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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry.

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Speaker 1: Several times in previous episodes we have talked about the

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Speaker 1: role of Quakers, who are also called Friends in the

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Speaker 1: abolition of slavery. We haven't, though, really talked about the

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Speaker 1: Religious Society of Friends before it became such a visible

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Speaker 1: part in the movement for abolition. Benjamin Leigh was a

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Speaker 1: Quaker and our radical abolitionist who lived in this period

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Speaker 1: between when the Religious Society of Friends started and when

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Speaker 1: it started formally banning slave ownership among its members. During

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Speaker 1: that time, there were actually a lot of Quaker slave owners,

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Speaker 1: especially among the more wealthy and more powerful members, and

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Speaker 1: Lay was incredibly outspoken about this issue in an incredibly

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Speaker 1: visible and memorable way. In the words of Robert's Vox,

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Speaker 1: who wrote a brief biography of Late in the nineteenth century, quote,

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Speaker 1: if the comparison be admissible, he appeared rather like the comet,

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Speaker 1: which threatens, in its irregular course the destruction of the

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Speaker 1: world's near which it passes. Then as one of those

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Speaker 1: tranquil orbs which hold their accustomed place and dispensed their

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Speaker 1: light in the harmonious order of heaven. So because of

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Speaker 1: this comet like behavior and this advocacy, Benjamin Lay was

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Speaker 1: disowned from multiple Quaker meetings. He's been described as the

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Speaker 1: most frequently disowned Quaker of his time. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk more about what that means and how that happened

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Speaker 1: in a bit, and this is who we are talking

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Speaker 1: about today. I like that there's a superlative of most

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Speaker 1: disowned Quake. Yes, like who's number two. He was also

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Speaker 1: the last Quaker known to be disowned for advocating against

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Speaker 1: slavery and for the abolition of slavery. So he was

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Speaker 1: not the only person to be disowned, but he was

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Speaker 1: disowned a lot the most last owned for this reason.

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Lay was born in Essex County, England on April two.

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Speaker 1: His parents, William and Prudence Ley, were of course Quakers,

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Speaker 1: as were his grandparents, and Benjamin's father had a small farm,

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Speaker 1: but his family did not have a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: so Benjamin didn't really have much of a formal education.

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Speaker 1: He did a lot of self study later in his life,

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Speaker 1: though he liked to call himself just a just a poor,

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Speaker 1: illiterate sailor, but eventually he was very widely and well read,

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Speaker 1: and when he was in his teens, Benjamin went to

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Speaker 1: live on his brother's farm, where he worked as a shepherd.

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Speaker 1: This is something he seems to have really dearly loved,

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Speaker 1: but his time as a shepherd was temporary. Eventually he

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Speaker 1: was apprenticed to a glovemaker, and that was something he

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Speaker 1: did not enjoy at all, So when he was about

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Speaker 1: twenty one years old, he left and he went to

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Speaker 1: London to become a sailor instead, having made some gloves

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Speaker 1: that can understand if it's not for you, it's really

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Speaker 1: not free. He did not like it one bit. This

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Speaker 1: was an interesting choice for him to have made this

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Speaker 1: move to become a sailor. He was expected to inherit

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Speaker 1: a family farm and he was giving that up by

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Speaker 1: becoming a sailor instead. He also had caposis, or an

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Speaker 1: excessive front to back curvature of the spine, as well

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Speaker 1: as some form of dwarfism, and this would have made

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Speaker 1: some of the work on a ship farm or challenging

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Speaker 1: for him, but it also would have allowed him to

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Speaker 1: maneuver into tight spaces and through the rigging in the

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Speaker 1: ways that larger men really couldn't. Lay was a sailor

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Speaker 1: for about twelve years, and during that time when he

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Speaker 1: wasn't at sea, he usually lived in London. He also

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Speaker 1: spent some time in the Mediterranean and the Middle East,

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Speaker 1: visiting various sites that had been mentioned in the Bible. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: we don't have a whole lot of detail about these

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Speaker 1: years at sea, but it is where Lay started learning

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Speaker 1: about the horrors of the Transatlantic slave trade. He heard

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Speaker 1: these stories from men who had either worked on slave

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Speaker 1: ships themselves or had heard about it from other sailors.

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Speaker 1: At some point during these years, Lay met Sarah Smith

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Speaker 1: of Deptford, England. Sarah had become a Quaker in her youth,

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Speaker 1: and by seventeen twelve she was an approved minister. Sarah's

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Speaker 1: late father had been a plasterer, and if her mother

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Speaker 1: was still living when she and Benjamin met, she had

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Speaker 1: died by the time that they married. Like Benjamin, Sarah

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Speaker 1: had both kiphosis and Dwarfism, and in their life together

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Speaker 1: people sometimes commented on how much they resembled each other.

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Speaker 1: Benjamin himself described them as quote being pretty much alike

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Speaker 1: in stature and other ways. In seventeen sixteen, when he

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Speaker 1: was thirty four and she was four or five years older,

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Speaker 1: Benjamin started trying to get the necessary permissions to marry Sarah,

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Speaker 1: but this presented a problem. In order to marry within

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Speaker 1: the Religious Society of Friends, you had to be a

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Speaker 1: member in good standing. But Benjamin had made some waves

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Speaker 1: in his home congregation in London, which was Devonshire House

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Speaker 1: Monthly Meeting. When the Quaker movement was very first evolving

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Speaker 1: in Britain in the mid sixteen hundreds, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the time it was really confrontational. One of the movement's

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Speaker 1: core beliefs was that each person could have a direct

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Speaker 1: relationship with God, and in terms of the movements ideals,

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Speaker 1: it didn't have any sort of hierarchy. Early Quakers also

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Speaker 1: spoke out against established churches and their leaders, including during services,

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Speaker 1: but by the time Benjamin Lake came along, the Religious

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Speaker 1: Society of Friends had become much more conservative. Speaking out

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Speaker 1: against ministers and elders and weighty friends, which is a

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Speaker 1: term for influential Quakers, was just not done. Benjamin did it,

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Speaker 1: though we don't know what exactly he had been criticizing

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Speaker 1: in Devonshire. He had a particular dislike for vanity, pride,

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Speaker 1: and covetousness, and he also didn't like preaching that seemed

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Speaker 1: like the minister's own words rather than the word of God.

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Speaker 1: Based on later incidents that were more well documented, it

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Speaker 1: could have been any number of things, but whatever it was,

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Speaker 1: he was in enough trouble over it that he did

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Speaker 1: not go directly to Devonshire House monthly meeting to ask

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Speaker 1: for the certificate that he needed to marry his beloved. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he worked on a ship that crossed the Atlantic Ocean,

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Speaker 1: and in Salem, Massachusetts, he went to the local Quaker

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Speaker 1: meeting house there and said that he wanted to marry

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Speaker 1: Sarah Smith of Deptford. In seventeen seventeen, the Salem Congregation

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Speaker 1: wrote to Devonshire House. After some discussion, Devonshire House wrote

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Speaker 1: back that Benjamin was quote free and clear from all

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Speaker 1: persons here relating to marriage, and also free and clear

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Speaker 1: of debts so far as we know. But their letter

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Speaker 1: went on to say that they thought Benjamin was quote

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Speaker 1: convinced of the truth, but for want of keeping low

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Speaker 1: and humble in his mind, hath by an indiscreet zeal

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Speaker 1: been too forward to appear in our public meetings to

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Speaker 1: the uneasiness of friends like, he's not in trouble, but

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Speaker 1: he is a sas pants. Yeah, and it's possible that

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Speaker 1: he may have been criticizing people who who were slave

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Speaker 1: owners at this point. That seems to have come along

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Speaker 1: much later into his line of thoughts. So I think

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Speaker 1: this was more like, if he didn't like your face,

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Speaker 1: do you would tell you that he didn't like your face,

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Speaker 1: if he didn't like your preaching, Same deal. He's an

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Speaker 1: upstart at heart. Once he got back to England with

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Speaker 1: that somewhat reluctant approval, Benjamin continued to criticize ministers and

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Speaker 1: others at Devonshire House and at other Quaker meetings in

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Speaker 1: and around London, where he also worshiped. He roused enough rabble.

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Speaker 1: The Devonshire House refused to give him the formal certificate

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Speaker 1: that he needed for marriage. He appealed their refusal to

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Speaker 1: the London Quarterly Meeting, which investigated the situation and said

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Speaker 1: that while it didn't approve of his behavior, it also

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Speaker 1: did not approve of Devonshire House withholding his certificate. So

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Speaker 1: although Devonshire House Monthly Meeting did issue the certificate, it

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Speaker 1: also ultimately disowned Benjamin it It said something to the

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Speaker 1: effect that he could it couldn't consider him part of

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Speaker 1: their number. That meant that he was allowed to still

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Speaker 1: worship there, but he wasn't considered a member in good standing,

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Speaker 1: and he wasn't allowed to take part in business meetings.

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Speaker 1: Benjamin and Sarah did finally marry in Deptford on July tenth,

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Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen. They left London shortly thereafter and moved to Barbados,

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Speaker 1: which was also home to a Quaker community. And we're

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Speaker 1: going to get into their time there after. We first

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Speaker 1: paused for a little sponsor break. When Benjamin and Sarah

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Speaker 1: Lay got to Barbados, Benjamin established himself as a merchant

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Speaker 1: with a small shop that was stocked with provisions that

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Speaker 1: he'd bought before leaving England. Before long, they experienced a

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Speaker 1: series of small thefts from this store, and if Benjamin

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Speaker 1: was able to catch the perpetrator, he had punished them

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Speaker 1: with a lash, which was a pretty common punishment for

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Speaker 1: theft at the time. But soon Lay realized that the

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Speaker 1: enslaved people who were stealing from his store were driven

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Speaker 1: to it by absolutely desperate circumstances. They were either stealing

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Speaker 1: food because they were starving, or they were stealing items

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Speaker 1: that they could sell or trade for food. So upon

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Speaker 1: this revelation, Benjamin was full of remorse for what he

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Speaker 1: had done, and he and Sarah set up an informal

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Speaker 1: ministry for the enslaved people of Barbados. They fed as

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Speaker 1: many as they could with what they had, although it

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Speaker 1: was often spoiled in the Caribbean heat, and they established

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Speaker 1: a Sunday school where Benjamin both taught and counseled enslaved

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Speaker 1: people and listened to them as they talked about their

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Speaker 1: own lives and experiences. So by listening to the words

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Speaker 1: of the people around them and by their own observations,

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Speaker 1: the Lays quickly learned that conditions in Barbados were really horrific.

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Speaker 1: They repeatedly witnessed people collapsing from exhaustion and overwork. One

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Speaker 1: enslaved man that Benjamin knew, took his own life rather

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Speaker 1: than continuing to be subjected to regular beatings. At one point,

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Speaker 1: Sarah was going to visit another Quaker who was living nearby,

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Speaker 1: and on our way there she found him man hanging

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Speaker 1: in Benjamin's words quote stark, naked, trembling and shivering with

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Speaker 1: such a flood of blood under him, that's so surprised

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Speaker 1: the little woman she could scarce contain. So when Sarah

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Speaker 1: got to the house the people she was visiting, she

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Speaker 1: asked them what was going on, and they told her

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Speaker 1: that this man was being punished for quote absconding a

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Speaker 1: day or two. This experience in Barbados influence not only

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Lay's views on slavery, but also his views on

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Speaker 1: Africans and people of African descent in general. A lot

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Speaker 1: of the other white abolitionists that we have talked about

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Speaker 1: on the show argued that slavery was immoral, but they

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Speaker 1: were also racist. But Lay really believed that all people

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Speaker 1: were equal, later writing, for example, quote the many hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands that are now in slavery, were they at

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Speaker 1: liberty as we are, had the same education, learning conversation books,

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Speaker 1: sweet communion, and our religious assemblies. I believe many of

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Speaker 1: them would exceed many of their tyrant masters in pie.

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Speaker 1: The virtue and godliness and their bright genius which I

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Speaker 1: know they have would be enlivened, for I have conversed

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Speaker 1: with many of them. For liberty is life and slavery

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Speaker 1: is death. One of the other things that gets pointed

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Speaker 1: out about his writing a lot is that there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of abolitionists that still talked about Africans and

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Speaker 1: people of African descent as savages, and he reserved that

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Speaker 1: kind of language for the people who owned slaves. He

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Speaker 1: never used that sort of language about people who were

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Speaker 1: enslaved or people who were of African descent. So Sarah

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Speaker 1: and Benjamin only stayed in Barbados for about a year

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Speaker 1: and a half. Their work with the enslaved population really,

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Speaker 1: of course, drew the ire of the slave owning community.

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Speaker 1: They faced harassment and threats over it. Sarah was also

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Speaker 1: afraid that if they stayed there they would eventually become

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Speaker 1: desensitized to what they were seeing, So in seventeen twenty

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Speaker 1: they went back to London, where Benjamin seems to have

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Speaker 1: re established his relationship with the Devonshire House Monthly meeting.

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Speaker 1: But soon Benjamin was once again speaking out against other Quakers.

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Speaker 1: In September seventeen twenty, a complaint was recorded that he

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Speaker 1: had disturbed Zachary Rouse in his public testimony and also

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Speaker 1: had called him a drunkard and a sinner. After some

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Speaker 1: back and forth, a man named Joseph Norris brought Benjamin

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Speaker 1: a notice from a meeting about his misbehavior, and Benjamin

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Speaker 1: through that notice out the window. He was disowned for

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Speaker 1: a second time, and then he and Sarah moved to Colchester,

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Speaker 1: which is northeast of London. And Colchester Benjamin had a long,

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Speaker 1: confusing and frankly pretty petty seeming dispute with the Colchester

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Speaker 1: Two Weeks Meeting. This dispute went on for years, with

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Speaker 1: Benjamin criticizing people and then the meeting demanding that he apologized,

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Speaker 1: and then he would double down or refuse to apologize

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Speaker 1: or give kind of a non apology. Sometimes it seems

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Speaker 1: as though Sarah tried to smooth things over here, especially

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Speaker 1: at various times she was preparing to travel without him

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Speaker 1: as a minister and who be gone for a long time.

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Speaker 1: She was concerned about his being isolated from his religious

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Speaker 1: community while she was gone. The Colchester two Weeks Meeting

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Speaker 1: wanted to disown Benjamin but couldn't because he was still

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Speaker 1: disowned from Devonshire House Monthly Meeting. He'd never formally become

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Speaker 1: a member of Colchester Two Weeks Meeting, and then Benjamin

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Speaker 1: and Sarah started attending a different Colchester meeting, the Colchester

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Speaker 1: Monthly Meeting, which added another layer of strife thanks to

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Speaker 1: an apparent power struggle between those two different Colchester meetings.

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Speaker 1: In the middle of all this dispute, Benjamin and Sarah

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Speaker 1: disappear from the record for about three years. It's possible

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Speaker 1: that they moved somewhere else and became part of a

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Speaker 1: congregation where a Benjamin's behavior didn't draw any of this

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Speaker 1: kind of notice, or he might have gone traveling her

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Speaker 1: with her while she worked as a minister. Regardless, in

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Speaker 1: seventeen twenty nine, they were back in Colchester trying to

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Speaker 1: make arrangements to immigrate to Pennsylvania. The colony of Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: had been founded by William Penn in sixteen eighty one

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Speaker 1: in part to be a home for Quakers who were

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Speaker 1: facing violence and persecution in Europe. He called it his

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Speaker 1: Holy Experiment, and he wanted it to follow Quaker ideals.

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Speaker 1: Penn wanted fair treatment of the native people, no military,

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Speaker 1: and a government that ran on principles of freedom, including

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Speaker 1: religious liberty, access to education, and universal suffrage for men.

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Speaker 1: So this was an obvious place for the Lays to

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Speaker 1: want to move, but once again to immigrate the Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: they meeted a certificate from a Quaker meeting in England.

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Speaker 1: Colchester Monthly Meeting, maybe motivated by the idea of Benjamin

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Speaker 1: Lay living somewhere else, agreed to provide the certificate if

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Speaker 1: Benjamin made amends with Devonshire House, which he did on

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Speaker 1: November three, seventeen thirty one. Devonshire House sent a letter

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Speaker 1: to Colchester Monthly Meeting clearing Benjamin of wrongdoing. Colchester Monthly

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Speaker 1: Meeting received Benjamin as a member and issued the certificate

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Speaker 1: for him to move to Pennsylvania. Mean while the cultures

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Speaker 1: are two weeks meetings still very mad at him wrote

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Speaker 1: letters ahead of him, warning Quakers in Pennsylvania about what

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Speaker 1: they were in for. I'm wildly abused by all of

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Speaker 1: the letters and the like. It's it's very ninth grade drama.

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Speaker 1: And so what it is? Do you like? Benjamin? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Box notebox um. When the Lays got to Philadelphia, Benjamin

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Speaker 1: opened a bookshop specializing in books by Quakers, as well

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Speaker 1: as psalters, Bibles, and classical works of literature. But he

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Speaker 1: and Sarah were dismayed to discover that, in spite of

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Speaker 1: everything that they had imagined about Penn's Holy Experiment and

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Speaker 1: its dedication to Quaker ideals, Slavery was still practiced in

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Speaker 1: the colony. About ten percent of the population of Philadelphia

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Speaker 1: was enslaved, and about half the membership of the Philadelphia

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Speaker 1: Monthly Meeting owned slaves. Among the wealthiest and most powerful

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Speaker 1: friends in the congregation, that number was even higher. Rather

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Speaker 1: than advocating the abolition of slavery, the religious Society of

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Speaker 1: Friends was more likely to advocate treating enslaved people humanely

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Speaker 1: or freeing people after a certain number of years, rather

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Speaker 1: than enslaving them and all their descendants for life. Benjamin

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00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 1: started criticizing slavery and slave owners right away. He also

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00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 1: met other abolitionists, including fellow Quaker Ralph Sandiford, who by

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Speaker 1: that point was in very poor physical and mental health,

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Speaker 1: in part due to being harassed by other Quakers over

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Speaker 1: his abolitionist beliefs, which had gone on for years. Sandofford

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Speaker 1: died in seventeen thirty three, so when Leigh met him

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Speaker 1: it was towards the end of his life. After a

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00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 1: couple of years of this, Benjamin and Sarah decided to

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Speaker 1: move to Abington, about fifteen miles north of Philadelphia, and

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Speaker 1: they may have chosen this location because Susannah Morris lived there.

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Speaker 1: She and Sarah were friends and they had traveled together

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Speaker 1: as ministers, including surviving a shipwreck together. But when the

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00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 1: Lace tried to get their certificate from Philadelphia so they

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00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: could join a meeting in Abington, Robert Jordan Jr. Objected,

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Speaker 1: arguing that because of all of the conflict back in England,

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00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,479
Speaker 1: Benjamin's membership in Philadelphia was not authorized in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Not long after they moved to Abington, Sarah Lay died

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Speaker 1: at the age of about fifty eight. Her cause of

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00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 1: death is unknown, it does seem to have been unexpected

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00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 1: and pretty sudden. Benjamin also seems to have thought that

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Speaker 1: Jordan's treatment of the two of them contributed to it,

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Speaker 1: maybe by causing them both a lot of stress. A

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Speaker 1: notice from the Abington Monthly Meeting mentioned Sarah's quote gift

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Speaker 1: of ministry and her travels through England, Scotland and Ireland

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00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,400
Speaker 1: and some parts of the continent as a minister. It's

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00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 1: very likely that Sarah had been a tempering influence in

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00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,119
Speaker 1: Benjamin's life, not just smoothing things over with the various

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00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 1: Quaker meetings that they were part of, but also in

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00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,800
Speaker 1: reigning in his more radical impulses, and without her, he

305
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 1: dedicated himself to aggressively speaking out against slavery. And we're

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00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:06,720
Speaker 1: going to get to that after we have another sponsor break.

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Speaker 1: Some of the chronology of Benjamin lays life is a

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00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,919
Speaker 1: little bit fuzzy, so it's possible that some of the

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Speaker 1: things we're about to talk about happened before his wife died.

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Speaker 1: Even if that's the case, though, after Sarah's death, Benjamin

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Speaker 1: became known as an increasingly eccentric figure. He was heavily

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Speaker 1: influenced by the Cynic philosophers, particularly Diogenes. If you need

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00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 1: a refresher on that, we just reran our episode on

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00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: him as a Saturday classic. But in general, the Cynics

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00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 1: were in favor of living with nature, abandoning social conventions,

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Speaker 1: and living in an ascetic, minimal existence. Lay started living

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Speaker 1: in a cave in Abington, which was spacious enough that

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00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 1: he had an extensive library there. It was also big

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Speaker 1: enough for a spinning wheel, which he used to spin flax.

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Speaker 1: He made all of his own clothes from undyed to

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Speaker 1: linen because he didn't want to wear any material that

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Speaker 1: harmed animal or was connected to slavery. He would use

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Speaker 1: leather from animals that had died naturally, but he would

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00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: not use it from ones that had been slaughtered or hunted.

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00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 1: Lay had also become a strict vegetarian, although he did

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Speaker 1: drink milk and he ate honey that was made by

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Speaker 1: bees that he raised himself, taking care not the harmony

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Speaker 1: of them when he harvested it. He didn't drink tea

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Speaker 1: because of the abuses and the tea industry in Asia,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't eat sugar because it was grown, harvested,

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Speaker 1: and processed by enslaved Africans. He also went everywhere on

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Speaker 1: foot because he didn't want to exploit the labor of horses.

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Speaker 1: He started publicly condemning slave owners, especially Quaker slave owners,

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Speaker 1: including during meetings, and he became increasingly dramatic in his protests.

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Speaker 1: After interrupting someone in a meeting, he was forcibly carried

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Speaker 1: out into the rain, and he lay in the mud

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00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: so that the whole congregation had to step over him

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Speaker 1: as they left. On another occasion, he stood outside the

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Speaker 1: meeting house in the snow with one boot off and

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00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 1: the leg of his pants rolled up. When people asked

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00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 1: what he was doing, or said that he should go

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00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 1: inside because he might get sick. He answered, quote, you

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00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: pretend compassion for me, but you do not feel for

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00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 1: the poor slaves in the field who go all winter

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00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: half clad. To protest the use of slave labor in

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Speaker 1: the tobacco industry and tobacco's unwholesome effects on health, Ley

347
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 1: took three pipes to an annual Quaker meeting and he

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00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: smashed each of them, one among the ministers, one among

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Speaker 1: the women, and one among the men, a lot of

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00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 1: Quaker congregations at that point separated by gender. He did

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00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: a similar demonstration against the tea industry, protesting the conditions

352
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: in the tea and sugar industries and the luxury that

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00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: was associated with tea, by smashing his late wife's tea

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00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 1: set with a hammer in a public square. Lay also

355
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 1: tried to convince some neighbors to free a young girl

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00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: that they were enslaving as a household servant. He had

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00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: also made friends with their child. In some accounts this

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00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: was a son, and in others it's a daughter. One

359
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: day he convinced this child to come stay with him

360
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: for the afternoon, and when he saw the parents that evening,

361
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 1: distraught over their missing child, he said, quote, your child

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00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: is safe in my house. And now you may conceive

363
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,479
Speaker 1: of the sorrow you inflict upon the parents of the

364
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Speaker 1: Negro girl you hold in slavery, for she was torn

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00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 1: from them by avarice. At one point, Lay traveled to

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia to visit another Quaker family. He arrived as they

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00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: were having breakfast, and he asked them whether the person

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Speaker 1: who was serving their meal was enslaved. When they answered

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00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 1: that yes, he was, Lay said, quote, then I will

370
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: not share with thee in the fruits of thy unrighteousness.

371
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: And he left. There's so many points in his story

372
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: where I want to yell right on, Benjamin Lay is

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00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: putting the rest of us to shame completely. U Lay's

374
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: most famous anti slavery demonstration took place at the Philadelphia

375
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Speaker 1: Yearly Meeting on September ninety eight. This was an annual

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Speaker 1: meeting of all the Philadelphia area Quaker meetings held in Burlington,

377
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Lay walked about twenty miles to get there,

378
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: wearing a military uniform with a sword belted to his

379
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: hip under an overcoat. He also carried a hollowed out

380
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: book in which was concealed a bladder filled with bright

381
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: red pokeberry juice. During this meeting, he stood up and said, quote, Oh,

382
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: all you Negro masters, who are contentedly holding your fellow

383
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: creatures in a state of slavery during life, well knowing

384
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: the cruel sufferings those innocent captives undergo in their state

385
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: of bondage, both in these North American colonies and in

386
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: the West India Islands, you must know they are not

387
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: made slaves by any direct law, but are held by

388
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 1: an arbitrary and self interested custom in which you participate.

389
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: And especially you who professed to do unto all men

390
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 1: as you would they should do unto you. And yet,

391
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: in direct opposition to every principle of reason, humanity, and religion,

392
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: you were forcibly retaining your fellow men from one generation

393
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: to another a state of unconditional servitude. You might as

394
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: well throw off the plain coat as I do. He

395
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 1: unbuttoned the one button of his coat and let it

396
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: fall on the ground, and then went on, quote, it

397
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: would be as justifiable in the sight of the Almighty,

398
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: who beholds and respects all nations and colors of men

399
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: with an equal regard, if you should thrust a sword

400
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 1: through their hearts as I do. Through this book. In

401
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: some accounts He also said, thus shall God shed the

402
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: blood of those persons who enslaved their fellow creatures. So

403
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: then he drew the sword, stabbed it through the book

404
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: and the bladder that was concealed inside of it, let

405
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 1: the fake blood drip out of it, and flung drops

406
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: of it all over the slave owners who were around him.

407
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: He was like an early performance artist. I kind of

408
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: love it. Uh. These demonstrations unsurprisingly angered the slave owning

409
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 1: members of the Quaker community. They were personally offended, and

410
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: his aggressive confrontations ran against the Quaker values of peace

411
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: and unity. In that pokeberry juice demonstration, Lay had also

412
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 1: walked into a Pacifist congregation wearing a military uniform and

413
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: carrying a weapon. On top of all that, in seventeen

414
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: thirty eight, Lay also published a book without the authorization

415
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: of the church's overseers of the press, who were supposed

416
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: to approve all published material by Quakers. This book was

417
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: called and just Buckle Up, Because this is I think

418
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: the longest title we've ever read. All slave keepers that

419
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 1: keep the innocent in bondage apost dates pretending to lay

420
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: claim to the pure and holy Christian religion of what

421
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: congregations soever, but especially in their ministers, by whose examples

422
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: the filthy leprosy and apostasy is spread far and near.

423
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 1: It is a notorious sin which many of the true

424
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: friends of Christ and his pure truth, called Quakers, has

425
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: been for many years and still are concerned to write

426
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: and bear testimony against, as a practice so gross and

427
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: hurtful to religion and destructive to government beyond what we're

428
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: it's can set forth or can be declared of by

429
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: men or angels, and yet lived by ministers and magistrates.

430
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: In America, the leaders of the people caused them to

431
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: air written for a general service by him that truly

432
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: and sincerely desires the present and eternal welfare and happiness

433
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: of all mankind, all the world over, of all colors

434
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: and nations as his own soul. Benjamin Lay. That was

435
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: the title name at the end, Pussy. Most historians referencing

436
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: this work just call it all slave keepers that keep

437
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: the innocent and bondage apostates, or even just all slave

438
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: keepers dot dot dot apostates. You know you can't blame

439
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: anyone for that abbrevious No, you really can't. This book

440
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: was really scathing in its discussion of slavery and of

441
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: slave owners, especially those who claim to be people of faith.

442
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: Here is a passage quote, Now, dear friends, behold a

443
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: mystery these ministers that be slave keepers, and are in

444
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: such very great repute, Such eminent preachers, given to hospitality,

445
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: charitable to the poor, loving to their neighbors, just in

446
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: their dealings, temperate in their lives, visiting of the sick,

447
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: sympathizing with the afflicted embody or mind, very religious, seemingly

448
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: an extraordinary devout and demure, and in short, strictly exact

449
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: in all their decorums except slave keeping. These these be

450
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: the men and the women too for the devil's purpose,

451
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: and are the choicest treasure the devil can or has

452
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: to bring out of his lazaretto to establish slave keeping.

453
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: By these satan works wonders many ways. So even if

454
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: you are that great of a person, you are owning slaves,

455
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: you are doing the devil's work. Per Benjamin Lay, this

456
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: book wasn't just about slavery. There were also snippets from

457
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: Lay's own life, kind of little autobiographical sketches, including references

458
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: to that whole dispute with cultister twice weekly meeting. There

459
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: are also selections from other works that he found meaningful

460
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: in some way, including a couple of chapters of the

461
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: Book of Revelation along with Lay's commentary and a chunk

462
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: of John Milton's Paradise Lost. Basically, it doesn't read as

463
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: though Lay sat down intending to write a book. It's

464
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: more like he wrote things from time to time as

465
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: different ideas came into his mind, without really a cohesive

466
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: through line through all of it. The writing style you

467
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: might conclude based on the title is also pretty rambling,

468
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: even when it's not jumping from one topic to another.

469
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: Lay's friend Benjamin Franklin, published the book. Although Franklin left

470
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: his name off the title page in the spot where

471
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: the publisher's name would normally go. Franklin knew that Ley

472
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: was not approved to have it published, and he knew

473
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: that it was kind of a disjointed miss Franklin had

474
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: even pointed that out to Ley, who told him that

475
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: it didn't matter and to print it in whatever order

476
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: that he thought best. In the words of the third

477
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: Benjamin in this paragraph, physician and educator Benjamin Rush quote,

478
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: even the address and skill of Dr Franklin were not

479
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: sufficient to connect its different parts together. So as to

480
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: render it an agreeable or useful work. As a side note,

481
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: although Benjamin Lay often refused to associate with slave owners

482
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 1: in any way, he seems to have made an exception

483
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: for Benjamin Franklin. Franklin later did become part of the

484
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: movement for abolition, but when he was working on Lay's book,

485
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: he was also enslaving at least two people. Franklin's own

486
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: views on slavery at the time may have been another

487
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: reason why he left his name off of the book,

488
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: although he did print other abolitionist tracks. Franklin's views may

489
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: have also influenced the visual representations of Benjamin Lay that

490
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: we have today. Most of them come from a portrait

491
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: that was done by William Williams that was commissioned for

492
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin by his wife Deborah. This is probably done

493
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: like not with Benjamin Lay sitting for a portrait doesn't

494
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: seem like a thing he ever would have done. Was

495
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: probably William Williams was probably familiar with Benjamin Lay from

496
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: having seen him around town, but this portrait has no

497
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: indication of Lay's work as as an abolitionist. Instead, it

498
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: shows Lay holding a book labeled try On on Happiness,

499
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: which was a reference to the Way to Health, Long

500
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: Life and Happiness, or a Discourse on Temperance and the

501
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: Particular Nature of all Things Requisite for the Life of

502
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: Man by Thomas Tryon. We do know that Benjamin Lay

503
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: loved this book and apparently carried it with him a

504
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: lot of the time, but this was not nearly as

505
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: big of a part of his life as his abolitionist work.

506
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: After the poke Berry demonstration and the publication of the book,

507
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Monthly Meeting disowned Benjamin Lay on September seven,

508
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: saying that the certificate that he had presented from Colchester

509
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: when joining the church had been quote irregularly maintained that

510
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: his conduct was disorderly, and that quote we have therefore

511
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: or thought fit to give public notice that we do

512
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: not esteem the said Benjamin Lay to be a member

513
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: of our religious community, but a disorderly and obstinate person,

514
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: one who slights the advice of friends, imposes on them

515
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: in his preaching, that he disregards the peace of the church.

516
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: The Abington Monthly Meeting disowned Lay as well, even though

517
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: he was not actually a member. There was like a

518
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: just to be safe, prophylactic disowning. I guess. Yet the

519
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Yearly Meeting also took out advertisements denouncing Lay's book,

520
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: saying it quote contains gross abuses, not only against some

521
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: of their members in particular, but against the whole society.

522
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: Even after being disowned from these congregations, Lay continued to

523
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: attend services and to speak and write against slavery at

524
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: every opportunity, and he did that for the rest of

525
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: his life. He spoke out on other issues as well,

526
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: including denouncing the death penalty. He also visited Quaker schools

527
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: and brought books with him to give out his prizes.

528
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: He also gave money charitably, although while he gave money

529
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: to poor people who needed it, he criticized beggars who

530
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: he thought were able to work. In seventeen fifty eight,

531
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: as Benjamin Lay's health was declining, a friend visited him

532
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: and told him that the Philadelphia Annual Meeting had decided

533
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: to start disowning members who were part of the slave trade.

534
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: Lay answered his friend that he could now die at peace.

535
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: He did die on February third, seventeen fifty nine, at

536
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: the age of seventy seven. Almost twenty years later, in

537
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: seventeen seventy six, the Philadelphia annual meeting bands slave ownership

538
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: among its members, and then other annual meetings followed from there.

539
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: Because he had made some money during his lifetime but

540
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: had spent almost nothing in his last years, Benjamin lay

541
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: left behind in a state that was divided up among

542
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: family members and charitable institutions, along with forty pounds to

543
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: the Society of Friends at Abington for the care of

544
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: poor children in the congregation. He was buried in an

545
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: unmarked grave at the Abington Burial Ground, although the registry

546
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: there did not list him as a member. He had

547
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: asked a friend to arrange for his body to be

548
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: cremated and his ashes thrown into the sea, but creation

549
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: was not really practiced among Quakers at that point, and

550
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: his friend refused. For a few decades after his death,

551
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: Benjamin Lake continued to be well known, especially in the

552
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: area where he lived. In the words of Benjamin Rush

553
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, these were written in seventeen quote. There

554
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: was a time when this celebrated Christian philosopher was familiar

555
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: to every man, woman, and to nearly every child in Pennsylvania.

556
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: Lay was particularly remembered among abolitionists, but eventually he seemed

557
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: to just disappear from history, and the historians who did

558
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: mention him often dismissed him as kind of an eccentric

559
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: crank rather than as somebody who paved the way for

560
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: later abolitionists. The erasure was widespread enough that when Dave Wormling,

561
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: a caretaker at Abington Meeting House, found an etching of

562
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: Lay in the nineteen nineties, he didn't know who it was,

563
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: neither did any of the older members Wormling asked about it.

564
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: It remained a mystery until Marcus Rhdeicker visited the meeting

565
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: house in while researching his book The Fearless Benjamin Lay,

566
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: the Quaker dwarf who became the first revolutionary abolitionist. That

567
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: book was one of the sources for this episode. It

568
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: is very good and also not portularly long, if folks

569
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: are interested in picking it up. Rhedeicker's work brought new

570
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: attention to Benjamin Lay's life and work, and based on

571
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: his research, Hdeker also encouraged Quaker congregations to revisit those

572
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: past decisions to disown him. Eventually, the four congregations that

573
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: had disowned Lay or their successors issued statements about it, and,

574
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: as one example, on November twelveen the Abington Monthly Meeting

575
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: of the Religious Society of Friends issued a statement that

576
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: it quote recognizes Benjamin Lay's dedication to equality and his

577
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: willingness to repeatedly speak his messages of truth to a

578
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: society that was in denial about the evils of slavery.

579
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: We acknowledge that Benjamin Lay used radical activism and his

580
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: attempts to teach his peers to recognize the equality before

581
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: God of all people, regardless of race or gender. He

582
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 1: lived his life with integrity according to his Quaker beliefs,

583
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: and he called others, especially slave owners, to accountability. The

584
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: statement went on to say, quote, we now recognize the

585
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: truth behind Benjamin Lay's abolitionist efforts. Although we may not

586
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: reinstate membership for someone who is deceased, we recognize Benjamin

587
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: Lay as a friend of the truth and as being

588
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: in unity with the spirit of our Abington Monthly Meeting.

589
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: The statements from the other congregations that had disowned him

590
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: during his life had very similar tones, and in some

591
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: cases issued joint statements about it. In addition to all

592
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: of these statements, a stone commemorating Sarah and Benjamin Lay

593
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: was placed in the Abington Burial Ground on Apeen and

594
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: a historical marker. A state historical marker was dedicated on

595
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: September two, so he has become a little more well

596
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: known over the last couple of years. I love it.

597
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: Do you have a little bit of listener mail? I do.

598
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: We got emails from a couple of folks in the

599
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,959
Speaker 1: same topic. This first one is from Daniel. Daniel says,

600
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: good day, I love your podcasts. I'm currently an active

601
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: duty officer with the U. S. Navy Civil Engineer Corps

602
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: stationed abroad. CBS fall within the CEC's command, and I

603
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: have never heard of the incident mentioned regarding the nine

604
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: race riots in Guam. I'm an avid history buff and

605
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: have never come across this in my researchers scene it

606
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: mentioned in the US NAVYCB Museum. What you mentioned may

607
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: have been the Aganya Race riots and it involved the

608
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: third Marine Division. If CBS were involved, I would love

609
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: to hear more about the incident. I'll start asking around

610
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: and maybe some of my salty chiefs have more knowledge

611
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: on the confrontation. Very respectfully sounds damn, sounds more formally

612
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: than that, but privacy, I will just say Dan and

613
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: then The other note was from Catherine, and Catherine says,

614
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: Dear Tracy and Holly, thanks a lot for your show.

615
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: It's ter thick. I have one quick question for you.

616
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: In the July seventeen show and the Port Chicago Disaster,

617
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: it mentions a riot on Guam involving CBS in nineteen

618
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: forty four. The comment was about twenty nine minutes and

619
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: thirty seconds into the podcast. Can you tell me where

620
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: I could learn more about this? I served as a

621
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: Navy CBE for many years and would like to learn

622
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: more about the event, but I couldn't tell which of

623
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: the resources to use. UH. By the way, there's a

624
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: great U. S. Navy SABE museum at the Naval Base

625
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: Ventura County just north of Malibu if you're ever in

626
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: that area. The history of the cebes or military engineering

627
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: itself would be a great topic to add to your

628
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: future shows list. Thanks a lot and keep up the

629
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: great work. Best Kate. So thank you Kate and Dan

630
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: for these questions to uh jump back to what we

631
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: said in the podcast. Um In the episode on the

632
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: Port Chicago disaster, we referenced a riot involving black Seabees

633
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: and white Marines on Guam in December of ninety four.

634
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: That's what we said in the podcast. So if you're

635
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: not familiar, CBS are Construction Battalion. Originally this was kind

636
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 1: of a nickname from the initials CB. Eventually did become

637
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 1: the formal name. So that was the a Gana Riot,

638
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: which was named after the town where part of it happened.

639
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: That town is now called Hagatna and it's the capital

640
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: of Guam. There had been ongoing violence in Guam leading

641
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: up to it, including an off duty white MP firing

642
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: on black men in the town and a white sailor

643
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: shooting and killing a black marine. There were forty three

644
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: black sailors who tried to invade the white marine barracks

645
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: on Christmas night nineteen and retaliation they were arrested. And

646
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: then there were also rumors of another incident in which

647
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: a black sailor had been killed by a white marine

648
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: and that was what tipped off this riot. So multiple

649
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: sources that we used for this episode referenced the riot

650
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: as part of the context report Chicago and for the

651
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: trials afterward and all of that, and some of them

652
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: used the name agan Near Riot and others didn't. Only

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00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: one of them describes the black serviceman involved as CBS,

654
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: and that was an essay by Charles W. Lemberg called

655
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: Blacks Versus Navy Blue the Mayor Island Mutiny Court Martial,

656
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: and that was published in the journal California History. Other

657
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: accounts that were part of the research didn't describe these

658
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: men as CBS, but they were also pretty vague and

659
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: contradictory about who the black servicemen were and what unit

660
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 1: they were with. This is surely info that does exist

661
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: concretely somewhere. It's just not something I could confirm leading

662
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: up to it. So it's possible that Walloenberg just made

663
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: an error when he described these men as cebes, or

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00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: that he conflated the Ghanya riots with something else, because

665
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 1: there were other things that went on with the black

666
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 1: Sebes in World War Two, including about a thousand black

667
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: Sebes who went on a hunger strike in March of

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00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: nineteen to protest discrimination and segregation, and uh nineteen black

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00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: Seebes who were dishonorably discharged in October of nineteen forty

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00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: three after they had reported racial discrimination. So that is

671
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: the whole story of attempting to clarify what we said

672
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: in the podcast. Um so thank you to both of

673
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: you are writing in about that. If you would like

674
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: to write to us about this or any other podcast

675
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: or a history podcasts at how stuff Works dot com.

676
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: And then we're all over social media at miss in History.

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00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: That is where you will find our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest,

678
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: and Instagram. You can come to our website which is

679
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: missing history dot com and find show notes for all

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00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: the episodes Holly and I have done together and a

681
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: searchable archive of all the episodes ever and you can

682
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: subscribe to our show on Apple, podcast, the heart radio app,

683
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: and rehever else you have podcasts. Stuff you Missed in

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00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: History Class is a production of I Heart Radio's How

685
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit

686
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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows