1 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: Hi everyone to Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. 2 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Lee Klaskows, Senior Freight Transportation and Logistics 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: a andalys at Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's in house research arm 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: of almost five hundred analysts and strategists. Before diving in 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: a little public service announcement. Your support is instrumental to 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: keep bringing great guests onto the podcast, and we need 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: your support. So if you enjoy the podcast, share it, 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: like it, and leave a comment. Also, if you have 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: any ideas for a future episodes or just want to 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: talk transports, please hit me up on the Bloomberg terminal, 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn or on Twitter at Logistics. 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: Lee. 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: Now onto our episode I'm very excited to have with 14 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: us today. Ed Elkins, Norfolk Southern's EVP and Chief Marketing 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: Officer AROLI, is held since twenty twenty one. Ed leads 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: the company's Intermotive, Automotive and Industrial Products business divisions. He 17 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: also manages the real estate and industrial development, short line marketing, 18 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: Field sales, and customer logistic business groups. Ed join Norfolk 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight as a road brakeman after serving 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: in the United States Marine Corps. He has held numerous 21 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: positions and operations and marketings during his career at the company. Currently, 22 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: he serves as Vice chair of the Georgia Chambers of 23 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Commerce and sits on the Board of Directors at the 24 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: National Association Manufacturers and as well on TTX Companies Board Ed. 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us today on the podcast. 26 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: Well, Lee, thank you for the opportunity. And I hate 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 2: hearing about myself, but thank you for that. 28 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: Well, it's quite a career and you know, I guess 29 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: you know it might not be too late to say this, 30 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: but thank you for your service serving in the Marine Corps. So, 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: Norfolk Southern, it's a pretty big company. Everyone may not 32 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: be aware of, you know, your network or the company itself. 33 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: So can you give us a brief description of Norfolk Southern. 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: Sure? Absolutely, And you know it's one of the easier 35 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: questions that you get. You we're what's considered a Class 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: one railroad here in North America and the United States. 37 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: We have on round and off somewhere around twenty thousand 38 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: miles of mainline track and you know, we cover twenty 39 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 2: two states in the East and the United States. Really 40 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: draw a line from Chicago, Kansas City, Saint Louis, Memphis, 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: New Orleans and east of there, and so we cover 42 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: around sixty percent of the country's consumer base and about 43 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: the same amount in terms of manufacturing base. It's a 44 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: it's a very dynamic region, much different than other parts 45 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: of the country where it's you know, we're in a 46 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: very dense, populated and congested part of the country. So 47 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: it's it's a it's an interesting and I would argue 48 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: a very compelling franchise that we have, which incorporates not 49 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: only of course, things that you think of when you 50 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: think of railroad is like coal and grain, and we 51 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: do we're well positioned in both of those markets. But 52 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: we're also the largest provider of service to integrated steel meals, 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: which is a compelling value prop for the automotive industry, 54 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: where we also have a very significant position. I believe 55 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 2: we service more origin points in the automotive network than 56 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: any other carrier, And of course our intramodial network, which 57 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: we spend a few decades building out now we think, 58 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: I think has a very compelling footprint versus our consumer base, 59 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: where we service all the major ports on the East 60 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: Coast and of course go to most every place where 61 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: there's a lot of consumers living, working, and buying stuff. 62 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: Interesting network from my perspective. 63 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: Right, And so you know what really differentiates Therfolk so 64 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: othern network from your other class one piers. You know, 65 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: you have one railroad CSX, which is your closest competitor 66 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: in the East. So how do you diferentiate your network 67 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: with your competitors? 68 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think, first of all, intermodal is 69 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,559 Speaker 2: and should continue to be a very compelling value proposition 70 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: for not only the US consumer base, but for those 71 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: global companies that are looking to service our consumers here 72 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: in North America. And when I think of our intermodal network, 73 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: you know, it's actually the second largest in North America, 74 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: and it's the largest publicly traded intermotial franchise in the world. 75 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: And we service more ports, more consumers than really anybody 76 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: except for a Western railroad that you won't name names. 77 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: But we have a great network. The way that I 78 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: try to explain it to my kids when they're asking 79 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 2: me about it is there's around one hundred million consumers 80 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: that wake up every morning within fifty miles of a 81 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: Norfolk Southern intermodal terminal, And that just tell you something 82 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: about market reach and scale when it comes to our investments. 83 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: And for those that don't know that are listening, intermodal 84 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: there's really two different kinds. 85 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 3: There's international domestic. Domestic. 86 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: It starts in a truck, goes on a rail road 87 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: and gets final delivered by a truck. International as more 88 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: or less as originated from one of the ocean ports. 89 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: So that's kind of the biggest difference there. One one 90 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: of the interesting things about intermodal is that it tends 91 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: to be cheaper and greener, Isn't that right? What's what 92 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: do you guys tell your customers when they're thinking about 93 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: using intermodal versus truck truck only product? 94 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: What is the. 95 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: Value proposition that you provide? 96 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the value prop on intermod And by the way, Lee, 97 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 2: I appreciate you pulling me out of the lingo and 98 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: back up to a higher level for your listeners. Yeah, 99 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: intermodal is really it's it's what I think of as 100 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: the most easily substitutable product that we can offer to 101 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: a to a all highways to and that is an 102 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: intermotive container, which is typically a fifty three foot long 103 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: container for domestic or a twenty or forty foot or 104 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: for the for the ocean side, and the value prop 105 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: I think is pretty compelling. If you want to take 106 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: trucks off the highway, decongest our major interstates, if you 107 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: want to save hundreds of lives a year by taking 108 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: those trucks off the highway and stop them from mingling 109 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: with you know, ourselves on the on the highways. And 110 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: if you want to save about seventy percent of your 111 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: carbon emissions for the for the transport of that freight 112 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: and save money versus the rate that you will pay 113 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: for a highway truck intermodal is a great solution. And 114 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 2: you know, we've demonstrated in the East, and when I 115 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: say in the East, I mean really on the eastern 116 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: side of the US. We've demonstrated that you don't need 117 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: a two thousand mile length of haul to make those 118 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: economics work. You know, most of our links of haul 119 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: for for our product are less than eight hundred miles 120 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: and in some cases our denser lanes are less than 121 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: four hundred miles. And it's it's really a tribute to 122 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: number one, the innovation and the investment that we and 123 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: our coort partners have made on the East coast, but 124 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: also the discipline and rigor that we bring to the network, 125 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: because ultimately, all those attributes that I talk to you 126 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 2: about as part of the value proposition don't mean anything 127 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: unless it's a service that you can trust every single day, 128 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 2: delivered by folks that you know that you can trust 129 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: as well. And so that's that's the core of our 130 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 2: value prop is it's a service you can count on 131 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: every single day and it's going to be a safe, reliable, 132 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: resilient service. Once you clear that hurdle, then I can 133 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,559 Speaker 2: talk to you about all the other attributes and value 134 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: that comes from it, which are very compelling. But we've 135 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: we spend a lot of time and energy making sure 136 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: our operation both at the terminal level and between terminals, 137 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: what we call line of road is not only compelling, 138 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: but resilient, reliable, and very predictable. 139 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so as you know, the trucking market gets 140 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: a little little tighter, and obviously intermodial does better when 141 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: fuels more expensive. How easily able are you guys to 142 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: flex to like bring on more demand onto the network 143 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: when it comes, because I know right now, you know 144 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: intermodals is dealing with a loose trucking market and relatively 145 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: low prices for diesel, for. 146 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: Sure, And you know, I have to remind folks all 147 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: the time that we're in the i think the twenty 148 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 2: sixth month of what's essentially a freight recession in North America. Really, 149 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: this whole post pandemic period has been marked by the 150 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 2: supply chain bullwhip, which really drove up demand for goods, 151 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: which then turned into a crisis of capacity on the 152 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: transport side and the logistics side. And now we're on 153 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: the back end of that for the last twenty four months, 154 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: where there's really been an oversupply of highway trucks versus 155 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: the amount of freight that wants to move, and of 156 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: course we're a part of that market. So it's been 157 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: a very challenging environment from a rate perspective as well 158 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: as from a capacity or opportunity perspective. But you know, 159 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: there are a few compelling things that I think are 160 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: starting to lean our way. Number One, we've consistently grown 161 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: our intermodal volumes since really the end of the first 162 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: quarter of this year, which tells me that we're more 163 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 2: and more able to take share back from the highway. 164 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 2: And I don't say take it back from truckers because 165 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 2: for your listeners. Truckers are our customers in many cases, 166 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: So when I talk about taking share back, I'm really 167 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: taking share back from the highway system. That's where I 168 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: want to convert share from. So I think we've done 169 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: a good job this year of putting a value prop 170 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: out there which includes a very predictable service and what 171 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: I would call market competitive rates which again make our 172 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: product compelling. And as we move into twenty twenty five, 173 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: I've been wrong about this all year, but at some 174 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: point I'll be right. Rates are going to inflect upward 175 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: as capacity continues to exit the marketplace, and I think 176 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: that's where intermodal writ large. But intermodal from Norfolk Southern 177 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 2: is certainly going to shine because what you will see 178 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: is that we're able to absorb a substantial amount of 179 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: new volume with very very low incremental inputs to that. 180 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 2: In other words, think of the train calling one hundred 181 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: and twenty containers instead of one hundred's. That's really not 182 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: a hard lift. You don't need more locomotives to do that, 183 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: you don't need another crew to do that. There's a 184 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 2: fair amount of substantial latent capacity in the network that 185 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: we can use to absorb that additional freight at what 186 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: I would call compelling incrementals. 187 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: Right, you know, staying staying on an intermodal, but like 188 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: starting on the ports. 189 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 2: Uh. 190 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: You know, obviously you guys had to deal with the 191 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: port strikes on the East Coast and Gulf. 192 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 3: I guess last month that was uh. 193 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: And you know an agreement hasn't been reached that we 194 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: won't know until you know, probably January when right when 195 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: negotiations will be done. How did that impact your business? 196 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: Do you think that you guys are back to where 197 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: you were prior to the labor issues. 198 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: It's sort of a really complex question that you asked, 199 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 2: but let me let me let me try to answer it. 200 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: On the face of it, people say, well, the port 201 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 2: track was only three days long, How bad could that be? Right? Right? 202 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 2: But the truth of the matter is, for weeks and 203 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: perhaps for months ahead of that work stoppage, there were 204 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: freight managers in Shenzen, Shanghai, Brussels, et cetera, around the 205 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: world making decisions on how they were going to route 206 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 2: their freight for the fall season. And what we've seen 207 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 2: as a fairly substantial what I would call preemptive swing 208 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: of freight to the West coast versus the East coast 209 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 2: in anticipation of some possible work stoppage. Then you had 210 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: the three day work stoppage itself, which was not necessarily 211 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 2: tremendously impactful, but did start to throw what I would 212 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 2: call equipment balances out of line. In other words, you 213 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: freeze the supply chain for seventy two hours, you start 214 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: to distort the outcomes. And so we're kind of living 215 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 2: through those two things where people have made preemptive decisions 216 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: about how they route freight and this distortion of equipment 217 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: flows which occurred at the same time. And you know, 218 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: the point that you really highlighted is it may not 219 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: be over yet. Because if I'm sitting in sin's En 220 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 2: or Shanging, I'm making those decisions, I may not want 221 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: to swing freight back to its most efficient routing, which 222 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 2: might be an East coast routing, until I'm sure that 223 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 2: there is clarity around how this gets resolved in January. 224 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: And so we're dealing with big volumes, that's for sure. 225 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 2: It's coming from a variety of different what I would 226 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 2: call origin ports that are not necessarily the ones that 227 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: we started out anticipating. But I think the rail network 228 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 2: writ large is doing a good job of handling it, 229 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: and we've been able to bounce back really quickly from 230 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: the disruptions that we experienced. 231 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: Right, And you mentioned like, you know, the supply Chaine 232 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: really have not been the same since the pandemic. 233 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 3: So given that, looking before the pandemic. 234 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: When was typically the peak season from a consumer side, 235 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: from the intermodal side of your business, when does it 236 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: usually start? 237 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 3: When does it usually end? 238 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 2: You know, pre pandemic, I always used to look at 239 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 2: week thirty six, thirty seven, thirty eight, something like that, 240 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 2: which would be late September early October as sort of 241 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: the apex of you know, consumer consumer products moving into 242 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 2: the US in anticipation of the Christmas spending season. Right. Okay, 243 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 2: that has changed somewhat over time as more and more 244 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: freight got routed to the East Coast, and so you 245 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: would see probably a later surge and maybe shorter and 246 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 2: sharper in some cases, but maybe more drawn out in others. 247 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: This year, we're actually are doing very well with intermodal volumes, 248 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 2: both domestically and internationally, and we uh, I think I'm 249 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 2: not sure that we've seen our peak week yet in 250 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: terms of in terms of freight that wants to move 251 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 2: intermodally in the US. So it's probably a later peak 252 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: season in general this year, although perhaps more drawn out 253 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: and muted and less sharp. 254 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: Right, So it's good. It's good to hear that there 255 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: is a peak. Yeah, you know, you mentioned Cole a. 256 00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 3: Little while ago. 257 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: Obviously coal has been somewhat of a secular decline from 258 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: a thermal domestic coal of consumption, but Norfolk, Southern and 259 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: some of your peers have really benefited from the export market. 260 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about the export market 261 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: and maybe talk about how, you know, you price that business, 262 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: because people might not be really familiar about, you know, 263 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: the pricing mechanisms for the coal business, which is very 264 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: different than a lot of your other businesses. 265 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, coal is you know, sort of a double 266 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: edged sword with one age lot sharper than the other 267 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: on the on the utility side, or the thermal side, 268 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 2: that is coal that is intended for electricity generation. Here 269 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: in the US. There has been a long, long decline 270 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: which has been been nothing but sustained. We expect that 271 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 2: to continue. Although I will tell you that the recent 272 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 2: state of articles that you've probably have seen out there 273 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: regarding the demands for power generation in the US because 274 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: of AI as well as some other trends, are probably 275 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: making people not rethink the trajectory of coal, but perhaps 276 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: is it is a is a short term alternative that 277 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: may may put a little bit more life into that. 278 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 2: We continue to very aggressively service those utilities that still 279 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: require coal, and of course that's still an important part 280 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: of our business. But the export side, particularly export metallurgical coal, 281 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: is quite strong, and what we have seen over the 282 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: past three years has really been a sort of a 283 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: roller coaster of seaborn coal pricing. And to your point, 284 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 2: the way that most of those markets work is some 285 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: derivative of what the seaborn price is in the case 286 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: not only demand but also the opportunity to price into 287 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 2: those supply chains. So we've seen we've seen a couple 288 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 2: of all time highs in those markets, or at least 289 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: recent historical all time highs in those markets for seaborn 290 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: UH metallurgical coal UH that has come off some and 291 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 2: and like every other commodity on Planet Earth, a lot 292 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: of it's dictated by demand emanating from China as well 293 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 2: as other places. UH. In the in the Asian theater, 294 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 2: the uh. The other other side of this is the 295 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: export thermal, which is continuing to see strong demand not 296 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 2: only in Europe but particularly in UH India and the subcontinent. 297 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 2: So uh, we are we're pretty well positioned both in 298 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: terms of our customer base, which we're lucky to be 299 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 2: able to service, but also some uh some incremental expansion 300 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 2: in US production capacity which has offered us new opportunities 301 00:17:54,320 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 2: to export through Baltimore and Lambert's point, which is Norfolk Virginia, gotcha. 302 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: And then you know, with regards to kind of growth, 303 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily near term growth, but long term growth. You know, 304 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: new business is obviously an area where you guys can 305 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: grow a lot, you know, outside of intermodal and coal. 306 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: Where are the new business opportunities for Norfolk Southern over 307 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: the long term. 308 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 2: I think there's a few areas. One way that we've 309 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: looked at it, and I think this is a pretty 310 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 2: compelling way to sort of parse the market out. There 311 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 2: are essentially three tranches, let's call it, of freight typologies. 312 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 2: The first one being rail centric, and that's like a 313 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 2: coal or a grain market, where it's a heavy, dense 314 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 2: ball commodity that moves in fairly large quantities over a 315 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: long geographic distance, and there is a compelling value proposition 316 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: for railroads in that space. Right now, I'm leaving side 317 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: secular declines and coal, et cetera. But just the nature 318 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: of the commodity lends itself to rail transportation. At the 319 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 2: other at the other end of the spectrum our truck 320 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: centric products, and that would be those that move in 321 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 2: very small lots, short distances and require a high degree 322 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: of transit velocity. Think of I guess, groceries or fresh 323 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 2: cut flowers, maybe something like that. And those are markets 324 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: where it's very difficult for rail to offer a value 325 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 2: proposition that's compelling. But there's this very wide ocean of 326 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 2: freight in the middle. I would call it which we 327 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 2: call flexible freight, and that is freight that can move 328 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 2: by truck or could move by rail, depending on the 329 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: value proposition that's presented for it. And that is a 330 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 2: wide range of commodities from consumer package goods. It could 331 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 2: be food and beverage. It could be coiled steel which 332 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: moves by truck or by rail. It can be a 333 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: variety of other agricultural products as well as many things 334 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: that might move in a truck or a box car, 335 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: and so that very broad range of commodities that could 336 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: move either route, depending on how much value it enjoys 337 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 2: from either is where we're really directing a lot of 338 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: our opportunity and a lot of our efforts. And when 339 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 2: I think of what it takes to participate into what 340 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 2: I call earn back share in those markets, it really 341 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: comes down to can you provide that safe, reliable, resilient 342 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 2: product over a fairly long period of time that people 343 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 2: can count on every single day. And if they can, 344 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 2: then what they can do is build their supply chains 345 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 2: around that service and save themselves a lot of money, 346 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,959 Speaker 2: deliver a lot of value for their customers, and reduce 347 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 2: a lot of carbon emissions along the way. And that 348 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 2: is a long term focus for Norfolk Southern, that is, 349 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 2: how do we enter those markets and create more value 350 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 2: and earn more share at the same time we're still 351 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: servicing those rail centric commodities that we do so well right. 352 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the kind of long term 353 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: secular growth trends for transportation in general is kind of 354 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: cross border trade with you know, near shoring. 355 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 3: Does no folks othern get to play. 356 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: In that we do? And we think because of where 357 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: we sit in the value chain that is very close 358 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 2: to a majority of the US consumer base. We will 359 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,239 Speaker 2: have more and more opportunity there. And that's that's in 360 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: partnership with our Western roads who actually go into Mexico directly, 361 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 2: such as a CPKC, Union Pacific, as well as other 362 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 2: partners along the way. So yes, I think it's a 363 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: it's an undiscovered country in terms of freight that could 364 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: move by rail, but likely moved by truck today. We've 365 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 2: been working on it. We the railroads in general, have 366 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: been working on it for a while. But we are 367 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: delivering a couple of new services that I think are 368 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: going to be even more compelling for those markets that 369 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 2: are just rolling out now. 370 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, can you talk a little 371 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 3: bit about those services. 372 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 2: Sure, one is in conjunction with CPKC. That's Canadian Pacific 373 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 2: Kansas City. We're offering a service today that moves out 374 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: of key Mexico origin points into the Midwest. That would 375 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 2: be Toledo, Ohio as a hub for US across Kansas 376 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 2: City as the junction point. And you tell me if 377 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 2: I'm getting too far in the weeds for your for 378 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: your nod at all, that. 379 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: We have a broad array of listeners. We have very 380 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: generalists and that we have some very very transport specific 381 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: folks listening. So okay, the as wonky as you want 382 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: very good. 383 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 2: So so that we think that is a that's a 384 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: real opportunity for us to penetrate markets that have traditionally 385 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 2: moved most likely by truck or some alternative means to 386 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: get into those Midwest markets. We'll see we're in the 387 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 2: very early stages of that service. We're out selling it 388 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: today on the street with our partners, and we look 389 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 2: forward to seeing more of that, and we continue to 390 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 2: look at how else we can service the Mexico market. 391 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: When I think of reshoring, near shoring or on shoring, 392 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 2: you know, when I think of Mexico, I think of 393 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 2: most likely basic manufacturing which returns to Mexico, with more 394 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 2: advanced manufacturing or value add manufacturing probably migrating to the US. 395 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 2: But I think Mexico over time will have more and 396 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: more opportunity on the advanced side as well. So we 397 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: think there's a lot of opportunity there, and we continue 398 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 2: to study how we can best add value in that 399 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: supply chain. 400 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: And when you're planning for growth, you know, near term 401 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: long term, do you have like a kind of a goal. 402 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: Is it a GDP plus kind of growth that you're 403 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: looking to accomplish. 404 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm speaking in very general terms for 405 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 2: for me, for our merchandise businesses, that is, the car 406 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 2: load businesses, think of box cars, covered hoppers, et cetera, 407 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: et cetera. You know, the Industrial production Index for manufacturing. 408 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 2: I should be able to beat that every single year 409 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 2: if I'm taking share back from the road. That's that's 410 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: a very very generalized benchmark. And then on the intermodal side, 411 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 2: you know, honestly, it's it's some multiple of of GDP 412 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: with consumer goods spending. 413 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So you know, in order to win all 414 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: this business, obviously, service safety is a key for rail roads. 415 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: The more competitive you are, it allows you to be 416 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: more competitive with with truck Can you talk about you know, uh, 417 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: you know, the evolution what's been going on in Norfolk 418 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: othern in terms of your operations and and where you 419 00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: are and where you hope to. 420 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 2: Be sure, it certainly has been an evolution, a very 421 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 2: very dramatic one in some cases and hopefully less so 422 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: than others. You know, we have a new COO John Orr, 423 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 2: who came to us from CN and John and I 424 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 2: share a couple of a couple of similar attributes. We 425 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: both started on the ground as brakeman and as locomotive 426 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: engineers in the early parts of our career, and we've 427 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: both been doing this for more than three decades, so 428 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: I guess that makes us both very old. And we 429 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: have the same amount of hair, which is not very much. 430 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: But you know, John brings a lot of valuable knowledge 431 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 2: and experience. Prior to coming here, of course, he spearheaded 432 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: the turnaround of Canadian Pacific Kansas City's Mexico operation. He 433 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: implemented a high efficiency operating model there and shaped and 434 00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 2: guided the execution of cacs's scheduled railroading integration. And John 435 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,959 Speaker 2: talks about PSR two point zero as what he's bringing 436 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: to the railroads. There's a PSR one point oh, for sure. 437 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 2: There are may be other versions out there, but the 438 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 2: version that that John and I have been have been 439 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 2: working to implement here and and he's been a great 440 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 2: leader for us, is one that is focused not only 441 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: on efficiency and driving costs out, but really injecting more 442 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 2: operational capacity through velocity enhancement to make us agile, nimble, 443 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: and able to go after those incremental opportunities that arise. 444 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: You get a shot at him, and then they move 445 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: on to the next mode if we can't handle it. 446 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 2: And I will tell you that over the past three 447 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: four years, we've been very challenged both in terms of 448 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: our capacity and our agility. And just as an example, 449 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: John sponsored and I join him for a three day 450 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 2: week meeting where our key leaders all get together. He 451 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 2: calls it the locker room. Where we get in the 452 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 2: locker room and talk about what happened yesterday in the 453 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 2: game and what's going to happen tomorrow to make it better. 454 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: And those are challenging conversations. They are sometimes uncomfortable for everyone, 455 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 2: for everyone conversations, but they're very very productive. And I've 456 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 2: been I've been deeply impressed by the level of execution 457 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 2: excellence that he has brought to the table. But also, 458 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 2: you know, I've been working really hard to help him 459 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 2: free our minds, so to speak, from the from the 460 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 2: past and what was possible in the past. And we're 461 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 2: demonstrating every day that we're actually able to do more 462 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 2: than we ever thought we could. You know, when I 463 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 2: look at our you look at our third quarter results, 464 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: we came in top tier. I think we were second 465 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 2: both in volume production and in revenue, which is a 466 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: key benchmark for me. Do I stack up versus the 467 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: others in terms of growth? And I will tell you 468 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 2: that my vision and my my mission for all of 469 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 2: my folks is that we're going to be top tier 470 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: every single quarter. And that wouldn't be possible if John 471 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 2: hadn't brought to the table the operational foundation that he's 472 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 2: really delivered here. I'm very impressed with it, I guess 473 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 2: another way to put it. 474 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And just for the listeners out there, a precision 475 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: scheduling railroading really is a sixth sigma for the railroads. 476 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 3: It's about sweating assets, taking out costs. 477 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: And why Canadian National is usually mentioned when you're talking 478 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 1: about PSR. The predecessor of Canadian National was Illinois Central 479 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,239 Speaker 1: and that's kind of where the PSR really started. And 480 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the senior leaders that came out of 481 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: CN from an operations standpoint, have a lot of experience 482 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: in implementing it and to you to your point, at 483 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: sometimes it was implemented well at railroads and sometimes it 484 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: was implemented poorly. I think that Norfolk Southern and Union 485 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: Pacific are taking more of a disciplined and kind of 486 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: managed approach to to pushing it out across its network 487 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: where it's not so disruptive to customers and operations and 488 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: everything like that. And it really seems like, you know, 489 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: you have the workers buy in for that. 490 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 3: You know, you mentioned you have a new COO. You 491 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 3: obviously have a new CEO. 492 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of I mean, it would be 493 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: fair to say there's been some drama in Norfolk Southern 494 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, whether it's from the 495 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, that devastating derailment that you guys had last 496 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: year and an activist battle and now a new CEO. 497 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: Can you talk about Mark George, you know, he was 498 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: the CFO now CEO kind of is there any change 499 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: to the organization anything you might want to provide a 500 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: color on that would be great. 501 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: Well, I think that the first question I always get 502 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 2: from each of our customers whenever I've talked to him 503 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: the past month, month and a half since all this 504 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 2: has happened, is hey, is your strategy changing and if so, how? 505 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 2: And the answer has been very consistent, not only for me, 506 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 2: but from all of our folks, which includes Mark George. 507 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 2: Our strategy is fundamentally the same, and we think it's 508 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: the right strategy, and it's to answer the question of 509 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 2: how do railroads begin to grow again? Writ large And 510 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 2: when I say how do we grow again, it's how 511 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 2: do we provide value for our customers. And that is 512 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 2: a combination of providing a very high quality, predictable service 513 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: which has safety as its foundations, being as productive as 514 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 2: we possibly can be as we deliver that service. And 515 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 2: we believe that that combination delivers growth for Norfolk Southern 516 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,239 Speaker 2: and our shareholders, but it also delivers growth for our 517 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: customers because again going back to what I said a 518 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 2: while back there, if we can produce a service that 519 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 2: you can count on every day, delivered by people that 520 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 2: you can trust, then you can build a supply chain 521 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: around that exceptional value that we're able to offer, and 522 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 2: that means that your business is going to be much 523 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: better position to compete in the global marketplace than others 524 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 2: that don't. And so our strategy is is the same. 525 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 2: And you know, I get the question of you know, 526 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 2: whose strategy is it, It's pretty simple. It's our strategy. 527 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 2: It was it was derived from a number of leaders 528 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: at Norfolk Southern, including me and including Mark George, set 529 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 2: around the table and try to answer that question of 530 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 2: how do we make railroads grow again? And and that's 531 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 2: the answer that we came up with. We think it's 532 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: the right one, and I would argue that we're closer 533 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 2: than ever to be able to implement that vision. 534 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: Right And a lot of that planning is, you know, 535 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: like you mentioned, not only growing but operating a much 536 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: more efficient network. You guys have targeted four hundred to 537 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: four h and fifty basis points and margin improve in 538 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: the second half. You guys kind of did really well 539 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: in the third quarter at making that happen. 540 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 3: Can you talk about the longer term. 541 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: You know, twenty twenty, twenty twenty five and beyond, you know, 542 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: what are you guys expecting with margins? 543 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 2: I'll do my best without veering into anything that I 544 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 2: probably shouldn't you because we're still working on our twenty 545 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 2: twenty five plan, but we're we're more confident than ever 546 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: that we're going to be able to deliver the goals 547 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 2: that we laid out to investors. And that's you know, 548 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: a glide path to a sub sixty o R or 549 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 2: sixty ho R over the next thirty six months or so. 550 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: But basically operating ratio. You know how efficient we are 551 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 2: at converting operating revenue and operating profit. And we're doing 552 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 2: a much better job than we were previously. And I 553 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 2: think we have line of sight on not only continued 554 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 2: productivity and provements and continued productivity improvements that would not 555 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 2: have been possible two years ago. It just wasn't even 556 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 2: on the table for us. But now we have a 557 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 2: line of sight on them. And then secondly, like I said, 558 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: with the growth that we're seeing, we're seeing incremental top 559 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 2: line revenue come in exactly where we thought it would 560 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 2: and that's given us a lot of confidence that we're 561 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 2: actually creating value and that value is going to continue 562 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: into twenty twenty five. You know, we'll get past the election. 563 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 2: I don't know what happens with the soft landing, but 564 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: it kind of looks okay right now. And if all 565 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: those things hold together, then again, I expect those highway 566 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 2: prices to inflect upward in the US consumer to power 567 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: through this thing, and we're going to be there to 568 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 2: take advantage of it for us and for our customers. 569 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: Right right, and just for clarification, the operating ratio, like 570 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: you mentioned, it's a measurement of profitability. It's pretty much 571 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: the inverse of an operating income margin, So lower the number, 572 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: the better, And that's kind of how Rero has been 573 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: measuring their profitability for quite some time. So obviously you 574 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: had the activists activity. You guys decided to do a 575 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: lot of self help things. The activists they want a 576 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: couple of board seats. Has there been like any fundamental 577 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: changes since the since the activist activity told today about 578 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: the culture of Norfolk Southern, or you just think you're 579 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: just doing things a little differently than maybe you weren't before. 580 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a sort of a long answer, 581 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 2: but I'll try to try to keep it short. Number one, 582 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 2: Mark George as our new CEO, has really brought a 583 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 2: manufacturing mindset to the job. I think you probably know 584 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 2: he was CFO not only at Norfolk Southern, but at 585 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 2: a couple of very large manufacturing companies before he came 586 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 2: to us, so he's very familiar with manufacturing processes, operational 587 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 2: in quality, rigor and and that's certainly what he's done 588 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 2: the manning of all of us when it comes to 589 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 2: producing and manufacturing the only thing that people buy from us, 590 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 2: which is service. And so that's that's one big piece 591 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 2: of it. The second is, you know, yes, we have 592 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 2: a reconstituted board with a fair number of what I 593 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 2: would call newer board members less than two years service 594 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 2: with us. But what I've seen is our board has 595 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 2: come together around the strategy and around the execution of it, 596 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 2: and we're stronger today than we were six months ago 597 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 2: when it comes to alignment on the strategy and being 598 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 2: very inquisitive and aggressive and how we pursue the strategy. 599 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 2: So I feel good on both accounts there. 600 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: And how would you characterize the I guess you know, 601 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,479 Speaker 1: change is never easy, whether you're a huge organization from 602 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: top to the person in the front line. 603 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 3: How has. 604 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: You know, how has the world force kind of accepted 605 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: or embrace these changes that have been made at the organization? 606 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 2: Well, you know, you think about what John Orra has 607 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 2: done since he got here, and that is, you know, 608 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 2: he has reached out to our to our labor leaders 609 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,439 Speaker 2: and to folks on the ground. And like I said, 610 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 2: both he and I came from from that world originally. 611 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 2: Everyone here at Norfolk Southern I think is aligned around 612 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 2: the goal of producing that service that you can count on, 613 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 2: delivered by people that you can trust. And if you 614 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 2: hopefully if you walk through one of our rail yards 615 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 2: someday someone will say that that's what we're all here for. 616 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 2: But that also includes you know, we've we've been very 617 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 2: successful this year with reaching tentative agreement with several of 618 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: our unions, and we have a number of unions that 619 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: we do business with. I believe it's ten out of 620 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 2: thirteen so far that we've reached tentative deals with. And 621 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 2: I think that in and of itself is a vote 622 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 2: of confidence on the part of our unionized workforce that 623 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 2: we're aligned around producing a better outcome for everyone. And 624 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 2: I can tell you, speaking as someone who was who 625 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,959 Speaker 2: was on that side of the table a long time ago, 626 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 2: knowing that you're working for a company that wants to grow, 627 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 2: a company that wants to do things the right way, 628 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 2: goes a long way toward allowing you to build that 629 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 2: trust that you need. 630 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: Gotcha and just changing gears a little bit, Are there 631 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: anything on the regulatory front that you're looking at? 632 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 2: You know, we're always in the constant conversation with our regulators, 633 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 2: and that that really means working together to figure out 634 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 2: what's best for the industry. Probably the most significant regulatory 635 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 2: risk is a policy that puts US at a disadvantage 636 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 2: compared to other modes of transportation. And when I say US, 637 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 2: I really mean railroads in general. You know, policy, if 638 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 2: not written correctly, could lead to an unintended shift of freight. 639 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 2: And when I think of an unintended shift or freight, 640 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 2: that's going to be to a mode that's probably less safe, 641 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,240 Speaker 2: more expensive, and more carbon intensive than railroading. And that's 642 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 2: that's what we're not here for. You know, I think 643 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 2: of things like the uh the reciprocal switching rule, which 644 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 2: is is really I think intended to ensure that railroads 645 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 2: maintain a consistent level of service for a customer as well. 646 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 2: We're fully aligned with that, and that's our really our 647 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 2: focus on delivering high quality service across business cycles. So 648 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 2: you know, we we we feel good about that. I 649 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,359 Speaker 2: think you know that I was just in front of 650 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 2: the Surface Transportation Board testifying on how we're going to 651 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: deliver growth for the industry, and and uh you know, 652 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 2: that's kind of my favorite kind of regulatory medium where 653 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 2: we talk about how we're uh so so I feel 654 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 2: pretty good about that too, all right. 655 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 3: So I'm just curious. 656 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: You know, you came from, you know, the Marine Corps 657 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: and you went into railroading. 658 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 3: How did how did you make that connection? 659 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: Was that something that you kind of fell into or 660 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: something that you knew you wanted to do? 661 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 2: Oh no, it's definitely something I fell into. I had. 662 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 2: I had just gotten out of the service and was 663 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 2: back home at my mom and Dad's getting ready to 664 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 2: start college. And my dad and one night with a 665 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 2: newspaper and said, Hey, they're hiring Braakman tomorrow. And I 666 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 2: was like, well, you know, what does that have to 667 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 2: do with me? And he's like, well, you need a job. 668 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 2: So he kind of insisted that I go up there 669 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 2: and at least give it a shot, which I did, 670 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 2: and out of around four hundred people that showed up 671 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 2: for I think it was ten jobs, I was one 672 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 2: of those. And uh and it was a it was 673 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 2: a great, great experience to start out at that level 674 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 2: on the railroad, which is really at the at the 675 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 2: ground level coming out of the service. You know, it 676 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 2: was probably a very comfortable fit at that point. It's 677 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 2: it's a it's a very you know, can be a 678 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 2: very h non forgiving environment out there working for the railroad. 679 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,800 Speaker 2: It's an inherently risky business, and the adherence to safety 680 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 2: and discipline really fit where I'd come from. So yeah, 681 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 2: I always looked on it as a kind of a 682 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,280 Speaker 2: match made in heaven. 683 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 3: From that perspective, that's great. 684 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm just curious, you know, as a 685 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: senior manager of you know, a large transportation company, in 686 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: a large company in general, you know, are there any 687 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: books about the industry or management that really, you know, 688 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: hit close to home, that that you kind of really 689 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: enjoyed and you think maybe some of our listeners might 690 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: like to take a read at Well, you. 691 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 2: Know, I think I think people today take railroads for granted, 692 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 2: and and that's really in two different ways. One people 693 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 2: view them as utilities perhaps that you know, don't have, 694 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,799 Speaker 2: don't have a lot of excitement or volatility in them 695 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 2: or any opportunity. And on the other hand, it's people 696 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 2: that go, wow, I didn't even know who we used 697 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 2: railroads anymore, you know. So it's, uh, it's it's sort 698 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 2: of two sides of the same coin. So there's a 699 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: there's a couple of a couple of books that I 700 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 2: think really helped give you perspective on the industry and 701 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 2: what's possible, and and the and the first one is 702 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 2: nothing like it in the world, which I think was 703 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 2: Steven Ambrose, but I may get that wrong, and knowing 704 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: that off the top of my head, which is about 705 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 2: the origination of the railroads in North America out west. 706 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 2: And then the second one is the Reck of the 707 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 2: penn Central, which is really a fairly detailed examination of 708 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,399 Speaker 2: what happened when the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York 709 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 2: Central were merged at the at the end of the 710 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 2: sixties and really right up until you know, the the 711 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,439 Speaker 2: rail industry was deregulated. So either one of those are 712 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 2: are really interesting from different perspectives. 713 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 3: Right, and outside of railroading, What do you like to 714 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 3: do for fun? 715 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 2: You know, I like to golf. If I'm not I'm 716 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 2: usually on the golf course. 717 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 3: All right, you have a single digital handicap? 718 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 2: Nope? 719 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: Ten do something okay in my twenties, but you know, 720 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: you never can ever break that. Well ed, I really 721 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: want to thank you for your time and insights. 722 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 3: I really appreciate it. This was a great conversation. 723 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 2: I really appreciate the opportunity and I enjoyed talking with 724 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 2: you Leek. 725 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: And I want to thank you for tuning in. If 726 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: you liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. 727 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast. 728 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 1: Check back to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, 729 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you 730 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: have any ideas for a future episode or just want 731 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: to talk to transports, please hit me up on the 732 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal, on LinkedIn or on Twitter at logistics Late. 733 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 3: Thanks a lot, everyone, and take care.