1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:01,200 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 2: Any real success you have in music is going to 3 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 2: be word of mouth. 4 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 3: Right. Yes, you can push things down people's throats, but 5 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 3: you know, if you've got enough money. 6 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, most people pick 7 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: up what they really love from their friends, and so 8 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: it's going to be either digitally passing around that way 9 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: or physically. And we were just among the first people 10 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: to be like, no, we just want to do it. 11 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: We just want people to email us to their friends. 12 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 3: It worked. 13 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, where Buzz Night 14 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: explores the musical path of artists of all shapes and sizes. 15 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: And today Buzz is joined by someone who's been making 16 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: waves in the music industry for over two decades with 17 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: his band okay Go. Damian Kulash is not only the 18 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: lead vocalist and guitarist, but also the mastermind behind some 19 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: of the most innovative music videos of our time. From 20 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: the viral Treadmill Dance and here it Goes again to 21 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: the gravity, defying antics and upside down and inside out, 22 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: okay Go has consistently pushed the boundaries of creativity. Let's 23 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,919 Speaker 1: join Damien with Buzz Night on the Taking a Walk Podcast. 24 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 4: Damiens. So great to have you on the Taken a 25 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 4: Walk podcast. Thank you so. 26 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: Much, thank you for having me. 27 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 4: So since the podcast is called taking a Walk, I 28 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 4: want to ask you if you could take a walk 29 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 4: with someone living or dead, who would you take a 30 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 4: walk with? Then? Where do you think you might take that? 31 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 4: Little Saunter? 32 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: I think I'm just saying this because you ended with Saunter, 33 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: but maybe George Saunders. I'm I'm a big I'm a 34 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: big fan of his writing. And I mean, it's just 35 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: there are too many people I'd wanted to meet for 36 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: me to keep, for me to really give you a 37 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: single answer, And that's the one that popped into my head. 38 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: That is for obvious reasons. But I am a huge, 39 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: huge fan. And where would we go? H? I think 40 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: it would be interesting to watch tourists with him. I 41 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: think he's I love his take on he's a writer, 42 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: of course, he writes short stories and they're all they're 43 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: all very. 44 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: Sort of playfully surreal. 45 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: And and and and sort of a little bit sardonic. 46 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: And I love his take on humanity. And I think 47 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: it would be very fun to to play that, like 48 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 2: what do you think that person does? 49 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: Game with him and watch his brain go, which. 50 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 4: Is a great game. I love the answer and I 51 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 4: love the person and thank you for that. So appreciate it. 52 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 4: So we got a lot to talk about here. We're 53 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 4: going to talk about the two new tracks. First of all, 54 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 4: take me with you, this is how it ends, and 55 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 4: the new the Adjacent Possible as well. The tour got 56 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 4: a lot of stuff to talk about. You are a 57 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 4: busy band and a busy lad, but can you talk 58 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 4: about upbringing in Washington and how it shaped you musically? 59 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 3: Yeah. I grew up in Washington, d C. 60 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 2: During my most formative musical period around early high school 61 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: and high school in general. It was an incredibly good 62 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: place for DIY punk rock, and it was so it 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: was so inclusive and it invited people in so much 64 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: that I think I really have that to thank for 65 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: a career in music and a career in the arts 66 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: in general. I was the kind of kid who always 67 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: wanted to make stuff, and I spent a lot of 68 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: time with legos and a lot of time drawing. And 69 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: usually when I was doing either those, I was listening 70 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: to music on my walkman and and you know, my 71 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: earliest memories are of music from the early eighties and 72 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: then the late eighties, and that stuff was, you know, 73 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: heavily heavily influenced by a love of Prince and depeche 74 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: Mode and Run DMC, and it's it was all really 75 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: really wonderful music, but also music that did not scream 76 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 2: out to you you two could make this, right. 77 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 3: I mean, Run DMC didn't seem like it was made 78 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 3: by humans at all. 79 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 2: Because there's so much sampling, you know, sort of like 80 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I had access into. 81 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 3: Being a rapper, you know. 82 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: And depeche Mode didn't seem like it was made by 83 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: humans at all. You know, everything is everything is completely 84 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: electronic and synth. And Prince doesn't really seem like it's 85 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: made by humans at all. Even though he's technically a human. 86 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: He sees so much better than other humans at playing that. Like, 87 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: it's sort of these all seemed too perfect, you know. 88 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: By the time I got to high school, I think 89 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 2: I fell into the into the idea of playing my 90 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: own music because of Pixies and and and the sort 91 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: of brokenness in their music and and how how you 92 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: could how one a single chord kind of misplayed and 93 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: struck over and over again, could could uh speak my 94 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: rage as well as perfection of Run DMC ever could 95 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: you Know? And Fugazi and Minor Threat and shut Her 96 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,119 Speaker 2: to Think and all these bands that were DC punk 97 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: rock legends, they were doing. 98 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: That right in front of me there in d C. 99 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: And and they all all shows were all ages, all 100 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: shows were five dollars, and it was it was something 101 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 2: that was sort of levied across the city by Ian Mackay, 102 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 2: who ran Discord Records. And because of that ethos that 103 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 2: that they and he sort of spread across the city 104 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 2: my understanding of music. Like, as soon as I started 105 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: spending time at those shows, I was going, oh wait, 106 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 2: I could I can do this? I can This is 107 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: something I could try. And and in fact, anything you 108 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: want to make you should just try figuring out a 109 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 2: way to make it. Like you'll never be Prints, that's fine, 110 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: You'll never be run DMC, that's fine. You'll never be 111 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: depeche Mode, that's fine, you'll. 112 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 3: Never even be Pixies. 113 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 2: But you know what, Fugazi is standing right in front 114 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: of you doing something pretty awesome, you know. 115 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 3: And and and. 116 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: That was a that was a it really made me 117 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 2: want to be involved and make stuff. And I think 118 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 2: it gave me a sense of sort. 119 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 3: Of being in charge of my own creative future. 120 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: That that I you know, it might even be unrealistic 121 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 2: to give kids that much belief in themselves, but I'm 122 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: so happy that they did. You know, like we wound 123 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: up on a major label which would have been which 124 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: which is anathema to the whole discord scene. But as 125 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: the world changed and shifted, I do feel like it 126 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: prepared me for the idea that records aren't going to 127 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 2: sell anymore. Go do something else, you know, like and 128 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 2: and record labels aren't going to support you. Go do 129 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: something else, and so of. 130 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 3: Doing it our own way and. 131 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 2: Not worrying about the system too much definitely is a 132 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: direct direct result of that DC upbringing. 133 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 3: Sorry, that was still a long and weird answer. 134 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 4: Perfect answer, not long. That's why we're here. We got time. 135 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 4: Tell me what's your grandfather though meant to you in 136 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 4: terms of your amazing creative force? 137 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: Wow, you've done your homework. Thank you. 138 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: My grandfather, Well, I had two grandfathers. I only met 139 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: one of them. My father's father was a studied bugs. 140 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 3: That's not pale intelligence. Say what, oh boy, I've lost 141 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 3: it again. 142 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: My father's father father discovered a click beetle. So somewhere 143 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: out there there is a specimen. In fact, I've seen 144 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: the specimen in the Smithsonian of the I think it's 145 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: Glycolix Kulashi. It is wonderful man, but I never met him. 146 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: He died when my father was still a teenager. My 147 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: mother's father invented the modern fish stick. He was a 148 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: He was a a biochemist, and he was the one 149 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: who discovered that if you if you freeze fish a 150 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: particular way, you can keep it into rectangular form even 151 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: after it's been cooked. 152 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 4: He also was it not amazing. 153 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: It's amazing, isn't it? And he was. He was such a. 154 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: Ball of life and such a wonderful, wonderful man. He 155 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: had fourteen grandkids, and he would torture us all in 156 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 2: such a joyful and wonderful way. 157 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 3: I I remember he would. 158 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: He would stomp around outside giving us candy till until 159 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: we were all worked up into like, you know, this 160 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: insane hyper state, and then just hand us back on 161 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 2: it and hand us back to our parents and get pissed. 162 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 3: It was great. Anyway, I won't take you down that 163 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: rabbit hole. But he also he was very fond. 164 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: Of of of my creativity and very supportive of it. 165 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: And I remembered when and I remember. 166 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 2: When I was a teenager reading a pamphlet that Simple Machines, 167 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: a record label outside of DC, had put out. It 168 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: was a five page pample, and I think that said here, like, 169 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: here's how you can put out your own records, and 170 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: it had all of the It was basically just a 171 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: rollot X for who you have to call, you you 172 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: need to you'll need it mastered. Here are the three 173 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: vinyl mastering houses, and that it still exists in the US. 174 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: That kind of stuff, and a simple budgeting for it. 175 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: It takes about you couldn't make a record for I 176 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: think less than about five or seven hundred dollars in 177 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: the late nineties, and I remember thinking, well, I don't 178 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 2: have five or seven hundred dollars, but I really do 179 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: want to make a record, And so I took a 180 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: loan from my grandfather, who was just so excited that 181 00:09:51,960 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: he could he could support my young entrepreneurial and musical endeavors, 182 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: and put out a record for my friend's band, and 183 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 2: we sold just enough to pay back my grandfather, and 184 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: that actually inspired me to I was like Okay, now 185 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: we're going to put something. 186 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 3: Now we're gonna do a CD. 187 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: And I walked up to Ian MacKaye's house or the 188 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: Discord house. It wasn't actually where he lives, but Discord 189 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 2: Records was how. They were in a house in Arlington, 190 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: and I walked up to the house and asked him 191 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: if I could have a loan, and Ian Mackay, like 192 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 2: the godfather of DC punk rock, was like, yeah, sure, 193 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: and he gave me a couple I think it was 194 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: two thousand dollars to support this CD, which was it 195 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: was a benefit CD raising money for this small school 196 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: in Haiti, which I had learned about through my school. 197 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: And I remember saying like, don't I. 198 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 2: Need to sign some kind of contract or something, And 199 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: he's like, no, I have about five thousand dollars that 200 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: I used to support local scene stuff like this. Do 201 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: you want to be the kid who stops that from happening? 202 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,359 Speaker 2: That was that was the only only. 203 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 3: Assurance he needed the money would get paid back. 204 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: And I put out this this CD, which with you know, 205 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 2: sort of it was just kind of like b sides 206 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: and rarities and stuff from a bunch of DC punk 207 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: rock bands. But I just wanted so badly to be 208 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: involved in that scene, you know, like it was just 209 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 2: so awesome all the stuff that people were making, and 210 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 2: I was, you know, all my free time was spent 211 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: at these shows that were in cafeterias and churches and 212 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: you know, clubs, and it was just like this very 213 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: very inclusive scene, and I was so impressed with what 214 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 2: everyone was doing, and I wanted to be part of it, 215 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: you know. 216 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 4: But creativity is one thing, but creative resilience is another. 217 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 4: And when I think of, you know, over the career 218 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 4: of the band, your career right up to the present, 219 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 4: the Amazing a Stone only Rolls Downhill video project, but 220 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 4: all of the work that's you know, so visually stunning, 221 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 4: that's not only creativity, that's creative resilience. So the resilience 222 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 4: came from somebody, didn't it. 223 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: I This is a hard thing to put into words. 224 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: I guess I've just the fascination with making stuff has 225 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: always been a dance with myself, if that makes sense. 226 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: Like you're always trying to make something that brings you 227 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: some sense of wonder and that is definitionally kind of 228 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 2: at the edge of your own abilities. There are wonderful 229 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 2: types of creativity and sort of emotional release that always 230 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: work right, like a one, four or five progression in 231 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: a pop song. 232 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 3: It's just a beautiful feeling. 233 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: But the first time you discover it is you make 234 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: the world's greatest punk song, the world's greatest beatles song, 235 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 2: the world's greatest pop song, because you're just discovering it 236 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 2: and you feel how amazing that is. It still feels 237 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: great when you're when you've been playing it for twenty years, 238 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: but it doesn't have that urgency anymore, right, And it's 239 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: that that sort of sense of mystery and magic when 240 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 2: you first discover something. 241 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 3: It's just different and so pushing to your own limits. 242 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 2: There's something like required if you're that's not the right 243 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,599 Speaker 2: way to say it. There's the most magical stuff is 244 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: always going to be kind of at the edge of 245 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 2: your limits, and that means it's always going to require 246 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: some resiliency to get there that you're never it's never 247 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: going to be something you can do on the first try, 248 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 2: or rather, if you did it on the first try, 249 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 2: you wouldn't know how to to value it because you 250 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: wouldn't realize how hard it was, right, And I guess 251 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: there's you know, it's it's the good side of perfectionism, 252 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: and there's a bad side to it also, which is 253 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: a like you're never happy with what you've done, and 254 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 2: there's always something you could have done better, and there's 255 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: and no matter how perfectly you sink the shot, you 256 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: think of the ways you could have sunk it better, 257 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: you know, and I guess you know. Tying this back 258 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: into the stuff we've been talking about, the dance between 259 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: that and the broken chord of a Pixie song is 260 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: that's kind of life, right, Like that's it's all about, 261 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: like getting yourself loose enough to just enjoy the emotional 262 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: flow of a broken Pixies chord, but also having enough 263 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: of a neocortical higher brain out there going like, wait 264 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: a second, you could you could you could do this better, right, 265 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: or maybe I could learn to play this better and 266 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 2: get a little bit more like Prince. 267 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 4: Which speaks to the constant state of musical transformation that 268 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 4: the band continues to go through. It's not just comfortable 269 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 4: in one spot. You look over to the next place 270 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 4: that you're going to take it, and that, to me 271 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 4: is one of the things I admire so much about 272 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 4: what you do and the band does it's it's not 273 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 4: ever a question of well, how Damien does the band evolve, 274 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 4: or it's because you always are evolving. That's you. You 275 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 4: live it and. 276 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: Do it well. 277 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: I would say, you know, I sometimes envy bands that 278 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: have a more clear brand, I mean music like you 279 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: know from the outside where that video band, I've got 280 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: that brand covered. But you know, when you hear a 281 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: Stroke song, you know it's a Stroke song. Right when 282 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: you hear a Pixie song, you know it's a Pixie song. 283 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: When you hear an Elliot Smith song, you know it's 284 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: Elliot Smith. And those are all bands I think are 285 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: and artists who I think are incredible. It's nothing, but 286 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 2: there's a there's a specific bullseye they're aiming for each time. 287 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: I guess it's because this all started for me at 288 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: being a fan first and foremost that I'm half the time, 289 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 2: well not even half, I'm some of the times pulled 290 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 2: towards that Prince reference, some of the times pulled towards 291 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: the Fugazi reference, some of the times pulled towards the 292 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: Pixies reference, and usually some mix of them that I'm 293 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: not even aware of anymore. 294 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 3: But they're not You wind up with a mixtape of 295 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 3: influences that. 296 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: That's what you are, right and maybe to the outside 297 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: world it is it is more cohesive than I think. 298 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: But I remember turning our first demos into labels, you know, 299 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety seven or something, and get getting the 300 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: response that this is great, but pick a style, and 301 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: that felt to me like what you know, that's like 302 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: being like only paint with one color. I guess it 303 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: worked for a Picasso for a while, you know. 304 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 3: But it just there's we live. 305 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: Maybe it's growing up in this era where where the 306 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: past is accessible and now it's much more so than 307 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: it was, of course in the eighties and nineties. But 308 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 2: you could be influenced by jazz, and you could be 309 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 2: in influenced by hip hop, and you could be influenced 310 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: by rock and roll, whether that meant led Zeppelin or 311 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: it meant Minor Threat, you know. And and there was 312 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: so much to fall in love with and be moved by. 313 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 2: And now that's only gotten more the case that you 314 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: can discover Billie Eilish and Billie Holliday back to back. 315 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 3: You know, they're both right there on your phone, streaming. 316 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 2: Off whatever platform it is you're using, and that was 317 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 2: hard but possible. 318 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 3: I mean, Billy Elish didn't exist yet, but. 319 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: The point that type of cross pollination was possible when 320 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: you had to walk into Tower Records, and it just 321 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: wasn't possible before that, you know, I guess I have 322 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 2: this sort of feeling that like why it feels so 323 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 2: arbitrary to be stuck in one mode as a maker 324 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 2: of things, as. 325 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 3: A consumer of things. 326 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 2: I know, when you know, if I'm sad, it's time 327 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: to put on Elliott Smith, you know, and I'm not 328 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: quite sure what to do with a band that kind 329 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: of is all over the place, and you know, it's 330 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: a it's the balance between whether I'm making things for 331 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: me or for everybody else, and you can see which 332 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: one I chose because we're all over the place. 333 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more the Taking a Walk Podcast. 334 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. Yeah. 335 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 4: I like the well, I don't know how to necessarily 336 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 4: describe this music, this art that to me makes it 337 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 4: special because you know, the formula world that we live 338 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 4: in is you know, gets boring. So I like the 339 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 4: fact that it's it's it's a special trait to be 340 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,239 Speaker 4: hard to always put a complete handle on it, you know, 341 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 4: and the independence that's involved, which clearly leads me to 342 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 4: leaving Capital Records, was a major part of the continued 343 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 4: independence of you and the band, wouldn't you say? 344 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 3: Oh Yeah? 345 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: And definitely something I have yet again to thank Ian 346 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 2: mackay and DC for is that being on a major 347 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 2: label in the first place, I kind of always felt 348 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: like I had one toe in because I was sort 349 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: of scared of the whole corporate system. Appropriately scared because 350 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: I had been raised on this sort of countercultural like 351 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 2: we don't need that, you know. I don't think a 352 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 2: better thing could have happened to us if our first record, 353 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: the single was a song called get Over It. 354 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 3: It was a sort of medium sized radio hit. 355 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 2: It was top forty, but it wasn't top ten, you know, 356 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 2: which is enough for the label to decide you get 357 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: a second album, but not enough for. 358 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 3: Them to pour tons of money on promoting it, right, And. 359 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 2: I couldn't be more thankful to Capital for promoting and 360 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 2: giving us a chance in the first place. 361 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 3: I don't mean to be ungrateful for that, but. 362 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 2: It does mean that come by the time we were 363 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 2: making our second record, we weren't a priority. They were 364 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 2: just sort of throwing it out there to see if 365 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: it stuck, you know, and it didn't. At first, they 366 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: made a video and it was We toured for eighteen months, 367 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 2: I believe it was before and you know, people were 368 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 2: coming out to shows, but we weren't the Next Strokes 369 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 2: by any means. And that's when we put out a 370 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 2: little video of our own of us dancing on treadmills, 371 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 2: which wasn't even real, like it was just sort of 372 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 2: a goof for our nerdiest fans. It was like we 373 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 2: thought we had we knew of a particular kind of 374 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 2: like mode of internet fan that we had, which was 375 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 2: a which was a minority back then, right. It was 376 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 2: like you didn't expect people to discover you through the Internet. 377 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 2: They were buying CDs, you know, but we did have 378 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 2: this sort of nerdy fan base that we were like. 379 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 3: We'll make them this ridiculous thing, and that exploded. 380 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 2: It just so happened that we were That happened right 381 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 2: at the birth of YouTube and VH one picked it 382 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 2: up and all this stuff, and so suddenly we had one. 383 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 3: Foot in both camps. 384 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 2: We were, you know, we were the most played thing 385 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: on v H one and MTV at the same time 386 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 2: that we were sort of the reason that they were 387 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: getting given up for YouTube and and it was huge, 388 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: and we had a you know, it was a Grammy, 389 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 2: and it was we were We've toured for another sixteen 390 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 2: months straight after that. I mean it was more than 391 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: two and a half years that we were on the 392 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: road without ever stopping with that album. And so we 393 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 2: were walking our asses off and super happy about the success, 394 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 2: but also really really tired. And when we went to 395 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 2: make our third record, it was already clear that that 396 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 2: we were going to be that We're now that video band. Worse, 397 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: we might just be that treadmill band. But we figured like, okay, 398 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 2: we've this is a this is an interesting corner of. 399 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 3: The world to now in habit. 400 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 2: We've got we did things a different way, and that 401 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 2: is and we get to keep doing that. It's really 402 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: hard to get any permission to do things the wrong 403 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: way generally, and once you've established that you know how 404 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 2: to do things the wrong way and it'll work man, 405 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: double down, you know. And so we went back to 406 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 2: the label and we were like, Okay, for the next album, 407 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 2: we want to make a video for every song, and 408 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 2: they says, great, idea, let's do it. And then when 409 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 2: we started to ask them to pay the bills for 410 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 2: those videos. 411 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 3: They're like, I don't know, you know, we weren't asking 412 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 3: for much money. 413 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 2: It was just like a little bit, and they just basically, 414 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 2: I think it wasn't a good fit, right, Like, we 415 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: wanted to do things the quote unquote wrong way, and 416 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: they liked that in theory, but they didn't actually want 417 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 2: to do the work of doing it the wrong way. 418 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 2: And so they amicably let us go. They were just like, look, 419 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: take your record back and get out of our hair. 420 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: And we did. 421 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 3: And it was the greatest thing that ever happened to. 422 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 2: Us because it meant that we could keep doubling down 423 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 2: on this type of creativity and this type of in 424 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: this business model, which was sort of like road Runner 425 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: off the cliff, right, just keep making things for this 426 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: new new millennium of technology, Like we're going to make 427 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: stuff that that that people will pass around via link 428 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: rather than pass around via trading vinyl records or making 429 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 2: or making mixtapes. And I mean, you know, it's always 430 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 2: going to be any real success you have in music 431 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: is going to be word of mouth. 432 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 3: Right, There's yes, you can push things down people's throats. 433 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 3: But you know, if you've got enough money. 434 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, most people pick 435 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: up what they really love from their friends, and so 436 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 2: it's going to be either digitally passing around that way 437 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: or physically. 438 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 3: And we were just. 439 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 2: Among the first people to be like, no, we just 440 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,959 Speaker 2: want to do it. We just want people to email 441 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: us to their friends. 442 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 3: It worked. 443 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 4: So take us inside to the new project and how 444 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 4: it all came together, and what differs in that sort 445 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 4: of songwriting creation, you know, production creation from previous work. 446 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 2: I would say the only the only difference that I 447 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 2: think runs through the whole new record. 448 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 3: It's it's subtle, but it's real. 449 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 2: Is is just I don't think we're trying to plant 450 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 2: a flag anymore. It's nice to be coming back to 451 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 2: this as a quote unquote adult. You know, the band 452 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 2: took an unexpected hiatus for many years at first because 453 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: Andy and I both had children around the same time 454 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: and both of us really didn't want to be touring 455 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 2: when our when our kids were young. And then my 456 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 2: wife and I and then there was a pandemic and 457 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 2: my wife and I made a narrative film. We we 458 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: directed a film called The Beanie Bubble, which was on 459 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: Apple a year and a half ago, two. 460 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 3: Years, and that meant that it's like. 461 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 2: By the time we got back to making our record, 462 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: which it never felt like we really stopped. 463 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 3: We were just doing other things at the same time. 464 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 2: And by the time we got back there, it had 465 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 2: been almost ten years since our last and there was 466 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 2: that sort of caused the kind of break you now, 467 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: it's too it's too. 468 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 3: Long since we did the last thing to. 469 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 2: Quote unquote keep it going, you know, you're just sort 470 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 2: of not chasing something in the same way. It's just 471 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: kind of like, look, people are gonna people will they 472 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 2: either like what we do. 473 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 3: Or they don't. But it's it's pretty known what we 474 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,959 Speaker 3: do at this point. And rather than sort of like 475 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 3: planting the flag going we're. 476 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 2: The type of band that X Y or Z even 477 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 2: saying we're the creative band or where the video band 478 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 2: or where the whatever, it just it stops being away. 479 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: You define yourself, I guess once you get to a 480 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 2: certain point in your career, and so the music itself 481 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: feels more just free flowing from who we are as people. 482 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 2: I think it just it feels more honest, not that 483 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: I ever felt dishonest before, but I think, you know 484 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 2: what I mean, there's a sort of like ease with 485 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: which it just came out of us. 486 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,239 Speaker 3: And I am more proud of this record that I 487 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 3: have been with any we've made so far because of that. 488 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 3: It just feels more like us and I love it 489 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 3: so do. 490 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 4: Why when I think of take me with You, or 491 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 4: this is how it ends, or just some of the 492 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 4: other themes running through, you know, the entire project, is 493 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 4: it fair to say there is a theme that's underlying 494 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 4: that it's about finding hope in the midst of some 495 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 4: of the craziness that's that we're living with. And did 496 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 4: that if that's true, did that come from the COVID period? 497 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 2: I think what's interesting is I feel like I've said 498 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 2: this with every album we've released that it's been like, 499 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 2: this is a these are these are prayers for hope 500 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 2: in a really dark time. It's just the times keep 501 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 2: getting darker, so the prayers keep getting more extreme in 502 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 2: the sense that the only thing that I feel I 503 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: can offer right now is that human connection that I. 504 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 3: Get when I listen to music that soothes my soul. 505 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: Right that there's sometimes you need a song that's as 506 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: sad as you are when you're sad, and sometimes you 507 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: need a song that recognizes your sadness and also can 508 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 2: pull you out of it, and. 509 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 3: We do a little bit of both. 510 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: I think I'm enough of a cynic that our music, 511 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 2: my lyrics are always a little bit reflective of the 512 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 2: darkness of the world around us. But the music itself 513 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 2: is mostly pretty buoyant and pretty bright. Not entirely, but 514 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 2: I guess I would put it in the vein of 515 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: like Elvis Costello or something where it's like, there can 516 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: be pretty cutting lyrics along with something that you just 517 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 2: want to. 518 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 3: Bop your head. Do you know if this record has 519 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 3: gone even farther. 520 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 2: Into that territory where there's some songs that are just 521 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: all about hope and some songs that are all about 522 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: how hopeless, it seems that might be more reflective of 523 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: being a father than it is of COVID. I think 524 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 2: having kids has been the most I have twins and 525 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 2: they're six years old, about to be seven, and it 526 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:15,239 Speaker 2: opens you up to the emotional world again. As you know, 527 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 2: of course, we've all heard this a million times from parents, 528 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 2: but it what I guess I wasn't expecting, was not 529 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: just that it's sort of when you feel wonder you're 530 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: feeling it through their eyes, but that new wings of 531 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 2: old emotions open up, like like the dream you have 532 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 2: when you are back in your old childhood home. But 533 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: then suddenly there's a door, and behind that door there's 534 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: a whole new wing of warehouse or a ballroom. 535 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 3: You know, and there's something and you just sort of 536 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 3: find yourself like, what. 537 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 2: Is this right well, that feeling of love which I 538 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: think I have known my whole life. I suddenly there's 539 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 2: a whole new wing of love that has opened up, 540 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 2: and it's familiar but surprising and new all the same. 541 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: And it makes the the the stakes of the world 542 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 2: so much higher that not just you know, kind of 543 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: like what world are we leaving to our kids, but 544 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 2: just you feel how abject horror can be when the 545 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: world isn't safe, and how unbelievably. 546 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 3: Warm and cozy and assuring it can be when the 547 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 3: right song is on. 548 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: You know, it's like everything that my kids at this 549 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: age are not bounded by their upper brains. You know, 550 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 2: there's no guardrails on their emotions. They're swinging from, you know, 551 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: from the world's greatest highst to the world's lowest lows, 552 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 2: all in the space of ten minutes, and it really 553 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 2: opens you back up. 554 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 4: I excited as an artist. Are you to take the 555 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 4: work from and the adjacent possible out on the road? 556 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 3: Oh? Man, I can't wait. It's it's so it's been 557 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 3: a long time. 558 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 2: We played a few shows last summer and it was 559 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,959 Speaker 2: a little taste of how fun it will be to 560 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 2: go back out. 561 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 3: We're playing, you know, because of our families. 562 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: We're not doing you know, thirteen months in a row, 563 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 2: but we are doing these these short runs to sort 564 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 2: of hit doing one run in the Midwest and one 565 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: run on the East coast and one run on the 566 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: West coast, and we'll keep doing. 567 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 3: That for a while so till we get everywhere. And 568 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 3: it is so so fun. 569 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 2: We've started rehearsals and stuff, and it is just such 570 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: a joy to be playing these songs in a physical way, 571 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 2: to really like have it in our hands again. 572 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 4: I wanted to ask you also about the Sandbox project. 573 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 4: Can you talk about that? 574 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: Sure? 575 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: Well, we've you know, we of course are known for 576 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 2: our videos, and with the release of the new album, 577 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 2: we have a new video for the song Love, which 578 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: was shot in a train station in Budapest and is 579 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 2: the most ambitious and exciting video I think we've ever made, 580 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 2: so curious to see how it lands in the world. 581 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 3: And the videos have this interesting life. 582 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 2: Which we never expected going into this, which is that 583 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: we make them as sort of selfishly as we make 584 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 2: any of our art projects, which is, it's the thing 585 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 2: that we want to see, it's the thing that we 586 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 2: want to make right, it's it's the thrill of chasing 587 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: an idea that's in our brains. But we put them 588 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: out into the world, and the weirdest thing started coming back, 589 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 2: which is that you know, for years it was the 590 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 2: person backstage would would be like, you know, one of 591 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 2: the other bands playing the show would be like, hey man, 592 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: I love some of them, you know, like I love 593 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 2: that thing you made with such and such, And it 594 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: started being more and more, hey man, I learned about 595 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 2: you from my physics teacher, or hey man, my kid's 596 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: first grade teacher was showing your video in class the 597 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 2: other day, and it kept on being teacher, teacher, teach, teacher, 598 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 2: And we realize that our videos have this other life, 599 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: teaching physics and math and art and resilience to young 600 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: kids because teachers struggle to take those incredible concepts and 601 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 2: put them into something as thrilling and playful as a 602 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 2: music video, right, And we realize that if there are 603 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 2: good humans out there taking this selfish stuff we have 604 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 2: made and making the world a better place. 605 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 3: With it, the least we can do is support them, 606 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 3: you know. 607 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 2: So we've started making behind the scenes videos and instructional 608 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 2: videos that go along with the music videos that teachers 609 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 2: can use in their classroom. So it's the website is 610 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 2: okay gosandbox dot org and it's all free to use, 611 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 2: and it's just classroom challenges and instructional videos and things 612 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 2: that are mapped to curricula in in ways that sort 613 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: of middle school teachers will understand. And we do that 614 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 2: with the help of a group called the Playful Learning 615 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 2: Lab at the University of Saint Thomas in Twin Cities, 616 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: and it has been a really, really gratifying project. It's 617 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 2: just incredible to watch these things take on a life 618 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: of their own and do something good in the world 619 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 2: that we didn't even plan them to do. 620 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 4: Aamien, such an honor to speak with your congrats son 621 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 4: and the adjacent possible and the tour and thanks for 622 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,479 Speaker 4: all the inspiration. Man really enjoyed it. 623 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 2: Thank you and really appreciate your time and your patience 624 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 2: with my long and winding. 625 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 4: Answered awesome answers. Thank you. 626 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 627 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 628 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 629 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 630 00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:21,720 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.