victim in this case is Amy Mullins. She is

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Speaker 1: thirty nine years old. Right, you're hearing the nine one

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Speaker 1: one call. You hear the husband saying Amy, Amy Amy.

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Speaker 1: You know that's a horrible moment. Karen Stark's psychologist joining

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Speaker 1: me out of Manhattan. You find her at Karen Stark

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Speaker 1: dot com. I remember, I think the first time my

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Speaker 1: dad had a heart attack and I could hear my mom.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I heard, early early in the morning

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Speaker 1: was her going mat mac mac and a slapping sound.

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Speaker 1: She was trying to revive his heart. That's a terrible feeling,

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, I know, Nancy. I had the same thing

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Speaker 1: with my dad, and I remember it Clearlymy Amy Amy,

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Speaker 1: because he wants this operator to believe this person, to

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Speaker 1: believe that he's really making an effort to revive I've

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Speaker 1: heard that would be the normal thing to do. Even

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Speaker 1: though he's saying that it seems like she's not alive,

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Speaker 1: he keeps wanting to say Amy, Amy, and you like

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Speaker 1: he's doing the best against to see if he can

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Speaker 1: revive her. Well, Jackie Harward, I thought I had you

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Speaker 1: stumped because I went on Google to look up corn

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Speaker 1: rakes and I found one with about twelve prongs. Guess

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Speaker 1: what it's a It's not a corn rake, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a thatch rake. And it's Google's fault because he

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Speaker 1: came up under corn rake. Miss uh know it all, okay,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this. So what what happened that

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Speaker 1: she's not just her breathing? Was crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't get her out of the bar and the

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Speaker 1: doors are your own? Responding? Was the fork of a factor?

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Speaker 1: Has it invulmated? She was fired? We haven't over long time?

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Speaker 1: You had was just like a pitchfork cool the moon

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Speaker 1: dark corn fork. Right, it's like a sid water you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of got a curve war for gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm fired by my cursing and so its issue bleeding.

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Speaker 1: I can't go. I just when I had it, I

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Speaker 1: just she was played down and hold the pitching out

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Speaker 1: of her? Now? How old? How old? Show? Okay? She

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Speaker 1: did not responding. Okay, okay, Now did you hear that

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Speaker 1: to doctor Kendall Crown's medical examiner joining me out of Austin.

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Speaker 1: That's Travis County, Texas, doctor Kendall Crowns. He said she

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Speaker 1: was face down. Now I find that significant because if

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Speaker 1: you fall from an upper level, wouldn't you If it's

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Speaker 1: if you're impaled through your back, you could probably verbalize

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Speaker 1: this better than I can. But if you fall onto

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Speaker 1: it how could you get then face down if you

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Speaker 1: fell onto it? Because he definitely says it was an accident. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is very odd that she's face down. I would

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Speaker 1: think that if she fell onto it, she would remain

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Speaker 1: on her back. But there's also always the possibility that

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Speaker 1: she rolled, or if she fell from a height, that

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Speaker 1: she fell onto it and bounced. But again that's very unlikely. Well,

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Speaker 1: what did you just say she fell and bounced? If

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Speaker 1: she fell from an upper level impaled on it and

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Speaker 1: kind of bounced if you will, after she hit it,

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Speaker 1: And I find that really hard to believe, doctor Kendall Crowns.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you are the medical examiner. Bounce with a

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Speaker 1: corn breaking your back? There's always a possibility, okay, but

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Speaker 1: you know, as she will caught. We don't deal in possibilities.

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Speaker 1: We deal in probabilities and reasonable doubt beyond you know,

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Speaker 1: find the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to this asley. Do you feel comfortable doing PPR? I

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Speaker 1: can try. I'll try anything, Okay, I guess flat on

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Speaker 1: the are you hop to get her flat across the

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Speaker 1: maybe the seat, but she's paring on the trun Okay,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, when my post like foaming from the mouth.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to get lay flat. She's you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, she's laying her son flat. Well,

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Speaker 1: she got black. We're on the backs hoped to get on.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he can get on the floor of the truck

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Speaker 1: and she can get shaved to lay her across the seat,

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Speaker 1: so you can get her flat and we lay get

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Speaker 1: her on the seat. First of all, to Leavi Page

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Speaker 1: climb online dot Com investigative reporter, I don't recall you

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Speaker 1: telling me that the sun was there. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: the sun and as the mom actually lying in his lap,

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Speaker 1: the sun was thirteen years old, Nancy. And he is

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Speaker 1: the one that actually discovered his mother in the barn

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Speaker 1: with the corn rake inside of her. And he called

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Speaker 1: his dad and said, look what happened to mom. And

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Speaker 1: they put her into his vehicle, his truck and went

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Speaker 1: on the road. He called nine to one one. Then

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Speaker 1: they pulled over and that's when he started doing chess

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Speaker 1: compressions and then an ambulance actually came in met so

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Speaker 1: I guess they took the rake out to get her

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Speaker 1: into the car. Yes, he took the rake out because

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Speaker 1: he said that he could not get her out of

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Speaker 1: the barn with the rake still inside of her. Oh

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Speaker 1: my stars. To doctor Kendall Crown's medical examiner Austin, Texas,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, what does it mean if foam is coming

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Speaker 1: out of your mouth? Foam coming out of your mouth

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Speaker 1: is usually from pulmonary edema or your lungs filling up

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Speaker 1: with fluid with heart failure. We see that a lot

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Speaker 1: in drug overdoses and drownings. It could be if it

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Speaker 1: was bloody foam. It could be the fact that her

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Speaker 1: lungs were compromised by the corn rake and she was

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Speaker 1: hemorrhaging into her air and then it was coming out

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Speaker 1: of her mouth. Guys, this is a part of the

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Speaker 1: nine one one call that I find very very intriguing. Listen, okay,

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Speaker 1: keep doing the compressions until they can help you. Go over. Okay,

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Speaker 1: keep going, you're doing for day, Keep going. Come on, repond,

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Speaker 1: go on, come on, come on goal. Yeah, so there

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Speaker 1: you Okay, what do you mean? That's fine? Do you

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Speaker 1: want me to star anything? You want me to stand

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Speaker 1: the line or I can't talk to them? Okay? All right,

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Speaker 1: so very wet it? Okay, all right, guys, I hope

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Speaker 1: you all have twenty twenty hearing because Karen starts psychologists

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Speaker 1: out of Manhattan. I clearly heard him whisper horror as

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Speaker 1: he's allegedly doing CPR. I heard that, and I was

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Speaker 1: listening very carefully, and I heard it. I could not

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Speaker 1: hear it, Nancy, because there was a lot of background noise.

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Speaker 1: But I'm going to take you a word for it.

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Speaker 1: Let's listen to it again. Listen very carefully. Keep doing

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Speaker 1: the compressions until they can help you get over. Okay,

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Speaker 1: keep going you're doing, keep going on? Come on own? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so there was you, sir? Okay, good? What do you

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Speaker 1: mean that's tin? Do you want me to say anything

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Speaker 1: you want me? Kay? I can't talk to them? Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, so I'm gay. I get it? Okay, all right, okay?

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Speaker 1: Did am I the only one that herd that asked you? Willca?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear it? Yes? I think I did hear it.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard to tell. And let me just suggest

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Speaker 1: why why white thinking is not enough? James Shalnott, did

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Speaker 1: you hear it? Okay? So I've got one person on board,

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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns. Did you hear it? Yeah? I did? Okay,

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Speaker 1: Leavi page. Did you hear it? Yes, I've listened to

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Speaker 1: that like ten times and I picked up on it. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, you're the naysayer on the jury Ashley will kind.

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Speaker 1: I think I can turn Ashley because she says she

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Speaker 1: thinks she heard it. I think I can turn her around.

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Speaker 1: I totally heard it, and I'm not the only one.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Marie Hughes plain the partner. You're doing the

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Speaker 1: chess compressions, and I'm just gonna have that you listen

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Speaker 1: in between the chess compressions. Okay, John, did you just

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Speaker 1: hear that whisper at the end of that? Yes? And

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Speaker 1: what did you whisper? I couldn't hear it. Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. No, John, did you just hear that

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Speaker 1: whisper at the end of that? Yes? And what did

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Speaker 1: you whisper? I couldn't hear it? Okay, I'm gonna play

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Speaker 1: it again. Okay. So I'm not the only one, So

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Speaker 1: I'm not completely insane. So a guy, imagine this, hunched

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Speaker 1: over your body as you're dying and your husband calls

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Speaker 1: you a whore. Leavi Page Crime online dot Com investigator reporter,

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Speaker 1: what brought that on? Well, Nancy. Tom Mullins was actually

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Speaker 1: interviewed by investigators and he said that in twenty thirteen

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Speaker 1: that his wife had cheated on him, and that in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, during the summer, he had suspected that she

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Speaker 1: was having an affair after he had looked at his

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Speaker 1: cell phone bill and had read where she was exchanging

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Speaker 1: a lot of text messages with someone that worked on

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Speaker 1: his farm. Wow, somebody that he worked with every day.

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Speaker 1: To James shell Nutt, Atlanta Metcho, major case detective, retired

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Speaker 1: SWAT officer and lawyer, when he started looking, he saw

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Speaker 1: over a hundred text messages between the two of them

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Speaker 1: and just a couple of weeks. Now that I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it raised his suspicion. James Shellnutt absolutely ragious suspicions. You know,

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Speaker 1: it used to be that the personal fingerprint was the

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Speaker 1: gold standard of evidence, and it's still is very important nowadays,

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Speaker 1: more than anything in the society we live in. Your

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Speaker 1: electronic footprints such as cell phone bills, internet searches, things

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Speaker 1: that nature are critical to homicide. You know, we are

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Speaker 1: talking for those of you that just joined us about

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Speaker 1: the death of Amy Mollis, a thirty nine year old

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Speaker 1: wife and mom. She was killed by being impaled on

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Speaker 1: a corn rake in the family barn to doctor Kendall

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Speaker 1: Crown's medical examiner Austin, Doctor Crowns, again, tell me why

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Speaker 1: are you so convinced as his murder based on the

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Speaker 1: injuries alone? Well, again, with the corn rake having four prongs,

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Speaker 1: as we've established, there's six injuries, so that's two different strikes.

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Speaker 1: And then among those six injuries, four go one direction

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Speaker 1: and to go another direction. So it's two separate injuries,

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Speaker 1: separated in time, so you can't fall on it, get up,

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Speaker 1: take it out, and then fall on it again. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you'd have the worst luck ever if that was your

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Speaker 1: life to leave my page, investiget a reporter or crime

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Speaker 1: online dot com LEVI What if anything did her friends?

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Speaker 1: Amy Mullis's friends have to say so when they were

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Speaker 1: interviewed by law enforcement, they said that they had a

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Speaker 1: nickname for her and it was pot Pot and that

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Speaker 1: stood for Prisoner of Todd. They also said that she

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Speaker 1: wanted to get out of this marriage and that he

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Speaker 1: could also make her disappear if he found out that

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Speaker 1: she was having an affair. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friend at KAWWL this is Ashley Scott. According to court records,

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Speaker 1: Todd Mullis, his wife, Amy, and their thirteen ye old

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Speaker 1: son had been working on their family farm. Amy Mullis

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Speaker 1: had apparently briefly left the shed they had been working

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Speaker 1: in to grab a pet carrier. After noticing she had

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Speaker 1: been gone for a while, Todd Mullis sent their son

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Speaker 1: to check in on her. That is when their son

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Speaker 1: had discovered that his mom had been impaled by a

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Speaker 1: cornreak in her back. Her death was ruled as a

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Speaker 1: homicide the following December. Mullis claims his wife had been

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Speaker 1: experiencing spells due to a medication she was taking while

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Speaker 1: recovering from surgery. He also suggests that she may have

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Speaker 1: fallen into the cornwreak while working from a ladder. However,

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Speaker 1: evidence from the autopsy report shows that Amy had suffered

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Speaker 1: from six feel puncture wounds, even though the cornreak only

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Speaker 1: had four prompts. According to a police investigation, Todd Mullis

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Speaker 1: had recently learned that his wife had had multiple affairs

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Speaker 1: throughout the course of their marriage. Wait a minute, Levine, page,

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Speaker 1: you only told me about one affair. I told you

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Speaker 1: about the other one that he had in twenty thirteen. Well,

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Speaker 1: I thought that was the same person, two different ones. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, I don't like that preachy, judgy tone in

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Speaker 1: your voice. By the way, Levin Page not judging. And

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Speaker 1: Nancy also wanted to mention that the medical examiner had

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Speaker 1: also discovered defensive wounds on her hands. She had cuts

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Speaker 1: and bruises on her hands, and that's also what made

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Speaker 1: him charge this as made him determine that this was

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Speaker 1: a homicide. But wait a minute, to doctor Kendall, Crown's

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Speaker 1: medical examiner Austin, she works on a farm. How do

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Speaker 1: I know those are defensive wounds? Well, usually sensive wounds

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Speaker 1: are in certain locations like the back of four arms,

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Speaker 1: back of hands, and even in front of hands, and

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Speaker 1: in areas that you would wouldn't necessarily injure while you

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Speaker 1: were working. Suck in their shapes. You can make the

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Speaker 1: decision whether they're defensive or not, you know. James Shelnut

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta Metro Major Case retired. I recall prosecuting a

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Speaker 1: millionaire from the murder of his wife and they're home

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Speaker 1: caught on fire. He was found by fire department and

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Speaker 1: the yard across the street lounging romanesque, and they talked

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Speaker 1: to him for two or three minutes before he said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my wife's in there. So they got her out. She

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Speaker 1: was still alive but unconscious. She had bruises to her knees,

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Speaker 1: and I recall the medical examiner said that also could

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Speaker 1: be defensive wounds where you curl up in a ball

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Speaker 1: when you're being beaten. James Shellnutt Absolutely, yeah, you would

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Speaker 1: expect that, And you know that's part of the totality

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Speaker 1: of certainly what you look at as an investigator. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're going to do a couple of things, and just

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Speaker 1: I want to put this in perspective as to what

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Speaker 1: this situation looks like. When this guy gets to the hospital,

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Speaker 1: hospital likely has a protocol where they're gonna call law enforcement.

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Speaker 1: They're going to come out, Investigators going to come out,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to take the statement of Todd Mullis,

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Speaker 1: and then one of the investigators is going to take charges.

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Speaker 1: I hey, let's preserve this evidence. We have a lady

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Speaker 1: strut down the prime of her life. This is something

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Speaker 1: we need to make sure is an accident or confirm

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Speaker 1: whether or not as a homicides. So you're going to

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Speaker 1: preserve her body as evidence. You're gonna be getting a

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Speaker 1: search points to do that, and you're gonna go out

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Speaker 1: to the scene of where this happened, and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: look at a couple of things. You're gonna look at

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Speaker 1: what statements Todd Mullis made at the hospital. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: look at the crime scene. You're gonna try to discover

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Speaker 1: and locate this corn fort to make sure that that

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Speaker 1: it's preserved, because you're gonna need people like what we've

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Speaker 1: got on a panel here at the medical examiners to

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Speaker 1: look at that and match up the injuries. And you're

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Speaker 1: gonna look at motive if you're gonna look at electronic footprints,

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Speaker 1: so you know, in this case, looking at motive, you

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Speaker 1: know three of the most common motives that are out

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Speaker 1: there's you know, Nancy, your money, sex and revenge. And

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Speaker 1: this has got all three of you well put well

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Speaker 1: put now, I see why you're also a lawyer, you know.

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Speaker 1: Aside from the injuries themselves, there is also the issue

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Speaker 1: of her feeling threatened during the marriage, for instance, according

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Speaker 1: to her friends. And this is really hard to get

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Speaker 1: into court, to get into evidence. If you want it

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Speaker 1: in evidence because it's hearsay and there's really no way

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Speaker 1: to corroborate it. You know, the hearsay rule has many,

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Speaker 1: many exceptions around thirty for instance, I'm dying declaration. If

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Speaker 1: someone says something and at the moment they're dying, that

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Speaker 1: can be allowed in. There are a lot of hearsay exceptions. This, however,

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Speaker 1: is most likely not going to be one, and it

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Speaker 1: is that she felt that he would quote make her

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Speaker 1: disappear if he ever found out about the affair, as

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Speaker 1: she Wilcot judge and trial lawyer anchor at Court TV.

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Speaker 1: How many times have you heard that? Oh exactly? And

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Speaker 1: guess what motive? Juries like to hear a motive behind

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Speaker 1: what's happened, and there it is, you know. To Karen Start,

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Speaker 1: psychologist at Karen Start dot com joining SUDA Manhattan, Karen,

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Speaker 1: there have been so many times I've had a domestic

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Speaker 1: homicide and the woman's almost always a female victim, although

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Speaker 1: there are male victims of domestic homicide very few and

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Speaker 1: far between, but so often I would say, well over

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Speaker 1: fifty percent of the time, the victim has told somebody, family, neighbor,

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Speaker 1: friend's sister. You know, if anything ever happens to me,

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Speaker 1: he did it, or they've had an emergency key somewhere

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Speaker 1: to get into somebody else's home. The case I was

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Speaker 1: talking about earlier, the victim Pat had given her best friend,

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Speaker 1: both of them were piano teachers a key. The best

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Speaker 1: friend had given Pat a key so Pat could get

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Speaker 1: into her home if there was an emergency with her husband.

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Speaker 1: She was that afraid of him. Same thing here, Karen Stark,

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Speaker 1: And typically that evidence does not come into court. But

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Speaker 1: I find it very very significant, Karen. I agree with you, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. We're really close. I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard you say anything like that. I don't say anything

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Speaker 1: like that. It really is the woman understands that she's

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Speaker 1: in this situation that's very frightening, and unfortunately doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: like she has the power to leave. She's being that controlled,

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Speaker 1: she feels that dependent on the person. But indistinctively she

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Speaker 1: knows something is really wrong. Maybe she's being beaten behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes or threatened, and is letting somebody know if

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Speaker 1: it ever happened. He didn't Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: You know, why is it that people have to go online?

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Speaker 1: Has nobody ever listened to crime stories before, don't they know?

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Speaker 1: Didn't anybody watch the top Mom trial Casey Anthony where

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Speaker 1: she did searches for how to create homemade chloroform? Anyway,

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Speaker 1: isn't it true to leave my page that there were

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Speaker 1: some damning searches on his iPad? Yes? And this iPad

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Speaker 1: was linked to his Gmail account, and the searches were

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Speaker 1: killing unfaithful women. And the other search was what happened

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Speaker 1: to cheating spouses in historic Aztec tribes? Okay, you know what,

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Speaker 1: he is a nut and unfortunately going to go to

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Speaker 1: ask you Wilcot on that, then to our bona fide shrink,

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, ask you Wilcott. Did he just say what

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00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: happened to cheating women in Aztec culture? Yeah? He sure did.

421
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: So Listen. You know again, when you have somebody who's

422
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: performing those kinds of searches on their computer, there's no

423
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: such thing as quinctance in my mind when it comes

424
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: to criminal crimes. So is it coincidental that, oh, he

425
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: happened to be looking this up innocently? No? I don't

426
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: believe that it is. The Internet history included searches on

427
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: infidelity historic punishment for cheating spouses. I ate the Aztec

428
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: culture a weirdo. Okay. Not only that, Not only that,

429
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: he researched the placement of organs in the body. Okay,

430
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: to doctor Kendall Crowns, that's bad. That always is when

431
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: they're talking about doing something to organs, trying to figure

432
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: out where the organs are ad in the body and

433
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: what's the significance of that, doctor Crowns, Well, you're trying

434
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: to figure out where what's the best area to hit

435
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: to kill the person the easiest. So you know, of

436
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: course chest is always going to be your number one

437
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: go too. You know, the only time I've looked at

438
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: where are organs in the body is when John David's

439
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: stomach was hurting. I thought maybe he had appendicitist. He didn't.

440
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: His search history started wait bat years before it goes

441
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: up to four days before Amy is murdered. Topics like

442
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: quote was killing more accepted centuries ago? Quote, characteristics of

443
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: cheating women? Quote? Did ancient US kill adulterers? As Levi

444
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: Pace pointed out, the thrill of the kill and once

445
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: you hunt man, you will always feel the thirst or

446
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: I would want to divorce right there if I heard

447
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: all of that. Not only that, he also looked at

448
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: designing wedding rings and bridle shops. That's a complete dichotomy

449
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: that doesn't even make sense to kire and start. What

450
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: do you make of his Google searches? Well, Nancy, he

451
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: obviously was thinking that he was going to be justified

452
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: in killing her because the way that I'm trying to

453
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: imagine his mind was working, he felt like an ancient

454
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: times maybe you know, he would have been entitled to

455
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: kill her in some fashion because she was unfaithful. And

456
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: if you take a look at everything that he's been

457
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: searching for, it's very clear that something is going to happen.

458
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: Then he's going to also tell himself that he's justified

459
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: that she deserves to have this happen because she's a

460
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: cheating spout. To James shell Nutt lawyer Atlanta Metch, a

461
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: major case detective swat officer retires, James, how do you

462
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: go about calling that evidence out of an iPad in

463
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: this case? Well, first of all, there's gonna be a

464
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: forensic dump of all the data in this case. You know,

465
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: you're going to have your specialists take a look, download everything,

466
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: search this computer. They're going to go back and issue

467
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: subpoenas to internet providers. They're going to go back and

468
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: take a look at all the electronic footprints out there,

469
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: and they're going to confiscate that. There's programs that you

470
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: can run this data through the look for certain key identifiers.

471
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: To mind the data is what it's called, and those

472
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: are the common ways that you're going to get that

473
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: data out. And a very lengthy criminal complaint. Cops laid

474
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: out a case against Todd Mullus, witnesses describing him as

475
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: controlling and jealous. Now, how does controlling play into this

476
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: care and start you're the psychologist. Controlling is Nancy very

477
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: clearly somebody who was paranoid, who constantly thinks that something

478
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: is going on. And absolutely I'm thinking in this case

479
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: that the more he was trying to control her, the

480
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: more that she was being subtly behind his back, trying

481
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: to be with other people looking for ways that we're

482
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: indirect to give herself some freedom, unfortunately not leaving. But

483
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: this was a very insecure man who could not let

484
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: her be. The medical examiner there in the jurisdiction noted

485
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: the corn Right I only had four times, as Jackie

486
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: Howard has pointed out, our expert, but that her body

487
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: had six punc true wounds from different angles. That's the kicker.

488
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: To doctor Kendall, Crown's medical examiner Austin, what would she

489
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: have gone through in death? So what would have happened

490
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: is the times would have punctured through her skin through

491
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: a muscular chure into her organs depending on what's hit.

492
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: She wouldn't have died instantly, She would have hemorrhaged internally.

493
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 1: Would have taken several minutes for her to bleed out

494
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: as she's laying there with the corn raake stuck in

495
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: her body. So you would have had the pain of

496
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: bad and then the slow lingering death from exanguination or

497
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: bleeding out. And you know that must be a horrible,

498
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: horrible death. And you see your husband over you calling

499
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: you a whore at the time your life is draining

500
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: out of your body. We've been talking about an alleged

501
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: sex relationship on her part, Amy's part, but I think

502
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 1: it was a lot more than that, because a warning

503
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: to Amy Mullis's stepmother, Todd Mullis, the husband said quote

504
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to lose the farm over this. Amy

505
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 1: Mullis allegedly telling her friend she get two million dollars

506
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: and half the farm? Is she were to leave? Todd Mullis,

507
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: James shell Nutt you said the motives for murder were,

508
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: let's see sex revenge. Did you say money, money, sex revenge.

509
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: I mean you see it over and over, Nancy, as

510
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 1: you have when you prosecuted those cases. I mean two

511
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: million dollars and half the farm. It was all about

512
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: the farm? Is that ringing a bell? Asked Wilcott. Remember

513
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 1: other cases where husbands didn't want to lose half of everything,

514
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: such as Chris Watts, such as in the Kelsey Barreth case.

515
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: They weren't married, but they had a child together. He

516
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: was a farmer. If they broke up, she could go

517
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: after him from money and child support. I mean, it's

518
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: a common theme, Ashley. I will never understand it why

519
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: individuals resort to these types of heinous murder crime activities

520
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: instead of just dealing with it and losing half of

521
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: whatever it is and go through a normal divorce. But

522
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: this is one of the motives that we see again

523
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: and again, and not just by men and relationships, but

524
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: also by women. You know, to you here and start psychologists,

525
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: how many times have we said why not just get

526
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: a divorce. Well, because it takes a certain personality, Nancy,

527
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: because we do say that. But in these cases, you're

528
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: talking about people who will not have a problem killing

529
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: somebody else. They're psychopaths, right. So look at the way

530
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: he killed her, and she, as we were just told,

531
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: did not die instantly. Here's a man who was enjoying

532
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: making this woman suffer. He was getting a kick out

533
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: of what he was doing, and that is not your

534
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: average First in the end LEAVI page, the case goes

535
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: to trial. What was the defense? The defense, Nancy actually changed.

536
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: He accidentally failed because she had had outpatient surgery recently,

537
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 1: was on medication and was dizzy. However, the defense, when

538
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: presented with the medical examiner report that this was a homicide,

539
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: that there was defensive wounds, that there were several puncture wounds,

540
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: the defense said that someone else that worked on the

541
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: farm did this. Well, I understand that Tristan, the little son,

542
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: the thirteen year old boy, took the stand. What was

543
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: his testimony. He testified about discovering his mother's body and

544
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: the anxiety that that put him through. Nancy and the

545
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: prosecution in their opening statements, they were very powerful. She

546
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: hit home the fact that he knew that his wife

547
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: was in there with the rake in her, and that

548
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: he sent his teenage son in there to find her

549
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: knowing that she had a rake in there. And she

550
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: talked about how evil it is to send your own

551
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: son in there to discover his mother with a rake

552
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: in her, and such a horrific scene. In the end,

553
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: husband Todd mullis convicted, as she wilcot, what's the possible sentence?

554
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: All right? So first degree murder is the charge that

555
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: he faces, and the possible sentence in this case his

556
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,959
Speaker 1: life without parole. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace

557
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,479
Speaker 1: crime story, signing off goodbye friend,