1
00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:08,719
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,560
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb

3
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 2: and this is Joe McCormick. And today on Weird House Cinema,

4
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,040
Speaker 2: we are going to be talking about the nineteen seventy

5
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 2: five horror classic Deep Red or Profundo Rosso, starring David

6
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 2: Hemmings and Daria Nickelode, directed by Dario Argento. This movie

7
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,479
Speaker 2: is often held up as one of Argento's best, and

8
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,960
Speaker 2: in this case, I think I'm going to agree with

9
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,280
Speaker 2: the commonly held opinion not going to stake out any

10
00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,920
Speaker 2: weird territory. I do think this is one of the

11
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 2: best Jallo films ever made, if not the greatest one

12
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 2: of all. Now, why are we talking about Jallo in January?

13
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,680
Speaker 2: Because it's January Jallo once more. What is this? Well,

14
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 2: it's a tradition started by La based cult cinema outfit

15
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,280
Speaker 2: Cinematic Void. You can learn more about them at cinematic

16
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 2: void dot com. Beginning in twenty sixteen, I believe, and

17
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,600
Speaker 2: it steadily become more official, spread to other cities and

18
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 2: an official capacity, even while also being picked up informally

19
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,320
Speaker 2: as a viewing tradition, alongside the likes of Noir November

20
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 2: and hopefully more themed months to come. I love a

21
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 2: good theme, and I know you do.

22
00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,040
Speaker 3: You're you're more aware of these calendar things than I am.

23
00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,399
Speaker 3: I never would have known about Jallo January, you.

24
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 2: Know, I'm not. I don't get behind a lot of holidays.

25
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,640
Speaker 2: So I like these new holidays we're presenting ourselves with.

26
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,319
Speaker 2: And hey, this is the tenth anniversary of this new tradition,

27
00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,759
Speaker 2: so you know, we embraced it. We decided to pick

28
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,720
Speaker 2: a film last year. We did Footsteps on the Moon.

29
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,760
Speaker 3: Footprints on the Moon, Footprints on the Moon, Footprints on

30
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 3: the Moon, Yeah, which was a kind of weird pick.

31
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 3: We picked it because we had seen it listed online

32
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 3: among Jello films, and it was supposed to be really good.

33
00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 3: And I'm going to say, however, much I liked it.

34
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,960
Speaker 3: I think we both liked it a lot, didn't we Yeah.

35
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:01,680
Speaker 2: I really liked it.

36
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 3: But it turned out it really wasn't a Jallo film,

37
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 3: at least as most people would describe it. It's sort

38
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,679
Speaker 3: of aesthetically Jallo adjacent. So I think in that episode

39
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,160
Speaker 3: we may have actually said something like, if you want

40
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 3: to see what a core Jallo film is. Watch Deep Red.

41
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,919
Speaker 3: So here we are, and I would say, in all

42
00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,519
Speaker 3: but maybe a few respects, Deep Red is about as

43
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,160
Speaker 3: Jallo as it gets. It hits all the bullseye markers.

44
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,240
Speaker 3: It's like, what the absolute essence of what this genre is.

45
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 2: I'll have some questions about that as we proceed, because

46
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,600
Speaker 2: this is one of those areas where people get very

47
00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 2: specific about what should constitute jallo and what isn't Jallo.

48
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:51,240
Speaker 3: Well, can I offer a very actually oversimplified theory about

49
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,079
Speaker 3: why that question comes up so much?

50
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

51
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 3: I think it is specifically because a lot of people

52
00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:02,800
Speaker 3: get into jallo by watching Spiria first and then starting

53
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,200
Speaker 3: to watch Dario Argento's other movies, and Suspiria is not

54
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,440
Speaker 3: usually considered jello because it's supernatural, but some of his

55
00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,360
Speaker 3: other movies like Deep Bread and Tinebray and Bird with

56
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:20,399
Speaker 3: Crystal Plumage are very like core Jallo. But because Suspiria

57
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 3: has a lot of esthetic things in common with these

58
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,720
Speaker 3: other main Jallo movies, and because it's usually the first

59
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,320
Speaker 3: movie people see to get into this Italian film niche,

60
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 3: I think the question just comes up over and over again.

61
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, is Suspiria, not Jallo. Well, and so

62
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,920
Speaker 3: it creates the impression that there's a lot of discussion

63
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 3: about this like category boundary.

64
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,800
Speaker 2: Well, and it gets confusing too because then like Deep

65
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 2: Read has a psychic in it. It's true. Yeah, it's

66
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 2: not like this film is completely devoid of the speculative elopment.

67
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 3: But as they make clear in the film, and they're

68
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 3: like this, this psychic powers have nothing to do with magic.

69
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 3: You remember the whole speech about that.

70
00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,120
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, this is parapsycho.

71
00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 3: Right, science, it's pure science. So yeah, so I guess

72
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,040
Speaker 3: Robbie you had a section in the outline where you

73
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 3: thought we should do a brief refresher on what makes

74
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 3: a jallo.

75
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, let's remind everybody.

76
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 3: So. Jallo is an Italian movie genre which evolved out

77
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,120
Speaker 3: of a pulp literary genre of the same name. So

78
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,359
Speaker 3: you had Jallo novels which go back almost one hundred years.

79
00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,359
Speaker 3: These were mystery and crime thriller paperbacks, originally published with

80
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,599
Speaker 3: this iconic yellow cover design, which is where the genre

81
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 3: name comes from. Jallo means yellow, and Jallo films in

82
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,719
Speaker 3: plural are known as jalli Jalli plural of jello so

83
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 3: while the original Jallo novels were I think more in

84
00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,800
Speaker 3: line with your classic and maybe classier who done it?

85
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 3: You can think of authors like Agatha Christie. Jallo films,

86
00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 3: which became especially popular in the nineteen seventies, are known

87
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,680
Speaker 3: today for being seedier, having seed deier, trashier elements. You

88
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,920
Speaker 3: can still think of them basically as murder mystery thrillers,

89
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 3: but with strong elements of horror, usually grizzly violence, and

90
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,559
Speaker 3: what was usually seen as tawdry sexual subject matter.

91
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, usually like the kills especially. Yeah, you're not

92
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,600
Speaker 2: going to get an implied stabbing. You're gonna get a nice,

93
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,479
Speaker 2: juicy stabbing, that sort of thing.

94
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. So a lot of these movies have gore a

95
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,240
Speaker 3: lot of them. They they feel kind of perverted in

96
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 3: some way, and almost in that luccio fulcy sense. There's

97
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,480
Speaker 3: a great sense of like, let's get a look at

98
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 3: this as something that you wouldn't normally see or you're

99
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,480
Speaker 3: not supposed to see. The camera will really dwell on that.

100
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 3: So there are core plot elements you will find in

101
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 3: most Jello films. Usually there is a series of cold

102
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 3: blooded murders that are very very chilling. There's you know,

103
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,280
Speaker 3: they're not your run of the mill crime movie murder.

104
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,960
Speaker 3: There's something really shocking and weird and disgusting committed by

105
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 3: a killer with an unknown identity. So like, there's a

106
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 3: killer on the loose, we don't know who they are.

107
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 3: Maybe somebody only saw them from behind leaving the scene,

108
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,080
Speaker 3: and so there's a there's a mystery. Who is it?

109
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 3: Who from the cast of characters could it be. Usually

110
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,719
Speaker 3: police are not very helpful. They are baffled and useless,

111
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,599
Speaker 3: except in a few movies where the main character is

112
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 3: a police officer, but usually they're not. I really want

113
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,479
Speaker 3: to emphasize a thing that makes Jallo different than a

114
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,160
Speaker 3: lot of other mysteries or crime thrillers is the quality

115
00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 3: of the violence. The violence is more disturbing than your

116
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 3: standard movie homicide. And these movies really like weird, icky

117
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,159
Speaker 3: weapons and the kinds of wounds that make you go

118
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 3: ooh uh, Like, you know, you suck your air through

119
00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,240
Speaker 3: your teeth when you see these movie deaths.

120
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, grizzly would be a good description.

121
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,559
Speaker 3: So, for example, there's like one scene in this movie

122
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 3: where you know, the killer comes up on a professor

123
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 3: character and you think the killer is just gonna stab

124
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,880
Speaker 3: him with a knife, and the killer does stab him

125
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 3: with a knife, but before that there's a lot of

126
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 3: like bashing his teeth out on the corners of furniture.

127
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, on the whole. There were multiple times in

128
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 2: this film where and I'm no prude when it comes

129
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,600
Speaker 2: to violence, but there are multiple times where us like

130
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 2: this is a bit much, a genta, we really didn't

131
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:30,240
Speaker 2: need to see all of this.

132
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 3: That's what Jello is all about. It's all a bit much.

133
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 3: These movies also very frequently have an out of place

134
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:43,200
Speaker 3: or alienated protagonist who finds themselves carrying out an independent

135
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 3: investigation into the murders. Usually they there's some kind of

136
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 3: circumstance by which they have to become an amateur detective,

137
00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,640
Speaker 3: despite you know, dealing with hardships along the way. So

138
00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 3: they might have something is wrong with them that makes

139
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 3: it hard for them to investigate, or they're dealing with

140
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 3: fear or psychic trauma of some kind, or a lack

141
00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 3: of support from the community if they're an outsider. There

142
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,720
Speaker 3: are a lot of jala movies like this, where like

143
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,320
Speaker 3: somebody comes in from the outside. They're investigating murders for

144
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,400
Speaker 3: some reason, and the locals are not helping. At the

145
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 3: end of the movie, there will usually be a final

146
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,840
Speaker 3: revelation where we learn the killer's identity. Of course, it's

147
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 3: usually a character already known to us in some way,

148
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,520
Speaker 3: and we get some kind of full download of what

149
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,720
Speaker 3: happened with a full explanation, like in Hitchcock's Psycho, where

150
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,200
Speaker 3: we learn not just who did it, and usually who

151
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,120
Speaker 3: did it is kind of surprising. It's rare that it's

152
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,400
Speaker 3: like the main suspect, who did it, why they did it?

153
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,520
Speaker 3: Usually in these movies they were driven mad by some

154
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,840
Speaker 3: sort of bizarre childhood experience or trauma. Very often Freudian

155
00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,680
Speaker 3: logic is in play. And then another thing that I

156
00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,480
Speaker 3: think is crucial to the the flavor of Jello is

157
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,000
Speaker 3: that we have to get an explanation for why we

158
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,840
Speaker 3: didn't realize it was them all along, like how they

159
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,560
Speaker 3: covered it up, or why we wrongly suspected somebody else.

160
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,400
Speaker 3: More incidental plot elements that I think are very interesting

161
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 3: and how often they recur. One that I know I

162
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 3: mentioned in Footprints on the Moon in our episode on

163
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 3: that is that so many of these movies have a

164
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 3: protagonist who begins the investigation with the central clue to

165
00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 3: solving the mystery already in their possession or already in

166
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 3: their memory, but they can't make sense of it yet.

167
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,480
Speaker 3: So in several Argento movies, the main character of the

168
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 3: film actually witnesses something at the beginning that reveals the

169
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 3: killer's identity. This is there in Bird with a Crystal plumage.

170
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,800
Speaker 3: It's in a bunch of them, but they're not able

171
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,120
Speaker 3: to fully remember what they saw, or they can't make

172
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,920
Speaker 3: sense of it or un or stand it until something

173
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,240
Speaker 3: locks into place at the final revelation. And I think

174
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:08,840
Speaker 3: I said this last time as well, but I find

175
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,960
Speaker 3: this recurring plot element one of the most interesting things

176
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,480
Speaker 3: about Jello that these stories are about people who already

177
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,960
Speaker 3: saw the answer. It's there in their memory, but they

178
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 3: can't consciously apply the information. It's like blind sight.

179
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it'll be fun to come back to this

180
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 2: one as we actually break down the plot of Deep Red.

181
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 3: Another thing is that the protagonist often ends up questioning

182
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,000
Speaker 3: their sanity. Not always, but there's a good bit of that.

183
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,120
Speaker 3: Often there is also a central love story, and the

184
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 3: protagonist's love interest is both threatened by the killer but

185
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,480
Speaker 3: also suspected of being the killer, and sometimes they are

186
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,000
Speaker 3: the killer. And then, just to mention a few overriding

187
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 3: esthetic choices you see throughout Jallo films. One is voyeuristic

188
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,800
Speaker 3: photography that is huge in Argento and in Deep Red,

189
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,920
Speaker 3: but it's throughout the genre as well. A lot of

190
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 3: killer point of view shots.

191
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of hands doing things, picking up weapons,

192
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,720
Speaker 2: caressing documents, that sort of thing. And of course Urgento

193
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 2: is known for often playing the hands of the killer

194
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 2: in his films.

195
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,199
Speaker 3: Of course, as we already said, explicit violence in Gore,

196
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 3: there is a thematic and esthetic union of sex and death,

197
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 3: a lot of eroticized violence. A little bit, I would say,

198
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 3: less of that in Deep Red than in a lot

199
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 3: of Jello's, but there's a bit of it.

200
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,440
Speaker 2: It's still there. It's a little more tastefully balanced compared

201
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,680
Speaker 2: to where it goes in some films. That's the thing

202
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 2: about the genre as a whole, right, I mean sometimes

203
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 2: it is not subtle. Now, what we're looking at here

204
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 2: is really a finely crafted example of the genre.

205
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,839
Speaker 3: Yeah. The Jallo killer's uniform. This occurs again and again.

206
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,520
Speaker 3: Trench coat with the collar flipped off, flipped up, maybe

207
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 3: a fedora hat, and black leather gloves. An outfit that

208
00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,760
Speaker 3: hides their face. You know, you might see them only

209
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 3: from behind going around a corner, and it's the coat,

210
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,800
Speaker 3: the hat, and especially the gloves. And then I would say,

211
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,680
Speaker 3: especially in the better Jallo films, I notice they really

212
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,360
Speaker 3: often love interior decor. So many of these movies are

213
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:30,960
Speaker 3: full of striking sets, just apartments with wild detailed furniture

214
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,440
Speaker 3: and wallpaper patterns and stuff, just way more than you'd

215
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 3: see in any other movie genre I can think of,

216
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,959
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, so like wallpaper and furniture in fashion too,

217
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,559
Speaker 3: a lot of like wild interesting clothing. But one of

218
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 3: the last things I'd say about the esthetic commonalities is

219
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 3: that they often feature high art and low art sensibilities

220
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 3: crammed together in the same project. You get the feeling

221
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,040
Speaker 3: that a lot of these Jallo films were like perverted

222
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:09,200
Speaker 3: trash being made consciously as such by filmmakers who considered

223
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:10,880
Speaker 3: themselves great artists.

224
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting to think about with Deep Red,

225
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,800
Speaker 2: especially because I feel like the trashier aspects of the

226
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,079
Speaker 2: film are really elevated in a number of ways. I

227
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,679
Speaker 2: think it's elevated in the writing, elevated in the acting,

228
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 2: and of course in the direction. In a look of

229
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:27,160
Speaker 2: the film.

230
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, deep Red hits basically all of

231
00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,560
Speaker 3: these notes, not quite all, but most of them pretty perfectly.

232
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,320
Speaker 3: It certainly wasn't the first Jallo film. There's debate about

233
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 3: what was the first Jallo film. A lot of people

234
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,320
Speaker 3: point to the influence of Mario Bava's Blood and Black

235
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,600
Speaker 3: Lace as excellent film. Yeah, really good. Maybe not the

236
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 3: first one, but like a standard setter in the genre.

237
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,600
Speaker 3: That was I forget what year, in the late sixties,

238
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,679
Speaker 3: so we were well into the Jallo craze when Deep

239
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 3: Red came out. It also wasn't even Argento's first jallow film.

240
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,200
Speaker 3: You know, he had made Bird the Crystal Plumage, and

241
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,440
Speaker 3: I think I think a couple others, maybe Four Flies

242
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,240
Speaker 3: on Gray Velvet and The Cat and Nine Tails. But

243
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 3: a lot of people think this is his best Jallo film,

244
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 3: and I think that's probably right, But some of his

245
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 3: other ones are also really good. Bird with Crystal Plumage

246
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,439
Speaker 3: I haven't seen in years, but I remember being great.

247
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was actually my first time watching Deep Red.

248
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,080
Speaker 2: I've been listening to parts of the soundtrack for years,

249
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 2: especially in different like hard disco mixes, and I've seen

250
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,560
Speaker 2: other Argento films, of course, but I guess for some

251
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 2: reason I've often been drawn more to his films that

252
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 2: seem to offer a stronger spect cotive elopment, like Oh,

253
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 2: Stendel Syndrome, people are gonna be falling into paintings, kissing fish,

254
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,720
Speaker 2: I'm in you know it's Oh, it's Fantom of the Opera. Okay,

255
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 2: I'll sign up for that, and of course Suspiria and

256
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,160
Speaker 2: the other the other Witches films, you know, Yeah, Dracula

257
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 2: three D. Sign me up. I love I'll watch any

258
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 2: Dracula film three D even better.

259
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,800
Speaker 3: Oh boy, is that the one with Rutger Howard?

260
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 2: It is the one with record Yeah.

261
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no insult intended. But a lot of his

262
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 3: later films are not not usually favorites of the the

263
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,440
Speaker 3: Argento fans, but you know, check them out if you

264
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 3: feel like it.

265
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 2: I had to double check it is three D. Uh.

266
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,960
Speaker 3: Should we do a note on the different cuts of

267
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 3: this film?

268
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, different cuts as always, bunch of cuts, different titles.

269
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

270
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,720
Speaker 3: So there's one out there going around under the title

271
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,360
Speaker 3: the Hatchet Murders. That doesn't make any sense. I don't

272
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 3: think any of the murders in the movie used to hatchet.

273
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 2: Now Cleaver, Yes, so maybe they meant Cleaver and they can.

274
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 2: They're like, it's the Clever Murders and I'm like, uh,

275
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 2: it sounds like it's a Cleaver family or something, and

276
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 2: they're like, Okay, hatchet.

277
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 3: No hat Yeah, I don't want to mix it up

278
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 3: with leave it to Beaver. Yeah, there's no hatchet in

279
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 3: the movie. From what I recall there you could call

280
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,040
Speaker 3: it like the I don't know, Elevator Necklace Murders or something.

281
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,400
Speaker 3: But but there are at least three different cuts of

282
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,400
Speaker 3: the film out there, maybe more. I really don't know

283
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 3: how many total there are. So there are said to

284
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 3: be some shorter edits that have been kind of censored

285
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,440
Speaker 3: for particular international distribution that from what I can tell,

286
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,200
Speaker 3: people don't like those cuts. And then I think there's

287
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,000
Speaker 3: basically an original or theatrical cut, which I think runs

288
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 3: like ninety something minutes or maybe just over one hundred minutes,

289
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,280
Speaker 3: and then there are some longer versions. There's definitely a

290
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 3: longer director's cut with a lot of additional material that

291
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 3: wasn't in the theatrical release, and that's the one that

292
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 3: I watched for today. So Rob I think you and

293
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 3: I may have accidentally watched different cuts even though we

294
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 3: were trying to watch the same ones, So I apologize

295
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 3: if I miscommunicated about that.

296
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 2: Oh no, we've certainly watched different cuts of the same

297
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,040
Speaker 2: film for Weird House before, so it actually can make

298
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 2: for an interesting comparison between our two experiences. Yeah. I

299
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 2: normally don't do this, but it was a busy week,

300
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,400
Speaker 2: so I ended up streaming it on Pluto TV free

301
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 2: with commercials. It was great. It was definitely a different cut.

302
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 2: It wasn't the full extended cut, as we'll get into

303
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,400
Speaker 2: great quality though some scenes missing compared to what you're discussing,

304
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 2: But it still had the comedic scenes, which I understand

305
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,200
Speaker 2: are sometimes cut, and it certainly had seemingly full gore

306
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 2: because it.

307
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,440
Speaker 3: Was I'm thinking that the one you saw probably wasn't

308
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,679
Speaker 3: censored at all. It probably just had a lot of

309
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,879
Speaker 3: the stuff that was cut for time. And some people,

310
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,400
Speaker 3: from what I read online, do like the shorter theatrical cut,

311
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 3: which I think is probably what you saw. They like

312
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 3: it because they say that it's tighter. You know, it's

313
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 3: just got tighter editing and the story just moves along.

314
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,880
Speaker 3: The one I saw. My impression was that most of

315
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,479
Speaker 3: the extra stuff that was added back in was stuff

316
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,439
Speaker 3: in the romantic subplot, like a lot of scenes with

317
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 3: the character played by Daria and Nickelode which were cut

318
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,440
Speaker 3: out of the theatrical version. Like I've read people saying

319
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 3: that in the other versions her character has a lot

320
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,639
Speaker 3: less screen time and less to do, but in the

321
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 3: version I saw, there's a lot of her. So the

322
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 3: one that I watched is the one currently streaming on

323
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 3: Prime through a service called Cineverse, and so it looks

324
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,200
Speaker 3: like it's a fairly recent restoration. It has a few quirks.

325
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 3: For example, the film is dubbed in English, so I

326
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,679
Speaker 3: was watching it mostly in English, but there are some

327
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 3: scenes that are in Italian because that was the only

328
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,119
Speaker 3: format in which that scene was available. Also, we should

329
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,200
Speaker 3: say going forward, this will be a spoiler laden discussion

330
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,639
Speaker 3: of the film, So if you want to see it

331
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 3: you haven't seen it yet, you should probably pause here,

332
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,680
Speaker 3: go watch the movie before you listen to the rest

333
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 3: of the episode, because we are going to talk about

334
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 3: the plot and spoil things about it.

335
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is a who done it, so I

336
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,200
Speaker 2: do recommend going in spoiler free. I was fortunate enough

337
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 2: to go in spoiler free on this one, which a

338
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,120
Speaker 2: lot of these films, especially ones that are particularly well known,

339
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 2: you're just going to be spoiled on them one way

340
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 2: or ano they're reading about films in general or so forth,

341
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 2: listening to podcasts. So yeah, I highly recommend going into

342
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 2: this one as fresh as possible. Let's see, we often

343
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 2: do an elevator pitch. My elevator pitch is this is

344
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 2: Dario Argento's only Murders in the Building, because.

345
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,640
Speaker 3: I've seen that show, so I don't get the joke.

346
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,480
Speaker 2: But well, if you've seen only Murders in the Building,

347
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 2: you basically get it. Like there's been a murder in

348
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,199
Speaker 2: your building, in your apartment complex, and you are the

349
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,399
Speaker 2: amateur that is now investigating it. Yeah, it lines up

350
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 2: in at least two ways.

351
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,119
Speaker 3: I think. No, I'm going to defend the logic of

352
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 3: it a little bit. There's a lot in this movie

353
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 3: that doesn't make sense. But I think there's a reason

354
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 3: that David Hemmings character has to investigate, and it's that,

355
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,679
Speaker 3: having been identified in the press as a witness to

356
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 3: the murder, he is now the target, the next target

357
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 3: for the killer, and so he feels like he has

358
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 3: to solve the murder because he's implicated in it, Like

359
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 3: the killer is going to come for him next, so

360
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 3: he's got to find out who it is.

361
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, and I bought that. I bought that.

362
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 2: Watching the film, OK, I think it is for the

363
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 2: most part well support though there are a few times

364
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,719
Speaker 2: where you're like, Wow, this guy's just straight up destroying

365
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 2: a villa with his bare hands to solve a crime

366
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 2: and it's not his job at all.

367
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 3: Some of the yeah, some of the clue leaps are

368
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 3: incredibly tenuous, Like remember when he goes to the professors

369
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 3: and they're like, oh, that song that you that you heard, Yeah,

370
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 3: one time people heard that song playing at a house.

371
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 3: You should go look up a book about this house.

372
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. We get a little into the weeds on

373
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 2: the in the research phase at that point, but it

374
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 2: ends up working and it leads to some wonderful revelations.

375
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and listen to just a

376
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 2: little bit of the trailer audio. This one had a

377
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 2: in the English language release of this had a wonderful

378
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 2: grind housey trailer, So hopefully we can hear just a

379
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 2: little bit of that that that narration and that music.

380
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 3: Do they call it deep Red or profund Rosso?

381
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 2: Oh? You know, I don't remember, but this is definitely

382
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 2: one of those films where you hear you hear English

383
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 2: speaking fans of the film refer to it both ways.

384
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 2: And you know, because deep Red is how it was released,

385
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 2: and that's a solid title. But I think Profundoso is

386
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 2: just fun to say, even if you don't know the

387
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,400
Speaker 2: next thing about Italian. Uh, it just it sounds profound.

388
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 3: Profound and fun funds right there. It's fun.

389
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, have fun with all right, let's listen to

390
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 2: a little bit of that trailer everywhere you look, everywhere

391
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 2: you turn, and get this running with your.

392
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 3: Deep Red. It'll put you into deep shock.

393
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 2: All right. So at this point you might have decided, Okay,

394
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: I do need to watch Deep Red. I need to

395
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: watch it again. What have you? Where can I watch it? Well,

396
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: it's widely available in pretty much any format you could desire.

397
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 2: If you're going for physical media, which is always a

398
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: nice way to go, Arrow has a nice blu ray edition.

399
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 2: It looks like would have probably been my pick if

400
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 2: my schedule had allowed it this week. But it's this

401
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: is you know, this is an Argento film, so it's

402
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 2: probably had just multiple rounds of releases with special editions

403
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: and so forth. Same could be said for the soundtrack.

404
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into the people behind this film,

405
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 2: starting with Argento himself born nineteen forty, the director, the writer,

406
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 2: one of the producers, and of course he plays the

407
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: hands of the killers this time. What will our killer

408
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: be wearing? How would you describe these leather black leather

409
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: gloves with the gold zipper.

410
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. You can see there are lots

411
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 3: of zipping up the glove scenes getting ready. It's like,

412
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 3: what did we learned a name for that in the

413
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 3: cinema in the cinema space? You know the suiting up

414
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 3: scenes where you see people putting on their gear. I

415
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: forget the name for it, but we talked about that

416
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: in some movies last year. But this movie has suiting

417
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 3: up scenes where you see like somebody staring into a

418
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 3: mirror and putting like eyeliner on a crazy looking eye,

419
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 3: and then like zipping up the black gloves.

420
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, all right, our Gento we almost I really

421
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: don't have to tell many of you who are gentle

422
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: is legendary Italian horror director, writer, and producer, celebrated for

423
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: his stylish contributions to not only Shallo and shallow adjacent cinema,

424
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: but to the global horror genre as a whole. Active

425
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 2: as a director from nineteen seventy with The Bird with

426
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: the Crystal Plumage through twenty twenty two's Dark Glasses. Now

427
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: he has not, as of this recording, like officially retired

428
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 2: or anything, and I was trying to figure out, like

429
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: what is he working on? Hard to say he may

430
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: or may not be remaking a nineteen forties Mexican film,

431
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: which is a tantalizing possibility, because there's a lot of great,

432
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: you know, Golden age Mexican cinema that even you know,

433
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 2: a late our Gento adaptation could be pretty fascinating. And

434
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: I think, you know, everybody's rooting for Argento to to

435
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: put something else out and like really sort of, you know,

436
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: I guess, kind of like finish up his career with

437
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: something really strong. Not that you have to, because, as

438
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: we'll discuss, so many strong Argento films in his filmography.

439
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 2: Unlike many of his fellow Italian horror directors, Argento almost

440
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: exclusively worked in horror directing as far as I can

441
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 2: tell only a single non horror film, nineteen seventy three's

442
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: The Five Days, a kind of comedy set during the

443
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: Italian Revolution. This was his film directly before Deep Red.

444
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 3: That's funny. I thought he had done some other stuff,

445
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: but actually maybe I'm thinking of he wrote other stuff, right,

446
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: didn't direct it.

447
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: He did write a number of genre films prior to

448
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: his directorial, but as far as things he actually directed,

449
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 2: I think this is the only one could be wrong.

450
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: He also did some TV projects, but I think those

451
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: were all more or less in the horror as well. Now, Yeah,

452
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: briefly though, our Gento followed his debut film, of which

453
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 2: we already mentioned with seventy one's The Cat of Nine

454
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: Tales and Four Flies on Gray Velvet, then Five Days

455
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 2: and which I just mentioned, and in seventy five Deep Red.

456
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: He followed this up with the all time classic Suspiria

457
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: in seventy seven, which I think you're supposed to be

458
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 2: more properly pronounced as Suspiria, right, Spurria trailer. Then nineteen

459
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: eighties Inferno eighty two, s tenebrae eighty five's Phenomena, eighty

460
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 2: seven's Opera just a heck of a run there. Like

461
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 2: seventies and eighties, our gento was simply genre defining.

462
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: You know, we were just talking about movies where, for

463
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 3: some reason, English speakers don't translate the title, you let

464
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: it remain in another language, versus titles where you do.

465
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 3: Like so we call the Bird with the Crystal plumage

466
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 3: the bird with a crystal plumage, not the Italian version

467
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 3: of that. I don't know what it is, but we

468
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: don't translate titles like Suspiria and tenebrae there where we

469
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 3: say the original. Yeah, I think Suspiria means like size

470
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 3: and Latin.

471
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, size is not a good title at least, yeah,

472
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: not as English. But so Spiria, like that's great, Like

473
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: you don't even have to know what it means. You're

474
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: just you're drawn in. It's a fascinating word. So subsequent

475
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 2: decades of our gentle output, you know, haven't necessarily been

476
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: as strong, but still featured some notable titles and some

477
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: ambitious projects, including ninety six is the Stindell syndrome. That's

478
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: one where people fall into paintings and kiss fishes. So

479
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: you know, he's even his films that maybe don't have

480
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: as strong a following or didn't resonate with critics. I mean,

481
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 2: some of them have developed a cult following over time, certainly,

482
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of more still like they're

483
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: really going for something like that. He was definitely making

484
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 2: some big swings, and he's continued to act as well,

485
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: not only playing killer hands but sometimes taking on more

486
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: pronounced dramatic roles. And again, his writing credits go back

487
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: to I think nineteen sixty six, with a mix of

488
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: genre films, and he also contributed to several screenplays on

489
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: films that he did not direct, but that he was

490
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: like at least loosely associated with.

491
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 3: I just had an idea. I can't believe I've never

492
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 3: thought of this before. You know, those hands only cooking videos.

493
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: There's cooking shows where you'd never see the person's face.

494
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: You're just looking down hands making food. Or Jento should

495
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: make those right, And he wears the gloves and probably

496
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: he's a little bit violent, you know, he appeels the

497
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 3: potatoes with a needle or something. It takes a while,

498
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: but gets the job done.

499
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: The first season of Look Around You has these science

500
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: experiments with a pair of hands conducting the experiments, and

501
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: there's one of the experiments where the hand, one of

502
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 2: the hands becomes scalded by boiling water. So the hand

503
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: then is adorned with a leather glove. And there are

504
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: several nods to Jallo in that particular episode, with it

505
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: not too overt, but in the way it's like caressing

506
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: and fondling various scientific paraphernalia. All right, let's go further

507
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: behind the camera here. The other credited writer is Bernardino

508
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: z a Pony who lived nineteen twenty seven through the

509
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: year two thousand, Italian screenwriter, best known internationally for his

510
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: collaborations with Federico Fellini and Tinto Brass. His Fellini films

511
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: include Toby Dammit, part of the anthology Spirits of the

512
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: Dead from nineteen sixty eight this is the one hit

513
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: Terrence Stamp in it, as well as Satiricon from sixty nine,

514
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: The Clowns from nineteen seventy, Roma from seventy two, Casanova

515
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: from seventy six, and City of Women from nineteen eighty.

516
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: His films with Brass consist of ninety one's Paprika and

517
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: ninety two's All Ladies Do It. He also worked with

518
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: Pasolini on sixty seven's The Witches and other films include

519
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: seventy five's Lenore and seventy six is Plot of Fear,

520
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: Oh in seventy sevens Lost Soul, and eighty one's Phantom

521
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: of Love. This was his only collaboration with our gento

522
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: no Bummer. They work well together apparently. Yeah, all right,

523
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 2: Getting into the cast. We mentioned David Hemmings already. He

524
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: plays our protagonist, the character Marcus Hemmings with nineteen forty

525
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: one through two thousand and three British actor, director and

526
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: something of a nineteen sixties cultural icon in his own right.

527
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: He started out as a child actor and a singer

528
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: that really came into his own during the nineteen sixties

529
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: following his lead role in the film blow Up. This

530
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: is set in like mod London, so very stylish affair

531
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: and also very very eye catching poster art that I

532
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: think everyone's probably seen if you spend any amount of

533
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: time in like a movie theater or a video store.

534
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: Am I correct in thinking that a key plot detail

535
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: in blow Up is kind of like that that incriminating

536
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: detail that is at the beginning of so many Gallo

537
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: movies where there's like a the protagonist already has a

538
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: revelatory kind of clue in their possession, but they just

539
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 3: have to keep like zooming in to understand it.

540
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: Mm yeah, yeah, that's a good connection. Yeah, let's see.

541
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: Hemmings followed this up with see he was in the

542
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: film adaptation of the musical Camelot in sixty seven. Oh

543
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: and then a lot of you probably will recognize him

544
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: as the rebel leader dil Dano from sixty eight to

545
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: Barbarella if you don't remember specific plot elements or or

546
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: character names. The guy with the mustache from Barbarella.

547
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 3: Not John Philip Lawa's character correctly.

548
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: Not the angel yeah, and not Duran Durant, So let's see.

549
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: Hemmings filmography includes the various films that are now I

550
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: would say deeper cuts outside of their time, but that

551
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: seemed like they were a bigger deal when they came out,

552
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: some lower budget fair for sure, as well as roles

553
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: in noted blockbusters Towards the end of his career, so

554
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: he was in two thousands Gladiator, he was in two

555
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: thousand and two Gangs of New York, and his horror

556
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 2: output includes sixty six His Eye of the Devil, seventy

557
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: threes Voices, seventy nine thirst eighties Harlequin in eighty nine's

558
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: The Turn of the Screw. He was also a prolific

559
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: director in his own right, helming such films as seventy

560
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: eight's Just a Jigglo, that one's the one with David

561
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: Bowie in it, eighty one Survivor, and he also helmed

562
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: various TV show episodes.

563
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 3: Have you ever seen an Eye of the Devil?

564
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: I have not seen Eye of the Devil the movie

565
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: or the actual Eye of the Devil.

566
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 3: Maybe we should check that out sometimes. That one, it's

567
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 3: a little weird. It's got Sharon Tate in it, one

568
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: of her film roles, and it's got Donald Pleasance and

569
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 3: of course David Hemmings and David Niven. It's about like

570
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 3: a person who goes to a I don't know actually

571
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 3: now I'm forgetting some of the details, but somebody goes

572
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: out to like a country estate with the castle and

573
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 3: there is a be cult with hoods and robes all around.

574
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: And if I'm remembering the details correctly, David Hemmings plays

575
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: Sharon Tate's brother, and they're like a creepy, kind of

576
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 3: ambiguous brother and sister duo.

577
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, sounds interesting. Well, maybe we'll have to

578
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: come back to that one. As for Hemming's role here,

579
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: I think he's very good in this, and I think

580
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: we have to stress as well that while in Lesser

581
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: Jollo Fair this sort of character can be pretty trite,

582
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: you know, but Marcus here is far better developed. He's

583
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: an obsessive, flawed, often over confident man, and this I

584
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: think plays into what we were getting at. Like, here's

585
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: a character who early in the film is going to

586
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: acquire the pieces he needs to solve the mystery, but

587
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: it's not going to really be able to put it

588
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: all together. But he he has the abilities, and yet

589
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: he has overconfidence in his abilities at times to figure

590
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 2: it out. Like it's a great It all comes together

591
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: nicely on the screen.

592
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting that despite the dark and disturbing

593
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: subject matter that makes up the core plot of Deep Red,

594
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: the protagonist here, played by David Hemmings, is the subject

595
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 3: of a lot of fun. Like the movie has fun

596
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 3: at his expense. We are often laughing at his FOI.

597
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: Boles, Yeah, because he is he's flowed and over confident.

598
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: He's a bit of a sexist and gets called on

599
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: his sexism.

600
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 3: There's an actually I thought hilarious scene where he gets

601
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 3: beaten at arm wrestling after like yelling at his girlfriend

602
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 3: about how men are stronger than women, and then she

603
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 3: beats him at arm wrestling and he's like, you cheated,

604
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: it's not fair.

605
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. He gets to have multiple comedic scenes that

606
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 2: I thought were just perfectly balanced. Like, sometimes it gets

607
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: complicated because you have different eras, different different film cultures

608
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: that maybe have different ideas of how much humor you

609
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: should have in your horror film, and so sometimes things

610
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: can feel really out of balance, at least to us,

611
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: to modern viewers. But here it feels just about right.

612
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: Even though this is a dark, deep, and in many

613
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: way statistic film, the humor doesn't feel out of place.

614
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: It feels like a chance to sort of catch your

615
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,479
Speaker 2: breath and maybe forget where you were for a minute

616
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: or two before things get dark again.

617
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 3: Well it's grand gain, y'all. You know. It's the hot

618
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 3: and cold showers where the idea is that you would

619
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 3: get a you know, a frightening, disturbing short play followed

620
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: by a comedy sketch, and so it you know, takes

621
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 3: you back and forth and the contrast makes each one

622
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 3: more exciting and refreshing.

623
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: All right. Up next, we have another actor that we

624
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: already mentioned, Daria Nickelode, playing the character Gianna. This is

625
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: our nosy reporter, another role that we've just come to

626
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: expect from genre films, but here she's a strong, confident

627
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: character played by Italian actress and frequent Argento collaborator Nickelode, also,

628
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: of course, one time a romantic partner and mother of

629
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 2: their daughter Aja Argento. She lived nineteen forty nine through

630
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and she appeared in five films directed by

631
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: Argento between seventy five and eighty seven. We have Deep Red,

632
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: but also Inferno, Tinebray, Phenomena and Opera. In fact, I

633
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: believe the two of them met on this film, so

634
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 2: professional relationship giving away to romantic relationship. She also has

635
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: screenplay credits on Suspiria and Inferno, but may have contributed

636
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: to others in an uncredited capacity during their time together.

637
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: Her other film credits include Mario Bava's final film Shock

638
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: from seventy seven.

639
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember if I've seen that one.

640
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: I have not that I have not seen Bava's Mario

641
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: Bava's later.

642
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: Work Beyond the Door too. What I just looked it up,

643
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 3: and it's known it was released in the US as

644
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 3: Beyond the Door too, which is hilarious because have you

645
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,240
Speaker 3: seen Beyond the Door?

646
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: No, this is a foro Italian film, but I'm not

647
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 2: familiar with this. What's the deal on it?

648
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 3: Beyond the Door is an Italian ripoff of the Exorsus.

649
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 3: That is we I think maybe we should watch it?

650
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: Oh?

651
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, it's pretty wild.

652
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: We could probably. It's kind of like with Jaws. We

653
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: could probably do a solid month or many months of

654
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: just exorcist ripoffs from other countries, because I've seen some

655
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: some Spanish exorcist ripoffs. All right, we'll remember that one.

656
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 2: But as for Nickelode here, solid presence here. I think

657
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 2: she's great.

658
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, and I would say probably, especially if

659
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 3: you watch this longer cut that I watched, which has

660
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: all these restored scenes, and again, I really get the

661
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: impression that most of what's restored has to do with

662
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 3: her character, building her out more.

663
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 2: All right, let's see up next. We have the character Carlo,

664
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 2: played by Gabrielle Lavia born nineteen forty two. Talent and

665
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: a well known Italian stage actor, active on screen and

666
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: TV from about sixty six through twenty twenty two, and

667
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: as a director and writer from eighty three through twenty

668
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: twenty one. In fact, he directed, co wrote, and starred

669
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: in a nineteen eighty three film titled Believe This is

670
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: the Prince of Homburg and an historical drama that was

671
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 2: apparently well regarded upon release. But I see few signs

672
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: of it today. Maybe it's more prominent, prominently discussed on

673
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: Italian language websites and so forth, but like on letterboxed

674
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: and so forth, I just don't see people talking about

675
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: what this film even really is. But it looked like

676
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: it was nominated for various awards when it came out,

677
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: As is often the case, sometimes it's the genre films

678
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 2: that of course resonate internationally in a stronger fashion. And

679
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: so yeah. Lavia's other films include nineteen seventy fours Beyond

680
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: the Door, which I had in the notes here and

681
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 2: we just talked about. He was also in a film

682
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: the same year titled The Tempter. He was in Inferno,

683
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: playing a different character, also named Carlo. I think, okay,

684
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: it's just a nod back to this film. He's an

685
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 2: a don't remember who that is. I have seen Inferno,

686
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: but I think it's a supporting character. I don't remember

687
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: him either from it. I think I've seen Inferno, but

688
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: it's been a while. He's an eighty three Zetter and

689
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: he's in another Argenta film, Sleepless from two thousand and one.

690
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: So Lavia here really solid, and I would say that

691
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: his scenes with Himmings especially have a lot of character.

692
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if they had any additional scenes together

693
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: in the extended version that you watched or not, but

694
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: the ones I saw they had great chemistry.

695
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 3: I thought they did well. Actually I can't be sure,

696
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 3: but I think the version you saw probably didn't have

697
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 3: the scene where they after they talk, they go out

698
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 3: together and they go to the bar and they play

699
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 3: piano together on the same piano.

700
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 2: I didn't know. Now I really want to see that

701
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: because that's one of the whole things is they're both

702
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 2: pianists and they have this discussion about how they have

703
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: different philosophies and politics regarding their profession. So Carlo is

704
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 2: playing piano to survive, where as as Marcus is more

705
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: of a he's a professional. It's his career and he's

706
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 2: he's ascending via the piano.

707
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 3: The way Carlo explains it is he says that he

708
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 3: says that Marcus is a bourgeois artist who you know,

709
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 3: is a professional. Yeah, he does it because he has ideas.

710
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 3: Whereas he says about himself, he says, I, Carlo am

711
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 3: a proletarian artist. I play music because it's the only

712
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 3: way I can make money, and thus my music is

713
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 3: actually more pure than yours.

714
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so Carlo. We'll discuss more about Carlo when

715
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: we get into the plot. But you know, obviously a

716
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 2: complex character that is ultimately just fascinating in the way

717
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: that it's realized on the screen.

718
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: I quite sympathetic and tragic, even before some of the

719
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 3: developments that come at the end of the film, like

720
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: early on when there's just scenes of them talking together,

721
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: when Carlo is drinking. You know, Carlo is like drunk

722
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 3: out in a piazza and they're having a conversation together,

723
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: and there is a great kind of wise sadness about him.

724
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 3: It really works.

725
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, all right. We mentioned there was a psychic

726
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: in the film. The psychic is the character Helga played

727
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: by Masha Morel born nineteen forty. She's a German psychic

728
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 2: played here by a French model turned actress of Russian

729
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: and Ukrainian descent. She was already an established name in

730
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 2: eurocinema at this point, having worked with multiple big name directors.

731
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: She'd worked with Jean lu Gotter a married Woman in

732
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: sixty four, She'd worked with Louis Bounel Belldajour in sixty seven,

733
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: and then right after this she'd worked with She would

734
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: go on to work with Renier Werner of Fastpender in

735
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: seventy six in the movie Chinese Roulette. Other films of

736
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: note include eighty five's Vagabond and seventy five's Last Stop

737
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: on the Night Train. So a stylish and doomed character,

738
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: as we'll discuss our psychic discovers who the killer is

739
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 2: way too early in the film, even before there are

740
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: any present day murders, So you know it's not going

741
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 2: to end well for her.

742
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 3: I think we're going to have an amazing discussion about

743
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 3: what it means the way she takes a sip of water.

744
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there's a lot of water falling out of

745
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: people's mouths in this movie. It was a distinctive choice.

746
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: I think I've noticed it three times. Hers is the

747
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: most pronounced I think in a couple of the murder

748
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 2: or attack scenes, we see either water or some other

749
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 2: liquid that is not blood coming out of someone's mouth.

750
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 3: Interesting, okay, yeah, and we can check in about that later.

751
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we we have some additional investigators. So

752
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 2: we have Professor Giordani played by Gloco Mai who lived

753
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty through twenty twenty four. This is our the

754
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 2: character is our parapsychologist, and the actor is an Italian

755
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: actor and theater director who was a specially active in

756
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 2: Shakespearean theater. Again, one of these characters who I think

757
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: was far more active on the stage in Italy, and

758
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 2: this is perhaps his best known film, certainly internationally. The

759
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 2: stage is where we would find most of his prestige.

760
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: But he's very good here and is at times kind

761
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: of our central character. Like there's a point in the

762
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: film not long before he dies, really where he's like

763
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: out on his own side quest and Marcus listen, even

764
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: along for the ride.

765
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's doing some investigating and he figures out a

766
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 3: message written by one of the previous murder victims. And

767
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to be honest, I did not figure out

768
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 3: what that message was or what it contributed to the solution, did.

769
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 2: You think, Well, he saw the full so basically, as

770
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: we'll discuss the situation is, he figures out that the

771
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: murder victim wrote on the steamed up mirror wall wrote something,

772
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: but we don't get to read the full ride out.

773
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 2: We get to read like the killer is. And I

774
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 2: was to assume, maybe this is I'm interpreting it incorrectly,

775
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 2: but I thought he read the whole thing, so like

776
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: he knew who the killer was, or he had some

777
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: vital clue and he didn't get to pass that on

778
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 2: to chief investigator Marcus okay, unofficial investigation hierarchy.

779
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 3: That would all make sense. I just I never got

780
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: any indication that what she had written was the killer's name. Yeah,

781
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 3: I just saw like she wrote something, and then we

782
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 3: never get a good look at it.

783
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: Very stylish scene. Not the only film with great use

784
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: of mirrors, but one of them in this movie. All right, Now,

785
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 2: there's another professor that's kind of helping out somewhere in

786
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 2: the parapsychology department. And this is the character Professor Bardie,

787
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: played by Piro Matt Singhi. I'm not sure what his

788
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: dates happened to be. His other credits include seventy four

789
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: is the night Porter. Apparently he was a graphic designer

790
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 2: or illustrator and art director who just kind of pops

791
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: up in the corners of this film and a few others.

792
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 3: He always has a vaguely comic presence. I don't know

793
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: quite why, but yeah, in all the scenes he's in,

794
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 3: he's kind of there smirking in the background. Isn't he

795
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 3: the guy who's like, oh, by the way, this song

796
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 3: you heard, you should go look up a book about

797
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 3: that song. That'll tell you who the killer is.

798
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, so he has some important suggestions for the

799
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: investigation yet, but I don't think he He doesn't even

800
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 2: We don't even bother to murder this guy, right, I

801
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 2: don't murder not in my cut.

802
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: Though, there are some some implied murders in the movie,

803
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 3: do you know what I'm talking about? For example, the

804
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 3: maid who is cleaning up Amanda Righetti's house, remember this.

805
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: After Professor Jordani leaves, we see the maid like hear

806
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 3: a sound down the hall and she's like, what is

807
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 3: that and then starts to go investigate, and then we

808
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 3: never see her again. So I think there are at

809
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: least some characters who we understand have probably been murdered,

810
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 3: but we never find out that's true.

811
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 2: That's true. Now we mentioned Carlo earlier, Carlo's mother often

812
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 2: shows up. Joke. Does Carlo's mother have a name? I

813
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: think on IMDb she just listened to Carlo's mother.

814
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: I don't remember this from the movie, but on the

815
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 3: wiki that says her name is Martha, So that sounds right.

816
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 3: So Carlo's mother is Martha. We have some interesting little

817
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 3: meetings with her earlier in the film, where Marcus is

818
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: looking for Carlo and goes to her apartment, and she

819
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 3: keeps thinking he's an engineer instead of a pianist. Of

820
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 3: like a common mistake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she also

821
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 3: recurring humor. She likes to she seems a little bit,

822
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 3: a little bit confused about what's going on, and she

823
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: often refers to the fact that she used to be

824
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: an actress.

825
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's a nice little detail because the actress

826
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 2: playing her is a classic Italian actress. This is Clara Kalamai,

827
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: who of nineteen oh nine through nineteen ninety eight. Her

828
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: credits go back to the late thirties and she was

829
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 2: acclaimed for roles in a string of nineteen forties historical dramas.

830
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 2: This is getting and we're talking like big pictures, like

831
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 2: not the genre stuff from Italian cinema that I'm more

832
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,879
Speaker 2: informed about. But I was reading that she's considered kind

833
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: of a bridge between two distinct periods of Italian cinema,

834
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 2: the White Telephone era, which is like this escapist era

835
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 2: of thirties and forties Italian cinema with white telephones, apparently

836
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 2: serving as a stark contrast between the style and the

837
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: wealth on screen and the grim realities of the war

838
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: torn fascist state. And then she goes on from this

839
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,959
Speaker 2: into neorealism, Italian neorealism, which emerges post warld War two.

840
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: So by the time Deep Red comes out, she'd already

841
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 2: pretty much retired but came back for this film, and

842
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: I think she did one other film before retiring for good.

843
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 2: But Argento apparently wanted an actress with like a classic

844
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 2: cinematic appeal, because in part because that's kind of what

845
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: she's playing. She's kind of playing. I'm not saying she's

846
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 2: playing herself, but she's playing like maybe some take on

847
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: the sort of actress that she was. All Right, let's

848
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: see other characters of note. I'm going to try and

849
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: skip ahead here. You know, we have characters that come

850
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 2: up that are important. They catch a murder or two,

851
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: but then we move on. There's a character named Massimo

852
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 2: introduced as Carlo's romantic partner, played here by Geraldine Hooper.

853
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: So it's an interesting bit of casting because we have

854
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 2: a female actor playing a character with a masculine Italian name,

855
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: but whose gender identity would seem to be feminine or

856
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 2: non binary. Hooper was a British actress with a handful

857
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: of mostly bit parts in such films as seventies Queens

858
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: of Evil and seventy one's they have changed their face,

859
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 2: but very small role at least in the cut I watch.

860
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if this character has additional scenes. We

861
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 2: don't really get to know this character at least in

862
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 2: the version of the film I watch, but her performance

863
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 2: plays an important role.

864
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting scene. So the setup is that

865
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 3: Marcus is looking for his friend Carlo. He goes to

866
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: Carlo's mother's apartment. That's when we get this weird meeting

867
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: where she's like, I used to be an actress, but

868
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 3: somehow she sends him to this other apartment where Carlo

869
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: might be found and when Marcus gets there, he meets

870
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 3: this character Massimo, and you think, based on the very

871
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 3: first interaction, like it seemed to me like, oh, no,

872
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 3: is this being set up as kind of a homophobic

873
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: reaction From what I from the context in the scene,

874
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 3: it made it seem like this is the first time

875
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 3: that Marcus discovers that Carlo is gay, but he actually

876
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: in the scene doesn't really go that way. He comes

877
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 3: in and then he kind of tries to be a

878
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 3: good friend, and then like together Marcus and Massimo talk

879
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 3: about Carlo's problems and how they're like both trying to

880
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: help him.

881
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a very humanizing scene and kind

882
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: of a breath of fresh air. I'm really a breath

883
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: of fresh air. Though at this point in the film,

884
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: like you're still in a genre movie. If you haven't

885
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: seen it before, you don't know how things are gonna

886
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: ultimately land. Yeah, but looking back on it still, I

887
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: think it was a very nice scene.

888
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,439
Speaker 3: I would say that Jallo films overall are not known

889
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 3: for having super cool thoughts about gender and sexuality.

890
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: No, I mean you can basically say that of genre

891
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: films from throughout the nineteen seventies, So but not the

892
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: place you're gonna find it. But you do find it sometimes,

893
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: but it's just it's an exception when you do this movie.

894
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 3: Though it didn't end up going in a bad direction

895
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,760
Speaker 3: that it felt like it might be going. It actually

896
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 3: ended up being kind of like a sweet and interesting scene.

897
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it'll be interesting to discuss this

898
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 2: once all the cards are on the table, because I

899
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 2: believe this film is intentionally subversive in that, like it

900
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 2: is taking certain genre staples and stereotypes, cinematic stereotypes, and

901
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 2: also stereotypes that are probably in the viewer's mind as

902
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: well either, I mean, stereotypes that they're bringing into a

903
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 2: cinematic experience and probably bringing into real life as well,

904
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 2: and then taking those and then subverting expectations. So yeah,

905
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 2: we'll get back to that. Let's see rounding of the cast.

906
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 2: Just a couple of small roles that I just want

907
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: to mention because of their connection to other horror films.

908
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 2: Nicoletta Elmi is in it playing Olga. This is the

909
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 2: creepy redheaded girl from Footprints on the Moon that we

910
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 2: watched last year.

911
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 3: Yep, actually in both movies, if I'm remembering her right.

912
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 3: In Footprints on the Moon. It's a character who shows

913
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 3: up to be like a kind of strange, haunting child

914
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 3: presence who had first seen weird and threatening, but then

915
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 3: they turn out to be harmless.

916
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think she gets slapped around by the

917
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: protagonist Footprints, and here she just gets kind of like

918
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: strong armed. Yeah.

919
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 3: In both movies she's treated badly by adults Summer, but

920
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 3: here she ultimately ends up being the able to give

921
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 3: the protagonists the clue that, oh, if we just go

922
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: to a certain middle school and look at every drawing

923
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 3: ever made by a child there, we'll find the drawing

924
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 3: that will unlock the mystery.

925
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: That's right, And they do. But yeah, fun Little just

926
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 2: sort of almost an Easter egg for horror fans because

927
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: she was also in Bava's Bay of Blood as well

928
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 2: as Baron Blood. She's in seventy three's Flesh for Frankenstein,

929
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: and she's the grown up redhead in nineteen eighty five

930
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 2: Demons Now, and even Trashire Deep Cut. Though there's a

931
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: scene where we see a fruit vendor in the street,

932
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 2: a very distinctive looking man. This is Salvatory Bacco, who

933
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 2: lived nineteen thirty two through nineteen eighty four. He was

934
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: an actual flower vendor outside of some Italian film studios,

935
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: but then got cast because of his distinctive looks, frequently

936
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 2: cast as heavies and beast men, cave men and the like.

937
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 2: He was definitely in some sludge in his day, and

938
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 2: I think some like spaghetti westerns as well.

939
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I'm not super familiar, but well.

940
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: He pops up. Let's see the cinema. We have to

941
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 2: mention the cinematographer because of the look of this film.

942
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 2: We can't reference everybody, but Luigi Cuvolar lived nineteen twenty

943
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 2: seven through twenty thirteen, noted Italian cinematographer who worked with

944
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 2: the likes of Billy Wilder, Paul Morrissey and Luccio Fulci.

945
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 2: And then finally the music. We've already talked about this

946
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 2: a little bit. There are two individuals quote to There's Goblin,

947
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: of course, which we'll get to, but then also we

948
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 2: have Giorgio Gazzlini, who is credited as well, who lived

949
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty nine through twenty fourteen. He was a composer

950
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 2: and jazz pianist, and he apparently composed the initial score

951
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: and then our Gento wasn't really happy with all of it,

952
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 2: and said, okay, let's bring in Pink Floyd. I don't

953
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: know the full I don't know he actually reached out

954
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 2: to Pink Floyd or he was like, we need something

955
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: like Pink Floyd. But this leads to him checking out

956
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: a more local prog rock group by the name of Goblin,

957
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 2: headed up by Claudio Seminetti born nineteen fifty two.

958
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 3: It was destiny, a match made in heaven.

959
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: So some of the GOSLINI tracks apparently remain, it's like

960
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 2: three or four tracks. Some of them have been re

961
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: recorded by Goblin. So I'm just guessing here. I'm no

962
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 2: score expert, but I think maybe the indeed the jazzy

963
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 2: or piano numbers, or perhaps his compositions, And of course

964
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 2: you know Goblin. When you hear Goblin that key deep

965
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 2: red theme song that gets stuck in your head, you

966
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: know that's totally their work. This is interesting because this

967
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 2: is of course, this is of course Argento's first collaboration with Goblin,

968
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 2: and indeed Goblin's first film score. Many more would follow.

969
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 2: They would go on to become a huge part of

970
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 2: the sound of Jallo and Italian genre cinema of the

971
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 2: seventies and eighties seminettes work as a solo artist as well.

972
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 2: We've previously discussed him independently as an independent artist on

973
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: our episodes concerning Let's See eighty three's Conquest from Fulci.

974
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,439
Speaker 2: I'm wearing my Conquest shirt today, and then eighty six

975
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: is hands of Steel.

976
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 3: If only I could be wearing my Hands of Steel today.

977
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 2: You know their hands of Steel shirts out there somewhere. Yeah,

978
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: what can you say?

979
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 3: Amazing score, right, wonderful. In fact, if you're ready to

980
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 3: switch over and talk about the plot a bit, one

981
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,919
Speaker 3: of the first notes I had was about the opening music. Yeah,

982
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,240
Speaker 3: let's do it so in general about the plot section.

983
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 3: I think maybe we should do some close narration of

984
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 3: the opening few scenes and then shift to a more

985
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 3: general discussion for the rest of the movie. But yeah,

986
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 3: so we open the film with music playing over credits,

987
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 3: and visually it's a pretty straightforward credit sequence. It's sans

988
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 3: serif text on a black background, and I love the

989
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 3: main musical theme of Deep Red that's playing over this.

990
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 3: I think it is really interesting how the primary riff

991
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 3: that you hear repeated in this song is sort of

992
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 3: the structure that everything else builds around. Is a musical

993
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 3: phrase on a harpsichord that I think communicates this feeling

994
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 3: of stuttering or disordered thought. The way this riff has

995
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 3: always sounded to me is the musical equivalent of somebody rapidly,

996
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 3: repeatedly saying the first few words of sentences without finishing them.

997
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,760
Speaker 3: So if you can kind of match what I'm about

998
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 3: to say to the riff in the song, it's like

999
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 3: I would, would you if I would? If we could.

1000
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 3: It's that kind of feeling.

1001
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 2: Hmmm, Okay, now you said this is this is on

1002
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: a harpsichord, though this is not synth.

1003
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 3: Well they're synth in the song, but the main riff

1004
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 3: you're probably hearing in your head that thing, well you'll

1005
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 3: get that on a couple of instruments in the track.

1006
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 3: So I think at one point it might be being

1007
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 3: plucked on an acoustic or classical guitar. I'm not sure,

1008
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 3: but the main version that sticks out with the high

1009
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 3: pitched ringing is on a harpsichord. And I looked this up.

1010
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 3: They used a real harpsichord here, so it's not a synthesizer.

1011
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 3: It's a real harpsichord. Being played by Goblin keyboardist Claudio Simonetti.

1012
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 3: And then below that you've got you've got a rhythm section.

1013
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 3: Of course, you've got a bassline that's played on an

1014
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 3: electric bass with this great, really plucky, hollow percussive sound.

1015
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 3: And then up top there is an extremely high pitched,

1016
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 3: almost painful to the ears lead melody played on synthesizer

1017
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 3: with this metallic whistle like voicing. I'm not sure what

1018
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 3: kind of synthesizer this is played on. It might be

1019
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 3: a minimog. I think they did use a minimog for

1020
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 3: some of the synth in this movie. But the way

1021
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 3: the high pitched lead and the bass fit together, they

1022
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 3: almost form these counter melodies playing off of this machine,

1023
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 3: like stuttering from the harpsichord, and it's just so cool.

1024
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 3: I couldn't love this theme more.

1025
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I said, I've been listening to this particular

1026
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 2: number for years, popping up in mixes and so forth.

1027
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 2: It's just so good.

1028
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. And also when we hear more of this theme

1029
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 3: later on, it will introduce other instruments, so you end

1030
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 3: up getting organ. I wonder, I don't remember for sure,

1031
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 3: but the organ might be playing on one of those

1032
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 3: on a Leslie speaker on a rotating speaker that creates

1033
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 3: this whirling effect, and you get a electric guitar and

1034
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 3: drums and it builds up to you this bombastic crescendo.

1035
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 3: But anyway, in the opening, before we get to this

1036
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 3: big part of the song, we actually cut away to

1037
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 3: an opening scene. It's the first action we see. I'll

1038
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 3: come back and describe that in just a second. But

1039
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 3: one of the things, Rob, if this makes any sense,

1040
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 3: one of the things I like so much about the

1041
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 3: Deep Red theme is how it feels old world and

1042
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 3: new world at the same time. The harpsichord creates this

1043
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 3: feeling of antiquity. It very much fits with all of

1044
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 3: the old architecture and sculpture that we see throughout the film.

1045
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 3: It's very baroque, almost like you know js Bach, and

1046
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 3: yet it's a proud rock song. So you have this

1047
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 3: electric bass, maybe with some kind of modulation on it.

1048
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 3: You've got the drums and the synthesizers, and it's groovy

1049
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 3: and it is very rocking, but it has this baroque

1050
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 3: harpsichord thing as like the main texture that runs through

1051
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 3: the whole song.

1052
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 2: Okay, this is good. It's this interesting analysis.

1053
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 3: Okay, So anyway, what's this opening scene that we get

1054
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 3: in the middle of the credits. It seems to be

1055
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 3: a flashback. We're looking at the interior of a house

1056
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 3: sometime in the nineteen fifties, seems to be in Italy,

1057
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 3: and it's a room decorated for Christmas. This room will

1058
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 3: play play a big role in the film.

1059
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, a Christmas film. I can't believe we didn't consider

1060
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 2: this one for Last Night.

1061
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 3: We should have. So you get a tree with a

1062
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 3: bunch of ornaments and tensil, and there is a dining

1063
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 3: room table with a bunch of half empty wine glasses

1064
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 3: on it. There's a record player. Rob did you notice

1065
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 3: that the crazy wallpaper and the pattern on the dining

1066
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 3: room tablecloth almost look like they match. I really assumed

1067
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 3: in they don't actually match that that would have been amazing,

1068
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 3: but they're close. And then so we're looking at this

1069
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 3: room at Christmas time. And the opening shot here in

1070
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 3: the room is weird because it is it is shot

1071
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 3: from like three inches above the hardwood floor, almost like

1072
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 3: we're seeing the room from the perspective of someone lying

1073
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 3: down on the floor. And then we hear a child's

1074
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 3: voice singing a creepy song without lyrics. It's just some

1075
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 3: la la las. But this song we will hear it

1076
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 3: a bunch of times in the film, not nearly as

1077
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:24,479
Speaker 3: good as the Goblin song. And then suddenly we see

1078
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 3: shadows on the wall. There are two human silhouettes. One

1079
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 3: shadow is stabbing the other one with a knife. We

1080
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 3: don't see who's casting the shadows. And then after the

1081
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 3: stabbing is finished, the perpetrator relaxes posture and walks away,

1082
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 3: and then we see a bloody knife clatter to the

1083
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 3: floor right in front of the camera, and then into

1084
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 3: frame step a pair of feet, children's feet, so it's

1085
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 3: a child in black shoes and tall socks walking up

1086
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 3: to this cast a side knife as if to pick

1087
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 3: it up. And then the scene ends and we just

1088
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 3: smash back to credits and Goblin.

1089
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 2: So we've established a murder in the past before we

1090
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 2: fast forward into the present day.

1091
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 3: Even in the nineteen fifties, though, did kids wear like,

1092
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 3: you know, knee high socks and shoes like this at home?

1093
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 3: This just seems uncomfortable, don't you. When you get home.

1094
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: It's Christmas or some I mean, and their gifts still

1095
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 2: under the tree. So I'm to assume this is maybe

1096
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: Christmas Eve. I don't know when the depends when the

1097
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 2: presents are opened, given the household tradition, but maybe it

1098
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 2: was a special dinner and therefore everyone's stressed up.

1099
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,919
Speaker 3: So we get a scene where we meet our protagonist,

1100
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 3: Marcus Daley, who is a jazz piano player, a band leader,

1101
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 3: and a music conservatory instructor. We learn later that he's

1102
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 3: originally from England but now living in Rome. And when

1103
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 3: we meet Marcus, he is rehearsing with his jazz band

1104
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 3: in an awesome I'm at first I did not know

1105
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 3: what the space was, but I looked it up. I'm

1106
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 3: gonna get to that in just a second. It looks

1107
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 3: like the inner sanctum of a temple of Jupiter. It's

1108
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 3: this huge circular space ringed with marble columns, and then

1109
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 3: light falling down from a skylight above, and Marcus has

1110
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 3: his piano pushed right up against this stone box in

1111
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 3: the middle of the room that looks like an altar.

1112
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 3: So I looked up the actual location. It's kind of

1113
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 3: unbelievable they shot this at a real place in Rome.

1114
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 3: It is the fourth century mausoleum of Constantina, The daughter

1115
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 3: of Constantine the first, the first Christian emperor. So his

1116
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 3: adult daughter's grave here her you know, tomb is and

1117
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 3: this was the mausoleum was later turned into a church.

1118
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 3: And then they actually shot a jazz practice scene for

1119
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 3: Deep Red Inside.

1120
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 2: Oh wow. Now I have to note the version of

1121
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 2: the film I watch does not feature scene. We go

1122
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 2: straight to the sequence afterwards, but it does. This sounds

1123
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 2: stunning and I love this detail. You're going to get

1124
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 2: into in a bit here that perhaps a meta commentary

1125
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 2: on the film and horror films in general.

1126
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 3: So they're playing music and Marcus stops his band in

1127
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 3: the middle of a song to give them some direction.

1128
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 3: He says, you know, you guys are doing a great job,

1129
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 3: good effort. But there's a problem. He says, it's too good.

1130
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 3: You're playing is too precise, it's too formal. He says,

1131
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 3: this is a quote. It should be more trashy. And

1132
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 3: he explains that the kind of jazz he's interested in

1133
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,439
Speaker 3: playing was invented in Brothels and it should sound that way.

1134
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 3: And so I was just thinking, wait a minute, is

1135
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 3: this a meta commentary. It's like a great way to

1136
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 3: open a jallo film.

1137
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: Either way, needs more trash.

1138
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 3: But coming back to the fact that so this scene

1139
01:04:55,560 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 3: wasn't in your version. You know, I've seen people talk

1140
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 3: about the virtues of the different cuts of the film.

1141
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 3: This was one of the scenes with Italian audio, so

1142
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 3: I think it was definitely added back in for this

1143
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 3: particular release. I was watching, and yeah, I think maybe

1144
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 3: you could go either way. Like I like the perhaps

1145
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 3: meta commentary about needing more trashiness. I think it's nice

1146
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 3: to see our protagonist in his element before we meet

1147
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 3: him on the night that changes his life. But I

1148
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 3: would agree that it is probably a stronger, more vigorous,

1149
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 3: and grabbier way to start the film if we go

1150
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 3: straight from the credits to what comes next, which is

1151
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 3: the psychic demonstration scene.

1152
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 2: Right the parapsychology conference that is of course central to

1153
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 2: the plot and also just visually stunning. We go right

1154
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 2: from the credits into this just visually stunning sequence with

1155
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 2: some amazing Hitchcock esque long tracking shots. They take us

1156
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 2: into the auditorium where the parapsychology conference is taking place.

1157
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 3: And then later out into the bathroom.

1158
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you're out into the bathroom. But yeah,

1159
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 2: it's also I think key because this is a very

1160
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 2: red room. I mean, the rosso here is very profundo.

1161
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this was shot in another location I looked up.

1162
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 3: This was the Teatro Carignano in Turin, which several of

1163
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 3: the locations in this movie are in Turin or to Reno, Italy.

1164
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 3: So this is a beautiful theater with this red and

1165
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 3: gold color theme, built in the late eighteenth century. Apparently

1166
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 3: at one point it burned down but then was restored.

1167
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 3: Overwhelming sensations of like opera and blood and champagne. It's

1168
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 3: really cool space. And yeah, so here's where this we're

1169
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 3: what we see, based on a sign, is going to

1170
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 3: be the World Parapsychology Congress. First we see the poster

1171
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 3: and then suddenly we're inside the lobby for the event,

1172
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 3: and we're just gliding along past the ushers toward the

1173
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 3: auditorium and we hear a professor's voice delivering a lecture

1174
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 3: about telepathy. There are a lot of wonderful moving camera

1175
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 3: shots in this film, but I would like to note

1176
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 3: a special eerie quality they have, and this one illustrates

1177
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 3: it nicely. So you've got to here. I guess I

1178
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 3: don't know if it's a dolly shot or a steady

1179
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 3: cam shot, but it's a smooth, gliding moving camera going

1180
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 3: through the space of the lobby into the auditorium, and

1181
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 3: it's shot at human eye level, so we get a

1182
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 3: strong feeling of moving point of view. We're seeing through

1183
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,959
Speaker 3: somebody's eyes as they move through this scene, but there's

1184
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 3: no indication whatsoever of whose point of view we're getting.

1185
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 3: We are seeing through the eyes of a mystery, and

1186
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 3: that's kind of an unsettling feeling in itself. We don't

1187
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 3: know whose perspective we're sharing. But then also there are

1188
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 3: these other eerie things the way, Rob do you remember

1189
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 3: the shot as the camera approaches the auditorium, the curtains

1190
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 3: in the door to the event suddenly part without being

1191
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 3: touched as the camera approaches them. It's as if these

1192
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 3: portals are just opening in front of us by magic.

1193
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 3: It's kind of like we got movie signs, you know, yeah, exactly,

1194
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 3: the doors are just opening. But then also the camera

1195
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 3: movement is very smooth. It doesn't have the bounce that

1196
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,600
Speaker 3: we associate with a human point of view when we

1197
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 3: are walking through a room, so it's got this agentic

1198
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 3: human point of view quality, but it's gliding smoothly through

1199
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 3: the air, so it seems a little unnatural.

1200
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've seen this referred to what is

1201
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 2: a decoupled POV shot. So creates this weird sense of like,

1202
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 2: whose point of view is this? Is this the killer?

1203
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 2: Is this a ghost? Or is this like something a

1204
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 2: little more vague and something that is at once a

1205
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 2: character in the film and also just like a sort

1206
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 2: of an extension of us the viewer in a cinematic world.

1207
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 3: So we come into the auditorium and there is a

1208
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 3: parapsychologist named a Professor Giordani on stage delivering a lecture

1209
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 3: on telepathic communication, and then beside him at this table

1210
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 3: speaker's table, or a couple of other people. One of them,

1211
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 3: we will learn, is a psychic named Helga Ullman. I

1212
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 3: want to read part of this lecture that Giordani is

1213
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 3: giving because I thought this was interesting. He says, this

1214
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 3: is in translation, because this part of the lecture in

1215
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 3: my cut was in Italian, but I looked up a translation,

1216
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 3: so he says quote. The phenomenon, as confirmed by the

1217
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 3: most recent studies, is not limited to higher species, but

1218
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 3: includes both vertebrates and invertebrates, butterflies, termites, zebras, all these

1219
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 3: animals and many others use telepathy to give orders and

1220
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 3: exchange information. This fact is well known and can be

1221
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 3: easily demonstrated. For example, if we cage a butterfly within

1222
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 3: a few hours, it will be able to attract numerous

1223
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 3: other butterflies that, at its call will flock together in

1224
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 3: rapid flocks, even covering several kilometers. This is telepathy, a

1225
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 3: faculty that newborns possess well in their first months in

1226
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 3: the first months of their lives, but which they lose

1227
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 3: as with the passing of the years they acquire the

1228
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 3: means of verbal communication. There are some exceptions. Certain individuals,

1229
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 3: for reasons still unknown to us, do not lose this faculty. So,

1230
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 3: as we mentioned already, this is a movie in which

1231
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 3: psychic powers are real, but they're not just real. We

1232
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 3: get a scientific explanation of how they're supposed to work.

1233
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 3: Some animals possess these power or I guess not how

1234
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 3: they work, but some things about when they work. Some

1235
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 3: animals possess these powers. All humans are born psychics, but

1236
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 3: we lose our psychic powers somehow when we acquire language.

1237
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 3: Except in a few rare exceptions, a few people can

1238
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,639
Speaker 3: gain language, but still keep the power to read minds,

1239
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 3: and they say, Helga Ullman, the psychic sitting beside him

1240
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 3: is one of these exceptions. Interesting. I don't know, do

1241
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 3: you know if this is a common theory that like

1242
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 3: parapsychologists had, that like everybody's born psychic, but you lose

1243
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 3: it when you learn words.

1244
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 2: I have not explored it myself. It sounds convincingly like

1245
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 2: something you would hear from parapsychologists, and you know, it's

1246
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 2: kind of a neat idea. I guess the idea being

1247
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 2: that humans are all psychic and then we lose again.

1248
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 2: We lose the psychic power because we acquire language, and

1249
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 2: therefore there's no need to communicate psychically anymore, and it's

1250
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 2: like an energy intensive thing that we no longer need

1251
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 2: to do, or just all babies lose Or is it

1252
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,680
Speaker 2: because we lost our psychic abilities so we had to

1253
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 2: develop language. I guess you could look at it either way.

1254
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 2: This film's not really concerned with such questions, but stop provoking.

1255
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,560
Speaker 3: There might be something going on with it thematically. I

1256
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,760
Speaker 3: don't know something about the idea of perceptive powers that

1257
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 3: are lost or something that we can't see once we

1258
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 3: start to talk about things that, like the talking clouds

1259
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 3: our minds in some way, I see that maybe we'll

1260
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 3: come back to that possibly, But anyway, so we go

1261
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 3: on with Helga here, and Helga starts to talk. She

1262
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 3: explains that her powers, she says, my powers have nothing

1263
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 3: to do with magic, and they are not fortune telling,

1264
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 3: she says, in fact, she has no ability whatsoever to

1265
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 3: predict or see the future. Instead, what she sees are

1266
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 3: people's thoughts, other people's thoughts at the moment they arise,

1267
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 3: or sometimes, she says, if the thoughts are very strong,

1268
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 3: she can detect them after they have arisen, she says,

1269
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 3: quote for they linger about the room like cobwebs, and

1270
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 3: she does a brief demonstration where she reads the mind

1271
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,040
Speaker 3: of a man in the third row. She tells him,

1272
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 3: you know, here's what you've got in your pockets. Here's

1273
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 3: some personal details about you, and he confirms that she

1274
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 3: got everything right. But in the middle of this demonstration,

1275
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 3: suddenly Helga is seized by something powerful and she starts

1276
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 3: to gasp and cry out in fear and pain, and

1277
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 3: Professor Jordani, next to her, asks her if she's all right,

1278
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 3: and she says she says, it was I can't explain it.

1279
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 3: Something strange and sharp, like the prick of a thorn.

1280
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 3: It upset me. But it's all right now. But it's

1281
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 3: not all right because she gasps again, Oh Dad, it's

1282
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 3: in there again. And she she's like, I can feel

1283
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,959
Speaker 3: death in this room. I feel a presence, a twisted

1284
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 3: mind sending me thoughts, perverted, murderous thoughts. Go away. You

1285
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 3: have killed and you will kill again.

1286
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:38,920
Speaker 2: And this is where she has the airplane drinking problem,

1287
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 2: where she tries to drink water and it just falls

1288
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 2: out of her mouth.

1289
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, he gives her a glass of water.

1290
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 3: We get an extreme close up of her mouth. Her

1291
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 3: lips are actually she's got lipstick on, so her lips

1292
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 3: are deep red, and she takes a sip of water

1293
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 3: and it just like drools out all over her chin.

1294
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 3: And then she also says that she hears a child

1295
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:03,800
Speaker 3: singing a song in the house. I think that'll connect

1296
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 3: to the song we heard earlier. She says, death, blood.

1297
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 3: We must hide everything, everything in the house back the

1298
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 3: way it was, and then she collapses in fear. Here

1299
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 3: Suddenly we cut away back to the point of viewshot

1300
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 3: of someone unknown, probably the same person who we were

1301
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:24,759
Speaker 3: with when we came into the auditorium. This unknown person

1302
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 3: stands up from one of the rows in the audience,

1303
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 3: and while Helga is having this episode on the stage,

1304
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 3: this unknown person moves down the row and they make

1305
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 3: their way out to the exit. They go to the

1306
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 3: bathroom and then go to the sink. And I really

1307
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 3: loved this bathroom, this squalid, almost science fiction bathroom with

1308
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 3: these gray tiles on every surface. There's something about the

1309
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 3: lack of furniture or fixtures that makes this room very weird.

1310
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 3: And then the mirror is tiny and degraded, so you

1311
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 3: can't see anything in it. So we get a point

1312
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,640
Speaker 3: of shot of this character looking into the mirror, but

1313
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 3: they are just a pale blurb. Basically, the mirror almost

1314
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 3: looks kind of diseased, like the silver ring is eaten away.

1315
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:12,759
Speaker 3: In all these places and great location. Yeah, it feels

1316
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 3: like I said out of THX eleven thirty eight.

1317
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 2: Yea. Now I have a quick question. As I was

1318
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 2: watching the film at this point and we sell the

1319
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,559
Speaker 2: character get up and leave, part of me was tempted

1320
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 2: to do something that, of course the original audience would

1321
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 2: not have been able to do. And that's rewind the

1322
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 2: film and see if I could piece together who in

1323
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 2: the audience had just risen from their seat. I don't

1324
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 2: know if that's actually possible. I haven't. I didn't have

1325
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 2: time to attempt it, but it would make it in

1326
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 2: a way, it would make sense that the film would

1327
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 2: contain that spoiler. But also it might be it might

1328
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:47,759
Speaker 2: not be revealed.

1329
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 3: So I don't know if you can see anything in

1330
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 3: this scene. But there is a scene later the scene

1331
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 3: where where Marcus gets his clue that he will be

1332
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 3: trying to make sense of the rest of the film.

1333
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 3: If you know what to look for in the scene,

1334
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 3: you will absolutely see the killer's identity in that scene.

1335
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 3: But it goes by so fast. If you don't know

1336
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:09,120
Speaker 3: to look out for it, you're not you're probably not

1337
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 3: going to see it.

1338
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 2: Nice well, I like the consistency there.

1339
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So anyway, this point of view character we've been following,

1340
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 3: they seem to be in distress. They're leaning over the sink,

1341
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 3: and a man on the way walking past asks them

1342
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 3: if they need help. But this person never speaks, so

1343
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 3: we get no clues about their identity. And then after

1344
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 3: the man walks away and goes through the door, we

1345
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 3: see suddenly black gloves being pulled on, black gloves with

1346
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 3: gold zippers, and ooh, that'll just you know, if you

1347
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 3: know what Ajallo is, that'll just get you going, like,

1348
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 3: here's what it's about to happen. But it's actually not

1349
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 3: about to happen just yet. It will be a gap

1350
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 3: in time.

1351
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. The character, whoever they may be, is saying, it's

1352
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 2: time to get those gloves out again. I've been keeping

1353
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 2: those gloves for a reason, and now that reason has arrived.

1354
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 2: And this is another scene where there are various other

1355
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 2: clues that can be important later on when you're looking

1356
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 2: back on it. But I'm not going to get into

1357
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 2: everything otherwise, we're just we're trotting out every detail at

1358
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,560
Speaker 2: every scene, but there's some bathroom specific details here that

1359
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 2: could be important later on as well.

1360
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then also there is a little scene after

1361
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 3: this where we're still in the same point of view

1362
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 3: and this person is watching Helga Ulman speak to Professor

1363
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 3: Giordani after the event's over, so they're spying from the wings,

1364
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 3: and I think in the scene Helga is she gives

1365
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 3: away that she has incriminating information about the killer because

1366
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:32,720
Speaker 3: she mine melded with them I don't know if she

1367
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 3: can go to the police and say I psychically read

1368
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 3: someone's mind and I know that they're a murderer now.

1369
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and she suspects they will kill again again.

1370
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 2: She can't see the future, but she can tell this

1371
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 2: person is up for more murders if need to be.

1372
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:49,960
Speaker 2: And you know, it doesn't look good for our psyche

1373
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 2: because again she just she just revealed to the entire audience,

1374
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 2: including the killer, that I know what's up. I know

1375
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 2: who you are.

1376
01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 3: But then from out of this, I think this is

1377
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 3: the moment where or we just blast out of a

1378
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 3: canon into this almost music video style sequence that is awesome.

1379
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a tremendous object fetishization decoupled POV sequence where

1380
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 2: the audience seems to be asked to consider the power

1381
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 2: and symbolism of a number of artifacts, and at the

1382
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:22,600
Speaker 2: same time we seem to be seeing them through the

1383
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:27,040
Speaker 2: presumed killer's eyes, all set to that glorious Goblin theme music.

1384
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 2: You know, we get the idea of this. Okay, here's

1385
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 2: a knife, and this knife is a holy thing, and

1386
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:36,639
Speaker 2: and then there are various other objects that are displayed.

1387
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 2: Each one is presented to us as if like, here's

1388
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,720
Speaker 2: some clues. See if you can make something of this,

1389
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 2: but also like, these are fetishes that the killer is

1390
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:46,679
Speaker 2: fawning over.

1391
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,719
Speaker 3: A lot of the objects are toys. There are dolls,

1392
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 3: there's a toy devil. There are marbles. I think they're

1393
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:55,680
Speaker 3: on feldt It looks like is that right? They look

1394
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 3: like they might be on a pool table or something.

1395
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 3: But yeah, then Gloves and Nie. After this, we're going

1396
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:14,000
Speaker 3: to come back and meet up with Marcus again, or

1397
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:15,640
Speaker 3: if you're watching a different cut of the film, this

1398
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 3: will probably be the first time you meet Marcus where

1399
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:22,600
Speaker 3: he is out on this piazza at night. And this is,

1400
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 3: by the way, we could go ahead and mention what

1401
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:28,719
Speaker 3: this space is, because it's another wonderful location, this big

1402
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:34,480
Speaker 3: empty piazza in the nighttime that is just radiating emptiness

1403
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:38,160
Speaker 3: if emptiness itself is a presence. It's here and it's

1404
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 3: very cool. So I looked up where this is. It's

1405
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 3: called Well, so the movie is supposed to take place

1406
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 3: in Rome, but this is yet another real location in Turin.

1407
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 3: It's called the Piazza CLN in Turin or Terino. So yeah,

1408
01:19:55,240 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 3: big empty space, but it has these twin statue of

1409
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 3: reclining gods. There's a god and a goddess. They're both

1410
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 3: kind of like leaning back, like they're really relaxing. They're

1411
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 3: huge statues up on these stone pedestals with fountains that

1412
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:16,639
Speaker 3: pour water out from under the gods into these pools.

1413
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 3: And then in the not in real life, but in

1414
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,759
Speaker 3: the movie, there is a cross from these statues, actually

1415
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,439
Speaker 3: not across from them, but sort of sideways to them,

1416
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:29,519
Speaker 3: there is a bar called, I think the Blue Bar,

1417
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,800
Speaker 3: and we're gonna learn that this is where Carlo plays

1418
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:33,799
Speaker 3: piano usually.

1419
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly patterned on Edward Hopper's Nighthawks painting. Yes, looks great. Yeah,

1420
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:45,959
Speaker 2: but I get the impression they constructed it or positioned

1421
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 2: it here as part of the production. But also the square.

1422
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:53,480
Speaker 2: This of course brings to mine a particular scene in Suspiria,

1423
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 2: particular sequence in Suspiria that makes use of a great,

1424
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 2: big depopulated e liminal space like this.

1425
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a big empty space in the scene in

1426
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 3: Suspiria where the piano player actually is another piano player character.

1427
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 3: The blind piano player is attacked by like the fluttering witches,

1428
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 3: and then there's a misdirection in that murder scene that

1429
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't want to spoil if you've

1430
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 3: never seen Suspiria, but very cool also with the big

1431
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 3: open empty space and the night sky above. So in

1432
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,160
Speaker 3: this scene we're going to get the first meeting between

1433
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:27,799
Speaker 3: Marcus and Carlo. We've already talked a bit about their friendship.

1434
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 3: Anything else you want to say about it? Here about

1435
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:32,799
Speaker 3: their conversation. Carlo has some philosophical thoughts.

1436
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we discussed this a little bit already about how

1437
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 2: they just have different takes on the profession. You know,

1438
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 2: one is a one is a pianist, the other is

1439
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 2: a piano fighter in a sense. And yeah, it's just

1440
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:49,600
Speaker 2: a It's a great scene, beautifully shot, raw in so

1441
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,640
Speaker 2: many ways, revealing of their characters. I really liked it

1442
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 2: a lot, one of several great scenes between these two.

1443
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 3: But this is building up actually to the iconic first

1444
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:01,800
Speaker 3: murder scene in the movie. I guess the first real

1445
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:06,520
Speaker 3: murder scene where in an apartment overlooking the same piazza.

1446
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 3: So in a window up above in her apartment is Olga,

1447
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 3: the psychic from the demonstration earlier. Oh and I totally

1448
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 3: forgot to mention this, but did you notice the huge

1449
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 3: number of similarities between the psychic demonstration in this movie

1450
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,240
Speaker 3: and the one that would come later in Scanners.

1451
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 2: Oh, I did think about that. Yes, I shall now

1452
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 2: scan everyone in the room. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, nobody's head explodes.

1453
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:34,800
Speaker 2: But but I wonder if there was some inspiration there

1454
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 2: for Kreunenberg.

1455
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:39,720
Speaker 3: But in both there's so much similarity it would be

1456
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:43,679
Speaker 3: hard to imagine there wasn't an inspiration. Like, in both cases,

1457
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 3: the psychic they scan somebody in the audience and then

1458
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,639
Speaker 3: they they pick they like lock in with an audience member,

1459
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 3: but then the audience member like turns it back on

1460
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 3: them and is ultimately going to kill them. You picked

1461
01:22:56,280 --> 01:23:01,599
Speaker 3: the wrong brain, yes, exactly. And so in this case,

1462
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 3: the the psychic Hell guy, she's at her apartment and

1463
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 3: she's just, you know, hanging out and doing some things.

1464
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:09,559
Speaker 3: I don't remember what she's doing here. I think she's

1465
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 3: talking to some people on the phone.

1466
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:14,719
Speaker 2: She's talking talking to somebody in She's speaking in German,

1467
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 2: So she's talking I don't know, her agent or somebody

1468
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:19,400
Speaker 2: family member I don't recall.

1469
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 3: But at the same time, while she's just hanging out

1470
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 3: in her apartment, we see somebody getting ready to go

1471
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,800
Speaker 3: out for the night. But we get like a close

1472
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 3: up of an eyeball and clearly like putting the putting

1473
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:36,160
Speaker 3: the jallo murder gloves on. So something's about to go

1474
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 3: down and someone arrives at the psychic's apartment. The psychic

1475
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,679
Speaker 3: knows before the door even opens that something is wrong,

1476
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 3: like she becomes afraid and tries to block the door,

1477
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,559
Speaker 3: but the person comes in and then murders her. Hits

1478
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 3: her first with a cleaver, but then the death gets

1479
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 3: much more jallo because of the way that it uses

1480
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 3: non traditional movie murder weapons. The movie murder weapon after

1481
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:05,720
Speaker 3: this becomes window. Yeah, so she is shoved into a

1482
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 3: window and the jagged glass on the window that goes

1483
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 3: into her neck and kills her. And then down below

1484
01:24:13,280 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 3: in the piazza, Carlo and Marcus hear the screaming and

1485
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,759
Speaker 3: they're they're like, what's that? And so Marcus is drawn

1486
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 3: to go investigate, and he goes up to the apartment.

1487
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we could scrutinize and say he says, hey,

1488
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:29,519
Speaker 2: there's a murder going on up there. Let me get

1489
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:33,439
Speaker 2: up there and get my fingerprints all over that, because

1490
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 2: that is what he's what he does. But the police

1491
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 2: When the police show up, they're surprisingly cool with this.

1492
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 2: They're like like, hey, you want to what are your

1493
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:42,679
Speaker 2: thoughts on this prime suspect.

1494
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, he's genuinely trying to help.

1495
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:47,840
Speaker 2: But then we learn I don't, at least in my cut,

1496
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 2: I don't think this was firmly established. This is his

1497
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,040
Speaker 2: apartment building, Like, this is a murder in the building,

1498
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 2: is it?

1499
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 3: I actually don't know the answer to that, but I.

1500
01:24:56,360 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 2: Believe I, either wrongfully or correctly watching the film, is that, like,

1501
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 2: this is his building, and therefore it makes a little

1502
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 2: more sense that he's like I think he tells the

1503
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 2: police like, yeah, I didn't really know her, but she's

1504
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 2: a floor below me or something like that.

1505
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, So yeah, he comes

1506
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 3: up into the apartment so now, and on the way in,

1507
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,000
Speaker 3: he's like going through her apartment, which has all these

1508
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 3: like creepy paintings of screaming faces. There's very like Monks

1509
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 3: the Scream, but just a hundred of those versions like.

1510
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:29,640
Speaker 2: Whoever drew the this is the one artist that like

1511
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 2: really gets there.

1512
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And as he's like he's going through the hallway

1513
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 3: and he sees all these weird faces and then as

1514
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 3: he comes to the murder scene like she has is

1515
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 3: either dying or dead there. And then he looks out

1516
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:46,240
Speaker 3: the window and he sees someone leaving the scene on

1517
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 3: the ground down below. Sees them only from behind the

1518
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:52,200
Speaker 3: wearing a raincoat and a hat and gloves, so no

1519
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:56,760
Speaker 3: identifying detail. But so after this we we have an

1520
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,040
Speaker 3: interview with the police. The police are there, they're not.

1521
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 3: They don't seemed to be incredibly useful, but we do

1522
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 3: learn some things that will be important for the rest

1523
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 3: of the film, such as the detail that we talked

1524
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 3: about there. This is in so many Gallo films, the

1525
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 3: detail where if you could just remember it right or

1526
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 3: make sense of it, it would solve the mystery. Here

1527
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,560
Speaker 3: he remembers coming down the hallway and seeing a painting

1528
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:23,679
Speaker 3: that's not there anymore. So the police are there looking

1529
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 3: in the room and they can't find the painting that

1530
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 3: he saw, a painting of a face.

1531
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:31,440
Speaker 2: Which is a nice bit of it's not pure misdirection,

1532
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:33,759
Speaker 2: but it does bring up this one. You start thinking

1533
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:35,960
Speaker 2: about it as the viewer, like, okay, there's some sort

1534
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 2: of a theft of a painting. Okay, that's a whole

1535
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 2: crime staple in and of itself, but I don't have

1536
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 2: much else to go on beyond that. But it seems

1537
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:47,080
Speaker 2: to be important because Marcus is fixating on it, right,

1538
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 2: even though I don't remember, Like I was like, maybe

1539
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 2: I looked up and I missed what he was talking about,

1540
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 2: But no, you didn't miss anything. It is something in

1541
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 2: his mind and it all makes sense later on.

1542
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 3: Also in this scene, we meet Gianna for the first time,

1543
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,960
Speaker 3: played by Daria Nickelode. She arrives to to you know,

1544
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 3: to write a story on what's going on here. I

1545
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 3: guess she's a crime reporter. She is bold, assertive, flippant, difficult,

1546
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:17,879
Speaker 3: and funny, and she's like making fun of the police

1547
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 3: who are trying to stop her from coming and looking in.

1548
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:24,600
Speaker 3: She clearly is she has encountered, you know, their resistance

1549
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:27,680
Speaker 3: to her investigations before, and is inclined to just kind

1550
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 3: of blow through them.

1551
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, just storms right in and starts taking photos.

1552
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. But actually there will over time develop a relationship

1553
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:40,880
Speaker 3: between Gianna and Marcus for one reason, because she takes

1554
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 3: his picture and then advertises in the newspaper that he

1555
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 3: is a witness to the murder, and that puts him

1556
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:51,479
Speaker 3: in the crosshairs because after this there's a scene where

1557
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 3: he is home alone and somebody appears to be like

1558
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:57,880
Speaker 3: stalking him in his apartment. He manages to slam the

1559
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 3: door to keep the person away from him, but he

1560
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 3: hears a whispered voice on the other side of the

1561
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:05,559
Speaker 3: door saying, I think I will kill you soon.

1562
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:09,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the mysterious murder is onto him as well,

1563
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 2: because whoever committed this crime in the past, this Christmas homicide,

1564
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 2: they don't want anybody to do unearth the secret, the

1565
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 2: dark secrets of this crime.

1566
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 3: Also, she's she's just really into him, not the killer,

1567
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:27,519
Speaker 3: but Gianna. So she's she's not just helping because she

1568
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:31,080
Speaker 3: feels bad for putting him in the crosshairs. Also, she's like, hey,

1569
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 3: you know you're attractive. I'm saying we let's hook up.

1570
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 3: I don't know how much of that was in your version,

1571
01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 3: because I know those are a lot of the scenes

1572
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:41,240
Speaker 3: that got cut out, but clearly like, yeah, she's looking,

1573
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 3: she's looking for love.

1574
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:45,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. I felt like the actors had great chemistry and

1575
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 2: they had some just nice playful back and forth here.

1576
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 2: Sometimes in these these scenes that are played a little

1577
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:52,680
Speaker 2: bit more for comedy, but again not in the way

1578
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 2: that feels out of balance. Particularly there's this scene where

1579
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 2: she gives him a ride in her car and there's

1580
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:01,720
Speaker 2: all this like you can't get in on that door

1581
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:03,720
Speaker 2: through that door because that door doesn't work, and then

1582
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 2: like his seat doesn't work either, and he's like hunched

1583
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:09,879
Speaker 2: over and you know, too far down, and.

1584
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:12,720
Speaker 3: He locks his door, which means they can't get out of.

1585
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 2: The Yeah, it's like that door can never be up.

1586
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:16,439
Speaker 2: We have to get a mechanic to open that door.

1587
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 3: Now, well, they from then on they get in and

1588
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 3: out of the car through the sun roof.

1589
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. So yeah, it's it's fun and

1590
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:26,479
Speaker 2: it helps establish like, yeah, these two are having fun

1591
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:28,600
Speaker 2: together despite all the dark things going on in the

1592
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:31,160
Speaker 2: world around them, Like they have a they have a spark,

1593
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 2: even if they're kind of fighting at times about and

1594
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:38,519
Speaker 2: when he's you know, his sexist side comes out and

1595
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 2: he's talking about, you know, scoffing at women's rights and all,

1596
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 2: and then she has to beat him at arm wrestling.

1597
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 2: It's nicely played out.

1598
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 3: That scene starts with him being like, oh, don't start

1599
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 3: telling me about women's equality, you know, and then it

1600
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 3: just ends with him complaining because she keeps beating him

1601
01:29:56,160 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 3: at arm wrestling. Yeah, he's like, you're doing we need

1602
01:29:58,400 --> 01:29:59,800
Speaker 3: to do it different this next time.

1603
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1604
01:30:03,400 --> 01:30:05,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So so there's that. There are also some more

1605
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:08,880
Speaker 3: scenes of the friendship between Marcus and Carlo, so you

1606
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:13,000
Speaker 3: get the sequence where you know, Marcus goes to check

1607
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:15,400
Speaker 3: on Carlo, meets his mom, she talks about how she

1608
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 3: used to be an actress. Then he goes to find

1609
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:21,559
Speaker 3: Carlo at the apartment of his lover Massimo, and they

1610
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,639
Speaker 3: leave together, and then they talk about the case, about

1611
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 3: like whether Carlo also saw somebody leaving the apartment that

1612
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 3: night in a raincoat. Carlo thinks maybe he did, but

1613
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:34,000
Speaker 3: he doesn't have any information. But then Carlo is really

1614
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:37,320
Speaker 3: concerned for Marcus because he's like, he's afraid that if

1615
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:39,600
Speaker 3: his friend keeps looking into this, it will lead to

1616
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:41,599
Speaker 3: more trouble and he's going to end up dead. Two.

1617
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, So at this point we've pretty much established like

1618
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 2: the mission for all the characters here. You know, Marcus

1619
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:50,720
Speaker 2: is gonna Marcus and UH and Jenna are going to

1620
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 2: continue to investigate. They're going to get various leads, they're

1621
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 2: going to follow those leads, and meanwhile, the mysterious killer

1622
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,600
Speaker 2: is going to keep offing people that are key to

1623
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:02,920
Speaker 2: the invent investigation, and these are going to be your

1624
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 2: stylish Jallo murders we already mentioned, like the one that

1625
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 2: takes place in a mirror walled bathroom. Yeah crazy, Yeah,

1626
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 2: death by drowning in a tub of hot water, scholar,

1627
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 2: which is grotesque, but also like physically the flesh aspect

1628
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 2: of it is grotesque, but the steamed up mirrors makes

1629
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:30,639
Speaker 2: for it's just wonderful. It's wonderfully composed scene and then

1630
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:34,280
Speaker 2: makes great use of like the the victim writing something

1631
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 2: out on the mirror before they die, and then our

1632
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:39,600
Speaker 2: investigator having to make sense of that and try and

1633
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:42,800
Speaker 2: figure out, oh, they actually wrote the killer is or

1634
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:44,280
Speaker 2: the killer was such and such.

1635
01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:48,479
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the victim there is the author of a

1636
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:53,439
Speaker 3: book about a local legend about a haunted house where

1637
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 3: the song that Marcus heard associated with the killer was

1638
01:31:58,040 --> 01:32:01,439
Speaker 3: also heard playing. Yes, implicated, that's how he gets He's

1639
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 3: like trying to find out more, and then she gets killed.

1640
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 3: Somebody gets to her before he can.

1641
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:08,719
Speaker 2: It's a little convoluted to the point. You wonder if

1642
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 2: the point it might be that he has completely gone

1643
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 2: off the rails and it's like fallowed some sort of

1644
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 2: nonsensical clue that's leading him in the wrong direction. But

1645
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:21,720
Speaker 2: who's following him in the wrong direction, the killer. It

1646
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 2: turns out it's the right direction.

1647
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:26,719
Speaker 3: Yes, So he eventually hunts hunts down this local haunted

1648
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 3: house by way of identifying some unusual plants in a

1649
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:34,799
Speaker 3: book photo of the house. So now he's getting somewhere.

1650
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,000
Speaker 3: I think they call it the House of the Screaming Child.

1651
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it surprisingly has not sold. It's still on

1652
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:44,519
Speaker 2: the market. Nobody wants to live in the House of

1653
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:48,720
Speaker 2: the Screaming Child. It's like when Marge becomes a real

1654
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:53,080
Speaker 2: estate agent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it will we

1655
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:55,400
Speaker 2: will learn it is a murder house and it is

1656
01:32:55,479 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 2: an historic villa in Toronto, so it's I was looking

1657
01:32:59,400 --> 01:33:00,799
Speaker 2: it up. It's still out there.

1658
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:04,880
Speaker 3: So Marcus goes to investigate. There is some great music,

1659
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:08,120
Speaker 3: just you know, goblin jazz playing while he walks around

1660
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 3: the house. He meets the caretaker of the house and

1661
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 3: the caretaker's daughter who The daughter is played by the

1662
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 3: creepy redheaded child from Footprints on the Moon.

1663
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:19,679
Speaker 2: She's creepy here because she might be murdering lizards.

1664
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:22,720
Speaker 3: Maybe stabbing needles through lizards for witchcraft.

1665
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, drawing all sorts of horrendous childhood artwork of murder,

1666
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:29,520
Speaker 2: you know, and that's her specialty.

1667
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 3: Well, but we don't know who drew this. But he

1668
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:34,280
Speaker 3: goes into the house and he finds a place where

1669
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 3: like he peels the plaster away from the wall with

1670
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:38,040
Speaker 3: his fingernails.

1671
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:39,880
Speaker 2: Oh god, that was giving me the all over those like,

1672
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 2: come on, Marcus, find it something. There's got to be

1673
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 2: a shovel or a well. He does eventually, eventually, but

1674
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:48,479
Speaker 2: it's like several minutes of nails scrape thing before he does.

1675
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:51,880
Speaker 3: He goes into a flooded basements. This gets I don't know,

1676
01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:55,920
Speaker 3: a scraper of some kind, and it reveals a child,

1677
01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:59,439
Speaker 3: a child's drawing on the wall of a murder taking place.

1678
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:04,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, very interesting looking a bit of art. And then

1679
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:07,640
Speaker 2: as he leaves it, another little piece chips away and

1680
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:10,759
Speaker 2: it reveals there's more to that painting. Yeah, he doesn't

1681
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 2: know about it, but we the viewer have privileged information

1682
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:18,680
Speaker 2: that our protagonist is working on an incomplete understanding of

1683
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 2: the situation. So I rather liked that.

1684
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:32,360
Speaker 3: Now we already mentioned earlier that while this is going on,

1685
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 3: there's been a parallel investigation with Professor Jordani. He went

1686
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:38,920
Speaker 3: to the other murder victim's house, the one who died

1687
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:42,519
Speaker 3: in the bathtub, and saw the message written on the wall.

1688
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:45,360
Speaker 3: Was able to like figure out what that was by

1689
01:34:45,400 --> 01:34:49,400
Speaker 3: refogging up the bathroom after it had disappeared. But then

1690
01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:52,559
Speaker 3: Jordani is now not long for this world. He knows

1691
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:54,680
Speaker 3: too much. Somebody's got to do something about that.

1692
01:34:55,080 --> 01:34:58,800
Speaker 2: Oh and his murder scene is bonkers, so it mirrors.

1693
01:34:58,400 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 3: A lot of people think this is a highlight of

1694
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:00,479
Speaker 3: the film.

1695
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:03,639
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, I loved it, but it's bonkers. It's

1696
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:06,920
Speaker 2: so set up more or less like Marcus is almost

1697
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:10,400
Speaker 2: murder from earlier where Marcus is like in his study

1698
01:35:10,479 --> 01:35:12,559
Speaker 2: doing work, and then he hears something weird and he

1699
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:16,080
Speaker 2: picks up something to protect himself from his table. Well,

1700
01:35:16,200 --> 01:35:21,120
Speaker 2: same thing here with our parapsychologist, except he doesn't get

1701
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:23,200
Speaker 2: to shut the door on it. He sees something and

1702
01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:29,800
Speaker 2: then is seemingly attacked by a hideous ventrilocus dummy or

1703
01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:32,719
Speaker 2: automaton wind up vampire doll.

1704
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:35,120
Speaker 3: He is, Yeah, he's in his study and he hears

1705
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:39,439
Speaker 3: somebody whisper his name. Yeah, the whispered voice is very creepy.

1706
01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:42,120
Speaker 3: He arms himself with a knife, then he kind of

1707
01:35:42,120 --> 01:35:44,040
Speaker 3: feels silly, I think it, puts the knife down, and

1708
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:48,719
Speaker 3: then bursting out of the closet is a clockwork doll

1709
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 3: that's like wheeling toward him on some kind of contraption,

1710
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:57,280
Speaker 3: just like rushing toward the camera, making crazy noises, and

1711
01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 3: it's like ah, and he attacks the doll and breaks

1712
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:03,640
Speaker 3: its head open, revealing that it is a machine of

1713
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:07,559
Speaker 3: some kind of like a giant wind up ventriloquist stummy

1714
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:10,400
Speaker 3: is what it looks like. Yeah, so I incredibly unsettling.

1715
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:13,880
Speaker 2: I guess the main takeaway is it's a toy doll,

1716
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:16,559
Speaker 2: which is one of the things that the killer is into.

1717
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:18,800
Speaker 2: But at the time as this was happening, I was like,

1718
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 2: is this is this a machine? Like is this a robot?

1719
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:24,679
Speaker 2: Is this a psychic? Attack? Is our you know, we've

1720
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 2: already had one psychic in the film, and maybe this

1721
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 2: is our villain? Is our actual killer is a psychic

1722
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:34,040
Speaker 2: And they're like, you know, telekinetically throwing puppets at them.

1723
01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:39,400
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure, but no, not necessarily, and we don't

1724
01:36:39,479 --> 01:36:42,080
Speaker 3: know why the puppet was used. But it's creepy, and

1725
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:44,680
Speaker 3: then the attack comes from behind. That was a distraction.

1726
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,720
Speaker 3: The attack comes from behind and he gets like his

1727
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:52,280
Speaker 3: mouth bashed on all the corners of the furniture. Do

1728
01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:53,920
Speaker 3: you notice how I feel like a lot of the

1729
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:58,599
Speaker 3: murders in this movie are they're not. They're like things

1730
01:36:58,960 --> 01:37:04,320
Speaker 3: injuries that people might dream up accidentally having on their own,

1731
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

1732
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a stark contrast with some of the violence,

1733
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 2: like some of the zombie violence that we discussed, say

1734
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:16,160
Speaker 2: in in our recent look at Folci's What City of

1735
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:20,519
Speaker 2: the Living Dead, where in that it's like zombie barfing

1736
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 2: up their entire intestine something like that. So it's certainly grotesque,

1737
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:28,000
Speaker 2: but it's so grotesque that it's outside of our normal

1738
01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:33,880
Speaker 2: anxieties and experiences, whereas like ental trauma, that's like that's

1739
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:36,479
Speaker 2: too real. That's just in factor, you know, because we

1740
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:39,960
Speaker 2: can all we have all had thoughts about that or

1741
01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:43,400
Speaker 2: experiences along those lines, So that's that's more real to us.

1742
01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 2: It's a common observation in horror, and certainly in horror

1743
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:49,639
Speaker 2: cinema that it's like someone's arm can get cut off

1744
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:52,080
Speaker 2: and it will mean nothing to you. But if someone

1745
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:55,880
Speaker 2: gets like their palm sliced or something to that effect,

1746
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:59,280
Speaker 2: a more minor injury. We'll connect with it viscerally because

1747
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:02,439
Speaker 2: it's just more real. It's something that we can compare

1748
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:03,519
Speaker 2: our own experiences to.

1749
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:07,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, so many of the kills in this movie are

1750
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:13,599
Speaker 3: things that you could imagine happening to yourself by accident somehow. Yeah.

1751
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, less decapitation and more more dental trauma.

1752
01:38:17,400 --> 01:38:20,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. So anyway, it's curtains for Jordanni, no more Jordanni

1753
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:23,320
Speaker 3: to help. So we got I guess we've got a

1754
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 3: race toward the conclusion here. The way we get there

1755
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:29,400
Speaker 3: is that Marcus realizes he has missed a clue. He's

1756
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 3: like looking at the picture of the villa from the

1757
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:35,519
Speaker 3: book and he realizes there used to be a window

1758
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:38,760
Speaker 3: on the house that's not there anymore. It's now just

1759
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:41,800
Speaker 3: walled up. So he goes back to the house. He's

1760
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 3: like got to bash through this wall and find out

1761
01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 3: what was behind where this window used to be. And

1762
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:49,040
Speaker 3: this is like a whole action sequence.

1763
01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:51,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like he goes up, you know, goes up

1764
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:53,720
Speaker 2: to the top floor, climbs out onto the outside of

1765
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:57,160
Speaker 2: the house, bashes through what used to be a window,

1766
01:38:57,160 --> 01:38:59,240
Speaker 2: but is now a wall with a hammer and then

1767
01:38:59,280 --> 01:39:01,439
Speaker 2: begins to fall all off the house and has to

1768
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 2: steadily climb down the outside of the house in a

1769
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 2: really drawn out action sequence set to some really wonky jazz.

1770
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I loved it, but this jazz is wonky.

1771
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:19,120
Speaker 2: This is thick, it's aggressive, and it does kind of

1772
01:39:19,120 --> 01:39:22,800
Speaker 2: feel like the stuntman or whoever did the stunt, was like, hey,

1773
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:25,959
Speaker 2: I climbed down the entire outside of that villa for you.

1774
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:29,040
Speaker 2: You better not cut it, our gento. I nearly died

1775
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 2: for that, And so he didn't and cut it includes

1776
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:35,599
Speaker 2: what seemingly the whole thing, but he successfully bashes through.

1777
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:38,760
Speaker 2: We get in there, and what's inside the Christmas room

1778
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:40,280
Speaker 2: the Christmas house side room.

1779
01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:42,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, complete with the desiccated corpse.

1780
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:46,479
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, what is I read is a male corpse,

1781
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:50,559
Speaker 2: so like dad corpse in a rocking chair. Perhaps I'm

1782
01:39:50,560 --> 01:39:52,120
Speaker 2: not sure it was a rocking chair. Then maybe that's

1783
01:39:52,200 --> 01:39:56,400
Speaker 2: old too much, just like a chair interpretation. But yeah,

1784
01:39:56,920 --> 01:39:59,960
Speaker 2: ancient remains of a dead body does not come alive,

1785
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:01,599
Speaker 2: but much is revealed here.

1786
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:05,519
Speaker 3: So Marcus gets knocked unconscious by someone unseen, The house

1787
01:40:05,560 --> 01:40:08,160
Speaker 3: catches on fire and then he awakes outside the house

1788
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:12,280
Speaker 3: with Gianna standing over him. She she apparently found the

1789
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:14,479
Speaker 3: note that he left for her, and then she followed

1790
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,240
Speaker 3: him here and dragged him out of the house before

1791
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:20,799
Speaker 3: he was quote a roast duck baby.

1792
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:25,120
Speaker 2: Oh, and this is where he's like, Oh, that creepy

1793
01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:28,240
Speaker 2: redheaded kid. He notices in her room, what is she

1794
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:31,639
Speaker 2: decorated her walls with. She's decorated her walls with drawings.

1795
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 2: It looked just like the one that he uncovered in

1796
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:34,479
Speaker 2: the villa.

1797
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:36,839
Speaker 3: I thought this was going to mean she was psychic

1798
01:40:37,080 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 3: and had psychically seen the image, but no, it's actually

1799
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:45,599
Speaker 3: I think kind of a dumber and more convoluted twist

1800
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:45,920
Speaker 3: than that.

1801
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:50,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, that she what solid on? She read she saw

1802
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:53,040
Speaker 2: it in the archives at a school. At her middle school.

1803
01:40:53,320 --> 01:40:56,480
Speaker 3: She's like, I was being forced to clean the archives

1804
01:40:56,520 --> 01:40:59,080
Speaker 3: at this middle local middle school. They say the name

1805
01:40:59,120 --> 01:41:02,080
Speaker 3: a lot of times, Leonardo da Vinci Middle School. I

1806
01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:04,960
Speaker 3: was at Leonardo da Vinci Middle School cleaning the archives

1807
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:06,800
Speaker 3: and I saw this drawing and then I made a

1808
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:10,440
Speaker 3: copy of it at my house. And they're like, oh,

1809
01:41:10,520 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 3: so if we just go to the school and find

1810
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:14,720
Speaker 3: this drawing, it will tell us who the killer is yes.

1811
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:17,240
Speaker 2: So now we have our late movie research mode. We

1812
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:23,320
Speaker 2: have our mission for our protagonist and our punchy reporter.

1813
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:26,320
Speaker 2: Here we know that at some point in the past

1814
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 2: a child has drawn creepy drawings of murder. They went

1815
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:33,360
Speaker 2: to this middle school. This middle school has never thrown

1816
01:41:33,439 --> 01:41:37,200
Speaker 2: a single thing away. All the children's drawings are archived.

1817
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:40,679
Speaker 2: They just need to, I guess, break into the school

1818
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:44,639
Speaker 2: and go through all of these drawings, find the one

1819
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:46,880
Speaker 2: they're looking for, and figure out who did it, and

1820
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:49,599
Speaker 2: then they'll know the identity of the killer.

1821
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:53,640
Speaker 3: Perfect, perfect plan, and that's what they do. They go

1822
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:56,920
Speaker 3: there and they start going through the archives. They're being stalked,

1823
01:41:56,960 --> 01:41:59,400
Speaker 3: of course by the killer who's watching them from there.

1824
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:01,800
Speaker 2: At one point she's like, should we call We should

1825
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,120
Speaker 2: call the police and let them know we're here, which

1826
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:06,760
Speaker 2: made me ask like, didn't you guys just like break in?

1827
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:08,479
Speaker 2: Like I didn't think much about it when they did it,

1828
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:11,040
Speaker 2: because you just do these things in movies like this.

1829
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:14,960
Speaker 3: But guess, my guess is that the script didn't have

1830
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:17,720
Speaker 3: that in it. And then they realized while they were

1831
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:20,479
Speaker 3: shooting these scenes, they're like, wait, the police are showing up,

1832
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:23,200
Speaker 3: but how would the police know, and they're like, oh no,

1833
01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:25,800
Speaker 3: we need to have Darius say we should call the

1834
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:30,679
Speaker 3: police so that you know. So there's a reason. So anyway,

1835
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:34,759
Speaker 3: they're there, and while they are there, they indeed discover

1836
01:42:35,160 --> 01:42:38,280
Speaker 3: the drawing, and on the drawing, I guess there's a name.

1837
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 3: And this lets Marcus put it all together. He starts

1838
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:44,640
Speaker 3: calling out in the dark because he hears someone is

1839
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:47,679
Speaker 3: there with him. He starts calling out, I know who

1840
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:50,360
Speaker 3: the killer is. I know it's you. I found your drawing.

1841
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,519
Speaker 3: Now now it all makes sense, and we get a

1842
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:57,120
Speaker 3: big reveal. We also get the the idea that somebody

1843
01:42:57,240 --> 01:43:00,639
Speaker 3: has attacked Jianna, though we don't see exactly what's happened

1844
01:43:00,680 --> 01:43:01,200
Speaker 3: to her yet.

1845
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:04,639
Speaker 2: Right right, But yeah, there's what seems like there's there's

1846
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:09,000
Speaker 2: a death sequence, like she's stabbed or something kind of like.

1847
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:10,840
Speaker 2: This is where we get a little bit of that

1848
01:43:11,439 --> 01:43:14,400
Speaker 2: eroticism of death here, the kind of like face she

1849
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:17,439
Speaker 2: makes when she's being stabbed. But then the big reveal.

1850
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:20,600
Speaker 2: It's Carlo. He pulls a gun on Marcus and he

1851
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:22,880
Speaker 2: tells him that, hey, I wish you'd stay out of it.

1852
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:24,600
Speaker 2: I stayed out of this. I tried to warn you

1853
01:43:24,640 --> 01:43:28,760
Speaker 2: away and you know, he's frazzled and Marcus is trying

1854
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:32,040
Speaker 2: to reason with him. Then the cops show up, as

1855
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:37,799
Speaker 2: we mentioned that they would, and Carlo is is he spooked.

1856
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:41,120
Speaker 2: He runs off, and we get this long, drawn out

1857
01:43:41,200 --> 01:43:45,479
Speaker 2: and really disturbing sequence where Marcus runs into traffic and

1858
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to go through all the details, but

1859
01:43:47,160 --> 01:43:49,600
Speaker 2: is essentially torn apart by the traffic.

1860
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:53,200
Speaker 3: Yet again, like a horrible death sequence that you could

1861
01:43:53,200 --> 01:43:56,520
Speaker 3: imagine just being like a series of tragic accidents.

1862
01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. In my response at this point, again this was

1863
01:43:59,120 --> 01:44:01,559
Speaker 2: my first time seeing the film, I was like, well,

1864
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 2: the movie was great up until this point, but now

1865
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:09,360
Speaker 2: it kind of sucks because, yeah, the movie ends with

1866
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:15,040
Speaker 2: our our main non hetero character is the killer and

1867
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:17,880
Speaker 2: ends up dying by being dragged behind a truck. You know,

1868
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 2: like that's that's gross. But there's more to go.

1869
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:25,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't make sense in multiple levels.

1870
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:29,400
Speaker 3: It is. It is an unsatisfying conclusion, but there is

1871
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:30,519
Speaker 3: another development coming.

1872
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think one of the things about it is

1873
01:44:32,479 --> 01:44:35,479
Speaker 2: that like it makes emotional sense at the time, and

1874
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:38,840
Speaker 2: it seems like the movie's wrapping up so and you

1875
01:44:38,840 --> 01:44:40,840
Speaker 2: don't really have time to think about like all the

1876
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 2: ways this doesn't work yet, because you're being beat over

1877
01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:46,800
Speaker 2: the head with a long drawn out death sequence for

1878
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:51,960
Speaker 2: the character here. It's only afterwards that we the viewer

1879
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:54,599
Speaker 2: can begin to piece things together, and that Marcus can

1880
01:44:54,640 --> 01:44:55,759
Speaker 2: begin to piece things together.

1881
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:58,160
Speaker 3: Right, So Marcus does what does he do here?

1882
01:44:58,479 --> 01:45:00,639
Speaker 2: Well? First, first of all, first.

1883
01:45:00,640 --> 01:45:02,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, we find out that Gianna, she's not dead.

1884
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:05,639
Speaker 2: She's going to be okay, just a fleshmom, she's pulling

1885
01:45:05,680 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 2: through it. But then he goes back to the square

1886
01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:11,720
Speaker 2: from before. The cafe is closed, which I thought was

1887
01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:13,519
Speaker 2: a nice that the bar there is closed. I thought

1888
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:16,600
Speaker 2: it was a nice touch. Everything's dark and empty. It

1889
01:45:16,600 --> 01:45:18,479
Speaker 2: was dark and empty before, but now even more so.

1890
01:45:19,120 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 2: And Carlo is not there. Of course Carlo is dead.

1891
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:24,519
Speaker 2: And then he realizes what couldn't have been Carlo. Carlo

1892
01:45:24,680 --> 01:45:27,560
Speaker 2: was out here in the square with me when Helga

1893
01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:30,960
Speaker 2: was being murdered up there. So he goes back to

1894
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:33,280
Speaker 2: the crime scene, helps himself in, you know, tears the

1895
01:45:33,320 --> 01:45:37,719
Speaker 2: type of side, and he starts looking around. He starts

1896
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:40,960
Speaker 2: thinking about that missing painting, where's that missing painting? And

1897
01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:44,679
Speaker 2: then he finds it. He realizes there wasn't a missing painting.

1898
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:47,200
Speaker 2: What I was looking at is still here. It's not

1899
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 2: a painting, it's a mirror, and the mirror was reflecting

1900
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:55,800
Speaker 2: somebody standing just out of sight that was hiding from him,

1901
01:45:56,120 --> 01:45:59,040
Speaker 2: but the individuals being still, and he thought that they

1902
01:45:59,240 --> 01:46:00,639
Speaker 2: that it was a painting of a person.

1903
01:46:01,400 --> 01:46:03,920
Speaker 3: Really good twist, by the way. I mean that one

1904
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:05,960
Speaker 3: the first time I saw that. That worked so well

1905
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:08,280
Speaker 3: for me, the painting to mirror reverse.

1906
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:10,840
Speaker 2: Same here. Yeah. I'd see plenty of films where the

1907
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:15,479
Speaker 2: big revelation is feels completely telegraphed and you're like, come on,

1908
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:17,640
Speaker 2: go ahead and say it. You figured it out, We

1909
01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:20,640
Speaker 2: figured it out ten minutes ago, But not here. Just

1910
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:24,120
Speaker 2: excellent bait and switch. The true killer is revealed because

1911
01:46:24,120 --> 01:46:26,679
Speaker 2: of course the killer shows up to kill Marcus now

1912
01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:28,400
Speaker 2: and it's Carlo's mom.

1913
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:32,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, so when Carlo earlier pulled the gun, it's

1914
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:35,639
Speaker 3: not that he was the killer, it's that he knew

1915
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:39,439
Speaker 3: it was his mom and that Marcus was about to

1916
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:42,800
Speaker 3: was about to turn her in, and he was trying

1917
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:43,759
Speaker 3: to protect his mom.

1918
01:46:44,280 --> 01:46:48,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we get the full Christmas murder reveal where

1919
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:52,400
Speaker 2: we find out that what happened was that Carlo's father

1920
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:56,880
Speaker 2: wanted to send Carlo's mother back to the hospital. I believe.

1921
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:00,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're saying that, the doctors, I mean, it suggested

1922
01:47:01,040 --> 01:47:04,640
Speaker 3: that she had previously been been hospitalized, maybe for like

1923
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:09,040
Speaker 3: a mental condition, and that she you know, they were

1924
01:47:09,080 --> 01:47:11,439
Speaker 3: asking her to go back again. The doctors were saying

1925
01:47:11,479 --> 01:47:15,480
Speaker 3: that she would benefit from going back again. But she's refusing.

1926
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:19,439
Speaker 3: She says no, and he's trying to convince her. He's saying, look,

1927
01:47:19,479 --> 01:47:22,120
Speaker 3: it'll be good for you, and she's saying no. And

1928
01:47:22,160 --> 01:47:25,000
Speaker 3: then she pulls a knife out of a drawer and

1929
01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:25,920
Speaker 3: she kills him.

1930
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:29,160
Speaker 2: Right, so now we know what happened. Like, she's the killer,

1931
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:31,439
Speaker 2: She's the one that was in the audience, she's the

1932
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:35,080
Speaker 2: one that's been going around. And she even completely exonerates

1933
01:47:35,080 --> 01:47:38,760
Speaker 2: Carlo and says Carlo was never the killer. And she

1934
01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:41,519
Speaker 2: goes to kill Marcus. There's a fight, and then the

1935
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:43,960
Speaker 2: way things finally go down is we get this death

1936
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:51,720
Speaker 2: by elevator necklace situation. Decapitation via necklace via elevator and

1937
01:47:51,720 --> 01:47:52,440
Speaker 2: it gets.

1938
01:47:52,160 --> 01:47:54,920
Speaker 3: Caught in the elevator as it's descending and then pulls

1939
01:47:55,040 --> 01:47:55,960
Speaker 3: tight against her neck.

1940
01:47:56,080 --> 01:48:00,839
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, really really grim. A lot of blood is produced,

1941
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:04,000
Speaker 2: deep red blood, and we end with Marcus or my

1942
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:07,240
Speaker 2: cut of the film ended with Marcus staring down and

1943
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:11,840
Speaker 2: seeing his own reflection in that pool of blood. And

1944
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:13,920
Speaker 2: then we close and we at least I got the

1945
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:17,160
Speaker 2: text on the screen. You have been watching Deep Red? Yeah?

1946
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:17,680
Speaker 1: You?

1947
01:48:17,800 --> 01:48:19,160
Speaker 3: In case you forgot yeah.

1948
01:48:19,080 --> 01:48:20,639
Speaker 2: Or I guess if you walked in late. I mean,

1949
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:22,679
Speaker 2: that's the thing we have to think about movie theaters.

1950
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:26,400
Speaker 2: People may have come in late or snuck into the

1951
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:28,639
Speaker 2: theater and didn't know what they were watching. So now

1952
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:31,559
Speaker 2: you know you have been watching Deep Red. I would just.

1953
01:48:31,479 --> 01:48:34,400
Speaker 3: Say that that twist the first time I saw it

1954
01:48:34,479 --> 01:48:37,240
Speaker 3: really got me, like I did not see it coming

1955
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:39,800
Speaker 3: and it was effective.

1956
01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:42,800
Speaker 2: So if I'm understanding everything correctly. Then trying to piece

1957
01:48:42,840 --> 01:48:47,040
Speaker 2: everything together again, Carlo is a hard drinking pianist, barely

1958
01:48:47,040 --> 01:48:51,400
Speaker 2: holding it all together. His mother attends a parapsychology conference. Helga,

1959
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:56,439
Speaker 2: the psychic detects her past crimes and then makes the

1960
01:48:56,479 --> 01:48:58,880
Speaker 2: move to kill her. Does and then the rest of

1961
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 2: the murders are her cover bring up her crimes. Carlo

1962
01:49:02,160 --> 01:49:05,600
Speaker 2: then tries to protect her when Marcus is investigating.

1963
01:49:06,680 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 3: I guess we never find out how early he knew

1964
01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:13,320
Speaker 3: about what was going on unclear there. Yeah, but at

1965
01:49:13,400 --> 01:49:16,120
Speaker 3: least by the end of the investigation, he intervenes and

1966
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:19,320
Speaker 3: points a gun at at Marcus to stop him from

1967
01:49:19,400 --> 01:49:20,080
Speaker 3: getting his mother.

1968
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now I still don't know entirely what to make

1969
01:49:23,160 --> 01:49:26,920
Speaker 2: of the baby dolls. Oh yeah, the creepy automaton, some

1970
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:29,200
Speaker 2: of the other fetish items. Why she had to play

1971
01:49:29,240 --> 01:49:31,679
Speaker 2: the song each time? Was she playing the song because

1972
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:34,240
Speaker 2: the song played during the Christmas murder?

1973
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:38,400
Speaker 3: Maybe she was like wanting to revisit the murder in

1974
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:38,960
Speaker 3: some way.

1975
01:49:39,360 --> 01:49:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, But as far as unanswered questions goes, those are

1976
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:44,840
Speaker 2: fine ones to have. It's like, all the actual logistics

1977
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:47,960
Speaker 2: are there on the screen. And yeah, I think the

1978
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:51,360
Speaker 2: film handles its bait and switch twist rather nicely, because

1979
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:54,320
Speaker 2: you know, early on we established that Carlo as an outsider,

1980
01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:57,360
Speaker 2: someone living on the edge of society, and especially given

1981
01:49:57,360 --> 01:50:01,440
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies, established his sexual preferences in a lifestyle

1982
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:05,120
Speaker 2: seemingly within the context of the film as a red

1983
01:50:05,160 --> 01:50:08,519
Speaker 2: flag so that the moviegoer might then suspect him. This

1984
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:11,679
Speaker 2: is a common trope, certainly in films of that time,

1985
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:16,120
Speaker 2: and and you know, for decades to come. Though in

1986
01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 2: the process they actually take a fair amount of time

1987
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:24,240
Speaker 2: to establish this relationship with Massimo. Is something genuine and

1988
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:29,479
Speaker 2: comforting that you know that you know, could go one

1989
01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:31,439
Speaker 2: or two ways, Like there's so much misdirection you could

1990
01:50:31,479 --> 01:50:33,640
Speaker 2: easily think, well, maybe that's misdirection trying to make me

1991
01:50:33,680 --> 01:50:36,519
Speaker 2: think that Carlo isn't the killer. But anyway, when it

1992
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:39,439
Speaker 2: seems that Carlo is the revealed killer, we get this again,

1993
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:44,599
Speaker 2: brutal and violent downfall, and then we feel I think

1994
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:46,880
Speaker 2: the movie goer is made to feel all the worse

1995
01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:48,840
Speaker 2: when they realize, oh, well, he never was the killer.

1996
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:52,960
Speaker 2: So the film seems to exploit seventy genre film expectations

1997
01:50:53,000 --> 01:50:56,000
Speaker 2: of a character like Carlo, and then in subverting it,

1998
01:50:56,320 --> 01:50:59,760
Speaker 2: you know, for plot's sake and for shock's sake, does

1999
01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:02,160
Speaker 2: seem to relish and making the film go or analyze

2000
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:06,360
Speaker 2: their own prejudices and stereotypes real life and or cinematic.

2001
01:51:06,479 --> 01:51:08,880
Speaker 2: So you know, you might say it holds a mirror

2002
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:09,639
Speaker 2: up to the viewer.

2003
01:51:10,240 --> 01:51:13,559
Speaker 3: Oh very nice, the mirror. Yeah yeah, yeah. I don't

2004
01:51:13,640 --> 01:51:17,400
Speaker 3: honestly know how intentional all of that is in terms

2005
01:51:17,439 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 3: of that kind of reversal of prejudices or expectations about

2006
01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:26,760
Speaker 3: a character, but possibly. Yeah, anyway, I mean I get

2007
01:51:26,840 --> 01:51:28,760
Speaker 3: like lot in.

2008
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:31,960
Speaker 2: Order, only progressive in that it and so that it

2009
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,840
Speaker 2: can further the bait and switch. I don't know, but

2010
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:37,360
Speaker 2: I mean I'll take it. I'll take it where I

2011
01:51:37,400 --> 01:51:37,840
Speaker 2: can get it.

2012
01:51:38,160 --> 01:51:40,360
Speaker 3: I guess. Yeah, I can't quite tell if it is

2013
01:51:40,400 --> 01:51:43,640
Speaker 3: intending to be progressive in that sense or not, but

2014
01:51:43,800 --> 01:51:46,559
Speaker 3: it's I mean, it certainly doesn't have a lot of

2015
01:51:46,560 --> 01:51:49,760
Speaker 3: the kind of nastier elements like that that you would

2016
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 3: get in a lot of other Jalla films of this stuff.

2017
01:51:51,840 --> 01:51:52,200
Speaker 2: For sure.

2018
01:51:52,479 --> 01:51:53,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2019
01:51:53,600 --> 01:51:57,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, in closing, I would absolutely agree Deep Red

2020
01:51:57,360 --> 01:51:59,360
Speaker 2: is like the total package when it comes to Jallo.

2021
01:51:59,479 --> 01:52:03,200
Speaker 2: It has, it has everything, and it delivers everything pretty

2022
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:05,759
Speaker 2: much flawlessly and with tremendous style.

2023
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:10,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, really good stuff. Some of the other good

2024
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:12,320
Speaker 3: ones if you're looking for I haven't seen these in

2025
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:15,200
Speaker 3: quite a while now, so I guess I should hesitate

2026
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:17,840
Speaker 3: to recommend. But I don't know. I remember the other

2027
01:52:19,520 --> 01:52:22,280
Speaker 3: the other Argento Jello I was talking about Bird with

2028
01:52:22,280 --> 01:52:26,720
Speaker 3: the Crystal Plumage being really good. There's one I think

2029
01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:29,040
Speaker 3: it's by Bava called All the Colors of the Dark

2030
01:52:29,120 --> 01:52:31,240
Speaker 3: that I remember liking a lot. So there's some other

2031
01:52:31,240 --> 01:52:32,200
Speaker 3: really good ones out there.

2032
01:52:32,280 --> 01:52:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Blood and Black Lace is tremendous and has some

2033
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:41,160
Speaker 2: of just the most atmospheric stalking scenes you could ever imagine,

2034
01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 2: like to the point where it feels like, oh, this

2035
01:52:44,120 --> 01:52:48,559
Speaker 2: inspired alien, I mean Bob inspired alien in other ways

2036
01:52:48,560 --> 01:52:50,680
Speaker 2: as well, but like the scene where the killer is

2037
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:53,679
Speaker 2: stalking one of the main characters in the basement. Tremendous stuff.

2038
01:52:54,080 --> 01:52:56,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when they're eating dinner and the black glove

2039
01:52:56,320 --> 01:53:01,439
Speaker 3: comes out of his stomach, that would be good.

2040
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:02,120
Speaker 2: That would be good.

2041
01:53:03,439 --> 01:53:05,160
Speaker 3: Okay, I think that's got to do it for today.

2042
01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:05,800
Speaker 3: We've gone long.

2043
01:53:06,120 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've gone long. We'll cut some of this out,

2044
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:10,400
Speaker 2: you know, but yeah, we got a little got a

2045
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:15,760
Speaker 2: little into the spirit of things for Jallo January, So

2046
01:53:16,040 --> 01:53:18,479
Speaker 2: at this point we'll give you the regular rundown here.

2047
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:20,640
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow your Mind is primarily a science and

2048
01:53:20,640 --> 01:53:25,200
Speaker 2: culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On

2049
01:53:25,240 --> 01:53:28,040
Speaker 2: Wednesdays we do a short form episode, and on Fridays

2050
01:53:28,040 --> 01:53:30,080
Speaker 2: we set aside most serious concerns to just talk about

2051
01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:33,120
Speaker 2: a weird film on Weird House Cinema. If you want

2052
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:34,759
Speaker 2: to see a list of all the movies we've covered

2053
01:53:34,760 --> 01:53:36,760
Speaker 2: over the years and sometimes a peek ahead at what

2054
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:39,599
Speaker 2: comes next. Go to letterbox dot com look us up

2055
01:53:39,640 --> 01:53:42,840
Speaker 2: our user name there is weird House. So yeah, this

2056
01:53:42,880 --> 01:53:44,160
Speaker 2: one's been a lot of fun. It was great to

2057
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:46,040
Speaker 2: finally talk about in our gento film.

2058
01:53:46,240 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.

2059
01:53:50,280 --> 01:53:52,000
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

2060
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:54,320
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

2061
01:53:54,400 --> 01:53:56,240
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

2062
01:53:56,720 --> 01:53:59,200
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

2063
01:53:59,240 --> 01:54:00,000
Speaker 3: your Mind dot.

2064
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:09,560
Speaker 1: Com on Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio.

2065
01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:13,880
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2066
01:54:13,960 --> 01:54:15,759
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.