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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the more interesting aspects of business of sports. So there's

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Speaker 1: all kinds of cool questions. So this is a fun

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Speaker 1: topic to the country is finally getting the memo about

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Speaker 1: how amazing the sport is. I think the sky's a

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Speaker 1: limit for MLS. We're spending more and more of our

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Speaker 1: time in a digital world, and it's also becoming a

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Speaker 1: really powerful place for commerce. It is so nice to

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Speaker 1: be back and to be able to have fans back

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Speaker 1: in the building. So despite the chaotic schedule, and this

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Speaker 1: is why we do what we do. When you get

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Speaker 1: into the playoffs, there's nothing better as a player for

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Speaker 1: an excitement and it's also for the organization. Monsitors involved.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports and we explore the big

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Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barn

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Speaker 1: I'm Scarlett Phil and we have a good guest. We

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Speaker 1: have several guests this week. In fact, first of all,

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Speaker 1: we have Nina King, and you know Nina King. She

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Speaker 1: is the Vice president and direct dre of Athletics for

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Speaker 1: Duke University and also to help explain a few things.

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Speaker 1: An old friend of the show, Marty Edle, he's the

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Speaker 1: co chair of Gulston and Stores Sports law practice. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the business of sports. As you

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Speaker 1: always know, the focus of this is on the n

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Speaker 1: I L article by Bloomberg Laws Peter Hayes, which is

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Speaker 1: connected to the Nina King interview that we are going

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Speaker 1: to present to you that is coming up straight ahead

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Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. But we got some

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Speaker 1: topics to talk about, and let's start. Oh my, Disney

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Speaker 1: Plus could lose twenty million subscribers by saying so long

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Speaker 1: cricket in India and scar cricket is king in India.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Completely So Disney was competing against a

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Speaker 1: couple of other bidders, and it turns out Reliance, which

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Speaker 1: is a Indian conglomerate, have won the digital streaming rights

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Speaker 1: to India's Premier League for cricket for six point two

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Speaker 1: billion dollars. Well that's six point two billion overall is

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Speaker 1: four media rights, but we're talking specifically for the streaming

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Speaker 1: rights which has been awarded to Reliance rather than Disney.

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Speaker 1: Disney got the TV rights, but it really wanted the

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Speaker 1: streaming rights and at stake here is the number of

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Speaker 1: subscribers for Disney Plus. That is the driver for the

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Speaker 1: stock price for Disney. Disney stock price has not been

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Speaker 1: doing well in two down almost thirty nine percent so

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Speaker 1: far this year, and a big part of that is

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Speaker 1: because investors are re rating global streaming and how much

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Speaker 1: money you can make from a Netflix obviously was a

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Speaker 1: catalyst for people re rating everything after Netflix said that

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Speaker 1: it was seeing subscriber growth slow down and gave forecasts

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Speaker 1: that showed that the slowdown would continue. And now everyone's

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Speaker 1: looking at Disney and saying, wait a minute, Disney Plus,

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Speaker 1: can it get to the numbers that it had promised?

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Speaker 1: Bob Jpeck, the CEO, had promised or had forecasts that

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Speaker 1: it would get as many as two six million subscribers

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Speaker 1: without cricket. I don't know if it gets there, but

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Speaker 1: let's be fair, though, the money that they would have

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Speaker 1: to pay to get the rights for cricket, we're talking

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Speaker 1: multibillion dollars. That is a lot of money. Scar it

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Speaker 1: is it is, but they're willing to do it to

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Speaker 1: get the numbers because the numbers drive the stock price,

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Speaker 1: and the stock price is a Brominer. It's reflection. It's

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Speaker 1: a referendum on the company and how it's being managed

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Speaker 1: by by Bob Chapek, who, of course took over from

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Speaker 1: Bob Iger and has still yet to convince investors that

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Speaker 1: he's the steward for the company the way that I

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Speaker 1: was for Disney. And when I say billions, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about six point two billion dollars. Let's move on to

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Speaker 1: the Baltimore Orioles. Now, yes, of course, yeah, we know

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Speaker 1: the record, he's like, but they are they do they

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Speaker 1: They're fun to watch if you're a fan of the Orioles.

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Speaker 1: And uh, the Orioles. Uh, let's say the key players involved.

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Speaker 1: They made a statement the family. Uh, we're not leaving anywhere.

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Speaker 1: We're not leaving Baltimore. Where did you get that knucklehead idea?

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of family drama here, which I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize and didn't fully appreciate. But the CEO and chairman

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Speaker 1: of the Orioles, John Angelos, says that the club will

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Speaker 1: never leave, and this comes after his brother Louis brought

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit against John, alleging that John was trying to

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Speaker 1: seize control of the team and the rest of his

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Speaker 1: father's holdings. Peter H. Angelos is the father. He's ninety

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Speaker 1: two years old and he's owned the Orioles for almost

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Speaker 1: three decades. So, um, it's a lot of wrangling over

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Speaker 1: a very valuable asset here. So that's kind of drama

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Speaker 1: you have when you got a lot of what you

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Speaker 1: have drama in any family, but when you got a

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Speaker 1: lot of money, you get this drama. I'm taking you

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Speaker 1: to court because you're no, you're not gonna rule this

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Speaker 1: baseball team that we own. All of us will see

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Speaker 1: this is I would like to experience that drama once,

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Speaker 1: just one time. But you know want they are. They'll

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Speaker 1: get this sorted out sooner or later. And a big

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Speaker 1: plus for John Angelos is that he made a point

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Speaker 1: of saying that two months ago lawmakers in Maryland past

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Speaker 1: the bill that puts aside one point two billion dollars

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Speaker 1: to improve Camden Yards or the Campting Yards Sports Complex,

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Speaker 1: because we can't just limit it to the ballpark per se,

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Speaker 1: and that investment can only be accessed if the Oreos

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Speaker 1: and the Baltimore Ravens sign long term leases, if they

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Speaker 1: stay in town. Basically and very quickly, Pittsburgh Steelers they

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Speaker 1: make Fitzpatrick the highest paid safety in NFL history. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about more than eighteen point four million dollars car

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Speaker 1: thirty six million dollars guaranteed at signing as well. You

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Speaker 1: have to explain to me what the safety does. Is

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Speaker 1: this an undervalued position of the barn overvalued position in

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Speaker 1: football team? Oh, that's a very valuable position because if

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Speaker 1: you're especially if you're on the defense, because you've got

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Speaker 1: this is how when you see those wide pass outs

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Speaker 1: or even a little screen, the safety is all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden gonna see Okay, this is a screen or

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Speaker 1: is this gonna be a long pass whatever, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to make sure that you don't get away with it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, they're very important. Okay, So I mean on

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Speaker 1: the offense side, right, not necessarily in defense or is

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Speaker 1: it for defense? It's for defense, okay, But but it's

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Speaker 1: happening when the quarterback is getting ready to throw the pass. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I'm impressed and that's good. Wish I played football.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, we will talk with the athletic director with

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Speaker 1: Duke University, Nina King. That is straight ahead on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg business of sports. Scarlet Food will be there and

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Speaker 1: we will also be joined by our good old buddy

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Speaker 1: special guest host Damien's as Sour straight Ahead on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business and Sports. Don't forget we have the podcast

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Speaker 1: for the show every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. You can

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Speaker 1: download that wherever you get your podcast. By the way,

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Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg Radio around the world. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hi, this is

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports on Michael Barr along with

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Speaker 1: Scarlet fou and look who's here also our special guest host,

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Speaker 1: Damien sass Hour, and we're all sitting down talking with

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Speaker 1: the athletic director of Duke University, Nina King. Nina, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me

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Speaker 1: grace to be with you today. Well, Duke University, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people have heard of that, and

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Speaker 1: you were there obviously for coach K's last year. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk about what coach K means to college basketball

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Speaker 1: and that last year? Well, Michael, how long are we

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Speaker 1: on for you? Just take your time. Mom. Also, I

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Speaker 1: mean that's really like a four day conversation to the

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Speaker 1: fact that that coach K has had on not just

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Speaker 1: men's basketball, but Duke UM University as a whole and

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Speaker 1: and basketball UM in our country and around the world,

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Speaker 1: and really what he's done for sport has just been

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Speaker 1: absolutely amazing. His impact UM so far reaching. And so

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Speaker 1: how do you celebrate forty two iconic years UM in

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Speaker 1: the span of a of a year. This past year, UM,

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Speaker 1: our student athletes certainly got it done. I mean, bringing

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Speaker 1: our program to the Final four within an incredibly magical ending, well,

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Speaker 1: well it wasn't the ending we envisioned, wanted that national championship.

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Speaker 1: It was just so UM meat could be at the

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Speaker 1: final four for for Coach K's last run and having

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to to really show, UM, show our country

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Speaker 1: what what he has done for Duke University was so

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Speaker 1: UM exciting and terrific and UM, you know, we're kind

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Speaker 1: of we are so lucky that we still have him around.

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Speaker 1: Is an ambassador UM for now Duke University. UM. He

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Speaker 1: is still parks in the same spot in the parking

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Speaker 1: lot right next to me, and I pulled in this

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Speaker 1: morning and his car was there. So he's still coming

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Speaker 1: to work every day. And how lucky are we that

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Speaker 1: we get the benefit of Coach K and his his

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Speaker 1: wisdom and knowledge, um, still now in this new role

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Speaker 1: for him. Yeah, you say Duke Blue Devils, and everyone

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Speaker 1: thinks basketball right away and coach k and and rightfully so.

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Speaker 1: But you are in charge of all of Duke athletics.

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Speaker 1: Can you give us a breakdown of how much time

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Speaker 1: and attention you spend on basketball versus the other sports,

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Speaker 1: whether it's softball or something else. I mean it's a

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Speaker 1: like a nine split or fifty fifty. So we've got

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Speaker 1: twenty seven sports here, um. And then also Wreck and

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Speaker 1: Pe fauls under our umbrella. So all the club sports,

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Speaker 1: inter murals, physical education, and then we manage the Duke

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Speaker 1: University golf course. So we've got kind of almost three entities, right,

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Speaker 1: Varsity athletics, Wreck and Pe and the golf course. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so it just depends on the day. Um. The

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Speaker 1: last few weeks, I've been traveling around to most of

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Speaker 1: our spring sports, competing in n c A competition. So

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Speaker 1: I was at n ci A Softball Super Regionals. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to n c A track. I was

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Speaker 1: with women's lacrosse. You know, I just I really try

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Speaker 1: to make sure that I'm visible and engaged with all

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Speaker 1: of our sports, um, and have the opportunity to be

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Speaker 1: around all of our student athletes and and our coaches,

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Speaker 1: but certainly making sure that I'm you know, talking to

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Speaker 1: our coaches, meeting with our coaches throughout the year, not

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Speaker 1: just when they're when they're in season, but when they're

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Speaker 1: preparing for a new year or post season, understanding, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know what, how I can be helpful

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Speaker 1: and be a resource to them. UM. So you know,

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Speaker 1: and and that's just Duke. Then there's committees and university

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Speaker 1: committees and n c A committees and a CC work

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Speaker 1: and um, so every day is absolutely different. Some days

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure where I'm going or what I'm doing,

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Speaker 1: but we figure it out. Well. You and I know

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Speaker 1: the feeling. UM, But let me ask you this, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is the obviously, you know tons of sports. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Duke has got a presence in you know, baseball and

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Speaker 1: lacrosse and everything, but it's really about basketball. And even

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Speaker 1: though coach k is retiring, Duke is still favored to

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Speaker 1: win the n c Double A championship in as it

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Speaker 1: just so happened. So I'm wondering what your thoughts are.

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Speaker 1: You know, We've got the draft coming up on the

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Speaker 1: twenty three, there's a number of players that are eligible

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Speaker 1: that are probably going to go first round. You know,

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Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about the draft and what are

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Speaker 1: your thoughts about the team's prospects into next year. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I love that you told me that we're favored for

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Speaker 1: next year because they did not know that. We don't

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Speaker 1: pay attention to to those types of things. But it

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Speaker 1: excites me. And there's no wonder um why John Shire

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Speaker 1: recruited the number one recruiting class to come in for

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Speaker 1: this fall, um, and we've got the number one recruiting

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Speaker 1: class for the year after. So he's off to a

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Speaker 1: hot start, which is really exciting. Um, you know, relative

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Speaker 1: to the draft. Just so excited for our early entries.

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Speaker 1: We've got five student athletes, um that are hoping to

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Speaker 1: certainly believe that they will and and go high in

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Speaker 1: the draft. Um. You know, they've they've put themselves in

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Speaker 1: the position to be NBA draft picks with their work

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Speaker 1: ethic and commitment to excellence and passion for the game

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Speaker 1: of basketball. Obviously one of the reasons why they chose

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Speaker 1: to attend Duke and learn and play under coach k

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Speaker 1: Um because of his track record for for preparing young

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Speaker 1: whether they're number one or number two, UM, we're just

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Speaker 1: really excited for these young men because they are great

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Speaker 1: young men, um uh, you know, who will continue to

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Speaker 1: do great things in the league and so just excited

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Speaker 1: it's you know, the right fit for um them personally

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Speaker 1: as well as the organizations that select them. So I

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Speaker 1: have to ask, how has Duke the Blue Devils? How

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Speaker 1: has the administration coped with losing to U n C

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Speaker 1: then once again in the final four. I mean for

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Speaker 1: U n C. Tar Heel, that's obviously a point of pride,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just wondering, um what that meant for you guys. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's what a historic rivalry and

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Speaker 1: to have U n C B eight miles away from

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Speaker 1: from Juke University has certainly created, um uh some intensity

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Speaker 1: around the rivalry. I haven't tell you, guys, I had

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Speaker 1: my kids. I have two boys, nine and eleven, and

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Speaker 1: I had them with me at the final board when

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Speaker 1: we lost to Carolina, they were so upset and mainly

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Speaker 1: because they didn't want to go to school on Monday

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Speaker 1: because of the Carolina fans and their classes. UM. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's a healthy, fun rivalry and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know we we certainly cope with it, you know,

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Speaker 1: losing to them, um in the moment, it it certainly stinks. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it stings sometimes. And um, you know the way that

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Speaker 1: we lost, um uh in Coach K's final home game

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Speaker 1: in in camera and on Coach k court hurt, But

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Speaker 1: our student athletes responded, got our team to the final four.

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Speaker 1: And then you know a little bit of fate. We

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Speaker 1: had never played a U n c in in the

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Speaker 1: n c A tournament before and here we are meeting

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Speaker 1: them in the final four in in case last year. UM,

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Speaker 1: was was pretty cool and and you know we were

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Speaker 1: I guess said sad in the moment when it ended

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Speaker 1: and we locked to our our most intense rival. But

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Speaker 1: I'm just grateful to have been there, um and and

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Speaker 1: playing in the final four no matter who it was. Well, boy,

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Speaker 1: you you just heard it first, because that I've never

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Speaker 1: heard a nostril flare on the radio. Well, it happened, folks,

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Speaker 1: It happened right here on this show. I'm sorry. We're

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Speaker 1: talking with Nina King, vice president and director of Athletics

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Speaker 1: at Duke University. Will go straight ahead on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business of Sports. I'm Michael Barr. You can follow me

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Big Barr Sports. And I'm Scarlett Fool.

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Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Scarlett Fool. And

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Speaker 1: I'm Damien Sass how you can find me on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Deep Sass Hour. And don't forget. You can download

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Speaker 1: this show wherever you get your podcast, or just listen

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Speaker 1: right now as you're doing right here on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports Show. We talked with some of the biggest

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Speaker 1: names in the industry, and my kiding because we got

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Speaker 1: Nina King, vice president and director of Athletics at Duke University,

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Speaker 1: and we were talking earlier about at least five players

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Speaker 1: that could make it into the two NBA draft at

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Speaker 1: going with A. J. Griffin and Trevor Keels. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can go on. I mean, that's the thing about

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Speaker 1: Duke is that it's not like the school I went to,

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Speaker 1: you know, Carpentent University, where good luck, let's see if

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Speaker 1: I'm going to try to get somewhere. Duke University has

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Speaker 1: the name and it has always had the name for

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Speaker 1: many years. In the NBA Draft, absolutely, I mean, we

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Speaker 1: we're just so um excited for for these five, but

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Speaker 1: we've got a track record of UM men's basketball student

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Speaker 1: athletes going into the NBA drop and and being successful

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Speaker 1: and then ultimately playing in the NBA and doing great things.

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Speaker 1: UM Watching closely the NBA finals and cheering for our

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Speaker 1: former Duke student athletes is uh, they played there at

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Speaker 1: the highest level. And um, you know, just grateful to

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Speaker 1: coach k for what he's done to prepare these young

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Speaker 1: men to succeed in life after Duke. And that's really

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Speaker 1: what it's all about, Nina, As you know, it's not

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Speaker 1: all about athletics. In your role at university, you know,

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Speaker 1: you also teach a sports business course in Duke's NBA program.

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Speaker 1: You know, my question for you is, I've heard about

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Speaker 1: this class called building Global Audiences. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you're familiar with it. I don't know if it's part

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Speaker 1: of the NBA program at Duke, but it teaches influencing

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Speaker 1: via social media and apparently, like you've got kids, they're

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Speaker 1: creating videos, tick talking, you know, making five thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a hit. Is that you teaching that class? I am not,

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Speaker 1: because social media is really a tricky thing for me.

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Speaker 1: I don't get it. I don't understand it. I hardly

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Speaker 1: post so I'm certainly not teaching UM by any means. UM.

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Speaker 1: But you know, student athletes, they think what you're referring

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Speaker 1: to in terms of them getting five thousand dollars for

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Speaker 1: a post UM is our new n i L UM

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Speaker 1: rules rules around name, image and likeness and studenta ses

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Speaker 1: being able to profit um off of promoting themselves, which

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Speaker 1: I love. I think that n i L is a

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Speaker 1: great thing. Um. Student athletes should be able to learn

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Speaker 1: how to build their brand and promote their brand and

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Speaker 1: and make some money off of it. UM. You know

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Speaker 1: what what's happened though over the past year we kind

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Speaker 1: of walked into n i L being legal on July

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Speaker 1: one of last year, UM with no guidelines. No UM uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, uniform rules across all institutions. So we've got

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Speaker 1: a bunch of states that have state laws around n

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Speaker 1: I L. North Carolina is the state that does not

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Speaker 1: have state legislation, So each institution has left UH to

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Speaker 1: their own devices to create an institutional policy. So, as

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Speaker 1: you can imagine, we've got a bunch of different ones

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Speaker 1: just in North Carolina alone, UM, and we're all trying

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Speaker 1: to compete for the same championships with with you know,

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Speaker 1: different rules, UM, which makes it quite interesting for sure,

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Speaker 1: and so good for them for you know, to be

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Speaker 1: able to put themselves out there and and promote their

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Speaker 1: own personal brand. Yeah, it's it is unchartered territory though

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Speaker 1: for for many of the student athletes and for many

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Speaker 1: of the athletic departments that are now overseeing these student athletes.

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Speaker 1: Damian Michael and I were talking earlier about how we

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Speaker 1: meet so many impressive sports executives like yourself and UM.

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Speaker 1: One common threat is that you guys all have law degrees.

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Speaker 1: I guess that helps it in things like figuring out

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Speaker 1: policy on UM n I L and student athletes and

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Speaker 1: and UH endorsements and all that, But I'm curious why

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Speaker 1: it does that seem to be a prerequisite to getting

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Speaker 1: ahead in the business of sports, particularly at senior executive levels. Sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's so many legal issues surrounding what we do,

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Speaker 1: and so it's it's certainly beneficial as I sit in

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Speaker 1: this chair and have this leadership position to UM have

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Speaker 1: a foundational understanding of UM. You know, not just creating

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Speaker 1: policy around n I L but UM employment and labor issues. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, we we've got three and fifty employees here

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Speaker 1: in Duke Athletics and so UM. Prior to me being

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Speaker 1: UH the athletics director, I was deputy a d and

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Speaker 1: oversaw HR and so UM I leaned on my law

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Speaker 1: degree and in my background and experience a lot in

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Speaker 1: that position. UM. You know, we we've heard chatter and

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Speaker 1: saw several years ago where student athletes attempted to unionize UM.

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Speaker 1: And so just being familiar with UM labor relations and

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Speaker 1: and organizations is certainly helpful. UM. And then yeah, we

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Speaker 1: we are running a business. UM. We are trying to

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Speaker 1: make money here UM in in athletics so that we

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Speaker 1: can pay for these twenty seven programs to be successful

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Speaker 1: and provide resources for all of all of our programs. UM.

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Speaker 1: But we're encapsulated in academia and nonprofit entity institution UM.

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Speaker 1: And so just you know kind of understanding business and

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Speaker 1: and the legal aspects issues surrounding running this this business. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly certainly helpful. Stand by more of our interview

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Speaker 1: with Nina King, vice President and director of Athletics for

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Speaker 1: Duke University, that is straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports. And we will also talk about and I'll

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Speaker 1: give you a clue five cities I'm gonna mention Minneapolis, Dallas, Cleveland, Tampa, Florida,

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Speaker 1: and Phoenix. They all have something in common that's straight

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Speaker 1: ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. You can follow

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Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Big Bar Sports. I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Scarlett Fale and I'm on Twitter at and Do

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Speaker 1: Not Forget. You can download this show wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcast, or just listen as you're doing right now

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports

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Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Radio. Welcome back to the Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 1: Sports show. Or we explore some of the big money

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Speaker 1: issues in the world of sports, and we have some

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Speaker 1: of the top guests. I'm not kidding Nina King, vice

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Speaker 1: President and director of Athletics at Duke University, and you

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Speaker 1: know what I mentioned those five cities Minneapolis, Dallas, Cleveland, Tampa,

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Speaker 1: and Phoenix. And in case you didn't know, they are

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Speaker 1: the next five cities in that order where the they

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Speaker 1: will host the women's n c Double A Finals. And

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Speaker 1: it's the it's great, uh. And now there's a bid

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Speaker 1: starting for seven for the city's. How is that going? Nia?

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Speaker 1: It's really exciting, um, you know, to to be able

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Speaker 1: to select cities for UM the women's Final four and

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Speaker 1: elite women's basketball Championship. It's it's so much fun. And

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Speaker 1: we're in the middle of the process right now. To

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Speaker 1: me thinking about twenty seven through thirty one though it

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Speaker 1: seems so far off, but it'll get here faster than

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Speaker 1: we know. So, UM. Yeah, we just announced the finalist cities,

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Speaker 1: the group of cities that we're looking at to ultimately

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Speaker 1: award UM uh, those several final fours to UM. And

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Speaker 1: it's a it's an exciting process. We hear a lot

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Speaker 1: from the city's. We hear a lot about their commitment

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Speaker 1: to women's basketball and growing the game and fit and

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Speaker 1: the benefit of bringing the n c A championship to

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Speaker 1: their city. UM. And so we'll we'll hear presentations here

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Speaker 1: coming this fall. And UM make a decision on those

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Speaker 1: next set of cities here UM within the next year.

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Speaker 1: What is the best way for different cities to show

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Speaker 1: their commitment to growing the women's game versus the men's

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Speaker 1: games first and foremost coming into the committee room on

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Speaker 1: their presentation and talking about women's basketball UM and understanding

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Speaker 1: what it takes to be successful to host a women's

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Speaker 1: Final Four, which is a very different championship than the

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Speaker 1: men's Final Four. Not just about three basketball games that

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Speaker 1: take place in a in a host city. There's so

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Speaker 1: much more that goes around it for both the fan

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Speaker 1: uh and student athlete programming during a Final Four weekends.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's been really fun. This is the second

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Speaker 1: time during my time on the n c A Women's

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Speaker 1: Basketball Committee that I've been involved in the bid process

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Speaker 1: and it's a lot of fun. Nina King, vice President

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Speaker 1: and director of Athletics for Duke University. Nina, you were

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Speaker 1: so kind to take the time and talk with us.

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Speaker 1: Thank you again, thanks for having me. I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun with you guys. Take care of now,

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Speaker 1: and like we said, we've got a double billing for

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Speaker 1: the show. Our old friend Marty Etle, co chair of

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Speaker 1: Galston and stores sports law practice, also a professor of

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Speaker 1: law at Columbia University. Thank you so much, Marty for

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Speaker 1: joining us on the Bloomberg Business of sports. Michael Scarlett,

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Speaker 1: it's always a pleasure to be here with you. There

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Speaker 1: is a connection to Nina King for this. In part

430
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: of the interview that we're talking about, we're talking about

431
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: the n i L article by Bloomberg Laws Peter Hayes,

432
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: and part of that interview involves athletes. As you know,

433
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: they get the money from the name, image and likeness.

434
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: There's a Friend of the Court brief that makes the

435
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: point that if student athletes prevail in this one lawsuit

436
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: that they've had to get pay, that would lead to

437
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: colleges shutting down a lot of athletic programs. What do

438
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: you make of that argument? So to me, it's a

439
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: double edged sword. Um, there is some scaremongering in there,

440
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: uh that schools are not likely to get rid of

441
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: sports if that's a real attraction for students to come

442
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 1: to the university. But on the other hand, there are

443
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: certain economic realities. Uh. And since most sports, at least

444
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: at the collegiate level, are not revenue producing or our

445
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: revenue losers. Schools will have to look long and hard

446
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: if they have to pay student athletes compensation as wages

447
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: for participating in them. You know, using the example of

448
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: Duke twenty seven sports, you know, you're talking probably seven

449
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: hundred to a thousand students now having to be paid

450
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: something above a minimum wage under what's called the Fair

451
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: Labor Standards Act or f l s A. That's a

452
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: huge hit on the school budget. Has ni L been beneficial?

453
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: I mean, has been beneficial to the students getting the

454
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: n I L some students, but has it been beneficial

455
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: in general to college sports? So another great questions. Let

456
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: me differentiate, if I may, between n I L and

457
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: the claims under the f l s A or Fair

458
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: Labor Standards Act whether a student is an employee of

459
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: the university or not. That only goes through the amount

460
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: of wages a student may get, which can be significant.

461
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: By contrast, under current n I L, name, image and

462
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: likeness standards, the university is not a part of that

463
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: equation currently. So students are going to be hiring agents

464
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: and have hired agents to get endorsement deals, social influencing

465
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: deals and the like, and the schools really don't participate

466
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: in a very direct way at this time. That's under

467
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: the n c A A is amended constitution, and most

468
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: schools have taken a hands off approach. They're concerned, among

469
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: other things, what products or services are students endorsing? Are

470
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,959
Speaker 1: they antithetical to the nature or philosophy of the particular school.

471
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: Classic example, student endorses some type of gambling product or service.

472
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: School may have a policy against students gambling. How do

473
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: you reconcile that? Especially as a student says at the

474
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: beginning of the ad or terms of the text or tweet, Hi,

475
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: I'm Jane Row from school X. Well, now she's identified

476
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: herself as part of a school, and the school may

477
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: have a philosophy that doesn't endorse and actually precludes endorsement

478
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 1: of that particular product to services. Should college athletes be

479
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: in the advertising business as well. It's it's a conundrum

480
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: that I'm trying to figure out. I think the answer

481
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: here is we're still in the early stages. The boosters

482
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: and sponsors is a really interesting example which is now

483
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: getting much more play throughout the country. What is happening

484
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: is former boosters have now become investors in a what's

485
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: called a series of collectives or entities which can license

486
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: and I L rights from students, license degree of intellectual

487
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: property from the university, package those together and sub license

488
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: them to sponsors the middlemen. Then that's exactly right, and

489
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: maybe they make a profit on it, but it has

490
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: the advantage there of protecting the way in which athletes

491
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: might use their n I L rights to be consistent

492
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: with the university, since they're packaging it all together. So

493
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: it has benefits out there. And again we're seeing the

494
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: infant stages of that occurring. Marty Eedle, you are the

495
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: old friend of the show here, co chair Gulston and

496
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: Stores Sports Law Practice, also professor of law at Columbia University. Marty,

497
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: thank you, Sick, thank you for having it be a pleasure.

498
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: Scar are always great to talk to. Marty Edel, old

499
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: friend of the show here. And the thing about n

500
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: I L and I'll always wonder this car the point

501
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: of it was the colleges were in universities that were

502
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: making money off of the college athletes, the name, the image,

503
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: the likeness. You'd see some even video games. Sometimes you'd

504
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: see these guys on the video games, and you know,

505
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: people were saying, wait a minute, that's not fair. It's

506
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: one thing I guess if you if the athlete says, hey,

507
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: this is my jersey, my name, and I can make

508
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: money off of it, and then it gets totally complicated

509
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: when you start endorsing products. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean there's

510
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: a sense of, um, you shouldn't be making money off

511
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: of me. If anyone's going to make any money off

512
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: of me, it should be me. And there is that element.

513
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: What we were talking about with Marty kind of takes

514
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: it to another level, right, and that there was this

515
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: court ruling that dive one student athletes may be entitled

516
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: to pay, so they would then become employees of the schools,

517
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: not student athletes. And it just made me start to

518
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: think about how different a college experience would be if

519
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: you are an employ of the university and playing on

520
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: a team. I mean, you know, it's it's it's like

521
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: that box when you're on Facebook. It's complicated about the

522
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: relationship whatever it is. Well, that's what N I L

523
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: has become now. Yeah. Absolutely, But we're gonna see what's

524
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: gonna happen with N I L. H. They're gonna have

525
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: to work some things out, Scar, but I'm sure it's

526
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: gonna be a future. But well, this generation of student

527
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: athletes are are the guinea pigs? Really? Yeah, my Rosie pick,

528
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: that's I'm not in gream some kids. Feels better to

529
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: be than the one, than number five. I'll wear a

530
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: number because of Mike. We have a chance to go

531
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: for three in a row. Good numbers are a good time.

532
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: When I first started wearing the number, I would just

533
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: have been proud. Bloomberg Business of Sports, the number of

534
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: the week. It's time for the number of the week.

535
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: And see Scarletly you're already up on stage, so you

536
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: don't even have to worry about it. So what I'm

537
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: gonna do is I'm gonna as you. As I start

538
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: saying numbers, you tell them he win to stop. Oh okay, okay, okay,

539
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: all right, here we go, Ted Yankees pitch here. Marianna

540
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: Rivera has sold his home in New York's Westchester County.

541
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: Ok for this, I'm out. I can tell you this.

542
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: It's roughly one point two acres. House also has an office,

543
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: a billiards room, and a home theater. Has a Rye address. Ready, okay,

544
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: al right, here we go. We're gonna start the range

545
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: at two million. Two point one, two point two point three,

546
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: two point You want to stop at two point four

547
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: in rye right, let's go back to two point two.

548
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: You want to go back to two point two. Uh,

549
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: it was light up the board. It's sold for three

550
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: point seventy eight million dollars and that's a discount from

551
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: the five point seven he paid for in two thousand

552
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: and six. And he closed only a few days ago.

553
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: See he closed when it had turned south a little bit.

554
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: That's too bad. That's a lot of money too. I'm

555
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: sure he'll put that loss to to you somehow in

556
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: his in his many accounts. Well, don't worry about it.

557
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: We have some lovely parting gifts for you, Scarlette. Thank

558
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: you so much for playing. Oh god, this has been

559
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg business of sports me. We have talked to

560
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: some of the biggest players right here in the industry.

561
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: And of course you can catch our podcast every Monday,

562
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday. You can follow me on Twitter at

563
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: big Bar Sports and I'm on Twitter at Scarlett Foo

564
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: and of course you can follow this show wherever you

565
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: get your podcasts or do what you're doing right now

566
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: listening to us.