WEBVTT - Judit Polgar: Chess Grandmaster

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<v Speaker 1>It was very clear by age of fifteen sixteen, when

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<v Speaker 1>I was already a grand master, that I became the

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<v Speaker 1>only woman player in those tournaments where let's say there

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<v Speaker 1>were thirteen men adults and I was the only girl

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<v Speaker 1>or woman. Later on, but it meant that I had

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<v Speaker 1>to have the perseverance for that, to stand up always

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<v Speaker 1>when something went wrong or they beat me, to have

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<v Speaker 1>that the fighting spirit, to have the dedication, to have

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<v Speaker 1>that passion for the game. That was Judith Paulgar. She's

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<v Speaker 1>been called the greatest woman chess player of all time,

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<v Speaker 1>but her achievements go beyond gender lines. At age fifteen,

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<v Speaker 1>she became the youngest person ever to achieve grand master status,

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<v Speaker 1>younger than Bobby Fisher was when he earned that title,

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<v Speaker 1>and she's defeated many of the world's most renowned men players,

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<v Speaker 1>including Gary Kasparov and Boris Spassky. I'm a land Ververe

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<v Speaker 1>and this is Seneca's one d Women to Hear. We

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<v Speaker 1>are bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring

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<v Speaker 1>and history making women you need to hear. Judith Polgar

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<v Speaker 1>has been excelling at chess for more than four decades,

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<v Speaker 1>since she was a five year old in Hungary. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>she coaches chess and inspires the next generation of players

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<v Speaker 1>through the Judith Polgar Chess Foundation, and on October eight

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<v Speaker 1>she will once again host the annual Judith Polgar Global

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<v Speaker 1>Chess Festival. This year's theme is Women in Chess, Women

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<v Speaker 1>in Science. Listen and learn why Judith Polgar is one

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<v Speaker 1>of Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear. I'm here today

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<v Speaker 1>with Judith Polgar, who is considered to be the best

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<v Speaker 1>woman chess player of all time. Judy, it is a

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<v Speaker 1>pleasure to have you with us. Thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 1>Nice to be here. Really, you became a grand master

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<v Speaker 1>at age fifteen. You were ranked eighth in the world

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<v Speaker 1>male or female. You've beaten many of the men who

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<v Speaker 1>were world champions. What is that special thing that makes

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<v Speaker 1>you different that makes you a top chess player. I

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<v Speaker 1>believe that mainly the way I was raised and my

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<v Speaker 1>parents gave and supported me in many different ways and

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<v Speaker 1>and also inspired me to have a mindset that I

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<v Speaker 1>know that I can do it, and they always said

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<v Speaker 1>that I can do it. They try to give the

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<v Speaker 1>most possible opportunities to me, having the good trainers, giving

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to play in the right tournament and also support

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<v Speaker 1>me emotionally and in every way, so I'm able to

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<v Speaker 1>improve from day to days. So that's how I think

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<v Speaker 1>I could become really good in chess. Well, you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>your parents, and I know that you began playing in

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<v Speaker 1>tournaments when you were just six years old. Tell us

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<v Speaker 1>how you got introduced to chess. Was it your parents

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<v Speaker 1>and what was your training? Like? Why were you attracted

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<v Speaker 1>to chess? Actually, for me, I had a paved road

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<v Speaker 1>ahead of me because I have two older sisters. Susan

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<v Speaker 1>who is the oldest, She's seven year older than me,

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<v Speaker 1>so when I started to play chess when I was five,

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<v Speaker 1>she had already very serious results even internationally. So Sophia,

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<v Speaker 1>the middle one, she also played chess already, and when

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<v Speaker 1>I was a baby, already my parents knew that my

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<v Speaker 1>path is to become a chess champion, and they did

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<v Speaker 1>everything in order to to make me one. And so

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<v Speaker 1>it was very natural for me that I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>follow my sisters and I started to play chess. Then

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<v Speaker 1>I started to have my first tournament, and very fast

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<v Speaker 1>they discovered that I'm talented and I'm growing very fast

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<v Speaker 1>in my chess knowledge and somehow my character was also

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<v Speaker 1>very much suited for competitions. So this is how I

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<v Speaker 1>started to to get to be involved with chess. And

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<v Speaker 1>of course when you have positive feedback from your parents,

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<v Speaker 1>when you go to a chess tournament with you win

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<v Speaker 1>your game, those are the best fuel to move on

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<v Speaker 1>and to be inspired again and again. And what was

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<v Speaker 1>it about chess your sisters? As you said, we're very engaged,

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<v Speaker 1>But what made it so compelling for you? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>after all, you have to put in such long hours

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<v Speaker 1>to become a champion. I think I just started to

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<v Speaker 1>love the game very much and it gave me a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of pleasure to not only to win the game

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<v Speaker 1>men win against adult men, but also what I enjoyed

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<v Speaker 1>a lot from the very beginning the creativity part of chess,

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<v Speaker 1>which means that to make combinations, to to create some

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<v Speaker 1>unexpected solutions and something very beautiful. And in chess we

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<v Speaker 1>say if you give up some pieces and then suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>unexpectedly win the game, So those kind of solutions are

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<v Speaker 1>liked very much. And also my playing style was very

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<v Speaker 1>much like that that that was very aggressive. I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to win the game as short as possible and give

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<v Speaker 1>checkmate to my opponent. And I really like those creative

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<v Speaker 1>moments and and combinations which I learned at home, and

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<v Speaker 1>then later on I could apply it in tournament chess

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<v Speaker 1>as well. So interesting, now, women and chess don't typically

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<v Speaker 1>go together. But when you were out, you competed against boys.

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<v Speaker 1>You want what sort of obstacles have you had to

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<v Speaker 1>face as a girl or as a woman in chess,

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<v Speaker 1>and how did you deal with those? Obviously, my sisters

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<v Speaker 1>were supporting me a lot, and they had already the

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<v Speaker 1>experience and they were sharing it with me and supporting

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<v Speaker 1>me how to do it differently. Let's say, well, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>when I was a kid, people did not really believe

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<v Speaker 1>that my knowledge is stable, and they said, okay, she's

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<v Speaker 1>just lucky here. Her opponent was sick, her opponent was

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't in good for so they were always excuses, or

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<v Speaker 1>many times there were excuses. And later on I also

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<v Speaker 1>experienced that I had to prove myself much more time

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<v Speaker 1>than as if I would have been a talented boy,

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<v Speaker 1>because this was normal. And then it was very clear

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<v Speaker 1>by age of fifteen sixteen, when I was already a grandmaster,

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<v Speaker 1>that I became the only woman player in those tournaments

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<v Speaker 1>where I started to play those invitational tournaments where let's

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<v Speaker 1>say there were thirteen men adults and I was the

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<v Speaker 1>only girl or or woman. Later on, and I mean

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<v Speaker 1>one of the nicest things they told me already much later,

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<v Speaker 1>when an and world champion was asked what does he

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<v Speaker 1>think about Judith Bulger And then he didn't really understand

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<v Speaker 1>the question and replied that, well, she's one of us.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I worked hard for that that they acknowledged

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<v Speaker 1>my results, and they really treated me like another very

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<v Speaker 1>strong grandmaster. But it meant that I I had to

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<v Speaker 1>have the perseverance for that, to stand up always when

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<v Speaker 1>something went wrong or they beat me, to have that

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<v Speaker 1>fighting spirit, to have that dedication, to have that passion

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<v Speaker 1>for the game. And I think also that my character

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<v Speaker 1>suited very much for competition. It also helped a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>She's one of us. That's high praise coming from a guy,

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<v Speaker 1>especially a world champion. By any chance, was that Gary

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<v Speaker 1>Kasparov who was speaking, He certainly was a world champion,

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<v Speaker 1>a grand master, one of the chess giants that you

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<v Speaker 1>have beaten. He was dismissive of you. I gather uh

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<v Speaker 1>and women players in general when you first came on

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<v Speaker 1>the scene. But what did you think of his comments

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<v Speaker 1>then and how did you help him change his mind? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the to change people's mind is always something difficult,

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<v Speaker 1>but usually results eventually convinced them, and this was the

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<v Speaker 1>case for me also with my events and games with

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<v Speaker 1>Kasparo as when he said those things. For example, in

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<v Speaker 1>eight eight when he was asked after me and my

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<v Speaker 1>sisters we won gold medal for Hungary Hungary in the

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<v Speaker 1>ladies team. Those very few occasions when I played in

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<v Speaker 1>ladies competitions, he was asked from a journalist that what

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<v Speaker 1>does he think, how good can I become? I was

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<v Speaker 1>only twelve years old, and he said, well, he believes

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<v Speaker 1>that absolutely I am going to become a world champion.

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<v Speaker 1>And when the reporter asked him that what do you

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<v Speaker 1>think can you ever play with her? Then he said,

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<v Speaker 1>well I don't think so. I it's almost impossible. And

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<v Speaker 1>what happened was later on, when I was sixteen, I

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<v Speaker 1>played my first game against Kasparov and after that many

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<v Speaker 1>other occasions repeated it and he was beating me quite

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<v Speaker 1>a few times. But then the time came when I

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<v Speaker 1>made some drows, we had a very fighting draw. Also

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<v Speaker 1>I had an opportunity where it was very difficult for him,

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<v Speaker 1>so he was sweating a little bit, almost being scared

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<v Speaker 1>that he can lose the game. And then later on,

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<v Speaker 1>at one point I was also winning against him. So

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<v Speaker 1>it was very clear that little by little I could

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<v Speaker 1>improve my chest and I could also perform and show

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<v Speaker 1>it on the chessboard against him. And this is how

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<v Speaker 1>I gained respect with all the grandmasters. That's simply I

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<v Speaker 1>was playing better. I want again a game against them,

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<v Speaker 1>which meant that they had to experience it on their

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<v Speaker 1>own skin. What it what it is when they lose

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<v Speaker 1>against me? And then they started to change their attitude.

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<v Speaker 1>What was it like that first time when you beat Kasparov?

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<v Speaker 1>It was great? But I have to tell you that

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<v Speaker 1>already before I made in a huge tournament which was

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<v Speaker 1>considered the vimbloodin of chess in Linares a year ago,

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<v Speaker 1>I played two fantastic games against him, and I considered

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<v Speaker 1>those at least as important in my career as the

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<v Speaker 1>one which I wont. Seneca's one hundred Women to hear

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<v Speaker 1>will be back after the short break. Now, as you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>mostly you played against men rather than other women. What

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<v Speaker 1>was your thinking behind that? Well, I'm I feel very

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<v Speaker 1>fortunate that my parents raised me this way, that they

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<v Speaker 1>were always focusing on the objective performance in the sport

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<v Speaker 1>and not limit my limit me and my sisters that

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<v Speaker 1>we can only become masters grandmasters between ladies. Because the

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<v Speaker 1>problem is that when you say that, for example, too

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<v Speaker 1>a little girl, you say, and there are six that

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<v Speaker 1>you can become a great world champion between women, and

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<v Speaker 1>you say the same thing for a boy, that you

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<v Speaker 1>can become the world champion between men. The different thing

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<v Speaker 1>is that it's like in reality as if you would

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<v Speaker 1>say to a girl that you can have a PhD.

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<v Speaker 1>And you inspired the boy that you can be a

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<v Speaker 1>Nobel prize winner. So this is the huge difference. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is why I'm really grateful to my parents that

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<v Speaker 1>they were always believing in me that I should be

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<v Speaker 1>performing as good as possible and be the best I

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<v Speaker 1>can objectively in the sport, not talking the difference between

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<v Speaker 1>women and men chess. And I think this gave me

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<v Speaker 1>a great vision on life, on on in everything, how

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<v Speaker 1>I raise my kids, how I live my life, and

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<v Speaker 1>and and this I'm very very happy for that. This

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<v Speaker 1>is what my parents told me and I for me,

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<v Speaker 1>this was the most natural thing that obviously, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>I look at the sport, not about the gender questions.

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<v Speaker 1>Are your children interested in chef? They were playing when

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<v Speaker 1>they were in kindergarten and in elementary school for second grade,

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<v Speaker 1>but after that they gave up, they were not interested anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>To each his own, as we say, they have to

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<v Speaker 1>follow their own path. Why do you think it is

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<v Speaker 1>that there aren't very many women in chess? What's holding

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<v Speaker 1>women back? There are many reasons. I think one is

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<v Speaker 1>that society is not really supporting that. As let's say,

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<v Speaker 1>if a boy wants to become competitive in chess, there

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<v Speaker 1>are somehow more accepting that attitude from a boy than

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<v Speaker 1>from a girl life. But also generally teachers are not

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<v Speaker 1>supportive so much. Parents may be also not that supportive.

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<v Speaker 1>And actually there are many girls who play. Maybe it's

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<v Speaker 1>even fifty fifty until age ten eleven or so, and

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<v Speaker 1>only after that it becomes a huge dropout for girls.

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<v Speaker 1>And probably also because they are to to be more

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<v Speaker 1>serious about their studies, they get matured earlier, and and

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<v Speaker 1>somehow they don't like this lifestyle and in society is

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<v Speaker 1>not supporting them at all, They are not encouraging them

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<v Speaker 1>that wow, this would be a great profession for you.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think there's some connection between chess and the

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<v Speaker 1>stem field because you know, girls get so interested in

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<v Speaker 1>math and science and then so often along the way

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<v Speaker 1>they drop up. Yeah, it's interesting, why is that? But

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<v Speaker 1>I think there are going to be more and more

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<v Speaker 1>girls in the stem field also, first of all, because

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<v Speaker 1>it can be an interesting way of having family and

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<v Speaker 1>work because you can work from home much easier. I

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<v Speaker 1>think in many of those fields. Yes, hopefully changes coming forward.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that today you are focused on the international

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<v Speaker 1>promotion of the sport um that you've written books. The

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<v Speaker 1>Judith Pulgar Chess Foundation was established several years ago and

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<v Speaker 1>you've got the Chess Festival coming up. Tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>it and what's its mission. Yeah. I established my Chess

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<v Speaker 1>Foundation in two thousand twelve and we are focusing on

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<v Speaker 1>promoting chess and specifically chess in education for kids. And

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<v Speaker 1>we have the Global Chess Festival, which is aiming to

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<v Speaker 1>share the passion for chess with the rest of the world.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have the slogan of Chess connects Us. It's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be in the Hungarian National Gallery with the

0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 1>different conferences on chess on education, also about creativity and

0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 1>innovation and connecting to science and chess. We're also going

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 1>to have some demo workshops how chess and mass connect

0:15:54.760 --> 0:16:00.280
<v Speaker 1>how coding is connecting. Also with my educational program is

0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.040
<v Speaker 1>going to be shown to the big audience, and we're

0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.600
<v Speaker 1>going to be having also online activities apart from the

0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 1>chess tournament for kids and for everybody else for adults generally.

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<v Speaker 1>We have another thread of the festival, which is that

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<v Speaker 1>we have it in Budapest, but we want to inspire

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 1>from every little city, everybody who is a little bit

0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 1>attached to chess. If they have organized an event, whether

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 1>it's a chess fashion show or a chess film is projected,

0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:37.240
<v Speaker 1>or whether it's chess tournament, chess simultaneous exhibition, anything related

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.560
<v Speaker 1>to chess, if they send it to us, we are

0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:44.000
<v Speaker 1>uploading their information also on our website, and we do

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<v Speaker 1>hope that eventually within years we're going to have this

0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:51.760
<v Speaker 1>special day of second Saturday of each October where the

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 1>whole world, in the smallest cities, played chess or have

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 1>chess related activities at the same time. So exciting. It's

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<v Speaker 1>there one book that you've written that you would recommend

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 1>to our listeners. If they wanted to get interested in chess. Uh. Well,

0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 1>I've been writing about my life of more than three

0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 1>decades of of my career with stories and chess games

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:22.760
<v Speaker 1>and puzzles is the Judith paulgar Teaches Chess series. But

0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.399
<v Speaker 1>this is already for for those who who play on

0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.840
<v Speaker 1>a certain level like a club player or so. My

0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.880
<v Speaker 1>other book which is for beginners for kids, it's only

0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 1>in Hungarian, So this is what I can offer for now,

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:45.000
<v Speaker 1>but I have also on the courses on internet. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I regret that we're coming to the end of our conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>but I did want to ask you before we close,

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<v Speaker 1>what makes you optimistic today about women's participation in chess.

0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.200
<v Speaker 1>We're making progress, as you've said, coming a long way

0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.520
<v Speaker 1>from the days when you were a little girl. But

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<v Speaker 1>just how how do you see the future for women

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<v Speaker 1>in chess. Well, obviously it has to improve, but it

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:17.520
<v Speaker 1>did already quite significantly. Nowadays there are more events for

0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.840
<v Speaker 1>ladies and the bigger price funds, which also makes a difference.

0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 1>But still I do hope that there are going to

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:30.160
<v Speaker 1>be more girls and women later who feel that they

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<v Speaker 1>want to be really the best in the sport and

0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:38.160
<v Speaker 1>the best they can be not only between ladies, and

0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 1>this is what I'm working hard, and I like to

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:46.120
<v Speaker 1>motivate the girls, especially youngsters, that they should believe in themselves.

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.719
<v Speaker 1>They should be having high expectations from themselves. But at

0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.040
<v Speaker 1>the same time, I think it's very important that their

0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:59.200
<v Speaker 1>coaches and especially their parents should be having great expectations

0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.440
<v Speaker 1>and support their daughters that they should become the best

0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.600
<v Speaker 1>they can, so don't limit them. That's a wonderful message

0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.720
<v Speaker 1>to close on and a great lesson no matter what

0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.679
<v Speaker 1>the pursuit in which one is engaged. Thank you for

0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:20.160
<v Speaker 1>being the inspiration that you are, for talking with us today,

0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 1>for making this sport come alive, and for being the

0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.640
<v Speaker 1>greatest female chess player of all time. Judith Pulgar, thank

0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:36.320
<v Speaker 1>you so much. Thank you very much. What a treat

0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:40.400
<v Speaker 1>and an education to talk to chess legend Judith Polgar.

0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.639
<v Speaker 1>There are three things I took from that conversation. First,

0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Judith Polgar offers a recipe for success for children. It's

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:56.320
<v Speaker 1>a mix of early encouragement, positive feedback, and using initial

0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.920
<v Speaker 1>winds to build a confidence that leads to more win

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:05.679
<v Speaker 1>and Second, Judith says it's important to challenge girls to

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.080
<v Speaker 1>be the best at whatever they do, not only to

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:13.119
<v Speaker 1>be the best among girls or among boys, but to

0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 1>be the best period. Finally, if we want girls to

0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.399
<v Speaker 1>attain the heights, we need to set their expectations high.

0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Yes you can win a Nobel Prize. Yes you can

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 1>be a chess grandmaster. When girls dream big and they

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:38.560
<v Speaker 1>have support, they can sore. If all this has you

0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:43.920
<v Speaker 1>curious about chess, check out Judith Polgar's Global Chess Festival,

0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:49.879
<v Speaker 1>which starts on October in Budapest. You can participate online.

0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Visit Global Chess Festival dot com and tune in next

0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.000
<v Speaker 1>time to hear about our next featured woman and discuss

0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 1>of her why she's one of Seneca's one hundred Women

0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:09.840
<v Speaker 1>to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear is a

0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.520
<v Speaker 1>collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio,

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:19.440
<v Speaker 1>with support from founding partner PNG. Have a Great Day,