1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff, production of I Heart Radio. Hey 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: brain Stuff, Lauren vog Obam. Here, let's talk about the 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: complex definitions and pitfalls of cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: In May of twenty nineteen, Nordstrom had to apologize for 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: advertising a turban designed by Gucci that they were selling 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: for seven nine dollars, which closely resembled sacred turbans worn 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: by people of the Seek faith. Simwren Jeet Singh, a 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: senior fellow with the New York based Seek Coalition, told 9 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: the Associated Press, we feel that companies are commodifying and 10 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: capitalizing on something that is dear and sacred to people 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: around the world. Nordstrom stopped carrying the product, though Gucci 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: has not yet responded to the criticism. In February, Gucci 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: got in trouble for featuring a black sweater that could 14 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: be pulled over the chin and nose. The sweater had 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: to cut out for the mouth, framed by giant red 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: lips that called to mind images of black face for 17 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: many people. Gucci ended up removing the offending garment. The 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: health food restaurant Sweet Green also recently came under fire 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: for using the hip hop lyrics of black artists to 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: promote items on their menu in predominantly wealthier, wider neighborhoods. 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: The rise of social media has significantly contributed to public 22 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: outcries against what some people see as the exploitation of 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: cultures that historically have been marginalized. For instance, Brazilian model 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: Alessandra Ambrosio was heavily criticized on Instagram for posting a 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: picture of herself wearing a sacred Native American headpiece as 26 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: a fashion item to Coachella Music Festival. Others argue that 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: the movement has gone too far and persecuting people who 28 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: mean no harm. So where's the line? On the most 29 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: basic level, cultural appropriation happens when a member of one 30 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: culture uses the products, hair, clothing, customs, et cetera of 31 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: another culture of which they are not a member. This 32 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: in itself is not fundamentally wrong, says philosophy professor Eric Mathis, 33 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: who teaches at Wesley College and has written about cultural appropriation. 34 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: If it was, would all be in deep trouble given 35 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: how interactions between cultures have been going on for millennia. 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 1: So when does it cross the line from something benign 37 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: or even productive to something that causes harm. The reality 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: is that there's simply no hard and fast rule. It 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: depends on the context, and a few key factors make 40 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: the determination power, intent and outcome. For example, if you're 41 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: a white American and a close friend of yours invites 42 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: you to their traditional Indian wedding, it would likely be 43 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: fine for you to don traditional Indian clothing for the occasion. 44 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: Your intent would be to honor your friend's wish and 45 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: show respect for their traditions. Now say, before the festivities, 46 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: you're running a last minute errand and bump into a 47 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: white American friend They can't get over how great you 48 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: look in your sorry and snap a photo they posted 49 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: on Instagram without mentioning the wedding tag you and add 50 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: a hashtag Bollywood. You and or your friend might be 51 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: in trouble for appropriating or perhaps mocking a culture. In 52 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: this case, the style of dress that in the US 53 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: has historically been marginalized. And let's take it one step 54 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: for there, say the sorry you're wearing was designed by 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: a big name Western brand. Did the companies seek consent 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: from an Indian culture to use traditional designs in their clothing. 57 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: This is where the logic of cultural appropriation gets messy. 58 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: Of course, you can't ask a culture for consent. Cultures 59 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: are fluid and often have ill defined boundaries. If you're 60 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: a celebrity with millions of followers around the world, the 61 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: possibility offending someone is compounded, as when Beyonce performed at 62 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: an Indian wedding in twenty eighteen wearing an Indian inspired 63 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 1: outfit including a deeply v necked in a high side 64 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: slit dress plus quasi traditional jewelry. As Mathis said, taking 65 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,839 Speaker 1: a picture of something that might be viewed as wrong 66 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: in one context and broadcasting that to the entire world 67 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: is inevitably going to result in disagreement. What's important in 68 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: these cases of cultural exchange is due diligence. Mathis notes, 69 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: if someone from a marginalized culture raises a concern, you 70 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: should investigate to find out why. The best source for 71 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: this information is always going to be people from that culture. 72 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: Other people, even with the best of intentions, might misrepresent 73 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: the issues at hand. Mathis also advises against speaking out 74 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: on behalf of other cultures, though I would personally say 75 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: that if you do your research and perhaps consult with 76 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: a friend or a public representative from that culture, it 77 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: can be helpful for someone of a dominant culture to 78 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: check their friends and family's behavior, though what constitutes good 79 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: ally ship is a whole other episode. Critics say that 80 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: this whole movement against cultural appropriation is causing some people 81 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: to be less open to cultural exchange at Jenny Avans, 82 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: in an article for the Atlantic, said, no matter how 83 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: much I love Cablenet sweaters and gree Aer cheese, I 84 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: don't want to live in a world where the only 85 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: cultural inspiration I'm entitled to comes from my roots in Ireland, 86 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: Switzerland and Eastern Europe. There are legitimate reasons to step 87 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: carefully when dressing ourselves with the clothing, arts, artifacts, or 88 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: ideas of other cultures, but please, let's banish the idea 89 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: that appropriating elements from one another's cultures is in itself problematic. 90 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: Mathis agrees that in some case as an overabundance of 91 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: caution can also cause harm. For example, say you're traveling 92 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: through New Mexico and stop at an arts and crafts show. 93 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: Because of how much negative attention there's been lately about 94 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: Coachella attendees wearing Native American headdresses. You wind up not 95 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: buying anything from the Native American booths for fear of 96 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: acting offensively, but arts and crafts are how many Native 97 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: Americans support themselves in their families. In fact, the U. 98 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: S Government passed the Indian Arts and Crafts Act, which 99 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: outlaws marketing products in a way that suggests they were 100 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: created by Native Americans if they were not. The intent 101 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: was to protect the livelihoods of Native crafts people. Learning 102 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: about the art you're buying and the traditions behind it 103 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: can help you purchase and display the art respectfully. Critics 104 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: have also accused the movement against cultural appropriation for being 105 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: overly sensitive. Here, Mathis pushes back. He said, when you 106 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: think about the changes in contemporary culture that allow for 107 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: the possibility of making clear and public statements about ways 108 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: in which you've been marginalized or oppressed, that's a good 109 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: thing in a context in which people feel free to 110 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: talk about those experiences. If it leads to people sometimes 111 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: going overboard, that's a cost we can deal with. Today's 112 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: episode was written by Daniel Duvies and produced by Tyler Clang. 113 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: Brain Stuff is a production of I Heart Radio's How 114 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: Stuff Works. For more in this and lots of other 115 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: sticky but important topics, visit our home planet, how stuff 116 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: Works dot com, and for more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 117 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: visit thy heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 118 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.