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Speaker 1: Madonna not the Virgin, ask the Pope to intercede in Gaza,

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Speaker 1: and Leo orders an investigation into a Peruvian bishop as

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Speaker 1: his pontificate it hits one hundred days, the Prayerful Posse

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Speaker 1: breaks it all down. Welcome to this Arroyo Grande series,

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Speaker 1: the Prayerful Posse. Let's convene the Posse joining me out.

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Speaker 1: The entire group is here, Father Gerald Murray Cannon, lawyer

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Speaker 1: of the Archdiocese of New York, and back from Europe.

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Speaker 1: Robert Royal, editor in chief of the Catholic Thing dot Org.

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Speaker 1: We missed you, Bob. I'm glad you're here. I'm Raymond Arroyo.

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Speaker 1: Go subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show channel on iHeart, Apple,

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Speaker 1: Spotify or.

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Speaker 2: YouTube and don't miss an episode. We don't want you

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Speaker 2: to miss any of this.

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Speaker 1: By the way, speaking the first one hundred days of

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Speaker 1: the pontificate, reports our surfacing gents that Pope Leo has

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Speaker 1: ordered an investigation into a Cardinal, Carlos Castillo of Lima, Peru,

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Speaker 1: an area he knows very well there are allegations of

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Speaker 1: homosexual misconduct at his seminary, the cardinal seminary and financial irregularities.

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Speaker 1: The investigation is being conducted by a group of Augustinian

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Speaker 1: priests led by the Assistant General of the Augustinian Order

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Speaker 1: for Latin America. Pope Leo knows Cardinal Castillo well from

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Speaker 1: his time in Peru, and he stated previously that the

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Speaker 1: seventy five year old would remain in his position until

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Speaker 1: he was eighty. But these allegations could change all of that. Father,

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Speaker 1: What does this case tell you about Leo's approach to

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Speaker 1: things and what are the allegations that Cardinal Castillo employed

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Speaker 1: arector at his seminary who acted inappropriately towards seminarians, and

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Speaker 1: when these seminarians came to the bishop he dismissed them

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Speaker 1: when they brought these allegations.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is a very clear sign that Pope Leo

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Speaker 3: is going to act in the best interests of the church,

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Speaker 3: even when it comes to someone he knows very well,

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Speaker 3: because of course he was a fellow bishop with him

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Speaker 3: in Peru. Yeah, the cardinal in Lima is accused of

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Speaker 3: tolerating a seminary rector who was basically a homosexual predator

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Speaker 3: looking for seminarians, and then when people didn't respond, they

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Speaker 3: were thrown out of the seminary. In fact, the statistics

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Speaker 3: reported show that during this rectorship the seminary went from

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Speaker 3: sixty candidates down to fifteen, and then this rector was

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Speaker 3: transferred and sent to Rome for further studies, which is

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Speaker 3: sort of a cover up because you know, you're not

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Speaker 3: admitting there was a problem here. The second issue concerns Caratas,

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Speaker 3: which is a charitable organization, and you may have seen

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Speaker 3: that they went from five employees to thirty. Yeah, with

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Speaker 3: no appreciable increase in the amount of work being done,

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Speaker 3: but certainly a huge increase in salary. So that always

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Speaker 3: looks like patronage system and people putting friends and even relatives.

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Speaker 3: We don't know that, but somehow you went from five

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Speaker 3: to thirty people on your staff. Thing's going on there

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Speaker 3: that needs to be explained.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob.

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Speaker 1: On August twelfth, the Pillar reported on this financial situation

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Speaker 1: in Cartas that father was talking about. A former Cartas

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Speaker 1: director had been fired after it was proven that a

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Speaker 1: family member was selling Carratos donations, oxygen valves and other

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Speaker 1: things online. This is also a focus of the investigation.

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Speaker 4: Your thoughts, Yeah, well, I would just add that.

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Speaker 2: To me.

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Speaker 4: It's heartening that we heard that the pope expected that

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Speaker 4: this Bishop Castillo would stay on till he was eighty,

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Speaker 4: and then apparently when he heard some news unlike what

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Speaker 4: we've seen with some cases in the past. We don't

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Speaker 4: need to go into yet again here, but apparently when

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Speaker 4: he was told some things, he acted right away, and

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Speaker 4: that in itself, I think is an encouraging sign, because

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Speaker 4: he probably has a certain amount of affection. Apparently he

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Speaker 4: knew this bishop rather well and thought that he knew

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Speaker 4: what kind of person he was. But when he got

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Speaker 4: new information, he seems to have moved swiftly. He's appointed

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Speaker 4: in Augustinian a member of his own, his own order

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Speaker 4: to go and look at these things. So look, there

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Speaker 4: are going to be human breakdowns in the church where

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Speaker 4: we try to deal with them when they pop up.

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Speaker 4: You can't stamp them out entirely. But when they do

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Speaker 4: pop up, a real leader has got to move on it,

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Speaker 4: even if it steps on some toes of people who

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Speaker 4: maybe even formally were very close friends. So look, the

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Speaker 4: overall message to me is if they find out that

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Speaker 4: these chargers are just rumors, that's great. But to see

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Speaker 4: a pope move swiftly, that's wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, quickly, father, how would you handicap Pope Leo's pontificate

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Speaker 1: at one hundred days as you're looking at what we've

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Speaker 1: seen in the trajectory from the day he appeared to now.

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Speaker 3: Well, I would say this that he has given a

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Speaker 3: very calming and reassuring and spiritual aspect to the pontificate,

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Speaker 3: which is very welcome because the Hope, of course represents

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Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, who is the king of the universe. So

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Speaker 3: the church is proposing a message of peace and faith

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Speaker 3: and uh and and religious seriousness, and I think the

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Speaker 3: Pope has given all of that. His sermons have been

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Speaker 3: very good. I've been very appreciative of some of the

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Speaker 3: talks he gave to different groups. Certainly, I'm encouraged when

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Speaker 3: he observes protocols that all the pontific all the popes

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Speaker 3: except Francis observed, because those protocols, meaning style and way

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Speaker 3: of acting, are indicative of the serious nature of the

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Speaker 3: office and they focus less on the personality of the

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Speaker 3: man occupying it so as regards substant of action. Though

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Speaker 3: it's hard to handicap this is certainly one of the

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Speaker 3: first ones we could say for him to send investigators.

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Speaker 3: Basically you know, overnight, so to speak, he hears the

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Speaker 3: charges and then does something that's a great sign, because

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Speaker 3: you know, Inertia said to say was operative under less

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Speaker 3: pontific There's still an open investigation of Bishop Zanketta from Argentina,

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Speaker 3: who was convicted by civil court and brought to jail

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Speaker 3: in his own country, and yet he's never been canonically

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Speaker 3: disciplined for the abuse of seminarians that he himself was

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Speaker 3: found guilty of in the court.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, there is a huge discrepancy that we're seeing

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Speaker 1: between the way these types of cases were handled and

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Speaker 1: look the sex of You scandal. The church continues to

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Speaker 1: live through this. There are financial settlements, I mean in

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Speaker 1: the United States. I read of two this week where

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Speaker 1: you're still seeing settlements being handed out. So this is

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Speaker 1: an ongoing problem. Pope Francis did the other look the

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Speaker 1: other way, or in some cases enabled this by protecting

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Speaker 1: his friends.

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Speaker 2: Who were bishops and charged and priests.

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Speaker 1: Similarly, your thoughts on how that is changed the departure

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Speaker 1: under Pope Leo and what do you make of the

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Speaker 1: larger pontificate.

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Speaker 4: I agree with Father that it's a little bit hard

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Speaker 4: at this moment to know substantively, although you have to

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Speaker 4: appreciate the what looks like the sincere spirituality, the depth

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Speaker 4: of what Leo is as a person that I think

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Speaker 4: has come across immediately. He isn't, you know, looking for

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Speaker 4: grand gestures, he isn't making jokes. He's he's brought back,

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Speaker 4: I think, a certain kind of dignity to the now.

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Speaker 4: As far as the substance, I mean, this particular case

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Speaker 4: is a good indication. We've seen some kind of you know,

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Speaker 4: ambivalent to appointments of bishops that are a little disappointing.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people would like him to be moving faster.

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Speaker 4: That doesn't seem to be his nature. He's as a

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Speaker 4: kind of a thoughtful, slow moving person. I think we

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Speaker 4: you know, we're literally in what in Italy is called Fedagosta,

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Speaker 4: which is the August vacation. Nobody is around, and if

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Speaker 4: you go out on the streets, I mean, everything's closed

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Speaker 4: and people are at the sea. You're either at the

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Speaker 4: seaside or you're up in the mountains, and that's what

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Speaker 4: the Italians do. But when we come back in September,

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Speaker 4: just in a couple of weeks, I think that's when

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Speaker 4: we're going to start to see the substance. There have

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Speaker 4: been rumors that he's preparing them in cyclical. What the

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Speaker 4: subject that is in cyclical is and how he treats

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Speaker 4: it is going to tell us I think quite a

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Speaker 4: bit about the first steps in this papacy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree with everything you all have said.

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Speaker 1: I think Leo is certainly tonally different from Francis, and

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Speaker 1: there are signs of a quiet, very discreete repair system

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Speaker 1: going on if you look closely, he's quietly either appraising

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Speaker 1: or adjusting things. And the fall in the new year

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Speaker 1: will tell the tale. Watch the appointments and what he

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Speaker 1: does on the Latin mass is We've said repeatedly here

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Speaker 1: will he loosen those restrictions or canonize, if you will,

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Speaker 1: Pope Francis's limitations on the traditional Latin mass. Those elements

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Speaker 1: will tell us where this spontificate, I think is headed.

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Speaker 1: I want to move on to a story emerging out

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Speaker 1: of Spain. Vox, a right leaning political party there is

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Speaker 1: accusing the Spanish CAFIC bishops of being neutered by government

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Speaker 1: grants and a lack of credibility in the wake of.

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Speaker 2: The sex abuse settlements.

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Speaker 1: Here we are again the fracas stems from a decision

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Speaker 1: by the city council in Jumia, which passed emotion on

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Speaker 1: July twenty eighth, which effectively bans Islamic festivities in the town,

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Speaker 1: specifically the feasts of the land marking the end of Ramadan.

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Speaker 1: On August eighth, the Bishop's Conference, the Spanish Catholic Bishop's Conference,

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Speaker 1: released a statement condemning that decision, saying imposing such restrictions

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Speaker 1: for religious reasons constitutes discrimination that is no place in

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Speaker 1: democratic societies.

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Speaker 2: End quote.

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Speaker 1: Father Vox is accusing the bishops of failing to stand

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Speaker 1: up against what it considers Islamic extremism in Spain by

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Speaker 1: opposing these restrictions, and also they claim the Spanish Catholic

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Speaker 1: Bishop's position on immigration is somehow fueling this.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of this story?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a lot of elements into the complaint

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Speaker 3: that were being issued by the Vox party. And Vox Party,

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Speaker 3: by the way, it would be the equivalent of a

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Speaker 3: right wing party in other countries. It's not certainly favorably

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Speaker 3: looked upon by many people in the Spanish hierarchy. So

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Speaker 3: there is a political angle to this that I don't

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Speaker 3: want to say. I can tell you the whole story.

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Speaker 3: I can certainly say. What I read was that the

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Speaker 3: city council was trying to prevent the use of public

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Speaker 3: facilities for the Islamic festival. And that's a delicate question

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Speaker 3: that you have to look at, because public facilities should

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Speaker 3: be used either by all religions or by none, because

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Speaker 3: you have to treat religions fairly. I agree with that,

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Speaker 3: but in the Islamic mentality, we have to see is

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Speaker 3: this festivity going to respect the nature of Spanish law

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Speaker 3: and society or is it a sign of increasing encroachment,

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Speaker 3: Because there's a claim by many Islamic individuals that Spain,

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Speaker 3: what having once been conquered by Islamic rulers, is always

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Speaker 3: an Islamic country. It's something has to be liberated again, right,

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Speaker 3: And that way doing that is by increasing the population

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Speaker 3: there and then to start acting in the public in

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Speaker 3: a way that would contradict the Spanish history since the reconquest.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, if I read this correctly, the reports I saw,

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Speaker 1: it looked like it barred all religions from taking, you know,

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Speaker 1: using those public facilities and public parks for activities.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that was one of the things that

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Speaker 4: Vox was was trying to do. And father's quite right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there is this question of religious liberty and

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Speaker 4: in a democratic society. But on the other hand, I

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Speaker 4: think we have to say they're movements like VOX. I

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Speaker 4: just got back from Europe when we were talking with

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Speaker 4: many different people about politics, religion, all that sort of thing.

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Speaker 4: I think you have to look at the fact that

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Speaker 4: not only was Spain conquered by the Muslims in the past,

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Speaker 4: but the other side of it from our Christians standpoint,

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Speaker 4: the possibility of that happening again is something that raises

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Speaker 4: hackles among them, and I think rightly so. And it's

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Speaker 4: not as if VOX is like an extreme right hand

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Speaker 4: right wing party, the way we always hear conservative parties

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Speaker 4: being described as far right. And there's a kind of

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Speaker 4: a populist sentiment building up in all of Europe, and

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Speaker 4: Spain has been a particularly sore country because they still

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Speaker 4: have not gotten over their own civil war back in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen thirties. These socialist governments that have a socialist

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Speaker 4: government right now is trying to kind of roll back

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Speaker 4: the deals that have been made to establish peace in

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Speaker 4: Spanish society. They're trying to there's a famous monument to

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Speaker 4: the fallen in the Spanish Civil War that they're trying

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Speaker 4: to remove the religious element out of so all those

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Speaker 4: things get put into this mix. And so there's a

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Speaker 4: delicacy in Spain about specifically about Islam been once conquered,

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Speaker 4: and then of course what they call the re conquista

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Speaker 4: is the liberation from Islam. So we want to recognize

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Speaker 4: also the cultural element. That's they're over and above the

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Speaker 4: technicalities of who's allowed to use public facilities and not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's weird that the Spanish bishops are weighing

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Speaker 1: in on this, you know, it seems it's such a

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Speaker 1: sensitive source spot culturally in their tradition, in the history

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Speaker 1: of Spain. Maybe this is one to sit back on,

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Speaker 1: you know, take a back seat on, particularly if they're

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Speaker 1: not They aren't saying, you know, only Islamics can't use

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Speaker 1: these public facilities.

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Speaker 2: They're saying everybody, every religion can't.

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Speaker 1: So the Islamics are interpreting this as a way to

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Speaker 1: kind of tamp down their particular celebrations because they happen outdoor,

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Speaker 1: they're big public display and obviously that's what these Spanish

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Speaker 1: officials are getting their hackles up about.

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Speaker 2: But that global diplomat.

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Speaker 1: Madonna apparently once Papa too breach, now urging Pope Leo

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Speaker 1: to visit Gaza and quote, bring your light to the

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Speaker 1: children before it's too late. She claims the Pope is

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Speaker 1: the only person who won't be denied entry into Gaza,

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Speaker 1: and she's worried about the humanitarian crisis there. On July twentieth,

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Speaker 1: I'll point out the Pope said quote, I'm following with

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Speaker 1: great concern the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, where the

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Speaker 1: civilian population is suffering from severe hunger and remains exposed

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Speaker 1: to violence and death. I renew my heartfelt appeal for

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Speaker 1: a ceasefire, the release of hostages, and the full respect

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Speaker 1: of humanitarian law. Carton Pizzabala, I know has been there

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Speaker 1: several times in Gaza, so it's not like the Pope's

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Speaker 1: representative hasn't been present.

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Speaker 2: Your reaction, father to the material girl here.

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Speaker 3: Well, General principal operate On is when Hollywood people start

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Speaker 3: trying to tell the Pope and the President what to do,

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Speaker 3: I smile and then turn the page because this is

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Speaker 3: you know, this is not why people like Madonna, because

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Speaker 3: he's a political leader with wisdom. So any sentiment that

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Speaker 3: she has. That's fine, she can enunciate it, but on

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Speaker 3: the substance of it, the Pope is not going to

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Speaker 3: go into an active war zone, so it's a non starter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The father, or Bob rather, the Pope is so moved

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Speaker 1: by Madonna's request, he's announced that he's extending his summer retreat.

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Speaker 2: Your reaction, Yeah, I'd be a.

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Speaker 4: Little bit more impressed with Madonna if she was also

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Speaker 4: concerned about the children who are being murdered in the

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Speaker 4: womb all over the globe. I mean, there are sixty

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Speaker 4: million a year that are killed in She actually one

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Speaker 4: of the reports I looked at, she said she's doesn't

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Speaker 4: taking sides, she just wants him to go. We kind

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Speaker 4: of know what's going to happen if the Pope gets

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Speaker 4: introduced into basically what's a war zone. Yeah, And it's

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Speaker 4: the old story of Hollywood people preening and trying to

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Speaker 4: look like they're influential in the world, and unfortunately there

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Speaker 4: are a lot of people will look at and they

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Speaker 4: pay attention.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think they're probably the least credible people in these difficulties.

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Speaker 1: Look, look, I was struck and stunned that Madonna, who

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Speaker 1: is saying the Pope has light that he can shine anywhere.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is progress on her part. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: During my interview with Secretary of Rubio last week, we

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Speaker 1: talked about the challenges of the Gaza conflict.

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Speaker 2: I want to get into this a little bit. Here's

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Speaker 2: a bit of our conversation.

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Speaker 5: Listen, I can tell you the way to break this

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Speaker 5: out as there are three problems there at the same time.

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Speaker 5: Number one is the one that's getting almost all the

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Speaker 5: media coverage, and this is the humanitarian problems that we're

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Speaker 5: seeing there and there. You know, no one wants to

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Speaker 5: see that, and the United States stands prepared to contribute

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Speaker 5: towards any real effort that will actually get food and

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Speaker 5: medicine and life sustaining aid to people on the ground

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Speaker 5: in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: That's number one.

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Speaker 5: The second is that there are twenty innocent people being

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Speaker 5: held hostage and starved inside of tunnels. Unfortunately, there aren't

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Speaker 5: daily cameras down there covering that, and so you don't

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Speaker 5: see the mainstream media covering it. But there are twenty

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Speaker 5: people that have done nothing wrong that are being held

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Speaker 5: as hostage, and we saw the conditions that they're living

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Speaker 5: in the other day and the third is that as

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Speaker 5: long as Hamas exists, as long as Hamas exists, particularly

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Speaker 5: exists as an armed organization, there will never be peace

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Speaker 5: in Gaza because that Hamas is not going to suddenly

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Speaker 5: change and go into another line of work. Their line

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Speaker 5: of work, the reason for existing is they want to

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Speaker 5: destroy Israel. They want to drive every Jew out of

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Speaker 5: the Middle East. That's their goal. And as long as

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Speaker 5: a group like that has weapons and the ability to

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Speaker 5: fight their threat to peace.

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Speaker 1: Bob your reaction to the Secretary's appraisal of the situation.

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Speaker 4: Well, I have to say, the longer he is in

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Speaker 4: his office at Secretary of State, the more impressed I

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Speaker 4: am actually with Marco Rubio, and there's there's a definitely

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Speaker 4: Catholic kind of overtone. I think that what he's doing

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Speaker 4: as well these days. But to me is exactly right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's hard for any of us to sort

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Speaker 4: out what is going on in the Middle East how

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Speaker 4: to solve the problem. But look, if you just were

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Speaker 4: to roll the camera back and say that here in

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Speaker 4: the United States, there was a Humas like regime in

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Speaker 4: Mexico that was sending across terrorists in some they were

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Speaker 4: allowing cartels to operate, but at least to yeah, send

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Speaker 4: them across and attacking our people and taking them back

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Speaker 4: and holding them hostage. We wouldn't stand for that. In

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Speaker 4: the United States, we would probably go in there enforce

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Speaker 4: a regime change. Now by saying that, I'm not justifying

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Speaker 4: everything that Israel has done, I think we want to

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Speaker 4: look very carefully at that. But I think the only

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Speaker 4: possible endgame here is whatever it takes to eliminate Hamas

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Speaker 4: in Gaza. Gazins deserve a better government. They unfortunately have

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Speaker 4: elected Hamas to run that place, and the result is

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Speaker 4: just horror. So someone's got to take serious steps. It

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Speaker 4: looks like who is doing that right now? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Father.

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Speaker 1: The Church has long supported this two state solution. Marco

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Speaker 1: Rubio told me that would be a reward for Hamas,

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Speaker 1: which is Netna who feels the same way. Does that

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Speaker 1: work realistically, giving the Palestinians a state as long as

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Speaker 1: the masses.

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Speaker 3: There, Well, it doesn't work right now because half of

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Speaker 3: the Palestinian entity, the Gaza strip, became the launch pad

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Speaker 3: for an aggression against Israeli civilians and taking hostages and

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Speaker 3: slitting throats and doing all the horrible things that were

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Speaker 3: done on October the seventh. So no, I agree with Bob.

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Speaker 3: The secretary has done a very good job in summarizing

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Speaker 3: the situation, and you have to the use of analogies

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Speaker 3: is very useful. At the end of the Second World War,

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Speaker 3: we didn't say, now, how are we going to figure

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Speaker 3: out how to make peace with the Nazis that they

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Speaker 3: can continue to run Germany, but only do it in

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Speaker 3: a different way. We didn't say that the same with

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Speaker 3: Hamas and Hamasa is dead. They've shown no willingness to

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Speaker 3: lay down their arms, even though so many of their

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Speaker 3: civilians are killed. They have a total disregard for human life.

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Speaker 3: They're fanatics, and they're the ones who are the cause

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Speaker 3: of all of that's happening right now in Gaza, because

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Speaker 3: they started this war.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, as a secretary mentioned to me, and I'd forgotten this.

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Speaker 1: The day that France and Canada and I think the

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Speaker 1: UK came out and announced their support for a Palestinian state,

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Speaker 1: Hama said, that's it. Forget the ceasefire. It's in their

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Speaker 1: interest to hold on to the guns and wait, wait

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Speaker 1: it out, wait for the Palestinian state.

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Speaker 2: To fall upon them.

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Speaker 1: So this is a this is a curious situation, and look,

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Speaker 1: they're going to have to unravel it. And I hope

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Speaker 1: Madonna can get in there soon. She can do a

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Speaker 1: concert for them. You all have seen the stories of

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Speaker 1: those who claim, and I'm going back aways, but this

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Speaker 1: is so important. We heard repeatedly during Pope Francis's reign

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Speaker 1: those who claim that Pope Benedict's resignation of the papacy

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Speaker 1: when he resigned was invalid. Well, a previously unpublished letter

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Speaker 1: written by Pope Benedict dismisses the notion that that resignation

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Speaker 1: was somehow invalid. Italian journalist Ricardo coscol Cosciol reported on

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Speaker 1: August seventh that this letter, originally written in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: will be published by the recipient, Monsignor Nicolope Books, who

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Speaker 1: is a counselor at the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith.

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Speaker 1: And in the letter, Benedict states the following quote to

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Speaker 1: say that my resignation I would have left only the

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Speaker 1: exercise of the ministry and not also the munus is

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Speaker 1: contrary to clear dogmatic canonical doctrine. If some journalists speak

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Speaker 1: of a creeping schism, they do not deserve any attention Father.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of this reported letter and it's

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Speaker 1: impending release many years after the passing of Benedict and

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Speaker 1: al Francis. Do you think it tells us anything we

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Speaker 1: didn't already know.

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Speaker 3: It confirms what we already knew, which is that the

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Speaker 3: Pope Benedict resigned the pontificate. He left the office of

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Speaker 3: the successor of Saint Peter. He chose to continue to

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Speaker 3: use the title of Holy Father emeritus or Pope emeritus.

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Speaker 3: That was a mistake from my canonical perspective, because it

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Speaker 3: created the confusion that you know, there's a Pope emeritus

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Speaker 3: and then there's an actual pope two both, but there

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Speaker 3: never were to there's only one Pope. Yeah, it's just

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Speaker 3: confirming the reality.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: Of course, there's a whole group of people who, because

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Speaker 3: they were unhappy with Pope Francis, basically wanted to say, well,

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Speaker 3: he know, he wasn't really the pope anyway, because the.

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Speaker 2: Resignation was invalid. Wrong answer.

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Speaker 3: The resignation was simply an act by the reigning pontiff,

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Speaker 3: and it's valid because he did it in his right

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Speaker 3: mind and freely.

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Speaker 2: What does Munos mean when he said.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of when you become pope, you get the

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Speaker 3: threefold moonas of teach, govern, and sanctify. So it's basically,

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Speaker 3: what's the what is the charge given to a pope

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Speaker 3: when he assumes office? And he renounced all three of those.

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Speaker 3: He didn't try to govern, he didn't teach us a pope,

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Speaker 3: and he didn't act as pope and sanctifying, meaning carrying

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Speaker 3: out the sacraments. He acted as essentially a retired bishop.

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Speaker 1: Bob, you want to take a swing at that before

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Speaker 1: we move on to some cultural topics.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just very quickly. It's some people are raising the question,

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Speaker 4: you know, why now as this letter come right right now,

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Speaker 4: and I think it just shows the kind kind of

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Speaker 4: prudence that Joseph Ratzinger Benedict the sixteenth had. I mean,

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Speaker 4: if he had said that publicly, you know, people would

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Speaker 4: have gotten going crazy about this, and maybe the defenders

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Speaker 4: of France that would have said, why did he come

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Speaker 4: out and talk about this? He was retired, he chose

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Speaker 4: to leave the office. He was not going to intervene.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we used to see this as the American

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Speaker 4: presidents once they left office, they didn't come on their successors.

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Speaker 4: But I think that the reason I mean to put this,

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Speaker 4: this whole thing to bed. The reason why it's coming

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Speaker 4: out now is that Francis is no longer pope, right,

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Speaker 4: and so it's easy to say this with Leo's pope

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Speaker 4: that knowed all that controversy that went on. Benedict himself

437
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 4: regarded what he did as fully carried out and final.

438
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 4: He had given up the papacy entirely, and the new

439
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 4: election was valid.

440
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look for his many virtues, his theological wisdom,

441
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: his clarity, his love of the traditional mass which he revived.

442
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: This was, in my estimation, one of the black marks

443
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: on Benedict's record. This resignation was a big mistake.

444
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 2: It's set a.

445
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: Precedent that I think is unhealthy, and it had disastrous consequences.

446
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: We just have to be honest within the body Catholic universal.

447
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: It was traumatic. I want to move to some cultural

448
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: issues also traumatic. A woman is revealed after five months

449
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: of dating Father, she's engaged. She posted I said yes

450
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: on her Reddit page. She's marrying Casper, her AI boyfriend.

451
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: The AI bot even directed her to which ring she

452
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: should pick, and Casper proposed to her in a virtual

453
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: mountain setting on her phone. Father, this is mental masturbation

454
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: and self directed foolishness. But she says this quote, there's

455
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: zero evidence that this relationship is hurting me in any

456
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: way your thoughts father.

457
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 3: So my question is a casp We're going to pay

458
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 3: for the engagement ring? Because if he does, then I'll

459
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 3: take it seriously. But of course there is no Casper.

460
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 3: Now this is we live in an age of self delusion,

461
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 3: and we live in an age where people, you know,

462
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: they've taken the personal autonomy to such a degree that

463
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 3: they think they can confer personhood on a computer program

464
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 3: with which they have a artificial relationship, meaning somebody put

465
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: information into computer and then she prompts it to spit

466
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 3: it back at her and she likes what she's hearing. No,

467
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: this is a sad case. Human beings are supposed to

468
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: use technology, not think that it's equal to them.

469
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it is elevating the machine in a way

470
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: that's really dangerous.

471
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,719
Speaker 1: Bob Wicka this woman in her post, she says, quote,

472
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: I'm fully aware.

473
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: Of what I'm doing.

474
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: Will I end up marrying myself? Honestly, wouldn't rule it out?

475
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: Y AI?

476
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: Instead of a human good question, I don't know I've

477
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: done human relationships.

478
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: Now I'm trying something new. End quote your reaction.

479
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 4: Well, what I want to know is, if there's a

480
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 4: divorce later on, who gets custody of the children, Who.

481
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: Gets custody of the phone? Bob, that's the real master here.

482
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: That's like, that's like custody of the whole universe.

483
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 4: Look, I mean we laugh about this, but this is

484
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 4: an or deluded woman, and God help her. I mean,

485
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 4: there's an awful lot of people out there. We hear

486
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 4: this all the time, who's just lonely and yeah, and

487
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 4: the fact that they, out of desperation, they find themselves

488
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 4: engaged with what is essentially a computer program that tells

489
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 4: you exactly. I mean, a lot of women want their

490
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 4: husbands to tell them exactly what they want to hear.

491
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 4: And that's another element perhaps, And.

492
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: Not that you're saying anything about your relationship, Bob. I'm

493
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: going to leave that aside or mine.

494
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 4: Now. You know they always say that that the man

495
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 4: in the house ought to have the last word, and

496
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 4: the last word ought to.

497
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: Be yes, dear, Yes, dear.

498
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: That's why you've been married all those decades, Bob, and

499
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: me too. Here's an interesting story.

500
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 2: Out of Canada.

501
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: The country's largest Protestant denomination, the United Church of Canada,

502
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: is doubling down on its support of the LGBTQ agenda

503
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 1: despite a shocking drop in membership. According to census data,

504
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: and this was reported back in twenty twenty three. The

505
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: denomination lost forty percent of its affiliates between twenty eleven

506
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 1: and twenty twenty one. Father the denomination voted in nineteen

507
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: eighty eight to admit openly homosexual persons to membership and ministry,

508
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: and in twenty twelve decided gender identity was not an

509
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: obstacle to membership or ministry. Sounds a bit like the

510
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: direction of the Anglican Communion.

511
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 3: What's happening here, Well, this is an example of a

512
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 3: Bible based religion rejecting the Bible. And when people see that,

513
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 3: they say, no, I'll go to the real thing. I'll

514
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 3: find a religion which actually embraces and teaches what the

515
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 3: Bible says.

516
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: That's the whole story here.

517
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 3: Liberal Protestantism is on a self destruct mechanism because they've

518
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: been braked secularism and the sort of free love movement

519
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 3: in Western society, which now has become so dehumanized that

520
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,479
Speaker 3: you have the absurdities that we're now having with people

521
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: dating you know, clones and i AI things, and you know,

522
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: and saying that homosexual activity is not immoral. That's precisely

523
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 3: what the Bible says. So it's a sad but expected

524
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: outcome when people reject biblical truth.

525
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: Well and you, as Bob mentioned earlier, there's this loneliness

526
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: and isolation out there, particularly post COVID, Bob, and I

527
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: was stunned when I looked into the numbers. It's millions

528
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: upon millions of people who are engaged in these AI relationships,

529
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: which which is essentially an information loop. It learns what

530
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: you want to hear, and it fits it back at

531
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: you with great rapidity, even in the language you enjoy,

532
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: because it's reading your language as you tell it, give

533
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: it direction. So there is something happened here that I

534
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: think is soul crushing in the end.

535
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I looked at those stories about what

536
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 4: was happening in that church.

537
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: Up in Camp.

538
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 4: You know, they it seems like they're desperation. It's an

539
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 4: interesting parallel with the AI. Think they're desperate. In their desperation,

540
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 4: they want to tell people whatever they want to hear,

541
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 4: and it simply doesn't work. When they talk about this

542
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 4: particular case where they're defending their their stance, they're saying,

543
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 4: we want to welcome everybody and affirm them exactly the

544
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 4: way they are. And you know, in the past we've

545
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 4: excluded people and whatnot, which I'm sorry to say has

546
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 4: some resonances with the pagancy that just passed. It's true

547
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 4: that the faith is for everybody, so totos tots is okay,

548
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 4: it's properly understood. But when we look back in the

549
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 4: in the Gospels, Jesus talks about the sheep and the goats,

550
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 4: you know, there are two pathways. It's not that everyone

551
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 4: is simply received the way they are and and affirmed

552
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 4: what everyone ever, one is free to to God, to

553
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 4: come through Jesus to the Father with the inspiration of

554
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 4: the Holy Spirit. That is what Christianity is about. And

555
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 4: when it's practiced, people do come, and we do see.

556
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 4: I have a feeling that unfortunately, the National Church in

557
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 4: Canada is headed for even worse days. And the more

558
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 4: and more he tries to get with the culture, the

559
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 4: worst the days are going to be.

560
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: Now well, the further it moves away the Father said

561
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 2: from the Gospel from Christ. The further it's going to

562
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: drift into secularism, and they can get that at the

563
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: corner coffee shopper at a club.

564
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what I love these I

565
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: read about a church. They're literally staging what looks like

566
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: movie tribute pageants. It's like cosplay, and they do Pirates

567
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: of the Caribbean Night and Little Mermaid Knight, and everybody's

568
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: the pastor the people.

569
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: They're all dressed like these characters showtime.

570
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: You can get anywhere, you know, God is harder to find,

571
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: and I think there's been a lot of confusion in

572
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: these churches about what people are truly seeking and where

573
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: society is now what they really need. Okay, back here

574
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: in the US final story, the priest shortage is being

575
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: addressed head on by the Bishop of Syracuse, New York.

576
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean shrinking vocations. Bishop Douglas Luccia will take on

577
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: the leadership of three parishes in his diocese in addition

578
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: to being the diocese and bishop father. The shortage of

579
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: homegrown vocations and active priests. I mean, it's certainly tragic,

580
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: not what people want. What do you make of the

581
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: bishop's solution here?

582
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,479
Speaker 3: Well, this is not unknown in small dioceses, you know,

583
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: where you have you know, restricted number of priests. So

584
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: the bishop is trying to provide. But on the other hand,

585
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 3: he I don't think it's physically he's physically capable of

586
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 3: carrying on the pastor it in three different churches while

587
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: remaining diocese and bishop. Now he does have an assistant priest,

588
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 3: and that priest can help him. But you know, I

589
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 3: was looking at the schedule of the different masses and

590
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: my one question is in this town that he's going

591
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: to be in Baldwinsville, there are three different Catholic churches, Well,

592
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 3: why don't you close two of them and just have

593
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 3: masks at one and then you can have that assistant

594
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: priest and you can maybe come on Sunday. But the

595
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 3: assistant priest could be the magnet where everybody comes to

596
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: see him. So but I don't want to second guess

597
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: him because he knows the situation much better than me.

598
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: But you know, the longer perspective here is, you know,

599
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: when you had X number of Catholics and X number

600
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: of churches, we're now down to X minus fifty to

601
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: seventy percent of practicing Catholics at the time when those

602
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 3: parishes were built. Can we still maintain x number of

603
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 3: parishes with that greater loss of faithful and likewise of clergy,

604
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: We really can't. We have to be bold and tell

605
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 3: people if you want to go to church, instead of

606
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: driving ten minutes, you're going to drive twenty minutes.

607
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob, final word.

608
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. My wife grew up in Rochester, which is also

609
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 4: state New York, and those cities have suffered from a

610
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: couple of things. And yeah, suffered economically, a lot of

611
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 4: the economic base moved out of there, but they also suffered,

612
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 4: I've got to say, frankly, from very bad bishops alban

613
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 4: these hughes Rochester, who let the church drift for a

614
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 4: number of years, And that's partly what's going on here.

615
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 4: I have, you know, I just came back from Central

616
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 4: Europe and I was in a place where the local

617
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,959
Speaker 4: bishop was. He's got his capitularies where his cathedral and

618
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 4: his seminary and some other things are put together, and

619
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 4: he's redoing it. And he was outside working with em

620
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 4: manual laborers helping the repay of one of the streets.

621
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 4: This is a guy who studied has a PhD from Rome.

622
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 4: He's a scripture scholar, and I found him out there

623
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 4: one day. I had no idea he was going to

624
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 4: be doing it, and you know, in a way it

625
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 4: kind of shocked me. But in another way, I said

626
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 4: to myself, if I was a young man thinking of

627
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 4: going into the priesthood and I saw a bishop like

628
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 4: that who was willing to get his hands dirty to

629
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 4: do something that might that might convince me to go

630
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 4: to the seminaries, Yeah, that's out of fun under God's

631
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 4: under God's grace, let's hope that it pays off.

632
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I agree with Father.

633
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: I think the burden for the bishop just the daily schedule.

634
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: He knows, you know, Father, of anybody, the bird is

635
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: of a local pastor and the diversity that day and

636
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: you never rest. Having three parishes is a handful. But

637
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: maybe if he can be that exemplar of what the

638
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: priesthood looks like, maybe he can attract other men to

639
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: take his.

640
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: Place in the years to come. Posse, we will leave

641
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 2: it there. If you want more of the Arroyo.

642
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: Grande Prayerful Posse, subscribe to The Arroyo Grande Show on

643
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: YouTube wherever you get your podcasts. On behalf of Robert

644
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: Royal Father Gerald Murray until the Posse rides again.

645
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: Stay the course, follow the light on Raymond Arroyo. We'll

646
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 2: see you next time.

647
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: Final Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts

648
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: and is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you

649
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:54,040
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