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Speaker 1: Bitcoin is winning, institutions are in we've got ETFs going live,

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Speaker 1: governments are reacting. But there's a risk to bitcoin that

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Speaker 1: almost no one is talking about and has got nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with the price. He's got nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with regulations, not even a market crash. And so today

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Speaker 1: we're going to break down the biggest Bitcoin risk that

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Speaker 1: most people are completely unprepared for, why it's getting worse

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Speaker 1: as adoption grows, and how it quietly wiped out people

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Speaker 1: who think they're safe, and of course what you actually

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Speaker 1: need to do now in order to avoid it. And

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Speaker 1: to do that, I'm going to sit down today with

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Speaker 1: Ben from Bitcoin Sessions. He's one of the people who's

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Speaker 1: helped more bitcoiners actually secure their bitcoin than almost anyone

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Speaker 1: else that I know. So let's go ahead, just jump

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Speaker 1: right into it. First of all, Ben, thanks for joining

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Speaker 1: me today. It's a pleasure. We've never actually got to

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Speaker 1: sit down and do this, so I'm excited looking forward

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Speaker 1: to this. You've been a wealth of knowledge and really

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Speaker 1: helping push people down the Bitcoin I don't even want

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Speaker 1: to say the rabbit hole, but maybe the sovereign stack.

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Speaker 1: We'll call it that. But let's say, as of right now, today, Ben,

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin's pretty much winning on a mapcro level. I mean,

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Speaker 1: institutions are here, ETFs here, Larry Fink from Black Rocks

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Speaker 1: saying five percent adoption. But from where you sit, working

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Speaker 1: directly with every day bitcoinners like you've been doing, what

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Speaker 1: do you think the biggest mistake that you're seeing people

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Speaker 1: make right now as adoption is accelerating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know there's a lot of people that

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Speaker 2: have come in recently through you know, the kind of

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Speaker 2: the TRADFI corridors, right they see, oh, I can get

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Speaker 2: bitcoin through an ETF, As you said Larry Finks on it,

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Speaker 2: it's it's being normalized. You know, there's ETFs, there's treasury companies,

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Speaker 2: and so people they'll look and they'll say, Okay, I

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Speaker 2: can get it in my traditional stock portfolio, and then

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Speaker 2: that's it, and then I'm good. And I think it's

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Speaker 2: a mistake to just stomp there entirely. You know, It's

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Speaker 2: it's nice if this is your first little bread crumb

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Speaker 2: leading you down the path. That's a great piece of

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Speaker 2: learning to begin with. But I think it's important that

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Speaker 2: people want kind of realize why bitcoin is important. And

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Speaker 2: you talk about this a lot on your show, but two,

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Speaker 2: how do you actually take advantage of this incredible technology,

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Speaker 2: which you know, in my opinion, is one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest leaps in technology that we've seen in our lifetimes.

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Speaker 2: How do you actually participate in that and be using

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Speaker 2: it in a self sovereign way, Because let's not forget

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Speaker 2: part of the reason that bitcoin is even needed in

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Speaker 2: the first place is the control that the powers that

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Speaker 2: we have and their ability to debase the currency. And

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Speaker 2: you know, bitcoin wouldn't be needed if everything was about board. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but you know, so, how do you actually use bitcoin

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Speaker 2: in a way where you can be self sovereign and

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Speaker 2: you can be secure, and you can actually make it

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Speaker 2: so whether it be an individual or whether it be

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Speaker 2: an institution or government, So it puts walls between them

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Speaker 2: and your self sovereign money in a way where even

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Speaker 2: if somebody were to try to extract coins from you,

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Speaker 2: you're you're You've got a strong enough setup that you

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Speaker 2: you in some instances, can't even comply if you wanted to.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's very important that people just learn

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Speaker 2: there's there's the traditional financial tools that you can use,

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Speaker 2: but there's the truly self sovereign, unshakable own your wealth

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Speaker 2: aspect of bitcoin, and it's not nearly as difficult as

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Speaker 2: people think.

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Speaker 3: It's just new.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's great. It's a great place to start.

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Speaker 1: I think about when when you kind of sort of

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Speaker 1: break down value creation, what businesses do value creation? You

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Speaker 1: think about problem problem solving, and so then you think

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Speaker 1: about the bigger the problem I solve for the more people,

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Speaker 1: the more value that's created. So if I'm a brain

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Speaker 1: surgeon or a heart surgeon, I've created a mense value

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Speaker 1: but for one person. But if I make personal computers,

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Speaker 1: then I've created immense value for the whole world. And

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Speaker 1: if you take like maybe the oldest problem in the world,

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Speaker 1: which is how do I keep my property from being stolen?

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Speaker 1: So we have villages, and we have cities, and we

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Speaker 1: have kingdoms and we have countries to protect private property.

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Speaker 1: But now bitcoin gives us a way to protect our

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Speaker 1: private property without having to have all that. So it

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Speaker 1: seems like we should probably do that then, right, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it takes protecting one's wealth and it

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Speaker 2: gives you the tools to have superpowers in doing so.

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Speaker 2: In the digital realm. Up till this point, pretty much

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Speaker 2: if you have something of value, it's I need to

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Speaker 2: trust somebody else to deal with it. And Bitcoin changes

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Speaker 2: that script, flips that script entirely and gives you access

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Speaker 2: to insanely secure tools, the likes of which puts you

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Speaker 2: on par or even better than some of the biggest

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Speaker 2: institutions on the planet. You know, you have access to

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Speaker 2: the same degree of security for your bitcoin that Blackrock does,

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Speaker 2: and you can do it yourself for very cheap And

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Speaker 2: people don't realize this, but you can have that level

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Speaker 2: of security.

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Speaker 1: Now, speaking of Blackrock, a lot of people think that

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Speaker 1: seeing Blackrock, the Evil Empire, the largest asset manager in

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Speaker 1: the world, coming into bitcoin, seeing institutions coming into bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: this mass adoption, if you will, is Wall Street's adoption

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Speaker 1: is sort of co opting it. And so there's a

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Speaker 1: big battle and debate about that. I've even seen people

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Speaker 1: on x saying like I'm out, like now it's co opted,

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Speaker 1: it's over, which I think is insane. But where do

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Speaker 1: you see that kind of how would you reframe maybe

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Speaker 1: this long long term inevitability, what's happening and sort of

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Speaker 1: where we're at with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the most difficult things that people continually

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Speaker 2: have to grapple with in bitcoin, is that people you

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Speaker 2: don't like, even your enemies, are going to use bitcoin

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Speaker 2: if they're not already, and them using it and being

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Speaker 2: able to use it and not being excluded from that

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Speaker 2: system just means that it's stronger.

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Speaker 3: And more resilient for yourself.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: That's a really hard thing for some people to grapple with.

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Speaker 2: And we've seen people rage quit over that time and

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Speaker 2: again i've seen people with the election of Trump. Well

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Speaker 2: it's public, so I'm just gonna I'll chat about it quickly.

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Speaker 2: But Mike Brock, Okay, he was at block under Jack

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Speaker 2: Dorsey was working there and everything, and he was a

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Speaker 2: proponent of bitcoin. He came to some Human Rights Foundation

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Speaker 2: stuff and everything, and he just the other day Bitcoin over.

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Speaker 2: It's done, it's failed. It's garbage. But when you really

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Speaker 2: get down to the crux of what he wrote, it was,

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Speaker 2: you know, paraphrasing very simply, but people I don't like

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Speaker 2: are using bitcoin. He's not a fan of Trump. Trump

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Speaker 2: kind of endorsed bitcoin and went to the crypto route

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Speaker 2: and all that whatever. But again, like we see that,

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Speaker 2: but as you said, we're also seeing kind of hardened

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Speaker 2: self sovereign bitcoiner say it's been co opted on that

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Speaker 2: Why because Wall Street, Blackrock, these institutions, these treasury companies,

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Speaker 2: so on and so forth. But the fact of the matter is,

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Speaker 2: no matter who else uses bitcoin, it doesn't preclude you

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Speaker 2: as an individual from being self sovereign and holding the

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Speaker 2: fruits of your labor in a money nobody can print.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't think people rage quitting over others

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Speaker 2: using bitcoin is stopping, and I think we'll probably see

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Speaker 2: more of it in the future. But at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, every single person on this planet, if

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Speaker 2: they want to, can can go out and use bitcoin

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Speaker 2: and secure it if they choose to. You're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to reconcile the fact that people you don't like can

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Speaker 2: do that too.

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Speaker 1: The part that you opened with, I think was the

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Speaker 1: most powerful. It's not just that you have you ended

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Speaker 1: with that you have to be okay with people you

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Speaker 1: don't like using it, But what you said at the

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Speaker 1: beginning was what you also have to recognize is that

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Speaker 1: people you don't like using it actually makes it better,

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Speaker 1: which is like, wow, okay, So it's not just I

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Speaker 1: have to be okay with it. It actually is good

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Speaker 1: for me that they're using it, So I think that's

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Speaker 1: important to understand. And you know, like all things, they

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Speaker 1: start small and niche and cool and core, and then

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Speaker 1: eventually they get gentrified. You know, this area of town

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Speaker 1: gets blown out, This cool restaurant bar gets blown out.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm from southern California, so action sports, you know,

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Speaker 1: skateboarding or surfing is core. And then it gets blown out.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, Bitcoin started with the cipher punk roots,

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Speaker 1: and now it's it's getting blown out. Right Now you

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Speaker 1: got black Rock in there, but it doesn't it doesn't

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Speaker 1: change that Bitcoin is still there for the cipherpunks. I

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Speaker 1: was in Prague and I was on a panel and

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Speaker 1: we were talking about this, and it's like when bitcoin started,

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Speaker 1: it was just the cipher punks and it was an

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Speaker 1: email newsletter and there was a dozen people. Today there's

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Speaker 1: ten thousand or more cipher punks working on it. And

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Speaker 1: sure black rocks there too, but there's way more cipherpunks

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Speaker 1: today than there were in the beginning. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: how do you balance I guess both of those.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're seeing both ends be built out. We're

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Speaker 2: seeing ETFs and financial products being created. En mass you

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Speaker 2: can go and you can shop from a shelf full

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Speaker 2: of those options. But at the same time, at the

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Speaker 2: other end of the spectrum, we've never had more people

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Speaker 2: working on open source projects that grant people the ability

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Speaker 2: to here their bitcoin in different ways, additional layers to

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Speaker 2: be able to use it day to day in a

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Speaker 2: private way. We have an insane amount of projects. I

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Speaker 2: just returned from the African Bitcoin Conference, and the use

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Speaker 2: case for people through the continent of Africa when it

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Speaker 2: comes to bitcoin is very markedly different from what you

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Speaker 2: would see at a Western conference. I went there not

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Speaker 2: a single mention of treasury companies and ETFs right obviously

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Speaker 2: the entire weekend. But what was mentioned is our money's broken.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a bank account. Transacting between countries is

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Speaker 2: nonexistent with our existing rails. If I have my local

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Speaker 2: currency and I step outside of my border, it's literally worthless.

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Speaker 2: I cannot even exchange it. You know, my country has hyperinflation.

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Speaker 2: They're trying to impose CBDCs on me. All of these

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Speaker 2: are the real issues that are happening there. And these

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Speaker 2: people are not concerned that black Rock is also using bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: They're concerned that bitcoin is working for them and how

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Speaker 2: do we inform the masses where we're from that this

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Speaker 2: can help them. And so it's important to know that

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Speaker 2: what's happening in the West isn't the same as maybe

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Speaker 2: what's happening in the global South. And just because one

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Speaker 2: thing is in one use case, is being pushed to

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Speaker 2: the forefront at Western conferences doesn't mean that people that

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Speaker 2: are using bitcoin for we'll say more cypherpunk ideals are

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Speaker 2: stopped from doing so. In fact, it's absolutely flourishing right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a great point. I was on someone's

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Speaker 1: podcast last week and they're like a twenty eight year

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Speaker 1: old guy. He owns a gold company and he's definitely

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Speaker 1: a big time goldbug, and you know, he was just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just don't understand you know, bitcoin, because

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Speaker 1: the gold this and that. And he's like, I'll just

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Speaker 1: buy my gold and I'll just stay here in America,

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Speaker 1: Like I'll just do that. And I'm like, listen, man,

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Speaker 1: Like America is four percent of the world's population, four percent,

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Speaker 1: Like so like you have to think bigger, and so

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Speaker 1: we have something like bitcoin that's like this global monetary

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Speaker 1: regime change, and so it's like the US four percent,

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Speaker 1: the West is even still a small percentage of the world,

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Speaker 1: and like you're saying in Africa, in Afghanistan women can't

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Speaker 1: even have bank accounts, or in North Korea no one

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Speaker 1: can have bank accounts, right, and so like thinking about

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Speaker 1: it in those bigger pictures. But I've heard you say before.

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Speaker 1: I think you said that if bitcoin could go on

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Speaker 1: to go from wherever we're at close to one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand today up to a million dollars, but maybe still

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Speaker 1: fail its mission. So like, what how could it fail

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Speaker 1: the mission? And what does winning actually look like? Then

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Speaker 1: you've heard me talking about investing in layers and things

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Speaker 1: like the reason you have to work so hard is

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Speaker 1: because your money doesn't well. I want to invite you

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Speaker 1: to a special event. I'm having a three day live

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Speaker 1: event called the Wealth Operating System. It's an accelerator event.

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Speaker 1: We I'm gonna teach you all the tools that the

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Speaker 1: one percent use to have their money work harder than

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Speaker 1: they do, getting their money to do one job, two jobs, three,

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Speaker 1: five jobs at once, so it can work faster and

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Speaker 1: harder than you. Over three days, We're gonna go deep.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring in guest speakers. It's workshop style. I

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Speaker 1: got about fifteen tools, and we're gonna go through a

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Speaker 1: methodical process so you can learn how to reclaim ten

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Speaker 1: to fifteen hours of your time back per week, how

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Speaker 1: to keep more of your money, how to invest it

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Speaker 1: and multiply it faster than you've ever imagined by the individual.

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Speaker 1: Have a ninety day plan of exactly what you need

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Speaker 1: to do to go make twenty twenty six the best

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Speaker 1: year you've ever imagined. It's all gonna be live, it's

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Speaker 1: all gonna be virtual. There's a link down below if

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Speaker 1: you want to come check out. I'll put a QR

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Speaker 1: code up on the screen. If you want to get

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Speaker 1: your money working harder than you to grow your wealth

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Speaker 1: faster than you've ever imagined, like the one percent, check

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Speaker 1: out the Wealth Operating System Accelerator event. Check out the

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Speaker 1: link down below.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I would say if bitcoin simply becomes

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Speaker 2: a store of value for people to invest in that

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Speaker 2: is entirely through regulated, custodied solutions, it's not it's not

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Speaker 2: a complete failure, but it's it's more of a failure

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Speaker 2: than I would like. You know, it's still a great

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Speaker 2: way to you know, step outside of the rampant money

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Speaker 2: printing and the debasement and the extraction of the fruits

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Speaker 2: of one's labor. But you know that this is it's

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Speaker 2: just another thing being monetized for that purpose. It's a

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Speaker 2: new real estate, it's a new whatever. And and sure,

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Speaker 2: maybe a generation gets the benefit of you know, similar

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Speaker 2: type of situation where you know, the boomers with real

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Speaker 2: estate and that was an amazing bet an amazing thing

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Speaker 2: to be a part of.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And maybe that's what it becomes. But for me, that's

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Speaker 2: not compelling. What's compelling is is dismantling this exploitative system

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Speaker 2: that we have where where you have the powers that

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Speaker 2: be that are able to dictate and siphon off wealth

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Speaker 2: and redirect it wherever they want and have an entire

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Speaker 2: populace that is kind of a slip at the wheel

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Speaker 2: as to what's truly happening, and mistakenly pointing their fingers

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Speaker 2: at the vendor whose prices have gone up. I bought

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Speaker 2: this from you. It's more expensive. You're the person to

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Speaker 2: blame when really like everything is going up because the

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Speaker 2: reality is the money is becoming less valuable. And so

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Speaker 2: to contrast that, I think success looks like bitcoin becoming

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Speaker 2: the money. But we have a huge hurdle to get

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Speaker 2: over to get to that point. I see a bit

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Speaker 2: of that happening in places where the money is so

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Speaker 2: bad that people just decide, Okay, well I'm going to

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Speaker 2: use this instead, like what do I have to lose?

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Speaker 2: But less in the West, And I worry that the

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Speaker 2: West is in this kind of mid tier level where

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Speaker 2: it's inflation is bad and quality standard of living is dropping,

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Speaker 2: but not bad enough to make people act like there's

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Speaker 2: being is the frog and the boiling pot of water

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Speaker 2: kind of situation. So yeah, failing to me, or at

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Speaker 2: least failing more than I would like, looks like bitcoin

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Speaker 2: just being another stock.

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Speaker 3: Success to me looks like.

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Speaker 2: You eventually are living on a bitcoin standard and you

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Speaker 2: have privacy tools that you can use. And not only that,

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Speaker 2: but your average person has far greater privacy assurances than

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Speaker 2: they do now. And the people whose job it is

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Speaker 2: to hold and protect capital for many many people. So

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Speaker 2: whether it be companies, institutions, governments, I think they should

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Speaker 2: have the maximum amount of scrutiny so on chain bitcoin

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Speaker 2: addresses that can be audited by everyone and see exactly

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Speaker 2: where the money is and where it's moving and all

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Speaker 2: of that. Whereas your day to day person will be

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Speaker 2: using you know, Layer two solutions that have you know,

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Speaker 2: much better privacy e cash and stuff like that, where

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Speaker 2: it's you can't release what's going on. That's the opposite

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Speaker 2: of what we're getting right now. It's like the government

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Speaker 2: is opaque as hell and your average person has to

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Speaker 2: report there's six hundred dollars Venomo transaction.

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Speaker 1: I can't speak for Canada, but in the United States,

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Speaker 1: it's supposed to be a government of the people, by

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Speaker 1: the people for the people, and the government are public officials.

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Speaker 1: So to the point that you're making all of that

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Speaker 1: is supposed to be public. We are supposed to be

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Speaker 1: private citizens, so they are supposed to be public, and

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Speaker 1: everything they do is supposed to be known and seen

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Speaker 1: and shown and have transparency. We as private citizens and

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Speaker 1: individuals should have all that privacy. But to your point,

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Speaker 1: it's reversed and they want to see my six hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars venmote transaction, and we can't see how the billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars are being siphoned off in medicaid or whatever.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing right now going on.

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Speaker 2: The amount of corruption at the top again, and the

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Speaker 2: incentives are there right the incentives are there for people

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Speaker 2: to appropriate funds to steal from the masses and then

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Speaker 2: favor their friends and their businesses.

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Speaker 3: And all that kind of stuff. There's just so much

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 2: And then and then anybody who who may have been

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Speaker 2: able to escape inflation and hold on to the money

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Speaker 2: nobody can print, it's like, oh, we're going to need.

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Speaker 3: To tax you on that as well.

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Speaker 2: I've even saw there's a recent story where was it

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Speaker 2: was out of in October out of South Korea. The

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Speaker 2: tax office there actually said that they're now going to

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Speaker 2: be targeting individuals where they say, if we think you

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Speaker 2: owe us money in regards to to bitcoin or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and we think that you have it in self custody

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Speaker 2: with hardware, we have no problem entering your home and

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Speaker 2: and looking for your hardware and seizing it and compelling

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Speaker 2: you to give up your your seat phrase or give

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Speaker 2: up your pin to your device and everything. So I

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Speaker 2: did a whole video and like, if you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: not telling people to break the law or anything, but

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Speaker 2: like laws can suddenly be changed on you too, and

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Speaker 2: so like if you want a situation where something like

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Speaker 2: that happens and you don't think it's lawful, and you

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Speaker 2: want them to have to actually prove their case and

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Speaker 2: point in court before they get a hold of your assets.

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Speaker 2: Because we see all the time civil asset forfeiture. It's

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Speaker 2: like we're going to steal your search first and then

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Speaker 2: it's on you to then pay to prove the innocence

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Speaker 2: of the asset. It's not even yourself, like you don't

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Speaker 2: even have to be charged with a crime. It's like

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Speaker 2: the asset is charged as being implicated in a crime

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Speaker 2: and you have to then prove. So I made a

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Speaker 2: whole video and like, how do you have a setup

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Speaker 2: that is resilient enough that even if somebody kicks open

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Speaker 2: your door and says, we know you have bitcoin, we

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Speaker 2: know you have a device here that is part of

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Speaker 2: a setup to secure it, how do you make it

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Speaker 2: so that they cannot get their hands on it still,

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Speaker 2: So there's again as we were talking earlier, there are

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Speaker 2: tools out there that can at least put that wall

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Speaker 2: in between where they don't get to steal and then

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Speaker 2: have you argue to get it back.

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Speaker 3: They have to prove why they should.

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Speaker 1: Have Well, I want to have you walk us through

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Speaker 1: that because you are certainly the expert to do that.

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Speaker 1: But just kind of going back to this main key

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Speaker 1: point here, so failure. So when you look through thousands

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Speaker 1: of years of monetary history, you see that it's typically

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Speaker 1: like an evolutionary process. So you find a cool rocker,

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Speaker 1: feather or ceashell, and you collect it, and then enough

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Speaker 1: people collected, so then you start storing value, and and

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Speaker 1: then enough people use that has money attributes it to

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Speaker 1: move to a medium exchange, and then if enough people

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Speaker 1: use that, it can be a unit of count. So

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Speaker 1: you sort of have this evolutionary process. And so I

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Speaker 1: think what you're saying is if bitcoin goes from the

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Speaker 1: collectible to the store of value and then it kind

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Speaker 1: of stops there, and maybe even worse, the store of

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Speaker 1: value is stuck in institutional rails, then it's sort of

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Speaker 1: a failure if it doesn't actually continue the evolutionary process

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Speaker 1: to becoming a medium exchange, I guess. So, so if if, if,

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Speaker 1: if that's what you're saying, and then and then what

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Speaker 1: would cause it to stall out and stop there?

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Speaker 2: I think it's it's in the hands of of the individuals.

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Speaker 2: It's in the hands of the bitcoiners. You know, at

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Speaker 2: some point somebody had to be a pioneer and say

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Speaker 2: I'm going to treat bitcoin as a collectible. I'm willing

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Speaker 2: to uh pay a price for it, and and so

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Speaker 2: you know, a price was attached and people began to

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Speaker 2: speculate on it. At some point somebody had to say, no,

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Speaker 2: this is value, this is sound money, and I'm going

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Speaker 2: to treat.

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Speaker 3: It as a store of value.

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Speaker 2: At some point, somebody had to pioneer the way and

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Speaker 2: say I'm going to use this as my treasury. And

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Speaker 2: in the same way, I think, at some point, and

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Speaker 2: it's already happening, some people have to even though we

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Speaker 2: know that it's going to be incredibly valuable to hold

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Speaker 2: on to bitcoin in the long term, some people have

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Speaker 2: to forge the way and say I'm going to push

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Speaker 2: it to the next step, which is using it as

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Speaker 2: money as a medium of exchange. And so I think

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Speaker 2: that's incredibly important. We see these kind of local circular

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Speaker 2: economies popping up in different places. In fact, after this interview,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to the local circular market that I created

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Speaker 2: in my sof so really that we've been running for

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Speaker 2: two years. And so I think it's it's just it's

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Speaker 2: so important because how do you become more than a

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Speaker 2: store of value? How do you become not only more

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Speaker 2: than a store of value, but truly unshakeable in no

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Speaker 2: longer having to rely on third parties to do things.

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Speaker 2: And in my opinion, that is building communities where like

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Speaker 2: minded people understand this is better money and also are

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Speaker 2: willing to trade their goods and services for that. And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of what we built here. And we see

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Speaker 2: this echoed in other places like Bitcoin Beach, and there's

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Speaker 2: a whole map that you can look at of different

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Speaker 2: bitcoin circular economies popping up.

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Speaker 3: So that's where I think we will.

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Speaker 1: It's a combination of things coming together. One is just time,

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Speaker 1: so allowing that evolutionary process. But you need the sale ability,

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Speaker 1: so you need enough people that will accept it to

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Speaker 1: make it liquid. You have, you know, in a lot

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Speaker 1: of countries in the United States, you have tax implications

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Speaker 1: and so there's constantly being proposals to sort of get

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Speaker 1: over that hurdle. But then you also have the volatility issue.

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Speaker 1: I mean, big ones a fifty of all asset, which

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Speaker 1: is great. I wanted to go up fifty percent a year.

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Speaker 1: I don't like it. I want to goes down fifty percent

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Speaker 1: a year as much. But that's what a fifty of

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Speaker 1: all asset is and so then you sort of also

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Speaker 1: have to sort of kind of keep those things in mind.

434
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: But over time more people will accept it becomes more saleable.

435
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: Over time that asset value will get bigger and the

436
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: ball will go down, which is bad in a sense

437
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: where it doesn't go up as much, but it can

438
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: be used as medium exchange better. And then I am

439
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: hopeful that we'll see some of these tax implications change,

440
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: and if not, they might just be forced to change

441
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: from the people using them.

442
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: And I'll I'll make a case really quick here for

443
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: while navigating that sounds tricky, here's here's my case for

444
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: why I'm a crazy person and actually have been living

445
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 2: on bitcoin. Ninety five percent of my income has been

446
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: bitcoin since twenty twenty and I live on it based

447
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: pretty much exclusively. My case is this number one tax

448
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: implications up and down? Oh jeez, what if there's a

449
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 2: capital gain event triggered? And okay, well, if you incur

450
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: a taxable event and there's a capital gain to be paid,

451
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: that means your money, your your day to day money

452
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: has increased in purchasing power and you then have to

453
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: give back a portion of that increase to the government,

454
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: you're still up. And what that means in practice is

455
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: when's the last time that happened to your dollars?

456
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 3: Obviously, like they don't.

457
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: Charge you're looking at what you get, not what you lost.

458
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

459
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 2: And so it's like saying I don't want to win

460
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 2: the lottery because there'll be taxes on. It's like you're

461
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: still you're still doing better than you were. And on

462
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: the flip side of that, if there's a loss at

463
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: the time when you when you spend your bitcoin, you

464
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: can claim loss a capital loss on that as well,

465
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: which also not possible on the on the dollar, which

466
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 2: does that perpetually forever.

467
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: Good point. So there's those.

468
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: Two things, uh and and then on top of that,

469
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: like it's it's not going to be as easy. It's

470
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 2: ideological if you're going to make that that leap, but

471
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: it's not as difficult as one would think. And uh yeah,

472
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: you know I the in terms of volatility, I stand

473
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 2: out invoices. I get paid at the beginning of the month,

474
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: and the way that I avoid volatility in the short

475
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 2: term is as soon as the invoices come in, I

476
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: know exactly what my expenses are for the month. I

477
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: just pay those right away and then the rest is

478
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 2: long term savings, and it does an extra thing for

479
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: me down the line, is this bitcoin that I have,

480
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 2: either you know, in my personal savings or as the

481
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: company treasury. If there's an expense that we're deciding on,

482
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: it becomes do I actually want and really need this

483
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: thing or would it be better to save? And sometimes

484
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: the answer is yes, it's important we should get this.

485
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: Other times it makes me more conscientious about my expenses

486
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: after the fact.

487
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, and that's kind of the thing

488
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: with FIAT is that maybe some of the government officials

489
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: wanted to continue to lose value, so they incentivize us

490
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: to spend, as if humans needed, as if humans need

491
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: incentive to spend. But the flip side of that is,

492
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: if your money can buy you more in the future,

493
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: could I just wait a little bit longer to where

494
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: it's cheaper for me? And so that's kind of the unlock.

495
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: And I'm just going to tell the audience real quick,

496
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: that's great. Great for Ben. He gets paid in bitcoin.

497
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: You don't, But you could do the same thing. You

498
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: just flip it. So he gets paid in bitcoin, he

499
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: converts what he needs to pay his bills into dollars,

500
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: saves in bitcoin, you get paid in dollars, you pay

501
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: with you million dollars con for the rest of bitcoin.

502
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: So you can do the same thing. You just it

503
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: just invert that exactly. Let's let's go back to the

504
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: South Korea, kick your door down, what are you gonna do?

505
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: And and let's not even go to South Korea. But

506
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: I've been seeing more and more and more headlines of

507
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: people being targeted, you know, known crypto people being targeted,

508
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: home invasions, ranch attacks, as we will things like that.

509
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: So how do you and you work with them and

510
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: you have a you have a service where you help

511
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: people sort of kind of start using this self custody.

512
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: So where does somebody start and then how do you

513
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: think through like walking them into the process, and how

514
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: should they evolve into that? Every day we see headlines

515
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: about inflation and dead and diminishing control over our own money.

516
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: That's why I always come back to bitcoin because it's

517
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 1: built for generations, it's built for legacy. But protecting your

518
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: bitcoin legacy the right way is not always simple. It

519
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: demands discipline, focus, and the right partner. Now that's why

520
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: I personally use unchained Signature. It's a premium I have

521
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: a client service for serious bitcoin holders who want expert guidance,

522
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: resilient custody, and an enduring partnership. Now Signature, you're paired

523
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: with your own dedicated account manager, someone who understands your

524
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: goals helps you every step of the way. You're going

525
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: to get white glove onboarding, same day emergency support, personalized education,

526
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: reduced trading fees, and priority access to exclusive events and features.

527
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: Unchained Collaborative custody model is designed to provide the same

528
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: security as the world's biggest bitcoin custodians, but for those

529
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: who prefer to hold their own keys. Now. I've been

530
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: using and recommending Unchained for years. I even got my

531
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: parents to set up with them. So if you want

532
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 1: to get set up, check out Unchained Signature at unchained

533
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: dot com, slash mark Moss and as a loyal listener,

534
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: I got a discount for you. Just use code Moss

535
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: ten at checkout to get ten percent off your first year.

536
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: Because your bitcoin isn't just for life, it's for generations.

537
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean the first initial steps, you're going

538
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 2: to keep it as basic as possible. One where am

539
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: I going to obtain my bitcoin. And depending on the locale,

540
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: it's going to be different for everyone, but there's plenty

541
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: of options depending on your country and city and so

542
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: and so forth. Then it's the basics, like just dipping

543
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: your toe in. How do I get something as simple

544
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: as a wallet on my phone or computer? And just

545
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: familiarizing yourself with I can, oh, I can download an app?

546
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: What are good apps to download? And if I break

547
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: my phone or delete the app or something, how do

548
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: I actually practically recover access to my fond So just

549
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: getting your mind around that. Those are kind of your

550
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: initial two steps.

551
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: Understanding what a key is and then understanding how to

552
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: back up the.

553
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: Key exactly exactly. And so there's a common misconception, and

554
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: it makes sense with the name that we call a

555
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: bitcoin wallet, people think, oh, my bitcoin's in the wallet.

556
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: That's not exactly how it works. Obviously, bitcoin is just

557
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: a global ledger of who owns one, So what the

558
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: hell's in the wallet? The wallet is a key to

559
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: your money, and so that key you can unlock your

560
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: money and send it wherever you like. And much like

561
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: a key, you can make copies of that key. So

562
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: when you set up a wallet, it'll say write down

563
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: these twelve words and keep them safe. That's literally a

564
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: spare key, and so you can always if you delete

565
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: the app or break the phone, you can go back

566
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: and get those twelve words and access the money again.

567
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: But it's important since your key is information, then nobody

568
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: gets a copy of that information because then they can

569
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: unlock what it unlocks, which is your money. So you know,

570
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: in terms of keys, we're talking about wallets on your

571
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: phone or computer. That would be known as a hot wallet.

572
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: So the keys are on something on a device that

573
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 2: is directly accessing the internet, which is okay for you know,

574
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: day to day spending small amounts stuff like that. Think

575
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: cash in your pocket, that's fine, but you.

576
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: Wouldn't walk around with your life saving in your pocket.

577
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 3: Exactly.

578
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: You're not gonna you're not going to be stacking tens

579
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars into in cash in your pockets.

580
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: And unless you've seen that guy walking around the ten

581
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: sacks together pocket.

582
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so so then what's the next step from there,

583
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: and that would be something called cold storage, and that

584
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: simply means that the keys to your money are on

585
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: a device that never directly connects to the internet, something

586
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: like a cold card or a treasure or a jade

587
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: basically just little devices. I'll hold up one as an example,

588
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 2: but little devices that and they have many different form

589
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: factors where it literally just holds the keys to your

590
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: money and keeps them safe, and when you need to

591
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: access them, you plug it into a computer or scan

592
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: QR codes to communicate whatever it may be, or tap NMC.

593
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: It just allows you to approve transactions. So those are

594
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: kind of your main three things where am I getting bitcoin?

595
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: Learn some basics about hot wallets on your phone, and

596
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: then decide on a piece of hardware to keep yourself secure.

597
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: There's there's more beyond that, yeah, for the you know,

598
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: somebody kicking in your door, but those are your starting points.

599
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, those are good. The other thing I'd say

600
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: is that it too much today. I see that people

601
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: lack any nuance in their thinking. So it doesn't have

602
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: to be one or the other, black or white, Like

603
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: you can have some of it on an exchange, and

604
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: then you could try to pull a little bit off

605
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: and do that and like you already said, like maybe

606
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: some little bits amounts in your hot walt and something's

607
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: in cold water, and so you can start to spread

608
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: this around a little bit. It's like, it doesn't have

609
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: to be all or nothing, you know, start with just

610
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: getting to bitcoin, Like, how about just start with that,

611
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: and then like you said, how about a little bit

612
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: into like hot stories. Okay, okay, now how about a

613
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: little bit in the cold stories. And you're sort of like,

614
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: as you said, dip in your toe in the water,

615
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: and you're sort of learning. And there's trade offs to

616
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: all of these, right, So there's trade offs. So it's

617
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: not one is better than the other, they're better in

618
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: different circumstances. And so understanding that and realizing that whatever

619
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: your stack looks like, it could be split up, you know,

620
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: like I have it in multi sig, I have it

621
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: in a couple different single zigs. I have some on

622
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: a hot wallet, I got some on Venmo, I got

623
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: some on river right like, and it's like kind of

624
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: look spread around, right, and it's all different use cases there.

625
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, and again, as you said, like you

626
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: don't have to go all or nothing right out the gate.

627
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: Everybody learns step by step. And so when I see

628
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 2: people that are criticizing other people for not being fully

629
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 2: self sovereign in the second they get into bitcoin, it's

630
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: it's like, guys, this is not how people learn, and

631
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: we need to realize that if somebody's first foray into bitcoin,

632
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: you're like, all right, step one, you're gonna set up

633
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 2: a bitcoin node, and then you're gonna it's like they're

634
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 2: already two.

635
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 3: Around and out the door.

636
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so you don't want to make fun of

637
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: somebody who's just starting their learning journey. It's like it's

638
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: like making fun of a child learning the alphabet because

639
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: they haven't read human action yet, Like, come on, guys,

640
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: what do we do?

641
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? And I think it's important to like not go

642
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: past your technical limitations. And I made the mistake back

643
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: you know, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, Bitcoin was cheap and

644
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: I was kind of thrown around like chick lits and

645
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: I was paying friends and bitcoin and I'd say, hey,

646
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: download this app. Let me send it to you. But

647
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: I never really gave them the education past that point.

648
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: And years later I check in it like, man, that's

649
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: probably worth a hundred thousand dollars, now do you still

650
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: have that? And they're like I don't even know where

651
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: that phone is anymore or whatever, right, And so it's

652
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: like now today it's like, well, how much time do

653
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: we have to spend with you? How technical do I

654
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: think you are? And I might just tell you just

655
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: to like open up account of river and just buy

656
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: it real quick, you know, or something, and then like

657
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: we can get to the next point later. So I

658
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: think it's important to understand that. But let's just talk

659
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: about the self custody, because that's important and it's scary.

660
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: So most of us are used to keeping money in banks.

661
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: We're used to having somebody else protect that money for us.

662
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: Of course, bitcoin gives us the ability to do that,

663
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: and I think we should. But what would be because

664
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: it is scary, and I'm sure that's why people hire

665
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: you because they're scared, what would you say the biggest

666
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: things that they should be scared of and they should

667
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: just pay attention to.

668
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 2: Right, So, when it comes to when it comes to

669
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: an individual kind of messing up and losing bitcoin, what

670
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 2: are the common things that happen? So one of them

671
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: would be just not being aware of what you've done

672
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: and unlocking yourself out of your bitcoin, screwing up, losing things,

673
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 2: over complicating things in some instances.

674
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: And so what I.

675
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: Typically say to people is, as we alluded to dabble first,

676
00:37:54,719 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 2: become familiar is practice. Try a couple things, send some transactions,

677
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 2: and revisit your setup either maybe every six months, but

678
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 2: once a year is probably good, and just do a

679
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: quick little audit of Okay, I've got this device, I've

680
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 2: got my back up, and this is where they are.

681
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 2: And this person, family member, trusted person is aware of

682
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 2: where I've kept this stuff too, so if something happens

683
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: to me, my family knows where to find it and

684
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: what to do. I do this little audit with my

685
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: wife once a year. We go through and say, okay,

686
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: very important. We want to make sure if anything happens

687
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: to me or both of us, that the kids get

688
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: what they need and all of that. So we just

689
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: go through and we say, okay, this is here, this

690
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: is here, this is how to access it, and we

691
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 2: left a note with family and how to get a

692
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 2: hold of everything.

693
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: That's a great tip, by the way, and that's not

694
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: what I would have expected to hear from you. And

695
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: I just want to pause there because that is super important.

696
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: And myself, I've been guilty of just leaving things too long,

697
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: and I like the fact of refreshing yourself to sharing

698
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: it with your friend's family loved ones. I would add

699
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: a third piece on there. And this is just something

700
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about lately before we start recording. I

701
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: told you I've gotten to the point my kids have

702
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: gotten a litle bit older where I'm not taking my

703
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: wife and we were just coming back from a trip,

704
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,479
Speaker 1: and I was like, what if both of us died?

705
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: And like sure, like my daughter, okay, calls our attorney

706
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: and like, okay, they'll figure out how to get the

707
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: life insurance, and okay, they can figure out how to

708
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: get some of the bitcoin, but what is she gonna

709
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: do with it? Like what is she going to do

710
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: with the money? And even like like what happens in

711
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: the what's the first step, what's the first thirty days?

712
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: What's like so sort of like this set of instructions,

713
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: and then even okay, so now you've got all this money,

714
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: like now what do you do with it? So I've

715
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: started to even think a longer term about creating those

716
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: instructions for them. So peace to add, but anyway, go

717
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: ahead and keep going.

718
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I mean, and again, what I'm talking

719
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: about here is just some of the basics, like if

720
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: you have if you just have like a device in

721
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: a backup then then you would kind of do that

722
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 2: self audit once in a while. You know, we've gone

723
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 2: kind of beyond that. You mentioned multi sig, and we

724
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 2: do indeed use multi sig, And if anybody is listening

725
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: that's unfamiliar with that, think of a regular bitcoin wallet,

726
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 2: as you have a digital vault and you have one

727
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 2: key that opens it, maybe have backup keys just in case.

728
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 2: Multi sig would be like a digital vault that has

729
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: multiple key holes with different keys for each and you

730
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 2: need a certain number of those keys simultaneously to unlock

731
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: your money. So maybe you have three keys and you

732
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: need at least two of those in order to access

733
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 2: the funds. That means you can lose some stuff and

734
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 2: still have access.

735
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: And so it's like a war movie when they want

736
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: to like launch the nukes, they need two keys and

737
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: they have to like turn at the same time.

738
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: Or something exactly exactly, And so it gives you, it

739
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 2: gives you a couple things. So back to the South

740
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: Korea Tax office kicking indoors or whoever kicking indoors. When

741
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: you have a multi sig with multiple keys and you

742
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: disperse those two different locations somebody getting access to one

743
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: key does not give them access to all of your bitcoin.

744
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 2: In fact, there's ways you can set it up where

745
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 2: getting access to one key they don't even know that

746
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: it's part of a multi sig. You could have like

747
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 2: a decoy amount on that. So there's lots of different

748
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: cool things you could do. But nonetheless, we've got set

749
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 2: up a multi sig with kind of an automated inheritance

750
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,959
Speaker 2: part to it that triggers something, and I basically set

751
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 2: it a year in advance, right, and I get a

752
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 2: warning about two months beforehand, and.

753
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 3: This is all.

754
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 2: This is all like I have unilateral control. There's just

755
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 2: an external company that has one key, and so they

756
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 2: can't run off with funds or anything like that. They

757
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: can only help sign a transaction. But it's all automated.

758
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 2: So if something happens to me and I'm not able

759
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 2: to bump that one year threshold forward each year, then

760
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 2: my loved ones will get an email that says your

761
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 2: inheritance is ready to claim download this application. And then

762
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: I provided them with some very basic information. It's like

763
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: three English words and a password, and just by having

764
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: that information they will be able to gain access to

765
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 2: the inheritance that was secured by that.

766
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: Multiple and the company will send them that email with

767
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: those three words you're saying.

768
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can have multiple No, the company doesn't

769
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,959
Speaker 2: have the three words yeah.

770
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: So this is you have to leave some other instructions

771
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: for them to get that from you, and then when

772
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: they get the email from the company, then they'll be

773
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: able to complete that.

774
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 3: Exactly.

775
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 2: I give them the three words and the password, and

776
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 2: I can have multiple copies of this, you know, keep

777
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 2: this safe, keep a secondary copy here, whatever, but multiple

778
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: copies of it. Anybody getting a hold of that information

779
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 2: right now they can do nothing with.

780
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: Well, company, is that with helping that you do with?

781
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: So this is this is nunchunk. These are actually the

782
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: guys that this is the same wallet we use during

783
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: the Canadian truck or protests. And they're the same guys

784
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: that told the Canadian government to go shove it when

785
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 2: they requested a user information.

786
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so they're really Okay, So it's like a

787
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: multi sig. They keep a key. Every year, they send

788
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: you an email. If you don't reply, then they'll send

789
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: email to your loved ones. They have the second key,

790
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: and then they can get access to the funds.

791
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. And so it's it's from from the

792
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: from the person receiving the inheritance is standpoint. It's very simple.

793
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: They get an email it says that they're ready to

794
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 2: receive their inheritance. They type in three words a password,

795
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: they now have access.

796
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: I love it. A lot of services have this these days,

797
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: so if you're listening, you know, just go check with

798
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: a lot of services. I just was talking with River

799
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: that's who I use here in the US, and they

800
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: have something sort of built in. I know, Unchained has

801
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: like an inheritance. So there's a lot of a lot

802
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: of options out there, but it's definitely something I mean,

803
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to wrap your head around, but

804
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: I mean Michael Sailor talks about bitcoin as like a

805
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: thousand year asset, but we could at least think of

806
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: it as like one hundred year asset. Like this is

807
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: going to go a long time, and so you want

808
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: to really be prepared for that. And and because you

809
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: are taking custody of that, you need to make sure

810
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 1: that you know you're able to pass that down. I mean,

811
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, even if you had a bunch of stocks

812
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: and a bunch of accounts, you'd still want that listed

813
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: for your errors, but because of the self custody point,

814
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: it becomes much more a much bigger deal, just real quick,

815
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: for the for the for the advanced users. How do

816
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: we handle the kick down my door wrench attack, I'm

817
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: being interrogated, someone wants to steal my private keys of

818
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: the government.

819
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely So there's a number of things. So,

820
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: I mean, the most resilient thing is a multi suc setup,

821
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: multiple keys, geographically distribute it because in that case, somebody

822
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 2: kick us open your door, you know, they get a

823
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: hold of a key, even if they know for sure

824
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 2: it's part of a multi sig. It's like, yo, you're

825
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: you're buying a plane ticket. Yeah, there's no way for

826
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 2: me to comply with you right now. Now beyond that,

827
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 2: if you if you don't, if you maybe don't have

828
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: the technical expertise for a multi sig yet, or it's

829
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 2: you just don't have it's set up that way yet.

830
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: But you want to make yourself resilient to physical coercion.

831
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 2: You know, I held up this thing earlier. This cold

832
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: card just an example of a hardware device. But some

833
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 2: of these hardware devices have the ability to implement a

834
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: trick pin, so you have a regular pin to log in,

835
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 2: but then you have like a trick pin that does

836
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: something different if you enter it. And what you can

837
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 2: do with those trick pins is on the device I

838
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 2: held up here some of them. If you type it in,

839
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 2: it will look as if the device is blank and

840
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: has never been initiated, or it will take you to

841
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: a decoy wallet with you know, maybe a few thousand

842
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: bucks so they feel like they got something. Or you

843
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 2: can program it to the point where it literally the

844
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 2: bricks the device and deletes all information on it, so

845
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 2: you can have different things. So okay, I'll just put

846
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: in my pin and then it does the thing that

847
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: you programmed it to do.

848
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: Do most devices have that.

849
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 2: There's a bunch so I know that like cold Card,

850
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 2: you can really customize it and set different parameters. I

851
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: believe that Treasure and a couple others have different options.

852
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 2: I know the Ledger has like a different pin will

853
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 2: take you to different accounts. So yeah, there's there's different

854
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 2: ways of doing it.

855
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think of it like I spent a

856
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 1: lot of time in Mexico and from the Mexico border.

857
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: We have a house down there, so I'm done in

858
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: the Mexico a lot. You know. The good and bad

859
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: is that you know, you can typically buy your way

860
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: out of trouble. The bad is they sometimes get you

861
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: into troubles saying this is your money, but you know,

862
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:11,839
Speaker 1: you get it pulled over for speeding and you give

863
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: the guys some money. But what people have done for decades,

864
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: probably even longer, is I'm going to keep a little

865
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: bit of money here and then the rest of my

866
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: money stays hidden over here. So then when you get stopped,

867
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: it's like you pull it out, like this is all

868
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: the money I have. If they search you, it's like

869
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: it's all the money I have, but they get something

870
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: and they feel it's all the money, but they don't

871
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: find the rest of the money. And so that's sort

872
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: of the same concept. And so you know, if you

873
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: were being held captive by some you know, attackers or

874
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: something like that, you can give up a little bit.

875
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: They don't know how much you have. Hopefully they don't

876
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: know how much you have, and so you're like, okay,

877
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 1: well let me open the safe. Okay, like here's my thing,

878
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: and here let's open it up, and okay, it's got

879
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: whatever it's got in there, and you know, and at

880
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: least they get something, they'll probably leave you alone more

881
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: than if you bricked it, and then they're probably really

882
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: mad or whatever. They know you got to backup, you know.

883
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: Now, Now there's an interesting thing here that you mentioned.

884
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: You said, hopefully they don't know how much you have,

885
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: and it does point to you know, another important piece

886
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: of the puzzle is is privacy. And so a lot

887
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: of people don't realize functionally how bitcoin works in the

888
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 2: back end, and and just by using regular bitcoin transactions,

889
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: you can begin to paint a picture for others of

890
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 2: what you own if you're not careful on how you

891
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: how you do that. So you know, there are tools

892
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: that can help you be more private, things like coin join.

893
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: You you know, I was just talking to the samurai

894
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 2: guys that unfortunately are going away here, but but the

895
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 2: tools live on.

896
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: And so besides the mixing services like you're talking about

897
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: coin join, which you know they're getting in trouble for

898
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: what are some basic best practices that somebody could do

899
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: to maintain that privacy. Governments will never stop printing money,

900
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: so inflation, it's not going away now. If your money's

901
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: not earning at least ten percent a year. You're losing

902
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: purchasing power. Now, that's why I talk about bitcoin. It's

903
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: the number one way to beat inflation and secure your future.

904
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: And the question I get asked almost every day is

905
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: where do you buy your bitcoin? Now? For years, I've

906
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: personally used River dot Com and I only take on

907
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: sponsors that I use and I trust, and I trust

908
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: them because River's bitcoin only. They have one hundred percent reserve,

909
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: and they keep your bitcoin safe in cold storage with

910
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: no middlemen, and you can actually talk to a real person,

911
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: a US based support, dedicated manager. Now, try getting that

912
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: peace of mind from coinbase. Of course you can't. Now

913
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: the perks. If you set up auto buys, you can

914
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 1: pay zero fees plus instead of you're bank paying you,

915
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, zero point four percent on cash. River pays

916
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: you three point seventy five percent on cash paid in bitcoin. So,

917
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: if you're ready to build your bitcoin position with confidence,

918
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: go to River dot com, slash Mark Moss and get

919
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: up to one hundred dollars in bitcoin when you sign up.

920
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: Because freedom starts when you own your money, and your

921
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: money starts with bitcoin.

922
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, so if you're using regular bitcoin transaction. So

923
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 2: there's on chain bitcoin, and then there's like layer two,

924
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 2: like lightning trends actually things like that, So regular on

925
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: chain bitcoin transactions there is. There's a concept known as

926
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: coin control or UTXO management, but the general concept is

927
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 2: whenever you receive bitcoin, it's kind of like you're receiving

928
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: a physical bill. And when you look into your bitcoin wallet,

929
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: it's not just a singular balance like a bank account.

930
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 2: It's more like cash, and you can look in you

931
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 2: can see all of the different bills there, and so

932
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 2: when you go to pay somebody, you can think of

933
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 2: it like pulling out a bill. So if you're at

934
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: a corner store and you're buying a candy bar, pulling

935
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 2: out of five dollar bills a big deal. But if

936
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 2: you were to pull out and I know it doesn't exist,

937
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 2: but you pull out a million dollar bill, the clerk

938
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: working at the store sees not only what you're paying

939
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 2: for the candy, but but they see the change, and

940
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 2: there's a real problem there because that person knows that

941
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 2: you have a million dollars and.

942
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: If if I send bitcoin five dollars a bitcoin out

943
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: of my account, they're going to see that there's a

944
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: million dollars in that account.

945
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not always like that, like it's it's

946
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: kind of again your digital wallet. There's individual pieces of

947
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 2: bitcoin in there, and so if you have a wallet

948
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 2: where you can actually see those pieces, you can be

949
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 2: more conscientious in how you're spending your bitcoin. But you know,

950
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: if you think, like you go buy a T shirt

951
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 2: online and you're using a chunk of bitcoin that's sizeable

952
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 2: to buy a twenty or thirty dollars T shirt, and

953
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: this person now knows you have a million dollars and

954
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 2: they have your address which they are shipping the T shirts,

955
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 2: and that may be a compelling reason for them to

956
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: buy a plane ticket and pay you a visit. So

957
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 2: UTXO control or coin control is something that you can

958
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: do very easily just by looking into any wallet that

959
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 2: shows you that stuff, because it's all there.

960
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: It's just the ones you mentioned before, the cold car,

961
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: the treasure they have those.

962
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so you can see that in those you

963
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: can see it. So when I use a hardware device

964
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: like a cold card or a treasure, I actually don't

965
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 2: use the treasure app.

966
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 3: I use.

967
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: I use something called Sparrow wallet on my computer and

968
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 2: it gives me more insight into that the nun Chuck

969
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 2: wallet on mobile will show you that stuff in the background,

970
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,240
Speaker 2: along with a bunch of other ones. So yeah, having

971
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: that is helpful, but i'd see more than that. If

972
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 2: you're spending, jump over to a wallet that gives you

973
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: additional privacy just day to day, and these would be

974
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 2: the Layer two kind of Lightning wallets.

975
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 3: So something like.

976
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 2: Aqua wallet or the bull Bitcoin wallet, or really like

977
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 2: any any lightning wallet as a sender is going to

978
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: give you additional privacy benefits because people can't really trace

979
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: back and see where it came from and what the

980
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: balance was.

981
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: So if you can spend on bit on Lightning on

982
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: layer two, then that solves pretty much all of those issues.

983
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: If you're spending off of your primary, you know, layer

984
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: one address, then you want to make sure you're not

985
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: sending from the wrong address. What about receiving and always

986
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 1: receiving to a new address.

987
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, so this is luckily most bitcoin wallets now

988
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 2: do this by default. But you don't want to just

989
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: have a single bitcoin address that you're always sending.

990
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: What about your business though, I mean, you can't change

991
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: your bitcoin wallet for your business every day, every every

992
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: single payment you receive you can.

993
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 3: You can.

994
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: Indeed, that's not very practical.

995
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: No, it's it's automated. You don't you don't need to

996
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 2: deal with it. So there's a few different tools out there.

997
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 2: But let's say you're a company and you accept bitcoin,

998
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 2: and you do invoices or you have payment pages or whatever.

999
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 2: One of the best kind of OG solutions in the

1000
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 2: space that's fully open sources called BTC pay Server, So

1001
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: you can set up something like that, and what it

1002
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: does is anytime a client goes to pay, it's just

1003
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 2: like a plug in on your website and it will

1004
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 2: generate a brand new Bitcoin address for every single transaction

1005
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 2: and every single client that you have, whether it's an

1006
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 2: invoice or it's like a shop that you have, it

1007
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 2: will do that for you. I myself a way that

1008
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 2: I operate I really enjoy. There's a service called zapp right,

1009
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 2: and zapp right Parker Lewis is behind it and a

1010
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 2: few other guys, and you can basically they've got this

1011
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 2: nice setup where you can create invoices or payment pages

1012
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,879
Speaker 2: or whatever it may be, and they say, okay, well,

1013
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 2: when you receive a payment that's on, where's it going

1014
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 2: to go? And you just copy and paste some information

1015
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 2: and it's your own bitcoin wallet, so they don't. It

1016
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: doesn't zap aright doesn't hold it. It just goes directly

1017
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 2: into your own bitcoin wallet, and it automates a new

1018
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 2: address every single.

1019
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: For the end user to see a new address every

1020
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: time exactly. But then zapright sends it to your same address.

1021
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: So let's just say hypothetically, so you have your.

1022
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 2: No, they don't, they don't send it to your same address.

1023
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: You've provided something called an x pub that that basically

1024
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 2: sits there, and an x pub is the ability to

1025
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 2: generate a new address at will without giving up the

1026
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: credentials to spend.

1027
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so then you have your main account that you're

1028
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: going to receive into because you said you have to

1029
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: pay your bills and then you keep whatever's left. So

1030
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 1: you're going to have your main account that it's received into,

1031
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: but the customer sees a fresh address, and then when

1032
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: it goes through zapp right, that's going to generate it

1033
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: a fresh address, and then nobody will ever see your

1034
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: main address that goes into.

1035
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and while my main address and the zapp right,

1036
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 2: there's no like sing main address. There's a you can

1037
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 2: think of it like it's almost like the in the

1038
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 2: in the analogy or the metaphor of like the digital vault.

1039
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 2: It's like there's infinite number of slots that people can

1040
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: slide cash into and they don't realize it's all for

1041
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 2: the same vault. And so that's what I'm giving zap

1042
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 2: right on the website there where I send out my invoices,

1043
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 2: Zapright basically just has the ability to say, hey, this

1044
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 2: is use this slot to slide in some cash into

1045
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: this person's digital vault, and the person doesn't see that

1046
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: it's it's all just mine. They know what they're paying me,

1047
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 2: but they don't know the other addresses that I've used.

1048
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 2: I've actually automated mind so that the second I receive

1049
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 2: a payment through zap right, uh, it's automated. So as

1050
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: soon as it lands, it gets coin joined and automatically flows.

1051
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:53,800
Speaker 3: Into my cold card.

1052
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: Wow yees.

1053
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 2: So it's like I get paid, it's already pretty good

1054
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: because it's a new address for a person, but then

1055
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 2: it gets coin joined and then it goes into cold storage,

1056
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 2: so I don't even have to touch it.

1057
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 3: I send an invoice and all of that just happens.

1058
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: Got it. Well, that's a wealth of knowledge, and I

1059
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: think that's something for everybody. Number One, you have the

1060
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: ability to take custody, you should. Number two you can

1061
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: ease into it. Number three so much more advanced tools.

1062
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: Let me ask you one more question. You got time?

1063
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah.

1064
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: So you know, there's another thesis that I'm sure you're

1065
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: well down the rabbit hole in, and that is that

1066
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: Sotoshi actually created two digital scarcities at once. Number one

1067
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: which is the twenty one million coins, but number two

1068
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: is the block space, and that means that there's only

1069
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: about as of today, and I'm sure technology changes, but

1070
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: I think there's about four hundred thousand transactions per day

1071
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: that can fit into the ten minute block. Now probably

1072
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: with some UTXO management and some AI software, maybe we

1073
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: double triple quadruple that, but we're still limited, and so

1074
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: eight billion people aren't going to be able to use that.

1075
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: And so it seems like most people, as we get

1076
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: further along, actually will probably never be on the main

1077
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: layer one and will never actually self custody and will

1078
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: never do this, And so I'm just curious, Number one,

1079
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: do you believe that to be true? And then if so,

1080
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: then number two, why push everybody into self custody, knowing

1081
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: that in the hopefully not too far off future, that

1082
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 1: might all just go away.

1083
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1084
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: No, this is a good question. And what I believe

1085
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 2: is one, I think you're right. Obviously not every single

1086
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: person is going to be accessing on chain bitcoin and

1087
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 2: holding utxo's themselves. And two also true, most people their

1088
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 2: interactions with bitcoin are going to be in terms of

1089
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 2: being self sovereign, will be layer two solutions.

1090
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 3: So two implications there.

1091
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: One is these on chain kind of privacy metrics we're

1092
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 2: talking about, that goes away because the layer two stuff

1093
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 2: already gives the end user much better privacy, So that's

1094
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: a win. But then how do we deal with the

1095
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 2: idea of self custody? And so I think a couple

1096
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,919
Speaker 2: things are going to come to fruition. One is going

1097
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 2: to be the idea of non ruggable small community solutions,

1098
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 2: kind of like federations. We see a good example of

1099
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: something like this right now would be the Liquid network,

1100
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: and it's quite large obviously comparatively in terms of amount

1101
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 2: of funds, but the idea being that you have very

1102
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 2: identifiable keyholders that are you know, throughout the community or

1103
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 2: geographically dispersed or whatever, but you need a large threshold

1104
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 2: of those people to collude and work together to rug

1105
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 2: pull the community, which vastly reduces Like would I would

1106
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 2: I trust an individual or a single company with my bitcoin?

1107
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: No?

1108
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 2: Would I trust a combination of twenty different entities that

1109
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,959
Speaker 2: seventeen of them won't collude together in order to rug

1110
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 2: pull me?

1111
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 3: Maybe?

1112
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 2: And so I think things like that are going to

1113
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 2: come up, whether it be you know, feediment is an

1114
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: example of that. But there is also going to be

1115
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 2: the ability, and there currently is with some layer two solutions,

1116
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: the ability of having part ownership of a single UTX

1117
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 2: or a single piece of bitcoin like the bills I

1118
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 2: was talking about in your wallet, where you aren't incurring

1119
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: on chain transactions and fees by transacting, but if you

1120
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 2: ever wanted to, you could unilaterally exit and take your

1121
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: bitcoin with you on chain. It may be an expensive

1122
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 2: endeavor to do so, and you probably avoid that typically,

1123
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 2: but it cuts down on the amount of transactions day

1124
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 2: to day that are happening, and those are mainly reserved

1125
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 2: for large movements of capital, and you can transact in

1126
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 2: a layer two way that's more private, doesn't incur fees

1127
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 2: or incurs very very low fees, but it still gives

1128
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 2: you the ability at any point to unilaterally exit to

1129
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 2: on chain.

1130
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 3: So these are the kinds of things that we're looking

1131
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 3: at dem On Loot.

1132
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: So then the answer is that there will be solutions

1133
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: at some point when there needs to be solutions for that.

1134
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: Until then, custody your own bitcoin, manage it, and then

1135
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: when the problem arises where the block space is too valuable,

1136
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: too expensive, then you can move into a different solution.

1137
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 2: We are witnessing creation of an entirely new monetary system,

1138
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 2: and we have the growing pains of seeing the ground level,

1139
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 2: the foundation of that being built using the equivalent of

1140
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 2: worldwide physical gold settlement for day to day transactions right now,

1141
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 2: and then seeing each layer being built and then having

1142
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,439
Speaker 2: to hop to the next layer and learn the next

1143
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 2: new thing. Whereas in the future people will just come in.

1144
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 2: It will be an easily fully established thing and they

1145
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 2: won't have to learn, oh, this is how the base layer,

1146
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 2: and then the second layer and the third layer, they'll

1147
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 2: just use it.

1148
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good spot to end. Ben, We're gonna

1149
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: We're gonna stop it there again, like you're a wealth

1150
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 1: of knowledge. I was telling you, I think before we

1151
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: start recording. I get asked all the time, you know,

1152
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: because I make so much bitcoin content, and they're like,

1153
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: you know, help me with security or explain these things

1154
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: to me. And I'm just like, go watch BTC sessions,

1155
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: like because you just your channel is full of airy

1156
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: tutorial I know you also help people, so you have

1157
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: a service that does that, which these expensive mistakes to make,

1158
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: don't make them. I highly advise getting someone to help

1159
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:05,919
Speaker 1: you with that. Where do you want to point people

1160
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 1: to what should be people will be watching for from you?

1161
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course you can. You can find me on YouTube.

1162
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 2: You can just search BTC Sessions and we've got shows

1163
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,439
Speaker 2: coming all the time, and we've got tutorials every single

1164
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 2: week and you can look through.

1165
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 3: There's playlists and stuff that you can check out.

1166
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 2: But if you want to one kind of find an

1167
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: easy place that will take you step by step through

1168
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: some tutorials on the learn page and everything, just head

1169
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 2: to btcsessions dot Ca and on the same page if

1170
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 2: you do want some more one on one help, I've

1171
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 2: got a team of Bitcoin mentors that I've kind of

1172
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 2: hand picked and trained and we can help you through

1173
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: making sure that you're set up as rock solid, that

1174
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 2: you're not making mistakes, that you're not forgetting things, and

1175
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 2: that you're you're resilient and private and secure. So yeah,

1176
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,959
Speaker 2: BTC Sessions dot ca A is where you can find

1177
01:03:58,000 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: us and you can book some one on ones.

1178
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: All right, cool, we'll wrap it up with that.

1179
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Thanks Mark, appreciate it.