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Speaker 1: On this episode of This World. The fires sweeping across

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles County, California for the past week have burned

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Speaker 1: more than forty thousand acres, or an area slightly larger

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Speaker 1: than Washington, d C. At least twenty four people have

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Speaker 1: died and more than one hundred thousand people have been

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Speaker 1: forced to leave their homes. More than twelve thousand homes, businesses, schools, churches,

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Speaker 1: and other structures have been destroyed by the fires, and

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Speaker 1: the fires are still raging. I wanted to understand more

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Speaker 1: about how the fires initially began and how they will

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Speaker 1: finally be contained, so I'm really pleased to welcome my

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Speaker 1: two guests, who are both from the city of Laguna

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Speaker 1: Beach in Orange County, California, Mayor Alice Vernagi and fire

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Speaker 1: Chief Nicocaine. Alex and Nico, welcome and thank you for

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Speaker 1: joining the Beach World.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having us.

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Speaker 3: Thank you it's an honor.

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Speaker 1: As I understand that you both were in Pacific Palisades

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Speaker 1: on Monday surveying the damage and checking in on your

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Speaker 1: Laguna Beach firefighters who were their assisting Los Angeles County firefighters.

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Speaker 1: Tell us for a couple of minutes about that experience.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we start with you, mister Mayor.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, speaker Gingridge.

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Speaker 4: You really cannot overstate the devastation that we saw.

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Speaker 5: The amount of homes that were burned.

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Speaker 4: There were so many of them, and what was remarkable

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Speaker 4: was it wasn't like all the new homes that were

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Speaker 4: recently built were able to stay. Some of the homes

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Speaker 4: that were remaining were old homes somewhere new.

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Speaker 3: It was totally inconsistent.

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Speaker 4: It just speaks to the power of this fire with

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Speaker 4: these winds. The other remarkable takeaway was how people had

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Speaker 4: to evacuate so quickly. At least twenty four people have died,

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Speaker 4: but it was remarkable that in some ways that so

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Speaker 4: few people have died given how much station there has been.

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Speaker 4: The other takeaway was how precarious our fire safety is.

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Speaker 4: For Laguna Beach, for example, we have small roads, we

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Speaker 4: have above ground utility lines, we have many of the

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Speaker 4: things that happen in Pacific Palisades. Chief King and our

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Speaker 4: city manager, and we used it sort of as an

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Speaker 4: opportunity to learn how we can improve our fire preparedness.

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Speaker 4: But again, our hearts go out to those who have

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Speaker 4: lost their lives. Those who've lost their homes. And I

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Speaker 4: think it's also just a reminder of how lucky we

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Speaker 4: are to have our first responders and firefighters who are

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Speaker 4: literally willing to put their lives on the line to

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Speaker 4: protect all of us. So, Chief King can tell us more.

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Speaker 1: Chief can you provide insight both into how the fires

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles begin but also you have folks up

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Speaker 1: there right now helping. How are they doing and what's

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Speaker 1: the impact on them.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we were able to send an engine crew initially,

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Speaker 6: which we staff with three persons and it's part of

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Speaker 6: the master mutual a process. And as the Mayor eluded,

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Speaker 6: and we know this fire it started, but when it's

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Speaker 6: fanned by up to ninety mile an hour winds heading

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Speaker 6: towards residential areas, you just can't move people fast enough

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Speaker 6: sending our crews there. Even as close as we are

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Speaker 6: to Los Angeles County and to the Palisades, they're.

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Speaker 2: Just screaming for resources.

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Speaker 6: Our initial engine that went there, they immediately went into

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Speaker 6: a neighborhood and they're assigned to protect some of the

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Speaker 6: homes and they made statements like an unstoppable force with

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Speaker 6: the ember showers and a flame front that's coming through

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Speaker 6: the area, and truly their distractions are life safety, which

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Speaker 6: is always our number one priority, and they're just trying

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Speaker 6: to get the folks out and there's so many people

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Speaker 6: that they said that they had to stop a firefight,

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Speaker 6: put the hose down, and help somebody finish loading their car,

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Speaker 6: or give them some sort of direction on how to

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Speaker 6: get out.

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Speaker 2: Of the neighborhood.

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Speaker 6: But you're exactly right with the question of the toll.

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Speaker 6: It's the adrenaline that the firefighters go through for the

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Speaker 6: initial attack of a fire, and they're operational and active,

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Speaker 6: and you're running on it that adrenaline in their case

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Speaker 6: up to thirty six hours, and then it's the days

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Speaker 6: following that you're looking at the impact of the disaster,

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Speaker 6: the impact of the several people's lives, and then you

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Speaker 6: start coming into contact with those individuals, those homeowners, and

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Speaker 6: you start to listen to the stories and you're trying

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Speaker 6: to help people get back into their homes and look

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Speaker 6: at the damage which is being controlled, and it's happening

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Speaker 6: slowly because there's still a lot of hazards that exist.

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Speaker 6: But you start to process, you start to process all

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Speaker 6: of the disaster and what you just experienced and it

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Speaker 6: absolutely takes a toll almost firefighters. It does emotionally. You're

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Speaker 6: physically exhausted, and you're experiencing and witnessing a lot of

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Speaker 6: the emotion of someone that just lost everything that they

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Speaker 6: have and they're trying to figure out what the first

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Speaker 6: next step is.

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Speaker 1: Should we be bringing in more people from around the country.

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Speaker 6: I would say they have the resources that they need.

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Speaker 6: I'll stop there and say that when you have a

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Speaker 6: flame front like they witnessed with a ninety mile an

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Speaker 6: hour wind, I don't know that there is enough fire

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Speaker 6: engines with just hose and water that are gonna make

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Speaker 6: a big impact. You can't just stand in front of

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Speaker 6: that force of nature and stop it. It's just much

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Speaker 6: too powerful. Our firefighters, as brave as they are, is

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Speaker 6: getting in there can't eventually find a house at the

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Speaker 6: edge of the fire that maybe they can start putting

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Speaker 6: out small flyers and stop the progress. But really they're

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Speaker 6: number one priorities to be in there and to get

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Speaker 6: the people out.

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Speaker 1: I get the sense of the fire still substantial way

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Speaker 1: from being under control, and that if the winds come

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Speaker 1: back up again with the kind of force they've had,

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Speaker 1: it's a real problem.

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Speaker 2: It is a problem, and we try to frontload all

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Speaker 2: of our.

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Speaker 6: Responses in southern California with the state of our vegetation

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Speaker 6: and the drought and just the low humidity. We tried

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Speaker 6: to have an initial response of several engines and even

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Speaker 6: launching helicopters at the first call to nine to one

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Speaker 6: one that there's a report of a fire in the wildland.

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Speaker 6: That's been our best tactic, that's what's worked historically.

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Speaker 2: But it's when those small.

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Speaker 6: Fires quickly outrun the resources that are arriving. Where you

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Speaker 6: have these major conflagrations. You know, we're seeing it more

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Speaker 6: and more over time. It seems like we're seeing about

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Speaker 6: one a year, and I think it's time. The fire

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Speaker 6: surface is going to dig in and we're going to

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Speaker 6: probably look towards different technology and new ways, new approaches

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Speaker 6: to combat these major conflagrations.

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Speaker 1: For those of us outside of California, what are the

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Speaker 1: shanta Ana winds and how do they get to be

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Speaker 1: so strong.

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Speaker 6: It's a weather phenomena that does occur, and if you

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Speaker 6: live in southern California you've become quite familiar with it.

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Speaker 6: But it has to do with high pressures and low

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Speaker 6: pressures in the Western United States, and it's a warmer,

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Speaker 6: dry air that's over Nevada, and as it begins to

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Speaker 6: transfer to a lower pressure, it squeezes through the mountains,

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Speaker 6: it loses all of its humidity and becomes a very

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Speaker 6: dry air. And then as it continues to compress, it

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Speaker 6: goes through canyons and valleys as it goes through the mountains,

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Speaker 6: and then by the time it gets to us here

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Speaker 6: on the coast, it's incredibly concentrated because it's been traveling

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Speaker 6: faster and faster with more pressure behind it. It's extremely dry,

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Speaker 6: and it comes straight through our canyons out into the ocean.

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Speaker 6: So it's expected seasonally and we're always waiting for it.

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Speaker 6: And that's when we declare our red flag days and

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Speaker 6: we're in a state of readiness.

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Speaker 1: Should we have a lot more airplanes that are equipped

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Speaker 1: to deliver fire retardant.

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Speaker 6: The state of California is very well resourced. Not only

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Speaker 6: are we well resourced, but they are on the ready.

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Speaker 6: CalFire has a large fleet and then they have contract

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Speaker 6: services or other firefighting fixed wing and the helicopters. They're

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Speaker 6: some of the best and the pilots do some amazing things.

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Speaker 6: As I was looking at a live map that showed

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Speaker 6: all the air resources. It definitely was not a shortage

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Speaker 6: of air resources.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, that airspace is quite crowded.

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Speaker 6: You have to have dozens or so of helicopters and

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Speaker 6: the fixed wings with flight patterns and making sure that

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Speaker 6: they're all coordinated and can get to the fire and

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Speaker 6: make their drops and stay at different elevations and move

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Speaker 6: in a certain pattern so they're not creating hazards for themselves.

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Speaker 2: And the State of.

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Speaker 6: California does an incredible job at controlling those aircraft.

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Speaker 1: Mister Maryor You've been very innovative in fire prevention and

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Speaker 1: lagoon the beach. Did you pick up anything when you've

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Speaker 1: been up looked and what's been going on that might

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Speaker 1: lead you to in some way change what you're already

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Speaker 1: doing in your community.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the good thing, if there is a

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Speaker 4: good thing about our visit to see the devastation, was

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Speaker 4: that it really reaffirmed a lot of the strategies that

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Speaker 4: we're already employing. So, for example, our firefighters showed us

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Speaker 4: a video when they were fighting a fire to prevent

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Speaker 4: it from going into a neighborhood, and there was a

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Speaker 4: three hundred foot break that was there because of fuel modification,

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Speaker 4: and you could literally see how physically that was able

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Speaker 4: to stop the fire from advancing.

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Speaker 3: At the quick pace that it previously was. So fuel

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Speaker 3: modification is.

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Speaker 4: Something that we're going to be doubling down on and

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Speaker 4: continue expanding. We could talk more about our GOAT program later.

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Speaker 4: The other takeaway was the need to underground above ground

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Speaker 4: utility lines. We often think as above ground utility lines

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Speaker 4: as getting a cause afire, and they absolutely are a

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Speaker 4: cause of fire. But when the firefighters are fighting a fire,

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Speaker 4: they were telling us how they have no idea whether

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Speaker 4: or not the above ground utility lines are energized or not,

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Speaker 4: and so that leads them to have to basically be

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Speaker 4: defending themselves against the fire while also making sure that

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Speaker 4: the above ground utility line doesn't explode. They described having

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Speaker 4: wires hanging down and this also it's in the way

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Speaker 4: of evacuation. And then finally, water is something that we

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Speaker 4: are laser focused on in Laguna Beach number one, because

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Speaker 4: we want local water reliability as we deal with future

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Speaker 4: issues from Colorado and from our state water project.

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Speaker 3: We don't want to be dependent on any of them.

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Speaker 4: So we're focused on a plan to get us to

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Speaker 4: one hundred percent local water reliability through desalination to the

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Speaker 4: south and then through a groundwater weld with our friends

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Speaker 4: in Newport Beach to the north. So when you have

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Speaker 4: so much demand on the water system, it becomes almost

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Speaker 4: impossible to not run.

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Speaker 3: Out of water.

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Speaker 4: In nineteen ninety three, we had one of the most

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Speaker 4: devastating fires in the state of California at the time,

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Speaker 4: and we ran out of water. Since then, we've added

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Speaker 4: two reservoirs. We've gone all in on increasing our water supply,

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Speaker 4: but I think we probably need to do even more

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Speaker 4: because these types of fires are the new normal, and

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Speaker 4: so we need to ensure that we have the water

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Speaker 4: resources necessary to never have a situation where our firefighters

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Speaker 4: are fighting a fire and they don't have water.

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Speaker 1: What percent of your water can you get from desalinization?

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Speaker 4: We can get up to one hundred percent, So we're

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Speaker 4: working with South Coast Water District on the Dohini Desalination project,

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Speaker 4: but it'll ultimately probably be about a third of our

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Speaker 4: water supply, and then with the other two thirds coming

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Speaker 4: from groundwater, which we're partnering with Newport Beach on building

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Speaker 4: a new well. So right now we're on one hundred

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Speaker 4: percent imported water. But our goal in next two years

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Speaker 4: is to go from one hundred percent imported to one

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Speaker 4: hundred percent local.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. Is that mostly through wells?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, through wells because we don't have groundwater under us.

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Speaker 4: But we're working on a deal with Fountain Valley in

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Speaker 4: Newport to build the well there and that'll get us

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Speaker 4: to two thirds, and then the remaining one third will

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Speaker 4: be de se because really Speaker Gingridge, what we're dealing

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Speaker 4: with in California in the future will be earthquakes. We're

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Speaker 4: going to have significant earthquakes that could undermine our reliability.

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Speaker 5: So we want to have a system where we're getting.

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Speaker 4: Water from multiple sources so that we're not relying on

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Speaker 4: just one source. So we can add that to the

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Speaker 4: list of things to worry about as earthquakes, in addition

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Speaker 4: to fires and all the rest.

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Speaker 1: The north Ridge earthquake was a good example of something

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Speaker 1: which just was tremendously disruptive to traffic in the whole region.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: They can't help but ask you describe in terms of

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Speaker 1: vegetation monitoring, how you got to the use of goats

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Speaker 1: and to what degree that works.

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Speaker 3: Chief King, do you want to step in here.

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Speaker 6: It was quite ingenious for a fire chief to take

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Speaker 6: a look at this program back in nineteen ninety one,

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Speaker 6: and they are used for grazing and clearing some open space,

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Speaker 6: but as a fire prevention tool, they thought they'd give

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Speaker 6: it a shot back in the Kuna Beach. So if

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Speaker 6: people are familiar with goats and what they'll eat, it's

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Speaker 6: just about everything. So the fire chief was able to

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Speaker 6: dedicate some of the parts adjacent open space next to

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Speaker 6: parcels and.

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Speaker 2: Is able to utilize these goats. So some of.

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Speaker 6: The things that we have to put in places to

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Speaker 6: make sure that they're corralled and that they're monitored. So

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Speaker 6: we want to keep them where we want them. So

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Speaker 6: there are specific zones that we have that is adjacent

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Speaker 6: to the open space and we'll put the goats and

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Speaker 6: pins and let them eat up one hundred percent of

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Speaker 6: that vegetation. They'll do an incredible job at clearing it out.

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Speaker 6: Then we have to monitor that so that when they

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Speaker 6: get to a certain point in time and they're eating that,

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Speaker 6: we can move them and rotate them to the next space.

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Speaker 2: It's been an incredible program for us.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how many goats do you.

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Speaker 6: Have, there are several hundred. This last summer, we brought

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Speaker 6: in three herds at a time, and I understand there's

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Speaker 6: about one hundred and fifty two hundred goats per herd well.

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Speaker 1: I mean I got fascinated because the Smithsonian magazine had

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Speaker 1: run a story that the Reagan Library and simu Ally

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Speaker 1: they had used land clearing goats to eat the flammable

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Speaker 1: brush and it was a big fire there. The goats

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Speaker 1: had in fact created a firebreak and the library was safe.

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Speaker 4: And what's interesting about the goats is that we're actually

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Speaker 4: only able to do them because they were grandfathered in.

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Speaker 5: But the permits now and I think this is under the.

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Speaker 4: California Environmental Quality Act, prevent us from using goats because

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Speaker 4: they eat what the state describes as the high resource

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Speaker 4: habitats or something along those lines. So that's something that

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Speaker 4: I will be working on, is figuring out how we

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Speaker 4: can make it so that we can actually add more goats,

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Speaker 4: because goats are the most cost effective way to do

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Speaker 4: fuel modification.

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Speaker 1: I don't get part of this because Sony was doing

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Speaker 1: some calculations this morning the amount of carbon we're putting

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Speaker 1: in the air with the Los Angeles fire off size

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Speaker 1: virtually everything California has done to produce carbon pollution, and

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Speaker 1: in a sense, if goats would have stopped the fire,

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Speaker 1: I'm for the goats. Maybe that's because I don't quite

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Speaker 1: get the way on which Sacramento thinks, but as it

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Speaker 1: seems to me that it'll be pro go rather than

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Speaker 1: anti got.

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Speaker 4: The environment is what makes Laguna Beach special. We don't

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Speaker 4: want to do anything that will undermine the environment, but

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Speaker 4: I think goats are a way that we can protect

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Speaker 4: our environment and protect public safety because we know, as

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Speaker 4: you said, when you have a fire that does not

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Speaker 4: help the environment in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: What other fire prevention tools do you use in Laguna Beach,

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Speaker 1: in an Orange County.

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Speaker 6: Right here in Laguna Beach, it's unique because we're surrounded

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Speaker 6: by several one hundred acres of open space, and so

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Speaker 6: we look at the edges of our community and where

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Speaker 6: wild land fire is going to be encroaching, and so

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Speaker 6: we try to create that defensible space behind our homes,

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Speaker 6: our residents' homes about against the open space. And then

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Speaker 6: we have created, through permitting processes, the fuel modification zones,

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Speaker 6: and that's where we can go in and remove the vegetation,

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Speaker 6: not like the goats do where they will remove one

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Speaker 6: hundred percent of the vegetation, but through a permitting process

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Speaker 6: that we can thin the vegetation, and we're trying to protect.

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Speaker 2: The native species to California.

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Speaker 6: Where we could only reduce that vegetation to fifty percent,

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Speaker 6: but we're clearing all of the underbrush and the dead vegetation,

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Speaker 6: the annual grasses, and so really what that does is

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Speaker 6: an approaching fire. It's going to hit that gap where

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Speaker 6: the vegetation has been removed, and it's going to take

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Speaker 6: a lot of the energy out of the fire. And

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Speaker 6: that's where we like to hopefully hit that fire with

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Speaker 6: the overhead resources, the helicopters and.

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Speaker 2: The air drops and prevent it from encroaching. Upon the helmes.

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Speaker 1: We want to help people get back into their homes

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Speaker 1: as quickly as possible and as inexpensively as possible. And

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Speaker 1: it seems that means that their whole range of regulations

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Speaker 1: and rules and organizations, all of them basically slowing down

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Speaker 1: and making more difficult the rebuilding process, and that somehow

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Speaker 1: that has to be significant part of what we look

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Speaker 1: at and trying to maximize the speed with which we

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Speaker 1: can get people back into their homes. I mean, am

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Speaker 1: I missing something since I'm not a California.

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Speaker 4: Well absolutely, and so my being on the city council

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Speaker 4: now this year as marriage is a part time job.

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Speaker 4: My full time day job is in real estate development,

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Speaker 4: and I've had projects in the city of LA and

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Speaker 4: the amount of time that it takes to get just

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Speaker 4: like a town home project to prove is ridiculous where

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Speaker 4: you're moving between so many different departments.

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Speaker 3: So you know, the.

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Speaker 4: Residents who lost their homes cannot afford to wait through

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Speaker 4: a one or two year process. They need, you know,

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Speaker 4: a mediate approval where everyone needs to get in the

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Speaker 4: room and get.

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Speaker 3: These approvals quicker.

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Speaker 4: It's also how we're going to ultimately solve the housing

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Speaker 4: supply crisis that we have in California. But I totally

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Speaker 4: agree there's a lot of regulations that are very important,

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Speaker 4: but we need to be as we look at how

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Speaker 4: we can rebuild Los Angeles. It's critical that we don't

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Speaker 4: let bureaucracy and regulations get in the way of people

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Speaker 4: rebuilding their homes because that'll add gas to the fire

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Speaker 4: in many respects.

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Speaker 1: The other thing was the top of I don't frankly

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Speaker 1: understand very well, but that apparently the homeowner's insurance has

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Speaker 1: become a major challenge for those living in high risk areas.

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Speaker 1: Do you see this kind of an issue in Laguna Beach.

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Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely, We're having homeowners who are dealing with significant

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Speaker 4: increases in their rates, and some people are not able

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Speaker 4: to get insurance, so they have to go onto the

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Speaker 4: Fair Plan. Really, the root of that issue goes back

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Speaker 4: to a proposition that the voters of California passed that

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Speaker 4: basically requires that any increase in rates has to be

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Speaker 4: approved somewhere in Sacramento. And so what that's led to

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Speaker 4: is a situation where a lot of insurers are just

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Speaker 4: simply getting out of the state of California. And part

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Speaker 4: of the reason why we have an insurance crisis because

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Speaker 4: the risk is so high. I mean, I saw number

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Speaker 4: fifty six billion dollars plus for the damages here. So

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Speaker 4: in many respects, the amount of risk that people are

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Speaker 4: dealing with by living in California, especially in these high

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Speaker 4: risk areas, has made it so that premiums have to

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Speaker 4: either increase or if they're not able to increase because

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Speaker 4: of the state, then the insurers are going to go

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Speaker 4: out of the state.

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Speaker 3: So I don't have the.

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Speaker 4: Answer, mister speaker, but it's going to be a problem

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Speaker 4: that we're going to continue dealing with because, as you know,

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Speaker 4: you can't get a mortgage without.

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Speaker 5: Insurance, so this really needs to be addressed.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you, as you look forward, do you

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Speaker 1: feel that the innovative things you've done in Laguna Beach

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Speaker 1: are sort of validated by what you've seen up in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles.

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Speaker 4: I think they are validated, but there's really so much

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Speaker 4: more for us to do because when you look at

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Speaker 4: as Chief King was describing earlier, when you have a

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Speaker 4: fire with the winds that we saw in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 4: there's very little.

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Speaker 3: That can be done to mitigate it.

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Speaker 4: So the question is how do we kind of change

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Speaker 4: our playbook and reject the assumptions of what we've been

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Speaker 4: able to do in the past and what fires have

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Speaker 4: been like in the past, and really prepare for a

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Speaker 4: new normal. So even though I think we've been heading

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Speaker 4: in the right direction, there's so much more for us

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Speaker 4: to do, and we're not going to take our foot

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Speaker 4: off again pedal, because as you know, public safety is

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Speaker 4: the most important role of local government.

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Speaker 1: You've also made a point I hadn't really thought about,

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Speaker 1: which is you have to be planning simultaneously for the

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Speaker 1: potential for an earthquake as well as the potential for mudslides,

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Speaker 1: as well as the potential for really big fire. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all three of those have to somehow be in your

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Speaker 1: city plan. Absolutely, isn't that pretty complicated.

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Speaker 4: It's very complicated, and it requires one step at a time.

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Speaker 3: Right now, we have our fire stations, all four of them.

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Speaker 4: We haven't built a new fire station in fifty years,

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Speaker 4: and all four of ours fire stations, if an earthquake

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Speaker 4: happens could come down where finally we're building one, we're

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Speaker 4: about to start building.

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Speaker 3: And so there's so much work to do. And I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of cities.

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Speaker 4: In like we're about to approach our one hundred year

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Speaker 4: anniversary in twenty twenty seven, and a lot of cities

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Speaker 4: like us that are older have not made the proper

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Speaker 4: investments in infrastructure. I think it's going to be a

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Speaker 4: theme that we're seeing across the state of California. So

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Speaker 4: it's easy to not make those investments in infrastructure. No

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Speaker 4: one's going to get mad at you at the time,

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Speaker 4: but it's important that as leaders we make those necessary

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Speaker 4: investments because at the end of the day, they're going

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Speaker 4: to be critical for the public safety threats that we

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Speaker 4: face in the future and the present.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really curious when you think about trying to

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Speaker 1: prevent the huge fires though, such as the one we're

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Speaker 1: living through now. The goat program may really be a

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Speaker 1: major contributor. But what's the relative cost of using goats

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Speaker 1: versus other messas of clearing this underbrush.

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Speaker 4: Well, goats are absolutely a very cost effective program. Our

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Speaker 4: estimate is that per acre, goats cost eight hundred and

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Speaker 4: sixty dollars, whereas hand crews cost four thousand dollars an acre,

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Speaker 4: So it's around twenty percent of the cost of hand crews.

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Speaker 4: It's the most cost effective form of fuel modification that

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Speaker 4: we have at our disposal.

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Speaker 1: Prior to these fires, has the state been increasingly opposed

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Speaker 1: to any kind of clearing of the underbrush?

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Speaker 4: Well, the state has a lot of permits that are

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Speaker 4: required for fuel modification, but going forward, we cannot get

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Speaker 4: new permits for goats. We can only do them for

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Speaker 4: hand crews. The Chief can correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 4: that's correct.

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Speaker 1: So the state basically is creating a fivefold increase in

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Speaker 1: cost to have people rather than goats. As an outsider,

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Speaker 1: I'm not shocked, but it strikes me as not very clever.

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Speaker 1: Mister Mary, I know you've got to run, and I

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Speaker 1: want to thank you given everything you're doing. I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate your taking the time to talk with us.

444
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: Thank you, mister speaker.

445
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 5: It's an honor to be a part of this, So

446
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 5: thank you for including us.

447
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 3: Thanks.

448
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: We've heard a lot, and there's been a lot on

449
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: TV at least about the whole process of whether or

450
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: not Lost Angelus itself was getting the resources that needed

451
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: and to my surprise, I mean, the police chief's been

452
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: pretty blunt about this. Do you have any sense of

453
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: how much underfunded they were and to what degree that

454
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: weaken their ability to stop the fire?

455
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 6: I've heard what everyone else has heard on the news,

456
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 6: and those impacts truly unknown. I know the fire chief

457
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 6: made some pretty strong statements, and it looked like there

458
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 6: was a memo that she had drafted prior to the

459
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 6: onset of these firestorms, and it was addressing the readiness

460
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 6: of some of their aerial fleet, and those are obviously

461
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 6: very very expensive resources and you have to have a

462
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 6: lot of the maintenance and the training hours that go

463
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 6: along with it. She seemed to be addressing that, but

464
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 6: as far as any kind of slowing of the responsiveness

465
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 6: of those resources, that's all yet to be determined.

466
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: I appreciate and again that you've been fortunate in that

467
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: Laguna Beach actually has been seriously concerned and has done

468
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: a lot of the right things, both about fire safety

469
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: but also trying to maintain a really good city.

470
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 6: One of the best benefits is we have a very

471
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 6: very engaged community here. They know that they all live

472
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 6: in a state designated very high fire hazard severity zone.

473
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: Which means that we have the weather.

474
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 6: You know, the climate is such that it's conducive to fires.

475
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot of vegetation.

476
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 6: Here, and then we have those Santa Ana win events

477
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 6: that come seasonally, and you look throughout our community that

478
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 6: people are living in some older wood framed homes. Laguna

479
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 6: Beach is on a hillside. Most of our community has

480
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 6: a great beautiful view of the Pacific Ocean and they

481
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 6: love the vegetation that is around their houses in the hillside.

482
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 6: So it's all very very nice to live here, and

483
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 6: it's an incredible climate, but it's these times of years

484
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 6: where you're reminded of the risk that comes along with it.

485
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 1: A Los Angeles Times reported today that fire officials are

486
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: now being to look for the source of the fars.

487
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: Do you have something like this, How do you go

488
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: back and look for the source of a fire on

489
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: this scale?

490
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 6: The investigative process is a whole different science than fire suppression,

491
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 6: and we have especially trained investigators in our profession. It's

492
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 6: hard to imagine, but the size and the scope of

493
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 6: the devastation that has occurred, you can take it back

494
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 6: to what is a logical point of origin, and that's

495
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 6: with the given weather conditions and the slope the topography,

496
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 6: you can trace this fireback to a corner where it

497
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 6: is probably likely the.

498
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: Point of origin.

499
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 6: These investigators go in and they are looking for any

500
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 6: types of devices, anything that's left behind that might have

501
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 6: indicated that there was an accident there, that there's a

502
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 6: small campfire. Whatever they're looking for is going to be

503
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 6: in a logical place near the point of origin, and

504
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 6: so they mark it off and they treat it as

505
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 6: almost as a crime scene, and until they can prove

506
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 6: that it's not and they secure all the evidence, they

507
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 6: send it to labs to get tested if there is

508
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 6: any evidence, more often than not, they'll be able to

509
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 6: come up with a cause. The most important is doing

510
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 6: those interviews for people that saw the initial line of

511
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,959
Speaker 6: smoke that was coming from an area, that reported the

512
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 6: fire and where was that And I heard indications that

513
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 6: they were looking into a fire that had happened previously

514
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 6: from New Year's Eve and that might have been the area.

515
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 6: So they just take those leads in those reports and

516
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 6: they continue to follow up on them until they can

517
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 6: find that cause.

518
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: If you don't mind my asking the chief, how long

519
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: have you been involved in firefighting?

520
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 6: This is my thirty fourth year in the fire service.

521
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: Well, so, if a young person happens to be listening

522
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: to this podcast, would you encourage them to consider being

523
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: a firefighter?

524
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 6: Oh, it's the best profession in the world.

525
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: Why is that?

526
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 6: When I was younger, it was about the physical challenges

527
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 6: that were there and you get to be outdoors and

528
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 6: it's not going to be confined in an office. That

529
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 6: was first active to me. But as I jumped into

530
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 6: the career, you start realizing that the cliche of I

531
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 6: like to help people, well that's real.

532
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: It's real.

533
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 6: You get to on a daily basis respond out of

534
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,239
Speaker 6: a fire station and you make those human connections, and

535
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 6: you really do get to see the difference that you

536
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 6: make in people's lives, There's no question about it. And

537
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 6: as trained EMTs and paramedics, especially along the lines of

538
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 6: just having the experience and seeing more and more, you

539
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 6: realize the value and.

540
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: The difference that you can make in this profession. To

541
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 2: that end, people.

542
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 6: Really do appreciate the firefighters, So you couldn't think of

543
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 6: a better profession where people are incredibly grateful to have

544
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 6: the fire service and the profession around.

545
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: You know, I want to thank you for joining me.

546
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: I realize how really busy all of you are right now,

547
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: but you're helping us better understand the challenges of Los

548
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: Angeles and the firefighters who are facing to really try

549
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: to bring these wildfares under control. Our thoughts and prayers

550
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: are with those firefighters, with the first responders, and with

551
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: all the people who are really in danger of losing

552
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: their homes and losing everything they've collected their whole life.

553
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: So around the country, I think we're all thinking about

554
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: and praying for the Angelino's been through such a terrible

555
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: and traumatic thing, and you really were a help coming

556
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 1: on and talking to us.

557
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 6: Well, it's been an absolute automous or speaker to not

558
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 6: only meet you, but to share some of the great

559
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 6: stories of what the firefighters in the state of California

560
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 6: and across the country are going through right now in

561
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 6: Los Angeles.

562
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: So thank you for this opportunity.

563
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guests, Mayor Alex Renaggi and Fire

564
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: Chief Nico King from the city of Laguna Beach, California.

565
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 1: You can learn more about the California wildfires on our

566
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. New World is produced

567
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: by Gager three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is

568
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: Guernsey Slow. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for

569
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to

570
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: the team at Gingrish three sixty. If you've been enjoying

571
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: New World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and

572
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a

573
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now,

574
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: listeners of newt World consign up for my three freeweekly

575
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: columns at gingrichsthree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingrich.

576
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: This is neutral,