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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of the Mark Moa

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Speaker 1: Show where we are talking about bitcoin. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the decentralized revolution that's happening right now before our very eyes.

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Speaker 1: What an exciting time to be alive. It is literally

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Speaker 1: changing the course of humanity. It's that big um. But

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Speaker 1: to understand just how big it is, and to understand

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Speaker 1: how big of an impact it can make on the humanity,

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Speaker 1: you kind of have to understand the past as well.

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Speaker 1: I'm joining the studio today with Lawrence Lepard. You can

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Speaker 1: find him on Twitter at Lawrence Lepard l E P

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Speaker 1: A R D. And Uh. Lawrence is uh, he's still

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Speaker 1: kind of part way in the old way and a

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Speaker 1: little bit in the new way, but he's he's got

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Speaker 1: a very interesting take on some of this monetary history.

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Speaker 1: So Lawrence, thanks so much for jumping in. Oh, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me on Market Lover's show. Nice to join you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks man. Thanks. Uh you know, uh, my, my my

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Speaker 1: story not that I'm going here to tell my story,

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Speaker 1: but my story is that I made a bunch of money.

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Speaker 1: I was really good at business. I had sold a

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Speaker 1: couple of businesses I invested through the dot com boom.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and one, I started e commerce business

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Speaker 1: at the at the bottom of the crash. People laughed

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Speaker 1: at me, told me that nobody would buy stuff online. Um,

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Speaker 1: had some exits, did really good, invested in real estate.

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Speaker 1: Two thousand and eight got wiped out and I had

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Speaker 1: to dig out of I had to dig out of

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Speaker 1: a hole. And so I was like, dang, like, what

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Speaker 1: the heck. I'm good at making money, but um, what

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Speaker 1: the heck is this whole financial casino thing going on

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Speaker 1: that I don't know anything about. And so I started

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Speaker 1: I started digging in, and uh, I learned about you know,

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Speaker 1: via currency. And let's just say that I became a

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Speaker 1: gold bug. So you know, Mike Maloney and Peter Schiff

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Speaker 1: and those guys, and I jumped in that it became

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Speaker 1: a gold bug. Was like, well, the problem is that

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Speaker 1: you have money system and we need to sound money,

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Speaker 1: like like gold that you know, keeps the government on

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Speaker 1: a budget and so forth. And so I kind of

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Speaker 1: became this gold bug. Um. Where I realized today is

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Speaker 1: that I'm just a sound money advocate, Right, That's really

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Speaker 1: what I'm for. I'm for sound money. Um, but I

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Speaker 1: think you're still kind of uh, you're a sound money advocate.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing right, and I'm definitely sound money advocate for sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so tell me about that. Yeah, well so, I you know, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm dragging around some gold baggage, some some boomer bars.

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Speaker 1: They say a lot of something that guys are going bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: and I can certainly have appreciate that. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: you know, I think bitcoin will become a better form

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Speaker 1: of sound money than golder already is in some respects,

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Speaker 1: but they're slightly different. I mean, I I view, you know,

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Speaker 1: gold is analog sound money. Bitcoin is digital sound money,

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Speaker 1: and with positive and negatives to both. Um and you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been in the sound money came for a while.

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Speaker 1: My story is similar to yours. I participated in the

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Speaker 1: dot com boom did great. I was a venture of

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Speaker 1: capitals before that, all the technology stuff, and it all

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Speaker 1: worked out great. And I was like you I was

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Speaker 1: kind of in a uh GF done okay, and I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of with semi retiring or just investing my money

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Speaker 1: and coaching my kids sports teams. And then two thousand

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Speaker 1: eight hit. I didn't get wiped out, but I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, this is a big deal. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna print until the cows come home. And I've

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Speaker 1: got all these savings that I thought would keep me,

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Speaker 1: you know, in good shape for the rest of my life,

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Speaker 1: and they may not because if they if they inflated enough,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe the money I have won't be enough.

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Speaker 1: And so I did a deep I was a gold

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Speaker 1: bud before that, but I really went deep into it,

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Speaker 1: and oh it started picking up the miners and the

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Speaker 1: gold and silver miners because my view was it was

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Speaker 1: the way to protect oneself again monetary debasement, which was

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Speaker 1: really you know, a huge, huge issue and manifest post

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Speaker 1: two thousand eight. And so I've I've run this fund

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Speaker 1: that I've got that's gold, gold and silver mining company

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Speaker 1: since I wait. Um, I believe very strongly in sound money.

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Speaker 1: UM I saw a bitcoin coming along. I never bought it.

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Speaker 1: Before coin Base got opened up. I was and the

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Speaker 1: process opening monk Ox account when they failed. Think goodness,

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Speaker 1: that didn't happen. And uh and uh, I've slowly but

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Speaker 1: surely come to see all the benefits of bitcoin. And

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Speaker 1: now it's a big part of my personal account and

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Speaker 1: it's a big part of what we do with the fund.

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Speaker 1: But I haven't a band of the gold. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: the sailors of the world are like, well, gold is

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Speaker 1: just dead, you know, get out of it, sell it now.

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Speaker 1: It's going down. And I don't think that's true. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's Um, it's older, it's it's probably not

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Speaker 1: as dynamic as bitcoin because it doesn't have an adoption

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Speaker 1: curve going on, but it's not going away anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: And uh, if you want sound money, you know, they

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Speaker 1: both serve a purpose. Gold is less volatible. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: gold is off the grid. Um. You know, there is

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Speaker 1: a bitcoin record of what you've done in bitcoin, and um,

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Speaker 1: gold doesn't recur, doesn't require recurring electrical energy to keep

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Speaker 1: it going. It's just is what it is. The money

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Speaker 1: was spent up front. So um, which is not to

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, bitcoin is not a better choice

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Speaker 1: if you want optionality and if you want asymmetry, which

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Speaker 1: I think it is. So so I got a foot

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Speaker 1: in both camps. You're right, yeah, Um, so we have

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Speaker 1: in the bitcoin space. One of the biggest gold gold

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Speaker 1: bulls will call it that Peter shift. He's he seemed

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Speaker 1: to make and and and it's it's a shame because

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Speaker 1: like I think I said, you know, Peter Schiff was

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Speaker 1: very instrumental in my kind of development becoming a sound

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Speaker 1: money advocate. Um. And I mean he's he's a he's

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Speaker 1: a great Austrian economist. I mean, he gets the markets. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's he's going to be the broken clock

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Speaker 1: that's going to be eventually right one day. I guess

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Speaker 1: you know, he's been pounding the same table for a

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Speaker 1: for a decade. Um. But he's almost I think he's

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Speaker 1: kind of made this career out of just banging on

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Speaker 1: bitcoin now and that's kind of like his possible but

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Speaker 1: it's a marketing ploy mark from how I see it.

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Speaker 1: I think the other possibility that's going on is he

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Speaker 1: just making And I have friends who are gold bugs

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Speaker 1: that that are making the same error. They really have

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Speaker 1: a hard time getting around the physicality of it all.

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Speaker 1: You know. They're like, if you can't touch it, it's

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Speaker 1: not real, you know. Um. And you know, money throughout

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Speaker 1: history has typically been most moneys have been physically touchable,

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Speaker 1: you know, gold, silver, you know when it was cattle

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Speaker 1: or grain. Um. But you know, if you go up

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Speaker 1: one layer, what I think you see is that money

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Speaker 1: is really a ledger. The money is just keeping score.

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Speaker 1: And so even before we had gold or beads or

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Speaker 1: whatever they used for money. You know, guys who were

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Speaker 1: living in groups, you know, would say, okay, look I

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Speaker 1: killed two bites in this week. You killed one, you

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Speaker 1: owe me one. You know, we all eight of them together,

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Speaker 1: and it's just money is a way to keep score.

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Speaker 1: Who's got what, who knows what, who knows who what?

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Speaker 1: And so it's a ledger. And the problem with the

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Speaker 1: reason there was no you know, sound money ledger before

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Speaker 1: bitcoin is nobody had solved the you know the problem

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Speaker 1: of double spending and you know, making it immutable, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, the cetoce and I think Setocia is

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people. The guy's opining and those guys

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Speaker 1: who came along and developed it. It makes all the

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Speaker 1: problem and it's a huge innovation in my opinion. That's

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Speaker 1: a good point that I hadn't really thought of specifically

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Speaker 1: the way that you laid that out, which is, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we've always had physical money, which of course because

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Speaker 1: we've always lived in a physical world. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: digital world is is something new obviously, right, Um, And

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Speaker 1: so obviously before the digital world everything was physical. We

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Speaker 1: had to listen to music, and there was a there

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Speaker 1: was a there was a vinyl LB or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: then it was a cassette and etcetera. But today money

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Speaker 1: is digital. I'm sorry, music is digital, and so of

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Speaker 1: course everything was physical. But I like that that point

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Speaker 1: that you had said right there, which is though even

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Speaker 1: in a physical world, it wasn't physical because it was

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Speaker 1: on ledgers. And that was exactly right. So even at

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Speaker 1: that point, people were still trading invisible digital money credits.

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Speaker 1: I guess, well, your bank account is uh is a ledger?

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Speaker 1: You know, they don't. You're back to essentially have the dollars.

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Speaker 1: But you open up your bank account online, you can

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Speaker 1: see how many dollars are there, and that just represents

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Speaker 1: the underlying dollars behind it, you know, And so it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's not that far a leap, but some people

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Speaker 1: just can't make it. They don't they don't quite get it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I mean, look, there's there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of other noise that's hurt Bitcoin. I think all

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Speaker 1: the coins and the you know, the promotion or you know,

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Speaker 1: around them. I mean, you know, how I have friends

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Speaker 1: who said, how can I take this seriously? When dose

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Speaker 1: coin comes out and goes up a million percent. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's a joke. These things are

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Speaker 1: a joke. They're complete fraud. And I understand that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are frauds around the area, but that's not to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's all the noise. The signal is bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: which is an immutable ledger, right, yeah, And and and

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Speaker 1: the same is true in any industry. So obviously there's

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Speaker 1: an entire sector of penny stocks, which are there's an

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Speaker 1: entire sector of penny stocks that are companies that will

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Speaker 1: probably never amount to anything, and they're all pump on

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Speaker 1: dumps as well. Um, you know, in the in the

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Speaker 1: gold mining space, for example, a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of those junior those explorers there there, they have good

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Speaker 1: promoters and they'll probably never be anything. But it doesn't

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Speaker 1: take away from the big you know, uh legit miners either, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I think there's always going to be that. Um.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I get that as well. I think,

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Speaker 1: um one thing that he said was he said that

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Speaker 1: actually we'll come back to that in a minute, but

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Speaker 1: I think I think that's a good point. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of people think that you have this ever expanding

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Speaker 1: market and then there's fraud or their scams in there,

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Speaker 1: and that somehow takes away from it. Almost like if

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Speaker 1: you have all these counterfeit Mona Lisa's and that somehow

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Speaker 1: takes away from the legit Mona Lisa. I guess, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't make any sense. Um, you're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Mark Mos Show. We're talking about bitcoin. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the Decentralized Revolution, cryptocurrencies. I'm in the studio with Lawrence Lapard.

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Speaker 1: You can find him on Twitter at Lawrence Lapard L E.

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Speaker 1: P A R D. Of course I'm one Mark Moss

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. If you if you're on there, give us

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Speaker 1: a question, to give us shout out and say you

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Speaker 1: heard us on the radio. We'd love to hear that.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about bitcoin and we're comparing it to really

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Speaker 1: sound money, and um, how both of us have been

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Speaker 1: kind of been in the sound money camp, which was

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Speaker 1: originally um bitcoin I'm sorry, was originally gold, but now

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Speaker 1: bitcoin is kind of filling that. Um. But I think

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Speaker 1: if you can understand a little bit of monetary history

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Speaker 1: and understand the reason why we need sound money in

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Speaker 1: the first place, I think that can open it up

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Speaker 1: for you. So a lot of times people don't understand

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Speaker 1: bitcoin because they don't understand the need for sound money.

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Speaker 1: So I want to dig into that some of this

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Speaker 1: monetary history with Lawrence. When we come back, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about some of these comments that Peter Schiff made

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Speaker 1: about UM maybe bitcoin kind of being this ponzi and

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Speaker 1: why we need sound money. So don't go away when

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Speaker 1: we are back. All right, welcome back. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: the Mark Moa Show. We're talking about bitcoin, We're talking

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Speaker 1: about the decentralized Revolution, and right now we are talking

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Speaker 1: about sound money. One of the things that I like

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Speaker 1: talking about with bitcoin is why why do we need bitcoin?

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Speaker 1: And the reason why we need bitcoin is because we

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Speaker 1: need sound money. And we're in the studio today with

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Speaker 1: Lawrence Lepard he is talking about that with us UM. So,

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Speaker 1: Lawrence UM going back to UM the need for sound

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Speaker 1: money kind of give us a little bit of this

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Speaker 1: overall kind of monetary history you talked about UM in

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Speaker 1: in two thousand eight. You realize that they're going to

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Speaker 1: debase or devalue the currency by printing more that you

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Speaker 1: were you had concern or cause or scare because of

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Speaker 1: the money that you had saved up um, and it

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Speaker 1: was being debased. Explain how that works and kind of

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Speaker 1: what your challenge was there, Sure, Mark, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: you know, so I don't think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: know the monetary history of the world, of the monitory

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Speaker 1: history of the FED in the United States. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the United States was found in seventeen eighty nine, and

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Speaker 1: it was written into the Constitution that olden gold and

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Speaker 1: silver could be sound money. Um. And the reason for

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Speaker 1: that is that the Continental which they had used to

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Speaker 1: finance the war failed and they had we had hyper

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Speaker 1: inflation here in this country before we had the Constitution passed,

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Speaker 1: and that pretty much you know, cemented gold and silver

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Speaker 1: is really the only forms of money that we're used

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Speaker 1: in this country from seventeen eighty nine into the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, um. And and you know, the banking was

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Speaker 1: unregulated as well. Um. And then we kind of began

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Speaker 1: to drift away from that in nineteen thirteen when the

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Speaker 1: Federal Reserve got created, and um, the a reserve. You know,

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Speaker 1: we stayed on the gold standard, but the Federal Reserve

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Speaker 1: had the ability to create additional claims against the money

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Speaker 1: in the form of leverage. I mean, they became a

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Speaker 1: bank of last resort. And you know, there are two

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Speaker 1: forms of sound money. There's gold, but there's also credit

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Speaker 1: and paper money issued against the gold. And the Fed

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Speaker 1: had the power, got the power to be the banker

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Speaker 1: of less resort to prevent panics and crashes. And so

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Speaker 1: that began the monetary expansion in the United States, and

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Speaker 1: of course it started at a modest level. They were

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Speaker 1: only supposed to lend money against good credit for short

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Speaker 1: periods of time at high interest rates to kind of

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Speaker 1: prevent bank collapses, because they've had a few of those

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Speaker 1: in and of course they immediately broke the charter right

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Speaker 1: and they went out in finance World War One and

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Speaker 1: then and then after that it kind of slowly devolved

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Speaker 1: from there where you know, Roosevelt confiscated the gold in

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Speaker 1: thirty three, and then he repriced it in thirty four,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we slowly but surely, but but

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Speaker 1: Breton Woods came along. We reset the dollar to be

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Speaker 1: kind of the standard, but the dollar was based upon

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Speaker 1: a fixed rate of goal. So so we more or

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Speaker 1: less had semi sound money, albeit with a big credit

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Speaker 1: overlay from the Federal Reserve. Up until nine nine seventy

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Speaker 1: one was just a cataclysmic event, you know, Nixon temporarily

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Speaker 1: interesting that you should use that word. Of course, it

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Speaker 1: has never changed. In nineteen seventy one took the United

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Speaker 1: States off the gold standard, as we all know, in

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Speaker 1: August fifteen, and and that was really the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the money printing error. So at that point in time,

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Speaker 1: gold was valued at thirty five thou dollars nouns thirty

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Speaker 1: five dollars mounts. Yeah, that was a Freudian slip. It

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Speaker 1: should be at thirty five to that um. And so

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Speaker 1: they gained the ability to print money when we went

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Speaker 1: off the gold standard because dollars could be created that

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Speaker 1: we're not backed by gold. And that ability has only

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Speaker 1: increased as time has gone by. And you can see

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Speaker 1: this in the growth of the Federals are balance Sheetcause

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Speaker 1: the Federals are balance sheet. The liabilities reflect the money

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Speaker 1: that's in circulation. And you see the Federals are balance

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Speaker 1: sheet has grown from you know, pre uh you know,

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Speaker 1: pre the crisis, it was huddered billion dollars, you know,

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Speaker 1: and now it's approaching what eight nine trillion dollars, so

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Speaker 1: it's eight trilling to assume be nine. Uh So the

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Speaker 1: point is that they have printed enormous amounts of money.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the go to solution of politicians is

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Speaker 1: to say, when they've got a crisis, they've got a hold,

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Speaker 1: they've got to fill some financial institution is failing, or

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Speaker 1: the economy is not doing well. They print money. They

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Speaker 1: literally print money. And you know this is not a

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Speaker 1: hidden fact. I mean, Bernakey tried to hide it, but

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Speaker 1: were recently J Paul in a sixty minutes every said, yes,

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Speaker 1: we print the money. We do what is necessary to

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Speaker 1: add to the money supply. And of course the notion

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Speaker 1: they've been able to get away with it because you know,

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Speaker 1: we've been in a deflationary period, interest rates haven't gone high,

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Speaker 1: and the economy has been growing. But they're now at

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Speaker 1: the point where they've really, in our opinion, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: they were kind of reached the endgame, and people see

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Speaker 1: what they're doing. The amount they have to print is

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Speaker 1: getting so large and so excessive that you know, as

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Speaker 1: anyone would know that. You know, like when you're playing monopoly,

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Speaker 1: if you create a lot of money, you know, sure

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Speaker 1: the value of all the properties goes up, but no

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Speaker 1: real value has been created in that printing and that's

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Speaker 1: what I mean when I talk about monetary debasement. And

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Speaker 1: so it's been a hundred years of monetary debasement, but

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Speaker 1: with a real acceleration since oh eight. Yeah. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: listening to the Mark Moa show. We're talking about bitcoin

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Speaker 1: and the decentralized revolution. In the studio with Lawrence Lepard.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about um, the FED and creating all this

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Speaker 1: money in this monetary debasement. I think one key piece

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Speaker 1: that you said there. I mean a lot of good

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Speaker 1: stuff obviously, but the piece that people are starting to

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Speaker 1: pay attention. And so a couple of years ago, nobody

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Speaker 1: used the word fiat, nobody knew it right, and today

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Speaker 1: it's just like being thrown around everywhere. Right now we're seeing,

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Speaker 1: you know, um Tucker Carlson, you know, the most watching

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Speaker 1: show on TV now talking about these issues, right, and

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Speaker 1: so people are waking up to it. And actually he

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Speaker 1: was Meets has talked about in the in the Crack

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Speaker 1: Up Boom. He said, whenever you have a credit montery

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Speaker 1: expansion that leads to an expansion of the economy, um,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna start to lead to all types of distortion

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Speaker 1: in the market, labor, etcetera. And he said, suddenly the

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Speaker 1: people wake up, they realize that inflation is both persistent

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Speaker 1: and intentional. And that's exactly what happening. People are waking

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Speaker 1: up to it. They realize it. Well, you know the yeah,

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Speaker 1: they just have to mark. I mean, you know, look

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Speaker 1: at the cost of healthcare, look at the cost of

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Speaker 1: college education, look at the cost of gasoline, look at

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Speaker 1: the cost of everything. It's just going up so rapidly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've got people who have zero interest in

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Speaker 1: monetary things asking me questions now because they know that's

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Speaker 1: my area that you know, why are the prices going

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Speaker 1: up so quickly? And everything? It just becomes very obvious.

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Speaker 1: It's very painful. I mean, imagine living on a fixed

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Speaker 1: income and suddenly you can't buy as much. Your money

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Speaker 1: just doesn't go as far. And so, yes, you're right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's the awareness is there. And this is

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Speaker 1: the beginning of what we call Gresham's law, which says

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Speaker 1: that once people begin to realize that the money is

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Speaker 1: losing value their savings, they try to put their savings

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Speaker 1: into things which will maintain their value. And the traditional one,

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Speaker 1: of course, would be golden or silver, but the earlier

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Speaker 1: one is bitcoin and One of the things I think

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Speaker 1: is beautiful about bitcoin is that you Know, Safety in book,

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Speaker 1: which I think is one of the best books written

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Speaker 1: in the last fifteen years. You know, the Bitcoin Standard

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Speaker 1: has basically educated an entire generational millennials in Austrian economics. Right.

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Speaker 1: I mean I used to say Austrian economics ten fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago. People look at me like, what the hell

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Speaker 1: are you talking about? You know, and I mean here

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Speaker 1: you are quoting about mesas, right, I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: just it's it's just a c change for us in

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Speaker 1: the sound money world, right, things are really changing. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a great book. Thanks for bringing that up. So everybody,

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Speaker 1: if you're listening, you should check out that book, The

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin Standard by Safety. Um. What I love about that

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Speaker 1: book is that it really takes you all the way

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Speaker 1: through all of monetary history. So you go through monetary

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Speaker 1: history to understand what money is, the history of money,

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Speaker 1: then you understand the gold standard. Um, so it catches

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Speaker 1: you up on all that history, which you're a big

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Speaker 1: fan of. I'm a big fan of as well. I

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Speaker 1: think it's important to know that. And then they transition

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Speaker 1: into Okay, now that you have that educational foundation, now

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Speaker 1: it's transition into bitcoin. Um, and so it's a it's

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Speaker 1: an amazing book. Uh. I think it's it's definitely a

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Speaker 1: must read. Uh to the point, to the point the world.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, Yes, it's changed the world. And it's like,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, I'm like encouraged by the amount of

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Speaker 1: people that are waking up and reading it. To your point,

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Speaker 1: all these millials that I've read it, and and the

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Speaker 1: the overwhelming demand for podcasts and YouTube and videos and

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Speaker 1: stuff where people are waking up, and then and then

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Speaker 1: it's half the world seems to still be sleepwalking. So

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Speaker 1: it's like, uh, we're kind of getting divided there. Um,

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Speaker 1: you're listening to the Mark Moa show. We're talking about bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the decentralized revolution that is happening right now.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about specifically in the studio today with Lawrence Lepard,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about why why bitcoin? I like to I

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Speaker 1: like to focus on that, not what the price of

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Speaker 1: bitcoin is. The price is the least important part in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, But why why do we need it? Why

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Speaker 1: is it important? Why can it fix things? Why can

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Speaker 1: it change things? And that's what we're talking about. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about um gold, we're talking about sound money, UM,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking a little bit about history. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't read the Bitcoin Standard, go get that book right now.

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Speaker 1: Make put it on your reading list for sure. And

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Speaker 1: then of course he's just going with the Fiat Standard,

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Speaker 1: which I haven't read yet, but I know it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be amazing as well. We are going to come back

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Speaker 1: and talk about more about sound money and gold and

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Speaker 1: bitcoin where it's going. Don't go away, all right, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: You are listening to the Mark Mo Show. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about bitcoin. We're talking about the decentralized revolution that's happening

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Speaker 1: right now. I'm in the studio today with Lawrence Lepard

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Speaker 1: and we are talking about why bitcoin. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: sound money, we're talking about the need for that now. Um, Lawrence,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to pull up something that

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Speaker 1: I saw today, UM, and it was it was going

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Speaker 1: back to Peter Shift. We we talked about that earlier

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Speaker 1: and he made a comment on because Michael Sailor micro Strategy,

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Speaker 1: they've been buying up all the bitcoin. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, I saw a stat that said, um, since

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Speaker 1: he started buying, since Michael Strategy started buying they've taken

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Speaker 1: twenty five cent of all bitcoin that's been created through

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Speaker 1: mining since then, which is amazing. And today he posted

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Speaker 1: that they did another big acquisition of the big the

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Speaker 1: big purchase, which I tell people. People ask me all

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Speaker 1: the time, should I buy an hour? Should I wait?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, if you think you're smarter than

425
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 1: Michael Sailor, then I guess you can figure that out. Otherwise,

426
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 1: just follow his lead. But Peter Shift commented on that,

427
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 1: and he said that he said, quote, imagine how much

428
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 1: lower the price of bitcoin would be without your buying

429
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 1: so many And so he's he's he's setting it up

430
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: like it's a Ponzi scheme. But wouldn't the same be

431
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,920
Speaker 1: true about gold? Absolutely? I mean, that's or any asset, right, yeah,

432
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 1: that's an asset. That's an unfair comment. I mean, first

433
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 1: of all, I don't think Sailors purchases as a percentage

434
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: of total volume, you know, I mean Bitcoin's trading five

435
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 1: thousand coins a day, you know, I don't do you

436
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 1: know the balance that Sailor's company owns. I don't think

437
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,920
Speaker 1: it's that large. Well, it's like a hundred and twenty

438
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 1: five thousand, know what I'm saying is he's taking taking

439
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 1: of the new supply, but apply a small compared to

440
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 1: the base, and it's only growing up one point sent

441
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,680
Speaker 1: a year, and when the next halving comes, that will

442
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 1: be cut in half. I mean yeah, no. And you

443
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 1: can say the same thing about gold. Yeah. I mean

444
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,640
Speaker 1: that's the gold mining supplies about one seven. They're they're

445
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: actually at a stock to flow ratio. They're about the

446
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 1: same right now. Um, but that's gonna change. Um yeah,

447
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: I know it's that's kind of a specious criticism in

448
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: my view. I mean, the you know, the price of

449
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: it going goes up and down. It to me, it

450
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. I'm like you, I mean, I'm in

451
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: this because it's changing the world. Um, I do believe

452
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 1: the price will be multiples higher than it is today,

453
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,440
Speaker 1: you know in five years. I mean I think you know, people,

454
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people I talk to a loot get

455
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 1: today and say sixty old, I can't pay that you

456
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 1: paid five or six. I mean, you know, I'm paying

457
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 1: too much. And I think people are missing a bigger picture,

458
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: which is in five or ten years will be six

459
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: hundred thousand or six million. I mean, who knows, But um,

460
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 1: you know, there'll people saying you bought one at sixty

461
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 1: thousand and be like us the way you and I

462
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 1: talk about people who bought them at you know, twelve

463
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 1: or or forty or fifty. You know, I mean, it's

464
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,919
Speaker 1: it's it's going to you know, we're at that stage

465
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: of rapid adoption. We've we've hit that ten percent tipping point.

466
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: In my view, about ten percent of the world knows

467
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: and knows about bitclan owns it. And if you look

468
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: at history, you know, adoption of any new technology, that's

469
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: where it really starts to get interesting. I mean, I

470
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 1: figured this is like a couple of years after Netscape

471
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: came out with the Internet browser, and we're about to

472
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 1: really catch a wave here in terms of this thing

473
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 1: being widely adopted in the next five years in my view,

474
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 1: and in ten years it will be almost universally adopted

475
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: in if you look at like es curve, so they

476
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 1: have this kind of the diffusion of innovation, right and

477
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: so you have this this Bell curve um and I

478
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: think we're just kind of crossing the chasm right now.

479
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 1: I think the E T F and L. Salvador is

480
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 1: helping to cross that chasm and then if you overlay

481
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,959
Speaker 1: an S curve chart to that ES curve tells us

482
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 1: that the time it takes to go from zero to

483
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 1: ten percent adoption is this time I should take to

484
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: go from ten tooption. And so we're we're in we're

485
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: just past that ten percent, as you just kind of

486
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: said globally, I think we're about in the US, and

487
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: so we're really going to start going into this this

488
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: parabolic run. And if S curve, you know, oscar works

489
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: pretty well. Um, and and that says that we should

490
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 1: be at about eighty to adoption by the end of

491
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: the decade. I think that's right. I think that's a

492
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: definitely right. I mean it's it's been around for thirteen years, right,

493
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: and so add another thirteen hundred almost in the end

494
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 1: of the decade, is you know nine away or something

495
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: like that. So yeah, yeah, exactly. Now, Um, one thing, um,

496
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: you know, as I kind of started the first section

497
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: with kind of giving my real quick story of in

498
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight getting wiped out. You know, I

499
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: had sold my business as I sold my rentals, and

500
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 1: I was all in and developing real estate in south

501
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: of California and got wiped out. And so because of that,

502
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: I learned don't ever go all in. And so I've

503
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: been you know, I'm I'm I'm as bullish on bitcoin

504
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: as anybody here. Um. But even even that, uh, I

505
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: still don't put a hundred percent of every penny I

506
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: have into bitcoin. I know a lot of you know,

507
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: you see on Twitter, a lot of these people are like,

508
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,479
Speaker 1: you know, selling their selling everything to buy it. Um.

509
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: I guess because I've been burned, I don't do that. Um.

510
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: And and so I think there's still a need to

511
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: have other people hold other assets. UM. And you said

512
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: you still hold gold as well. UM. Jumping back to

513
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 1: golden I'm curious. Um, you said you have a fund

514
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: that manages like gold miners, so you're kind of more

515
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: focused on the gold miners because they have more of

516
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: a kind of asymmetric return versus just the physical gold itself. Well,

517
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: that's right. I mean, the typical role of thumb is

518
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 1: if gold goes up ten percent, the mining stocks I mean,

519
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: gold miners really are kind of private central banks. I

520
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: mean they can create what I think is the best

521
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: form of money, you know, pre bitcoin, um, by pulling

522
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 1: it out of the ground. And some of the minds

523
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: I'm involved with have twenty thirty year lives, so they're

524
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: gonna be pulling this metal out of the ground for

525
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: the next thirty years. And that's you know, that's a stream.

526
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: That's I mean, you know Buffett's knock on gold is

527
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: it's a goose that doesn't lay eggs. It's just a vault.

528
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: You know, at least the companies are able to produce

529
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: the underlying you know entity. You know. So that's why

530
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 1: which he did he did by Barrick or you know,

531
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: it's actually lieutenants did. I don't think he did it,

532
00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: Berkshire did or whatever. Right, So, um, I'm serious then

533
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: on what you think the outlook is for gold, because

534
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: it seems like gold has been this inflation hedge and

535
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: if there was and maybe a time you know, chaos

536
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: hedge as well, right, and if there was ever a

537
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: time that there was chaos, and there was every time

538
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: that was inflation. I mean the last two years have

539
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: been that, and we we saw a little bump from

540
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: like fifteen to eighteen, but for the most part, gold

541
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: just hasn't responded. I mean, what do you talk about that? Yeah,

542
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: I mean, so this is a you know, we're all

543
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: all the gold world is kind of sitting and we're frustrated. Right, So,

544
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: you know, literally every commodity in the world is up

545
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: enormously in the last twelve months, and gold has been

546
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: flatted slightly down. So keeping my gold gold as a

547
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,239
Speaker 1: leading indicator, it's out there in front of all these

548
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: other commodities. Gold smelled it and people forget that two

549
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: years ago too and a half years ago goals at hundred.

550
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: So gold took a tear from thirteen hundred up to

551
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: which is pretty damn good for a market that's you know,

552
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: a five trillion dollar traded market um in the period

553
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: from you to the top in August. And now we're

554
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: consolid dating, right. We came off the we came down

555
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: to um. You know, we're at the level right now.

556
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: And I think that's you know, what it's done, is

557
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: that that reflects kind of the pullback in the printing,

558
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: you know, the Joe Mansion trying to shut down the spending,

559
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, the pretend taper and the pretend interest rate increase,

560
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 1: which none of which I think will occur. And so

561
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: gold has kind of gotten a little bit wheasy and

562
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: it's it's corrected a bit. But but markets breathe, and

563
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: my senses when it becomes clear that their only choice

564
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: is to continue printing, that they're not going to be

565
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: able to raise interest rates, that they are trapped and

566
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: can't get out of it, that we're gonna catch the

567
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: next wind up, and gold's gonna smell the next level

568
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: of monetary debasement. It actually started running long before the

569
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 1: COVID thing. It was running, you know, on the monetary

570
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: debasement that was occurring pre COVID. And so as the

571
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: next chapter in monetary debasement starts to unfold, and I'm

572
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: pretty sure it will quite soon, Gold's gonna go up.

573
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: It's gonna go through, and it's not gonna look back.

574
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a d before people know it. I mean,

575
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: people have to remember that gold tends to stall at

576
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: these peaks. Mean, the old peak was eight hundred, eight

577
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: hundred from two thousand seven two thousand eight, installed at

578
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: eight hundred. Then it broke through it, it it went to

579
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred without looking back. Then it came from nineteen

580
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 1: hundred down to a thousand. Then it went from a

581
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: thousand all the way up to fifty. It's correct a

582
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: little off of that. When we take out nineteen hundred

583
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: or two thousand again, and it's not a double top lookout.

584
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: It'll be at three thousand within the next two years

585
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: in my view, two or three thousand in the next year,

586
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: the next two years, next two year, thousand probably next year,

587
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: two thousand definitely next year, and three thousand probably within

588
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: two years. That's my opinion, okay. And then if that happens,

589
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: then I mean, then then gold miners can go up,

590
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: you know, multiple, multiple gold miners will be up to

591
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: three four x where they are today. And by the way,

592
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: bitcoin will probably be a two hundred fifty three hund thousand.

593
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I think bitcoin will outperform gold. But the

594
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind up between the two is

595
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: that they're not competing with each other, as Sailor says.

596
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: I think he's wrong about that. What they're competing with

597
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: his Fiat. And I always like to cite the big

598
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: picture numbers. They're four hundred fifty trillion dollars of Fiat

599
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: assets in the world. That's stocks, bonds, in cash, all

600
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: spread around the world. There's five trillion of tradeable gold,

601
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: not the stuff that's in museums and banks, and there's

602
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: one trillion of tradable gold stocks and there's one trillion

603
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: of bitcoin. So that's seven trillion dollars of sound money

604
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: stuff financial assets, four hundred and fifty trillion dollars of stocks,

605
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: bonds in cash. So so when the four fifty says, hey,

606
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: we got inflation, where are they going to go? They're

607
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: going after the seven Yeah, good point. Um. You listen

608
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: to the Mark Ma Show. We're talking about bitcoin, We're

609
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: talking about the decentralized revolution. I'm in the studio with

610
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: Lawrence Lepard. We're talking about gold. Now, I want to

611
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: talk about what happens to gold or bitcoin in the

612
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: event of the next market crash. Looking back in the

613
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: lens of history at the last two crashes that we've had,

614
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: I want to get your take on it. I put

615
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: mine out there before. We'll be right back with that.

616
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: Don't go away. Hey, everyone, welcome back. You're listening to

617
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: the Markma Show. We're talking about bitcoin. We're talking about

618
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: the decentralized revolution um and today we're in the studio

619
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: with Lawrence Leppard. We're talking about bitcoin, we're talking about

620
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: sound money, and we're talking about gold. Has been you know,

621
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: sound money for five thousand years. Now, Lawrence, UM, one

622
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: thing that I'd like to ask you about. UM. I

623
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: have my opinions on this, but UM, seeing as you know,

624
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: gold is that inflation hedge, that cast hedge, et cetera. UM,

625
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: and now Bitcoin is kind of assuming that role. A

626
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 1: lot of people want to know what would happen to

627
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: Bitcoin in the event of a market crash. Now, of

628
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: course we don't have you know, bitcoin hasn't been around

629
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: long enough to have survived some of these ones previously. UM.

630
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: But what I noticed is, UM, we we obviously we

631
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: did have marches, we have that. But if we go

632
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: back to UM two thousand eight, which obviously bitcoin wasn't around,

633
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: But we look at the way gold responded in two

634
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: thousand eight, UM, and then it behaved similarly I think

635
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: in March, and also Bitcoin sort of behaved very similar

636
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: in a sense where UM gold dropped about half in

637
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: two thousand eight, Gold dropped about half of what the

638
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: stock market did and then recovered in seven months. It

639
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: took stock seven years to recover. UM. In in March,

640
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: we saw the stock market drop with gold dropped right

641
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: and then went on to take take new eyes UM

642
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: and bitcoin kind of did the same. It dropped as well,

643
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: but then rebounded really quickly, but in two thousand eight.

644
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: So anyway, what do you say about that? What do

645
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: you think do you think bitcoin and gold are kind

646
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: of working the same in those types of environments? Um does?

647
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: Does is gold somewhat invalidated because it seems to drop

648
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: with the overall market as well? No, I don't think

649
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: golds invalided. I mean, I think what what you're describing

650
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: in all these events is is um You know, we

651
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: have credit and liquidity unwines, and of course correlation. Everything

652
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: goes to correlation of one and so you know, margin

653
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: calls hit, people need to sell, they sell what they

654
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: can sell, not what they want to sell, and so

655
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: it's not at all uncommon you know, in any of

656
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: these assets that they're going to plunge immediately, but they

657
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: also recover first, and then they recover strongly because the response,

658
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: we know, the coming policy response. I mean, I remember

659
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: March very clearly in gold, and it was brutal. I

660
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: mean it was you know, there was a crisis, it

661
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: was COVID, everything got shut down, the market plunge, everything plunged,

662
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: and then j Pyle came out and said, you know,

663
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: he pulled a Merrio drug. He said, we're gonna do

664
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: whatever it takes to solve this, to solve this problem,

665
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: to print money. We've got all these programs, et cetera.

666
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: Gold went up a hundred dollars a day, two days

667
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: back to back. It's never done that before. And bitcoin

668
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 1: actually was a little slower responding. It hadn't gone down

669
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: quite as far either, I think, as I recall, but

670
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: and it responded robustly as well. And so people understand that.

671
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: You know, the government's number one job is to keep

672
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: these markets functioning and to keep things functioning. And they

673
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: may not want to print the money, but when push

674
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: comes to shove and the economy is cratering for lack

675
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: of money in the system, they have to print the money.

676
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: They will print the money, and they promised to print

677
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: the money, and that creates a rush into assets which

678
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: protect you from the printing of the money, which is

679
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: bitcoin and gold. So so people need to be slightly

680
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: aware and concerned about a draw down, a sharp drawn

681
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: down on a market crunch. And this is why one

682
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: of the things I make a point to all my clients,

683
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to be active on it. On Twitter

684
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: leverage kills. Leverage is a very bad thing, and I

685
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: think a lot of bitcoin players have gotten pretty heavily leveraged,

686
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: thinking this is inevitable, It's gonna be worth a ton

687
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: of money, you know, So what if I borrow some

688
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: money to buy it, Well, that's fine, as long as

689
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: you can handle the drawdown. And so, like everybody needs

690
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: to kind of game theory out and math out how

691
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: much draw down can you handle so that you don't

692
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: get blown out. You don't want to get blown out

693
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: of your position if there's a short term bump in

694
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: the price or drop in the price. Yeah, for sure.

695
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: I mean going back to you know, my my tragic

696
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 1: story of two thousand eight in real estate, that was

697
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: exactly what did me in was the leverage on that right.

698
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: So one of one of the one of the big

699
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: projects that was scrubbed, the final dagger. I was doing

700
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: this at twelve million dollar mixed use building and UH,

701
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: I had an offer at eleven million, and I turned

702
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: it down, and uh within less than twelve months that

703
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: building the bank. I went back to the bank to

704
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: sold it for four million. I had an offer at

705
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: eleven I turned down the bank end up selling it

706
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: for four Now today that building is probably worth twenty right,

707
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: but I couldn't carry it. I couldn't carry that. I

708
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: think that. I think the pain was like five thousand

709
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: at the time or per month or something like that,

710
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: and I couldn't do it right. So I had all

711
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: this leverage, um and I couldn't afford to carry. So

712
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: that's that's the number one thing I pay attended to

713
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: do these days. I mean, look, what we're watching here

714
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: is really historic, Mark, I mean, we're watching a monetary

715
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: system fail, in my opinion, and this is for the

716
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: history books. Our kids will read about this, you know,

717
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: and and it's gonna be It's amazing what's going on.

718
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: It is historic, as you pointed out, and bitcoin is

719
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: it's just a wonderful invention. And but there's a price

720
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: to watching a monetary system fail, and that is volatility.

721
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: You know, there's a great chart if you get on

722
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,719
Speaker 1: Twitter and you go through you get on Twitter, look

723
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: at my feed and goo Google merma can M y

724
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: R I M I K and you'll see them and

725
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: everyone you've seen this mark the chart, the Memrmican gold

726
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: volatility chart. And Weimar I posted at the other day

727
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: what was going to happen. The y Mar Warker was

728
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 1: going to become worth zero, but in the interim there

729
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: were some wild, wild price wings, and I think people

730
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: should be very aware of that. And that's why with

731
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: respect to bitcoin, I really strongly believe the right way

732
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: to approach this is the dollar crossed average. You know,

733
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: to buy some and then buy more, and then buy more,

734
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: and then buy more, and if it goes down, to

735
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 1: buy more. And I think the right you know, they

736
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: have the right habit on bitcoin is buying the dip

737
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: and and and not carrying leverage so that you have

738
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: capital with which to buy the dip, not getting pushed

739
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: out of your position. Now, in two thousand eight, when

740
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: the stock market dropped, it dropped like six As I said,

741
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: gold dropped about half of that, and then stock market

742
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: took seven years, or coover gold took seven months. But

743
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: gold went on to go up about from its previous

744
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: high the floor the market it crashed um and today

745
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: it's only gone up by six percent, whereas bit whereas

746
00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: bitcoin from the previous high before the is up, whereas

747
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: gold only up six So it seemed like gold really

748
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: responded well after two eight. This time is not responding

749
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: is good. Do you think some of that is because bitcoin,

750
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: that the retail market has really stolen a lot of

751
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: its thundering. There's absolutely no doubt about it. I mean,

752
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: bitcoin is a it's Bitcoin is gonna outperform gold. There's

753
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: just no doubt about that. And and well there's some doubt.

754
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: There's some doubt. Otherwise you wouldn't know any gold. Well, yeah, no,

755
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: that's that's not true. They serve they serve a different

756
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: they serve a different purpose. Really, I mean it's um

757
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: because I you know, it's it's not all just about performance, right,

758
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: it's about it's about volatility adjusted performance. When you're managing

759
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 1: professional money. Yeah, of course draw if your money manager

760
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: and you're only managing bitcoin and you have I mean,

761
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: try being a money manager having draw down and going

762
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: to your clients and saying, hey, client, I know we're down,

763
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: but hang on, we're gonna be right. It's just not

764
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: gonna happen, right, it's a problem. But what was the

765
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: question again, I Mean the question was, well, if if

766
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: the recovery of gold hasn't been a strong two eight,

767
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: and if you think bitcoin has stole some of that,

768
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: it is also somewhat suppressed I mean, we don't have

769
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: to go into that, but it trust me, it is

770
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: and and I think that you know, look, golds owned

771
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: by central banks. Part of the reason your own gold

772
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about this. Part of the reason your

773
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: old gold is because eventually there could be a serious

774
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: reset would expect to gold if we're there's a number

775
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: that I think everyone should be aware of. If we

776
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: were on the gold standard today, if we were on

777
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: the gold and you did the math the way you

778
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: did it back when we were on the gold standard,

779
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: gold would be atty owns. Okay. So let's say Russia, China,

780
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 1: and the United States decide our financial system is broken,

781
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: we need to go back to the gold standard. They

782
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: would need to reprice gold at thirty dollars ounces. It's

783
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: an The reason, my opinion is one of the reasons

784
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: you hold gold today is the optionality of the paper

785
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: gold market breaking and that repricing occurring. Right, It's still

786
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: it always there, Yeah, it's always there. I'm not saying

787
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: it's you can't guarantee it, you can't count on it,

788
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: but you know it's it's a it's a hell mary

789
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: kind of a thing. But but to your point, I mean,

790
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: China and Russia are still major, majorly accumulating gold, and

791
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: so the reason why they're doing that is because they

792
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: must also think the same thing. Well, and the other thing.

793
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: The other thing is, you know, all of us know

794
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: that the right thing to do would be to go

795
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 1: to a bitcoin standard, but there aren't any central banks

796
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: that own bitcoin, and so as long as the central

797
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 1: banks exist, there's a very high, in my opinion, there's

798
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: a pretty high probability they're going to try a gold

799
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: standard before they figure out that the right thing is

800
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: the bitcoin standard. When that happens, gold is gonna perform

801
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: extremely well during that period. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and

802
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: to the point that you you have been making before,

803
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: you know, back to the two thousand eight example, is

804
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: that we know that they're going to have to print.

805
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: They have no choice. We know it's going to be

806
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: extreme debasement eventually, and and probably sooner than later at

807
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: the point we're app it's going to as you said,

808
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: the history books were written about this, we're watching this

809
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: implode on them right now. So the only choice they

810
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 1: would have if they want to try to say things,

811
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: that's a big if, If they want to try to

812
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: save things, then the only chance they may have is

813
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: to try to get confidence back by backing it with gold. Um,

814
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: that's why China and Russia are accumulating so much. And

815
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: if that happens, then it gets revalued and could be

816
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: exactly And that's why you know they say gold may

817
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: only reset once in your lifetime, but once might be enough. Yeah,

818
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: so you listen to the Mark Moa Show in the

819
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: Studio with Lawrence Laparde. Thank you so much for listening.