1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: We also want to figure out what's happening in DC. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 3: You had a social media post from President Trum talking 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 3: about his readout from the President g and President Trump's call. 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 3: Maybe I didn't say that right, but anyway, he talked 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 3: about the call that they had together. Tyler Kendall was 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 3: joining us outside the White House. 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 2: What did he say? What do we know? Yeah, hey, 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: Alex Swell. 14 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 4: President Trump said that the call lasted a little over 15 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 4: an hour and a half and said that it resulted 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 4: in a quote positive conclusion for both countries. Importantly, he 17 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 4: said that moving forward, he doesn't think there's going to 18 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 4: be any questions around rare earth products. As you all know, 19 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 4: the US had been accusing China of slow walking the 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 4: export licenses when it comes to critical and rare earth 21 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 4: minerals that really are essential to US supply chains, alleging 22 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 4: that China had violated the terms reached when they had 23 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 4: negotiated in Geneva. In fact, I actually caught up with 24 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 4: the Deputy Treasury Secretary Michael Falkender earlier this week, who 25 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 4: told me that this was the issue that he thought 26 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 4: would ultimately mean that these leaders were eventually going to 27 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 4: have to get on the phone and talk about. President 28 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 4: Trump also said that there would be another round of 29 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 4: in person talks like we saw in Geneva. He said 30 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 4: that Treasury Secretary Scott Besson and Ustr Jamis and Greer 31 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 4: would lead them, as well as Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik. 32 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 4: That would be a new addition to the team. He 33 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 4: was not there at the talks in Geneva, but a 34 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 4: pretty remarkable development to think about how our reporting has 35 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 4: really indicated Paul and Alex that China would really much 36 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 4: prefer for key advisors to iron out the issues before 37 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 4: putting Jijiping on the phone call. And there were definitely 38 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 4: some key issues that they needed to talk about today. 39 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 5: But as it relates to those rare earths, the US 40 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 5: President did not specify whether Beijing had agreed to speed 41 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 5: export licenses. 42 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 6: Did he? 43 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 5: Is that something that's just too complex at this point, So. 44 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 4: We're still waiting further details, we act to put into 45 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 4: context that the truth social post was rather vague. But 46 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 4: President Trump himself said that he doesn't think that there 47 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 4: are going to be questions moving forward here. Of course, 48 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 4: it's a very complex process and has been something that 49 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 4: has been the top of mind for the United States 50 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 4: during these talks and really has become sort of a 51 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 4: pressure point moving forward, since we know our analysts at 52 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 4: Bloomberg Economics tell us that thirty out of fifty minerals 53 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 4: that are deemed critical to the US come primarily from China, 54 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 4: So they really do have such a big market share 55 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 4: when it comes to these critical minerals that the US 56 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 4: ends up relying on. 57 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 6: All right, very good. 58 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 5: We appreciate that we're just getting some latest more reporting 59 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 5: there from Washington, DC as it relates to some of 60 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 5: those talks, which I guess are inconclusive. 61 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: But I guess it's just good that I think is 62 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 3: the fact that they literally are talking. Yes, it's probably 63 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: a good thing, right, Yeah, Mari Tyler, thanks a lot. 64 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 3: Tyler Kendall, Bloomberg Television watching correspondent, joining us on that call. 65 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us Live 66 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android 67 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 68 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 69 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: All right, we got a slew of economic data that 70 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 3: came out this morning in jobless claims not great, unit 71 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: labor costs, higher, productivity lower. 72 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: It didn't feel really great. 73 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 3: Let's get Michael mckei Boomb're going to National Economics and 74 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 3: Policy correspondent. 75 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: How would you describe this data this morning? Not great? 76 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: C plus. 77 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 7: You know, maybe I'd give it a B minus at 78 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 7: this point, and I'll explain why. But first I did 79 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 7: want to mention so you were right. You're right about 80 00:03:55,080 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 7: band aids. This is one of those facts to express anywhere. 81 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 7: But I know somebody who is in the business of 82 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 7: retailing things like that, and a lot of companies have 83 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 7: generic brand band aids, and the story is that they 84 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 7: cannot afford the Chinese made generic band aids anymore. They're 85 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 7: going to have to raise the price so much that 86 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 7: they lose the value of having their own brand. So 87 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 7: this could be a thing you may put your finger on. 88 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 7: The whole problem with tariffs is can't get generic band 89 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 7: aids anymore. 90 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: Also, generic band aids are bad. That was my point. 91 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: I'm serious, Okay. 92 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 7: Anyway, Java's claims are bad to forty seven, but it's 93 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 7: the highest eight months. But the problem is, and unfortunately 94 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 7: I have only a black and white chart, so we 95 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 7: can't show it on the color radio. But this is 96 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 7: the time of year when we start to get into 97 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 7: seasonal distortions that have gotten worse since COVID the non 98 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 7: seasonally adjusted job those claims went down and the seasonally 99 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 7: adjusted went up significantly. And this has been happening for 100 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 7: a couple of weeks. And then you look at the 101 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 7: last couple of years and you see the same pattern. 102 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 7: So is this a message about what's going to happen maybe? 103 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 7: Or Neil Dudda and I were talking about it and 104 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 7: he says yes. Or is it just sort of a headfake. 105 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 7: Maybe the auto companies have started retooling earlier because they 106 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 7: aren't selling as many cars, don't need to make any cars, 107 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 7: they have some space to do it. So that's something 108 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 7: to keep an eye on. At this point. We've had 109 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 7: a lot of announcements Disney, Procter, and Gamble today about layoffs. 110 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 7: Although Procter and Gamble said seven thousand over two years, 111 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 7: and they didn't say what country, So we're not sure yet, 112 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 7: which is part of the reason that you have to 113 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 7: take this not so much with a big, great assault, 114 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 7: but just say, okay, that's interesting. Let's see what happens 115 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 7: in the next couple of weeks. Other than that, the 116 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 7: trade balance is not a surprise. We saw that in 117 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 7: the advanced trade numbers. Because we stopped buying things from overseas. 118 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 7: Imports went down fifteen and a half percent, which is 119 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 7: the biggest fall on record, and the trade balance falls 120 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 7: by more than half, which is the biggest fall on record. 121 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 7: But I think back to the first quarter where we 122 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 7: had bad growth figures because we imported so much. This 123 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 7: is going to have the opposite effect. And then while 124 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 7: the unit labor costs that Alex mentioned our old news, 125 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 7: I mean this first quarter news, it does suggest that 126 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 7: there's higher pressure on prices for companies, and it's part 127 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 7: of that whole Are we seeing an inflation and stagnation 128 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 7: thing at the same. 129 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: Time, which is kind of what you were talking about yesterday? 130 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 5: Put yeah, I mean a lot of the notes I 131 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 5: got from Wall Street economists, I kept seeing stagflation in 132 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 5: the title, So that's coming back. But if I look 133 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 5: at today's data, Michael's, you're just explaining it as well 134 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 5: as yesterday's im data. 135 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 6: I think these. 136 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 5: Economists are kind of getting it right. They've been telling 137 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 5: us maybe not the tariffs themselves, but the uncertainty associated 138 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 5: with teriffs that could lead to slower economic growth of 139 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 5: that could lead to higher prices. I don't know, it 140 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 5: feels like that's coming to fruition right now. 141 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 7: Well, that's one of the things that FED officials have 142 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 7: been talking about that companies have been sitting on the sidelines, 143 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 7: not sure what to do, but at some point they're 144 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 7: going to have to make a decision, and some of 145 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 7: them may be coming off the sidelines now and just 146 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 7: going ahead and raising prices in advance of tariffs. Some 147 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 7: things have gone up in price, but just betting that 148 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 7: something's going to happen. Part of it because they want 149 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 7: to protect their margins, and part of it is they're 150 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 7: probably testing the waters we saw in the last inflation. 151 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 7: When it started, people were raising prices more than their 152 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 7: costs were going up because they hadn't been able to 153 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 7: raise prices in years, and so they were taking advantage 154 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 7: of it and maybe that's a little bit of what 155 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 7: we're seeing now. There have been some studies out recently 156 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 7: that suggests that when Trump announced the tariffs, people raised 157 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 7: some prices. Then when he put the ninety day hold 158 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 7: on it, they didn't lower those prices. So businesses are 159 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 7: maybe not anxious to test whether they lose market share, 160 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 7: but they're willing to do it if they think that 161 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 7: things are going to continue in that direction. 162 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 3: All right, Mike, thanks lot, really appreciate it. Michael mcke Boomer, 163 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: Economics and Policy correspond. 164 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 165 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android 166 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 167 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 168 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: Well, how speaker Mike Johnson earlier joined Bloomberg to discuss 169 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 3: key issues such as Elon Musk's vocal disagreement with the 170 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 3: Big Beautiful Bill and the speaker Johnson's fight to keep 171 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 3: the forty thousand dollars salt cap and more. Bloomberg asked 172 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 3: about the salt cap that he's fighting to maintain. Here's 173 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 3: part of that conversation, crossing the. 174 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 8: Grand canyon on a piece of gentle flaws. Okay, the 175 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 8: equilibrium that we reached here, it took quite a bit 176 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 8: of time to get to where we are, and you 177 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 8: can't load me up on either side. And if you 178 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 8: go and slash the salt cap that we negotiated carefully 179 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 8: for over a year, it's going to make it very 180 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 8: difficult for me to deliver the necessary number of votes. 181 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 6: All right. 182 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 5: That was House a speaker Mike Johnson speaking with Bloomberg earlier. 183 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 6: We're going to get the. 184 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 5: Latest on this big, beautiful tax bill that again pasted 185 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 5: in House. It is now being negotiated in the Senate. 186 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 6: A couple of sticking points, including that salting. 187 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 5: I thought that was just a Matt Miller issue, but 188 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 5: apparently it's a big deal for a lot of senators 189 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 5: and a lot of representatives. Nathan Deane joints as senior 190 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 5: policy analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. Nathan, what are the outstanding 191 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 5: issues that you believe the Senate is grappling with now 192 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 5: and do you expect them to be resolved? 193 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 9: So, you know, I think the two big issues that 194 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 9: are actually going on at the moment in the Senate 195 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 9: is on the deficit, reduction side this idea, is it 196 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 9: going to increase the deficit as a result? Are the 197 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 9: elon musks? And for those members in the Senate Senator 198 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 9: Mike Lee and Senator Ram Paull and Senator Ron Johnson, 199 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 9: are they going to continue to push for a bill 200 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 9: that ultimately tries to decrease the deficit aka, you know, 201 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 9: probably not put out as much in terms of permanent 202 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 9: tax cuts. The other thing going on is, you know, 203 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 9: on the how to pay for it is the Medicaid 204 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 9: work requirements. Because those moderates in the Senate, and you know, 205 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 9: think of Senator Collins and Senator Murkowski are essentially trying 206 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 9: to push back some of what the House has already done. 207 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 9: Now we have two polarizing forces trying to push the 208 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 9: bill in a different direction, sort of challenging for Senator 209 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 9: John Thune here. So I think what happens is you 210 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 9: will see these negotiations continue to play out over the 211 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 9: next week, maybe the next week and a half or 212 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 9: two weeks, and then you'll get a clear picture of 213 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 9: where the Senate's going to go. But this bill does 214 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 9: have to change in order to get enough senators to 215 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 9: pass over and support it, and approval. 216 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: Okay, so what does salt really look like? Is it 217 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: going to be forty thousand? Is it going to be 218 00:10:58,720 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 3: lower what we think? 219 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 9: So I think it's going to be either forty thousand 220 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 9: or slightly lower than that, because I think what's going 221 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 9: to happen here is, Look, if I'm Representative Lawler, I 222 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 9: really enjoyed that interview this morning with Speaker Johnson because 223 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 9: he defended the cap and said, look, we negotiated this, 224 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 9: and it took a year, and the Salt Caucus in 225 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 9: the House does have a lot of power. They can say, look, 226 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 9: we're just not going to vote for it. If you 227 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 9: want to throw it back down to ten thousand, Senate, 228 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 9: feel free, I'm not going to vote for it, and 229 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 9: it's not going to pass. But this idea of it's 230 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 9: either going to be forty thousand or maybe slightly lower, 231 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 9: because then the Salt Caucus is in slightly a difficult 232 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 9: more difficult position because they did get something out of it. 233 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 9: So for those of you of you in New York 234 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 9: and New Jersey, I think you're going to get something. 235 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,359 Speaker 9: It's going to be around forty thousand or maybe. 236 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 6: Just slightly under that. 237 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 5: Nathan, you mentioned Elon Musky has come out really harshly 238 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 5: against this bill and on another other topics. How much 239 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 5: influence does he have now there is he's no longer 240 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 5: technically part of the Washington story. So this is one 241 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 5: of those. 242 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 9: Things where it's starting to brew into an issue. I 243 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 9: don't think it's an issue just yet. I mean, if 244 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 9: you looked at Speaker Johnson's interview, he defended what they 245 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 9: have been doing. And there's a lot of criticism on 246 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 9: the Congression the CBO at the moment in terms of 247 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 9: that two point four trillion dollar estimate of increase in 248 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 9: the deficit. So if you ask the politicians up on 249 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 9: Capitol Hill, I wouldn't say that there's really much there 250 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 9: there yet, but it could be coming because, like Elon 251 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 9: Musk said x yesterday, he's calling for individuals to call 252 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 9: their senator and call their congressman and say let's not 253 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 9: support this. And there is a little bit of a 254 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 9: group coming together. Senator Ran Paul Mike Lee, Ron Johnson. 255 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 9: You know, that's enough votes that potentially could derail this bill. 256 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 9: So if i'm Senator John Thune, I have to figure 257 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 9: out how to get some of those individuals on board 258 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 9: and the answer is, well, maybe these tax cuts are permanent, 259 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 9: maybe they just extended a certain amount of time, or 260 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 9: maybe this bill shrinks, or maybe the debt ceiling goes 261 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 9: from a five trillion dollar increase to a two trillion 262 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 9: dollar increase. There's areas of flexibility here for leadership, and 263 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 9: I think we're going to see that play out over 264 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 9: the next few weeks. So we still think this bill 265 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 9: is going to increase the deficit, but stay tuned because 266 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 9: it may not be what the CBO just scored yesterday. 267 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 3: I think I asked you this before, but this is 268 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 3: obviously what I'm interested in. And that's what happens to 269 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 3: a lot of the energy tax credits, the ITC from 270 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 3: the IRA and all the companies are kind of waiting 271 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 3: on tenderhooks for what is going to happen. What's the 272 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 3: indication that Republican senators are going to step up and 273 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 3: try and fight for these tax credits. 274 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 9: So we've heard through the grapevind that you know, there 275 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 9: are a lot of lobbyists uff on Capitol Hill right 276 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 9: now really pushing for this, and there are some receptive ears. 277 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 9: Senator Tom Tillis from North Carolina is one of those 278 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 9: individuals who's really focused on this now. I think you're 279 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 9: going to start seeing snippets of what the Senate is 280 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 9: thinking towards the end of this week, maybe the beginning 281 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 9: of next week in terms of those tax credits. And 282 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 9: we're telling our clients that, look, the House tax credits 283 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 9: were somewhat positive and then initially negative on the solar 284 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 9: industry in particular. And I think you are going to 285 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 9: see some moderate voices coming through when it comes to 286 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 9: the Inflation Reduction Act, because at the end of the day, 287 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 9: it's going to be very difficult for some of these Republicans, 288 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 9: say Senator Tom Till for example, that will vote to 289 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 9: gut the Inflation Reduction Act when the Inflation Reduction Act 290 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 9: is bring jobs and plants and you know, other types 291 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 9: of economic growth to their states. So I do think 292 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 9: you're going to see a modernization of what DAUS did, 293 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 9: and I think we'll see some of those details coming 294 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 9: out early next week. 295 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 5: I got a red headline crossing the Bloomberg Terminal. NATO 296 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 5: adopts military build up plans as part of new spending goals. 297 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 5: I want some more reporting on that, so some movement 298 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 5: there across the pond Nathan. President Trump quite successfully kind 299 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 5: of work the phones in the House to get passage 300 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 5: of the deal. It's a little bit different in the Senate, 301 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 5: where you know, these folks have six year terms. Here, 302 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 5: what's the expectation of what kind of influenced President Trump 303 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 5: can plain in this negotiation? 304 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 6: In the Senate, you hit it right. 305 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 9: On the head. I mean, obviously, with the House of Representatives, 306 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 9: they run every two years, and so the idea of 307 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 9: a primary threat is much more serious to them. 308 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 4: You know. 309 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 9: But when it comes to the Senate, I will say 310 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 9: is is that their primary goal is to make sure 311 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 9: that the tax extensions or sorry, the tax increases don't 312 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 9: happen by the end of the year. Senators know they 313 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 9: have to pass something. The question on the Senate side 314 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 9: is is that what else are we going to do 315 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 9: with this? So I think that President Trump will have 316 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 9: to take a different type of approach in working with 317 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 9: the Senate. One of those things like, look, this is 318 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 9: America First policy, and even though only one third of 319 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 9: the Senate will be running approximately next year, the Republicans 320 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 9: do want to remain control of both the House and 321 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 9: the Senate, and failure to adopt something like that could 322 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 9: put that at risk. So I do think President Trump 323 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 9: will have a little bit more hands on approach with 324 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 9: the Senate. Obviously, he's going to have to manage both 325 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 9: those who want to see the deficit decreased along with 326 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 9: the moderates who want to see how these paid for 327 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 9: us decreased. And I think they will be able to 328 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 9: come up with a solution. It's just going to take 329 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 9: a lot more work and he's going to have to 330 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 9: roll up his sleeves to do it, all. 331 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 2: Right, Nathan, really appreciate it. Thank you very much. 332 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: Nathan Dean joins us from Bloomberg Intelligence. He covers all 333 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 3: of policy there for Bloomberg Intelligence, that senior policy analy. 334 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 5: When we were down in DC, I did have a 335 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 5: little free time you were working. I saw some We 336 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 5: went to Lincoln. I'm one of all the cool stuff. 337 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 6: I had no even thought of coming. I'm going to 338 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 6: go with Capitol Hill and see my representatives. 339 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 5: Oh god, So I got much more inspiration from going 340 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 5: to the Lincoln Memorial. But you go to Lincoln Memorial, 341 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 5: you read the Gettysburg Address, and then you read his 342 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,359 Speaker 5: speech for the second inauguration. 343 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 6: It just takes your breath away. 344 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: It really does. 345 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 6: It's just amazing. 346 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 347 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android 348 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 349 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 350 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 3: So the news that came out on Tuesday was that 351 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 3: Meta and Constellation Energy met what they call a virtual 352 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: Purchase power agreement. So it's basically an investment to secure 353 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 3: clean energy from Constellation. But there are lots of different 354 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 3: nuances to that, but not the only one out there today. 355 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 3: We also learned that well back in December, Meta Platforms 356 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 3: also announced a deal to buy green credits from four 357 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 3: large US solar energy projects, and the owner of that 358 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 3: project joins US now. Michael Polski is founder and CEO 359 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 3: of Inventergy, and in Energy is one of the biggest 360 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: largest independent power producers in the United States, not gas plans, solar, onshore, 361 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 3: offshore wind storage as well as transmission. Really has his 362 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 3: pulse on the market right now. Good to see you, Michael, 363 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 3: thanks for coming in. 364 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 10: Thank you. And we have to add natural guests as well. 365 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 3: Yes, no, I said that, I said natural, gay I 366 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: did plant so you have all that clean stuff. How 367 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 3: hard is it to reach these agreements with the hyperscalers 368 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 3: right now? 369 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 2: What are those conversations like? 370 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 10: You know, obviously you know these are large scale agreements, 371 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 10: so it's not easy to just walk in and these 372 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 10: are those big deals. So first of all, we have 373 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 10: to make sure that both sides so that we agree 374 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 10: on that. You know, suppliers have sufficient supplies and buyer 375 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 10: satisfied by requirements is what is also important that certain 376 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 10: reliability standards are being mad and most importantly, the price 377 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 10: and has to be appropriate for a buyer to agree 378 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 10: to buy this. 379 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 5: Another headline crossing the Bloomberg terminal, President g President Trump 380 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 5: agreed to start new round of talks ASAPTS. According to 381 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 5: CCTV will bring you continued reporting on that, Michael, is 382 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 5: the Trump administration making your business, the development of your business, 383 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 5: the expansion of your business easier, more difficult, no roled impact. 384 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 6: Yet, what have you seen? 385 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 10: Clearly the administration send very right sign. President announced energy emergency, 386 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 10: which I believe there is an energy emergency because we 387 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 10: have to build. There is an increased demand and we 388 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 10: have to build more supplies and more supplies. We have 389 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 10: to build if we build like we used to do 390 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 10: it, it would take too long. So it's really an emergency. 391 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 10: So we tried to In energy, we tried to build 392 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 10: as much supply as possible. What is also very important, 393 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 10: not just supply, but transmission. I mean, one of one 394 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 10: of our biggest developments right now and what we believe 395 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 10: is critical to meet sort of this emergency is to 396 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 10: build more transmission lines. I always like to say that, 397 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 10: you know, if we build more trucks without roads, we're 398 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 10: not going to deliver goods. So in order for electrons 399 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 10: to move, we need transmission lines. And if we have 400 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 10: transmission then we can shorten time to interconnect facility. We 401 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 10: have to be able to move power from where it's 402 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 10: produced to where it's used, and I think we can. 403 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 10: We can really build infrastructure a lot faster here and 404 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 10: with a lot more impact. 405 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 3: I mean, to your point, go GOLDMN. Sachs had it 406 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 3: out today talking about how power is already tight in 407 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 3: the Northeast. There was a report out yesterday that said 408 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 3: the development of data centers to the largest US grid 409 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 3: and PGM is raising costs by almost ten billion because 410 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 3: we just can't build it out fast enough. What's the 411 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 3: biggest hurdle to reimagining transmission. 412 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 10: I think, I think there are multiple. One is obviously 413 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 10: permitting because it takes forever permit and. 414 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: Supposedly that's all going to be fixed. Now has that 415 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 2: all been fixed? 416 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 10: I mean it's in a process. Obviously there are there 417 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 10: are good announcements. We have to see as a business, 418 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 10: we have to see how it's going to be im implemented, 419 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 10: because implementation is very important. But it's not just permitting. 420 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 10: I think transmission has to be appropriately paid for and 421 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 10: right now, particularly for a long distance transmission, we don't 422 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 10: have a methodology in this country how to pay for transmission. 423 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 10: So there is a lot of you know, intention to 424 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 10: build and the only really transmission being built the one 425 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 10: that recovered by utilities or rtos through the rate pay 426 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 10: You know, the moment you touch something that is not 427 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 10: typically normal and it's very difficult. So we have to 428 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 10: really come up with appropriate methodology to value transmission and 429 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 10: allocate the cost of transmission. I think, in my opinion 430 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 10: for this administration for Department of Energy, that should be 431 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 10: really one of the most important tasks to build our infrastructure. 432 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: I did read the book here it is. 433 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 5: I didn't read the book The Grid, So it took 434 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 5: me a whole summer to get through it, and it 435 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 5: was not an easy read. 436 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 6: But I think I have some understanding of it. 437 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 5: What's your sense overall of the power grid in the 438 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 5: United States? 439 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 6: How good is it? How bad is it? How much 440 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 6: investment does it need? 441 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 10: You know, obviously you know there are there are a 442 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 10: lot of discussions about grade right now the world being 443 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 10: used like antiquated or not reliable, which is which is 444 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 10: true in many ways because most of our grid has 445 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 10: been built thirty forty years ago, and there are a 446 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 10: lot of change since then. I mean, for example, we 447 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 10: used to have very centralized way of generator electricity from 448 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 10: very large coal nuclear you know, sometimes gas power plants. 449 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 10: Now we have a lot more decentralized generation. Number one. 450 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 10: Another issue is that we have our weather pattern has changed. 451 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 10: I mean, if now we have a lot more you 452 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 10: know in claiming weather, we have ice storms, what we've 453 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 10: seen in Texas, we have we have floods, we have 454 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 10: other weather events, which shows that generation itself is susceptible. 455 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 10: We cannot make one hundred percent sort of guaranteed generations. 456 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 10: So how to deal with this we have to create 457 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 10: connect like I like to call larger geography, so power 458 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 10: can move from here to there, just like corons. Right, 459 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 10: if we only go from here to there on one 460 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 10: road and that's something happened with that road and we 461 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 10: cannot avoid that, then all the traffic will be stopped 462 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 10: for days. We can avoid this, so we we have 463 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 10: to have transmissions. 464 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 2: So it based on that. You said the sort of 465 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: financing this transmission is key. How would that work? I 466 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 2: get it for. 467 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 3: The you know, regulated utilities, but if you want a 468 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 3: transmission line across multiple states, how could the financing work 469 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 3: to make sense for an dependent player like you? 470 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 10: This is a fundamental problem here, right. We know we 471 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 10: in the United States we talk about the reliability, we 472 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 10: talk about national security. But for example, we develop in 473 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 10: large transmission line and which dramatically increase reliability. But then 474 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 10: you go to the rtos like MISO and ask them 475 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 10: to value reliability and they just don't value this because 476 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 10: neither they know how to do it or they simply 477 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 10: don't want to do it. So this is a fundamental 478 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 10: problem that you know when you have when you build transmission. 479 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 10: For example, in our case, Grain Belt Express, it's eleven 480 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 10: billion dollar project. We have to have revenues as in 481 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 10: order to finance this, and if nobody wants to pay 482 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 10: for anything, it's really hard. So I think it's it 483 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 10: should be a priority for the government to really establish 484 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 10: revenue streams for transmission. 485 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: Well, it was really great to get this perspective. I 486 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 3: love this conversation. Please come back on. Michael Polski is 487 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: founder and CEO of in Energy, joining us on the 488 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 3: issues of here in the United States. 489 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 490 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each 491 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 492 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 493 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 494 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: and always on the Bloomberg terminal.