WEBVTT - 6. Outside the Little Houses

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<v Speaker 1>This episode contains descriptions of racist depictions.

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<v Speaker 2>Listeners please be advised.

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<v Speaker 1>At her best, Laura Ingles Wylder's Little House on the

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<v Speaker 1>Prairie books offered door for readers to walk through or

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<v Speaker 1>drive through, as we did, to find out what is

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<v Speaker 1>on the other side.

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<v Speaker 2>Ideally, they prompt you to want to know more.

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<v Speaker 3>They're an artifact of what's erased and what's alighted and

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<v Speaker 3>what you haven't been told, and that's valuable too, Like

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<v Speaker 3>so much of learning about our history and understanding the

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<v Speaker 3>literature is also looking at the negative spaces.

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<v Speaker 1>You want to know where in the country the houses

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<v Speaker 1>were located. You want to know why it was called

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<v Speaker 1>Indian territory. Who were the Native Americans living alongside the Ingles.

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<v Speaker 1>You want to know if that long hard winter really existed?

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<v Speaker 1>What we're buffalo wolves? Do they still exist? What was

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<v Speaker 1>the full picture of Laura's world?

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<v Speaker 3>For those who have an impulse to do it, to

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<v Speaker 3>continue to think about the role that that narrative played

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<v Speaker 3>and why and how.

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<v Speaker 1>There are hints of that outside world in the books

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<v Speaker 1>if you look for them, but there are few and

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<v Speaker 1>can be confusing if you don't know the bigger picture.

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<v Speaker 4>Multiple times Laura Ingall's Wilder will say MA hated Indians.

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<v Speaker 4>MA hates Indians, but we never know why. At least

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<v Speaker 4>in the Little House series.

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<v Speaker 1>Laura and Rose did an extraordinary job of painting a cozy,

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<v Speaker 1>magical picture of the Ingles family alone and self sufficient

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<v Speaker 1>against the world. But they were neither alone nor in

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<v Speaker 1>many cases as self sufficient as the books would like

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<v Speaker 1>readers to believe.

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<v Speaker 2>No one was.

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<v Speaker 1>But understanding the Ingles story as part of a whole

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<v Speaker 1>demands understanding that many things can be true at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time.

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<v Speaker 5>Part of what's interesting about stories like Little House on

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<v Speaker 5>the Prairie is that they are true.

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<v Speaker 6>Right.

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<v Speaker 5>The perspective is an accurate one as far as it goes,

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<v Speaker 5>but it requires putting yourself in the shoes of an

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<v Speaker 5>individual embedded and really complicated, sometimes violent systems. The way

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<v Speaker 5>that American culture knows and doesn't know that history is

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<v Speaker 5>pretty remarkable.

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<v Speaker 1>In this episode, we're going to briefly try and paint

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<v Speaker 1>a bigger picture for you. Imagine you are standing in

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<v Speaker 1>the doorway of any one of Laura's Little houses. You're

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<v Speaker 1>looking outside. What might you actually be seeing. I'm Glennis McNicol,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is Wilder Let's start by going over some

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<v Speaker 1>of the basics. Laura was born in Wisconsin in eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty seven, two years after the end of the Civil

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<v Speaker 1>War and five years after the US Dakota War of

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen sixty two. Unless you read the Little House Books

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<v Speaker 1>alongside an encyclopedia, you'd know neither of these things. The

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<v Speaker 1>only nod we get to the Civil War and Little

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<v Speaker 1>House is in the first book, Little House in the

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<v Speaker 1>Big Woods, Laura's uncle George briefly appears at Grandma's house.

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<v Speaker 1>According to Pa, George has been quote wild since he

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<v Speaker 1>came back from the war. Uncle George still wears his

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<v Speaker 1>blue army coat with brass buttons and blows his bugle

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<v Speaker 1>into the woods.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's it. There's no further explanation.

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<v Speaker 1>As a kid in Canada having no concept of the

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<v Speaker 1>Civil War, this meant nothing to me. I'm considering the

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<v Speaker 1>global reach of the Little House Books. I doubt I'm

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<v Speaker 1>alone in not understanding the reference. But it's obviously important

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<v Speaker 1>in the context of Laura's life and the America that

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<v Speaker 1>would spend her childhood.

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<v Speaker 2>Moving through.

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<v Speaker 1>The entire Little House series takes place in the aftermath

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<v Speaker 1>of the Civil War and at the height of the

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<v Speaker 1>push for westward expansion.

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<v Speaker 5>So the period after the Civil War, which is when

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<v Speaker 5>all of this manifested, was one big land giveaway after

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<v Speaker 5>another from the federal government in an effort to push

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<v Speaker 5>settlement west of the Mississippi River.

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<v Speaker 2>This is environmental historian Chris Wells.

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<v Speaker 1>He talked to us about the Homestead Act of eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty two, one of the largest government efforts to convince

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<v Speaker 1>settlers to go west.

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<v Speaker 5>The basic premise is that anyone who was a citizen

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<v Speaker 5>or who could become a citizen, could make a land claim,

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<v Speaker 5>and after paying minimal filing fees, could have the land

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<v Speaker 5>needed to them by the federal government as long as

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<v Speaker 5>you stayed on the land for a certain period of

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<v Speaker 5>time and made some improvements to it.

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<v Speaker 1>Little House is how I learned about the Homestead Act.

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<v Speaker 1>The process of staking a claim is detailed and by

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<v Speaker 1>the shores of Silver Lake in a chapter called Pause

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<v Speaker 1>bet After their first winter in the Dakota Tis territories,

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<v Speaker 1>pau goes to file on his claim.

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<v Speaker 2>He lines up overnight.

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<v Speaker 1>The men behind him try to tackle him because they

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<v Speaker 1>want his land, but mister Edwards, the wildcat from Tennessee,

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<v Speaker 1>appears and saves Paw. In the books, we're led to

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<v Speaker 1>believe that homesteaders have an almost.

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<v Speaker 2>Divine right to this new land. Paw makes it sound

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<v Speaker 2>like a game.

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<v Speaker 1>Quote, girls, I've bet Uncle Sam fourteen dollars against one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and sixty acres of land, going to help me

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<v Speaker 1>win the bet? But of course, the motives behind the

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<v Speaker 1>Homestead Act are far more complicated than what we're told

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<v Speaker 1>in the book.

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<v Speaker 5>The federal government's claim on that land was complicated by

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<v Speaker 5>the fact that this was essentially a colonial takeover of

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<v Speaker 5>Native American territory. One of the reasons the country's leaders

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<v Speaker 5>wanted to get people onto the land and to say,

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<v Speaker 5>was basically to stake a irreversible claim to it and

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<v Speaker 5>to finalize the process of wresting it from hands of

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<v Speaker 5>Indigenous inhabitants.

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<v Speaker 1>And naturally, the government's decisions were also intertwined with the

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<v Speaker 1>interests of American industry, namely the railroad.

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<v Speaker 7>There are a couple of ways in which the railroad

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<v Speaker 7>and the Homestead Act are intertwined.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Flannery Burke, Professor of American Studies at Saint Louis University.

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<v Speaker 7>The railroad was financed by grants of so called public

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<v Speaker 7>land to the railroad, which the railroad could then sell

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<v Speaker 7>to potential settlers to finance the building of the railroad itself.

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<v Speaker 7>And for the most part, this financing scheme.

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<v Speaker 2>Did not work at all.

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<v Speaker 7>Almost every railroad, I think all but one railroad went

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<v Speaker 7>bankrupt at some point, so it was not an effective

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<v Speaker 7>form of financing the railroad.

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<v Speaker 1>The Homestead Act also meant a lot of land was

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<v Speaker 1>available to people who hadn't been able to own property before,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of people, regardless of their farming experience,

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<v Speaker 1>were willing to take the gamble.

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<v Speaker 7>The Homestead Act was extraordinarily democratic for its time period.

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<v Speaker 7>Women could homestead, immigrants could homestead, African Americans could homestead.

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<v Speaker 7>It was locally administered, so discrimination against all of those

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<v Speaker 7>groups might mitigate against their successful settlement on the land,

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<v Speaker 7>but it was really open to a wide variety of people.

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<v Speaker 7>North Dakota was one of the most ethnically and linguistically

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<v Speaker 7>diverse places in the late nineteenth century of almost any

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<v Speaker 7>place in the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>That diversity is almost entirely absent from the Little House Books,

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<v Speaker 1>with the exception of the Native Americans, the Ingles encounter.

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<v Speaker 1>The only non English speaking characters we meet is mister Hanson,

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<v Speaker 1>who the Ingles by the dugout from, and Missus Nelson

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<v Speaker 1>and her daughter Anna, who only speaks Norwegian. This absence

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<v Speaker 1>was intentional on Laura and Rose's part. Rose in particular

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<v Speaker 1>was keen to emphasize the self sufficiency of the Ingles family,

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<v Speaker 1>a core theme in the series. The Ingle's ability to

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<v Speaker 1>fend for themselves is part of the cozy magic of

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<v Speaker 1>the books. The idea of absolute independence from all systems

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<v Speaker 1>of support reappears again and again. These themes are deeply familiar.

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<v Speaker 1>The belief in self sufficiency, the rugged individual, the hard worker,

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<v Speaker 1>pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. These traits are as

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<v Speaker 1>closely associated with what it means to be American as

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<v Speaker 1>cowboys in apple Pie.

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<v Speaker 2>The truth is much different.

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<v Speaker 1>Any hope of survival on the American frontier was impossible

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<v Speaker 1>without some sort of outside structural support. The individual is

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<v Speaker 1>a fantasy, a brutal fantasy.

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<v Speaker 7>The forced removal of Native people was a social service

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<v Speaker 7>for settlers.

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<v Speaker 1>The forced removal of Native Americans was government support.

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<v Speaker 2>It made the Homestead Act possible.

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<v Speaker 1>Settlers couldn't be settlers if the government hadn't cleared to

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<v Speaker 1>the land, and settlers wouldn't be able to remain on

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<v Speaker 1>that land if the government hadn't aligned themselves with the railroads.

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<v Speaker 7>The financing of the railroad was a social service for settlers.

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<v Speaker 7>They actually want more government in their life.

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<v Speaker 1>And here's where we get into multiple things being true

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time, because it's also true that on

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<v Speaker 1>an individual level, homesteaders were often left to fend for

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<v Speaker 1>themselves under the most brutal circumstances.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, people were that are really starving.

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<v Speaker 6>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's environmental historian Chris Wells.

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<v Speaker 6>Again.

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<v Speaker 5>You have these plagues multiple years in a row for

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<v Speaker 5>people who have to feed themselves as you can't feed yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>Remember the grasshoppers that plagued the Ingles and on the

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<v Speaker 1>banks of Plumb Creek. There were no social services to

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<v Speaker 1>help starving settlers. Instead of providing food or money, one

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<v Speaker 1>of the government's solutions to the problem was to tell

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<v Speaker 1>farmers to pray the grasshoppers away. Obviously, that didn't solve

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<v Speaker 1>the problem, but eventually the government did provide some relief,

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<v Speaker 1>though it was scant and at times seemingly cruel.

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<v Speaker 5>There was a requirement that farmers had to sell their

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<v Speaker 5>livestock before they could claim any sort of aid, and

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<v Speaker 5>they had to sign a sworn oath that they were

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<v Speaker 5>entirely without means. So this is something that Lori Ingle's

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<v Speaker 5>father had to do. He signed the pledge, he got

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<v Speaker 5>a barrel of flour worth about five bucks, and then

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<v Speaker 5>walked a couple hundred miles to a farm where he

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<v Speaker 5>could hire himself out for the harvest season.

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<v Speaker 1>In the books, after the grasshoppers destroy the crops, Paw

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<v Speaker 1>sets out to look for work.

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<v Speaker 2>Of his own volition.

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<v Speaker 1>Any hint that he was participating in a government relief

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<v Speaker 1>program is completely absent. It's also true that the little

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<v Speaker 1>relief that was provided was more than had ever existed

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<v Speaker 1>prior to this, so.

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<v Speaker 5>The idea that any sort of aid from the public

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<v Speaker 5>sector would have been available seems kind of remarkable.

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<v Speaker 1>What gets lost in how we learn about all this,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it be from the Little House series or the

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<v Speaker 1>general narrative of American history, is that two things can

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<v Speaker 1>be true at the same time. Homesteaders could be getting

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<v Speaker 1>more support than ever before, and yet it was still

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<v Speaker 1>not enough.

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<v Speaker 5>So what's true for an individual and what's true in

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<v Speaker 5>the broader context are often not the same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that's a useful way of thinking.

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<v Speaker 5>About the debates over POD being a failure and what

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<v Speaker 5>it was like to be out on the frontier and

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<v Speaker 5>to be a settler trying to turn what had up

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<v Speaker 5>until very recently been indigenous land that got often violently

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<v Speaker 5>rested away and then turned over to anyone who bothered

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<v Speaker 5>to show up and had the will and the means

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<v Speaker 5>to try to make a go of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Settlers could be participating in violent systems and still be

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<v Speaker 1>left enormously vulnerable.

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<v Speaker 5>So it took a huge amount of violence and willpower

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<v Speaker 5>and throwing the nation's way around to make the land

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<v Speaker 5>available to settlers. But then they were sort of on

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<v Speaker 5>their own, and so that's not a great set of

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<v Speaker 5>conditions to set people up for success.

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<v Speaker 1>Home centers may have been left on their own, but

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<v Speaker 1>they were not left without purpose. If there's one thing

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<v Speaker 1>America knows how to do better than anyone else, it's

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<v Speaker 1>telling a story. And more powerful than any government service

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<v Speaker 1>was the mythology the nation wrapped around itself in the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteenth century. We're talking of course, about manifest destiny, the

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<v Speaker 1>belief that white settlers were destined to expand across America, from.

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<v Speaker 2>Coast to coast.

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<v Speaker 1>I did not encounter the term manifest destiny until well

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<v Speaker 1>into my twenties, long after I'd moved to the US.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to know from someone who grew up here

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<v Speaker 1>whether it was still taught as a part of American history,

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<v Speaker 1>and if so, how so, I asked Joe. So, obviously

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't grow up in the American education system. I

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<v Speaker 1>grew up in the Canadian education system.

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<v Speaker 8>Which is probably better than I.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just very it's very different.

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<v Speaker 1>And so a lot of my American history education came

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:11.160
<v Speaker 1>through television and also through a very Canadian lens. Of

0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.200
<v Speaker 1>the Americans like to say they won this war, but

0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.440
<v Speaker 1>if they had, we'd be part of America sort of skepticism.

0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.080
<v Speaker 1>But so I'm just curious as we're talking about this,

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, the idea of manifest destiny comes up again

0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>and again where Rose particular is concerned, but where Little

0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.280
<v Speaker 1>House is concerned, and I want to sort of understand

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.840
<v Speaker 1>if that was a concept you were taught, and if so,

0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:36.760
<v Speaker 1>how you were taught.

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.800
<v Speaker 8>I don't remember learning about manifest destiny when I was

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.320
<v Speaker 8>a kid or a teenager. I learned it when I

0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 8>was in grad school at NYU studying religious studies.

0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 2>I think that.

0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.760
<v Speaker 8>Was the first time that I heard the phrase manifest destiny.

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 8>Isn't that crazy that I was in graduate school?

0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 1>But I also think gets so telling that you heard

0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.120
<v Speaker 1>it in religious studies. That says quite a lot because

0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 1>my understanding of it now, I mean, the idea that

0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.760
<v Speaker 1>white Americans were divinely ordained to settle the entire continent

0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 1>of North America feels like a religious belief system.

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.560
<v Speaker 8>Oh ahead and sending up in a religious studies master's program.

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Threaded throughout the Little House books is the idea the

0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Ingles are pursuing some kind of mythic Western movement. One

0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 1>of Pau's core character traits is that he always wants

0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>to keep going all the way out to a place

0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:36.000
<v Speaker 1>called Oregon.

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:37.520
<v Speaker 2>He tells Laura.

0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:42.000
<v Speaker 1>This reinvention of self is core to American mythology. If

0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 1>one enterprise fails, you simply pick up and keep going

0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.480
<v Speaker 1>to the next, driven by hope and the potential of

0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.880
<v Speaker 1>winning the bat With Uncle Sam, we think of the

0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Little House series and the Ingles family as fulfilling this

0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.040
<v Speaker 1>idea of the westward American journey. When we talked to

0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:05.720
<v Speaker 1>historian Flannery Burke about this, she pointed out something so obvious.

0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 2>I was stunned it had never occurred to me before.

0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:14.960
<v Speaker 7>One of the things that is frequently overlooked, even by

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:21.120
<v Speaker 7>scholars these days, is that Laura Ingles and her family

0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:26.000
<v Speaker 7>were moving north and south much more frequently than they

0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 7>were moving west.

0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.679
<v Speaker 1>Of course, I knew this practically. I'd mapped out Laura's

0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.480
<v Speaker 1>travels on an atlas since childhood. We had driven to

0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.520
<v Speaker 1>all of the houses Laura was born in Wisconsin. Then

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the family went south to Kansas, back up to Wisconsin,

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:52.520
<v Speaker 1>then over to Minnesota, south again to Iowa, then back

0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.600
<v Speaker 1>up on a little bit west.

0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:55.200
<v Speaker 2>To South Dakota.

0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.399
<v Speaker 1>And that's where they stop until Laura and all Manso

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 1>and Rose go south again to Missouri. But here's an

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:11.800
<v Speaker 1>extraordinary example of mythology over reality, because even knowing all

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.760
<v Speaker 1>of this, I'd always conceived of their journey as a

0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:16.520
<v Speaker 1>westward one.

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:22.800
<v Speaker 7>I think that the power of the mythology that makes

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.040
<v Speaker 7>it hard for us to imagine the Ingles family moving

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.399
<v Speaker 7>north and south. That same mythology of the frontier, the

0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.919
<v Speaker 7>mythology of manifest destiny, the power of that myth cannot

0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:37.879
<v Speaker 7>be underestimated. It is just extraordinarily, extraordinarily powerful, and so

0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.880
<v Speaker 7>people think, well, we move further and further west, even

0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 7>if they didn't, and if we move further in fur

0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.639
<v Speaker 7>their west, then we had to do better and better.

0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 7>Progress is a necessary part of that mythology.

0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.840
<v Speaker 1>But the Ingles never really did better until Laura achieved

0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.240
<v Speaker 1>financial success in our seventies. Every member of the family

0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:03.120
<v Speaker 1>essentially died in poverty. But that mythology of Western movement

0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.080
<v Speaker 1>and progress and success is a hard one to shake

0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.880
<v Speaker 1>because its promise of a new beginning is so appealing.

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 2>For Rose especially.

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 1>It may have provided her with the dramatic and purposeful

0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:22.639
<v Speaker 1>narrative her actual upbringing lacked. No one romanticized the Ozarks.

0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.280
<v Speaker 1>The Ozarks are where the Wilders settled. It's where Rosewilder

0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Lane grew up until she finished high.

0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 2>School in the South, and the Ozarks.

0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 7>If the Midwest is overlooked, the Ozarks are overlooked by everybody,

0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.800
<v Speaker 7>you know, not part of the Midwest, not part of

0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.439
<v Speaker 7>the West, not part of the South, their own place.

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:51.320
<v Speaker 7>It's not surprising to me that Rose Wilder Lane and

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 7>the Little House Books might come out of that environment.

0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Rose had always resented her poor upbringing in the Ozarks.

0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 1>The Frontier myth, on the other hand, gave poverty and suffering,

0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:08.119
<v Speaker 1>meaning there was a lot of poverty and a lot

0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.480
<v Speaker 1>of suffering, and without that fantasy, it's easy to imagine

0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:17.720
<v Speaker 1>it would have been unbearable. The divide between American mythology

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.199
<v Speaker 1>and reality is perhaps never more stark than when it

0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:25.159
<v Speaker 1>comes to the history of Native Americans. The mythology of

0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 1>the heroic white settler has enabled us to look away

0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:29.560
<v Speaker 1>from the brutal truth.

0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:30.959
<v Speaker 2>Of the Native American experience.

0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.440
<v Speaker 1>After the break, we're going to talk about one of

0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the most significant events in American history, one that contributes

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.679
<v Speaker 1>to the worst narratives but continues to be left out

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.320
<v Speaker 1>of many history books. It also helps put in context

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:56.800
<v Speaker 1>some of Maa's worst behavior. In some ways, the Little

0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.960
<v Speaker 1>House books can read like an elegy for a lost world,

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and to.

0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:02.720
<v Speaker 2>A degree, that's what they are.

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.680
<v Speaker 1>Pau moves his family out of the Big Woods because

0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:08.200
<v Speaker 1>he complains that there is no game.

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:10.280
<v Speaker 2>The land has been stripped bare.

0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 5>In eighteen fifty, which is right after Minnesota Territory was

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:22.360
<v Speaker 5>created as a territory, the settler population was six thousand,

0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:23.480
<v Speaker 5>seventy seven.

0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.720
<v Speaker 2>That's environmental historian Chris Wells. Again.

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:31.720
<v Speaker 5>By eighteen fifty seven, the population swelled to more than

0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:37.440
<v Speaker 5>one hundred and fifty thousand. The population doubled between eighteen

0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:41.760
<v Speaker 5>sixty and eighteen seventy. Then it nearly doubled again by

0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:46.680
<v Speaker 5>eighteen eighty to seven hundred and eighty thousand, and by

0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.280
<v Speaker 5>eighteen ninety it was one point three million.

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.280
<v Speaker 1>This influx of settlers took an immediate toll on the

0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 1>land and the people who had long called it home.

0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:01.720
<v Speaker 1>Prior to this population explosiona had literally been the land

0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 1>of plenty, looking.

0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.840
<v Speaker 5>As far as you could see across the Great Plains,

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.639
<v Speaker 5>and have it just be covered with an undulating mass

0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.000
<v Speaker 5>of bison as far as you could see. So those

0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:19.440
<v Speaker 5>experiences of overwhelming numbers of a single animal or insect

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:22.399
<v Speaker 5>or bird were one of the ways that some people

0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.520
<v Speaker 5>thought of what made America different and special compared to

0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:31.840
<v Speaker 5>the old World Europe, and that super abundance was characteristic.

0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:38.639
<v Speaker 1>That superabundance quickly disappeared much of it during Laura's lifetime.

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.840
<v Speaker 1>The extraordinary descriptions she provides of our natural surroundings in

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.160
<v Speaker 1>the books are actually a landscape that no longer exists,

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.199
<v Speaker 1>and while she doesn't say so specifically, all through the

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:54.040
<v Speaker 1>books is woven this sense of loss. In the final

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:56.919
<v Speaker 1>pages of By the Shores of Silver Lake, the last

0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:01.359
<v Speaker 1>book to convey any feeling of wildness, Laura's youngest sister, Grace,

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:05.600
<v Speaker 1>gets lost on the prairie. Laura eventually finds her in

0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:09.680
<v Speaker 1>a large, round hollow in the ground that's carpeted in violets.

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:12.000
<v Speaker 2>She later asked.

0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.879
<v Speaker 1>Paw what the hollow was, quote, could it be a

0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:20.520
<v Speaker 1>fairy ring? It isn't like a real place, truly. They

0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:26.360
<v Speaker 1>aren't like ordinary violets. Ma naturally admonishes Laura for believing

0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 1>in fairies, but then pa explains, quote, you're right, Laura.

0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Human hands didn't.

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Make that place, but your fairies were big, ugly brutes.

0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:42.240
<v Speaker 1>That place is an old buffalo wallow. Now the buffalo

0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:47.760
<v Speaker 1>are gone and grass grows over their wallows, grass and violets.

0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 6>I know that was so appealing to me, you know,

0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:56.320
<v Speaker 6>Laura riding free on the prairie or the buffalo wallow

0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 6>with the crocuses.

0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:02.159
<v Speaker 1>Here's Lizzie Skernick, writer and professor of children's literature at.

0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.439
<v Speaker 4>NYU, and what's interesting is of course, when you say, oh,

0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.280
<v Speaker 4>that's an old buffalo wallow, it's like, yeah, it's so

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.160
<v Speaker 4>old general Buffalo anymore.

0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Paw never tells us why the buffalo are all gone.

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:20.400
<v Speaker 1>The buffalo are all gone because the US government had

0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:23.440
<v Speaker 1>exterminated them in an attempt to remove the main food

0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:26.880
<v Speaker 1>source of the Native Americans and make the land available

0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:31.480
<v Speaker 1>for white settlement. In the late eighteen sixties, the government

0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:35.040
<v Speaker 1>called for huntsmen to slaughter as many buffalo as they could.

0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Buffalo Bill, the legendary Western figure, was so named because

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:44.919
<v Speaker 1>he claimed to have killed over four thousand buffalo in

0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:50.560
<v Speaker 1>eighteen months. One US Army colonel was quoted as saying, quote,

0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:55.119
<v Speaker 1>kill every buffalo you can. Every buffalo dead is an

0:24:55.200 --> 0:25:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Indian gone end quote. Many of the hunters were equipped

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:02.800
<v Speaker 1>by the US Army with guns to do just that.

0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Between eighteen forty and eighteen ninety, the population of buffalo

0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:14.400
<v Speaker 1>in the US went from thirty five million to five

0:25:14.520 --> 0:25:21.520
<v Speaker 1>hundred and forty one. The removal of food sources for

0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:25.280
<v Speaker 1>Native Americans by the US government is a reoccurring event

0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:29.160
<v Speaker 1>over the nineteenth century, and one that takes many forms.

0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:32.040
<v Speaker 1>It is also the root cause of one of the

0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:36.600
<v Speaker 1>most important conflicts between settlers and Native Americans in American history,

0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:40.199
<v Speaker 1>one that for a long time has been left out

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:44.000
<v Speaker 1>of many history books. It's almost entirely left out of

0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:45.320
<v Speaker 1>the Little House books.

0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:53.800
<v Speaker 4>Multiple times, lor Ingalls Wilder will say Ma hated Indians.

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:59.159
<v Speaker 4>Maw hates Indians, but we never know why. There's a

0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.320
<v Speaker 4>hint there, but we don't know what it is.

0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:08.280
<v Speaker 1>That's Gwen Westerman, author of the book Minnesota Macoche, The

0:26:08.359 --> 0:26:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Land of the Dakota.

0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:10.600
<v Speaker 2>Doctor.

0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Westerman is a professor of English literature at Minnesota State

0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:18.240
<v Speaker 1>University in man Cato. In the book Little House on

0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:21.000
<v Speaker 1>the Prairie, there is a scene where Ma is talking

0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:24.479
<v Speaker 1>to the neighbor Missus Scott, the woman who voices the

0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:26.560
<v Speaker 1>most racist lines in the Little House series.

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Missus Scott says.

0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:33.679
<v Speaker 1>Quote, I can't forget the Minnesota Massacre. My pawn brothers

0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:37.720
<v Speaker 1>went out with the rest of the settlers. At this point,

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Ma hushes Missus Scott, and when Laura later asks what

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 1>is a massacre? Ma says it is something Laura would

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:50.000
<v Speaker 1>understand when she was older. The Minnesota Massacre is referring

0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:53.919
<v Speaker 1>to the US Dakota War of eighteen sixty two, and

0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:57.160
<v Speaker 1>whether or not Laura did understand it later, no further

0:26:57.280 --> 0:27:01.040
<v Speaker 1>mention of it is made. The explanation behind all these

0:27:01.119 --> 0:27:04.199
<v Speaker 1>hints lies in a place called Mancato, Minnesota.

0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:07.240
<v Speaker 2>Man Cato is located eighty.

0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:11.399
<v Speaker 1>Two miles south southwest of Minneapolis and seventy nine miles

0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:16.199
<v Speaker 1>due west of Walnut Grove, Minnesota. Mankato is never mentioned

0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:19.000
<v Speaker 1>in the books, but if you watched the Little House

0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:22.360
<v Speaker 1>TV series, the name will likely be familiar to you.

0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:25.960
<v Speaker 1>In the television show, it feels like someone is either

0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:30.280
<v Speaker 1>going to or coming from man Cato every second episode.

0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:36.560
<v Speaker 4>I also watched The Little House on the Prairie TV series,

0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:39.760
<v Speaker 4>and what I knew was that when mon Pa wanted

0:27:39.800 --> 0:27:44.200
<v Speaker 4>to get away from the kids, they went to man Cato.

0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:47.159
<v Speaker 1>Last summer, Joe and Emily and I went to man Cato.

0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:50.439
<v Speaker 1>We needed a stop over between Burr Oak, Iowa and

0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:52.959
<v Speaker 1>just smet South Dakota, and I knew the name from

0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the television show and thought it would be fun to

0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:55.840
<v Speaker 1>be there.

0:27:57.040 --> 0:28:00.400
<v Speaker 2>This is a cute little town. Yeah, that's not a Mabel. Well,

0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:02.960
<v Speaker 2>they've got a pride flag in then the coffee Hag.

0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:06.200
<v Speaker 2>We you've got to go to the coffee on my

0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:06.840
<v Speaker 2>going through.

0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:10.320
<v Speaker 1>It turned out to be one of the most important

0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:15.840
<v Speaker 1>stops on our trip. Mancato, Minnesota, is the site of

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:20.359
<v Speaker 1>the largest mass execution in American history, the hanging of

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 1>thirty eight Dakota men in eighteen sixty two, known as

0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:30.040
<v Speaker 1>the Dakota thirty eight. President Abraham Lincoln mandated the execution

0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:33.960
<v Speaker 1>as punishment for the US Dakota War of eighteen sixty two.

0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:39.800
<v Speaker 4>The history of the Quota people in Minnesota is often

0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:44.640
<v Speaker 4>condensed to one event, and that's the war in eighteen

0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:49.200
<v Speaker 4>sixty two, and that is even condensed in a way

0:28:49.520 --> 0:28:54.440
<v Speaker 4>that makes it sound like there was one event that

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 4>caused it.

0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 2>This is doctor Gwen Westerman again.

0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:02.200
<v Speaker 4>Sometimes that story is told as Dakota men were out

0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:06.480
<v Speaker 4>hunting and took eggs from a farmer and there was

0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:10.360
<v Speaker 4>an argument and there was shooting and the farmer was dead.

0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:13.840
<v Speaker 4>It's not that simple. It's never that simple. This is

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:22.720
<v Speaker 4>decades of interactions, negotiations, and treaties that had legal, documented

0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 4>and implied obligations on both sides.

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Between eighteen thirty seven and eighteen fifty eight, the Eastern Dakota,

0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:36.720
<v Speaker 1>who resided in what is now Minnesota signed a series

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:40.160
<v Speaker 1>of treaties with the US government, seating land in exchange

0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:45.040
<v Speaker 1>for annual cash payments and other provisions. The eastern Dakota

0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:48.200
<v Speaker 1>were then displaced and moved to a reservation that was

0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:51.160
<v Speaker 1>twenty miles wide along either side of the Minnesota River.

0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:55.960
<v Speaker 1>The Civil War resulted in the US government falling behind

0:29:56.000 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 1>on their payments, and this, combined with the particularly harsh

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:03.160
<v Speaker 1>wind of eighteen sixty one, left the Dakota on the

0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 1>brink of starvation.

0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:07.800
<v Speaker 4>It was a hard time in eighteen sixty two for

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:10.920
<v Speaker 4>everybody who lived here. There had been drought, there had

0:30:10.960 --> 0:30:16.960
<v Speaker 4>been grasshopper infestations. Settlers were struggling and failing.

0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:18.560
<v Speaker 9>They were moving.

0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:23.600
<v Speaker 4>Away because of the difficult situation they were in, because

0:30:23.920 --> 0:30:28.120
<v Speaker 4>of what was happening on the land for everybody, so

0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:32.920
<v Speaker 4>failure to supply the promised goods and services of the

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:36.640
<v Speaker 4>eighteen fifty treaty, conditions of the land and the environment

0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:41.400
<v Speaker 4>at the time, the tension among people because of these

0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:46.040
<v Speaker 4>adverse conditions are all circumstances that led up to what

0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:49.560
<v Speaker 4>happened in eighteen sixty two. So there is no single

0:30:49.640 --> 0:30:51.000
<v Speaker 4>cause that we can point to you.

0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:56.880
<v Speaker 1>The US Dakota War took place between August and December

0:30:56.960 --> 0:30:59.680
<v Speaker 1>of eighteen sixty two. We're going to go over the

0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:02.800
<v Speaker 1>base facts of what happened, but as Gwen Westerman noted,

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:05.240
<v Speaker 1>the full history of the war is a long and

0:31:05.280 --> 0:31:08.520
<v Speaker 1>complicated one, and we've included links to further resources in

0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:14.280
<v Speaker 1>the show notes. On August seventeenth, a Dakota hunting party

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:18.080
<v Speaker 1>stole eggs from settlers in a town west of Minneapolis.

0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:23.840
<v Speaker 1>This raid led to the deaths of five settlers. After

0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:28.560
<v Speaker 1>extensive discussion, Little Crow, a chief of the Metawacatan Band

0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:30.680
<v Speaker 1>of Dakota, decided.

0:31:30.320 --> 0:31:31.400
<v Speaker 2>To continue the raids.

0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Remember this was eighteen sixty two, the height of the

0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Civil War, and because of this, the US government was

0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:45.360
<v Speaker 1>slow to send troops to Minnesota. Instead, former Minnesota Governor

0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Henry Sibley led a mostly volunteer militia against the Dakota.

0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:54.520
<v Speaker 1>The following month, US forces defeated the Dakota. Three days

0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 1>after this defeat, the Dakota surrendered, releasing nearly three hundred captives.

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:04.240
<v Speaker 1>The Dakota were then held until military trials could take

0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:09.000
<v Speaker 1>place in November. In the end, three hundred and fifty

0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:12.360
<v Speaker 1>eight settlers had been killed. In addition, to seventy seven

0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:16.960
<v Speaker 1>soldiers in twenty nine volunteer militia. It is not known

0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:20.880
<v Speaker 1>how many Dakota died. We do know what happened in

0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:26.400
<v Speaker 1>the aftermath. Approximately two thousand Dakota were rounded up, whether

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:29.960
<v Speaker 1>they had participated in the war or not, including women

0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:34.680
<v Speaker 1>and children, and they were then marched under harsh winter conditions,

0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:39.120
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of miles away to Fort Snelling, where they were

0:32:39.120 --> 0:32:42.080
<v Speaker 1>interned in a stockade under punishing conditions.

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:44.280
<v Speaker 2>One hundreds died.

0:32:47.120 --> 0:32:50.360
<v Speaker 1>A military commission found three hundred and ninety two Dakota

0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 1>men guilty.

0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Many of these trials lasted less than five minutes.

0:32:55.760 --> 0:32:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Of the three hundred and ninety two men, President Abraham Lincoln,

0:32:59.480 --> 0:33:03.400
<v Speaker 1>wanting to PA's white settlers but concerned about further conflict

0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:07.120
<v Speaker 1>that might divert resources from the Civil War, sentenced thirty

0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:11.560
<v Speaker 1>nine Dakota men to death. One was reprieved, and thirty

0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:16.200
<v Speaker 1>eight men were hanged. Two more were later captured and

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:17.240
<v Speaker 1>they were also hanged.

0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:23.680
<v Speaker 5>The US Dakota were ended with the largest mass hanging

0:33:24.360 --> 0:33:25.920
<v Speaker 5>in American history.

0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Thirty eight people were hanged.

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:34.280
<v Speaker 5>President Abraham Lincoln signed the order to do it, but

0:33:34.440 --> 0:33:38.360
<v Speaker 5>only after issuing a ton of pardons to reduce the

0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 5>number to the much smaller but still largest in US

0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:47.720
<v Speaker 5>history thirty eight, and then several hundred more people died

0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:52.600
<v Speaker 5>in sort of the non combatant camps that got set

0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:53.560
<v Speaker 5>up through the winter.

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:58.840
<v Speaker 1>When we were in man Cato, we visited the site

0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>of the hanging. It is located on a sliver of

0:34:01.720 --> 0:34:06.080
<v Speaker 1>pavement between lanes of traffic and railroad tracks. There's a

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:09.120
<v Speaker 1>buffalo statue at one end and at the other a

0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:12.360
<v Speaker 1>large structure that looks like parchment with the poem commemorating

0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:13.319
<v Speaker 1>the deaths of the war.

0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:17.360
<v Speaker 10>This is the hanging spot. This is the spot where

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:22.840
<v Speaker 10>the thirty eight were hung at once. Like I said,

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:29.720
<v Speaker 10>it's actually the spots in the street between the Winter

0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:33.240
<v Speaker 10>Warrior statue which is over there, and then this mound

0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:37.719
<v Speaker 10>was kind of the in between, with that being the

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:39.120
<v Speaker 10>buffalo being the trying.

0:34:38.840 --> 0:34:39.919
<v Speaker 11>And making it out.

0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:45.640
<v Speaker 1>This is Dan Zielski, chair of the Mikado Metawauketan Association,

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:49.879
<v Speaker 1>which hosts educational events for non Dakota to learn more

0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:52.040
<v Speaker 1>about Dakota culture, and.

0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Can you explain to us what we're sitting in front of.

0:34:56.000 --> 0:35:00.600
<v Speaker 10>This is a memorial to the thirty eight plus two

0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:05.080
<v Speaker 10>who were hung. Now, as you can see, there are

0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 10>tobacco ties all over it. Those are sacred items that

0:35:11.320 --> 0:35:16.000
<v Speaker 10>are made where they take the tobacco roll it up

0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.719
<v Speaker 10>into a tie. As you see, the four basic colors

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:28.600
<v Speaker 10>that represent our Mancato boockets and people here are the black,

0:35:28.800 --> 0:35:32.879
<v Speaker 10>the red, the yellow, and the white, and so you'll

0:35:32.920 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 10>see those colors quite often around here.

0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Before researching this podcast, I had never heard of the

0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:42.440
<v Speaker 1>US Dakota War. But as usual, I wasn't sure if

0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:44.839
<v Speaker 1>this was because I grew up in Canada or because

0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:47.920
<v Speaker 1>it's not widely taught in the American education system.

0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:50.399
<v Speaker 2>So once again I asked Joe.

0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:56.440
<v Speaker 1>I think my impression, and one that's only grown stronger

0:35:56.520 --> 0:35:59.279
<v Speaker 1>from the trip we did last summer, is that the

0:35:59.320 --> 0:36:05.480
<v Speaker 1>American education system is very fractured and often localized to

0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:09.600
<v Speaker 1>the state you grew up in. So did you learn

0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:13.719
<v Speaker 1>about the US Dakota War when you were in school?

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.759
<v Speaker 8>I can tell you right off the bat that our

0:36:17.200 --> 0:36:23.520
<v Speaker 8>Native American history was sorely lacking a lot of things

0:36:23.520 --> 0:36:26.960
<v Speaker 8>were glossed over. Specific wars were glossed over, so we

0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:31.239
<v Speaker 8>got kind of a bird's eye view. I didn't hear

0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:35.120
<v Speaker 8>anything about the Dakota War until we got to man

0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:37.160
<v Speaker 8>Cato on our road trip.

0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:39.680
<v Speaker 1>And then it felt like to me that people who'd

0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:42.160
<v Speaker 1>grown up in Minnesota were familiar with it, but that

0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:45.520
<v Speaker 1>literally the further we got away from Minnesota, like as

0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:48.879
<v Speaker 1>the miles ticked up, there was less and less familiarity

0:36:48.920 --> 0:36:52.000
<v Speaker 1>with that as an historic event. Even though it was

0:36:52.040 --> 0:36:54.920
<v Speaker 1>a huge historic event, it sort of doesn't factor into

0:36:54.960 --> 0:36:58.960
<v Speaker 1>America's idea of itself, I guess no.

0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:01.640
<v Speaker 8>I don't think a lot of things having to do

0:37:02.120 --> 0:37:06.279
<v Speaker 8>with the westward expansion of the American colonies and the

0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 8>early American States factor into how America wants to mythologize itself.

0:37:11.920 --> 0:37:15.480
<v Speaker 8>And I'd be really interested actually to talk to a

0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:19.320
<v Speaker 8>current high school student about what they're being taught, because

0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:22.680
<v Speaker 8>American history that was taught in the eighties, I'm sure

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:25.560
<v Speaker 8>is very different, I would hope is different than the

0:37:25.560 --> 0:37:30.120
<v Speaker 8>American history that's being taught now. But what I've realized

0:37:30.239 --> 0:37:32.680
<v Speaker 8>is that what I was taught in terms of American

0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:37.200
<v Speaker 8>history was largely through the eyes of the people who

0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:40.920
<v Speaker 8>had power and then were allowed to tell the stories.

0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Does learning any of this make you reconsider your idea

0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:44.759
<v Speaker 1>of the.

0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:48.040
<v Speaker 8>Country working on this podcast with You has made me

0:37:48.239 --> 0:37:52.400
<v Speaker 8>reconsider the idea of our country and the ideals that

0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:56.200
<v Speaker 8>we were founded on, and it is definitely making me

0:37:56.320 --> 0:38:03.320
<v Speaker 8>reconsider how we should and who should be telling American history.

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 1>When I began asking around on our travels, it became

0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:12.880
<v Speaker 1>clear that despite its national historic implications, and despite the

0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:15.719
<v Speaker 1>fact it's the largest mass execution in US.

0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:18.120
<v Speaker 2>History, the US Dakota.

0:38:17.840 --> 0:38:22.440
<v Speaker 1>War is treated as local history outside of Minnesota.

0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:24.520
<v Speaker 2>It's seemingly not well known at all.

0:38:25.280 --> 0:38:28.680
<v Speaker 11>In Minnesota. You're in your I think it's sixth grade.

0:38:28.840 --> 0:38:31.480
<v Speaker 11>You have to take a Minnesota history class, and I

0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:34.279
<v Speaker 11>think it's a full semester long. So yes, we did

0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:38.840
<v Speaker 11>learn about this, and then the man Cato massacre.

0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:39.640
<v Speaker 9>It was horrible.

0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:42.440
<v Speaker 1>That's the young college student who waited on us when

0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:44.360
<v Speaker 1>we had dinner on our first night in man Cato.

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:47.960
<v Speaker 1>She told us that in man Cato, the memory of

0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:51.399
<v Speaker 1>the war and the Dakota thirty eight is very well known.

0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:56.760
<v Speaker 11>Recitation Park, it's a hot spot for protests in the city.

0:38:56.920 --> 0:39:00.040
<v Speaker 11>So that's really cool down there. I actually started I

0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:04.280
<v Speaker 11>tried to start a petition on our university, the Mankato University.

0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:08.120
<v Speaker 11>There's a statue of Abraham Lincoln there, which I always

0:39:08.440 --> 0:39:11.160
<v Speaker 11>always thought was a horrible taste. I mean he did

0:39:11.160 --> 0:39:12.840
<v Speaker 11>a lot of great things, don't get me wrong, but

0:39:13.200 --> 0:39:15.239
<v Speaker 11>it was the fact that he signed off on that

0:39:15.480 --> 0:39:19.680
<v Speaker 11>and in man Cato where this mass.

0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:22.040
<v Speaker 2>Hanging, the biggest in history, happened.

0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:26.080
<v Speaker 11>So it just felt wrong and unethical to have the

0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:28.399
<v Speaker 11>statue of film on the University Robert here.

0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:30.640
<v Speaker 2>But did it go to to work?

0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:31.440
<v Speaker 10>Did it go anywhere?

0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:33.480
<v Speaker 11>No, it's they've been trying for years to get it

0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:37.520
<v Speaker 11>out of there. I don't know what's They're just really

0:39:37.600 --> 0:39:38.480
<v Speaker 11>dragging their toes.

0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:43.480
<v Speaker 1>The US Dakota War resulted in the Dakota being entirely

0:39:43.520 --> 0:39:48.360
<v Speaker 1>banished from Minnesota. In eighteen sixty three, the government voided

0:39:48.400 --> 0:39:52.160
<v Speaker 1>all treaties with the Dakota, and that summer, the governor

0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:55.520
<v Speaker 1>of Minnesota offered twenty five dollars bounties for the scalps

0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:59.239
<v Speaker 1>of Dakota men. The remaining Dakota were moved to a

0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 1>reservation in what is now South Dakota. Take a minute

0:40:03.960 --> 0:40:07.920
<v Speaker 1>and think about that two states in this country are

0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:13.719
<v Speaker 1>named after Native American tribes that originated from elsewhere. Their

0:40:13.760 --> 0:40:17.040
<v Speaker 1>presence in what is now North and South Dakota was

0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:20.160
<v Speaker 1>only the result of their expulsion from their original home.

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:23.520
<v Speaker 1>More than one hundred and fifty years later, the US

0:40:23.600 --> 0:40:27.759
<v Speaker 1>Dakota War still brings up complicated, passionate feelings in Minnesota.

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:31.279
<v Speaker 1>In some places, it continues to be referred to as

0:40:31.280 --> 0:40:35.840
<v Speaker 1>a conflict or an uprising instead of a war until

0:40:35.840 --> 0:40:39.400
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen seventies, when it was removed. The Hanging Monument,

0:40:39.520 --> 0:40:43.600
<v Speaker 1>as it was known, marked the mass execution site, but

0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:46.799
<v Speaker 1>had been erected by white residents and viewed as a

0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:51.480
<v Speaker 1>celebration of the event. Even if you didn't learn about

0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:54.839
<v Speaker 1>it in history class or realize the connection, we are

0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:56.920
<v Speaker 1>still filling the legacy of that war now.

0:40:58.560 --> 0:40:59.879
<v Speaker 2>The coverage of it by the media at.

0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.320
<v Speaker 1>The time time, which focused almost exclusively on the accounts

0:41:03.320 --> 0:41:08.400
<v Speaker 1>of white settlers, determined much of the narrative around quote dangerous,

0:41:08.480 --> 0:41:12.880
<v Speaker 1>bloodthirsty Indians that we still see in culture today.

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:17.279
<v Speaker 12>The idea that is so predominant in the way that

0:41:17.400 --> 0:41:21.560
<v Speaker 12>history is taught here is that Indians were bloodthirsty savages

0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:25.280
<v Speaker 12>and they attacked those brave, courageous pioneers.

0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:27.240
<v Speaker 2>That's doctor W. Reese again.

0:41:28.120 --> 0:41:30.040
<v Speaker 1>You might remember we spoke to doctor Reese in the

0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:33.720
<v Speaker 1>first episode, and that she runs a website called American

0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Indians and Children's Literature.

0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:39.440
<v Speaker 6>What is left out is those men who were engaged

0:41:39.440 --> 0:41:43.360
<v Speaker 6>in that were dads, and you know, they had babies

0:41:43.400 --> 0:41:46.239
<v Speaker 6>at home, and they had farms and they had crops,

0:41:46.280 --> 0:41:49.640
<v Speaker 6>and all of their identity as people of a community

0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:52.480
<v Speaker 6>is erased when we think of them as this just

0:41:52.480 --> 0:41:54.319
<v Speaker 6>bloodthirsty savage.

0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:58.279
<v Speaker 1>That narrative was embedded in the frontier shortly afterward and

0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:01.040
<v Speaker 1>was still strong seven years old later when the Ingles

0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:05.520
<v Speaker 1>arrived and the osage diminished reserve in eighteen seventy. In fact,

0:42:06.280 --> 0:42:09.680
<v Speaker 1>maybe even more than the Civil War, the US dakode

0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:12.560
<v Speaker 1>of War is the event that greatly affected Laura's childhood.

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:18.000
<v Speaker 1>It's so significant that Laura's biographer, Caroline Fraser chose to

0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:20.600
<v Speaker 1>open her book Prairie Fires with it.

0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:25.040
<v Speaker 9>It was just one of the bloodiest and most horrifying

0:42:25.480 --> 0:42:31.839
<v Speaker 9>spectacles of American history, and certainly as the event that

0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:36.520
<v Speaker 9>tipped off the whole next thirty years in terms of

0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:42.279
<v Speaker 9>Indian policy and Indian removal and so forth. It was

0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:46.000
<v Speaker 9>really quite shattering to figure out what that is. And

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:48.840
<v Speaker 9>I just thought I have to write about this because

0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:54.080
<v Speaker 9>it puts her entire childhood, but also particularly the events

0:42:54.520 --> 0:42:57.640
<v Speaker 9>that she covers in Little House on the Prairie, which

0:42:57.680 --> 0:43:01.799
<v Speaker 9>is the most important of the series. I think in

0:43:01.840 --> 0:43:06.000
<v Speaker 9>an entirely different light than I had ever understood before,

0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:08.680
<v Speaker 9>and so I just felt like I have to open

0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:12.440
<v Speaker 9>with this. This is in many ways, who she was,

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:16.600
<v Speaker 9>what her life was, what her mother's relationship, and fear,

0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:20.640
<v Speaker 9>intense fear of Indians. That's what that was all about.

0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:23.360
<v Speaker 9>That's where that was coming from.

0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:27.279
<v Speaker 1>It's reasonable to assume this was the narrative that Ma

0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:30.719
<v Speaker 1>was taking with her when pau relocated the family to

0:43:30.760 --> 0:43:34.600
<v Speaker 1>a legally squat on osage land. That terror we sense

0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:38.520
<v Speaker 1>in her is in part the terror of the experience

0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:41.239
<v Speaker 1>that had been sold to white homesteaders on the frontier

0:43:41.880 --> 0:43:45.880
<v Speaker 1>by the press for years, and it's a narrative that

0:43:45.920 --> 0:43:51.560
<v Speaker 1>has persisted through many Hollywood westerns ever since. How much

0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:54.840
<v Speaker 1>of all this context in history should have been included

0:43:54.840 --> 0:43:59.360
<v Speaker 1>in the books is, I think up for debate. Laura

0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:01.560
<v Speaker 1>did not sit down to write the history of America,

0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:05.279
<v Speaker 1>which is not to suggest Laura is not responsible for

0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:10.000
<v Speaker 1>the racist, violent content that is in the books, and

0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:14.640
<v Speaker 1>there's plenty. Next week, we're stepping back into the little Houses.

0:44:15.360 --> 0:44:17.319
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take a long, hard look at the

0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:20.360
<v Speaker 1>problems of Laura and talk about what is in the

0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:24.080
<v Speaker 1>books that has resulted in a lot of criticism and

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:28.640
<v Speaker 1>the renaming of a major children's literary award. There's more

0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:33.600
<v Speaker 1>than you might think or even remember. That's next week

0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:46.680
<v Speaker 1>on Wilder. Wilder is written and hosted by Me Glennis McNicol.

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<v Speaker 1>Our story editors are Joe Piazza and Emily Meroanoff. Our

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<v Speaker 1>senior producer is Emily Meranoff. Our producers are Mary do

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<v Speaker 1>Shina Ozaki and Jessica Crinchich. Our associate producer is Lauren Philip.

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<v Speaker 1>Sound design and mixing by Amanda ro Smith. Production help

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<v Speaker 1>from a Boo Zafar and a Savory Sharma. Our scene

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<v Speaker 1>in additional music was composed by Elise McCoy.

0:45:11.280 --> 0:45:14.919
<v Speaker 2>We are executive produced by Joe Piazza, Nikki tor, Ali

0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Perry and Me.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're enjoying Wilder, please consider rating and reviewing us

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<v Speaker 1>on Apple Podcasts. It actually helps us out quite a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>Special thanks to Gwen Westerman. Doctor Westerman is featured on

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<v Speaker 1>an episode of This American Life about the US Dakota

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<v Speaker 1>War titled Little War on the Prairie, and we encourage

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<v Speaker 1>you to check it out.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll find a link to it in our notes.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks to danzy Elski for showing us around Reconciliation Park

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<v Speaker 1>in Mankato, and thank you to everyone at the hotel

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<v Speaker 1>and restaurant in man Cato.

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<v Speaker 2>Who shared their thoughts on this history with us. Thank you,

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<v Speaker 2>as always to CDM Studios.

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<v Speaker 1>Please see our show notes if you want to know

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<v Speaker 1>more about the people we interviewed, the places we visited,

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<v Speaker 1>the books we mentioned. You can also find our contact

0:45:57.880 --> 0:45:59.160
<v Speaker 1>and go there if you want to write to us

0:45:59.160 --> 0:46:02.200
<v Speaker 1>with your own thoughts and questions. Follow us on Instagram

0:46:02.280 --> 0:46:06.719
<v Speaker 1>at Wilder Underscore podcast and on TikTok at Wilder Podcast,

0:46:07.000 --> 0:46:09.120
<v Speaker 1>where you can see behind the scenes footage from all

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<v Speaker 1>our travels.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.