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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 1: I never told you protection of iHeart radio and today

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Speaker 1: we're taking a bit of a break. It wasn't intentional

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Speaker 1: from the dark news of the day, uh, to talk

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Speaker 1: about mountaineering and not to say that we aren't going

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Speaker 1: to talk about some dark things. UM, so I guess

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Speaker 1: this is your content morning. I think it's nothing major,

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Speaker 1: but we are going to be talking about death in mountaineering. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so this kind of came about because I recently

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Speaker 1: went down a mountaineering rabbit hole because of a free

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Speaker 1: Paramount Plus trial. I could go into the details, I won't,

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Speaker 1: but basically I ended up watching talcumentaries about mountaineering. I

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Speaker 1: have so many mountaineering facts. I'm very surprised I did

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Speaker 1: not bombard you with them the last time we hung out,

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Speaker 1: because I've the last few times I've been out with

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Speaker 1: people and I've had a couple of drinks, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: do you know about the death Zone? It's it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Um BT Doves Paramount Bluss is not a sponsor from

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Speaker 1: They're not currently not currently but hey, Paramount, I need

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Speaker 1: a subscription, so if you want to well, that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm such a cheap skate. When I get the free trial,

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Speaker 1: I watched things I would never watch otherwise, and this

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Speaker 1: is how this happened. I wouldn't have watched these documenties otherwise.

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Speaker 1: I did enjoy them, clearly. I mean, yeah, you're like,

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Speaker 1: guess what we're gonna do an episode of mountain And

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, here we gots like have you

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Speaker 1: heard about the death? And you're like what you did

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Speaker 1: not ask me that? Yes, but you were surprised when

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Speaker 1: I told you that I've been on this mountaineering rabbit.

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Speaker 1: I'm not as surprised because your mind is unique and

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Speaker 1: likes to go down mountains. Sure like to go down mountains.

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Speaker 1: My mind is unique, thank you. And I actually have

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Speaker 1: been mountaineering, um, not in anything like this that we're

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Speaker 1: specifically going to talk about, but I have climbed. I

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Speaker 1: have had to deal with climbization and altitude poisoning. Actually,

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Speaker 1: so of course it's horrible, don't recommend it. But I

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Speaker 1: watched these documentaries and I couldn't stop thinking about the

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Speaker 1: mindset of climbing a mountain when the death rate is

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Speaker 1: one four, which is what it is for K two

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Speaker 1: I think, oh, look my mountaineering facts, they're coming to

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Speaker 1: use we go. However, I do want to point out

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Speaker 1: because a lot of mountaineers I really don't want to

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Speaker 1: do you injice, if you're listening, say that like statistics

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Speaker 1: numbers wise, and we can argue about like the mindset specifically,

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Speaker 1: but you're actually more likely to die in to corre accident.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I think that's more of a numbers game

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Speaker 1: than anyway I'm getting. I'm I'm already going off trail um.

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Speaker 1: When asked about like, why would you I'm Mount Everest,

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Speaker 1: famous British britishman George Lee Mallory, who is one of

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Speaker 1: the first to summit, if not the first to summit

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Speaker 1: Mount Everest, said because it's there and so here we are,

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Speaker 1: here we are. Really that's a lot of people like

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Speaker 1: really have this level of seeing it and like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I want because it's not it's dangerous, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: so like incredibly hard to train. People don't understand all

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Speaker 1: of that, and it seems doable. So that's what I'm

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Speaker 1: going to climb my Mount Everest, or I'm going to

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Speaker 1: climb Machu Picchu, like all of these amazing destinations without

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Speaker 1: understanding the true like behind the scenes of it. Just

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Speaker 1: doing the a T trail, the Appalachian Trail is pretty difficult,

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Speaker 1: but it's not the level as you know again Mount Everest,

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Speaker 1: Machupo like that. There's a whole different level mindset. But

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Speaker 1: it seems attainable because if you can walk. For those

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Speaker 1: who are able body enough to walk or even access

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Speaker 1: a trail, it seems like this could be something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: have you ever thought about it? I think I had

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Speaker 1: actually said I was going to climb something. I forgot

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Speaker 1: which one it is. I'm not sure it wasn't Everest

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Speaker 1: because I was like, I know better than that, but

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Speaker 1: because I also love hiking and a long going hot

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Speaker 1: Like again, this is one of the things, like I

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Speaker 1: could walk, sure, so let me try to do this.

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Speaker 1: I love hiking, I love seeing great views, and I

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Speaker 1: don't mind backpacking, so let's try this because I can

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Speaker 1: definitely can't rock climb. You know, well, I thought about skydiving,

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Speaker 1: but that seems even more perilous in my head, like

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Speaker 1: all of that. So I'm sure I have. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of the old like mid life crisis. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to climb on top of the mountain. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I've thought about it, but never seriously, um

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Speaker 1: or at least Everest, because I did do whatever. I

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Speaker 1: can't even remember that mountain's name, but I had pictures

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Speaker 1: and it looks great. Um, but I don't think I

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Speaker 1: ever seriously considered it. And that's a prizes a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, and I tell them because I guess I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of like I'm making like a finger gun motion.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, it's finger guns. Excuse you.

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Speaker 1: Um No, She's so important and we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about We're going to talk about a lot of accessibility issues,

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Speaker 1: and of course we're gonna keep this intersectional as we

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Speaker 1: want to do. Uh. And because of that, like I know,

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Speaker 1: people get really riled up about this. So I'm going

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Speaker 1: to start with a lot of disclaimers. Okay, UM, So

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Speaker 1: we are not going to really touch on the environmental

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Speaker 1: impacts and the harm that the commercialization of mountaineering has done,

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Speaker 1: but we do want to acknowledge that that is a

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Speaker 1: big part of the conversation and it should be. And

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Speaker 1: also never ever ever want to undervalue the work of

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Speaker 1: the sherpas and high altitude porters. Who honestly make it

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Speaker 1: possible for most folks in this commercialization space and have

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Speaker 1: resterio lives and sometimes died a specially when it comes

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Speaker 1: to yes this capitalizing climbing of mountains and government policies

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Speaker 1: that place profits over safety, but also the systems of

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Speaker 1: poverty that might make that an option considered in the

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Speaker 1: first place. This is not that podcast that does exist,

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Speaker 1: because I have listened to it, I have watched it,

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Speaker 1: and I think that is incredibly important part of all

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Speaker 1: this UM and that's why we had to mention it

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Speaker 1: at the top, even though that's not really what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about today. UM also want to mention plenty of

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Speaker 1: indigenous peoples and regions with these mountains regularly transverse high altitudes.

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Speaker 1: Maybe not summiting, but worth mentioning, because a lot of

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Speaker 1: the people were talking about are kind of like getting

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Speaker 1: to the top, taking the picture going down when other

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Speaker 1: people might be doing it all the time, or like

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Speaker 1: something close. I mean, one of the things that I've

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Speaker 1: been seeing on social media, slash tektok is definitely a

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Speaker 1: lot of Native Hawaiian's being like, please stop doing this.

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Speaker 1: You don't know what you're doing, and you're causing dangers

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Speaker 1: and then becoming a whole risk and then having a

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Speaker 1: people look like enemies for telling you not to do this,

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Speaker 1: and then also the enemies when we're like, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to risk our lives because you did something that

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Speaker 1: we told you not to do. Yes, yes, I mean

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Speaker 1: with everything we talked about, I would just encourage everyone

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Speaker 1: to do your research and to be respectful and yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a safety question in this, and you should take

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Speaker 1: that very seriously because other people's lives and well beings

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Speaker 1: are on the line other than yours. Another thing worth

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Speaker 1: mentioning mountaineering is oftentimes but not always, uh extremely inaccessible

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Speaker 1: in terms of price of equipment and of travel. So

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Speaker 1: that's something. And also a lot of the stories about

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Speaker 1: mountaineering and especially around tragedy in these situations are a

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Speaker 1: bit muddled for a number of reasons, and we are

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Speaker 1: going to talk about one specific case, um but so

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Speaker 1: just keep that in mind and final disclaimer, we are

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Speaker 1: not experts, and please do not yell at as I

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Speaker 1: know commercial climbing really gets people angry, and I get it.

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Speaker 1: We're doing more of a history of women who have

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Speaker 1: climbed mountains and also occurrent I'll look at what's going

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Speaker 1: on right now. And also we are sticking to basic

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Speaker 1: mountaineering facts when it comes to the women we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: So it could be they have something less than savory

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Speaker 1: in their past. It could be they're worth talking about more.

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Speaker 1: And if you know more about that, please let us know,

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Speaker 1: because clearly I'm eager for mountaineering facts. I'm like just

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Speaker 1: ready to receive them. He's ready for trivia. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: I am, I am, I am, I am all right.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with the definition. What is mountaineering exactly? Well, actually, uh,

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Speaker 1: it is not as simple as you think and is

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Speaker 1: up for debate. Most seem to agree that it typically

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Speaker 1: involves traversing snow and possibly ice and glaciers to reach

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Speaker 1: a summit, which is called summiting. Others define it as

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Speaker 1: scaling a mountains. Sometimes rock climbing does get roped into it.

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Speaker 1: I think we're more specifically talking about summiting, ice, snow,

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Speaker 1: glaciers involved, though so would Tom cruiseby a mountaineer the

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Speaker 1: question of the podcast. I wouldn't love if I became

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Speaker 1: like you know, on trivia teams you have like your

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Speaker 1: sports person, you're like music person. I would love I

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Speaker 1: bet he is. Yes, I well, I just wondered because

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Speaker 1: I just remember that picture of him like hanging from

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Speaker 1: the edge, and I know that that's free climbing essentially,

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Speaker 1: but I'm guessing it's probably roped up into this. Again.

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Speaker 1: People need to be trained. I cannot have design this enough.

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Speaker 1: People really do things on a silly idea and not

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Speaker 1: restarting it heavily. Please don't do this. Uh So. Of course,

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Speaker 1: numbers are sort of hard to track, but according to

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Speaker 1: some data from the Outdoor Industry Association, they're about two

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Speaker 1: million timbers in the US. Um and as far as women,

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Speaker 1: we couldn't find a general number, but data from specific

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Speaker 1: mountains indicates it ranges from ten but has been on

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Speaker 1: the rise. Yes. Uh. And since the first known summit

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Speaker 1: of Everest in nineteen fifty three, only about eight percent

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Speaker 1: of those who have summited Everest have been women. Many

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Speaker 1: women have reported misogyny and getting questioned at every turn.

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Speaker 1: And I will say, researching this, I found a lot

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Speaker 1: of troubling. I have an anxiety around articles that go

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Speaker 1: to a strictly biological sense why things are the way

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Speaker 1: they are. That makes me really, that makes me really nervous. Um.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot about this. A lot of them

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Speaker 1: say women and men evolved equally to be able to

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Speaker 1: summit mountains. Um. And there were scientific articles about that,

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Speaker 1: but I just felt really uncomfortable talking about it, to

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Speaker 1: be honest. But they do it right, Okay, So let's

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Speaker 1: get into some history. And this one is kind of

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Speaker 1: a mess. I'm going to be straight forward. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of a mess. But I think we've we've got it

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Speaker 1: wrangled up where it's it's going to be interesting. It's

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Speaker 1: got quite a few intersecting threads. Um. So let's start

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Speaker 1: with alpine mountaineering, which really took off during the nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: and the first men to complete these climbs captured the attention,

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Speaker 1: awe and ire of the public of these alpine mountaineering.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps I don't need to say it, but you know,

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Speaker 1: climbing mountains in the Alps. Uh. Women they also climbed

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Speaker 1: these peaks, though un lesser numbers, but with perhaps even

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Speaker 1: more ire mm hmmmm. So for a long time throughout history,

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Speaker 1: mountaineering has been traditionally and firmly in the domain of men.

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Speaker 1: In fact, a f mumory of Victorian mountaineer claimed that

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Speaker 1: mountains have three phases. They go through the inaccessible peak,

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Speaker 1: the most difficult ascent in the Alps, and a quote

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Speaker 1: an easy day for a lady sing that ones a

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Speaker 1: woman climbs it, anybody can do it in the mountain

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Speaker 1: looses it's allure and it's no longer worthwhile. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: But Mummery himself knew that women could climb. He commented

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Speaker 1: on Lily Bristow's climb of grip Pon. Lucy Walker climbed

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Speaker 1: at the matter Horn in eighteen seventy one, only six

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Speaker 1: years after a man made the first ascent. Mumory talked

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Speaker 1: about that too, and his own wife, Mary, was a

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Speaker 1: skilled climber. Together they climbed two feld scruts during a

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Speaker 1: thunder storm and something of a mountaining as I think

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Speaker 1: I'd made that up, but now we're saying it mountaining legend.

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Speaker 1: But in his mind, her participation lessened that accomplishment and

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Speaker 1: the mountain itself. If a woman can do it, he thought,

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Speaker 1: can't anybody um so therefore useless and as we've discussed

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Speaker 1: in multiple episodes, including our look at Women in the Olympics,

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Speaker 1: Jim Timidation and a history of women exercising The early

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Speaker 1: twentieth century is when younger, middle class, typically white women

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Speaker 1: started playing certain sports, usually ones where it was believed

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Speaker 1: it was possible to remain ladylike while playing them a

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Speaker 1: k A. You won't sweat and you can wear like

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Speaker 1: a skirt um. As this was happening, male explorers were

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Speaker 1: going to Antarctica and planning to summit Everest. Women and

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Speaker 1: young girls not and frequently wrote to these explorers asking

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Speaker 1: to join them on their endeavors. Women in this realm

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Speaker 1: were often well off and or unmarried, and or ill

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Speaker 1: that whole mountain air saying might go get some mountain

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Speaker 1: air um. They were often in their thirties and forties

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Speaker 1: when they got their start, and many were husband and

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Speaker 1: white teams, but a lot were sister teams are our

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Speaker 1: friend teams. Women who did dare to climb mountains with

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Speaker 1: the men often caused somewhat of an uproar. For instance,

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Speaker 1: when Bristow shared a tent with male climbers, people who

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Speaker 1: knew her raised their eyebrows. On the other hand, when

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Speaker 1: Gertrude Bell helped rescue some of her fellow male climbers,

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Speaker 1: she was raised by the guide and others in the group.

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Speaker 1: Women's clothing was still policed. Some women climbed in skirts,

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Speaker 1: while others made news by climbing in hants. Wearing a

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Speaker 1: skirt to climb was pretty much always unsafe, so like

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Speaker 1: while trying to summit the matter Horn with her father

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Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty seven, Felicitate Carrel's skirts kept catching dangerously

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Speaker 1: in the wind until eventually she could go no further.

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Speaker 1: The matter Horns Cole Felicite is named for her. Many

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Speaker 1: women would wear a dress from the hotel and then

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Speaker 1: take it off at the bottom of the mountain to

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Speaker 1: make climbing easier and safer, or some variation of that,

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Speaker 1: like maybe they would take it off once they got

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Speaker 1: started climbing. Whatever. A climber named Mrs Audrey Leblonde or

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Speaker 1: Lizzie Leblonde. What's had to return to a summit when

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Speaker 1: on the descent they realized she realized she'd left her

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Speaker 1: skirt there, so they'd go back up. Oh man, those

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Speaker 1: damn scarves, the chafing alone alone? Yeah no, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Um So, when the Alpine Club was founded in eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifty seven, they did not allow women as members. Surprise.

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Speaker 1: In response, women created the Ladies Alpine Club in nineteen

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Speaker 1: oh seven, Leblon served as the first president. Congratulations. And

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Speaker 1: some did view mountaineering as somewhat of a feminist thing,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting. Some some viewed it as a feminist

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Speaker 1: thing like women can climb outainste but others viewed it

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Speaker 1: as like, look at those men climbing their mountains, silly.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting. Um, So we did want to talk about

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Speaker 1: some famous women mountaineers and some famous incidents involving women mountaineers. Again,

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Speaker 1: this is really abbreviated and short, so if you are interested,

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Speaker 1: I'm like their fellow interested mountaineering people out there, Uh,

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Speaker 1: please let us know and we can do a whole

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Speaker 1: episode on it. And we have mentioned some already, but

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Speaker 1: we wanted to go over a few more. One is

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Speaker 1: Fannie Bullock Workman, who was the first woman to ascend

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Speaker 1: many peaks in the Himalayas man or woman. In nineteen twelve,

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Speaker 1: Bullock Workman was photographed in the Himalayas holding a sign

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Speaker 1: that read votes for women. And she had a nemesis

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Speaker 1: who I didn't include, who is also feminist, but they

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Speaker 1: were nemessies, so that's interesting. And then there's Miriam O'Brien

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Speaker 1: After O'Brien was told she needed a man to show

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Speaker 1: her where summit was, she was infuriated and wrote, the

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Speaker 1: one who goes up first on the rope has even

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Speaker 1: more fun as he solves the immediate problems of technique, tactics,

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Speaker 1: and strategy as they occur. I saw no reason why women,

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Speaker 1: ipso facto, should be incapable of leading a good climb.

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Speaker 1: They had, as a matter of fact, already done so

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Speaker 1: on some few scattered occasions. But why not make it

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Speaker 1: a regular thing on the usual climes of the day.

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Speaker 1: I decided to try some climbs not only guideless, but manless.

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Speaker 1: By the nineteen twenties, she followed up on this promise.

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Speaker 1: She and other women without the aid of men, pleaded

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Speaker 1: many summits and many first She even had an essay

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Speaker 1: published in addition of National Geographic titled Manless Alpine Climbing,

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Speaker 1: which is actually where that quote is from. Do like

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Speaker 1: a theatrical reading of this? You're speaking my language, Smith,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying manless alpine climbing should be a reading

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Speaker 1: for us, like that's a great user, so good, so good.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah. So then there's also Alma Wagin Wagan wagin

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Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna say wagon, okay, And if someone

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Speaker 1: knows they're going to correct me, I know they will,

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Speaker 1: and I really want you to. Also. Fun fact, my

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Speaker 1: great grandmother's name was Alma anyway, so she often gets

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Speaker 1: the credit as the first woman mountain guide in North America.

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Speaker 1: In thee she said, quote, there were places to climb,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to teach other women the joy of climbing. Yes, yes, um.

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Speaker 1: And then we have Arlene bloom bloom Let, the first

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Speaker 1: all women is on Annapurna. That was also the first

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Speaker 1: successful American attempt in nineteen seventy eight. Oh, that's pretty recent.

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Speaker 1: She was the first woman out of the US to

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Speaker 1: try her hand at climbing Mount Everest. And she was

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Speaker 1: a member of the first all women team to summit

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Speaker 1: the Nali. Yes, and my mountaineering fact. Annapurna, I believe

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Speaker 1: has been an is still the most dangerous mountain summit.

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Speaker 1: It has the highest death rate, so it's pretty easy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of this is kind of the darker part

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about. Um, some death. I did

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Speaker 1: want to include it because I hadn't heard about it,

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Speaker 1: and that was sort of the point the article I

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Speaker 1: was reading was making was like, this was a huge tragedy,

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Speaker 1: but because of a couple of political things, but also

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Speaker 1: because they were women, we don't hear about it. The

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Speaker 1: whole team was women. Um So, just for a warning.

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Speaker 1: In nine two, Elvira Chadava organized the first all women's

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Speaker 1: climb of a seven thousand meter peak, and this was

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Speaker 1: not by far her last time contributing to mountaineering history

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Speaker 1: or her first time, um so. In June nineteen and

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Speaker 1: seventy climbers from several different countries came together in a

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Speaker 1: mountaineering camp in the Pamir Mountains in the USSR but

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Speaker 1: is now the border of Tajikistan and Kurdistan, A many

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Speaker 1: with a goal of climbing the over seven thousand meter

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Speaker 1: peak Lenin. This was a part of a USSR hosted

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Speaker 1: international events and many of the organizers were unsure about

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Speaker 1: including women, but felt like having zero women wouldn't look

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Speaker 1: good for them. Um It was meant to foster a

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Speaker 1: healthier relationship between the US and the USSR and to

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Speaker 1: promote mountaineering, especially to younger people. Most of the climbers

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Speaker 1: were going to ascend or hope to ascend the country's

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Speaker 1: second highest peak, uh Win, an earthquake, struck shaken and

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Speaker 1: more ways than one. I did not mean to make

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Speaker 1: that fun. After the earthquake, American climber Molly Higgins reported

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Speaker 1: turning a corner and seeing a Russian woman shad of

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Speaker 1: a bossing around four Russian men. She turned to Higgins

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Speaker 1: and said, I am a virus chadevea. I am master

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Speaker 1: of sport. What are you? And master of sport was

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Speaker 1: a top credential in USSR sport and rarely obtained by

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Speaker 1: women at the time. Higgins later said, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was great. I didn't want to be bossy like that,

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Speaker 1: but here was a woman who really was capable. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be like her, that strong and that experienced.

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Speaker 1: She was a heroine right there. By many accounts, the

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Speaker 1: women of this expedition generally stayed on the Soviet side

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Speaker 1: of the camp, helped each other out. They practiced, they

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Speaker 1: sang songs, they talked, they laughed, all while taking what

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Speaker 1: they were doing very very seriously. They didn't really argue

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Speaker 1: our fight with each other. Shadowa wrote, you men have

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Speaker 1: never dreamed of such openness. Another American who we just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: Arlene blum Um, remembers being welcomed by Chadovea after some

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Speaker 1: politics that had her feeling left out of the America

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Speaker 1: Can crew. Basically they were like, you're not experienced enough

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Speaker 1: to be here. You go over there, And Chadovea informed

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Speaker 1: Blum that the mail climbers didn't believe a woman's team

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Speaker 1: could ever summit Pete Lennon, but that was Chadovey's goal.

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Speaker 1: Her plan was to take a team of eight women

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Speaker 1: to traverse the peak, the first to do so, no

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Speaker 1: mata the gender and bio vac, which is basically extreme

359
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: temporary camping on the top peak overnight. But of course

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Speaker 1: the weather was out of air control, the worst storm

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Speaker 1: in a quarter decade rage, causing dangerous avalanche conditions, many

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Speaker 1: of which would go on to kill several climbers. The

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00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: day before the storm hit, organizers warned that serious weather

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Speaker 1: conditions were impending and they advised everyone to descend. The

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Speaker 1: group of Russian women led by Shadowya were witnessed around

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Speaker 1: four dred feet from the summits about one and they

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Speaker 1: sent a message that they had in fact some of it,

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Speaker 1: so they did the thing Um. The following day, they

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Speaker 1: radioed again in forming organizers one of whom was Chatove's husband,

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Speaker 1: of the issues that they were having. Wins of seventy

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Speaker 1: eighty miles per hour temperatures is slow as negative body

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Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit and a foot of snow made a visibility

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Speaker 1: virtually impossible. Shadowya reported that one of the women was

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Speaker 1: sick and the other unwell. She was advised to descend

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Speaker 1: and if necessary, leave the sick women behind. As they

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Speaker 1: started to descend, one of the women would tragically die,

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Speaker 1: allegedly freezing to death as she held the rope for

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Speaker 1: others to climb down. The survivors made it a few

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Speaker 1: hundred feet before setting up tints. That night, or perhaps

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Speaker 1: the next, the two sick women died. The winds blew

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Speaker 1: away much of their equipment, and the five surviving women

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Speaker 1: to shelter in a tent without poles and only three

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Speaker 1: sleeping bags. The next morning, some climbers who overheard the

384
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: trouble the Russians were in tried to help, but weren't

385
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Speaker 1: able to get far because of the weather. Chatovea informed

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Speaker 1: organizers that three more of the women were sick and

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Speaker 1: they could not them. After everything they've been through together

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Speaker 1: and what they've done for each other. A few hours later,

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Speaker 1: she messaged, it is very sad here where it was

390
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Speaker 1: once so beautiful. And within a few more hours one

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Speaker 1: of the women had died, and Shadowy radioed they're all

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Speaker 1: gone now. That last asked when will we see the

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Speaker 1: flowers again? Two others earlier asked about their children. Now

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Speaker 1: it is no use. A few hours later, we are sorry,

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Speaker 1: we have failed you. We tried so hard. Now we

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00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: are so cold. And a few hours later another of

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00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: the women had died, and then another Shadowya told organizers

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Speaker 1: she was too weak to hold down the transmit button anymore,

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Speaker 1: and the final message came later from the remaining climber, Galinauk.

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Speaker 1: Now we are too Now we will all die. We

401
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Speaker 1: are very sorry. We tried but we could not. Please

402
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 1: forgive us. We love you, goodbye. When the weather cleared,

403
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: the American team started to ascend towards the peak. None

404
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: the wiser Higgins successfully summited, as did another American woman,

405
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Speaker 1: the respected mountaineer Marty Hoey, who would later die on

406
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Speaker 1: everest in an attempt to become the first woman to

407
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Speaker 1: summit in Nino. They, among other climbers that summited, found

408
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Speaker 1: the bodies of the Russian women. In total, thirteen died,

409
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Speaker 1: including the eight women on that team. Uh. There were

410
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Speaker 1: many reasons for this tragedy. One Higgins has suggested is

411
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: they were the test group. They felt they needed to

412
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Speaker 1: do it to uphold the standard of the women's team.

413
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Speaker 1: And Blom said the women were so very loyal to

414
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: each other they stayed together until the end. So again,

415
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: the article was making the point like, this is a

416
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Speaker 1: pretty serious tragedy um in mountaineering history, and a lot

417
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Speaker 1: of the tragedies that people can name and and in

418
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: successes people can name are about men, and this one

419
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: has sort of been buried and people don't know about it.

420
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Speaker 1: But it was not all women's team, and they were

421
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Speaker 1: the first to summit um. But they didn't. I didn't

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Speaker 1: survive it. Oh goodness. Blum didn't go with them then, No,

423
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: she was on Yeah, this was an all Russian team.

424
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: Blum was on the American. She wanted to go with them,

425
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: but because of the like politics of it, they wanted

426
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: it to be an all ussr team. Yeah, that's really tragic.

427
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: I feel like though there's definitely been movies on all

428
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: male teams, or at least most of the male teams

429
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: who have died, um, and you are horror stories and

430
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: then they're kind of elevated to like hero status sometimes. Yeah,

431
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: that's what I'm talking about. I've watched them so like

432
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: at this point, you know, this is really sad they

433
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: didn't make it, and then the loyalty they had to

434
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: each other. It could have been a movie. I feel

435
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: like this has been a nineties movie. I feel I mean,

436
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: maybe it exists, let us know. I don't think, because

437
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: the whole point in the article was like, how the

438
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: hell we don't talk about this? Right? Of course that

439
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with like at that point,

440
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: the USS are being uh, kind of the enemy of

441
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: the state. I mean today we're not standing with Russia.

442
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: So it's kind of that level, I'm sure, which we

443
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: don't know how much politics plays into it. And I

444
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: wonder how much, Yeah, the USS our history sticks with

445
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: the within Russia, like the former Soviet all of that area.

446
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: How much do they know do they actually know a

447
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: lot of it? And we just we don't know a

448
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: lot of it, which happens a lot when it comes

449
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: to international stuff. But moving on to the less sad,

450
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: less sad historical context, Um, we have Junko Tabe, who

451
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: became the first member to summit Everest in nineteen seventy

452
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: five as part of an all women team, which is awesome. UM.

453
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: And then we have Alison Hargreaves, who was recognized as

454
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: the first person to solo climb all six of the

455
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: Great and Northern faces of the Alps and is credited

456
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: with climbing every solo without oxygen or the support of

457
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: a sharpa. UM. I feel like without the oxygen thing,

458
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: that's a huge invad happen. I have like I could

459
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: go if this is a different podcast, I'll be talking

460
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: about that. I'd be talking about the dangers you're descending.

461
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: I'll be talking about ice clay shoes, like I'm telling you.

462
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: I just I feel like I get I get the

463
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: like notoriety to it, but I'm like, is that necessary?

464
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: Is that? Okay? Alright, alright, alright, I don't I'm not

465
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: a mountaineer. There's a whole lot of things I don't know. Obviously,

466
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: I am a mirror amateur hiker at best, probably just

467
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: a walker. I don't know. So she died on K two,

468
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: one of the most dangerous summers in the world. In

469
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: n K two and Anna Perna are the two that

470
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: are like tied for the most dangerous. They think. They

471
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: go back and forth. This is the actual better news. Okay,

472
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: this is actually better. In two thousand six, Sophia Dannenberg

473
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: became the first black woman to summit Everest. She said

474
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: that at the time of her climb quote, when I

475
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: was at base camp, if there were twenty female climbers,

476
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: there must have been two thousand men. In mountaineering, generally

477
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: there aren't many women, but there are so few women

478
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: on Everest. And it's not just the climbers. Almost all

479
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: the serpos, guides, cooks, and staff are men. It's like

480
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: being in a small town with almost no women, and

481
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: if you're climbing, you're there for months. This macho climbing

482
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: culture can be intimidating for women. Young women, including women

483
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: of color, are braining their values into climbing and demanding

484
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: that things are different. It grows exponentially once it started.

485
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: Mountaineering is kind of lagging behind, but the industry is

486
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: starting to respond. She's also been very outspoken about her

487
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: experience climbing as a black woman. Quote, there are a

488
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: lack of role models for people of color in the

489
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: climbing community. I also think that climbing is an indicator

490
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: of lagging social economic issues in her country. People who

491
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: climb big mountains are all the same, well educated, work

492
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: at an engineering company, from upper middle class families. Climbing

493
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: is time consuming and costly. No matter what anyone says

494
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: about the metaphysical part of climbing, it's a selfish, nonproductive activity.

495
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: It's a hobby that takes up a lot of time.

496
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: It's a selfish hobby. It's a hobby that I love.

497
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: Some people don't have the privilege of not being productive.

498
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: And then further, I've noticed that when I've met people

499
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: on my expeditions, they treat me with a level of

500
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: respect because I treat them with respect. People in countries

501
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: in South America, Africa, and Asia are so happy to

502
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: see another brown person checking and climbing. They don't make

503
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: the normal assumptions of being a rich white man. People

504
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: have offered me additional information and have showed me immense hospitality.

505
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: And we're gonna be talking about her a bit more

506
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: in a second. But she's got a lot of great quotes,

507
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: and she's also got a lot of great quotes about

508
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: always being questioned as being an expert. Like they're always like, oh,

509
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: it can't be you butt her. You don't look like

510
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: a climber. Excuse me, what does that look like? Yeah,

511
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: and I've been following again with the social media's but

512
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: a lot of hikers who have been doing being special episodes,

513
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: I guess, or doing specific things to show showcase whether

514
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: or not an area is safe for people of color,

515
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: specifically black people. And I think that's as sad and necessary,

516
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: both of those things. And we've talked about that in

517
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: travel wise, but specifically for climbing, uh and for hiking

518
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: and climbing in wilderness, a type of things, talking about

519
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: whether or not you are safe because we are more isolated.

520
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: We've talked about that as an issue for women in general,

521
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: um and for non binary people, but for you know,

522
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: black the black community, it's a whole different conversation once again,

523
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: whether it's welcoming in general, um. And I find that

524
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: interesting because this is that conversation of like, yeah, it's

525
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: kind of for me as a person of color when

526
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: I see all white people. Don't get me wrong, I

527
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: still have the privilege of not of being considered the

528
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: model minority. Do I get some looks sure, but I

529
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: don't get as much discrimination as a black person would.

530
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 1: I absolutely believe that, um, and I've seen it, but

531
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: it's still like the relief to see another personal color.

532
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: We're kind of like, hi, you made it, so maybe

533
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,239
Speaker 1: this is all, you know, like trying to give us

534
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: each other heads up. And it's definitely that conversation of

535
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: who is welcome and who was seen as an expert

536
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: because well, you don't look like a B, C and D.

537
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: So it's very interesting. I'm glad to hear they're making

538
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: changes and bringing some good, good noted difference in the

539
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: intersectional perspective. Oh yeah, absolutely great quotes. She's also been

540
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: very outspoken of like we're gonna again, we're gonna get

541
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: to this more in a second. But like when she

542
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: did this, it was pretty historic. It really didn't make

543
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: news and it should have, right, Um, of course. And

544
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: then we have named Alma Sharpa, who at the age

545
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: of seventeen, became the youngest woman to summit Mount Everest

546
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: in two thousand eight. She grew up in a remote

547
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: mountain village and Nepal, dreaming of climbing herself, and she

548
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: said quote the Sharpa are known as Mountain heroes and

549
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: always wanted to live up to my name. And apparently

550
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: she did a good job. My god, what was I doing?

551
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: Didn't we have? Sarah Kumalo uh Kumala became the first

552
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: Black African woman to summit Everest in twenty nineteen. Also

553
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: a lot of great quotes, um And then we did

554
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: want to wrap up with some more modern news. In

555
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: recent years, organizations run by women have come together to

556
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: lead all women summits of Everest. One such group operates

557
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: with a local Nepalese organization launched by the Poli entrepreneur

558
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: Indira Bata. It employs all Napoli women as guides and

559
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: provides funding for other local women to train as guides.

560
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: And this is a pretty big deal because over of

561
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: the over twenty two thousand guides in the country, less

562
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: than women. It's pretty it's a good earning. This is

563
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: not a strict endorsement of this company or again of

564
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: climbing Everest, because I know that in itself is controversial,

565
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: but just want to mention it again. We always want

566
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: to think about the environmental impact, but that's all we're

567
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: talking about. This intrigues you make sure you research on again.

568
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: If you're thinking this has been a lot of white folks.

569
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: You are correct, though we don't want to erase what

570
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: women of color have done. Still, of the about four

571
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: thousand people who have some of it Everest, only eight

572
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: of them have been black. Again, there are some efforts

573
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: to change that. And yeah, there are already people doing

574
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: amazing things. Of course, just reminder, so many conversations about this,

575
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: but the opportunity, the affordability, accessibility, and probably just the

576
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: overall racism can be factors or why this is UM

577
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: and then one of these efforts, by the way, is

578
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: a group of black climbers and mountaineers called a Full Circle.

579
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: In the words of a member, Rosemary Saul, it is

580
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: an expedition that is certainly about climbing, it is about

581
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: spending time in the mountains, but it's also about building community,

582
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: global community, and it's about changing the narrative of the

583
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: black community, particularly in the United States, and how we

584
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 1: interact with outdoor spaces. Um. Yeah, and two they became

585
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: the first all black team to summit Everest. There's also

586
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: Brown Girls Climbing, which is a U S organization and

587
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: dedicated to introducing climbing to girls of color and you know,

588
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: we've talked about the hiking experience welldernest experience with other

589
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: organizations and why this is important, but they are able

590
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: to build that community is beautiful to see, yes, and

591
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: a good source to check out, complete with people to

592
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: follow on social media. Uh Is melanin base camp dot

593
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: com um and then in Siyah Sarhati Nelson, who was

594
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: working on a book about women Afghan climbers, reported on

595
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: an Afghan mountaineering women's team stranded in Afghanistan after the

596
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: US left when the Taliban was in charge. Previously, women

597
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: and girls were not allowed to participate in sports, but

598
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: in the post Taliban era they have fought to compete

599
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: and they have had successes. UM. When the Taliban regained control,

600
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: some startup banning women from participating once again, and this

601
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: team's trapped. It was upsetting and very informative article, but

602
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: it was kind of using this team to look at

603
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: what's going on in Afghanistan at large for women. Right. Yeah, obviously,

604
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: again this is one of the big conversations of who

605
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: has accessibility to doing these things and why the numbers

606
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: for those marginalized people are so low, and how it's

607
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: not their fault. Is literally society's fault. Yes, yes, um,

608
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: and definitely like not to harp on this point, but

609
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: to harp on this point, like as the climbing of

610
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: Mountain has become more commercialized, more and more people are

611
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: doing it, and I'm happy to see like it's becoming

612
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 1: more diversified. But as we've said throughout, do your research

613
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: because we've all I think a lot of us have

614
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: seen the pictures now of like the line to see

615
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: everest in the track that's everywhere. Like, if you're going

616
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: to do it, you have to be respectful, to take

617
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: care of the environment, think about what you're doing. Yeah, right,

618
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: and also all that to understand that if native people

619
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: of that land are asking you something, not even asking you,

620
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: but pleading with you to not do something, let's listen.

621
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 1: Let's listen. Yes, yes, yes, I mean there's so many

622
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: there's so much we could talk about with this, but

623
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: we're we gotta stay in our feminist It's hard because

624
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 1: I want to talk about it, but they those podcasts

625
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: you exist, and there is so much information out there

626
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: about this and I am glad that I got to

627
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: share some Mountain information. The tragic but you know, yes,

628
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: it happens, it does. That's what the whole thing got

629
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: started because I was just curious. It's just curious. Well,

630
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: if we have anybody in our audience who's a outaineer

631
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: who was climbed some mountains, we would love to hear

632
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: from you. Uh pictures too, yes, oh my gosh, yes,

633
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,880
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