Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
Speaker 1: the world, it is so great to have you here
Speaker 1: back for another episode as we, of course break down
Speaker 1: the psychology of our twenties. If you can't already hear it, surprise, surprise,
Speaker 1: I am once again ill. I have a pretty nasty
Speaker 1: like cold slash chest infection, So I really apologize for
Speaker 1: my voice being very, very nasally. I just got back
Speaker 1: from a lot of travel, like three weeks in the
Speaker 1: United States and then traveling for a family birthday. It's
Speaker 1: obviously taken a little bit of a toll, but I'm
Speaker 1: on the up and up. I'm feeling better. I just
Speaker 1: want to say sorry, slash acknowledge that my voice is
Speaker 1: going to sound perhaps a little bit nasally in this episode.
Speaker 1: Hopefully by next Tuesday. I'm fully mended, and you guys
Speaker 1: don't have to bear with the sick voice for any
Speaker 1: much longer. But I really didn't want to skip this episode.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to skip this Friday's topic because we're
Speaker 1: talking about something I think is very near and dear
Speaker 1: to a lot of twenty something year olds navigating our
Speaker 1: careers in our twenties is tough. There are a lot
Speaker 1: of dead ends, a lot of moments where we feel incapable,
Speaker 1: We feel like we're falling behind. We can't get the
Speaker 1: promotion we want, let alone the job. And the thing
Speaker 1: that always makes it worse is seeing someone who is
Speaker 1: seemingly not struggling at all. They have the dream job,
Speaker 1: they have the career progression, the success, the accolades. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's not even someone that you know. It could be
Speaker 1: a celebrity, an influencer, someone you follow online. Regardless, we
Speaker 1: can't help but look at all that they have and
Speaker 1: feel not just envious, but pretty terrible about ourselves. It
Speaker 1: also probably elicits some thoughts like why not me, Like
Speaker 1: this is so unfair, they don't even deserve it, And
Speaker 1: with those thoughts comes a lot of shame, because we
Speaker 1: have been taught from an early age that jealousy is
Speaker 1: a so called ugly emotion and we should just be
Speaker 1: happy for others rather than bitter. I think anyone who
Speaker 1: has experienced career jealousy or jealousy of any form knows
Speaker 1: that that is not always a choice, and that is
Speaker 1: a very very lovely sentiment. To be happy for everyone
Speaker 1: at all times. But jealousy is just a part of life.
Speaker 1: It's hard, and it's sometimes miserable, but it's also not
Speaker 1: an emotion that we are going to let define us.
Speaker 1: We want to form a healthier relationship with it, especially
Speaker 1: in our twenties and especially when it comes to our
Speaker 1: professional lives. So today we are talking career jealousy in
Speaker 1: our twenties, why it happens, what it feels like, and
Speaker 1: most importantly, how to ensure it doesn't weigh you down.
Speaker 1: Because we have so much more to worry about in
Speaker 1: this life. What other people may or may not be doing,
Speaker 1: or may or may not have should not be added
Speaker 1: to that list. I really want to take us through,
Speaker 1: of course, the psychology of this experience, and I want
Speaker 1: to talk about my own personal struggle with this, because
Speaker 1: I'm going to be super vulnerable. This is something that,
Speaker 1: especially when I was in my early twenties, I think
Speaker 1: ended up hurting a lot of my relationships that I
Speaker 1: was quite jealous and I felt quite insecure about where
Speaker 1: I was heading. From those experiences, I hope and I
Speaker 1: do believe I've learned a lot, So hopefully you can
Speaker 1: learn from my mistakes and maybe take something from my wisdom,
Speaker 1: but I also want to talk about how this shows
Speaker 1: up between siblings, between even our bestest of friends, the
Speaker 1: role of self esteem, culture, even social media influences. There
Speaker 1: is a lot packed into this episode today. Hopefully it
Speaker 1: is an entire guide book. If you are struggling this
Speaker 1: in your life right now, Hope you know you're not alone.
Speaker 1: Hope you leave this episode not feeling too terrible about yourself,
Speaker 1: but also knowing how to manage this very complicated feeling.
Speaker 1: Without further ado, let us get into the psychology of
Speaker 1: career jealousy. So what is professional or career jealousy. Let's
Speaker 1: start with a nice, good old fashioned explanation. It's pretty simple.
Speaker 1: Career jealousy describes feeling envious, almost exclusively towards someone's professional
Speaker 1: life compared to your own, and seeing something in their
Speaker 1: life or professional success that you want or maybe even
Speaker 1: feel that you deserve. Let's be super super clear here,
Speaker 1: it is so much more common than you think. Jealousy
Speaker 1: in general is a very universal human emotion. Of course,
Speaker 1: about seven twenty percent of people pulled in a recent
Speaker 1: piece of research reported that they experienced jealousy at least
Speaker 1: once last year. And career jealousy is in fact one
Speaker 1: of the top ways that we experience this feeling, after
Speaker 1: firstly material jealousy and interpersonal jealousy, so feeling jealous of
Speaker 1: the relationships that someone has with someone else. Current estimates
Speaker 1: say that around twenty seven percent of people experience career
Speaker 1: jealousy in their lifetime, with that typically spiking at two
Speaker 1: different points in time. The first one, of course, is
Speaker 1: our twenties, and the second one is actually in our fifties.
Speaker 1: Of course, unsurprisingly, it is exceedingly common in our twenties,
Speaker 1: as I just said, and I would even say more
Speaker 1: so now in this generation compared to those who have
Speaker 1: come before. It's common in our twenties, I think because
Speaker 1: insecurity around just about everything is common in our twenties.
Speaker 1: It is such a general experience that we are all
Speaker 1: going to have to feel as if we have absolutely
Speaker 1: no clue what we're doing in almost all areas of
Speaker 1: our life, and so when we see someone who apparently
Speaker 1: does know what they're doing, it can be shocking and
Speaker 1: immediately elicit a sense of panic, like, wait, hold up
Speaker 1: a second, it must is it just me who's falling behind?
Speaker 1: Is there something I'm doing? Wrong. Is there something that
Speaker 1: no one is telling me that these people have somehow
Speaker 1: figured out? Now? If those thoughts aren't deliberately shut down
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, this can become a chronic thought pattern for us,
Speaker 1: and that obviously it takes a massive toll in our
Speaker 1: self esteem. It can also have us looking around for
Speaker 1: more evidence that we are indeed failures. So we start
Speaker 1: selectively searching or seeking out further examples of what we
Speaker 1: have now already tend to believe about ourself, that we're behind,
Speaker 1: that we don't know what we're doing, that we are
Speaker 1: the only ones. It's a very nasty trick that our
Speaker 1: mind plays on us. You probably know it by the
Speaker 1: term confirmation bias, the tendency to search for, interpret, favor,
Speaker 1: and recall information in a way that confirms our prior
Speaker 1: beliefs or values, including the mean beliefs that we have
Speaker 1: about ourselves that are just in no way helpful. Thinking
Speaker 1: of yourself as a failure is in no way helpful.
Speaker 1: But for anyone who has struggled with that, they know
Speaker 1: that that is not always the easiest thought pattern to break.
Speaker 1: If it has become ingrained by repeated instances of you
Speaker 1: thinking that that is the case. That kind of also
Speaker 1: means that you stop seeing or acknowledging the people who
Speaker 1: are struggling, the people who are unsure of what they
Speaker 1: want in their careers, who are unemployed, and you only
Speaker 1: unconsciously pay attention to the people who have it all together.
Speaker 1: So you end up having this very selectively skewed vision
Speaker 1: of people in their twenties and what professional success looks
Speaker 1: like for them. In general. This can also cause a
Speaker 1: lot of anger and resentment, because when you feel terrible
Speaker 1: about your circumstances, there are kind of only two alternative
Speaker 1: roots for your brain to take. You can either feel
Speaker 1: bad about yourself and believe that your circumstances reflect your
Speaker 1: character and your worth. That's option one. Or you can
Speaker 1: feel angry at the world, and you can feel angry
Speaker 1: at other people and say, well, you obviously don't deserve this.
Speaker 1: This is unfair. Like I said, it's very very nasty,
Speaker 1: and it's often subconscious or unconscious. Now, career jealousy is
Speaker 1: not a one dimensional thing. It's not just one big
Speaker 1: bucket of fear, insecurity, and frustration. I've come to realize
Speaker 1: that I think there are actually three forms of career jealousy. First,
Speaker 1: I think we can be jealous towards someone just for
Speaker 1: having a job. You know, like I said before, it's
Speaker 1: bloody tough out there. It is tough sometimes if you're
Speaker 1: in the trenches and one of your friends suddenly gets
Speaker 1: a great job whilst you've been working really hard and
Speaker 1: looking for way longer, it's very difficult not to resent
Speaker 1: them and resent your circumstances. Secondly, we can feel professional
Speaker 1: jealousy over someone else's sense of purpose. So it's not
Speaker 1: just that they have a job or they have a career,
Speaker 1: but they have something that they really care about, and
Speaker 1: who amongst us doesn't want that Having a purpose when
Speaker 1: it comes to our profession, I think turns a job
Speaker 1: into a career. Like a job is something that you
Speaker 1: can just do because it makes money, a career and
Speaker 1: even bigger than that, a mission is something that you
Speaker 1: are personally invested in and there's like a fire in
Speaker 1: your belly. From repeated psychology studies in this area that
Speaker 1: this sense of purpose is linked to increased life satisfaction
Speaker 1: and sometimes even life expectancy. So when you're in your
Speaker 1: twenties and it seems like everyone is slowly figuring out
Speaker 1: what they want to do, and you haven't figured it
Speaker 1: out yet, you can feel really really envious. I will say,
Speaker 1: I think the older we get, the more we realize
Speaker 1: that our profession or our career is not our primary
Speaker 1: sense of purpose in life. It's not the sole thing
Speaker 1: that can imbue your life with a sense of meaning.
Speaker 1: So I know, those statistics I just gave all like
Speaker 1: those findings seem kind of scary, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: are you telling me if I don't find my purpose,
Speaker 1: I'm going to die sooner? No, No, absolutely not. You
Speaker 1: have a lot of time to find your purpose. It's
Speaker 1: more that I think people struggle with thinking it's only
Speaker 1: going to come from a job. The people who are
Speaker 1: truly happy realize that it comes from more than just that.
Speaker 1: But sometimes career can fulfill that need early on in
Speaker 1: our lives before we've learned that lesson. Okay, Finally, the
Speaker 1: final kind of bucket of envy is envy towards someone's progress,
Speaker 1: success and the material things that they have been rewarded with.
Speaker 1: You know, the friend or the person online who you
Speaker 1: see and they are going on these amazing trips and
Speaker 1: they are suddenly buying nice clothes, nice dinners, winning awards,
Speaker 1: they've been promoted like three times before twenty five, they've
Speaker 1: bought a house from their job. These situations of material success,
Speaker 1: objective material wealth can serve as a very stark and
Speaker 1: a very tangible reminder of what we don't have. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this, of what we don't have yet.
Speaker 1: That's the other cruel part of career jealousy. All we
Speaker 1: can ever focus on is what we don't have right now,
Speaker 1: not what we've had in the past, not what we
Speaker 1: may have in the future, and we don't focus on
Speaker 1: what we actually don't want. You know, you might see
Speaker 1: someone who you're like immediately envious of. They're famous, they're successful.
Speaker 1: Immediately you're like, well, maybe I should be doing that.
Speaker 1: What you don't think is, you know, I probably don't
Speaker 1: actually want to be famous. I probably don't want to
Speaker 1: work one hundred hours a week. I probably don't want
Speaker 1: to live out of my suitcase. But it's this want
Speaker 1: what I can't have mindset and cherry picking all this
Speaker 1: situations and the selective parts of someone's story that make
Speaker 1: us feel miserable. Why does this happen? Because I think
Speaker 1: we can all agree that given how awful career jealousy
Speaker 1: feels it's not something that we are voluntarily opting into.
Speaker 1: Career jealousy, I think is on the rise for a
Speaker 1: couple of reasons. Firstly, I think the reason that we're
Speaker 1: experiencing it more is that we have just more opportunities
Speaker 1: to compare this day and age. Every single thing is
Speaker 1: public and online. There's a really fascinating research paper I
Speaker 1: found when I was researching this episode which explored envy
Speaker 1: towards social media influences in South Korea, and it found
Speaker 1: that our level of personal jealousy increases alongside our usage
Speaker 1: of social media. Now that might seem pretty obvious, but yeah,
Speaker 1: the more you are exposed to these perfect ideas of
Speaker 1: success that are very very present in this generation, the
Speaker 1: more we feel lacking. There is also, you know, literally
Speaker 1: a social media for our jobs, LinkedIn. I remember writing
Speaker 1: an article when I was back in university and it
Speaker 1: was titled like in hell they make you use LinkedIn,
Speaker 1: where I talked about how it's basically just another way
Speaker 1: to feel constantly behind. It's another example of appearances, and
Speaker 1: I think my opinion on it still stands when all
Speaker 1: you see of people's careers is the glossy outside, not
Speaker 1: the grueling inside. It's very easy to feel like you're
Speaker 1: missing out. The other reason that we might feel jealous
Speaker 1: is that career does just make up such a big
Speaker 1: part of our identity. It is, in fact one of
Speaker 1: what we call the big buckets of identity. So if
Speaker 1: you think about who you are, there are all these
Speaker 1: different areas where you can pour energy into that make
Speaker 1: you feel accomplished as a person and build upon your identity.
Speaker 1: So your relationships, your values, your family, your history, your career.
Speaker 1: Career is a big bucket. When something is that prominent
Speaker 1: in our lives, when you could be spending a third
Speaker 1: of your waking life in your job or working towards
Speaker 1: your career, of course your brain is going to want
Speaker 1: to make sure you're doing okay relative to others. Comparison
Speaker 1: in this way acts as a form of validation that
Speaker 1: we are doing okay. Our brain naturally goes to that place.
Speaker 1: It doesn't always realize that we're going to come up
Speaker 1: short in our own minds, so comparison is obviously a
Speaker 1: huge reason we experience career jealousy. There are two ways
Speaker 1: that we compare ourselves to others, upwards and downward. Social comparison.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard about this on an episode before
Speaker 1: upward social comparison. You're going to look at someone who
Speaker 1: is perhaps doing better than you and think, oh my gosh, wow,
Speaker 1: they're really amazing. I want that. Why don't I have that?
Speaker 1: You're looking upwards. You're comparing beyond what you are currently
Speaker 1: capable of. That can either relictit feelings of inspiration and
Speaker 1: motivation or despair. Then we have downward social comparison. Now,
Speaker 1: downward social comparison balances out upward social comparison by allowing
Speaker 1: you to look and observe people who you think aren't
Speaker 1: doing as well as you and experience a self esteem boost. Basically,
Speaker 1: you're saying, and it sounds really terrible, but this is
Speaker 1: genuinely what's going on in your mind. Well, at least
Speaker 1: you know I don't have it as bad as them.
Speaker 1: So which direction of comparison you will gravitate to in
Speaker 1: this situation often depends on your personality and your current
Speaker 1: emotional state and factors like resilience and self esteem. So
Speaker 1: for those of us with a high need for achievement
Speaker 1: and high levels of confidence, we typically gravitate towards upwards
Speaker 1: social comparison, specifically the kind that brings about admiration rather
Speaker 1: than feelings of insecurity. If you are someone who believes
Speaker 1: in yourself, who really wants to succeed, who believes they
Speaker 1: can succeed, you are not going to be threatened by
Speaker 1: someone doing better than you. You're going to use it
Speaker 1: as an asset. Now, if you are lacking self confidence,
Speaker 1: you feel less self assured, maybe you've seen your self
Speaker 1: esteem plummet recently, you are more likely to engage in
Speaker 1: downward social comparison as a deliberate form of comparison, but
Speaker 1: upward social comparison as a less deliberate for I'm going
Speaker 1: to explain that lots of words in that sentence. Essentially, intuitively,
Speaker 1: your brain is going to want you to compare to
Speaker 1: people who are doing so called worse than you because
Speaker 1: it makes you feel better. But actually what ends up
Speaker 1: happening is when you get into that comparison mindset, you
Speaker 1: can't help but kind of slowly move over into comparing
Speaker 1: yourself to people who are doing better than you. It's
Speaker 1: going to make you feel pretty terrible. Now, this might
Speaker 1: be an uncomfortable but pretty obvious truth. Your career, jealousy
Speaker 1: and comparison is probably also related to your current levels
Speaker 1: of insecurity, more specifically a greater fear of inadequacy that
Speaker 1: you might have, and this fear is a lot more
Speaker 1: common in individualistic societies. So individualistic societies are those in
Speaker 1: which we value personal wealth, that material success, things that
Speaker 1: make one person look very, very good. This is in
Speaker 1: comparison to collectivist societies or collectivist cultures, whereby the success
Speaker 1: of one person is everyone's win, so we are more
Speaker 1: likely to put effort into seeing the community succeed, into
Speaker 1: making sure every member of our family is succeeding, rather
Speaker 1: than just being focused on our own success. If you
Speaker 1: were raised in an individualistic society, so you know, if
Speaker 1: you're raised in the US, if you were raised in
Speaker 1: a lot of parts of Europe, if you were raised
Speaker 1: in Australia, in Canada, a lot of the times your
Speaker 1: main focus and what you have been taught to focus
Speaker 1: on is how well you are doing in comparison to others,
Speaker 1: not how well the group is doing. And so it
Speaker 1: does create this obsession with personal success, meaning that other
Speaker 1: individuals in your community, in your kind of social stratosphere,
Speaker 1: their success doesn't make you ever, it's never going to
Speaker 1: make you feel good the way that it wouldn't a
Speaker 1: collectivist culture. It's only going to make you feel terrible.
Speaker 1: So again, if you're sitting there feeling career jealousy, thinking,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I don't want to feel this way anymore.
Speaker 1: I feel so bad about it. I just want to
Speaker 1: be happy for my friend, for my sister, for my relative,
Speaker 1: for that person, my colleague. Often it's not your fault,
Speaker 1: it's how your brain has been trained. The other really
Speaker 1: insidious part of comparison that we haven't mentioned is comparison,
Speaker 1: specifically negative upward social comparison often continues even when you
Speaker 1: do find success. So there are a lot of examples
Speaker 1: of what we call the achievement treadmill, where people who
Speaker 1: have seemingly done it all, they are happy, successful, fulfilled,
Speaker 1: they're at the top of their game, they still feel
Speaker 1: like they could be doing better. They still feel like
Speaker 1: there is more to achieve, and so you are never
Speaker 1: happy with where you are. This is why we really
Speaker 1: really need to tackle this comparison cyclical comparison sickness almost
Speaker 1: early on in our lives, early on in our twenties,
Speaker 1: perhaps before you've found success, because otherwise, if you get
Speaker 1: into this mindset of I can always be doing better,
Speaker 1: I can always have more. That is also the mindset
Speaker 1: that is going to make you deeply, deeply unhappy. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about one final reason here as to
Speaker 1: why career jealousy is probably on the rise. We've talked
Speaker 1: about social media, we talked about how there's more room
Speaker 1: for comparison. Let's now just talk about the very nature
Speaker 1: of our professional environments right now or the job market.
Speaker 1: Simply put, the job market right now is so difficult.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of you have been experiencing this personally.
Speaker 1: You've been dming me saying, I just what am I
Speaker 1: doing wrong? Maybe like you've been looking for a job
Speaker 1: for months, nothing is coming your way. Eventually, when we're
Speaker 1: in that situation, we're going to start to think that
Speaker 1: something is wrong with us. But objectively, I want to
Speaker 1: tell you right now, job vacancies are declining, There is
Speaker 1: increased competition for a smaller number of positions. People are
Speaker 1: taking longer to hire people, and they are hiring less. Overall,
Speaker 1: AI has significantly shifted what kind of roles people are hiring.
Speaker 1: For all of this, to say, a big contributor to
Speaker 1: our psychological state is always going to be the environment
Speaker 1: in which we are in, and the environment in which
Speaker 1: we are in right now is not particularly conducive to
Speaker 1: feeling optimistic or happy about where you're at in your career. Now,
Speaker 1: if we're in this situation where a lot of us
Speaker 1: are struggling, and then suddenly there is this person who
Speaker 1: is not who will got the jackpot, who has figured
Speaker 1: it all out, of course we're going to feel envious.
Speaker 1: It's this primal instinct of ours kicking in saying how
Speaker 1: can we have that. It's very much born from the
Speaker 1: days when we could fight and steal for the better territory,
Speaker 1: we could fight and steal for the better piece of meat,
Speaker 1: for the position closest to the fire. Nowadays, we've been
Speaker 1: socialized to realize that, you know, you probably can't go
Speaker 1: up and wrestle with someone for their job at a
Speaker 1: big four firm. But those old parts of our brain
Speaker 1: that see something we want and immediately are trying to
Speaker 1: figure out either a how we can get it or
Speaker 1: b why we want it so much. It's still very
Speaker 1: much alife. So let's discuss some of the further unspoken
Speaker 1: consequences of this, but also what is the path for
Speaker 1: getting out of this professional jealousy rut and just being
Speaker 1: happy or at least proud of where we are now.
Speaker 1: All of that and so much more after this shortbreak.
Speaker 1: So we're talking about career jealous see, and yes, it
Speaker 1: can feel like frustration. It can feel very shameful and ugly.
Speaker 1: It can feel like secretly wanting someone to fail, which
Speaker 1: we never want to feel like makes us feel like
Speaker 1: a terrible human. Here's what else can happen. I think
Speaker 1: the two most common manifestations of envy are disparagement and distancing,
Speaker 1: specifically in relation to our social relationships. You begin to
Speaker 1: resent your friends, you resent your colleagues even and you
Speaker 1: act out in a bitter and annoyed way. Comparing to
Speaker 1: strangers is one thing, and I think the consequences of
Speaker 1: that are very isolated. They're very much individual for us.
Speaker 1: But comparing to peers, let alone close friends, is when
Speaker 1: we really start seeing interpersonal consequences. So I'm talking drama, tension, fighting,
Speaker 1: distancing between us and our friends. Honestly, though, you are
Speaker 1: more likely to feel jealous of a friend than a stranger.
Speaker 1: It's why it is so common. So there was a
Speaker 1: two thousand and five Dean study that found yes, we
Speaker 1: are more likely to feel envy when the person we
Speaker 1: are comparing ourself to is a similar age, the same gender,
Speaker 1: has similar values or even physical similarities to us, because
Speaker 1: it just gives more of a stark contrast to what
Speaker 1: we don't have. This person is a similar age, this
Speaker 1: person is our friend, this person maybe went to the
Speaker 1: same university. So much about our situations are similar. So
Speaker 1: what is it that we don't have in common that
Speaker 1: is setting our experiences apart? When someone is like us
Speaker 1: in many ways, it can further highlight what we are
Speaker 1: lacking and make us feel really terrible. I received this
Speaker 1: message from someone actually that I think describes this very
Speaker 1: very well. She said, something I've been struggling with is
Speaker 1: my best friend and roommate recently landed her dream job,
Speaker 1: and it's all she talks about rightfully, so, but I'm
Speaker 1: struggling so much with my hatred of my current job.
Speaker 1: How can I be more enthusias I honestly, I could
Speaker 1: have written this myself because I was once in your shoes.
Speaker 1: I literally it was my best friend and my roommate
Speaker 1: got their dream job in the firm that I wanted
Speaker 1: a job in, and I didn't get any bites. Basically,
Speaker 1: I was unemployed for the summer, and I'm gonna admit it,
Speaker 1: I did entirely the wrong thing. Because I was so insecure,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to talk to her about it. I
Speaker 1: shut her out. I distanced myself because her happiness. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it made me feel bad about myself, not because I
Speaker 1: didn't want her to be happy, but because I wish
Speaker 1: that I could be happy with her, And the only
Speaker 1: way I saw that happening was if we were having
Speaker 1: the same experience. My biggest piece of advice in that
Speaker 1: situation and what I wish I had done. I wish
Speaker 1: I had just told her. I wish I had just said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm I am really trying to be happy for you,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that if I was in your if
Speaker 1: our roles were reversed, you would be so much better
Speaker 1: at this than I am. But just given how horrible
Speaker 1: I feel right now, I just can't be there with you.
Speaker 1: I just can't match this level of enthusiasm. So I
Speaker 1: really think we should just have some time to talk
Speaker 1: about other things before we talk about work. Can we
Speaker 1: please talk about something that we have in common? Can
Speaker 1: we talk about something can we have more shared experiences
Speaker 1: so we can go off and talk about those things together.
Speaker 1: My other piece of advice is to be curious, to
Speaker 1: be open, to want to learn, rather than judge yourself
Speaker 1: for what you don't have, and just addressing it before
Speaker 1: you spiral is essential. You know, I always promote repair
Speaker 1: and honesty in these situations. It does feel more difficult,
Speaker 1: but it is one hundred percent the path that you
Speaker 1: never regret, because you will regret looking back in five
Speaker 1: years time and saying, Wow, that is my best friend.
Speaker 1: That was my best friend. I really cared about her.
Speaker 1: How come we don't speak anymore? Oh? Oh, it's because
Speaker 1: I just didn't speak up and say something. Please please
Speaker 1: take it from me. Another unspoken consequence of career jealousy
Speaker 1: is that you end up losing motivation and you become
Speaker 1: quite discouraged. Jealousy is this weird thing where because we
Speaker 1: are only focusing on other people, we actually lose focus
Speaker 1: on our own performance and we start to neglect our
Speaker 1: own efforts to be better. Specifically, we start to focus
Speaker 1: on external factors for our lack of success in someone
Speaker 1: else's success. Typically, that comes down to things like fairness,
Speaker 1: things like luck, things that we can't control. So essentially,
Speaker 1: what happens when we focus too much on what we
Speaker 1: don't have in comparison to someone else is that we
Speaker 1: start shifting from an internal to an external locus of control.
Speaker 1: So this is a psychology term. Essentially, it refers to
Speaker 1: how we view our problems and our ability to change
Speaker 1: an outcome or to change a situation. So an internal
Speaker 1: locus of control, you believe that you are the master
Speaker 1: of your own destiny, you are the guiter of your fate.
Speaker 1: There are actions that you can take to change what
Speaker 1: your life looks like, and you feel willing to take them.
Speaker 1: An external locus of control is where you look at
Speaker 1: your circumstances and you put it all down to factors
Speaker 1: that you can't do anything about. So factors like luck,
Speaker 1: factors like fate, factors like I don't know status, money,
Speaker 1: where you were raised, you know who you were born
Speaker 1: as those factors do play a role, and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to deny it. But when we only focus on those,
Speaker 1: those are things we can't change, and so our circumstances
Speaker 1: is something that we can't change. I need you to
Speaker 1: please stop focusing on the unfairness or the role of
Speaker 1: luck and start focusing on action. What can you do
Speaker 1: in this situation? I will say, you are allowed to
Speaker 1: feel kind of bad every now and again. You are
Speaker 1: allowed to feel frustrated. Don't suppress those emotions entirely, but
Speaker 1: treat it as an indulgence. Treat it as a treat
Speaker 1: rather than the whole meal. And when you realize that
Speaker 1: you have been stuck in a pity spiral for too long,
Speaker 1: I need you to turn around and say, Okay, we
Speaker 1: need to do more in the opposite direction. We need
Speaker 1: to do more towards our goal rather than towards despair. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's talk about how to handle and manage career jealousy.
Speaker 1: I had this weird epiphany at the gym the other day.
Speaker 1: I was running on the treadmill. And at my gym,
Speaker 1: treadmills are set up so it's like two rows. So
Speaker 1: when you're on a treadmill, there is someone directly in
Speaker 1: front of you, or there is a treadmill directly in
Speaker 1: front of you, and there is someone probably running on
Speaker 1: that treadmill during the busy times. And I was going
Speaker 1: not very fast. I was obviously I'm recovering still in
Speaker 1: an illness, and I was watching this girl in front
Speaker 1: of me, and oh my lord, she was quick. She
Speaker 1: was doing eleven kilometers an hour at like a five
Speaker 1: percent incline or like a five point zero incline. And
Speaker 1: I was watching her, and I was watching like the
Speaker 1: kilometers tick up and whatever. And I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I need to catch her. I need to
Speaker 1: catch her. And I was like, wait, I'm wan an
Speaker 1: entirely different treadmill. What am I gonna go do? Run
Speaker 1: on her treadmill with her? Like I can match her pace,
Speaker 1: I can do everything that she is doing. We are
Speaker 1: still running our own race. When you compare your career
Speaker 1: to someone else's career, you are comparing two people running
Speaker 1: on two different treadmills. There is no way that you
Speaker 1: can catch up with them, but you do need to
Speaker 1: focus on your own race. I don't know. I was
Speaker 1: just in that situation and I was like, wow, this
Speaker 1: has just made me rethink every time I've tried to
Speaker 1: feel like I need to beat or best someone for
Speaker 1: whatever weird reason, my brain is cooked up. I also
Speaker 1: want to remind you, and this is specifically advised for
Speaker 1: those of us in our twenties, which I'm assuming is
Speaker 1: a lot of you. You are comparing the very beginning
Speaker 1: of your race. You know, there are so many years
Speaker 1: to come, so many peaks and plateaus that everyone's career
Speaker 1: will naturally go through. No one's career is always going
Speaker 1: to be on the up and up. There will be
Speaker 1: times where they're not motivated, where you get made redundant,
Speaker 1: where the culture and the environment shifts. But what we're
Speaker 1: doing is we're looking at what possibly only the first
Speaker 1: ten years maximum of our career and thinking this defines
Speaker 1: the entire race, This defines all of my circumstances from
Speaker 1: here until I retire. That is totally not true. How
Speaker 1: someone's beginning looks is not always indicative of how their
Speaker 1: middle or their end will end up. Just think about
Speaker 1: Olympic races or sports games. Even then, like our career
Speaker 1: is a lot longer than a two hundred meter sprint,
Speaker 1: it's a lot longer than a two hour ballgame. It's
Speaker 1: for a lot of us, the majority of our lives.
Speaker 1: So there are going to be peaks and troughs. What
Speaker 1: you're comparing right now is just the beginning. With all
Speaker 1: that being said, I do think it's almost impossible to
Speaker 1: will yourself out of feeling envy because it is quite
Speaker 1: a spontaneous emotion, right, so it's not an emotion that
Speaker 1: we can call on and then get rid of at
Speaker 1: our will. It often comes when our guard is down.
Speaker 1: But I think to keep chronic and acute envy at bay,
Speaker 1: you have to accept the discomfort, but refuse to give
Speaker 1: in to the shame that often follows. I think to
Speaker 1: keep comparison, specifically professional comparison, from becoming self defeating, I
Speaker 1: want you to really explore why it is that you
Speaker 1: feel so jealous. I want you to get curious about
Speaker 1: what has triggered this feeling for you now. At times,
Speaker 1: career jealous is actually an asset because it can spur
Speaker 1: on admiration and therefore inspiration. Alongside envy, Career jealousy is
Speaker 1: actually telling you something pretty important about what you want.
Speaker 1: If this person had a life that you didn't care about,
Speaker 1: if you didn't secretly want what they had, you would
Speaker 1: not be feeling jealous. You only feel jealous because you
Speaker 1: feel invested in that situation, and the reason you feel
Speaker 1: invested or emotional about it is because it is something
Speaker 1: that you desire, and so in that way, our jealousy
Speaker 1: is a great way of providing us with direction. I
Speaker 1: heard someone say this the other day, and what they
Speaker 1: said was, if you're ever struggling to know what you
Speaker 1: want from life, if you're ever struggling with direction, ask yourself,
Speaker 1: whose life am I most jealous of? Isn't that so funny? Like?
Speaker 1: What is a painful emotion is actually a really important
Speaker 1: one because it can reveal all of these parts of you,
Speaker 1: all these things and these ambitions that you secretly have.
Speaker 1: So I want you to reframe jealousy has proof of
Speaker 1: what you want. And I also want you to reframe
Speaker 1: jealousy as proof that you can get there, because the
Speaker 1: only reason you're feeling envious is because someone has done
Speaker 1: what you want to do. So they've done it. This
Speaker 1: is really essential because then what we have here is
Speaker 1: admiration and motivation rather than just jealousy. So once you
Speaker 1: have thought about the person that you are most jealous of,
Speaker 1: you now have to realize, actually, they are probably also
Speaker 1: going to be the person that I admire the most.
Speaker 1: Now you can do a bit of a reverse psychological
Speaker 1: engineering exercise. What I mean by that is I want
Speaker 1: you to get more curious about their life, what specific behaviors, habits,
Speaker 1: or strategies are they using. What are they doing that
Speaker 1: you are perhaps not that you can realistically apply to
Speaker 1: your own career. What path did they take, What knowledge
Speaker 1: do you think they have, what kind of wisdom? Essentially,
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is, please, please please lean in, move towards,
Speaker 1: not away from, those that you envy. Now, if you're
Speaker 1: finding that particularly difficult, there's evidence that doing small favors
Speaker 1: for someone that you envy can actually make you like
Speaker 1: them more so. This is called the Ben Franklin effect.
Speaker 1: If someone's success is really almost hurting you emotionally, ask
Speaker 1: them for advice, Ask them if you can get involved
Speaker 1: in their project, Ask them if you can study with them,
Speaker 1: Ask them to sit down for a coffee with you
Speaker 1: and shout them the coffee. Now, this really flips our
Speaker 1: brain's perception the people we envy, they're an ally not
Speaker 1: a threat. Now to kind of focus on you, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of this has been about what we can
Speaker 1: do to change our real relationship to others. What can
Speaker 1: we do internally for ourselves. I want you to make
Speaker 1: a list of everything that you feel that you are
Speaker 1: proud of and that you are good at that has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with your professional career or your job.
Speaker 1: I want you to work on focusing on the areas
Speaker 1: where you are excelling, even if externally and in an
Speaker 1: individualistic society, those things aren't as celebrated. So let's go
Speaker 1: through a couple. You know, maybe you're training for a
Speaker 1: long distance run. Maybe you go to the gym every
Speaker 1: single day. That's something that not a lot of people
Speaker 1: can say they do. Maybe you commit time to your hobbies.
Speaker 1: I would be really, really proud if I read five
Speaker 1: pages before bed every night. Maybe you call your Grandma
Speaker 1: more than the average person. I want you to feel
Speaker 1: proud of something, and I want you to focus on
Speaker 1: your assets and what you are good at. There are
Speaker 1: so many important psychological studies that show feeling proud of
Speaker 1: yourself is endlessly correlated to high self esteem and fewer
Speaker 1: feelings of jealousy. And the other part about self pride
Speaker 1: is that it's often self determined. Now we're not talking
Speaker 1: about arrogance. We're talking about genuine pride in your accomplishment.
Speaker 1: That is something that if you find every single one
Speaker 1: of us, every single one of us can find something
Speaker 1: that we deserve to be proud of. Really, I think
Speaker 1: this whole idea of turning inward is so important here.
Speaker 1: Stop looking externally for proof that you're doing okay, and
Speaker 1: start measuring your value by how fulfilled you feel, even
Speaker 1: if others don't see value in what you're doing, how
Speaker 1: happy you make others feel, how purposeful you are, how
Speaker 1: genuinely happy you can say your days are the progress
Speaker 1: that you're making in your own small ways. Taking more
Speaker 1: time as well to figure out what you want, taking
Speaker 1: more time to find the perfect job or just to
Speaker 1: find some kind of path. That's also an asset for you,
Speaker 1: because you're not tying yourself down or flinging yourself onto
Speaker 1: a moving train too early in your life with no
Speaker 1: way of getting off. So I do actually think that's
Speaker 1: really really important. Sometimes we see these people and they're
Speaker 1: like wonder kins, right like they're twenty one, twenty two
Speaker 1: doing these amazing, amazing things. There's a line from a
Speaker 1: song that says, I'm always terrified of elevators that rise
Speaker 1: too fast they never last. And a lot of people
Speaker 1: who are in those situations will tell you that around
Speaker 1: the age of thirty or thirty five, they really have
Speaker 1: to battle some of the real existential questions about deeper
Speaker 1: personal meaning that you're probably managing right now. So my
Speaker 1: final tip is to engage in some kind of mental
Speaker 1: time travel. There's this brilliant study in psychological science that
Speaker 1: found imagining yourself ten years into the future actually really
Speaker 1: helps reduce the intensity of current emotional struggles jealousy, envy,
Speaker 1: frustration included. So I want you to ask yourself right now,
Speaker 1: will I care about this in ten years? What advice
Speaker 1: would my future self give me about this moment? If
Speaker 1: everything works out well, if I focus on myself, what
Speaker 1: is the version of me in ten years going to
Speaker 1: be most proud of me that I did. I think
Speaker 1: this really helps dampen the jealousy response and it keeps
Speaker 1: you having that forward focused vision for yourself. Okay, we're
Speaker 1: going to take a short break, but when we return,
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk some final reminders and also introduce
Speaker 1: you to some listener questions about this topic. Stay with us, So,
Speaker 1: my lovely listeners, this is a brand new segment of
Speaker 1: the show, the very first of its kind that I'm
Speaker 1: trialing out, and it's a little Q and A section.
Speaker 1: So what I was finding was that after I was
Speaker 1: releasing episodes, a lot of you were saying Hey, you
Speaker 1: didn't talk about this, and this is really what I
Speaker 1: needed advice, and I thought, you know what, I think
Speaker 1: that we can bring this in. I think that we
Speaker 1: can bring in some of your questions so that I
Speaker 1: can answer them right now, right here on the spot. Now,
Speaker 1: given that this is a new part of the episode,
Speaker 1: I really do want feedback. If all of you come
Speaker 1: back and say to me, hey, we actually hate this,
Speaker 1: it's going away. This is just as much your show
Speaker 1: as it is mine. But I just thought it would
Speaker 1: be fun to give it a go. I'm going to
Speaker 1: try it for the next four episodes, and after I've
Speaker 1: done it for four episodes, I'm going to ask you
Speaker 1: guys all again, what do you think? Do you like it?
Speaker 1: And depending on what you say will determine its future,
Speaker 1: So please provide all the feedback that you want. But
Speaker 1: let's get into the questions now. The first question I
Speaker 1: got was how does career jealousy and anxiety arise in
Speaker 1: siblings and how do you manage it? Honestly, I think
Speaker 1: the career jealousy between siblings is a lot more common
Speaker 1: than you may think, because there is, of course a
Speaker 1: nate familial comparison. There's also all these family archetypes that
Speaker 1: we tend to fall into, right, the golden child, the
Speaker 1: black sheep, the underachiever, the overachiever, and they really contribute
Speaker 1: to this sense of needing to prove yourself, particularly in
Speaker 1: comparison to a sibling. Now, we also talked about how
Speaker 1: we compare ourselves to people who are most or more
Speaker 1: similar to us, specifically friends. Well, let's talk about siblings
Speaker 1: for a second. Like, you share some of the very
Speaker 1: same genes, you often share parents, you share a childhood environment,
Speaker 1: so there's all those differences between you do feel particularly pronounced. Also,
Speaker 1: you know, I've seen so many situations where parents often
Speaker 1: you know, it's terrible to say, but they do favor
Speaker 1: one child and they do really focus on their success.
Speaker 1: You see it a lot with child actors, actually child
Speaker 1: actresses or actors who their parents put so much into them,
Speaker 1: and then the other children are kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well what about me. Just because my goals and my
Speaker 1: dreams are different and my success looks different based on
Speaker 1: the industry that we're in, doesn't mean it's any less important.
Speaker 1: So I think those are the circumstances that we're kind
Speaker 1: of dealing with here. Innate competition in families archetypes that
Speaker 1: we tend to fall into, or roles we fall into.
Speaker 1: What I really want you to do is realize that
Speaker 1: a win for them is your win as well, no
Speaker 1: matter how much you have been conditioned to see them
Speaker 1: as competition. Seriously, is that mentality hurting or helping your relationship?
Speaker 1: Sibling relationships are oh my god, so underrated, so underrated.
Speaker 1: They are so important, they are so special. They are
Speaker 1: the people who will hopefully be with you for so
Speaker 1: much of your life. And if you have been raised
Speaker 1: to be in competition, I think it does get to
Speaker 1: a point where you have to seriously look at each
Speaker 1: other and say, I don't want to be have relationship
Speaker 1: with you anymore. Like this is not helping us. So
Speaker 1: fight back against that natural instinct. Take interest in their life,
Speaker 1: invest mentally, invest your curiosity in their life, and also
Speaker 1: talk about it with them. You know, if you can't
Speaker 1: talk about your insecurities with your sibling, who are you
Speaker 1: going to talk about it with? Oftentimes they are so forgiving,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be surprised if your eldest or youngest
Speaker 1: sibling who you naturally compare yourself with doesn't turn around
Speaker 1: and say, oh my god, I do the exact same thing,
Speaker 1: because this is how we've been raised, this is who
Speaker 1: we have been raised to be competitors rather than friends.
Speaker 1: So that's my advice for that question. Our second question
Speaker 1: from another Lovely listener, how to navigate the scarcity mindset
Speaker 1: in particular that contributes to career jealousy. So, for those
Speaker 1: of you not familiar with this term, the scarcity mindset
Speaker 1: is basically it's a combinative fallacy in which we believe
Speaker 1: that resources including financial resources, emotional resources, social resources, jobs,
Speaker 1: are limited, and so we end up becoming preoccupied with
Speaker 1: what we lack rather than what we have, and we
Speaker 1: get into this mindset that there is not enough out
Speaker 1: there in this world for us to have what we want.
Speaker 1: I want to remind you here, success is not a
Speaker 1: finite resource that has an end. There's always room for
Speaker 1: another famous celebrity. There's always room for a new pop star.
Speaker 1: There is not only so much to go around, there
Speaker 1: is room for you, and I need you to know
Speaker 1: that otherwise I do think you'll begin to see someone
Speaker 1: else's advancement as costing you your own, and so you're
Speaker 1: never able to have that real kinship and ally mentorship
Speaker 1: relationship with other people, and you'll get into this them
Speaker 1: versus me mindset, which you know, I actually really understand.
Speaker 1: I've fallen in to it a lot of times. It
Speaker 1: comes from this idea that what we want is lacking
Speaker 1: in the world and there's only room for a couple
Speaker 1: of people. You know. It's based on this mindset. Of course,
Speaker 1: if I get the job, someone else loses theirs. If
Speaker 1: my friend is successful, well I can't be until they're not.
Speaker 1: It's very, very untrue. My biggest piece of advice is
Speaker 1: to work really hard to undo this mindset. Keep applying
Speaker 1: for jobs, keep your options open, volunteer, search for opportunities
Speaker 1: in as many areas as you possibly can. And remember
Speaker 1: that your success, just because it's not happening right now,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that it's never going to happen. Your dream job,
Speaker 1: your dream career, your big break, it might not even
Speaker 1: exist yet. It might not even you know, all the
Speaker 1: dominoes may not even be aligned to bring it into existence. Yet.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that where you are now is where
Speaker 1: you will always be. There is definitely room for you
Speaker 1: at any tape that you want to sit on sit at.
Speaker 1: I guess even if you need to carve that space
Speaker 1: out over time for yourself. All right, let's talk about
Speaker 1: this next question. Why does it feel like sometimes it's
Speaker 1: up to luck and not meritocracy? So meritocracy based on
Speaker 1: merit it basically suggests that if you work hard enough,
Speaker 1: there is something that you should be entitled to. I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you something that I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people probably deserve to be told earlier. And I'm
Speaker 1: very sorry if it's upsetting, but really, sometimes things are
Speaker 1: just up to luck. A small part of everything is
Speaker 1: luck right place, right time. They just happen to choose
Speaker 1: or make the right decision at the perfect moment when
Speaker 1: it worked out for them. I know it's really really rough,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it's kind of unfair that we've
Speaker 1: all been sold this idea that, yes, if you work hard,
Speaker 1: there's something that you are innately deserving of. There's so
Speaker 1: many more factors at play. Here's the good news, though
Speaker 1: luck is not a finite thing. Just like success, there
Speaker 1: is actually heaps of luck to go around, and luck
Speaker 1: also turns luck is this tricky little thing where we
Speaker 1: are so so focused on what it feels like to
Speaker 1: not have it that actually when we do are rewarded
Speaker 1: with it, and when the luck does come our way,
Speaker 1: we kind of almost don't see it. We're only focused
Speaker 1: on the moments when it's not ours. Really, I always
Speaker 1: think about my like I think I was like my
Speaker 1: eighth grade math teacher. Her name is miss mary Anne,
Speaker 1: I think mary Anne something, and she always said luck
Speaker 1: is when preparation meets opportunity. So you may not have
Speaker 1: the opportunity part yet, but you can work on the
Speaker 1: preparation part so that when everything aligns and it's your moment,
Speaker 1: you are there to take it. So our final listener
Speaker 1: question from the day is about the third type of
Speaker 1: career jealousy that we experience. If you remember we have
Speaker 1: three categories. The third type is material jealousy. So this
Speaker 1: person says, my friends are paid four times more than me.
Speaker 1: I feel left out of their lavish lifestyles. What can
Speaker 1: I do? Let me just say that is rough. It's
Speaker 1: really rough when it feels like your friends are entering
Speaker 1: this entirely new financial chapter of their life and you
Speaker 1: are stuck in the past. What I really want you
Speaker 1: to do is to open communication with them. Hopefully money
Speaker 1: hasn't changed their mindset and money hasn't changed their opinion
Speaker 1: on you. I'm going to give them the benefit of
Speaker 1: the doubt and say that it hasn't, and so I'm
Speaker 1: assuming they still very much love you. They desire your company,
Speaker 1: they want your company. I really want you to just
Speaker 1: discuss with them opportunities to do things that are less
Speaker 1: expensive and that are more affordable, and that maybe don't
Speaker 1: include four course meals and don't include luxury spending, but
Speaker 1: are simple. Honestly, I feel like I've had conversations with
Speaker 1: friends like this before, where I've been like, hey, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I can't come to your birthday dinner, but
Speaker 1: I would love to do this smaller thing with you.
Speaker 1: Or someone said, hey, I can't afford to contribute to
Speaker 1: this gift, or I can't afford to go on this trip,
Speaker 1: but I want to still be involved in some way.
Speaker 1: A good friend will be receptive of that. I also,
Speaker 1: I want to give you a really really strong piece
Speaker 1: of advice here. Please do not try and match their spending.
Speaker 1: I'm not a financial advisor, obviously, but I've seen people
Speaker 1: do this. I remember reading an article about someone who
Speaker 1: got into a significant amount of debt trying to keep
Speaker 1: up with their friends' lifestyle. If they are your friends,
Speaker 1: you don't need to impress them. And doing things just
Speaker 1: for appearances rather than meeting your actual needs and spending
Speaker 1: money where you feel it's purpose is a very dangerous
Speaker 1: game to play, and I wouldn't want to see you
Speaker 1: get into debt or into trouble because you feel like
Speaker 1: you need to impress your friends. If they're the people
Speaker 1: who need to be impressed, they're probably not your friends.
Speaker 1: So obviously I don't have all the full information, but
Speaker 1: I would really just say have a chat with them
Speaker 1: about it. Don't excessively spend money, and if you feel
Speaker 1: like their priorities have changed beyond well because of the money,
Speaker 1: maybe start considering whether your priorities towards friendship should change
Speaker 1: as well. Okay, my lovely listeners, thank you for joining
Speaker 1: me for this new segment. As always, please let me
Speaker 1: know what you think of this. Also, what I'll be
Speaker 1: doing is I'll be putting up the questions three to
Speaker 1: four days in advance on Instagram. So if you want
Speaker 1: to get involved in these questions, you want to be
Speaker 1: able to contribute to episodes, please follow me over there.
Speaker 1: It's at that psychology podcast. And also I love hearing feedback.
Speaker 1: I love hearing episodes suggestions from your Really do have
Speaker 1: such a beautiful community, So come on over, get involved,
Speaker 1: and if you're already there, well say hello. I'll see
Speaker 1: you over there. Make sure that you are following along
Speaker 1: with the podcast so you know when new episodes go live,
Speaker 1: and leave a five star review if you feel called
Speaker 1: to do so, or share this episode with a friend
Speaker 1: who feel like might be struggling with a lot of
Speaker 1: career jealousy. Trust me, a lot of us are in
Speaker 1: the same boat. This is a no shame zone. Hopefully
Speaker 1: you have been able to learn how to better naviget
Speaker 1: these feelings or at least reframe your thoughts towards your jealousy.
Speaker 1: As a reminder, as we end this episode, please be safe,
Speaker 1: be kind, be gentle with yourself, and we will talk
Speaker 1: very very soon,