1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Mitch McConnell says that Donald Trump's 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: pardons were a mistake. Welcome to the resistance, Mitch McConnell. 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. The 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: nation's keyd here tries to make sense of Trump's plans 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: to annex Canada and make him an American citizen. Then 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: we'll talk to Democracy now Sky Perryman about the many, many, 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: many lawsuits that her organization is filing against Trump's two 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: point zero agenda. 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: But first the news Somali. 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 3: There is now the Elon Act. 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 4: The other day I saw an Elon University sticker out 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 4: a card. 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 3: I thought, does it teach you? That's wheat badly that 16 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 3: I remembered it was real. 17 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 4: Now we have the Elon Act, which is going to 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 4: put a border between government contracts and people working in government. 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 3: What are you seeing here? 20 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: This is something if Congress had ever been at all 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: interested in legislating ever, this would have exit. This would 22 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: have been passed twenty years ago. Right, this is why 23 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: we have legislation, Right, this is why we do it. 24 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: So basically, there's a Congressman from Wisconsin, Mark Pocan, who 25 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: is going to roll out the eliminate looting of our 26 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: nation by mitigating unethical state cryptocracy quote and then in 27 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: brackets Elon Musk act. 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 3: Can we just applaud him for that? Very well done. 29 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: You know why he's doing this, eliminating looting in our 30 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: nation by mitigating unethical state cryptocracy Elon Musk Act. The 31 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: reason why he's doing this is because the chances of 32 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: this passing are exactly zero. Right, Democrats don't control the House, 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: they don't control the Senate, they don't control the presidency. 34 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: That's the understatement of the year. So the point here, 35 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: and I think it's actually smart, is just to have 36 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: it out there. You know what Mark's doing here, he's hoping. 37 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: You know, he knows that a lot of Republicans won't 38 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: read the bill, but they might read the title. 39 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: So that's very smart. 40 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: And again, the idea there is no government employee special 41 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: or not uses special in quotes should have any financial 42 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: interest in the government period. 43 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: Paragraph. 44 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is the poster child for this kind of 45 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: potential abuse. I want to just point out there was 46 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: a really smart tweet from my friend and yours, Steve Ratner, 47 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: who goes on Morning Joe alone, is very smart. That 48 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: must companies have received over fifteen billion dollars from the 49 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: United States government. So between Tesla, which has an enormous 50 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: amount of government contracts, actually Tesla only has three hundred thousand, 51 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: but SpaceX has fifteen point four billion dollars in government contracts, 52 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: and they work with NASA, the EPA, but most of 53 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: that money comes from NASA, but they also work with 54 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: the Defense Department. So when you realize that Elon Musk 55 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: makes a ton of money from the federal government, this 56 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: all makes a lot of sense. Why he should not 57 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: be running it too. He should I'll be profiting and 58 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: running the federal government. Look, this is why we have 59 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: all of this legislation, you know, the sort of post 60 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: Watergate legislation, which was to curb corruption. And so obviously 61 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: we need more legislation. It won't can pass, but it's 62 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: very good to see Democrats doing this. It's important and 63 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: useful and also what this is. And by the way, 64 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: it's important to keep remembering that Elon Musk is in 65 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: the government's computers and he's got his tech bros who 66 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: are in their twenties, and they're all in there messing 67 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: around Smiley. 68 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 4: After we get done taping yesterday, I walked up to 69 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 4: talk to my lovely wife and I encountered a television 70 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 4: with Donald Trump yapping next to Benjamin Yette Yahoo. And 71 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 4: I wanted to believe I was watching AI generated madness, 72 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 4: but in fact I was watching Trump suggest that the 73 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 4: US take a for the Gaza strip. 74 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 5: Look. 75 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: Trump has mused about what good real estate gaza is. 76 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: This is something we've seen him do before. It's what 77 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: is it. It's Trump's usual sort of freelancing what he 78 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: said yesterday. And again, remember it's Trump. So there's a 79 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: lot of you know, there's a lot of flooding the 80 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: zone shit, so nobody really knows what's happening here, And 81 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: like I want to point out that it's possible he 82 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: was just freelancing. In fact, there's a picture of Susie Wiles, 83 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: his chief of staff, when he was saying it, and 84 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: her eyes were bulging out of her head, which makes 85 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: me think, you know, it was like when Trump. Remember 86 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: when Trump said maybe if you bring the light into 87 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: the body with COVID, you can kill COVID and then 88 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: you saw you saw Deborah Burke, who was working in 89 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: the ADMIN. 90 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: Like her eyes bulging out of her head. That was 91 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: what this is like. 92 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: So anyway, we saw him talk about this to a 93 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: whole musing about how maybe he would send in American troops. 94 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,119 Speaker 1: Nobody wants American troops in the Middle East. In fact, 95 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: he was elected to make eggs cheaper. That's not happening, 96 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: and also to end endless wars, also not happening. But 97 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: he's not going to be able to send American or 98 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: if he does, there's going to be a major constitutional crisis, 99 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: which will be not surprising. 100 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 4: Personally, Malli, what did it for me? Is newest member 101 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 4: of the resistance, Rand Paul said that he didn't quite 102 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 4: see this out this as an American first agenda. 103 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: This is the most cursed timeline where Rand Paul and 104 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell are being held up as voices of sanity. 105 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: We are so incredibly. 106 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 4: Fucked speaking of the CIA has offered buyouts to the 107 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 4: entire workforce of the CIA. 108 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: So I want to point out that having to defend 109 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: the CIA is not as a lefty we don't want 110 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: to defend the CIA in our minds nation building is bad. Okay, 111 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,559 Speaker 1: I don't want you know, like usaid, We've talked about 112 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: this last week or last episode. 113 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: Hey brings me no pleasure to defend the. 114 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: FBI in the CIA, right, These are you know, organizations 115 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: filled with Republicans, and yet I think firing the entire 116 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: CIA might be a mistake. I'm just gonna go out 117 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: on a limb here and say, some of those guys 118 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: are doing pretty important stuff preventing terrorism. You know, look, 119 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: I don't even want to say this because I don't 120 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: want to jinx us, but there's a reason why we 121 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,679 Speaker 1: haven't had a wide, you know, an enormous terrorist attack 122 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: since nine to eleven. It's because these people in the CIA, 123 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: in the FBI have been keeping us safe. And I'm 124 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: sorry to tell you I take no pleasure in any 125 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: of this. But I don't think firing the entire CIA 126 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: is a good call. 127 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 6: And now I am. 128 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: Done because I'm so depressed. But yes, don't fire the CIA. 129 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: This is an insane thing to do. And you know 130 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: what the other thing is that these buyouts are all 131 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 1: just completely you know, they don't have the money for it. 132 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: It's you know, it's elon. Just try to get people 133 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: to quit so that he doesn't have to deal with them. 134 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty silly. 135 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 4: So next we come to a Politico article that, well, 136 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 4: we never like to do the I told you so thing, 137 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 4: but we should really. 138 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 5: Try to love that. 139 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 4: I should try to mark the I told you so 140 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,119 Speaker 4: with a little bit of facts of thirty seven ways 141 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 4: Project twenty twenty five has shown up in Trump's executive orders. 142 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: What you got, Molly, There are a lot of ways. 143 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: I know you're going to be shocked to hear that, just. 144 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 4: As many people are often saying, there are many ways 145 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 4: that this is showing up. 146 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: Look, Project twenty twenty five is like social issues school choice, 147 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: which is, you know, defunding public schools, allowing troops to 148 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: rejoin who decline the COVID nineteen vaccine, banning transgender troops, 149 00:07:54,920 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: closing the Office of Federal Contract Compliance programs, ending diversity 150 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: in the equity and inclusion, ending government efforts to fight misinformation, 151 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: enforce the death penalty, and execute prisoners on death row. 152 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: What else, remove DEI from federal hiring. We are just 153 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: in it in. 154 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: A way that is completely insane and Okay, we're sending 155 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: health care protections for sexual orientation and gender identity Right, 156 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: which of course restrict federal funds from supporting abortion access 157 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: abroad and under the Mexico City I mean, it's just 158 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: everything you thought using Civil Rights Act to remove gender 159 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: ideology and critical race theory, withdraw from the World Health Organization, 160 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: you know, every plan that we thought, We just knew 161 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: that this was going to be. This was how it 162 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: was going to be. And it's just incredible. You know, 163 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: when Trump said he wasn't going to do it, we 164 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: should have just no one should have believed him. And 165 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: here we are, and he's staffed a lot of project 166 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, worthy of So many people worked in Trump 167 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: one point zero, went into the Heritage Foundation or the 168 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: other groups that Row Project twenty twenty five and now 169 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: are in Trump two point zero or are on the 170 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:20,239 Speaker 1: outside trying to control it. This is just completely, completely 171 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: crazy and I'm not surprised at all, and none of 172 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: us should be. 173 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: And we saw this coming a mile away. 174 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: Jeet here is a contributor to the nation and the 175 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: host of the Time of Monsters. 176 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fast Politics. Jeat Here. 177 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 5: Always good to be on. 178 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 2: I'm such a fan of yours. 179 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny because it's like you have. 180 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,239 Speaker 7: Been coming on this podcast through the last four years 181 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 7: of normal. But you know, we certainly have had our 182 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 7: problems with Joe Biden, don't get me wrong, you know, 183 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 7: and there was certain only some things where we were 184 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 7: both i think quite agitated, like his foreign policy perhaps 185 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 7: not reflecting my own. 186 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 2: But wow, holy Molly. 187 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, we're crazy town. Now. 188 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 2: There was shock, there was awe yesterday. 189 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: There were so many things that happened, and some of 190 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: them will have lasting implications, some of them will affect 191 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: what our lives are like ten years from now, and 192 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: some of them will just be a rounding error. 193 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: So where do you want to start? 194 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean, actually, I think that's a really 195 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 5: crucial point that I think a lot of the sort 196 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 5: of Trump strategy, which I think he gets from Bannon 197 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 5: as well, is to just like, you know, creates so 198 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 5: much chaos that it confuses the opposition. And I think 199 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 5: that what has to like distinguish between things that are 200 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 5: appalling but actually like don't match policy or don't have 201 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 5: quite the policy consequences, whereas things that are actually bad 202 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 5: in terms of like actual events that are happening in 203 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 5: the world. Because you know, we know Trump is a 204 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 5: BS artist, so I actually want to like just clarify 205 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 5: that point because there's a lot of stuff that he said, 206 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 5: you know, like yesterday one of the United States to 207 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 5: take over Gaza, presumably after Palstinin's had been cleared out 208 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 5: of there, and to make the so called riviera of 209 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 5: the Middle East in Gaza. It's a great real estate 210 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 5: opportunity folks get in. 211 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: And by the way, I want to specify that we're 212 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: laughing to keep from grime because this is so dystopian 213 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: and dark. 214 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, like just like on the face of it, 215 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 5: you know, this is an American president who's calling for 216 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 5: our a ethnic clergic be you know, kind of imperialism. 217 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 2: Yes, and more American troops to the Middle East to. 218 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 5: Get yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, like if it were to happen, 219 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 5: so super appalling, even appalling if it doesn't happen, because 220 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 5: this totally discredits the United States on the world stage 221 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 5: in terms of all its claims and to support the 222 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 5: international law. Now, having said that, I want to tie 223 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 5: this in with the sort of terrifores going on because 224 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 5: it's very interesting to see how Trump operates on this 225 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 5: and I think it is a lot of this is 226 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 5: what in professional wrestling is known as k fabe. 227 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: Ooh, what's that? 228 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 5: K fabe is like how you're watching something that is 229 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 5: it's the tacit agreement between the audience and the wrestlers 230 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 5: to pretend that everything is real even though they know 231 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 5: it's not real. 232 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: Oh, that's really interesting. 233 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 5: It's a very useful term. And Trump himself the product 234 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 5: of the world of professional wrestling. I mean, this is 235 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 5: one of the reasons he's president. He's like built a 236 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 5: celebrity in the WWE world, and he's made Vince pac 237 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 5: Man's wife. She's the nominee to be at the Department 238 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 5: of Education. 239 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 2: She knows a lot about learning. 240 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 5: That's the right. Yeah, but I mean he's a professional wrestler. Like, 241 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 5: like one should no more take anything, Crump says seriously 242 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 5: than one should take the feud between a Hulk hole 243 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 5: Gan and Andre the Giant, right, Like, this is a 244 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 5: lot of this is like performative now, especially on the 245 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 5: trade wars. Like I want to underscore this because what 246 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 5: Trump has done is a He's made huge claims of 247 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 5: like you know, wanting to annex Canada, which I gotta 248 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 5: tell you in Canada is not making people very happy here. 249 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 5: Wanted to annex Greenland, wanted to take over the Panama 250 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 5: Canal again, and then having the tariffs, launching a trade war, 251 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 5: and then negotiating. And what's interesting is that what he's 252 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 5: negotiating like is actually like basically the same or like 253 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 5: less than what the US had. So like just the 254 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 5: clearst cases in Mexico where you say, like, oh wow, 255 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 5: Mexican President Claudia Shineban has agreed to send ten thousand 256 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 5: Mexican troops to supporter Well guess what underbinded that fifteen 257 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 5: thousand troops, So this is like five thousand less troops. 258 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 5: And he also got Trump to say that the US 259 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 5: will work on a major Mexican issue, which is the 260 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 5: selling of like you know, high powered military weapons made 261 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 5: in America to the Mexican cartels, which is something Mexico wants, right, 262 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 5: Like you look at the negotiations, like, you know, Mexico, 263 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 5: to my mind, came out on top of this. Now 264 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 5: in Canada like the same thing, like like you know, 265 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 5: he had trade war, threats of taking over were negotiated, 266 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 5: and what basically just In Trudeau agree to was when 267 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 5: you know, wrapping up spending on border, which he'd already 268 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 5: agreed to under Biden, and the setting up a fentanyl zar, 269 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 5: whatever the hell that means. And I gotta say, like, like, 270 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 5: in twenty twenty three, do you know how much ventanyl 271 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 5: came in was caught at the border between kind of 272 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 5: the United States? 273 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: How much ten pounds? 274 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 5: Two pounds? What? And last year was like forty eight pounds, 275 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 5: And like the Katie Van says is a massive amount 276 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 5: of ventanyl, Well it's actually like less than your average 277 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 5: like healthy dog. 278 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: Ways exactly, even my dog's way more than. 279 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 5: That, yeah, exactly. So I gotta say, like, so he's 280 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 5: getting like basically nothing. You can go down the line 281 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 5: with Panama, you know, like they agreed to break up 282 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 5: greate agreements with China, which they had already agreed to 283 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 5: break up like in twenty nineteen. So so again, he's 284 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 5: getting nothing from these agreements, but he's getting a lot 285 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 5: of theater. And I think that the theater is both 286 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 5: the sort of like to please the mega base will 287 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 5: like look on this to day all, look how strong 288 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 5: Trump's winning on the international stage. He's like beating his chest, 289 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 5: He's showing America's great again, while getting nothing and secondly, 290 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 5: I don't know if it's a deliberate strategy for distraction, 291 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 5: but it actually like takes people's focus away for the 292 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 5: real stop. And I gotta say, like for the last week, 293 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 5: you know, the real stop is Elon Musk taking control 294 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 5: of the federal government of the actual like you know, 295 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 5: going in there. This guy hey, like you know, hasn't 296 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 5: been confirmed by the said or anything, is head of this. 297 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 5: This is called DOGE, which is like, oh, only exists 298 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 5: because of like an executive order by Trump. He's not 299 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 5: a real agency. Is staffed by like you know, like 300 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 5: basically teenagers cronies of Musk whose names he doesn't even 301 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 5: want to reveal. 302 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: Right because that's docs and even though they work for 303 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: the federal government and he's stocked other federal government employees before. 304 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, and also like you know, like actually, if he 305 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 5: wants us to have a government official that's like in 306 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 5: charge of like the system that makes all your Social 307 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 5: Security checks go out, you should actually know they're right, 308 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 5: So they've taken over this. Economist Nathan Tankas has done 309 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 5: a lot of really good writing really explaining this like 310 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 5: a detail, but basically this is the beating heart of 311 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 5: the federal government. You know, just as your heart pumps 312 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 5: up blood, the financial system of finances picking out is 313 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 5: what pumps out all the checks that you know, so 314 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 5: you get your Social Security get check, you get your 315 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 5: Medicare check, you get like everything. And now Elon Musk, 316 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 5: a private citizen, happens to the world's richest man, happens 317 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 5: to have a lot of government contracts, is able to 318 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 5: look at like everyone's Social Security number, and every check 319 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 5: that goes to the federal government sends out, and he 320 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 5: can like look into the basically the contracts of all 321 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 5: his rivals and has like this enormous power. And you know, 322 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 5: they indititionally lied and said they're doing only read only, 323 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 5: but actually it's been reported by Wired they're able to 324 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 5: they're actually like changing the codes of this finance system. 325 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 5: And that is an incredibly dangerous overreach. And it's basically 326 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 5: a coup like Musk has committed like uh, successful coup 327 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 5: at the highest levels of federal power. This is like 328 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 5: a hugely worriesome thing. And I think it's actually I EI, 329 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 5: the one thing that gives me heart is that I 330 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 5: think this is something that's resonating. Individual did a zoom 331 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 5: call which crash started twenty thousand and not a lot 332 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 5: of people are going under protest, and like I think 333 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 5: as fectless as I feel that Democrats have been, so 334 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 5: she said, Trump's victory, this is actually like getting people 335 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 5: like check Schumer out there protesting and been thinking about 336 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 5: like becoming you know, like God forbid, a real opposition party. 337 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 5: So I want people to be able to distinguish, you know, 338 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 5: like it's gone like over loud territory and it's a 339 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 5: bit roundabout, but distinguished between the things that are theatrical, 340 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 5: that are basically you know, appalling on every level should 341 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 5: be condemned, Like it's not actually good for the American 342 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 5: president to talk about annexing other countries, you know, whether 343 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 5: it's Canada, Greenland or Gaza. That's not good. That should 344 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 5: be condemned straightforwardly. But it's not happening. What is actually 345 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 5: happening where where I think that folk of protests and 346 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 5: energy has to be Like I think that basically with 347 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 5: the trade stuff, like I would and the gods of stuff, 348 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 5: I wouldn't ignore it, but I would just like I 349 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 5: think the best response is just like you know, you're 350 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 5: just talking out of your hat. 351 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: Well, and also I want to add, like, I think 352 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: you're right, and I think. 353 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: There are two things though that have to be remembered. 354 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: One is that all of this is to extend tax 355 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: cuts for very rich people. None of this is needed, 356 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: None of this must happen. You can just reverse the 357 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen tax cuts and then we're all fine. Right, 358 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: there's some debt, but it's not crazy. You can balance 359 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: the budget without destroying the federal government. This is because 360 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,479 Speaker 1: it's ideologically aligned with Project twenty twenty five and the 361 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: far rights desire to crosh the federal government. 362 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 2: Sorry continue, Yeah, No. 363 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 5: I absolutely, I actually think that. I mean, I think 364 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 5: the Texest has made this point which I think has 365 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 5: to be understood. The debt leverage is going to be 366 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 5: combined with must takeover of the federal financial system. That's 367 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 5: just say, like, once the debt ceiling stuff comes in, 368 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 5: there's gonna be a lot of debate what gets well cut, 369 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 5: what doesn't, And Musk is going to be able to 370 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 5: basically docs and out and make a big show of 371 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 5: various spending programs and give that. It's going to be 372 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 5: a leverage that Trump uses for this long held project 373 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 5: like radically scaling back social services in the United States. 374 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 5: I mean the basic math is that, like, Okay, if 375 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 5: military spending is off the table, and the Trump has 376 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 5: said he wants worse money on the military, not last, 377 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 5: then the only way you can get the kind of 378 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 5: cuts that you need to finance these tax cuts is 379 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 5: you have to go after Medicare and Social Security. I mean, 380 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 5: those are like just they're just the biggest items on 381 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 5: the thing, and like everything else, all this USA USAID 382 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 5: stuff like that's just small peanuts. 383 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: Gee, just for one second, since you and I both 384 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: come from these very lefty I mean, I assume your 385 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: parents were big lefties, but my Grandpather was this communist, 386 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: Like didn't you always just assume USA was like a 387 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: cover for the CIA. 388 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I know, it's totally a cover of the CI. 389 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, it totally is. Which is also 390 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 5: kind of interesting. I mean there is I mean most 391 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 5: I think, you know, he has a lot of business 392 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 5: highs all over the world, and he's playing a lot 393 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 5: of deep games, and I think, you know, like what 394 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 5: cadrule loud that like he's like you're gonna be able 395 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 5: to plotate various foreign people who want USAID to be cut. 396 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 5: But I have to say it, like I think, on 397 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 5: the principle of it, I think, yes, a private billionaire 398 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 5: should not be allowed to cut a government agency just 399 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 5: by his whim. Like that's like crazy and it's unconstitutional 400 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 5: and it's a coup and Democrats should oppose. 401 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 3: It on that end. 402 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 5: Uh, you know, like whether and USAID does good stuff, 403 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 5: I'll grant you that, But you know, having said that, 404 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 5: like as you think a lot of the Democratic Party 405 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 5: decision to focus on USAID is the same old playbook. 406 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 5: You know, let's rally the national security state. Let's get 407 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 5: the good Republicans on board because they know the importance 408 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 5: of the stuff to and will create a bipartisan consensus 409 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 5: against Trump. I say, like that script is the work, 410 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 5: and it's a Dick Cheney strategy, Like let's talk Dick Cheney, 411 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 5: and it has especially like we now know it doesn't 412 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 5: work because you're seeing all these Republicans going on and 413 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 5: supporting Tulta Gabbard right, like they tried the same thing. 414 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 5: Gabbard quite correctly pointing out but you know, she has 415 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,719 Speaker 5: stuff that's totally outside the consensus of mas form policy. 416 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 5: But guess what Tom Cousin is a is a backup Republican, 417 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 5: he's gonna vote for her. 418 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: I want to do two seconds more on what you 419 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: just said, because I think that's really important. There has 420 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: been a branch of the Democratic Party that has truly 421 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: believed that if you just appeal to saint Republicans, they 422 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: will switch parties. So we have seen that that not 423 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 1: only does that not happen, they just leave. So the 424 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: very very few sane Republicans Jeff Flake, Ben sass gone right, 425 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: that's it. 426 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 2: Everyone else turned maga. 427 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: Even the smart sort of doctors in the Senate, and 428 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about you, Bill Cassidy, smart moral voted for 429 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: RFK Junior. So there is no normal Republican party anymore. 430 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: And the fact that Democrats keep thinking that they can 431 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: appeal to those people, and I think in some ways, 432 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: you know, Harris's campaign made this play for these educated Republican. 433 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 2: Women, Well they didn't care. So obviously those people no 434 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: longer exist. 435 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: So Democrats should just appeal to their base as opposed 436 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: to ignoring their base. 437 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, absolutely, And I just want to underscore 438 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 5: one they it's not just that they didn't win over 439 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 5: the educated Republicans, but to the extent that the Democrats 440 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 5: become the pro establishment party, because when you do that, 441 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 5: what you're saying is we are the party of the 442 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 5: mainstream establishment. The you know, old line Republicans and old 443 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 5: line Democrats were united against Trump. That actually alienates people, 444 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 5: That alienates your own base because right now America is 445 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 5: in an anti system mood. It has been for like 446 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 5: just like two thousand and eight with the financial meltdown. 447 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 5: And in an anti system mood, you don't want to 448 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 5: support the parole system party like that's your enemy. And 449 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 5: people it's not so much people go over to cramp. 450 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 5: They just stay home. 451 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 2: And that's what we saw. 452 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 5: We saw. It's absolutely happened. Some of us said it 453 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 5: is gonna happen, and you know, like I hate to 454 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 5: say I told you so, but actually I like to 455 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 5: say I told you so. 456 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: We are again not laughing for any reason other than 457 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: the world is burning down. 458 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: Actually the world is not bringing down just America. 459 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 5: But yes, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, I think I 460 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 5: think America is big enough that it can't actually take 461 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 5: down the world. Then I'd be like, don't understimate yourself. 462 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 5: Don't under I mean, like as a Canadian nationalist. Now 463 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 5: and there's a lot of Canadian nationalism, Like I sure 464 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 5: we have these fantasies like let's burn down the White 465 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 5: House again as you did in eighteen twelve, but really, honestly, 466 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 5: like you know, like we're all in this together. And 467 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 5: now having said that, so I think that like with 468 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 5: must takeover, like please don't talk about you say, I 469 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 5: D like, don't talk about how these poor like guys 470 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 5: in Langley, Virginia are gonna be out of a job, like, 471 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 5: so talk about the you know, like like actually Medicare 472 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 5: and social Security. 473 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: This is like, this is what they're targeting. 474 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 5: This is gonna be like uh uh. And that the 475 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 5: world richest man who wants to become even richer because 476 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 5: he has fantasies of setting up a utopia on Mars, 477 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 5: you know, is gonna gut the federal government and it's 478 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 5: been given like extraordinary unconstitutional power that people should be 479 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 5: out on the street for that, and that this is 480 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 5: gonna actually hurt like real people in the real world. 481 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 5: So I think it's very important not just to oppose it, 482 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 5: but to oppose it the right way. And I got 483 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 5: to say, like some of this focus on USAI D 484 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 5: like to me, like it's the Cheney mindset. 485 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: No, And I think that's a really good point that 486 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: it's Liz Cheney mindset. Liz Cheney is not I mean, 487 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: I don't know her, but she did the right thing. 488 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: But she has no constituency and so it's not a 489 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: moral tradgment. It's a you need electeds who have people 490 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: who vote them, and if you don't have that, then 491 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: there it's kind of silly. I want to just for 492 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: a minute talk about it's funny because I'm thinking about 493 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: like the best thing that ever happened to Trudeau this. 494 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I know the hob Trudeau will still be 495 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 5: kind kind of but he's gonna go out of go 496 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 5: out on a high note. And I actually think, I mean, 497 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 5: it's very I don't know if your listeners a you say, 498 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 5: Canadian are pulling, but the Liberal Party like just a 499 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 5: butt ago was headed towards a blood bath, like they 500 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 5: were headed towards like an extinction level I've had because 501 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 5: Trudeau had been blamed for like sort of you know, 502 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 5: post COVID inflation. Now they're gonna have a leadership change, 503 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 5: but actually already even before there's a new leader, you know, 504 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 5: like in Ontario, the Liberals are these poles. Certain Liberals 505 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 5: are ahead of uh, the Conservative Party, so it's not 506 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 5: going to be a blug bath. And in fact, if 507 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 5: the Conservatives can't win in Ontario, they really can't win, 508 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 5: they might get a minority government, but even though they're 509 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 5: also pulling very valid in Quebec. So those are the 510 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 5: two biggest provinces, y know, which together have like nearly 511 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 5: half of the country's population. So basically I think, yeah, 512 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 5: in a weird way, Trump has revived Canadian liberalism. I mean, 513 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 5: I think we'll probably see that in a lot of 514 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 5: other places as well. Like to the extent to which 515 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 5: various right wing parties all over the world are associated 516 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 5: with Trump, they will be very unpopular. Yeah, I mean 517 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 5: I think that's like a cold comfort I feel to 518 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 5: I buy American friends. But it is absolutely the case 519 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 5: that we're seeing You're going to see a global reaction 520 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 5: against us. And what I think maybe the longer term 521 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 5: is something we're thinking about is like when you see 522 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 5: in the Canadian elite, and especially even amongst our centrist 523 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 5: and conservative types, this like idea like you know, we 524 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 5: can't trust America the president of America. We can It's 525 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 5: like professional wrestling kfabe but still like you having the 526 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 5: President of America saying, you know, Knada is not a 527 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 5: real country. We have to like Annax said, you know, 528 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 5: like so you actually see people like very like people 529 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 5: who had been in conservative governments in the past. Buy's 530 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 5: never been say like, okay, we got to start. Can 531 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 5: we get Canada in the European Union. Can we get 532 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 5: Canada to get trade agreements in Asia and in Latin America? 533 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 5: Can we work around the United States? Can we have 534 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 5: like you know, like hedge oar bats, you know, diversify 535 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 5: our assets, like like move beyond the United States. And 536 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 5: I don't think that's in Canada alone. Like if you 537 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 5: have like the co president Elon musk Is, you know, 538 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 5: pushing like the far right in Germany, well guess what 539 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 5: like in Germany, like you know, like the more brace 540 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 5: stream people are gonna be thinking, like, you know, America, 541 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 5: they saved us from naziuseam but where are they now? 542 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 5: What is America now? It's not the America or anything good. 543 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: It's get here. I hope you'll come back. 544 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 5: Yes, of course. Always. You can't give me away. You 545 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 5: can't give me away. 546 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: Sky Perryman is the President of Democracy Forward. 547 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fast Politics Sky. 548 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 6: Hey did it always be here? What a world? 549 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, So talk to me about what is going on 550 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: right now, what your organization is doing to hold this 551 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: new whatever this is accountable. 552 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 6: Well, look, first of all, I want to say, we 553 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 6: know a lot many of Americans, including so many people 554 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 6: on our team, are in a really hard time right 555 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 6: now because this administration came in and just immediately started 556 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 6: engaging in such behavior that is really I mean, hold 557 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 6: living up, funding for community programs and essential services like 558 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 6: meals on wheels, and disregarding the basic rights of people. 559 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 6: So I just want to say, at the outset, we're 560 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 6: going to talk about some things we're doing to make 561 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 6: things better, but I don't want to undermine how the 562 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 6: paint the fear that people are feeling at this point. 563 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 6: But in the Court Democracy Forward, our organization, we have 564 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 6: brought a number of cases against the administration's unlawful activity. 565 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 6: I believe as of yesterday we had brought more cases 566 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 6: than any other single organization or any ag But we 567 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 6: are working so closely with so many organizations that are 568 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 6: doing this work, and we had to mobilize and get 569 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 6: into court last week to stop the freeze of essential 570 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 6: services across the country where the administration just with the 571 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 6: stroke of a pence, you know, tried to cut off 572 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 6: everything for meals on wheels to head start to grant 573 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 6: portals that were important for people's health care. I mean, 574 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 6: it was really scary, and we were able to get 575 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 6: into court overnight on behalf of some great clients, the 576 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 6: American Public Health Association, the National Council of Nonprofits, SAGE, 577 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 6: and Main Street Alliance. We were able to get in 578 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 6: court and block that. 579 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: Can you explain to me what the sort of legal 580 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: plan is and how it works exactly? 581 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? 582 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 6: I mean, look, the legal plan is pretty simple. When 583 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 6: Donald Trump violates the law and harms people and communities, 584 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 6: he's going to have to answer in court for that behavior. 585 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 6: We knew a lot of what he was going to 586 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 6: do because it was all in a Project twenty twenty five, right, 587 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 6: and we were ready to go. And that's why you 588 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 6: see so many groups suing on birthright, citizenship other things. 589 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 6: We were ready to go on those things. We also 590 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 6: do that this administration wants to govern by chaos and confusion. 591 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 6: That's one of the things they want to do. They 592 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 6: want to throw people off kilter, and so we prepared 593 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 6: for a long time to have the resources to be 594 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 6: able to swiftly bring challenges. They were shocked that in 595 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 6: the middle of the night we were able to get 596 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 6: into court with great clients to stop what they were 597 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 6: doing with the funding. You know, we're in court today 598 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 6: because yesterday there were reports that the US Doge Service 599 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 6: is going to enter the Department of Labor and try 600 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 6: to misappropriate and take economic data across the country. I mean, 601 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 6: just really terrible behavior. But we're able to mobilize and 602 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 6: move very swiftly to get in court because of the 603 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 6: preparation and because of the great warriors that are joining 604 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 6: this work. So that the strategy is that as they 605 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 6: act unlawfully, we're going to see them in court. And 606 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 6: I did some accounting on the back of an envelope 607 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 6: this morning, and there's not a single federal judge in 608 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 6: this country that has ruled that they're doing anything lawfully. 609 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 6: I mean, in every court challenge that's been brought where 610 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 6: judges have considered these things and brought them to temporary orders, 611 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 6: everyone including Reagan appointed judges, are saying that the administration 612 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 6: is acting unlawfully. So we just have to do more 613 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 6: lawsuits if they continue to violate the law and harm people. 614 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 6: So here's my question for you. 615 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is basically doing whatever you want, right, I mean, 616 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: he has a crew of people. They are getting into everything. 617 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: What is the sort of is that illegal? And can 618 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: it be stopped by the courts? 619 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 6: It's completely unlawful. I do think it will be stopped 620 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 6: by the courts. There's a hearing where I know we're 621 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 6: recording this, but there's a hearing that's going to happen 622 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 6: in a few minutes while we're on this podcast that's 623 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 6: seeking to stop the misappropriation of data at Treasury. We 624 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 6: have filed a suit this morning and are about to 625 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 6: put a tro on file to stop them from doing this. 626 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 6: At the Department of Labor, we've you know, already stopped 627 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 6: the funding free So these are things that are completely 628 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 6: on lane. They violate the Federal Privacy Act, they violate 629 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 6: the protections against arbitrary and capricious and unlawful government activity, 630 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 6: they violate a range of other standards, and I think 631 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 6: you're going to see the courts issue orders to stop 632 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 6: these things as soon as possible. 633 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: What happens when Trump bold starts ignoring these orders when, 634 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: for example, like birthright citizenship now is indefinitely his play 635 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: on the fourteenth Amendment and definitely frozen. What happens when 636 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: Trump World is like forget that these courts are I mean, 637 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: what happens then? 638 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 6: Well, you know a lot of people ask this question, 639 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 6: and I think, you know, I want to kind of 640 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 6: take it piece by piece. I mean, number one, we 641 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 6: need to get the orders out there, right, we need 642 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 6: to get at the court and have judges do what 643 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 6: they have already been doing. 644 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 2: No, you have to do this, yeah, for sure. 645 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 6: And what we have seen in those cases last week, 646 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 6: there was a concern that they weren't complying with the 647 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 6: funding that the pause and the funding freeze order, and 648 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 6: the judges already called that out. And we have seen 649 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 6: them capitulate in some ways. So for instance, after a 650 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 6: tro was entered and another funding case that the AG's brought, 651 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 6: they issued guidance across the government. So part of it 652 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 6: is making sure the courts are really putting lawyers through 653 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 6: the paces. 654 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 2: That's great. 655 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, lawyers gotthical obligation to follow court orders. And people 656 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 6: don't want their bar license in jeopardy because their clients 657 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 6: are not following court orders, and so I think that 658 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 6: there are some places within our process. 659 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: I want to just keep going for a second, because 660 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: I think that's really important. A lot of lawyers got 661 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: disbarred after Trump one point zero, So that is a 662 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: real thing that can happen continue, and you don't. 663 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 6: Want to have to show up to court and explain 664 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 6: why your client is not operating consistently with the court orders, 665 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 6: which is already starting to happen. So I will say that, 666 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 6: like the lawyers on the side of people in democracy 667 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 6: are lawyers, the state AG's lawyers, other organizations, We're going 668 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 6: to push that if there are attempts to evade court orders. 669 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 6: Now the issue then is what if there are attempts 670 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 6: to evade court orders, and what if the courts keep 671 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,479 Speaker 6: ruling one way and the administration just does that sort 672 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 6: of just operates completely outside those balance. I think that 673 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 6: is a crisis that's you know, there's a number of 674 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 6: crises in this country because of this administration and how 675 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 6: they are operating. That is one crisis that could emerge, 676 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 6: and our constitution provides checks to that. I mean, at 677 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 6: some point, Congress and not just the Democrats in Congress, 678 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 6: right at some point, Congress as a body has to 679 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 6: step in. I think that this extreme behavior it threatens 680 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 6: actually Congressism power, it threatens the Court's power. And so 681 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 6: I do think you're going to see the checks and 682 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 6: balances in our branches of government be an important counterweight. 683 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 6: I mean, I will say that I do believe that 684 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 6: they will be. And I think the main thing right now, 685 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 6: in these early days is to for the administration to 686 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 6: understand that if they do these things, they're going to 687 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 6: have to go to court. I mean, they rescinded them 688 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 6: last week because we went into court and got an 689 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 6: order pausing it, and then there were concerns about their 690 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 6: compliance with the order, right, and then they were send 691 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 6: the memo and then now you know, the court is 692 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 6: not fooled by that and has issued in. 693 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 2: Order to protect people. 694 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 6: But I just want to say, like, I think that 695 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 6: it's that kind of retail level court advocacy that we're 696 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 6: going to have to do right now to protect people 697 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 6: in communities. 698 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: Right, So talk to me about kind of what the 699 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: strategy here is. There are so many things in my 700 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: mind that seem like blatantly unconstitutional. The data stuff feels 701 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: very high onless what else are you seeing? 702 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 2: What else are you keeping track of and what else 703 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 2: are you litigating? 704 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 6: Again, Well, look, there are a number of attempts to 705 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 6: just limit Americans' freedoms. And we sued, you know, last 706 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 6: week on this DEI anti DEI orders that on behalf 707 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 6: of the American Association of University Professors, on behalf of 708 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 6: the National Council of Higher Education, Diversity officers, on behalf 709 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 6: of restaurant workers, and the city of Baltimore. So everyone 710 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 6: from the Ivory Tower to Main Street to wage workers 711 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 6: are all in this case. And the case is not 712 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 6: just about DEI. It's about our freedom of expression and 713 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 6: our freedom of speech, and this presidence and this administration's 714 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:26,919 Speaker 6: attempt to unconstitutionally condition funding and other program benefits on 715 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 6: particular viewpoints, and that is unconstitutional. And so you know 716 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 6: that was right out of Project twenty twenty five. But 717 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 6: we have those suits ready to go. We have sued 718 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 6: on behalf of religious communities across the country to block 719 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 6: ICE from entering churches rightah and schools right right, there's 720 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 6: sensitive locations. And so I just so I think like 721 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 6: some of it is just really making sure that where 722 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 6: people's rights are violated under the Constitution that there are 723 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 6: swift challenges and other organizations are doing that too. The 724 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 6: other piece of the strategy is to make sure that 725 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 6: where there have been policy advances, Okay, remember you know 726 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 6: Medicare drug price negotiation, that's won't bring people's drug prices, 727 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 6: hip a privacy, and reproductive privacy, those types of protections 728 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 6: were being challenged by the Project twenty twenty five groups 729 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 6: in the courts and them of Justice under the Biden 730 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 6: administration was defending those and now you know, I don't 731 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 6: know that Bondie's Department of Justice, you know, has not 732 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 6: really shown that they will vigorously defend those policies. And 733 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 6: so that's that's not headline grabbing work. But we're doing 734 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 6: a lot to intervene in those cases to make sure 735 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 6: that those policies are protected on behalf of Americans. So 736 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 6: it's like, challenge the Project twenty twenty five blueprint, challenge 737 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 6: other blatant violations of people's rights, right, defend the policies 738 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 6: that need to be defended. And then the other part 739 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 6: is what I call the kind of chaos factor. Right, 740 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 6: this is administration that wants to throw people off guard. 741 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,479 Speaker 6: I don't understand that I don't understand why you become 742 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 6: the president of the United States to go to war 743 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 6: with your own people when you're saying shot on all that. 744 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 2: But we know that playbook. 745 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 6: It's an old playbook of theirs, and so we're ready 746 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 6: now to be able to respond to the chaos. And 747 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 6: that is what my team has been doing around the 748 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 6: clock to make sure tros are filed quickly, you know, 749 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:18,919 Speaker 6: the funding freezes paused, that data is protected, and other 750 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 6: organizations are doing that as well, and people can learn 751 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 6: more about those efforts at a project that we launched 752 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 6: called Democracy twenty twenty five dot org, where you can 753 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 6: learn more. The other piece, Molly, is the civil service. 754 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 6: Should we talk about that for a minute. 755 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: Please, please please, because a lot of this is a 756 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: war on nonpartisan government employees exactly. 757 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 6: So you know, in the eighteen hundred, after there were 758 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 6: concerns that the government was really not delivering for people, 759 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 6: the country moved from what was called the spoil system 760 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 6: to the civil service system that we have now, where 761 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 6: the majority of people that are doing the work of 762 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 6: the American people, delivering our mail, making sure our food 763 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 6: is labeled appropriately, protecting our air and water quality, helping 764 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 6: us at the airports, protecting our communities. The majority, the 765 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 6: vast majority of those two point two million civil servants 766 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 6: who live and work, by the way across the United 767 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 6: States and every single state, their non part is and 768 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 6: they work for Republican administrations, and they work for Democratic administrations, 769 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 6: and they swear an oath to the Constitution, and that's 770 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 6: the oath they have. Well, that type of a system 771 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 6: is a real threat to people like Donald Trump who 772 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 6: want to govern by, you know, governed by this narrow 773 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 6: and rigid ideology, to create a country that's only for 774 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 6: some and not for all of us. And so we 775 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 6: have seen an outright assault on our nations public servants. 776 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 6: We've seen a retribution agenda at the Department of Justice 777 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 6: and in other agencies, but we've also just seen an 778 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 6: outright assault on average Americans that have federal jobs, that 779 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 6: are just doing their job and taking care of people. 780 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 6: So they have already sought to reimpose Schedule F, which 781 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 6: was one of our project twenty twenty five, you know, 782 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 6: top that one of their product twenty twenty five Top 783 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 6: P Priorities. We've filed two lawsuits on that. They have 784 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 6: sent out a document purporting to try to buy out 785 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 6: the federal workforce, but they're doing it in a way that, 786 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 6: like Congress hasn't even appropriated funds. I mean, they're doing 787 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 6: it in a way that it's not even clear if 788 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 6: the buyout is actually something they would deliver on. It's 789 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 6: you know, it's a scam, and so we filed yesterday, 790 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 6: you know, to challenge that behavior. And then individual civil 791 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 6: servants who are being placed on leads and who are 792 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 6: being exited out of the government will have rights too, 793 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 6: and some of those rights they'll they'll have to go 794 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 6: to other forums. Sometimes they don't go straight into district court. 795 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 6: Sometimes they can, but we are working to build as 796 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 6: many legal defenses as possible and to help the people 797 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 6: who have really helped our country. And your listeners can 798 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 6: go to Civil Servicestrong dot org, which is one of 799 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 6: our projects, civil servicestrong dot org and learn more about 800 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,799 Speaker 6: how they can support the civil service and if they 801 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 6: are a civil servant, how they can get access to resources. 802 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 2: That's great. 803 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: Do you think these civil servants should write the CIA 804 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: is being offered buyout, the FBI is being offered buyouts. 805 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: Should people take these buyouts? 806 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 6: You know, I am never going to advise anybody with 807 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 6: their personal situation. But I think that you've seen a 808 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 6: number of state attorneys, generals, the unions, a number of 809 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 6: advocates and policymakers say, you know, proceed with caution. And 810 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 6: then of course we have sued in court because we 811 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 6: believe what they've done is unlawful, that it's very unclear, 812 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 6: it's potentially misleading, misleading, and that there's not even funds 813 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 6: appropriated for these purported buyouts. We have a lot of 814 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 6: concern that if people take them, they could get rescinded 815 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 6: in some way because there aren't funds. We have a 816 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 6: lot of concerns about the vague language and the sort 817 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 6: of roving the sort of roving positions people are taking, 818 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 6: and then the fact that the agency really just did 819 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 6: not even have legal authority to do this, to offer 820 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,479 Speaker 6: them anyway. Right, Yeah, So all of those are that's 821 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 6: in court that you know. So what I hope is 822 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 6: that if people are able, and I know everyone's in 823 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 6: their own personal circumstance, but we're at this point of 824 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 6: this country that we are going to get we're going 825 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,399 Speaker 6: to move forward only if we all commit to each 826 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 6: other as a community, as a national community, that the 827 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 6: best of this country, that the people of this country, 828 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 6: that democracy in this country is not going to go 829 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,280 Speaker 6: down without a fight and without a lot of people 830 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 6: doing everything they can in their own personal lives in 831 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 6: this moment. And so you've got lawyers working around the clock, 832 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,399 Speaker 6: you have civil servants who are being disrespected that are 833 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 6: still going into work to do their job to deliver 834 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 6: for people. I was over on Capitol Hill today. You 835 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 6: have members of Congress. I mean, we are all going 836 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 6: to have to do our part, and so I hope 837 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 6: that people will look at it through that lens and 838 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 6: do what's right for them that also know that the 839 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 6: American people just really appreciate our civil servants for sure. 840 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: Tell me first what you think elected Democrats should be 841 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: doing to support the really important federal employees and what's 842 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: happening right now. 843 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 6: Look, I think that they're really seeking to raise awareness 844 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 6: about what's happening. I mean a lot of these federal employees, 845 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 6: guess what, they live and work and serve people in 846 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 6: Republican areas, in red areas across the country, Florida. I 847 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 6: don't have my numbers in front of me. I think 848 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 6: it's something like eighty thousand federal employees, maybe more than that, right, 849 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 6: just you know in the deepest drided states. And so 850 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 6: I think that part of this is making sure that 851 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 6: those that are not supporting the civil service, whether they 852 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 6: are in the administration or whether they are in Congress, 853 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 6: are really held to account. And there are ways to 854 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 6: do that, and I think you'll see members of Congress 855 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 6: that support the civil service continuing to do that. And 856 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 6: then a lot of it is supporting the legal challenges 857 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 6: and then making this a salient issue. I mean, this 858 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 6: should be an issue people that are putting our civil 859 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 6: servants out of work, that are making it harder for 860 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 6: Americans to get what they need. Those people should be 861 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 6: put out of the job in two years, right, and 862 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 6: I think in the midterms, and I think that elevating 863 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 6: these issues in those ways is going to be. 864 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,720 Speaker 1: Really important, right. And I think that's a really good point. 865 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,240 Speaker 1: Talk to me about sort of any other legal challenges 866 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: that you're doing right now. 867 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 6: We sued DOSEE on the first day of the administration. 868 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 6: There was a flurry of lawsuits against DOGE. We're trying 869 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,399 Speaker 6: to protect houses of worship from being turned into law 870 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 6: enforcement facilities. Against ice. We have these three civil service lawsuits. 871 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,479 Speaker 6: We literally just filed before I got on the phone 872 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 6: with you, a lawsuit that we're going to try to 873 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 6: have heard today to prevent DOGE from coming into the 874 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 6: Department of Labor and the Department of Labor from sort 875 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 6: of seating very highly sensitive data on the entire American workforce, 876 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 6: sensitive data about workers in the country, health data, you know, 877 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,280 Speaker 6: to sort of see that, so that will be heard. 878 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 6: We have challenged a variety of the executive orders as 879 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 6: violations of the First Amendment, and we are working you know, 880 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 6: you're looking at these grant terminations, usaid, unpaid leave, all 881 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 6: of those issues we were planning to litigate. So you'll 882 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 6: see a lot more from us in the days ahead. 883 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you scot. 884 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 6: Well, thank you for having me on, and thank you 885 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,800 Speaker 6: Molly for everything that you're doing to make sure people 886 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 6: are getting the message. And I think for so much, 887 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 6: and you and I talk about this every time I 888 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 6: come on, but just remember that there are far right 889 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,359 Speaker 6: movements in this country and the Trump administration that want 890 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,839 Speaker 6: people to feel like they have no power and that 891 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,680 Speaker 6: they have no reason to hope. And our work goes 892 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 6: every day that we do have power and that we 893 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 6: can find hope in each other and in utilizing that 894 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 6: power for the future. And so that's what we're going 895 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,879 Speaker 6: to continue to do every day, and I'll come back 896 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 6: and talk to you about it. Great, Thank you, great, 897 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:45,879 Speaker 6: Thanks so much. 898 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 3: There no moth. 899 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 4: Jesse Cannon Somali four or four Media, one of my 900 00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:01,240 Speaker 4: favorite media outlets, has a really, really bad article about 901 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 4: how Dose employees have been ordered to stop using slackball 902 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,280 Speaker 4: agency transitions to a record system not subject to FOYE, 903 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 4: which really is one of those nightmare scenarios we kind 904 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,760 Speaker 4: of knew when we'd get into encrypted technologies would probably happen, 905 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,439 Speaker 4: but here we are in hell. 906 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 5: Yeah. 907 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: I mean, look, I think that we shouldn't be so 908 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,239 Speaker 1: surprised that this was happening. None of our data is 909 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 1: safe now we have all of these people who are 910 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: in it, they or don't have the same kind of 911 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,280 Speaker 1: compliance they are, you know, doing a lot of stuff 912 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,719 Speaker 1: that is really it might be fine, it might not 913 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,759 Speaker 1: be fine, right, I Mean, that's that's going to be 914 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: the big question here, and there are going to be 915 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,720 Speaker 1: all sorts of unforeseen consequences that we don't even know about. 916 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 2: And I'm not surprised. 917 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 7: You know. 918 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 919 00:46:54,680 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best 920 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: US minds and politics makes sense of all this chaos. 921 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a 922 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going. 923 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:11,240 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.