1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: The Action Network Podcast podcastcast. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the Action Network Podcast. I'm Action 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: Audio Director Matt Mitchell. Today, I'm delighted to present to 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: you a special interview edition of the show, conducted earlier 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: this month in downtown Las Vegas by our own Darren Ravel. 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 2: The subject of this interview is Billy Walters, the most 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: influential man in sports that most people have never heard of. 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: Revered like Tom Brady, feared like Michael Jordan, Billy Walters 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: built an empire in the shadows, winning and losing and 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: winning back fortunes several times over. Billy Walters didn't invent 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: sports betting, but he propelled it into the modern age, 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: combining a wild West attitude and a banker's brain to 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: forge an industry today worth hundreds of billions of dollars. 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: Even after a recent stint in prison, Billy, known as 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: mister Walters to even the most hard gamblers, is the 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: most dominant force in a world fueled by ego, money 17 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: and iconoclasts. And in that world, no one bad mounts 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 2: mister Walters. During a decade's long career in sports betting, 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: Billy Walters kept an exceedingly low profile, with two notable exceptions, 20 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: The first a twenty eleven interview he granted to sixty minutes. 21 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: The second his twenty seventeen trial on insider trading charges 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: in a case involving famous golfer Phil Mickelson that led 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: to a year's long prison term for Walters before presidential 24 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: pardon led to his release at the age of seventy four. Darren, 25 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: we'll touch on both of these situations in this wide 26 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: ranging interview Billy walters highly anticipated new book, Gambler Secrets 27 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: from a Life at Risk comes out this week. So 28 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: without further ado, please enjoy this edition of the Action 29 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: Network podcast. 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: So you're seventy one and you go to prison. What 31 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: was that like? 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 3: It wasn't good. I walked into federal prison. I was 33 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 3: seventy one years old, and although I visited people in prison, 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: but it was a shocker. 35 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: And it seemed like they on the outside they called 36 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: it a country club, But it wasn't the country clubs 37 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: that you had been, including the one that you have. 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 3: Built, well, the one that I read about. And I 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 3: think Barbara Walters did the piece. I think she did 40 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 3: a piece like six and she described this place as 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: a country club. And you know you could play golf 42 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 3: and had a swimming pool at Pensacola. Yeah, so I 43 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 3: showed up in Pensacola. I'm looking for the swimming pool 44 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 3: and the golf course, but there weren't any swimming pool 45 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 3: and golf course. The good parts were there were no walls, 46 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 3: there were no bars. That part was good. I got 47 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 3: moved into a building that was built in fifties or sixties. 48 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 3: I got put in. The room was eighteen by twenty 49 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: two with nine other men that had black mole on 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 3: the walls. It had no heat, what's wherever in the winter, 51 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 3: and the medical care, as far as I'm concerned, it 52 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 3: was non existent. And the food was I was there 53 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 3: thirty one months. I think I ate in the cafeteria 54 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 3: like seven times. So it was anything but a country club. 55 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: I can assure you that how did you manage to 56 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: not talk your entire career to the media? And was 57 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: that a strategy or was that just something that happened. 58 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: It was a strategy. I was never looking for recognition. 59 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 3: I was looking for the opposite. I came to Las Vegas. 60 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 3: I did my best, absolutely blend in and never be 61 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: heard or seen, And unfortunately some of the wrong. People 62 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: learned I was here, which led me to leave Las Vegas. 63 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 3: But I've gotten notoriety, not because I've sought notoriety, because 64 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 3: it's either been brought to my door through either law enforcement, 65 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: indictments or things such as that. But I did a 66 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 3: sixty minutes piece for a reason, and I knew I 67 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: was going to get notoriety from that. But when I 68 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: wait the pluses and minuses, I agreed. I believed it 69 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 3: was worth doing the peace. When I wrote this book, 70 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 3: it was something I had to do. I knew it 71 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: was going to bring a lot of notoriety also, But 72 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: as soon as this book is out, I will go 73 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: back away. I'm not looking for notoriety. I'm looking for 74 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: just the object. 75 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: Let's go back to your first bet. You're nine years old. 76 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: It's the nineteen fifty five World Series. In your lifetime. 77 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: The Yankees had already won six times in all six 78 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: World Series they were in, and you go bet on 79 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: the Yankees goes to Game seven and the Brooklyn Dodgers win. 80 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: They're only one one hundred and twenty five dollars in 81 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: your pocket, let's say, but that's all you have. You're 82 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: a nine year old boy, and you lose, why do 83 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: you come back? 84 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 3: Actually it made me when I lost some money, it 85 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 3: made me even more determined to come back. Losing. I 86 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 3: think you know that as one of two effects on 87 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 3: people now. It wasn't the first time I gambled. I 88 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 3: started gambling in the pool room when I was six 89 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 3: years old, you know, penny nine ball. But I lost 90 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 3: everything that I saved up in two years. Clearly it 91 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: was gut wrenching to lose my money, but about the 92 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 3: same time I was very determined that I was going 93 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 3: to end my money back. 94 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: So on sixty minutes, you talked about, you know, the 95 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: stock market not being a fair game, or the fraudulent 96 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: stocks and gambling always had a bad rap. But you 97 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: talk about you're in the stock market and companies are 98 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: only required to report four times a year. Sports teams 99 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: are required to report who's injured. You have a whole 100 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: lot more information. What's a fairer game, the stock market 101 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: or sports betting? 102 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 3: Frankly, I think sports betting is. I said so in 103 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 3: sixty minutes, and I believe that today. I think it 104 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: would be impossible to completely regulate everything's going on in 105 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 3: the stock markets. I think there's too many people, too 106 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 3: many companies, and I think it's next to impossible probably, 107 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 3: you know, to regulate it one hundred percent. I think 108 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 3: sports is much much more regulated. 109 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: As someone who standardized kind of information and used information, 110 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: the information is more readily available in sports, no question 111 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: about it. Gamblers always talk about, Hey, you're only as 112 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: good as you know you're making money. If you're winning 113 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: fifty three percent fifty four percent, you kind of change 114 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: the idea of the percentage and more about games that 115 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: you believe in more that your system shows are greater. 116 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: You have to get more money down on them. That 117 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: is a different idea than anyone's really ever talked about. Also, 118 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: you were successful at getting that money down. How much 119 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: of your philosophy was about believing in certain games and 120 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: then figuring out how to get that money down. 121 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 3: Well, there's different ways of handicapping, and there's different people 122 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 3: able to create certain advantages, some smaller than others. And 123 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,119 Speaker 3: you know, if I wanted to or during that period 124 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: of time, I could have bet on probably six seven 125 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 3: games a week and had a twenty plus percent advantage 126 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 3: on each game I bet on. Or I can bet 127 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 3: on thirty five games a week and had any were 128 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 3: from a two to twenty percent advantage and spread my risk, 129 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: but not only spread my risk. I would have been 130 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 3: able to have have disguise of larger bets and the 131 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 3: smaller bets, which was important when it came to Las 132 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: Vegas in the early eighties. The challenge that everyone had 133 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: and most people still have today is they create an advantage, 134 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 3: whether it be in one sport or multiple sports, but 135 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: usually it's one sport. And there's guys that when they 136 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: put the lineup on Sunday night or Monday morning, you 137 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 3: know they can make a living making a bet, but 138 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 3: the limits are very small. You can only want a 139 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: small amount of money. From my perspective, I wasn't interested 140 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: in winning a small amount of money. I was only 141 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 3: interested in winning a large amount of money. Well, in 142 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: order to do that, you have to wait till the 143 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: line's settled in the bookmakers feel like it's solid, and 144 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: it is solid and in the line everyone's got the 145 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: line up. With that time, they've increased their limits. Well 146 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 3: by that time, the guys that were betting earlier in 147 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: the week done because there's no more advantage for them. 148 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 3: So what I've been able to do with the help 149 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 3: of a lot of people who've worked with me over 150 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: the years, I've been able to identify those situations to 151 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 3: where maybe we've got a smaller of a percentage advantage 152 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: than those guys that bet on Sunday night or Monday. 153 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 3: But instead of betting ten or twenty thousand dollars on 154 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 3: the game, I've betten maybe a million or a me 155 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 3: and I have are two million dollars on the game. 156 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 3: So it's real simple to me, as you drill, to 157 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 3: sell a gallon of gas for ten bucks? Or do 158 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 3: you to sell ten thousand gallons of gas? You know 159 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: for a buck? That's the way I looked at it. Well, 160 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 3: that sounds everyone will want the lighter, But then you've 161 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 3: got to figure out how to do that, and then 162 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 3: you've got to figure out how to do that, and 163 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 3: you've got to be able to figure out how to 164 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 3: do it today, tomorrow and next week, next year. You know. 165 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 3: Handicapping sports and identifying positive opportunities, that was an easy part. Okay, 166 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 3: managing the markets and being able to bet a significant 167 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 3: amount of money for a long period of time that 168 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: was a hard part. And when I close up shop 169 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen to prepare for the trial in the 170 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 3: Southern District in New York. I had an office in 171 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 3: Panama City, Panama. We had sixteen hundred accounts worldwide. I 172 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: probably had one hundred accounts here in Las Vegas, so 173 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: we had say seventeen hundred accounts, And as I noted 174 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 3: in a book, I kind of shared how we did 175 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 3: what we did. 176 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: What about the idea of trusting someone with two hundred, 177 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: three hundred, four hundred thousand dollars of cash? How many 178 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: times does that go wrong? You know, the disguise you 179 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: can talk about all day long, but then actually giving 180 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: someone else that type of money, that's something else. 181 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: Well, sure, I mean you're taking a risk, and look, 182 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 3: got a I don't have. I've got a high school education. 183 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 3: But I've dealt with people in my entire life. And 184 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 3: you get a gut feeling about a certain person, clearly, 185 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 3: you know, you find everything you can find out about 186 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 3: them from other peop You know, you do this, you 187 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 3: do that, and at the end of the day, it's 188 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 3: a leap of faith whether you trust that person, whether 189 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 3: you don't. The majority of the time, I've been right 190 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 3: as far as entrusting someone in a large amount of cash. 191 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: On too many occasions I've been wrong and it's cost 192 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 3: me millions of dollars over my career. But that's just 193 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 3: one of the hazards of the business. It's like getting 194 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 3: stuffed by book mackery doesn't pay yet. Okay, it's a 195 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 3: council receivable and you didn't get paid. So you have 196 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 3: to factor all those things in. If you're betting at 197 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 3: a large scale, those things are going to happen. It's 198 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: just like any other business. You know you're going to 199 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: have charge offs. 200 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: You ever have a situation where a guy put in 201 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: the wrong bet. 202 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,599 Speaker 3: Oh for sure. I've had every kind of situation you 203 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 3: could have. 204 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: Can you remember one? 205 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 3: No, not really too much car tissue. 206 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: You were kind of forced to make the late move 207 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: in the week while the prevailing view is still like, oh, 208 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: get them early, right before everything changes. Do you believe 209 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: the late move the leap this move is the right move. 210 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 3: No, not necessarily, not at all. I believe if the 211 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 3: earlier you could bet, I think you're going to find 212 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 3: a much bigger advantage. As far as finding a softer line, 213 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: I don't think there's any question about it. You just 214 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 3: can't that much money. And I was interested in in 215 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: a small amount of money. We could have played early, 216 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 3: but it wouldn't make much money. And then on top 217 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 3: of that, I don't think I'd still probably be relevant 218 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 3: as long as the other thing that I did, you 219 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 3: know is I worked with a lot of guys over 220 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: the years, a lot of really really smart people. Every 221 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 3: one of them at some point they became irrelevant. They 222 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: could no longer win the advantage they had. They ran 223 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 3: out of they ran out of ideas. And I knew 224 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 3: when I was involved with the Computer group with Mike 225 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 3: Kent in the eighties, I knew that was going to happen. 226 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 3: I could see that, and so in the mid eighties, 227 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 3: that's when I started to get involved with multiple people. 228 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: That's how it was, and that's how I'm still relevant today. 229 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 3: You got really smart people or betters. You've got people 230 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: are booking, are smart, and you're competing against the best 231 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 3: of the bet and in order to stay ahead of 232 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: the game, you have to find things that no one 233 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 3: else finds. You have to be able to see angles 234 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: that no one else can see, and that's not always 235 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,599 Speaker 3: easy to do. You know, the years that I was 236 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: betting all the sports, we finally quit baseball. I don't know, 237 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 3: twenty years ago, maybe longer, which is the best thing 238 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 3: that I did. I was killing all my people. We 239 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 3: were working three hundred and sixty five days a year, 240 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 3: and so we finally took baseball off and that allowed 241 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 3: my people to not only get recharged, but we worked 242 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 3: the entire off season with getting ready for football and basketball. 243 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 3: We ran simulations, we did all kinds of things to 244 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: go back and look at the prior results and trying 245 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 3: to figure out ways that we could improve and we 246 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 3: could get better, because again, one thing for sure in life, 247 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 3: in sports and business, there's change. There's always going to 248 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 3: be constant changes. You can't stay out of that change. 249 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 3: You're gonna be like a dinosaur. You're gone. And over 250 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 3: the years, I've literally seen hundreds come and go. 251 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: It's smart, guys, easiest sport to bet on. 252 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 3: It's really funny you kind of brought this up. Back 253 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: when I was betting, they didn't have some of the 254 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 3: sports that they have now. You know, NASCAR just kind 255 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 3: of come along. I think NASCAR is probably pretty easy. 256 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: Some of the fighting venues, some of these obscure sports, 257 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 3: you know, Australian whatever it is, And it's really ironic 258 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 3: you know, you kind of kind of bring this up 259 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 3: because from my perspective, that kind of leads into what 260 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 3: I think is a good conversation also that we could 261 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: have and that is a lot of bookmakers. You know 262 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 3: you were talking about it's hard to get down, well, 263 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 3: the biggest issue. There's no one any happier about legalized 264 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: sports betting than me, okay, And I think we've come 265 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 3: along ways, but I think we have a long ways 266 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: to possibly go. And I think one of the biggest 267 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 3: impediments we have out there and is the people who 268 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 3: have gotten sports betting legalized, and you know, they're great 269 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: marketers and they've signed up a lot of customers, but 270 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 3: the people normally behind not normally but the people that 271 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 3: I'm wherever they're behind these companies, they really don't know 272 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 3: anything about bookmaking, okay. And as a result, I think 273 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 3: there's a tremendous amount of opportunity out there that isn't 274 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 3: being achieved. And as an example, you know, you've got bookmakers, 275 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 3: some bookmakers I say, smarter than others. Smarter may not 276 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: be the word, but there's bookmakers out there that frankly, 277 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: some bookmakers they really don't know and understand the art 278 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 3: of book making, because the way they came up it 279 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 3: goes back to one of the Las Vegas Hilton open 280 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 3: their first sports book. It was a super book in 281 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 3: Las Vegas. The casino manager, the guy that ran the 282 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 3: Hilton at the time, his name is Jimmy Newman. They 283 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: were looking to hire a bookmaker to run the sportsbook 284 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 3: for them, and the guys that they wanted to hire 285 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 3: Bob Martin, Johnny Quinn, the guys that really knew how 286 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 3: to run a sportsbook the art of book making. They 287 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 3: weren't willing to work for the amount of money that 288 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 3: the Hilton would pay them, and they didn't want to 289 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: go through the hassle of getting a game of license. 290 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 3: So they brought a guy in to run a sports 291 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 3: book who came from, you know, a lineage of bookmakers 292 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: and smart guys who knew how to book. But he 293 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 3: came out with the mentality that, you know, we're only 294 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: going to book the losers, We're not going to book 295 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 3: the so called wise guys. Well, I've been doing this 296 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: my entire life, and I can tell you the number 297 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 3: of people that can beat you bet in sports and 298 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 3: give you a volume of business. With the NFL with 299 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 3: college football, with college basketball, with baseball, it's less than 300 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 3: one percent. Okay, Now, if you're a bookmaker and you're 301 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 3: sleepy and you know you're not really as proficient as 302 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 3: maybe you'd like to be, it's really easy to tell 303 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 3: your boss, Look, all we're going to do is book 304 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: to suckers, and anybody who's a wise guy, we're going 305 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: to throw them out. Well, the problem is ninety nine 306 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: percent of wise guys, here's a class that they fall in. 307 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 3: With information the way that it is today. Okay, with 308 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 3: the internet out there, with all the things that we have, 309 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 3: you've got people that if there's a key injury to 310 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 3: a game, if there's something that has it's going to 311 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 3: have a material outcome on that game. And the line 312 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 3: moves substantially. And you're sitting there and you got a 313 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: coal line and you don't move your line, and some 314 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: guy gives you a bet. Okay, Well, did you get 315 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 3: beat by a wise guy or did you take a 316 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 3: bet because you were a sleepy bookmaker. Well, if you're 317 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 3: a bookmaker and you've got customers, and you've got a 318 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 3: customer and he only gives you a bet, something has 319 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 3: happened to a game and he's caught you with a 320 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 3: stale line. You don't need that business. Throw that guy out. 321 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 3: But again, it's your fault, it's not his fault. 322 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: And the way they talk about it, it's almost like 323 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: that is not a fair game. 324 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 3: Now I know. Well, but see that's where you know, 325 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 3: I disagree. It's what happens when someone makes a bet 326 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 3: on the game and there's a material injury to the 327 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: team that they bettle. They're not giving any refunds. I 328 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 3: can'ttain the number of games that I've been on and 329 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 3: after I made the bet something happened to a quarterback 330 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: or something happened to a key player. But they're not 331 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 3: going to give me my money back. So no, that's uh. 332 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 3: But again, the thing that really, I guess kind of 333 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 3: frustrates me to a certain extint there's this perception been 334 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,239 Speaker 3: created out there, and unfortunately the people who run these 335 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 3: public and trading companies, you know, like I said, they're 336 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 3: a great businessmen, they're great marketers, but they really don't 337 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 3: understand the book making business. Are relying on others who 338 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 3: supposedly do. And then you've got a guy out there 339 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 3: running this place that's sleepy. He gets nailed by some 340 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 3: guy that bet him when he should have moved his line, 341 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 3: and that guy is considered to be a wise guy. 342 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 3: But again, if I was a bookmaker, and I have 343 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 3: been a bookmaker years and years ago, if I had 344 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 3: a customer and the only time I got a call 345 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 3: from him is when you know, some key player was out, 346 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 3: and that's the only time a guy called me. I 347 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 3: tell him, I said, take care. But there's a Walgrange 348 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: spot and I don't need that business. The majority of 349 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: guys I'm talking about, they're gonna give those bets. They're 350 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 3: gonna lose their money anyway. They're gonna give them that 351 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 3: one bet where they call them with a cold number, 352 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 3: but they're gonna give them a bunch of other bets 353 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 3: and at the end of the day, you guy's probably 354 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 3: gonna lose his money anyway. But one final thought I'd 355 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 3: like to share with you on that. You know, if 356 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 3: the NFL, I don't care who the man is or 357 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 3: I don't care where he comes from. If you're afraid 358 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 3: to book the NFL, you need to close up shop 359 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 3: college football. If you're afraid to book college football, you 360 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 3: need to close up shop college basketball. I'm not talking 361 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 3: about the night before. I'm not talking about the first 362 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 3: thing in the morning, but once those numbers settle in, 363 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 3: especially after the first year when they go in the conference. 364 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 3: If you're afraid to book college basketball, you need to 365 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 3: close your shop up. That's the thing, in my opinion 366 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 3: that's really holding sports beating back from growing instead of 367 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 3: focusing on, okay, running your business, staying on top of 368 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 3: your accounts and building the business. A whole key to 369 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 3: bookmaking is what writing business. The more business you write, 370 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 3: everyone is going to prosper. When you're sitting there and 371 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 3: you're fighting and trying to figure out some way to 372 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 3: not to take business, you're not going to grow. Imagine 373 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 3: walking down in this casino right now, if every time 374 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 3: someone walked up and played baccara, let's say a guy 375 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 3: wonder three nights in a row, and they tossed him 376 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 3: out and said you can never come back. Imagine if 377 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 3: a guy would own shot craps and he got on 378 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 3: a hot hand two three nights in a row, they 379 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 3: threw him out. Same thing with blackjack, they threw him out. 380 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 3: You look around you you'd have a casino down there 381 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 3: and look like a morgue. Well, luckily the casinos aren't 382 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 3: ran that way, but unfortunately a lot of sports books are. 383 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 3: And again, the people who own these places there are 384 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 3: the people who are suffering the worst. The people invest 385 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 3: in these companies, they're the people who are suffering the worse. 386 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 3: If you could get some people to run the gambling 387 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 3: side of it that truly understood gambling, you know, we 388 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 3: would all be better. The states would get more revenue. 389 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 3: The states. I think the majority of the states are 390 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 3: disappointed about the round of revenue they got. Well they okay. 391 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 3: And the other thing I talked about in a book 392 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 3: that you haven't brought up yet is a taxation with 393 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 3: sports betting. It has to be addressed in order for 394 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 3: sports betty to ever go from where it's apt to 395 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 3: where it could and should be. 396 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: All Right, I'm going to get to Phil Micholson. 397 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 3: Now, sure, So. 398 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: For five years you had a partnership with him. You 399 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: said that you believed he bet more than a billion 400 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: dollars over the course of his career over three decades, 401 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: and you also said that you don't think there is 402 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: anyone who bet more than him other than you. Do 403 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: you believe that Phil Mickelson is the second biggest gambler 404 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 1: in American history. 405 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody individual. Is everybody more mon 406 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 3: than Phil. 407 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: Michaelson, No, in the history of America. 408 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 3: But I'm a no, not that I don't. 409 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 1: Do you think people are surprised to hear that? 410 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 3: They probably are. Frankly, you know, as I said in 411 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 3: the book, you know that's his business. You know, that's 412 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 3: his money. You know, you know, I want to if 413 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: he wants to gamble, he wants to bet on sports 414 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 3: or whatever. You know. I put that in the book 415 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 3: for a different reason than that. But the answer question, 416 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 3: I think people clearly are shocked, and because I think 417 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 3: up until another book came out philed it that kind 418 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 3: of played down, you know, his his betting. And then 419 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 3: the other book I think came out involving Alan Schuttenook, 420 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 3: and then he came out and I think he said 421 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 3: he had lost forty million dollars or something, and then 422 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 3: of course he didn't tell the true third, didn't come clean. 423 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 3: And that's the reason I felt like I needed to add 424 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 3: it in my book, because my relationship with him. You know, 425 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you've either got credibility 426 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 3: or you don't. And I put that in there to 427 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 3: obviously display you know, from a credibility standpoint, these are 428 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 3: what the real facts are. 429 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the fact that you put the real 430 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: number of bets and that they were logged and there 431 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: were exact bets, and you know, I think that goes 432 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: a long way. 433 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 3: Well, every bet that I've done we have in the 434 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 3: county system, and whoever we make the bet with, it's 435 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 3: the time to date. It's just like they're having the casinos. 436 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: My entire relationship with him, with the five years we 437 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 3: have that all as part of our accounting program. We 438 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 3: have to have that for taxes. 439 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: Right, because it's a real business correct. 440 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 3: And then the other was provided to me by a 441 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 3: couple of sources that did business in prior to that, 442 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 3: going back to nineteen ninety five. They also had the 443 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 3: same records. And that's the things that I know about 444 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 3: just between me and this other group. I don't know 445 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 3: about anything else. I mean, there could be other things 446 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 3: that I'm unaware of too. 447 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: So you're a good odds maker. Did you miscalculate the 448 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: odds that Phil would defend you? 449 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 3: I did? I thought, you know, I feel like I'm 450 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 3: a fairly decent judge of people. Out of Suva Phil. 451 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 3: I thought Phil and I were friends, but more importantly, 452 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 3: I thought he was I thought he was a stand 453 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 3: up guy. I was really really surprised when all I 454 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 3: want him to do is simply come forward and tell 455 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 3: the truth. I didn't need any real help other and 456 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 3: just come forward and tell the truth, as you told me. 457 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 3: You had told the FBI on two different occasions. But 458 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 3: I knew he had this issue, and I knew he 459 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,719 Speaker 3: had a problem with the money laarndered investigation that had 460 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 3: been going on a long time. Part of this coming 461 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 3: up that didn't involve me, It involved himself and two 462 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 3: other men. And what happened was when the insider trading 463 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 3: case came up. I think you are a very good lawyer, 464 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 3: and they were able to make the money laundered investigation 465 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 3: go away, but at the same time created a perception 466 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 3: out there that I was guilty of money laundering because 467 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 3: by him giving back almost a million dollars in the 468 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 3: stock trade. And if I'm looking at this from the outside, 469 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 3: I don't know anything about it. I'm thinking, well, okay, 470 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 3: he's either an innocent victim and an insider trading case. 471 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 3: Great body his way out. But regardless, it makes me 472 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 3: Billy Walters look guilty as hell, because why would he 473 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 3: give this million bucks back? Well, there was no answer 474 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 3: about the rest of the things that took place behind 475 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 3: the scenes. He got out of a money laundered investigation. Okay, yeah, 476 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: he gave this money back. But they were able to 477 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 3: use a celebrity, one of the most famous men in 478 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 3: the world, and that perception was created, was created certainly 479 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 3: throughout the United States and probably parts of the other world. 480 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 3: And when I went to court New York, there were 481 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 3: hundreds of stories out there that people had read. When 482 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 3: I went to court New York, the New York newspapers, 483 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 3: Phil Mickelson was speculation was going to come and testify 484 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 3: on a trial. When we were interviewing perspective jurors, two 485 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 3: of them want to know if Phil Mickelson was going 486 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 3: to come and testify. So when that jury got m paneled, 487 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 3: was Phil Mickelson that they read those stories? They saw 488 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 3: he gave this money back, but there were no other answers, 489 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 3: and he told me he would come and testify. And 490 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 3: then when I got to New York and I got 491 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 3: in the final hour, his lawyers said he's taking the 492 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: Fifth Amendment if someone tells you they're taking the Fifth Amendment, 493 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 3: you can't call them. Then I asked him, I said, well, 494 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 3: just at least put out a public statement. You wouldn't 495 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 3: even do that. Excuse me, excuse me. What do we 496 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 3: have next? Yeah, I'm enjoying this with you. No, you're 497 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 3: my kind of guy. You get it. 498 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: Okay. So we get to the point in the book 499 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: where we're talking about power ratings and I'm looking along 500 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: and I'm going down and I'm like, yeah, seems right, 501 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: seems right, seems right. And then I come to two 502 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: that my eyes pop open. A team playing an opponent 503 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: who played on Monday night football and is now playing 504 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: on a short week on the road. Plus eight points 505 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: to the opponent plus eight. That's a wild number. 506 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 3: Well, I think it was an eight factor, I think, 507 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 3: which is again, the book is what the book is. 508 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I had that. And then the other one 509 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: that I saw was a great team that's coming off 510 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: a buy and then plays on the road. Why is 511 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: it the road there versus home? 512 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: I can't tell you that We've been doing these things 513 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 3: since nineteen seventy four, and I think probably the most 514 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 3: relevant statistics for the last ten years. But again, the 515 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:15,719 Speaker 3: number crunchers come up with that stuff, but they've been 516 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 3: with me for thirty years, so they're pretty good, got it. 517 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: Okay, the biggest bet you've ever made. 518 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: Dollarwise in sports? I bet three and a half million 519 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 3: dollars on the Super Bowl. 520 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: That was the scenes. 521 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and I'd have some future bets going there too, 522 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 3: so I had a little bit bigger sweat for the outcome. 523 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 3: But I've bet three and a half million extra on 524 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 3: top of the futures that that I bet on early. 525 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:41,959 Speaker 3: Why did you do that? 526 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: Was it the best easiest bet you could make? Or 527 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: was it the timing or well? 528 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 3: No, there was a discrepancy in the number that was 529 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 3: out there, and the number we made it was like 530 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 3: seven points off. And I mean at the end of 531 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 3: an NFL football season and you got playing for the 532 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 3: Super Bowl. I mean, it's just an unheard of Further, 533 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 3: it'll be a seven point differential in the line that 534 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: we made and the line that that the osmakers had. 535 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 3: You know, normally you get to that time of the year, 536 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 3: I mean, our numbers are within a point point and 537 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 3: a half. If you find something two points off, it's 538 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 3: a mountain. Uh, this game was seven. 539 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: Points off and you didn't even sweat. 540 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 3: Well, it turned out that way, but I mean, you know, 541 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 3: it's uh, you win something, you lose some, you know. 542 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: So that was definitely a value. 543 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 3: But that one was good. Yeah, that was a good one. 544 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: The worst loss you can remember. 545 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 3: Oh man, I've lost some rough ones. I was on 546 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 3: the other side of the music cety Miracle when I'm 547 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 3: when Buffalo and Tennessee were playing. 548 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: Now, let me let me ask you this if you 549 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: can remember. So that was ninety nine, so the TV 550 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: wasn't off. I assume you watch you watched it live, 551 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: or you thought you won. 552 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 3: Or what was Well, No, I watched. I watched my 553 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 3: money go down to drain when they run that back. 554 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 3: But the other I shared, the one, you know, probably 555 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 3: the worst loss I ever had was that was at 556 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 3: halftime with there but with Arizona in Pittsburgh. Oh my god. Yeah, 557 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 3: running the back, running back for one hundred yards is 558 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 3: one thing. But here's a guy, I mean, my god, 559 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 3: he big early linebacker, he right. I mean, I got 560 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 3: Larry Fitzdial trying to catch him and he's running down 561 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 3: the side of line and one of his own guys 562 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 3: got in his way, and I mean that was but again, 563 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 3: over the years, I won a lot of games I 564 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 3: shouldn't have won, and I've lost a lot of games 565 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 3: and I should have won. So that's just part of gambling. 566 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 3: You know, you're but I don't care who we are. 567 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 3: I mean, the tough losses they stick with us, probably 568 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 3: more so than me than the wins would jerk out 569 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 3: of fire. But I've had some reference. 570 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: Your stance on games being fixed. 571 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 3: H First of all, I don't think there's games being 572 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 3: fixed nearly. I'm not. I'm not nearly suspicious of games 573 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 3: being fixed as others. Okay, I mean years ago there 574 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 3: was a lot more issues with you. You had to 575 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 3: worry about that. But every issue with impropriety as far 576 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 3: as games being fixed, gamblers have been the one that 577 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: has brought that to light to law enforcement. It's not 578 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 3: law enforcement, you know, we had to issue at Arizona State. 579 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 3: I called Steve de Charman with the Game of Control 580 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 3: board here and made him wherever was. 581 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: Going on at AIG Smith. 582 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you know the thing with the NBA official 583 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 3: I think gamblers knew six to eight months before that 584 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 3: came that came down something was wrong. You know, gamblers 585 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 3: have more interests and the credibility of sports than anyone 586 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 3: in the world, because at the end of the day, 587 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 3: if I see something, I'm going to work extremely hard 588 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: to make sure it's eradicated and it's taken away, because 589 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 3: if there's any question about the credibility of the game 590 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 3: or the sport, who wants to bet on it? You know, 591 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 3: And it's just like the stock market. If you lose 592 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 3: confidence in the stock market, you don't want to invest 593 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 3: your money there. You know, gamblers have worked probably harder 594 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: than anyone in the world to keep the game straight. Now, 595 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 3: years and years ago, I heard all the same stories. 596 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 3: I wasn't around, but I think probably you know Black Sox. 597 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 3: You know, I've heard stories about others. But since I've 598 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 3: been betting on sports and I've been gambling. As far 599 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 3: as games being fixed, it's been five orless occasions in 600 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 3: all these years. I mean, but now you know, I'm 601 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 3: not concerned at all with games being fixed. It can happen, 602 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 3: but I think if it happens, I think with the 603 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 3: way sports were covered today, I think it would get 604 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 3: I think it'd get picked off, just like that. 605 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: Most fascinating part of the book. I mean, it's great 606 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: But for me, it was the papers off the plane, 607 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: right before the internet, planes being littered with sports sections, 608 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: picking it up, figuring out what's going on, getting inside 609 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: of the local paper. Now there's so much with live betting, 610 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: the algorithms are going, the computers are going. How would 611 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: you have fared in today's world? Right you shut down 612 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, twenty eighteen, past five years of legal 613 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: sports betting, How would you have fared in today's world? Old? 614 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: Would the computer have caught up with you? 615 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 3: You know, just a little left wye. I've been doc 616 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 3: betting for a couple of years. I'm fair enough. I'm 617 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 3: doing okay. I don't do it for a living the 618 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 3: way that I used to. I don't do it with 619 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 3: all the sports, but the sports that I've chosen to 620 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 3: engage with, I'm doing just fine. And I think, frankly, 621 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 3: I think I would have been fine there. Also, it's 622 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 3: more competitive, there's no doubt about it. But you know, 623 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 3: it also creates kind of more opportunity to a certain degree, 624 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 3: the bookmakers when I first started in the business. And again, 625 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 3: I don't want this to come across the wrong way, 626 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 3: because you know, there may be any you know, some 627 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 3: sort of impression out there that I don't like bookmakers. 628 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 3: I don't have any problem at all bookmakers. Some of 629 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 3: my best friends are bookmakers. But the bookmakers when I 630 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 3: first started in the business in the eighties and the nineties, 631 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 3: they knew a lot more about bookmaking than the people 632 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 3: who are booking sports today. So from that side of 633 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 3: the corn, I think there's more advantage for for betters, okay, 634 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 3: because the adversary of the gay on the other side 635 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 3: is not as he's not as proficients as moving his 636 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 3: numbers and doing things such as that. Now, as you 637 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 3: pointed out, I mean with technology and the speed of 638 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 3: information and the competition and you know, m I T 639 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 3: graduates and you know, you've got real competition out there 640 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 3: with people that are that are other handicappers. That's the 641 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 3: greatest it's ever been. But I still think, I don't think, 642 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 3: I know. I'm still very confident I can beat the game. 643 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: What do you think of the same game parlay? 644 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 3: M hm, Well, I think there can be situations it's 645 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 3: advantageous for a. 646 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: Player parlays in general. That's the story of you know, 647 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: the digital gambling age. Obviously, we know for a long 648 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: time from looking at the game and control board. When 649 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: you look at the parlay cards, it beats all the 650 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: table games on the return to the casino of wind person. 651 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 3: So that's another thing there. One of the reasons that 652 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 3: I put the charts in the book that I did, 653 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 3: I really don't think the betting public generally understands the 654 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 3: odds they're laying when they bet on a parlay or 655 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 3: a teaser. If you understand it and you want to 656 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 3: go forward and you want to lay a dollar thirty, 657 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 3: dollar thirty five on something instead of betting on the 658 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 3: game straight at eleven to ten, do it. But you 659 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,239 Speaker 3: better have something really strong mathematically to offset that or 660 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 3: you're going to lose your money much much quicker. But 661 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: the reason the sports books like parlays is they're much 662 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 3: more profitable. But the majority of people are betting parlays, 663 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 3: I don't think they truly know and understand the odds 664 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 3: that they're laying. Again, to me, if I had a 665 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 3: choice and I want to lay a dollar thirty on something, 666 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 3: I could lay a dollar ten on something, I'm going 667 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 3: to choose the dollar ten every time. But as you 668 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 3: noted I put in the book, I put charts in 669 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 3: there that show exactly how a two team parlay or 670 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: a two team teaser compares to eleven to ten bet again, 671 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 3: now again, if you want to do it, not at 672 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 3: least you know I put into price in there. It's 673 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 3: what is truly worth about half a point, and those 674 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 3: prices changed from from point to point because each point 675 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 3: has a different value. And then how money line compares 676 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 3: to a straight line bet. So there's things in there 677 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 3: for the average better today in this book that okay, 678 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 3: they're going to know exactly what they're doing so they 679 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 3: understand what fair pricing is. But parlays are fun. You know, 680 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 3: there's something you can put a small amount of money. 681 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 3: You want a large amount of money. That's what we 682 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 3: all want to do. But from an odd standpoint, you're 683 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 3: a land much higher odds. 684 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: I'm only giving you one insight you can have in 685 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: an NFL game. What is that one insight that I 686 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: can give you that can make you a good better 687 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,439 Speaker 1: for that game? If there's one? 688 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 3: How bad is a quarterback injured? 689 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: Because the quarterback is always injured, But how bad is that? 690 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: We talked about the idea of fixing. Obviously, you know 691 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: you had in the book that Phil called you and asked, 692 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: you know, you should bet on himself. Essentially, the writer 693 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: couple four hundred thousand dollars bet he since said he 694 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: actually didn't make that bet. You said you didn't know. 695 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: How often do you think athletes bet on themselves? 696 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 3: I can't answer that. You know, I read something recently 697 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 3: in a paper, which I don't believe everything I read 698 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 3: in the paper, but about young players who just came 699 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 3: in the league were making small bets on teams. I 700 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 3: don't know whether they were betting on their team against 701 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 3: their team or whatever, but I really don't know. I mean, 702 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 3: I would hope today if they when they come into 703 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 3: professional sports that whatever league they're in, they're counseled properly 704 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 3: by the teams that are with by others to point 705 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 3: out to them, Look, this may be fun and you 706 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 3: may want to do this, but these are the reasons 707 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 3: you can't do this. And there's probably some of that 708 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 3: going on today, but I think there's a good possibility 709 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 3: there's not enough of it going on. But we all 710 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 3: want to bet on ourself. I mean, who wouldn't. But 711 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, once you become a 712 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 3: professional athlete, I think you have a responsibility not to 713 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 3: do that. 714 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: So you were in at least three situations where there 715 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: was a gun to your head or a gun area, 716 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: you were in a trunk. You've been in a bunch 717 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: of situations. You're sitting here now at seventy seven years old, 718 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: having been in prison thirty one months. What would you 719 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: have given your odds of actually being on earth right now? 720 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 3: It would be north of one hundred to one. 721 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: It's incredible. 722 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 3: It is incredible. Actually, when I was thirty two years old, 723 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 3: I was with three other friends and we were drinking, 724 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 3: and that was a fun deal. But we were putting 725 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 3: up over unders on it how long everyone was going 726 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 3: to live? Well, they put the over and under up 727 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,919 Speaker 3: on me on thirty five. No one was betting over 728 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 3: including you. Well, I couldn't bet on myself. 729 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay. So you're seventy seven years old. Now, 730 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: if I gave you the chance to give yourself a 731 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 1: vice for life, for your seventeen year old self, life 732 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,439 Speaker 1: in general could be betting could be anything. What would 733 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: it be. 734 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 3: Well, Luckily, I've done things my whole life that I love, 735 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 3: I enjoy. I mean, look, the happiest moments I've ever 736 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 3: had in my life is when I moved to Las 737 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 3: Vegas and I was a full time professional gambler. I'm 738 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 3: with Dora Brunson, I'm with Chip Reese. I was still younger. 739 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 3: You know. Every day I get up, I'm either betting 740 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 3: on sports, watching ball games, I'm playing poker, I'm playing golf, 741 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 3: And those have been the happiest moments of my life. 742 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 3: And prior to that, I was in the automobile business. 743 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 3: I love the automobile business. I love the action. I 744 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 3: love the people I met, I love the people I 745 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 3: worked with. There were characters. So I've been able to 746 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 3: do things my entire life that I love doing, and 747 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 3: that's the reason that I've been successful. I happen to 748 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 3: be involved in things I love. That's the reason I 749 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 3: have the passion for them that I do. At seventy seven, 750 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 3: I have as much passion for sports as I did 751 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 3: when I was nine. 752 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: Billy, I've been waiting my whole professional life to talk 753 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: to you. It's been a pleasure, so thank you so much. 754 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 3: Thank you it it's been my plunder. 755 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 2: Well, there you have it. Hope you enjoyed this special 756 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 2: edition of the Action Network podcast, And as a reminder, 757 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 2: coming up, In a few weeks, this podcast will return 758 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 2: with four new episodes every week as we welcome our 759 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 2: fifth NFL season. Thanks again, and we'll see you next 760 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 2: time right here on the Action Network podcast. 761 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 3: Action Network reminds you please gamble responsibly. If you or 762 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 3: someone you care about has a gambling problem, help is 763 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 3: available twenty four to seven at one eight hundred Gambler