WEBVTT - Where's the Line Between Cultural Appropriation and Appreciation? 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:06.520 Welcome to brain Stuff, production of I Heart Radio. Hey 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:10.080 brain Stuff, Lauren vog Obam. Here, let's talk about the 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:15.000 complex definitions and pitfalls of cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.439 In May of twenty nineteen, Nordstrom had to apologize for 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:22.120 advertising a turban designed by Gucci that they were selling 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:26.279 for seven nine dollars, which closely resembled sacred turbans worn 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.520 by people of the Seek faith. Simwren Jeet Singh, a 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.360 senior fellow with the New York based Seek Coalition, told 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.720 the Associated Press, we feel that companies are commodifying and 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.320 capitalizing on something that is dear and sacred to people 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:42.479 around the world. Nordstrom stopped carrying the product, though Gucci 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:46.320 has not yet responded to the criticism. In February, Gucci 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.280 got in trouble for featuring a black sweater that could 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:50.880 be pulled over the chin and nose. The sweater had 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:52.800 to cut out for the mouth, framed by giant red 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.040 lips that called to mind images of black face for 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.680 many people. Gucci ended up removing the offending garment. The 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.440 health food restaurant Sweet Green also recently came under fire 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:04.920 for using the hip hop lyrics of black artists to 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.400 promote items on their menu in predominantly wealthier, wider neighborhoods. 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.800 The rise of social media has significantly contributed to public 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.640 outcries against what some people see as the exploitation of 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:20.280 cultures that historically have been marginalized. For instance, Brazilian model 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.880 Alessandra Ambrosio was heavily criticized on Instagram for posting a 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.720 picture of herself wearing a sacred Native American headpiece as 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:31.399 a fashion item to Coachella Music Festival. Others argue that 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.920 the movement has gone too far and persecuting people who 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.600 mean no harm. So where's the line? On the most 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.800 basic level, cultural appropriation happens when a member of one 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.840 culture uses the products, hair, clothing, customs, et cetera of 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.720 another culture of which they are not a member. This 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.840 in itself is not fundamentally wrong, says philosophy professor Eric Mathis, 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.120 who teaches at Wesley College and has written about cultural appropriation. 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.200 If it was, would all be in deep trouble given 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.559 how interactions between cultures have been going on for millennia. 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.559 So when does it cross the line from something benign 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:09.919 or even productive to something that causes harm. The reality 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.360 is that there's simply no hard and fast rule. It 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.840 depends on the context, and a few key factors make 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:20.919 the determination power, intent and outcome. For example, if you're 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.160 a white American and a close friend of yours invites 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.880 you to their traditional Indian wedding, it would likely be 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.760 fine for you to don traditional Indian clothing for the occasion. 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.680 Your intent would be to honor your friend's wish and 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.920 show respect for their traditions. Now say, before the festivities, 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.320 you're running a last minute errand and bump into a 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.880 white American friend They can't get over how great you 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.760 look in your sorry and snap a photo they posted 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.720 on Instagram without mentioning the wedding tag you and add 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.640 a hashtag Bollywood. You and or your friend might be 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.760 in trouble for appropriating or perhaps mocking a culture. In 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.919 this case, the style of dress that in the US 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.799 has historically been marginalized. And let's take it one step 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.640 for there, say the sorry you're wearing was designed by 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.600 a big name Western brand. Did the companies seek consent 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.480 from an Indian culture to use traditional designs in their clothing. 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.480 This is where the logic of cultural appropriation gets messy. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.440 Of course, you can't ask a culture for consent. Cultures 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:19.240 are fluid and often have ill defined boundaries. If you're 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.760 a celebrity with millions of followers around the world, the 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.800 possibility offending someone is compounded, as when Beyonce performed at 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.079 an Indian wedding in twenty eighteen wearing an Indian inspired 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.839 outfit including a deeply v necked in a high side 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:36.920 slit dress plus quasi traditional jewelry. As Mathis said, taking 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:38.839 a picture of something that might be viewed as wrong 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.560 in one context and broadcasting that to the entire world 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:46.920 is inevitably going to result in disagreement. What's important in 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.360 these cases of cultural exchange is due diligence. Mathis notes, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.640 if someone from a marginalized culture raises a concern, you 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.960 should investigate to find out why. The best source for 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.920 this information is always going to be people from that culture. 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.440 Other people, even with the best of intentions, might misrepresent 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.240 the issues at hand. Mathis also advises against speaking out 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.960 on behalf of other cultures, though I would personally say 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.160 that if you do your research and perhaps consult with 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.800 a friend or a public representative from that culture, it 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.200 can be helpful for someone of a dominant culture to 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.920 check their friends and family's behavior, though what constitutes good 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.960 ally ship is a whole other episode. Critics say that 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.479 this whole movement against cultural appropriation is causing some people 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.880 to be less open to cultural exchange at Jenny Avans, 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.520 in an article for the Atlantic, said, no matter how 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.320 much I love Cablenet sweaters and gree Aer cheese, I 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:38.880 don't want to live in a world where the only 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.919 cultural inspiration I'm entitled to comes from my roots in Ireland, 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.640 Switzerland and Eastern Europe. There are legitimate reasons to step 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.000 carefully when dressing ourselves with the clothing, arts, artifacts, or 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.480 ideas of other cultures, but please, let's banish the idea 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:56.880 that appropriating elements from one another's cultures is in itself problematic. 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.240 Mathis agrees that in some case as an overabundance of 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.279 caution can also cause harm. For example, say you're traveling 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.599 through New Mexico and stop at an arts and crafts show. 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.600 Because of how much negative attention there's been lately about 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.080 Coachella attendees wearing Native American headdresses. You wind up not 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.719 buying anything from the Native American booths for fear of 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.040 acting offensively, but arts and crafts are how many Native 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.040 Americans support themselves in their families. In fact, the U. 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.839 S Government passed the Indian Arts and Crafts Act, which 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.200 outlaws marketing products in a way that suggests they were 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.440 created by Native Americans if they were not. The intent 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.719 was to protect the livelihoods of Native crafts people. Learning 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.160 about the art you're buying and the traditions behind it 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:42.839 can help you purchase and display the art respectfully. Critics 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.880 have also accused the movement against cultural appropriation for being 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:50.719 overly sensitive. Here, Mathis pushes back. He said, when you 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.520 think about the changes in contemporary culture that allow for 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.680 the possibility of making clear and public statements about ways 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.479 in which you've been marginalized or oppressed, that's a good 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.360 thing in a context in which people feel free to 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.719 talk about those experiences. If it leads to people sometimes 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:13.479 going overboard, that's a cost we can deal with. Today's 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.320 episode was written by Daniel Duvies and produced by Tyler Clang. 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:18.560 Brain Stuff is a production of I Heart Radio's How 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.560 Stuff Works. For more in this and lots of other 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.599 sticky but important topics, visit our home planet, how stuff 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.400 Works dot com, and for more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.240 visit thy heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:30.400 listen to your favorite shows.